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Thread: Century Park | Residential Development (multi-building) | Under Constuction

  1. #101

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    You can see a line where they want to build higher. Don't mind the toppled over tower... LOL


  2. #102

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    Basically the additional height shouldn't be noticable outside the Century Park complex...

    any negative reaction to this is merely people who don't think towers belong in a city... or just like to complain...

    5 extra stories in the middle of this development will be hardly noticable by anyone

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60
    I thought it was an interesting quote from Alderman Bryan Anderson about this proposal. He asked why doesn't the Library board build the Library and the University build the Art Gallery.
    It appears Anderson thinks the library and the University get their funding from the money fairy.
    Whan I hear statements like these, I wish I lived in Edmonton so I could vote.
    ^ You could always move...

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    I love the developers approach to this.
    As an aside, this is a massive residential development with or without the addition. Is it the largest of it's kind in Canada? Does anyone know of a bigger development?

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco
    I love the developers approach to this.
    As an aside, this is a massive residential development with or without the addition. Is it the largest of it's kind in Canada? Does anyone know of a bigger development?
    Not the largest, but comparatively...

    Of the top of my head?

    Concord Pac Place in Vancouver

    Cityplace in Toronto

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    Nice picture, very helpful.
    I don't see any houses nearby at all that could complain.
    They probably kept the number below 30 because it's 'under 30 floors' and it's still a '20-something floor building'.

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    Oh no 5 floors will block out the sun forever and ever, you wont be able to see the sky

    Now that I'm looking at the picture even more does it look like it shouldn't be a problem.

    Hey as for that toppled over part, keep it looking like it is right now in the picture, move that over towards where the park and right should be and put it on top of that and make an art gallery there. Then maybe the parkade will be a bit more appealing.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  8. #108

    Default Stick to the deal

    Stick to the deal

    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: July 21, 2007 2:36 am


    "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again."

    That classic quote from American entertainer W.C. Fields seems to be the motto of the developers of Century Park, a 34-building collection of condominiums planned for the site of the old Heritage Mall in south Edmonton.

    After reaching a compromise with city council in 2005 that saw the plans for the site's four tallest buildings scaled back from the 32 storeys originally proposed in January 2004 to 24 storeys, the developer was back in the news this week with another proposal to increase the height to 29 storeys.

    ProCura Real Estate Services offer is to build and house an $8-million art gallery for a University of Alberta art display, as well as a public library, in exchange for permission to build an extra five storeys on the four tallest towers.

    Density is good for cities, particularly around transit hubs, which Century Park will become. But this latest proposal stinks. A deal is a deal. Developers should abide by the ones they agree to.

    Sure, they have the legal right to return to city council to ask for changes. But it is unprincipled to force concerned communities to refight the same battle they thought was settled a mere two years earlier.

    The 24-storeys agreed to by council was already much higher than many in the community felt was a good fit. Neighbourhoods need to have confidence that once council makes a decision and approves a compromise that developers will abide by that deal.

    If it reopens the deal, council will send the wrong signal to other neighbourhoods such as Strathearn and Glenora and Grovenor will wonder how they can have confidence in their negotiations.

    If that happens, neighourhoods around Century Park should take advantage of the opportunity to try and push for their original proposal to take the buildings down a few storeys. That's their right too.

    © The Edmonton Journal 2007

    -30-

  9. #109

    Default Re: Stick to the deal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Edmonton Journal
    Stick to the deal

    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: July 21, 2007 2:36 am


    "If at first you ...

    But this latest proposal stinks. A deal is a deal. Developers should abide by the ones they agree to.

    Sure, they have the legal right to return to city council to ask for changes. But it is unprincipled to force concerned communities to refight the same battle they thought was settled a mere two years earlier.
    I don't agree that this is the same "battle" at all. The fact that some people debate whether density is a positive or not doesn't automatically presume whether most people would agree that having an art gallery and library in a neighbourhood is a positive or not.

