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Thread: Downtown Office Tower Vacancies

  1. #301
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    The same Allards who was the lone holdout against the Warehouse Park in favor of their Impark parking lot?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Let’s expropriate it and build a park.

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    Ahhh ok, that explains a lot. While so many properties are being developed and even dangled out there to just see if there is interest in the land, this property has been quiet. It's so sad that while we have a number of people wanting to move forward with the downtown core, that we also have a few holdouts that have been and perhaps will always be holdouts to remaining the status quo.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Well, I am sure that parking lot is very profitable. So whats the motivation to do anything. I can understand why they probably aren't in any rush to sell it.

  5. #305
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    There's greater profitability to be had, especially if a multiple underground parkade replaces a surface lot. But I say let's wait a few years until the rest of all this downtown construction takes a breather.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  6. #306
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    It's too bad though that we have to wait a few years. Meanwhile on a positive note other properties do get developed and other parts of the downtown are getting some love.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    There's greater profitability to be had, especially if a multiple underground parkade replaces a surface lot. But I say let's wait a few years until the rest of all this downtown construction takes a breather.
    An existing parking lot is guaranteed profit. A project that will take 5-10 years and 100+ million to develop and lease up, not so much.

  8. #308
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    Colliers’ fourth-quarter 2018 office market report shows last year was the first year of positive office space absorption in Edmonton in the past four years. The majority of that absorption, 333,094 square feet, occurred downtown.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    There's greater profitability to be had, especially if a multiple underground parkade replaces a surface lot. But I say let's wait a few years until the rest of all this downtown construction takes a breather.
    An existing parking lot is guaranteed profit. A project that will take 5-10 years and 100+ million to develop and lease up, not so much.
    Exactly my point. Some people here don't fully acknowledge the risk associated with developing a site.

  10. #310
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    I would rather encourage more development instead of defending the existence of an Allard/Impark parking lot
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  11. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I would rather encourage more development instead of defending the existence of an Allard/Impark parking lot
    Encourage the same people that spawn the pigeon concentration camp at the former CN extended podium that was once abut to Epcor? That was how encouraged they were lol. Their overhead cost is next to nothing but they make incrediblet income, so why would they change that formula at present ? If our core was a hyper heated market, I would see this argument.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Breaking into the top 100 tech hubs... Edmonton! Also one of the main reasons we are seeing stronger than expected absorption Downtown.

    https://betakit.com/canadas-tech-hub...-show-promise/
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Breaking into the top 100 tech hubs... Edmonton! Also one of the main reasons we are seeing stronger than expected absorption Downtown.

    https://betakit.com/canadas-tech-hub...-show-promise/
    Sometimes it surprises me a lot that Calgary isn't more of a tech hub. They have allegedly 10+ million sq ft of vacant office space, and a lot of that is class A. Lots of young people with higher education in technical IT fields. Are startups afraid of being pushed out if/when the next oil boom comes around?
    Twenty one, thirty one, and seven twenty-seven.

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    It's the U of A (and NAIT too). Edmonton has the available talent and office vacancies.

    Oh, and success stories ... Bioware anyone?
    ... gobsmacked

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    ^U of A is a big part of it. Calgary is certainly trying though.
    www.decl.org

  16. #316

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    ^True - got New World Interactive (maker of Insurgency) recently:

    https://calgaryherald.com/business/l...for-new-studio

  17. #317

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    Another factor that could make Edmonton even more prominent is the fact that we have the nanno research centre which, during construction phases, was one of only 6 centres in the world. Along with bio med advancement built up...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Summary :

    The entire Edmonton office market recorded 50,179 sq. ft. of positive net absorption in Q1 2019.

    The amount of sublease space available in Edmonton decreased by over 25% in Q1 2019 compared to the previous quarter.

    The Edmonton office market added 20,696 sq. ft. of new supply in Q1 2019. This is a significant decrease from the previous quarter when there was 675,215 sq. ft. added.

    http://www.cbre.ca/EN/o/edmonton/Pag...t-reports.aspx
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Some big news for Downtown:


    @ChadBoddez
    Proud to have Jobber as a client and to complete 3 floors of office space with them at the 103 Street Centre with Epic Realty Partners / AIMCo in Edmonton, Alberta!
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Summary :

    The entire Edmonton office market recorded 50,179 sq. ft. of positive net absorption in Q1 2019.

    The amount of sublease space available in Edmonton decreased by over 25% in Q1 2019 compared to the previous quarter.

    The Edmonton office market added 20,696 sq. ft. of new supply in Q1 2019. This is a significant decrease from the previous quarter when there was 675,215 sq. ft. added.

    http://www.cbre.ca/EN/o/edmonton/Pag...t-reports.aspx



    Top_Dag loves the shameless roosterism.

    Whoop-de-doo !

    Big f*cken deal.

    When they are practically giving it away.

    It's like a contractor buying work just to keep the lights on for a few more months.

    Doing it for a loss drags the whole industry down.

    Not up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Some big news for Downtown:


    @ChadBoddez
    Proud to have Jobber as a client and to complete 3 floors of office space with them at the 103 Street Centre with Epic Realty Partners / AIMCo in Edmonton, Alberta!
    Aurora Cannabis is also taking two floors in the same building: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update...9904780693504/
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  22. #322
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    Indeed. They are moving from the Jaffer building on 104st.
    www.decl.org

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  23. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Summary :

    The entire Edmonton office market recorded 50,179 sq. ft. of positive net absorption in Q1 2019.

    The amount of sublease space available in Edmonton decreased by over 25% in Q1 2019 compared to the previous quarter.

    The Edmonton office market added 20,696 sq. ft. of new supply in Q1 2019. This is a significant decrease from the previous quarter when there was 675,215 sq. ft. added.

    http://www.cbre.ca/EN/o/edmonton/Pag...t-reports.aspx



    Top_Dag loves the shameless roosterism.

    Whoop-de-doo !

    Big f*cken deal.

    When they are practically giving it away.

    It's like a contractor buying work just to keep the lights on for a few more months.

    Doing it for a loss drags the whole industry down.

    Not up.
    ?... OK, What would be your remedy?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  24. #324
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    ^
    dawgs don't have remedies. they just enjoy p!$$ing on everything they can.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^
    dawgs don't have remedies. they just enjoy p!$$ing on everything they can.
    Best response in a long time.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridgeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^
    dawgs don't have remedies. they just enjoy p!$$ing on everything they can.
    Best response in a long time.......
    I'll second that... altho I was glad for the alternate definition of "roosterism", up to then I thought the best example was nick-naming yourself Top_Dawg...

  27. #327

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    OUCH...the kettle just turned into dust!
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  28. #328
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  29. #329

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    Ah, the good old "world class argument. If you want someone to take you seriously, just sprinkle "world class" throughout.

    “There is a flight to quality,” says Ian O’Donnell, executive director of the Downtown Business Association. “There’s a pent-up demand for institutional quality, world-class quality office space.”

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    Difficult to take that article seriously (as it is difficult to take almost anything David Staples writes seriously) when there is nary a mention of the potential for storm clouds in the form of UCP-induced austerity.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  31. #331

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    nothing like fluff pieces from David Staples interviewing C2Es most prolific poster (almost double the post count of anyone in the last 5 years)

  32. #332

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    ^He represents the DBA. Zero to do with C2E
    www.decl.org

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    Difficult to take that article seriously (as it is difficult to take almost anything David Staples writes seriously) when there is nary a mention of the potential for storm clouds in the form of UCP-induced austerity.
    Does Staples just regurgitate the same article year after year ? What a fluff piece. Reminds me of the types of articles you see in small town newspapers like the Kelowna Courier or Vernon Morning Star.

    Cities where the downtown has "made it" don't have articles like this published.

  34. #334
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    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  36. #336
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    I think you missed my point Ken.
    www.decl.org

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  37. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    What's wrong with writing a fluff piece about our downtown core? I regularly read far more irrelevant articles in the Journal. God forbid the local daily writes something positive about our key business district....
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  38. #338
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    -Flight to quality
    -Jobber expansion
    -Aurora HQ/expansion
    -tenant market, ie. new entrants to Downtown
    -positive absorption
    -bucking the Alberta trend

    ...but no, let's not write anything...
    www.decl.org

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  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    Really Ken what is all your negativity about anyway? Four new office towers in the last 10 years is a far more relevant stat. Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I think you missed my point Ken.
    and you mine.

    so between us maybe there's a reasonably balanced perspective that can celebrate the good and still recognize that it's still in the minority and we have a long way to go.

    don't get me wrong, we've come a long way already even if it's been and still is a lot of two steps forward and one step back but there is no way downtown edmonton has yet "arrived".

