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Thread: Stanley Milner Library Exterior Redesign

  1. #801

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Plain old galvanized corrugated metal can also look great.
    Yes, it reminds of all those cement dirt floor houses in Honduras. Stunning
    Nothing’s much plainer than boring old drywall (gypsum board) but look how ubiquitous it is and embraced by nearly every homeowner.


    Here’s some more of that horrible corrugated steel that it seems you feel should be relegated to the scrap heap:


    https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blo...-5-889x549.jpg


    https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blo...-6-889x501.jpg


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d6/08/12/d...5ce917a86e.jpg



    Like modernist architecture, brass (and shag rugs) is even coming back into fashion:



    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/4b/d0/6a/4...2c9350a8ca.jpg

    Ridge or standing seam:


    https://www.aurubis.com/binaries/con...rdic-royal.jpg
    Last edited by KC; 25-07-2018 at 11:30 AM.

  2. #802

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    Did they botch the installation of the steel cladding? If you compare the webcam view from July 23 to July 25 it appears they went from a bunch of installed steel on the roof back to.. zero.

    https://www.epl.ca/milner-live-cam/

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    Going that way for lunch, will grab some shots.
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  5. #805

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    Drab gray is so “In” these days. Plus it ages well.


  6. #806

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    Oh dear, that's not looking very promising.

  7. #807

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Just remember people, we saved some money and that’s what matters!
    Bump

  8. #808

  9. #809

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    I'm not so worried about the finishings, more the shape. I'm afraid it's going to become known as "the boat".

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    I'm looking forward to seeing the cladding on the front. Personally I don't really care if the back looks a bit utilitarian. The front is the important piece and I can't wait to see how they use traditionally straight material to achieve those swoops and angles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    I'm not so worried about the finishings, more the shape. I'm afraid it's going to become known as "the boat".
    not a fear that i share...

    boats, by design, almost always have an elegance that is lacking here, at least on the outside.

    the library's interior spaces may - i'm hopefull still - turn out to be quite striking but the last thing its exterior - for which i don't have much hope left - is going to be confused with is nautically elegant.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  12. #812

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    It may look really cool when completed.

    However, what I’ve repeatedly noted is that the architecture sketches always seem to show something quite interesting. From there the builders can do one of two things:

    1) they could create something that exceeds the conceptual drawing, or

    2) they can create something that is quite underwhelming compared to the original concept

    Here in Edmonton (and other places) far too often the product repeatedly gets ‘toned down’ from the features and characteristics in the drawings that basically inspired the desision makers to choose that design in the first place.



    Note the roof and all the glass in this original sketch up:


    https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1..._300/image.jpg

    Well distributed light in the interior in the original sketch up:

    http://www.teeplearch.com/wp-content...interior_1.jpg
    Reducing the skylights to just a few concentrated openings creates an undesirable “spotlight” effect. Though I guess the northerly angle will somewhat prevent that during most of the year.



    Then the amazing roof was reduced to a couple skylights:


    https://d4804za1f1gw.cloudfront.net/...iew-winter.jpg
    Last edited by KC; 26-07-2018 at 10:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing the cladding on the front. Personally I don't really care if the back looks a bit utilitarian. The front is the important piece and I can't wait to see how they use traditionally straight material to achieve those swoops and angles.
    good architecture extends to all sides, particuarly when all sides front streets and plaza spaces. without that you're reducing architecture to being the modern incarnation of western storefronts/facadism. imagine if city hall had only paid attention to the front...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  14. #814

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    It may look really cool when completed.

    However, what I’ve repeatedly noted is that the architecture sketches always seem to show something quite interesting. From there the builders can do one of two things:

    1) they could create something that exceeds the conceptual drawing, or

    2) they can create something that is quite underwhelming compared to the original concept

    Here in Edmonton (and other places) far too often the product repeatedly gets ‘toned down’ from the features and characteristics in the drawings that basically inspired the desision makers to choose that design in the first place.



    Note the roof and the glass in this original sketch up:


    https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1..._300/image.jpg
    Are you sure that's the chosen design? Cause I don't think that's what we're getting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    It may look really cool when completed.

