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Thread: Mature community infill building question

  1. #1
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    Default Mature community infill building question

    Hello Everyone,

    First post here on C2E, thank you for having me! My name is Eddie and my wife and I are looking to move into an more mature community by building a new home on an infill.

    We are moving from a greenfield community to a more mature one for the fact that the "feel" of a more mature neighborhood seem to fit (. Not to mention our current home built by Jayman was not very well built to say the least. Which is why I'm shying away from bigger builders.

    If I were to handle all individual trades (I hear this is the cost effective way compared to hiring your own turn key builder) can someone give me a run down as to how the process goes after we find the right property to build on?

    Thank you everyone!

    Eddie

  2. #2
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    If you do not have experience being a PM, especially with building and staying on top of multiple trades and having almost a full time commitment to this project, hire someone with experience or have a builder run the project for you.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Ian

    Thanks for the input - I have experience from smaller commercial renovation projects and such but that's about it.

    I hear it can be a challenge and I welcome the challenge to learn a new thing or two during this process.

    I'm thinking it might be very similar to handling a commercial reno project with an addition of a few more steps (i.e. foundation, framing and such)

    Thank you for your input!

    Eddie

  4. #4

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    Thats a hard one. If your useing mortgages most banks won't allow you do it anyway as they want a General/Builder to do the work.

    A General/Builder costs about 15% on top so you are saving money.

    I Haven't done a residential house in the City before. but it should follow basic land development principles. (The company i work for does all our own PMing, we only hire out Plumbing and Concrete everything else is done inhouse)

    City Permits- including engineered drawings of your house, talking to the city will also allow you to ask the processes for inspections and whatnot that are needed to pass (for example framers and electrical need an inspection before you continue work)

    Utility Permits- I don't know if you have to talk to the Utilities in the city before you do anything, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

    Demo/Subgrade Contractor- Get their timeline, dig a basement to your specs, dispose of all material.
    note* (i don't know about Demo contractors but most often the builder supplies the bins to take away material themselves for most other trades, so you may have to get a bin yourself)

    Preliminary Sewage/Water/(electrical) portion- getting the pipes connected to the city lines and inside your house.

    Concrete/Foundation Contractor- You want to make sure they are either a good company or you have someone who knows what to do with concrete there during pouring, (Concrete contractors are notorious for not using recommended levels of material, especially during booms like now)

    Framer- Build your building to engineered specs.

    ELectrical and plumbing-

    Concrete second phase- Basement floor

    Drywall, Flooring,

    Roofing, Siding, Painters,

    other finishing trades. inc. Electrical and Plumbing second stages and cabinetry

    Landscaping, etc.

    Just remember the PM is usually responsible for providing all materials that are needed by all sub trades. as well as all disposal and scheduling.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himser View Post
    Thats a hard one. If your useing mortgages most banks won't allow you do it anyway as they want a General/Builder to do the work.

    A General/Builder costs about 15% on top so you are saving money.
    I don't know if that's correct. When I asked my bank about GCing it myself, they said they would need to see quotes before hand to make sure I was approved for the right amount, and then they would do 2-3 draws and I'd have to cover the bills in the meantime.
    Builders can charge anywhere from 11-25% on top of their costs. Mind you, they probably have better relationships with subs and can guarantee they'll be present. I've often heard of people doing GC themselves, hiring a bunch of subs, and then the subs don't show up or show up several weeks/months late due to a better client pulling rank, or a higher paid job pushing yours down. GCing yourself, if you have any kind of knowledge about housebuilding and timelines, will most likely save you money, but it will probably add 20-50% to your timeline.

  6. #6
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    In the long run, it won't save you money either, unless you are in the industry and have some pull. Otherwise you will be at the bottom of everyone's list, and you won't get good pricing in the first place. Even large developers like Procura/Westbank learn this the hard way.

  7. #7
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    Thank you for the insight everyone. I'm leaning towards GCing it myself on my own house this time which may open doors for the second time when I want to do it for business.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Himser View Post
    Thats a hard one. If your useing mortgages most banks won't allow you do it anyway as they want a General/Builder to do the work.

    A General/Builder costs about 15% on top so you are saving money.
    I don't know if that's correct. When I asked my bank about GCing it myself, they said they would need to see quotes before hand to make sure I was approved for the right amount, and then they would do 2-3 draws and I'd have to cover the bills in the meantime.
    Builders can charge anywhere from 11-25% on top of their costs. Mind you, they probably have better relationships with subs and can guarantee they'll be present. I've often heard of people doing GC themselves, hiring a bunch of subs, and then the subs don't show up or show up several weeks/months late due to a better client pulling rank, or a higher paid job pushing yours down. GCing yourself, if you have any kind of knowledge about housebuilding and timelines, will most likely save you money, but it will probably add 20-50% to your timeline.
    Hmm yea draws work too. i just know banks don't like them that much compared to getting a outside GC/PM but with business when push comes to shove they will usually relent.

    I would still highly recommend hiring a PM, even if they are not a builder themselves some PMs out there work on contracts doing a house here and there. they know the subs and get better response time/cost out of them. and many subs don't really like working for the homeowner themselves which is one of the reasons a renovation costs quite a bit more than building new. (most contractors i know charge at least 2X what they would charge a builder for renos)

  9. #9
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    Sounds like it might be wise to hire a seasoned PM and strike a deal with him to handle the process alongside me.

    regarding the mortgage - my rep at ATB says it is tougher to get approvals without a PM but it isn;t impossible.

  10. #10

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    The mortgage will be an issue unless you have a large down payment. Generally speaking you will be able to finance the bare land at 60% then once you have the building to certain stages you will receive 'draws' on the financing. Once the building is at lockup or airtight stage you would get about 44% of the end financing, this would have to payout anything owing on the land and the remainder would go to you to pay contractors. The problem is being able to finance the construction yourself as you would have to pay to get it to the stages or find really flexible subs to wait for 90 days or longer. There are also the costs of lawyers and appraisers along the way. Not saying it is impossible but it is difficult. Most lenders would require that your existing home be sold or under contract before they would approve the financing so you would have to find a place to live as well.

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