Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 101 to 121 of 121

Thread: Don't Fear Driverless Cars

  1. #101

    Default

    My calculator is better and faster at math too but the leap to driverless cars is exponentially more difficult by several degrees. Chess has written rules, only 2 players on a fixed grid with 64 squares and standard strategies with no external forces.

    As I noted, in order to drive, drivers must adjust to rapidly changing conditions, thousands of interactions and variables. It took decades to program and develop the AI until a computer could beat a human consistently.

    Respectfully, your false comparison is comparing apples with the Titanic. In chess, if the computer loses, the person wins. In driving, if the computer loses, the driver dies.

    Think about that.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  2. #102
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,360

    Default

    There's a ton of a lot smarter people than either of us who have thought about it, and they've made incredible progress in a very short time over the last few years. Whether it's 2 years or 20, the age of primates controlling 2 tons of metal are coming to an end.

  3. #103

    Default

    Don’t things that take decades to develop, tend to undergo compound advances in their final years? Look at the portable / mobile phone development over the four from the 1950s until the 1990s and then compare it to the two decades of the 1990s and 2000s.

    I don’t know if the numbers of variables are that great for the basic hurdles. Inputs - detect anything getting in the way, anything moving into the way, anything altering the road conditions and monitoring anything currently around the vehicle (other vehicles) and ?
    Responses: steering, brakes, speed and ?

    Photo recognition tech or recognition tech should build up massive databases of almost everything the sensors can encounter. Start interconnecting things and then even that hurdle disappears. Eg I am a cement truck and I’m just around the corner out of sight and approaching fast...
    Last edited by KC; 25-01-2018 at 07:45 AM.

  4. #104
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,360

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Don’t things that take decades to develop, tend to undergo compound advances in their final years?


    Exactly. And we're seeing that happen in a multitude of different AI fields, from facial recognition software (which is leading to some pretty dystopian outcomes in China:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-42248056/in-your-face-china-s-all-seeing-state) to language translation to a myriad of different forms of automation. As with any new and transformative technology, there are both upsides and downsides. Many AI experts are concerned about what could happen with general AI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superi...rs,_Strategies

    Keep in mind that book is already 4 years old, and we're already seeing specialized AI's that can create their own "children" AI that are better than anything humans can come up with: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a8093201.html

    So I guess bring on the self driving cars, but let's try not to end our existence while doing it!

  5. #105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Don’t things that take decades to develop, tend to undergo compound advances in their final years?


    Exactly. And we're seeing that happen in a multitude of different AI fields, from facial recognition software (which is leading to some pretty dystopian outcomes in China:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-42248056/in-your-face-china-s-all-seeing-state) to language translation to a myriad of different forms of automation. As with any new and transformative technology, there are both upsides and downsides. Many AI experts are concerned about what could happen with general AI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superi...rs,_Strategies

    Keep in mind that book is already 4 years old, and we're already seeing specialized AI's that can create their own "children" AI that are better than anything humans can come up with: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a8093201.html

    So I guess bring on the self driving cars, but let's try not to end our existence while doing it!
    Existence.
    Well, if they can do away with the lawyers... it might be a small price to pay

    However, if AI is already having kids, well,... think teenagers. We’re safe. AI is going to be too busy with its own problems.
    Last edited by KC; 25-01-2018 at 08:08 AM.

  6. #106

    Default

    We hear of planes going on auto-pilot but how about trains?. I've never heard of a train on auto-pilot. Still an engineer in charge. One would think that trains would be the first method on transportation to go driver/engineer free. It's on a fixed track, has designated stops, moving parts when the doors have to open and close, passes through fixed signals etc. How come they have not perfected that yet as it would be easier to do than putting millions of vehicles on auto-pilot.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  7. #107
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  8. #108

    Default

    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.

  9. #109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    Hmm. Have you looked around at the current batch of drivers. Control has been relinquished.

    On Sunday I had to chastise a middle aged guy parking in front of my wife’s vehicle. He backed into it twice trying to squeeze into the spot. I walked up and had him roll down the window and said: You really have to stop doing that! And didn’t even get an apology. In November a lady bumped into the back of the same vehicle in a drive through line up! Broke the reflector in the bumper which someday I’ll have to fix. (We didn’t ask of anything for the damage, it’s so minor). But the point is - too many people on drugs or something!

  10. #110
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,360

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    The systems that we're relinquishing control of are going to be safer with computers in control than they were before with primates. Are you aware that something like 99% (that might be hyperbole) of commercial flight is computer controlled now, including take-offs and landings? And it's done nothing but make air travel safer. Air France 447 slamming in to the ocean excepted. But that was ultimately more about human error and bad design than it was the system failing.

  11. #111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    And we must remember the Chevy ignition switch failures that GM knew about for 10 years but did nothing because they saved a few cents on parts that knowingly injured and killed people and the GM lawyers and bean counters rationalized the cost.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene...switch_recalls

    At least 124 people died and they did not care or recall cars until they were forced to. In Canada our public safety laws are so weak that we cannot force automakers to recall or fix cars. There are millions of cars out there that are unsafe.

    Do you really want to trust GM with your life?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  12. #112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I think relinquishing control of something that could kill people so easily if used improperly is not a good idea.