    Procura has been a pretty good neighbour already by planning and building nice buildings that will, in my opinion, be vastly better neighbours than the mall which preceeded them. Then insisting on the design integrity of the park 'n' ride has also spared the neighbourhood an eyesore (although I hope eventually the powers that be do get around to building one.)

    This article is presumptuous to the extreme that the community leaders themselves, let alone the bulk of community members would automatically reject the proposal. It is putting words in their mouths which may or may not exist.

    My bias I'll admit is that art galleries and libraries are fantastic additions to any community, as long as they're not burdensome to pay. Furthermore, I believe density is one key to building better cities. Although I may disagree with (a fair number of) other people's opinions, I don't begrudge them. And I wouldn't want to tell them what their's is.

    I hope the community considers the new deal carefully, if they are considering opposing it.

  10. #110

    Default Let builder build

    Let builder build

    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: July 29, 2007 2:36 am


    Re: "Builder offers gallery sweetener; Developer would build $8M art facility if taller towers are approved," The Journal, July 19.

    So a developer wants to build an art gallery be run by the University of Alberta for art displays and community art classes and a small library, and Coun. Bryan Anderson has a problem with this.

    How about we actually listen to what the developer has to say? If we can get some of these capital projects paid for by business proposals such as this, maybe we can get better use of our tax dollars.

    I would love to see the city work with developers to build better neighbourhoods, with increased density where it can be justified. If we can do this, maybe we will end up with a better Edmonton, with cleaner streets, better parks, better facilities, etc.

    What is wrong with going back to developers downtown and in Oliver and asking for such facilities in the area in exchange for higher densities? Don't discount this idea; it has merit. In other areas, we can have high-density nodes around new LRT lines and help finance the stations with similar agreements.

    It's time we think outside the box. We are no longer a small town, but a booming metropolis.

    Walid Melhem, Edmonton

    © The Edmonton Journal 2007

    -30-

  11. #111

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    Here is the link to the thread about the additional government money for the art gallery. http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...?p=49872#49872

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    Default Century Park Rumours

    I heard a rumour today that some unit holders in either Phase 2 or 3 have been called to have their money returned as Century Park cannot find trades to do the work.

    Anyone have info to confirm this or say this is BS?
    Thus the task is not so much to see what no-one yet has seen, but to think what nobody yet has thought that which everyone sees. - Schopenhauer

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    Well for starters they don't even have a phase three yet so that's definately out. I know that phase one is at grade on some parts right now and they are excavating on phase 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscar
    Well for starters they don't even have a phase three yet so that's definately out. I know that phase one is at grade on some parts right now and they are excavating on phase 2.
    Phase 3 is the tower that was going to be sold.
    Thus the task is not so much to see what no-one yet has seen, but to think what nobody yet has thought that which everyone sees. - Schopenhauer

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    Its possible.

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    I guess I'll have to send them a resume!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cremazie
    I guess I'll have to send them a resume!
    You must be one heck of a tradesmen if you can build a condo tower by yourself!

    Not bad for someone who would have to be about 50 years old to get through all the apprenticeships.

  19. #119

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    It is sure moving slowly so that is a possibility that they can't find enough trades workers. However a project like that sending customers away? That seems a little bit out there. The more likely scenario is that people who are phoning about when they can move in are being allowed to get a refund.

  20. #120

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    Does anyone know the proposed timeline for this whole project? Wasn't full build out for 2011? or was it later then that?

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    10 year project...


    possible, but i dont think this would happen on this project with these partners.
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    My two cents is that the project is moving way too slow as compared to projects downtown. Century Park phase one should not at this time only be at grade. It stalled since the spring...observing the weathering on the excavation verifies this.

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    Century Park does seem to be going rather slowly.

    I doubt they'd be calling people to return their money. Think about how many other condo projects stall and go beyond the original date of occupation.
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    edited
    Learning without thought is labor lost; thought without learning is perilous.