    if someone from here or from elsewhere was to walk both sides of every street and every avenue within dba's boundaries and grade them excellent, good, fair, poor, fail on a scale of 4, 3, 2, 1 and 0, i would love to see what average/mean scores would be.

    i might even take a day off and do that walk with you if you want.

    or maybe that could be the summer task for dba's mba student this year?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  41. #341

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    -Flight to quality
    -Aurora HQ/expansion...
    While Edmonton is "nominally" the HQ, most of the executives are in Vancouver. I agree things have improved though.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    Really Ken what is all your negativity about anyway? Four new office towers in the last 10 years is a far more relevant stat. Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary.
    now now glen...

    i did one of those four and most people thought i should be committed to alberta hospital for even thinking about it.

    and i was a supporter of the other three.

    and i spent a great deal of time working on the closure of the municipal airport knowing it would spur more development and more height and better design for residential as well as office towers.

    and i'm not sniping from the sidelines - no one has more at stake personally or corporately, at least proportionately, in the ultimate success of our downtown than i do. it's pretty fair to say i'm "all in" on this one.

    so yes, sometimes i just like to be contrary but most times i think i know what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. and that usually entails a strong dose of reality and a lot of hard work and commitment from a workforce sorely lacking in rainbow unicorns surviving on a diet of fluff.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  43. #343

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    Ken, I don't think the article tried to say that CBD has 'arrived', unless I misread the article (lord knows Staples isn't the best writer). Was it a booster article? Yes it was but there is (finally) some good news around what's happening in the core so I really don't understand why we have to complain when the first article comes out celebrating this fact.

    In my humble opinion, one of the things holding Edmonton back is our inability to pat ourselves on the back and (cue the gasp) even inflate our achievements a bit. Let's get some damn swagger in this town and stop apologizing for it!
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  44. #344

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    Here's a comparable article on East Village - a lot more "substance" to it, re what is working, what isn't, what needs to be done, halfway through the 20 year build:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ress-1.4888504

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    ^^^ Ken, if you want a walk-about buddy I'm almost always walking around downtown in the quest of loosing a bit of weight, fit bit and all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    Really Ken what is all your negativity about anyway? Four new office towers in the last 10 years is a far more relevant stat. Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary.
    now now glen...

    i did one of those four and most people thought i should be committed to alberta hospital for even thinking about it.

    and i was a supporter of the other three.

    and i spent a great deal of time working on the closure of the municipal airport knowing it would spur more development and more height and better design for residential as well as office towers.

    and i'm not sniping from the sidelines - no one has more at stake personally or corporately, at least proportionately, in the ultimate success of our downtown than i do. it's pretty fair to say i'm "all in" on this one.

    so yes, sometimes i just like to be contrary but most times i think i know what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. and that usually entails a strong dose of reality and a lot of hard work and commitment from a workforce sorely lacking in rainbow unicorns surviving on a diet of fluff.
    What needs to be done?
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  47. #347

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    I have no idea what needs to be done.

    However I’d say there is huge opportunity in many places to make improvements to how the City is portrayed to the world.

    Some poor bureaucrat was assigned the task to write this:


    Locating, Building and Operating in Edmonton



    Edmonton offers industrial developers the most diverse range of industrial land opportunities within the Greater Edmonton region. Its industrial land capacity of over 15,000 gross acres provides timely development opportunity to meet all needs.

    Operating costs in Edmonton are some of the most competitive in North America with low property taxes and excellent urban services.

    Access to a young, motivated and skilled labour pool of nearly 700,000 within the Greater Edmonton region ensures industry has the skills it needs to be successful.

    Outstanding infrastructure supports industrial operations and helps them to easily move supplies in and goods out to market.”

    https://www.edmonton.ca/business_eco...-edmonton.aspx

    Google:

    why locate in edmonton

    why move your business to edmonton

    why move to edmonton

    benefits to relocating a business in Edmonton



    to see what that search turns up.




    Now compare all that enthusiasm you find to that of Makeda Waterman (“Writer and travel enthusiast with a love for sunsets, good food, family and friends”) as she writes about Edmonton in this article:




    Moving To Edmonton From Toronto Was The Best Decision Of My Life

    HuffPost Canada

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/makeda...fe_a_23008203/







    Zootopia Movie 2016 - Funny Sloth Scene - YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmyATAYsNs
    Last edited by KC; 29-05-2019 at 06:26 PM.

  48. #348

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    I know that some of you can't stand fluff articles but we need those from time to time to give Edmontonians morale a boost.

