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Thread: What The B*ke Is Going On?

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    Default What The B*ke Is Going On?

    What The B*ke Is Going On?
    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...g/cycling.aspx

    The City is changing the way we engage citizens in bike route decisions. Citizens will have more say in how and where to build bike routes. It'll be easier for people to attend events or participate online, and we will be looking for input earlier in our decision-making processes.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Complaints lead Edmonton bicycle network planners back to the drawing board

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/insight/Complaints+lead+Edmonton+bicycle+network+planners+ back/9848303/story.html

    EDMONTON - Edmonton’s nearly 500-kilometre bicycle network is a green idea that has made large numbers of people see red.

    The scheme approved in 2009 envisioned a web of paths, lanes and signed routes being developed over decades to encourage two-wheeled transportation across the city.

    But officials have put the brakes on this environmentally friendly future to seek more public input after riding into a wall of anger with last year’s construction plans.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    The jackasses of this fine city who drive cars must of cried about the fact they had to share the road with us bikers. It really pisses me off. Go to Victoria and see how they have their bike lanes, that's how we need to have it cars be dammed!

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    ^ I am all for bike transportation but IMO the way city admin has been going about it is a bit halfassed.


    we need dedicated bike lanes on major thoroughfares not sloppily painted lanes on random raods that nobody uses or can see in the winter. also ive seen places where there are bike lanes painted on the road right beside a multi use path! wtf?
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    The jackasses of this fine city that ride bikes should have consideration of the 99% of the population that do not. Streets were built for cars so get used to it.

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    The so called 99% can go frack themselves and there's more then 1% of bikers out here so go learn math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnoblade View Post
    The so called 99% can go frack themselves and there's more then 1% of bikers out here so go learn math.
    I have to disagree with you on this one. I have seen MORE AND MORE cyclists completely ignore the rules. Ride thru red lights, go wherever it suits their needs. I am aware that vehicles do this as well but if you think a cyclist stands a snowballs chance in hell against a 2200 lb vehicle just because they can't follow the rules then all my prayers are with you.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    Like in the photo I like seperation between car and bike, not mixing. Seperate bike trails and paths are the best. Must have the posts so I know it's there or else it's just more tickets and a pain in the butte seeing where the bike lanes are.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 17-05-2014 at 12:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnoblade View Post
    The so called 99% can go frack themselves and there's more then 1% of bikers out here so go learn math.
    I have to disagree with you on this one. I have seen MORE AND MORE cyclists completely ignore the rules. Ride thru red lights, go wherever it suits their needs. I am aware that vehicles do this as well but if you think a cyclist stands a snowballs chance in hell against a 2200 lb vehicle just because they can't follow the rules then all my prayers are with you.
    I am one of those bikers who actually follow the rules of the road. The ones ruining it for us are those bloody bike couriers
    Last edited by Magnoblade; 17-05-2014 at 12:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnoblade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnoblade View Post
    The so called 99% can go frack themselves and there's more then 1% of bikers out here so go learn math.
    I have to disagree with you on this one. I have seen MORE AND MORE cyclists completely ignore the rules. Ride thru red lights, go wherever it suits their needs. I am aware that vehicles do this as well but if you think a cyclist stands a snowballs chance in hell against a 2200 lb vehicle just because they can't follow the rules then all my prayers are with you.
    I am one of those bikers who actual follow the rules of the road. The ones ruining it for us are those bloody bike couriers

    Well ... in that case your get a gold star and move to the front of the class Now let's round up these couriers and hang them by their cajones.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    Good.. They need to talk to people more before making decisions.. i love biking and i like driving..they really need to figure it out. take for example 95th ave. it was painted last freeken year.. it destroyed a 4 lane road and turned it into a 2.5 lane. with a bike lane on either side. now you cant drive down it.. and you cant bike down it due to no paint on the road ( literally painted last year) if the city had better communication with people they would realize that they could have built a bike only arterial road down 96 ave or 94/93 ave.. all the way to the river valley.. without destroying a minor arterial road in the process.

    how wide does a bike arterial road need to be? 3 meters ? sure sounds like something they could build in many parts of the city without adding to our arterial roads. its not like bikes can go 40km/h anyway why not have these thoroughfares in neighborhoods. and hey just like those European cities they can cross parks and walk able spaces. and also if we do that they are separated from traffic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Like in the photo I like seperation between car and bike, not mixing. Seperate bike trails and paths are the best. Must have the posts so I know it's there or else it's just more tickets and a pain in the butte seeing where the bike lanes are.
    When I was in Berlin, nobody rode on the street. Those are for cars. They rode on the bike lane which was up on the curb. And pedestrians walked on pedestrian lanes.