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    ^yes...and in that case buyer beware. Read your contract and ask that question before you sign.
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    I've driven past the site quite regularly and here is my synopsis. The mall is practically gone, they are about 15 feet below the surface for the second phase and the first phase has reached the surface. They are progressing no different than other developments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD
    I've driven past the site quite regularly and here is my synopsis. The mall is practically gone, they are about 15 feet below the surface for the second phase and the first phase has reached the surface. They are progressing no different than other developments.
    Have to disagree, the construction on the first phase is taking a considerable amount of time.

    Now, I don't want to speculate too much...but, they may be delaying the schedule for phase one so that they are hitting the two building at once.

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    no matter the speed at which they build, it won't be fast enough. I can't wait to see life breathed into my neighbourhood.

  29. #129

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    Hrmm... they dont seem to be having any delays....

    New:

    Permit: 71663162-001
    To construct an Apartment Housing (2 Towers-102 units each) Phase II
    Location: 2606 - 109 STREET NW
    Plan 0022925 Blk 32 Lot 5A - ERMINESKIN
    Applicant: ARNDT TKALCIC ARCHITECTURE
    Application Date: 9/27/2007

    Permit: 71663749-001
    To Construct an Apartment Housing Building (108 units) Phase III.
    Location: 2606 - 109 STREET NW
    Plan 0022925 Blk 32 Lot 5A - ERMINESKIN
    Applicant: ARNDT TKALCIC ARCHITECTURE
    Application Date: 9/27/2007
    moving right along it would appear Phase II and III

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohandas
    I hope this rumor is false. Not that I'm accusing Century Park of this, but don't some developers have a scam where terminate contracts by refunding money, then hike the price of the same condo unit? This helps the developer compensate for construction inflation.
    I'd be *very* surprised if that happened at Century Park. It's not like it's a project being done by some fly by night company. Pretty much every party involved is well respected in the development world.
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    Came accross this today - looks like the delays are due to noise and dust complaints...


    Tuesday » October 23 » 2007

    Heritage Mall demolition may resume

    edmontonjournal.com


    Tuesday, October 23, 2007


    EDMONTON - The former Heritage Mall demolition now may resume under new conditions set by the city and Capital Health Authority.

    Demolition, to enable construction of the Century Park condominium complex, was stopped in late September after neighbours complained about noise and concrete dust.

    Mark Garret, branch manager of permits and licensing in the city's planning department, announced today that demolition may resume with materials being broken up and recycled off-site.

    On-site, the city will monitor noise while Capital Health will monitor air quality.

    "We want the demolition done as quickly as possible with minimum impact to the surrounding community so the land can be put back to use," Garrett said.

    © Edmonton Journal 2007








    Copyright © 2007 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

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    Saw this on SSP Forum the new Central at Century park looks very nice.http://<a href="http://photobucket.c...&#91;/img]</a>

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    [img][/img]

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    Sorry can't ssem to get it to post here.

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    Here you go:

    Thus the task is not so much to see what no-one yet has seen, but to think what nobody yet has thought that which everyone sees. - Schopenhauer

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    Thanks Troy.

  37. #137

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    Wow, looks great!

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    looks very good indeed....and local too!


    Arndt Tkalcic Architecture is doing the design, overseen by james cheng.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    looks very good indeed....and local too!


    Arndt Tkalcic Architecture is doing the design, overseen by james cheng.
    Looks Hot. Now BZKA needs to keep up on behalf of Carma/Urban Landmarks.

    I think I want to buy a unit in Aurora.
    Thus the task is not so much to see what no-one yet has seen, but to think what nobody yet has thought that which everyone sees. - Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyD
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    looks very good indeed....and local too!


    Arndt Tkalcic Architecture is doing the design, overseen by james cheng.
    Looks Hot. Now BZKA needs to keep up on behalf of Carma/Urban Landmarks.

    I think I want to buy a unit in Aurora.
    Me too. I am looking at Aurora and Centruy Park as my first purchase of a condo.

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    I heard a rumour today that some unit holders in either Phase 2 or 3 have been called to have their money returned as Century Park cannot find trades to do the work.