    If you think Edmonton is bad, Calgary is worse, they have been spewing fluff for decades.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    -Flight to quality
    -Jobber expansion
    -Aurora HQ/expansion
    -tenant market, ie. new entrants to Downtown
    -positive absorption
    -bucking the Alberta trend

    ...but no, let's not write anything...
    Exactly. There's a looooot of haters throwing shade on this forum.

  50. #350

    Default

    ^ Definitely. Meanwhile people like Ken and you are actually doing positive things for the city, so kudos to both of you. I'm for more cheerleading and less sh**ting on everything.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  51. #351

    Default

    Every city has its problems.



    Issues with Toronto subway raise questions about city’s position as major hub - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

    ““We have built the wrong transit in the last 20 years,” said Haider, adding that people have been calling for a relief line for decades.”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4007419/t...portation-hub/


    In one hour, Toronto drivers blocked this downtown intersection at virtually every red light | The Star

    “In two hours last Thursday, we saw 92 red-light cycles at the intersection of Bay and Richmond Sts. Of those, 71 ended with a northbound vehicle either in the intersection or stopped on the pedestrian crosswalk.
    In the busier first hour of the Star’s video, from 4 to 5 p.m., 45 of 47 cycles ended with a blocked intersection.”


    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...red-light.html
    Last edited by KC; 30-05-2019 at 09:09 AM.

  52. #352

    Default

    what does this have to do with downtown office vacancies?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  53. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    Really Ken what is all your negativity about anyway? Four new office towers in the last 10 years is a far more relevant stat. Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary.
    now now glen...

    i did one of those four and most people thought i should be committed to alberta hospital for even thinking about it.

    and i was a supporter of the other three.

    and i spent a great deal of time working on the closure of the municipal airport knowing it would spur more development and more height and better design for residential as well as office towers.

    and i'm not sniping from the sidelines - no one has more at stake personally or corporately, at least proportionately, in the ultimate success of our downtown than i do. it's pretty fair to say i'm "all in" on this one.

    so yes, sometimes i just like to be contrary but most times i think i know what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. and that usually entails a strong dose of reality and a lot of hard work and commitment from a workforce sorely lacking in rainbow unicorns surviving on a diet of fluff.
    What needs to be done?
    okay... here's a quick primer:

    our sidewalks should be walkable - the condition of most of them is pretty bad.

    our tree grates should have trees in them or be removed and too many are in the same shape as our sidewalks.

    our directional signage needs to be updated (how many years have the "pilot" signs been in place?).

    we still need to do a better job of eliminating graffiti (see above re directional signage).

    we need to look at our traffic light synchronization so that it works for pedestrians and we need to shorten their cycles so you don't stand on the corner in march getting frostbite waiting for the light to change while there isn't a car for blocks.

    we need to pick street lights and street furniture etc. that are consistent and maintain them (which includes stocking replacement parts and pieces).

    we need to stop doing things "after the fact" - i.e. the hand wound winter lighting on those new poles that are so obviously "tacked on" and that should have been part of the original spec.

    we need to make sure transportation stops using our sidewalks for permanent storage for traffic cones and barriers.

    we need to make sure construction is coordinated and lane closures get more than timber barricades and temporary fencing that attract and retain debris and sand.

    we need to ensure that lane closures are kept to a minimum (not giving up three lanes for multi-years when the work should be restricted to two).

    we need to make it easy enough to secure changes of use so that that process doesn't contribute to storefronts remaining vacant.

    we need to make it illegal to take the glazing that the development permits insisted on and cover it with life-style vinyl graphics.

    for those parks which have water features, we should make sure those features actually get water from april to october.

    we need to reinstitute downtown as a "free" transit zone between 9:30 and 3:30 on all transit, not just lrt.

    we need to allow "pop-up" changes of use without requiring full development permit changes of use and we should allow them not to have to meet code other than fire and life-safety issues.

    we need to cut the grass where we have it and clean the sidewalks and clean the streets.

    we need to get rid of temporary signs that are there forever and we need to revisit the seeming exclusion of vinyl from bylaw enforcement (not to single out anyone like the nw corner of jasper and 100th ).

    we need to ensure our crosswalks are walkable and not hazards for the visually impaired (not to single out a particular intersection like 104 ave and 101 street ).

    we need to pay attention to the visual aspects of our gateway entries (which includes the 97th street bridge but also the low level bridge and bellamy road and grierson hill...).