    Especially since we would be willingly handing it over corporations like Google (who already don't care about people's privacy or consumer data) to do it for us.
    The systems that we're relinquishing control of are going to be safer with computers in control than they were before with primates. Are you aware that something like 99% (that might be hyperbole) of commercial flight is computer controlled now, including take-offs and landings? And it's done nothing but make air travel safer. Air France 447 slamming in to the ocean excepted. But that was ultimately more about human error and bad design than it was the system failing.
    False equivalency


    Let's not use the airline industry ads an example unless you can say that all driverless cars will be inspected and properly maintained by law and regulation as are airplanes. The standards of manufacture, inspection and accountability in the airline industry will NEVER be achieved in the automotive sector and even annual inspections of vehicles by the Alberta government was eliminated 40+ years ago.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  13. #113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Do you really want to trust GM with your life?
    Thank goodness I don't!

  14. #114

    Default

    How about Windows?

    Your car crashes twice a week and freezes at 100kph, to be expected...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  15. #115

    Default

    Tesla shares drop as questions around fatal Model X crash in California continue to swirl
    March has been brutal for Tesla, with shares falling on all but five days. The trend continued Wednesday with a decline of as much as 9.7 per cent, the biggest drop since June 2016, to $252.10 U.S.



    The accident also potentially raises fresh questions about self-driving features after a deadly Uber Technologies Inc. accident that happened days earlier and sent ripples across the broader autonomous-vehicle industry.

    “We have in the past questioned Tesla’s promise that the current hardware will be able to eventually provide full self-driving capability,” Cowen analyst Jeffrey Osborne, who rates Tesla as “underperform,” wrote in a note. Given regulators’ reaction to the fatal Uber crash, “we see a large risk” that the self-driving equipment and capabilities Tesla has been touting to customers many not meet the eventual government standards, he wrote.


    <snip>


    Wei Huang, 38, died when his Tesla collided with a highway barrier on southbound Highway 101 near Mountain View and caught fire, according to the California Highway Patrol. The driver’s LinkedIn profile identifies him as a software engineer who joined Apple Inc. in November after more than a decade at Electronic Arts Inc. Apple didn’t respond to a request for comment.


    The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said in a tweet on Tuesday that it was sending investigators to examine issues raised by the accident, including the post-crash fire and steps needed to make the vehicle safe to remove from an accident scene.


    Tesla’s battery packs are designed so that when a fire occurs, it spreads slowly so people have more time to exit or be removed from the car. “That appears to be what happened here as we understand there were no occupants still in the Model X by the time the fire could have presented a risk,” the company said in its blog post.


    The collision caused extensive damage partly because a safety barrier meant to reduce the impact into a concrete lane divider had been removed or crushed in a prior accident without being replaced, according to Tesla. Tesla owners have driven the same highway stretch with Autopilot engaged about 85,000 times since the system was introduced, and no accidents have been reported that the company is aware of, the carmaker said.


    <snip>


    The safety board’s probe into the Mountain View crash is the second this year involving the company’s vehicles. Tesla’s approach to autonomy, which includes cameras and radar, is just one of the designs automakers are developing under the watchful eyes of federal and state regulators. Other carmakers are supplementing their systems with a laser-based system called lidar.


    The NTSB is also investigating this month’s Uber accident in Tempe, Arizona, in which a Volvo XC90 equipped with the ride-hailing giant’s self-driving system failed to slow the vehicle as a 49-year-old woman crossed the street pushing a bicycle. The pedestrian died from the collision.


    Moody’s Investors Service on Tuesday downgraded Tesla’s corporate family rating to B3, six levels into junk, and said its outlook on the company is negative. The credit rater cited “the significant shortfall in the production rate of Tesla’s Model 3” and liquidity pressures as two chief concerns.
    https://www.thestar.com/business/201...-to-swirl.html
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  16. #116

    Default

    Update

    6 seconds and you die

    Tesla says vehicle in deadly California crash was on autopilot
    Driver did not have hands on steering wheel for 6 seconds before crash, says electric car maker
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/te...-car-1.4601297

    The vehicle in a fatal crash last week in California was operating on autopilot, making it the latest accident involving a self-driving vehicle, Tesla has confirmed.


    The electric car maker said the driver, who was killed in the accident, did not have his hands on the steering wheel for six seconds before the crash, despite several warnings from the vehicle. Tesla Inc. tells drivers that its autopilot system, which can keep speed, change lanes and self-park, requires drivers to keep their eyes on the road and hands on the wheel in order to take control of the vehicle to avoid accidents.
    Previous Autopilot Tesla Accidents



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesl...tion-1.4502203



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/te...ntsb-1.4287026
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  17. #117
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    The family said the guy who died reported the autopilot problem to Tesla, ( more than once)they have no account of it, how convenient..

  18. #118

    Default

    I have no idea how Tesla's future will turn out, but Tesla's mission to jump start the Electric Vehicle race is already accomplished.

    So far what we see are that driverless cars are every bit as much a detriment as a benefit.

  19. #119

    Default

    In related news...

    The first-ever attempt by the Russian Post to deliver mail using a drone resulted in a spectacular failure as shown by footage captured in the eastern Siberian city of Ulan-Ude on Monday.


    Direct to home delivery...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  20. #120

    Default

    Than “we” think. So the author has a direct line into your thoughts.


    Bumps on the road: Why driverless cars are further off than we think | CTV News

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/featur...hink-1.3824235

  21. #121

    Default

    From aging drivers to self-driving cars, an in-depth look at the problems facing Canadian roads | CTV News
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/featur...oads-1.3824704

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •