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Thread: Don't Fear Driverless Cars

  1. #101

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    My calculator is better and faster at math too but the leap to driverless cars is exponentially more difficult by several degrees. Chess has written rules, only 2 players on a fixed grid with 64 squares and standard strategies with no external forces.

    As I noted, in order to drive, drivers must adjust to rapidly changing conditions, thousands of interactions and variables. It took decades to program and develop the AI until a computer could beat a human consistently.

    Respectfully, your false comparison is comparing apples with the Titanic. In chess, if the computer loses, the person wins. In driving, if the computer loses, the driver dies.

    Think about that.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  2. #102
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    There's a ton of a lot smarter people than either of us who have thought about it, and they've made incredible progress in a very short time over the last few years. Whether it's 2 years or 20, the age of primates controlling 2 tons of metal are coming to an end.

  3. #103

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    Don’t things that take decades to develop, tend to undergo compound advances in their final years? Look at the portable / mobile phone development over the four from the 1950s until the 1990s and then compare it to the two decades of the 1990s and 2000s.

    I don’t know if the numbers of variables are that great for the basic hurdles. Inputs - detect anything getting in the way, anything moving into the way, anything altering the road conditions and monitoring anything currently around the vehicle (other vehicles) and ?
    Responses: steering, brakes, speed and ?

    Photo recognition tech or recognition tech should build up massive databases of almost everything the sensors can encounter. Start interconnecting things and then even that hurdle disappears. Eg I am a cement truck and I’m just around the corner out of sight and approaching fast...
    Last edited by KC; 25-01-2018 at 08:45 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Don’t things that take decades to develop, tend to undergo compound advances in their final years?


    Exactly. And we're seeing that happen in a multitude of different AI fields, from facial recognition software (which is leading to some pretty dystopian outcomes in China:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-42248056/in-your-face-china-s-all-seeing-state) to language translation to a myriad of different forms of automation. As with any new and transformative technology, there are both upsides and downsides. Many AI experts are concerned about what could happen with general AI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superi...rs,_Strategies

    Keep in mind that book is already 4 years old, and we're already seeing specialized AI's that can create their own "children" AI that are better than anything humans can come up with: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a8093201.html

    So I guess bring on the self driving cars, but let's try not to end our existence while doing it!

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Don’t things that take decades to develop, tend to undergo compound advances in their final years?


    Exactly. And we're seeing that happen in a multitude of different AI fields, from facial recognition software (which is leading to some pretty dystopian outcomes in China:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-42248056/in-your-face-china-s-all-seeing-state) to language translation to a myriad of different forms of automation. As with any new and transformative technology, there are both upsides and downsides. Many AI experts are concerned about what could happen with general AI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superi...rs,_Strategies

    Keep in mind that book is already 4 years old, and we're already seeing specialized AI's that can create their own "children" AI that are better than anything humans can come up with: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a8093201.html

    So I guess bring on the self driving cars, but let's try not to end our existence while doing it!
    Existence.
    Well, if they can do away with the lawyers... it might be a small price to pay

    However, if AI is already having kids, well,... think teenagers. We’re safe. AI is going to be too busy with its own problems.
    Last edited by KC; 25-01-2018 at 09:08 AM.

  6. #106

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    We hear of planes going on auto-pilot but how about trains?. I've never heard of a train on auto-pilot. Still an engineer in charge. One would think that trains would be the first method on transportation to go driver/engineer free. It's on a fixed track, has designated stops, moving parts when the doors have to open and close, passes through fixed signals etc. How come they have not perfected that yet as it would be easier to do than putting millions of vehicles on auto-pilot.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  7. #107
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  8. #108

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    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    Hmm. Have you looked around at the current batch of drivers. Control has been relinquished.

    On Sunday I had to chastise a middle aged guy parking in front of my wife’s vehicle. He backed into it twice trying to squeeze into the spot. I walked up and had him roll down the window and said: You really have to stop doing that! And didn’t even get an apology. In November a lady bumped into the back of the same vehicle in a drive through line up! Broke the reflector in the bumper which someday I’ll have to fix. (We didn’t ask of anything for the damage, it’s so minor). But the point is - too many people on drugs or something!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    The systems that we're relinquishing control of are going to be safer with computers in control than they were before with primates. Are you aware that something like 99% (that might be hyperbole) of commercial flight is computer controlled now, including take-offs and landings? And it's done nothing but make air travel safer. Air France 447 slamming in to the ocean excepted. But that was ultimately more about human error and bad design than it was the system failing.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    And we must remember the Chevy ignition switch failures that GM knew about for 10 years but did nothing because they saved a few cents on parts that knowingly injured and killed people and the GM lawyers and bean counters rationalized the cost.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene...switch_recalls

    At least 124 people died and they did not care or recall cars until they were forced to. In Canada our public safety laws are so weak that we cannot force automakers to recall or fix cars. There are millions of cars out there that are unsafe.

    Do you really want to trust GM with your life?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    The systems that we're relinquishing control of are going to be safer with computers in control than they were before with primates. Are you aware that something like 99% (that might be hyperbole) of commercial flight is computer controlled now, including take-offs and landings? And it's done nothing but make air travel safer. Air France 447 slamming in to the ocean excepted. But that was ultimately more about human error and bad design than it was the system failing.
    False equivalency


    Let's not use the airline industry ads an example unless you can say that all driverless cars will be inspected and properly maintained by law and regulation as are airplanes. The standards of manufacture, inspection and accountability in the airline industry will NEVER be achieved in the automotive sector and even annual inspections of vehicles by the Alberta government was eliminated 40+ years ago.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Do you really want to trust GM with your life?
    Thank goodness I don't!

  14. #114

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    How about Windows?

    Your car crashes twice a week and freezes at 100kph, to be expected...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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