    Car>Bike>Person when in comes to collisions, so it makes sense that they are properly separated.

    Mixing bicycles and cars will just end with frustration, casualties, and increased insurance costs.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    In the case of 95 ave between 170-189 street,there is already a sidewalk on that stretch. Why not make the sidewalk a SHARED PATHWAY as in other areas of the city, and get the cyclists in a safer area to ride ? There.... I just saved the city $11 million dollars. Shared pathways signage has got to be cheaper than repainting lines in the fall and repainting the next Spring.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    In the case of 95 ave between 170-189 street,there is already a sidewalk on that stretch. Why not make the sidewalk a SHARED PATHWAY as in other areas of the city, and get the cyclists in a safer area to ride ? There.... I just saved the city $11 million dollars. Shared pathways signage has got to be cheaper than repainting lines in the fall and repainting the next Spring.
    Yep and between 170th and 156 its wide enouf in the sidewalk area/ car front drive area to build a multi use lane as well.. really the only point where its justifiable to build the bike lane is between 156 and 149.. and hey guess what 96 ave is a strait through right there..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Himser View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    In the case of 95 ave between 170-189 street,there is already a sidewalk on that stretch. Why not make the sidewalk a SHARED PATHWAY as in other areas of the city, and get the cyclists in a safer area to ride ? There.... I just saved the city $11 million dollars. Shared pathways signage has got to be cheaper than repainting lines in the fall and repainting the next Spring.
    Yep and between 170th and 156 its wide enough in the sidewalk area/ car front drive area to build a multi use lane as well.. really the only point where its justifiable to build the bike lane is between 156 and 149.. and hey guess what 96 ave is a strait through right there..

    It makes you wonder if these tall foreheads even go out and do a site survey on these areas before they make a decision.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    Obviously it's cheaper to paint bike lanes on a road than to build an actual separate lane. What they have setup along River Valley Road or the north side of 104 Ave through MacEwan is exactly what's needed.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ I am all for bike transportation but IMO the way city admin has been going about it is a bit halfassed.


    we need dedicated bike lanes on major thoroughfares not sloppily painted lanes on random raods that nobody uses or can see in the winter. also ive seen places where there are bike lanes painted on the road right beside a multi use path! wtf?
    Not to mention some of the lanes that are essentially right next to parked vehicles.

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    I heard that 83 Ave will get a bike lane from Mill Creek to 112 st. It makes sense, since there's no parking on the North side of the road, allowing a safe place to ride. One of the proposals is for a dedicated (blocked off) lane, which would result in one-way traffic Eastbound. That makes sense, since it's already one-way after 105 st. Allows the bikes a safe place to ride instead of going down Whyte.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^Agreed. This is mostly supported by the communities as well. When ever I bike in the area going east-west I use 83 ave because it takes me all the way to the Ravine and into Bonnie Doon. Minor adjustments could easily take many cyclists from 112st to 83st. That sounds like a no-brainer to a lot of people. Enhance the 104st route, create the 76ave route and you have a massively effective, well connected, and well used network on the south side. Whyte ave is dense with cyclists from April to October, the bike corrals (when they install them late in the year and remove them too soon) are usually full, and many of the poles, parking meters, and bike racks are occupied by a locked-up bike. These folks, and the hundreds of those scared to hit the road, will make good use of the system if it is maintained, cleared of snow, and separate from traffic.

    BTW, cyclists and cars can and do mingle well. Cars just need to not drive 60km/hr. I have been to Asia many times and they can do it well all year (northern China is pretty close to what we or maybe Calgary gets in weather) with getting from A to B with ease, efficiency, and safely.
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    ^ There are places where mixing cars and cyclists works (like Ada boulevard), but usually both cyclists and drivers are better off when they each have their own space, so the cars can do 50-60 km/h and the cyclists can do 20-30 km/h without getting in each others way.