    Anyone have info to confirm this or say this is BS?
    I can't comment on whether money is being returned, but I can say there's a couple reasons why construction is somewhat slow. First is that it's a huge parkade, and there's a partial second level to it. Second is that concrete has been in short supply in Edmonton for awhile. I can also say that there's not a shortage of tradespeople in general slowing the project down, because there's really not much work to be done other than cribbing at this point.

    Phase II (two more buildings, similar to Phase I, more large suites) is excavated and they're starting foundation work fairly soon, and I believe Phase III's (one building, 15 storeys) parkade is part of that excavation but they wont' be doing foundation work on it for awhile.

    Much like any other developer, I wouldn't trust what they say when talking about schedules.

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    Century Park progressing slowly but surely:


    All photos taken today, May 17, by me. Some rights reserved:

    Lots of room to build out and much concrete from the old mall still to be removed:


    First phase topped out?



    A couple more here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/1177407...7603871838702/

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    First phase topped out?
    That's the South building of the first phase, and yes it's nearly topped out. The North building of phase one is now starting to rise. They both sit on the same large parkade.

    The second phase, quite similar to the first, is currently working on foundations. The entire parkade is two levels, whereas the first was only partially, so there's quite a bit more work on the foundation.

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    haha ian I though you were going to say they were doing sales any not one unit sold,

    i hope to see the project go in full

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    I do hope that the entire project happens, but if not all right away I hope the structures that are built are somewhat close to the LRT station and not accross an empty field.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    The three first phases that are going first are all on 109 street, opposite the LRT station. Unfortunately I believe that the stuff closer to the LRT will be coming later on in the project.

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    ^correct
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    It still boggles my mind why anyone would want to live in a suburban high rise, when they could live in a vibrant downtown one (although there are some "old at heart" people out there). I guess this could have some attraction to those who comute to South side jobs though.

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    ^...it certainly wouldn't be my choice, but as you say, based on personal needs.
    In favour of Architecture that is of our time and place.

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    ^location, proximity to work, perception, current location etc.
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    There's also a lot of boomers around the CP area who are looking to downsize, but want to stay in the neighbourhood. With that being said, I still wish CP was being built downtown where crappy railtown is.

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    ^railtown, love it or not, attracted people who might not otherwise be there and housing stock that is in low supply downtown (seniors/townhouse). If anything i would prefer to see lower rossdale or east jasper become a westbank condo forest.
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    ^ So did TNP's downtown properties!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I find railtown 1000% better feel and look than TNP's Bronx projects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    It still boggles my mind why anyone would want to live in a suburban high rise, when they could live in a vibrant downtown one (although there are some "old at heart" people out there). I guess this could have some attraction to those who comute to South side jobs though.
    This just proves how diverse the marketplace is. It is not as black and white as some may believe.

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    ^ Just give Railtown 15 years. It will be the new type of bronx

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    ^perhaps, but TNP was the bronx's worst 30 yrs later
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    It still boggles my mind why anyone would want to live in a suburban high rise, when they could live in a vibrant downtown one (although there are some "old at heart" people out there). I guess this could have some attraction to those who comute to South side jobs though.

    The people who are buying are not primarly motivated by vibrancy.

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    and with a connection to the LRT, they are a quick ride away from Vibrancy, and still have the luxury of suburban Edmonton. Win-Win

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    and with a connection to the LRT, they are a quick ride away from Vibrancy, and still have the luxury of suburban Edmonton. Win-Win
    Doesn't look like a win win it's been almost two years haven't been able to sell out the second phase and not even 50% of the third phase. I doubt this project will reach total buildout as proposed in our lifetime.

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    ^but they have a starbucks and a brewsters on the corner there......thats as good as anything downtown
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    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    and with a connection to the LRT, they are a quick ride away from Vibrancy, and still have the luxury of suburban Edmonton. Win-Win
    Doesn't look like a win win it's been almost two years haven't been able to sell out the second phase and not even 50% of the third phase. I doubt this project will reach total buildout as proposed in our lifetime.
    are you 90 yrs old then?