    However, what I’ve repeatedly noted is that the architecture sketches always seem to show something quite interesting. From there the builders can do one of two things:

    1) they could create something that exceeds the conceptual drawing, or

    2) they can create something that is quite underwhelming compared to the original concept

    Here in Edmonton (and other places) far too often the product repeatedly gets ‘toned down’ from the features and characteristics in the drawings that basically inspired the desision makers to choose that design in the first place.



    Note the roof and the glass in this original sketch up:


    https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1..._300/image.jpg
    except even that's not the design that was "chosen in the first place" (never mind that it's also not the final design that's being built).

    this was what was chosen (sorry about the image size):





    both images are from the city's website ( http://transformingedmonton.ca/downt...ectural-style/ ).
    Last edited by kcantor; 26-07-2018 at 09:57 AM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  16. #816

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    Yeah in my mind, that was far superior to the squared off version with all the skylights.

    Horizontal cladding of alternating finishes with short but wide windows would have worked and the interior lighting from short wide windows is far preferable to tall thin or small square openings.
    Last edited by KC; 26-07-2018 at 10:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing the cladding on the front. Personally I don't really care if the back looks a bit utilitarian. The front is the important piece and I can't wait to see how they use traditionally straight material to achieve those swoops and angles.
    good architecture extends to all sides, particuarly when all sides front streets and plaza spaces. without that you're reducing architecture to being the modern incarnation of western storefronts/facadism. imagine if city hall had only paid attention to the front...
    Fair point. I guess I shouldn't have said I don't care what the back looks like. It's really more like I'll consider the back once I see the front and street-level finished, because in my experience a partially finished project always looks lacklustre to a degree and is easier to criticize.

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    Except that the back is also really a "front" as it also overlooks a plaza, and is the view that people see approaching City Hall from Jasper Avenue and up 100th Street as well as guests staying at the Westin. There is no back alley out of sight vistas of this building - every side is prominent. That why design is critical - and this design by Teeple has missed the mark,

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    Still, the entire podium still has to be done. This piece might not look quite so out of place in context.

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    I know that this renovation is much more than just the architectural flavour, but when it comes to looks, I honestly think I would prefer the silent and utilitarian look the library had before.

  21. #821

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I know that this renovation is much more than just the architectural flavour, but when it comes to looks, I honestly think I would prefer the silent and utilitarian look the library had before.
    I never thought I would say this but I agree. At this stage the library looks embarrassing. Hopefully that will change.

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    I'm starting to realise this building is going to be just as ugly as I feared.... so who do we go about blaming for this?

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    I never had high hopes from day one of this project and sadly my fears have been realized. It may even be worse than expected.

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    Prove us wrong library, we all hope you do. :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    I'm starting to realise this building is going to be just as ugly as I feared.... so who do we go about blaming for this?
    Council. And EDC for not having the balls to be forceful to push for a better design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Prove us wrong library, we all hope you do. :/
    Too late now - the lipstick is on the pig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    There is nothing at all wrong with the original modernist design.
    I concur. The revamp seems like an attempt to make the Milner "groove" with the art gallery and maybe some of the other structures surrounding Churchill. But I don't really see the point of that. The library is what it is, reflective of the era in which it was built. If anything, it's the later buildings that should bow to the older ones(which is not to say they have to copy the styles directly).

    And then there is this quote...

    "There are so many public libraries in the world that are stunning, that make a statement, and ours looks like we don’t really think highly of it.”

    So what exactly are we saying, in effect, to the people who designed and built the Milner back in '67, not to mention the officials who approved the design? "Wow, you guys sure didn't care about that library, did you?" I suspect they would disagree with that insinuation.
    we screwed with the original design with that screwy molson plaza, we screwed with the original design when we took out the landscape beds that are integral to brutalist architecture and replaced them with rocks in mortar meant to say “don’t come here” and we really screwed with it with the original addition on the north side. you might say what we’re doing with it now maintains a well established and regretful tradition.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  28. #828

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    My lay anecdotal experience is that with some unconventional designs it can be nearly impossible to tell what the final product will look like. Moreover it may take a few years to grow to like unconventional designs. (Happens all the time with other products like clothing, furnishings, vehicles, etc.).