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    Millwoods Road and 95th Avenue are examples of what NOT to do with bike lanes, 106th Street seems reasonably designed. But the most onerous problem was the city forcing bike lanes with very little consultation and ignoring any feedback the residents of the area had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    ^Agreed. This is mostly supported by the communities as well. When ever I bike in the area going east-west I use 83 ave because it takes me all the way to the Ravine and into Bonnie Doon. Minor adjustments could easily take many cyclists from 112st to 83st. That sounds like a no-brainer to a lot of people. Enhance the 104st route, create the 76ave route and you have a massively effective, well connected, and well used network on the south side. Whyte ave is dense with cyclists from April to October, the bike corrals (when they install them late in the year and remove them too soon) are usually full, and many of the poles, parking meters, and bike racks are occupied by a locked-up bike. These folks, and the hundreds of those scared to hit the road, will make good use of the system if it is maintained, cleared of snow, and separate from traffic.

    BTW, cyclists and cars can and do mingle well. Cars just need to not drive 60km/hr. I have been to Asia many times and they can do it well all year (northern China is pretty close to what we or maybe Calgary gets in weather) with getting from A to B with ease, efficiency, and safely.
    My wife is from Asia and I've been there often and the traffic is pure mayhem with everyone honking their horns at ALL times driving me to the edge. If you think this is the way Edmonton should go, you're dead wrong.

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    Indeed, but in Shanghai they generally are 'curtesy' honks rather than GTFOFTW hanks.
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    ^Thank you, Ian. Honking is not bad, it is a method to let those around you you're coming, passing, going. It takes a little getting used to - a month? I found. I was merely pointing out that traffic and bikes can get along well if we do not expect cars to drive very fast on busy roads, but I digress.

    At the moment I believe a pressing issue for the city's departments are east-west routes through Strathcona and Downtown. The issue is getting the university to Mill Creek. Many of the north-south routes have been implemented or will be this year/next. For instance an 83 ave route will need less stop signs, pedestrian bulbs, snow removal, good drainage, smooth surfaces, and a practical connection to both the Mill Creek trails and the bridge to the other side. This isn't no mere painted line.

    It will be tough to implement for some, but the rewards will greatly transform our more dense and walkable neighbourhoods.
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    ^ Stop signs suck, snow removal is essential and smoother roads are nice, but pedestrian bulbs? Those horrible things have no place on a bike route that is shared with cars, even if it is only local traffic. I don't appreciate being forced to compete with cars for road space at intersections when I am on my bike, and I don't like cyclists being forced out of their lane and in front of me when I am driving. Bike and cars accelerate differently and travel at different speeds. Bicycle infrastructure needs to allow both to do their thing with a minimum of conflicts.

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    ^The bulbs being for the opposite side of the bike lane, where parked cars might be, to allow better sight lines for everyone. Merely a suggestion to improve safety for pedestrians in the area as well, to slow down cut-through traffic that might increase as roads are implemented into one-ways.
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    ^Done properly (on the downstream sides of the intersection, ahead of a parking area and no more than 2 m out) that could work. I just haven't seen many done that way. Too often they are on the upstream side and/or substantially wider than the parking lanes.

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    The consultation being done right now will hopefully 'pave' the way for dedicated, separated east-west bike lanes for 83 Avenue in Strathcona and 102 Avenue in Oliver.

    To me this is a much better use of funding than creating a sharrow in a neighbourhood somewhere that many people object to.
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    I definitely want to get involved in the 83 Ave consultation. As a non-biker (a couple of times a year doesn't count), and a resident of the proposed path, I'd really like my voice to be heard.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    ^http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...g/cycling.aspx

    Online feedback deadline is May 29.
    Last edited by GreenSPACE; 21-05-2014 at 02:13 PM.
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    What the City is supposedly using as a part of their tool kit:

    http://nacto.org/
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    This may not be the right thread for this item but it's interesting...

    Are 'bike whiskers' the future of cycle safety?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/activ...le-safety.html

    it's on something called the VibraSee

  34. #34

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    ^Lol wow what a joke. I'm sorry but how in the blue hell is 4 lil tubes that light up going to deter anyone from hitting you? And those things look so bloody tacky.

  35. #35

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    Went to the first workshop for the Old Strathcona and area bike routes, and it was interesting to say the least. I had a pretty energetic young engineer who actually rode a bike most of the time, and so did his colleagues. he mentioned that over the next few days they (the engineers from the firms being consulted on) will bike the four routes to get an idea personally. There were some interesting folks on both sides of the spectrum, most were cyclists and rode to the Butterdome for the meeting - I think I was the only person without a helmet and whipped out a cigarette after the meet - but most people were pragmatic, level-headed, and local residents in their mid-30's to 60's. I was a rarity. The City looked like either they'll get this completely right... or really really screw it up. Info here with survey for those of you who could not attend or are interested:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...g/cycling.aspx
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    ^Thanks for the update.
    www.decl.org

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    Whose idea was it to add bike lanes to streets that have service roads?

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    I don't follow. Like a "non-arterial"? Bike lanes on service roads can actually be dangerous due to visibility, continuity of the route, and usually doesn't get people to where they want to be. If, however, you mean service roads adjacent to arterials then my comment stands; though, do elaborate for more clarity.
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    I really hope they put it down 83 Ave. It makes the most sense there, as they already have it as a one-way Eastbound for most of the proposed route. The North side has no parking, so there wouldn't be any issues with parking being removed, and there are already tons of cyclists that use it (I always see them going past my place). I'm bummed I couldn't make it out to the meeting.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    It seems most cyclists already use 83rd - it's my preferred route as well - and everytime I use it there is at least one or two cyclists off peak hours I can see every block or two. We lambasted the engineer we were with not to ignore connections into Mill Creek, to the LRT at both University stations, the University itself, and the Mill Creek Bridge at Whyte Ave. The main conversation in the room was for physically separated bike tracks on the road, dedicated cycle infraatructure at stop lights at 99st, 103 and 104 streets, 109st, and 112 st. We recalled many examples from Montreal and other cities most of my table had been to. When he mentioned Whyte ave, I gave them a hypothetical story about drunks, buses and other traffic, and taxis being in the way. Looks like they were coaxing the room to choose 83rd ave as well, but I am okay with that for it makes the most sense, and already has infrastructure that can be easily converted.

    Try making it to a downtown on, Gord, the process of the workshop they had this time around is an interesting experience.
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    ^ 83rd works well as it is. A counterflow bike lane might be useful, but 84 Av serves that purpose as well. The thing that would make the biggest difference for many would be a commitment to clear the route to pavement in a reasonable time frame after every snowfall, and to minimize the use of sand and salt in the area (bare pavement > packed snow >>> brown sludge).

    The connection to the U of A is already pretty much established - head north on 105, 106 or 107 St to the Saskatchewan drive trail, head west to 109 St, cross 109 St, follow the alley and trail parallel to 109 St, then continue on the Saskatchewan drive trail. If you want to be further south on campus, peel off onto 88, 89 or 90 Av after crossing 109 St.
    Last edited by Titanium48; 18-06-2014 at 01:17 PM.

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    I'd love to make it to a downtown one, but I'm busy tonight, and tomorrow. It's too bad they put these so close together. It's also funny because I rarely have things going on, but I'm busy three nights in a row; the only nights they have these workshops! Argh.

    I sent an email off to them, so at least I provided some feedback.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ The connection to the U of A is already pretty much established - head north on 105, 106 or 107 St to the Saskatchewan drive trail, head west to 109 St, cross 109 St, follow the alley and trail parallel to 109 St, then continue on the Saskatchewan drive trail. If you want to be further south on campus, peel off onto 88, 89 or 90 Av after crossing 109 St.
    That multi-use trail along Saskatchewan drive isn't the best bike commuter route. Too many other uses along that trail.

    Plus you're still having to go north several blocks then south again vs a straight east/west route they're discussing.

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    ^ Most of U of A campus is north of 87 Av, so there is no doubling back south after crossing 109 St at the top of the hill unless you are going to the hospital. I've always found it to be much more convenient to cross 109 St north of 87 Av and not have to deal with the automobile traffic and all-way stops in Garneau. I agree that the Saskatchewan drive trail could use some widening to better accommodate the variety of users, and a multi-use trail on the south side of the road between 107 and 109 St would help too.