    They have always stated that from shovel in to final grass it is 10-15yrs. That is realistic.
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  63. #163

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    As Century Park starts to get a few buildings up, and some of the awesome services and amenities are put in, the demand for this place will only grow.

    Give it time, it will build out full, and likely within the time frame they have set.

    Don't forget, the rush of baby boomers wanting smaller places such as condos is only starting now. (My parents included... who have just bought a condo, downsizing from the 1600+sq ft bungalow)

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    LRT there will make people see it in a whole new light...it will be THE place to be southside for condos. Nothing touches it.
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    its gonna be awesome, if i play my cards right i am hoping to get in on one of the tower condo suites and since they wont be done for a while i got some time to save. that whole corner really has almost everything one could need. I can see it being a very trendy "walkable" place in the near future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post

    Doesn't look like a win win it's been almost two years haven't been able to sell out the second phase and not even 50% of the third phase. I doubt this project will reach total buildout as proposed in our lifetime.

    Considering they have applied to have every tower increased by a handful of floors I'd say things are rolling along smoothly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LindseyT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post

    Doesn't look like a win win it's been almost two years haven't been able to sell out the second phase and not even 50% of the third phase. I doubt this project will reach total buildout as proposed in our lifetime.

    Considering they have applied to have every tower increased by a handful of floors I'd say things are rolling along smoothly.
    They can apply to have whatever they want but if you A don't sell them and B don't build them it doesn't matter what you apply for. There must be atleast 50 building applied for in the city that were never built. That's why we are where we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    They can apply to have whatever they want but if you A don't sell them and B don't build them it doesn't matter what you apply for. There must be atleast 50 building applied for in the city that were never built. That's why we are where we are.
    I think a lot of people are being very cautious, and rightly so. In another thread I asked for someone to post one attractive high rise apartment / condo in an Edmonton single family residential / suburban neighborhood, and no-body could do it, despite the myriad of attempts over the years here (the best posted was an average one near Rosedale). Century Park towers might look nice for 5 years or so, but after that, I expect they will look as out of place as other scattered high rises we have throughout the city. By contrast, regardless of the "quality" or otherwise of a development like Railtown, it looks good as a "whole" because it fits in brilliantly with the neighborhood, rather than sticking out like a sore thumb. I may be proven wrong though on Century Park - in fairness, it offers great transit, and there is I guess a need for condo living in this part of town given the proximity to businesses / employers on the South Side, but in saying that, I am not surprised by the caution / pace of progress.
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-05-2008 at 08:37 AM.

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    Don't forget the airport. For airport employees (of whom I'm told there are 3,000) the Century Park location certainly beats downtown. Given the late shifts than they would be working, Century Park also offers greater personal security than any cities downtown.

    I have family in the area that considered moving to Century Park for the very reason described in this thread; they are from that area and don't want to leave when they downsize. That offers a huge potential. I see it taking many years but they finally seem to be moving much faster than before with three, four or more buildings under construction. Fortunately they are taller than the standard four story building, but sadly they are not the towers. I really hope that they get to add the additional floors to the towers. We have a flat city so a few thirty story towers in each corner would help to add dimension; a sense of where you are when you look at the horizon.

    The expanded LRT plans call for it to continue south under 23rd Ave, across Anthony Henday to Rutherford and then the airport. Can you imagine the value of your unit when you have the only access to both downtown and the Leduc or rather Edmonton International Airport? Lots of potential. Then there is the YMCA a short walk south and you have what it takes to be a very desired location. It will get built.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    and with a connection to the LRT, they are a quick ride away from Vibrancy, and still have the luxury of suburban Edmonton. Win-Win
    Doesn't look like a win win it's been almost two years haven't been able to sell out the second phase and not even 50% of the third phase. I doubt this project will reach total buildout as proposed in our lifetime.
    The second phase is almost entirely sold out, there's a very minimal number of suites left. Yes the third phase sold slowly, but that's because it went on sale at a time when the market went soft. Unless you're of the opinion that Edmonton is going to outright stop growing, then I don't see a need to worry.