    Moreover the details can make a huge difference between something that is 95% done and 100% done. Then there’s the angle of view. Most buildings are ultimately judged by preppie on the street and from a street perspective and not 15-20 floors up. However, expect a photo or two from a less common view to dominate media.


    Note the metal cladding on the Commonwealth Community Recreation Centre pictured in this article:
    Thanks to one unorthodox architect, Edmonton is undergoing a design revolution - The Globe and Mail

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ticle27392118/
    Last edited by KC; 29-07-2018 at 04:43 PM.

  29. #829

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    My lay anecdotal experience is that with some unconventional designs it can be nearly impossible to tell what the final product will look like. Moreover it may take a few years to grow to like unconventional designs. (Happens all the time with other products like clothing, furnishings, vehicles, etc.).

    Moreover the details can make a huge difference between something that is 95% done and 100% done. Then there’s the angle of view. Most buildings are ultimately judged by preppie on the street and from a street perspective and not 15-20 floors up. However, expect a photo or two from a less common view to dominate media.


    Note the metal cladding on the Commonwealth Community Recreation Centre pictured in this article:
    Thanks to one unorthodox architect, Edmonton is undergoing a design revolution - The Globe and Mail

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ticle27392118/
    I genuinely do think this is fair. It’s odd how much a little detail can matter. I remember thinking Edmonton Tower looked awful for a long time, but suddenly as soon as they added the signage on the building I felt really different about it.

    I love the design of Commonwealth. I think it might look fine, I just still think a flat panel VS strips would look better. However, the strips might do cool tricks with perspective once they’re visible on the wonky front portion.

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    With EPL branches like Jasper Place and Mill Woods, I hope that the Downtown Branch can end up something similar. I think the inside will be impressive.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  31. #831

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    Yes, unfortunately most people will never see the inside.

  32. #832

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    With EPL branches like Jasper Place and Mill Woods, I hope that the Downtown Branch can end up something similar. I think the inside will be impressive.
    Haven't seen the Mill Woods branch, but the JP branch is poor, IMHO. Really dislike the design.

  33. #833

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    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    With EPL branches like Jasper Place and Mill Woods, I hope that the Downtown Branch can end up something similar. I think the inside will be impressive.
    Haven't seen the Mill Woods branch, but the JP branch is poor, IMHO. Really dislike the design.
    https://www.google.ca/search?q=millw...Svs4ZW8L-VqkM:

    It's really nice in person! It's small though.

  34. #834

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    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    With EPL branches like Jasper Place and Mill Woods, I hope that the Downtown Branch can end up something similar. I think the inside will be impressive.
    Haven't seen the Mill Woods branch, but the JP branch is poor, IMHO. Really dislike the design.
    Its a beautiful Library inside and out. Unfortunately its best served by the MWTC terminal right where it is, but which will be moving soon to accommodate being closer to where the LRT terminus is. So that the Library entrance of this splendid bit of architecture will now be situated on the wrong side and opening to the wrong side.

    But in the meantime it works fabulously with the present bus terminal.

    'Edmonton planning..
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    Anyone got any pics? I moved out of the core and haven't seen any updates in the past couple months. The silence concerns me. lol
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  36. #836

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    Isn't there a live cam or something?

  37. #837
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    ... gobsmacked

  38. #838

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Anyone got any pics? I moved out of the core and haven't seen any updates in the past couple months. The silence concerns me. lol
    It's still ugly.

  39. #839

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    With EPL branches like Jasper Place and Mill Woods, I hope that the Downtown Branch can end up something similar. I think the inside will be impressive.
    Yeah hopefully a lot of the interior will look like this:


    The more of this, the more impressive it will be.