  46. #46

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    ^That's all fine if your are going to the university, but the idea is also to serve employment and shopping, and residential along Whyte too. The idea is to most likely put the route down 84th or 83rd, and to re-engineer crossings, intersection controls, and one-ways/parking to make it very efficient, convenient, and cost-beneficial. The stop signs in Garneau would be changed to be more efficient with preference to bikes (a traffic calming measure), to get rid or introduce/continue already existing one-ways, and in the future to improve upon existing north-south bike routes: 97th, 104th, 106th, 109th and 111th(?) streets. There was a large discussion amoung many that the Sask. Drive multi-use trail is too narrow, and needs better intersection crossings, but the argument was it was too far north to serve Whyte traffic (shopper would have to bike south on the many roads to get to a bike rack or store/resto/work). 83rd already has traffic controlled lights at 99st, 103 and 104st, 109st, and 112 st. It also has the easiest connection to both Mill Creek Ravine, the Whyte ave bridge, Health Sciences LRT, and adjacent to Whyte ave's commercial strip. Another biggie was area-specific signage (1.2 km/ 5 min by bike to Mill Creek, for ex) to direct traffic as well as within Mill Creek for "next left - 83rd ave Bike Lane to Old Strathcona/University". This I believe is the right way for the city to go. If someone is crossing from the east-side of Mill Creek, the bridge at Whyte is the most level (at grade) at smoothest crossing to the west. Considerations we all discussed at the workshop. Lots of discussion and mind-melding to continue in the coming days/months/years (project is 2014-2018?).
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    A New Bike Lane That Could Save Lives and Make Cycling More Popular
    http://www.wired.com/2014/06/a-new-b...nd-save-lives/

  48. #48

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    ^
    Nice. It looks like a good solution. I don't know if there's room for it, but such a setup might have saved the cyclist hit and killed by a garbage truck on a turn by the General Hospital on 100th avenue a while back.

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    I don't know if there's a lot of places in Edmonton where that could work. Like U says, it need quite a lot of room. I can't think of many locations where there's an existing 6 lane road including 2 lanes of parking that can become one through and one parking lane each way, plus bike lanes and a left turn lane.

    Some elements, though, could be adapted separately, or even taking just one corner of that plan and using it.

    Every parking-protected cycle track should have big sidewalk extensions like that at intersections to
    -allow pedestrians waiting to cross the street to wait on the street side of the cycle track,
    -Daylight the intersection and not allow parked vehicles to block visibility between the cycle track and the street,
    - force drivers to take sharper right turns that make them cross the cycle track at roughly a right angle so they can see oncoming cyclists, and don't just squeeze over the cyclist as apparently happened on 100ave.

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    ^Went to the workshop on Thursday evening at the Boyle Street Plaza.

    The meeting consisted of about 30 avid cyclists, one person who self-identified as a motorist, about 20 City staff and consultants, and myself (not sure where I fit).

    Regardless of people's positions on bike lanes, judging from the comments at my table, there was a high degree of frustration with the process.

    The workshop begins with a presentation from a Seattle based consultant (Brian?) who has a slide show with photos of bike lanes in other cities (Seattle, Victoria, Montreal). Is it really necessary to waste time and money on out of town consultants to show photos that can easily be found through a simple google search?

    Then there was a bizarre wheel placed on each table that we had to consider evaluation criteria for bike lanes. It was only in the last 15 minutes that we even began to consider possible bike routes but we were to discuss them only at a concept level (no details provided).

    Some of the proposed routes are completely lacking in realism (103 Avenue with no way to cross the Groat Road ravine), or did not match facts on the ground (105 Avenue going straight into the Epcor parkade east of 101 Street). Meanwhile, practical alternatives like linking the multi-use trail that runs through Rail Town with the proposed 105 Avenue bike lane were neither proposed or discussed.

  51. #51

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    Yup, same as Old Scona route, concept phase, local discussions. The speakers at the beginning were useless and a waste of time.
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  52. #52

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    When i was in kelowna for the weekend i saw what they were using for a bike lane so why don't we use this?

    DSCF1392 by darkmagnoblade, on Flickr

  53. #53

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    We already do.

    Check 76 ave between 114 and 109 st.