    The buildout will happen, but yes, it might be on the long side of 10-15 years. For a project with 3000 or so units plus large amounts of commercial space, amenities and so on, that's realistic as IanO said. Once everything is said and done, the development in total is well over a billion dollars.

    They can apply to have whatever they want but if you A don't sell them and B don't build them it doesn't matter what you apply for. There must be atleast 50 building applied for in the city that were never built. That's why we are where we are.
    The first phase, two buildings, is approximately 50-60% complete. The second phase, two buildings, is coming out of the ground now. The third phase's foundation is being worked on as it resides between the two halves of the second phase, and work will probably continue alongside the second phase. It's being built.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moahunter
    Century Park towers might look nice for 5 years or so, but after that, I expect they will look as out of place as other scattered high rises we have throughout the city.
    Actually, I think the pinkish Heritage Towers directly beside Century Park look fine in that area, and will even moreso with CP going in. I'm sure I could think of others if I gave it some thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voice
    with three, four or more buildings under construction. Fortunately they are taller than the standard four story building, but sadly they are not the towers. I really hope that they get to add the additional floors to the towers.
    First Phase is two buildings, seven stories, 180ish suites in total. Second phase is two buildings, 8 stories, 190ish suites in total. Third phase is one building, 15 stories applying for 18 (I think, don't remember exactly) with around 120-150 suites (again I think, haven't looked at the plans closely). After that I don't know what the next plan is, those three phases will keep them busy for quite awhile, through 2010. I imagine foundation work on a fourth phase would begin middle or late 2009.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that there is a huge amount of infrastructure to install here. All the roadways, storm, water, sanitary, gas and electrical mains and so on. This is a huge development.
    Last edited by raz0469; 30-05-2008 at 11:12 AM.

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    How many phases/tower are there supposed to be in total?

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    Check out their website: centurypark.ca
    I believe they are proposing 14 highrises, 6 midrises plus a few office complexes. It is a huge development that will take 10 - 15 years to complete

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Check out their website: centurypark.ca
    You mean www.centurypark.ca

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    ^ same thing isnt it? (adding the www. makes it clickable though...)

    you dont actually need to type in the leading www. now a days in most cases.

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    ^...right, i never type in that prefix anymore...
    In favour of Architecture that is of our time and place.

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    Nevermind, I could sware the post originally said centuryplace.ca, but from what I can tell the post wasn't edited. So apparently I just wasn't paying attention.

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    so i have heard that century park wants more commercial office space in place of some condo...
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    so i have heard that century park wants more commercial office space in place of some condo...
    The city better not agree to that... any office towers should be downtown, not a 25mins drive from downtown.

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    ^^ that would be good. Not the 24 storey tower you were talking about earlier, but maybe a middleground between that and Weber/Centre 104

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    one office tower for suburban commercial offices/medical offices/lawyers offices/etc wouldn't be such a bad idea. But it shouldn't attract offices away from downtown though... kinda iffy on this one

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    not to mention that i would imagine the space there wouldnt be much cheaper than downtown...
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    Just brainstorming an idea - if the Century Park people are experiencing such slow condo sales then instead of an office tower build a rec centre.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^uh...
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Just brainstorming an idea - if the Century Park people are experiencing such slow condo sales then instead of an office tower build a rec centre.
    Two blocks from the Y? Why?

    (not to mention they already have their own spa/club thing, and club fit or whatever)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Just brainstorming an idea - if the Century Park people are experiencing such slow condo sales then instead of an office tower build a rec centre.
    I suggest they move it downtown - or perhaps the North Edge (just kidding, well, only half kidding).