  40. #840
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    Well I'm hopeful to see a decent amount of books there, although I admit that the library that really impresses me is the Rutherford Library on the UofA campus.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    ^ Maybe its changed but is the Rutherford libaray the one with the tight stair case? I was in it once years ago. I felt like I was in ship descending down a gangplank.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  42. #842

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    I don’t know how anyone doesn’t just find the uAlberta libraries to be depressing hellscapes. They make me want to die.

  43. #843
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    Really?

    Love the atrium between Cameron and Rutherford.

    Between the two libraries though, even as an undergrad - preferred Rutherford.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    great zoom quality there

  45. #845

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seandroid View Post
    I don’t know how anyone doesn’t just find the uAlberta libraries to be depressing hellscapes. They make me want to die.
    I liked studying in them - though mostly just ended up hanging out and socializing (study 1/2 hr then go sit in Hub for an hour, then repeat.)



    Cameron was rather bland and bleak though.
    Last edited by KC; 13-09-2018 at 03:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Really?

    Love the atrium between Cameron and Rutherford.

    Between the two libraries though, even as an undergrad - preferred Rutherford.
    Atrium between Cameron and Rutherford?

    Do you mean between North Rutherford and South Rutherford?

  47. #847

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    The rabbit-warren area on the top floor of Rutherford South with the half-floor where the old bound periodicals was interesting...
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  48. #848

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    Deleted duplicate text
    Last edited by KC; 14-09-2018 at 07:01 AM.

  49. #849

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The rabbit-warren area on the top floor of Rutherford South with the half-floor where the old bound periodicals was interesting...
    Yes, one of those odd characteristics that people remember - often fondly. Not much memorable about a standardized box.






    Magical Libraries That Look Like They're From Harry Potter | Travel + Leisure

    https://www.travelandleisure.com/att...ry-look-alikes




    .
    Last edited by KC; 13-09-2018 at 05:56 PM.

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    Well the part that impresses me about Rutherford is the massive amount of books. Some parts aren't all modern and sexy for alternative programming and activities, plain and simple it is a library. As for fancier looking libraries the MacEwan library or the Legislature library definitely look very nice. I'm funny that way though, I think a library looks good if there are books as far as the eye can see. Oh yeah, the Bruce Peel special collections in the Rutherford basement is really cool too.

  51. #851

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well the part that impresses me about Rutherford is the massive amount of books. Some parts aren't all modern and sexy for alternative programming and activities, plain and simple it is a library. As for fancier looking libraries the MacEwan library or the Legislature library definitely look very nice. I'm funny that way though, I think a library looks good if there are books as far as the eye can see. Oh yeah, the Bruce Peel special collections in the Rutherford basement is really cool too.
    Bruce Peel - I haven’t seen that. In the basement? All in flood proof containers I presume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Atrium between Cameron and Rutherford?

    Do you mean between North Rutherford and South Rutherford?
    Showing my age. In the day, Rutherford South (is that what it's called?) IIRC was called Cameron Library. Googling - yes, it's called Rutherford South.

    Dang ...
    ... gobsmacked

  53. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Atrium between Cameron and Rutherford?

    Do you mean between North Rutherford and South Rutherford?
    Showing my age. In the day, Rutherford South (is that what it's called?) IIRC was called Cameron Library. Googling - yes, it's called Rutherford South.

    Dang ...
    You might be misremembering, unless they did some weird name shuffling for some reason. Cameron library is the science library in between Convocation Hall and CAB

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    ^Yeah, what we know now as "Rutherford South" was just the Rutherford Library when it was first built. Rutherford North was an expansion built in the '70s.

    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutherford_Library
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  55. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well the part that impresses me about Rutherford is the massive amount of books. Some parts aren't all modern and sexy for alternative programming and activities, plain and simple it is a library. As for fancier looking libraries the MacEwan library or the Legislature library definitely look very nice. I'm funny that way though, I think a library looks good if there are books as far as the eye can see. Oh yeah, the Bruce Peel special collections in the Rutherford basement is really cool too.
    Bruce Peel - I haven’t seen that. In the basement? All in flood proof containers I presume.
    Yup Bruce Peel has some extremely rare manuscripts, etc...
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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