  54. #54

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    ^I get that we have one. Im saying it need to be expanded to all bike lanes /routes new and old.

  55. #55

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    ^ And that's what they are doing. Expanding that green paint to every where. They started doing this last year.... and by spring this year, it already needed to be fully repainted due to snow clearing scraping the paint off...

  56. #56

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    Im pretty sure kelowna gets snow just like we do it doesnt look like they're having issues.

  57. #57
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  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnoblade View Post
    Im pretty sure kelowna gets snow just like we do it doesnt look like they're having issues.
    Maybe they are using high quality paint, or they don't need to clear the roads anywhere near as frequently as we do.

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  60. #60

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    Scott McKeen's thoughts on the bike lane consultation:

    http://www.scottmckeen.ca/downtown_bike_lanes
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  61. #61

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    The Cities That Spend The Most On Bike Lanes Later Reap The Most Reward:

    "In cities dominated by cars, a small increase in cycling tends to lead to more biking injuries and deaths, making other people more afraid to ride. The way to overcome that problem, the researchers found, is to make a bigger commitment to better bike lanes."

    http://www.fastcoexist.com/3034354/t...ampaign=buffer
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  62. #62

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    Because cities invest in bike lanes and the province reaps the benefits in terms of lower health care costs long-term, why shouldn't AHS invest in active transportation projects?
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  63. #63

  64. #64
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    I know this was posted elsewhere, but this seems like a more suitable thread for this topic. The 95th Avenue bike lanes didn't make sense you took a 4 lane two way road with 2 service roads into a 2 lane road with bike lanes and 2 service roads, a better solution would be to use one of the service roads.

    Council votes to take out 95th Avenue bike lane
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...882/story.html

  65. #65
    highlander
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    That does make sense, but if the access road transitions aren't well done the access road version could be significantly more dangerous than the on-street version. Access roads in Edmonton seem to be designed the same are regular roads. If we're serious about using those access roads for bike lanes they should be designed differently.

    It's far away from me, and I've only used the lanes once, but if they move the lane to the access roads without any other changes I will just use the main road.

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ I am all for bike transportation but IMO the way city admin has been going about it is a bit halfassed.


    we need dedicated bike lanes on major thoroughfares not sloppily painted lanes on random raods that nobody uses or can see in the winter. also ive seen places where there are bike lanes painted on the road right beside a multi use path! wtf?
    Hard to follow painted bike lanes/paths when half the year they are covered in snow or ice or slush or widdrows. As long as Ford keeps selling F350's and other car manufactures keep making cars this city is not going to embrace any bicycle culture whatsoever. If you can hop into your heated/air conditioned vehicle to get to work in comfort 99% of the population are going to take the path of least resistance.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  67. #67

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    I was walking on the sidewalk the other day. All sorts of adults and teenagers riding bikes were using the sidewalk, completely ignoring the bike lane sitting right there.

  68. #68
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    Default More bike lanes get scrubbed

    EDMONTON - Another bike route was voted out of service Wednesday when city councillors agreed to remove several south side lane markings.

    Coun. Michael Walters said there’s “overwhelming opposition” to the lanes on 40th Avenue from 119th Street to 106th Street, and on 106th Street from Whitemud Drive to 34th Avenue.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...810/story.html
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

  69. #69

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    ^Yeah, the roads are pretty wide as it is and I felt safe before the lanes, and I seem to be the only person using the whole 40ave 106 st stretch .I use it twice a week, but the road is SO wide and poorly designed. Designed for speed especially.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  70. #70

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    On a lighter note, I laughed for 10 minutes:

    Even North Korea is Building Glorious Bike Lanes

    http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/...tm_source=SFFB

    "Thank you, Dear Leader, for inventing bike lanes!"
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  71. #71
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    The preliminary plan for the next section of 102ave is here.

    Only from 99th to 103st so far, and I'm not particularly impressed. The bike lane is OK. It's a bit narrow, and is protected only by a "mountable" buffer and maybe flexible posts, for whatever reason, and the barrier doesn't protect as close to the intersection as it should, but allows drivers to take wide sweeping corners through the crosswalk and bike lane.

    The presentation is amturish, with bus silhouettes representing LRT.