    A bit more realistically - perhaps they should look at revising plans according to what is selling, and what is not? If for example, it turns out that the market prefers low rise townhouses / condos or even midrises (which I think it might in these sort of suburban areas), then they may be better of scaling down their plans a little and actually selling units, rather than having high rises go unbuilt (if that is what could happen). Maybe we will end up with 14 midrises and 6 highrises, instead of the reverse?
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-06-2008 at 10:22 AM.

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    ^uh, no
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^uh, no
    Ok - just leave plans as they are, and take forever to build it. We can look at the empty lots in the meantime. I expect we will see modification, but time will tell.

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    ^a DC2 is quite prescriptive...
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^a DC2 is quite prescriptive...
    In a way, that's the problem with them. It we had better RA9 zones or something, that were modern enough to be acceptable, it would give a bit more flexibility in these sort of circumnstances to chop a few floors off, or similar. Developers could "go for the max" by going for the "highest" zone they wanted, then modify plans "downwards", or in other directions, as they see fit, within what is broadly accepted for the location.

    Without the flexibility, we end up with an all or nothing type scenario, which can be the worst of all worlds if to some extent, we end up with nothing, or at least, a very very slow something.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-06-2008 at 10:31 AM.

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    ^no
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    I still think a prominent (but not too prominent) office component is good.

    It's LRT connected. And it will add daytime, weekday activity to the CP site. And that will go a long way towards making CP a truly 24/7/365 mixed-use site.

    I don't even like CP, but this seems much preferable to all the sqft of suburban office campuses that are under construction on the southside right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^no
    Not with respect to this specific project, and what this specific project should or shouldn't do, but the zone thing is I think this is one of the matters I actually agreed with KCantor on. We would be better off if we had modernized and better zones, rather than always DC2'ing something like this. This would give more scope, not less to developers, within what are the zones limits. There needs to be more flexibility in the process, as no-one has a crystal ball as to how the market will or won't respond in a given location.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-06-2008 at 10:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    I still think a prominent (but not too prominent) office component is good.

    It's LRT connected. And it will add daytime, weekday activity to the CP site. And that will go a long way towards making CP a truly 24/7/365 mixed-use site.

    I don't even like CP, but this seems much preferable to all the sqft of suburban office campuses that are under construction on the southside right now.
    I just think that's a risky precedent... allowing for highrise office towers to be built out in the suburbs would be just as dangerous to our downtown as WEM was when it first opened. We have to be VERY careful here.

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    I think they want to put the office where the park'n'ride was to go.

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    ^no...there was always an office tower in the plans.
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    ^ I think that's true. First of all, there ALWAYS have been plans for office space at Century Park - I think 160,000 square feet was part of the original plan. As well, one of the towers, the one near the proposed parking garage, was to be a "swing" tower - office or condo, depending on demand.

    As far as construction and timing are concerned, a reliable source has told me that plans are moving ahead, that the entire development will be built. Its build-out may be stretched a bit longer, but the commitment is there. In fact, I believe that the developers are still requesting that several of the towers be increased to 27 or 28 stories.
    Almost always open to debate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    I still think a prominent (but not too prominent) office component is good.

    It's LRT connected. And it will add daytime, weekday activity to the CP site. And that will go a long way towards making CP a truly 24/7/365 mixed-use site.

    I don't even like CP, but this seems much preferable to all the sqft of suburban office campuses that are under construction on the southside right now.
    I just think that's a risky precedent... allowing for highrise office towers to be built out in the suburbs would be just as dangerous to our downtown as WEM was when it first opened. We have to be VERY careful here.
    Office towers in the suburbs are going to happen regardless. There are two office markets, downtown and suburban. See Toronto / Vancouver / Montreal as examples and as of recent, Calgary. I wouldn't expect 20+ storey buildings, but we'll definately see buildings within the 3-10 storey range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^a DC2 is quite prescriptive...
    In a way, that's the problem with them. It we had better RA9 zones or something, that were modern enough to be acceptable, it would give a bit more flexibility in these sort of circumnstances to chop a few floors off, or similar. Developers could "go for the max" by going for the "highest" zone they wanted, then modify plans "downwards", or in other directions, as they see fit, within what is broadly accepted for the location.

    Without the flexibility, we end up with an all or nothing type scenario, which can be the worst of all worlds if to some extent, we end up with nothing, or at least, a very very slow something.
    Not really, a developer has the right at any time to rezone their lands to correspond to market demands. Period. Doesn't matter if this is facilitated using DC1, DC2 or conventional zones. And don't even try to argue this issue because you'll be put to bed on this.
    Last edited by ChrisD; 07-06-2008 at 11:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Not really, a developer has the right at any time to rezone their lands to correspond to market demands. Period. Doesn't matter if this is facilitated using DC1, DC2 or conventional zones. And don't even try to argue this issue because you'll be put to bed on this.
    Anyone can apply to re-zone their land at any time - yes. But wouldn't it be easier, for everyone, including city staff who have to go through the re-zoning process, if there were standard zones that were attractive enough for modern developers, instead of everything being a DC2? If no-one is using standard zones, that tells me that they are no longer relevant in our marketplace, at least for larger projects.

    Maybe I am wrong (it would be far from the first time), I don't know all the in's and out's of how easy or not it is to amend a DC zone, or how flexible this particular DC zone already is. It would just seem to me, that I would prefer to own a piece of land that allowed anything from a 22 storey building, to a 6 storey one, within specified and modern criteria. It would be nice to me, if we had modern zone categories that could facilitate something like that. Obviously any design change is going to be subject to the architectural committee anyway, but I don't see why neighbors and similar should be consulted every time a few floors are chopped off, or perhaps even added, if it were within what was approved as the zone for the site. Taking that a step further, if we could tommorow enhance all the existing RA9's, or whatever else in the city, to make them more commercially attractive, maybe that could get some development on lots that are already zoned, but underdeveloped?
    Last edited by moahunter; 07-06-2008 at 12:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Not really, a developer has the right at any time to rezone their lands to correspond to market demands. Period. Doesn't matter if this is facilitated using DC1, DC2 or conventional zones. And don't even try to argue this issue because you'll be put to bed on this.
    Anyone can apply to re-zone their land at any time - yes. But wouldn't it be easier, for everyone, including city staff who have to go through the re-zoning process, if there were standard zones that were attractive enough for modern developers, instead of everything being a DC2? If no-one is using standard zones, that tells me that they are no longer relevant in our marketplace, at least for larger projects.
    You are absolutely correct, it would be great if zones could be written in such a manner that could correspond to contemporary market demands / trends. But it is very difficult to tailor zones to achieve this, particularly when trying to regulate items such as parking, height, density, setbacks, etc.

    I should note that the City is currently reviewing their zones and proposing some changes that will help reduce the need for rezoning, variances, and the need to resort to Direct Controls.

    Maybe I am wrong (it would be far from the first time), I don't know all the in's and out's of how easy or not it is to amend a DC zone, or how flexible this particular DC zone already is. It would just seem to me, that I would prefer to own a piece of land that allowed anything from a 22 storey building, to a 6 storey one, within specified and modern criteria. It would be nice to me, if we had modern zone categories that could facilitate something like that. Obviously any design change is going to be subject to the architectural committee anyway, but I don't see why neighbors and similar should be consulted every time a few floors are chopped off, or perhaps even added, if it were within what was approved as the zone for the site. Taking that a step further, if we could tommorow enhance all the existing RA9's, or whatever else in the city, to make them more commercially attractive, maybe that could get some development on lots that are already zoned, but underdeveloped?
    Amending a DC2 is time consuming. It requires a new application to repeal the existing DC2 bylaw and replace it with a new one. The applicant has to prepare the new zone, go through the formal circulation process, pay new fees, notify the public, hold a pubic open house, and advance to Council for approval.

    With regards to public notification, this is not so much a City policy but the way the law reads in regards to providing proper and adequate notification to the public. There are many case law reports on this subject.
    Last edited by ChrisD; 08-06-2008 at 01:38 PM.

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