    And the big thing is, there's a lot of room for improved separation between the LRT and other traffic, especially at 102st and at rice Howard Way where there's a huge asphault space without any markings that could be a pedestrian refuge, which would allow the Street to be treated as two easy-to-cross narrow streets, each just 6m(20') wide.

  72. #72

  73. #73
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    Ottawa bike lanes Downtown, curb separated on EACH side with clear demarcation at intersections. Twas raining so not busy, but when it cleared holy impressive bike numbers batman.

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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ I am all for bike transportation but IMO the way city admin has been going about it is a bit halfassed.


    we need dedicated bike lanes on major thoroughfares not sloppily painted lanes on random raods that nobody uses or can see in the winter. also ive seen places where there are bike lanes painted on the road right beside a multi use path! wtf?
    Hard to follow painted bike lanes/paths when half the year they are covered in snow or ice or slush or widdrows. As long as Ford keeps selling F350's and other car manufactures keep making cars this city is not going to embrace any bicycle culture whatsoever. If you can hop into your heated/air conditioned vehicle to get to work in comfort 99% of the population are going to take the path of least resistance.
    A significant portion of that 99% can't afford a car, or would prefer to save the money for something else. There are lots of reasons for choosing a bike over a car.

    The #1 thing we need to do is educate people on the rules of the road, and to teach best practices. Eventually everyone on a bike is going to have to share the road with motor vehicles, and both people in motor vehicles and those on bikes should know how it works.

    Bike lanes are not necessarily a lot safer. In fact, for someone who rides according to the rules and best practices, they are sometimes less safe because the rider may be less visible, especially at intersections (though there are measures that can be taken to ameliorate this).

    There is a false sense of security that can come from riding in a bike lane that can lead people to let their guard down. Most collisions happen in intersections, and there are usually many more intersections in a bike lane than on the road proper (alleyways, driveways, etc.).

    When turning onto the street from a driveway, drivers often drive into the middle of the bike lane, without really looking for a bike, then stop and wait. Delivery drivers are among the worst offenders when it comes to parking in bike lanes, but I've seen every kind of person doing it, from City vehicles, to people picking something or somebody up.

    The irony there is that while bike lanes often serve to allay an inordinate fear of being hit from behind (the overwhelming majority of serious collisions happen in intersections), having to weave into traffic to avoid parked vehicles is definitely unsafe and the most likely way to be hit from behind.

    If we are really serious about promoting bikes as a preferred alternate means of transportation we should be formally teaching road safety and safe bicycling practices to everyone in grade school. We all spend a significant amount of our lives on the road. If kids learn how to ride safely at school maybe they'll be more likely to continue riding for at least some of their trips.

    And if they decide never to ride a bike and only travel by motor vehicle they would be more likely to accept people on bikes as a normal part of their own commute.

    It would be so much better for everyone if we all knew what to expect from each other, and acted accordingly. Nearly anyone can ride a bike. That's one of the best things about bikes. They are the people's transportation, around the world. We need to keep it that way. But it also means we have to accept that there will be more irresponsible people on bikes who don't care about or follow the rules.

    It's largely a waste of time and next to impossible to enforce the regulations on some of the worst offenders out there. That doesn't mean we don't enforce the laws, it just means we need to be realistic about the effectiveness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Ottawa bike lanes Downtown, curb separated on EACH side with clear demarcation at intersections. Twas raining so not busy, but when it cleared holy impressive bike numbers batman.

    One on each side is the wrong approach, as a user of that bike lane all the time! They need to be together on one side, because they're not wide enough to pass other cyclists on. It's inconvenient.

    And they don't make left turns great either, they expect you to cross the street (on the right side) and wait for the light to switch directions in those little green boxes basically.

    But far better than what we have now in Edmonton downtown (nothing).

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    Sorry we missed each other buddy.
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    ^Me too! Just got so busy when I got back I didn't even realize I hadn't replied.

  78. #78

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    Using Collision Mapping to Indicate Cycling Desire Lines (Edmonton Collision Data 2009-2014)

    https://slowstreets.wordpress.com/20...-desire-lines/
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  79. #79
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    Had dinner on a patio tonight, drove around a bit, walked around Downtown... swear to god most drivers are oblivious to people and bikes.
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