    we need to keep taxes post-demolition the same as they were pre-demolition so there isn't an incentive to demolish just for the sake of demolishing (not to single out the bank of montreal building as that historically also includes much of the warehouse district and a couple of stretches of jasper avenue).

    we need to walk around with our eyes open and pay attention to how it should be better and to think about how to do that instead of simply accepting.

    we need to make decisions and stick with them instead of picking at scabs and waffling back and forth for months or years or decades whether it's a farmer's market or the city centre airport.

    yes, this is edmonton but that doesn't mean everything needs to be accepted as "good enough" instead of being pushed to be better. if that constitutes "negativity" then i can accept that and say we need more of it, not less. we need to move past the point where the good things that are taking place are taking place in spite of what's going on around them and get to point where they are supported by what's going on around them.
    Last edited by kcantor; 30-05-2019 at 11:13 AM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  54. #354

    Default

    Nonsense. People don't care about any of that stuff. Just put up some (unfinished) light standards and some fancy sidewalks and people will flock to downtown. </snark>

    How about we insist that new developments actually open onto the streets instead of looking inward like the ice district does? It does nothing to enliven 104 ave, 103 ave or 102 street, In fact, the actually helps kill them because there's no "there" there. It's designed to get people into it's confines and not connect with the rest of downtown.

  55. #355
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    Have you been there? All faces have fronting windows, CRUs, the entrance to the JW, and other potential activation points.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Nonsense. People don't care about any of that stuff. Just put up some (unfinished) light standards and some fancy sidewalks and people will flock to downtown. </snark>

    How about we insist that new developments actually open onto the streets instead of looking inward like the ice district does? It does nothing to enliven 104 ave, 103 ave or 102 street, In fact, the actually helps kill them because there's no "there" there. It's designed to get people into it's confines and not connect with the rest of downtown.
    Almost like the concept in Casino designs - build them in a way no one can ever find a door to get out let alone leave the property.

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    Really Ken what is all your negativity about anyway? Four new office towers in the last 10 years is a far more relevant stat. Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary.
    now now glen...

    i did one of those four and most people thought i should be committed to alberta hospital for even thinking about it.

    and i was a supporter of the other three.

    and i spent a great deal of time working on the closure of the municipal airport knowing it would spur more development and more height and better design for residential as well as office towers.

    and i'm not sniping from the sidelines - no one has more at stake personally or corporately, at least proportionately, in the ultimate success of our downtown than i do. it's pretty fair to say i'm "all in" on this one.

    so yes, sometimes i just like to be contrary but most times i think i know what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. and that usually entails a strong dose of reality and a lot of hard work and commitment from a workforce sorely lacking in rainbow unicorns surviving on a diet of fluff.
    What needs to be done?
    okay... here's a quick primer:

    our sidewalks should be walkable - the condition of most of them is pretty bad.

    our tree grates should have trees in them or be removed and too many are in the same shape as our sidewalks.

    our directional signage needs to be updated (how many years have the "pilot" signs been in place?).

    we still need to do a better job of eliminating graffiti (see above re directional signage).

    we need to look at our traffic light synchronization so that it works for pedestrians and we need to shorten their cycles so you don't stand on the corner in march getting frostbite waiting for the light to change while there isn't a car for blocks.

    we need to pick street lights and street furniture etc. that are consistent and maintain them (which includes stocking replacement parts and pieces).

    we need to stop doing things "after the fact" - i.e. the hand wound winter lighting on those new poles that are so obviously "tacked on" and that should have been part of the original spec.

    we need to make sure transportation stops using our sidewalks for permanent storage for traffic cones and barriers.

    we need to make sure construction is coordinated and lane closures get more than timber barricades and temporary fencing that attract and retain debris and sand.

    we need to ensure that lane closures are kept to a minimum (not giving up three lanes for multi-years when the work should be restricted to two).

    we need to make it easy enough to secure changes of use so that that process doesn't contribute to storefronts remaining vacant.

    we need to make it illegal to take the glazing that the development permits insisted on and cover it with life-style vinyl graphics.

    for those parks which have water features, we should make sure those features actually get water from april to october.

    we need to reinstitute downtown as a "free" transit zone between 9:30 and 3:30 on all transit, not just lrt.

    we need to allow "pop-up" changes of use without requiring full development permit changes of use and we should allow them not to have to meet code other than fire and life-safety issues.

    we need to cut the grass where we have it and clean the sidewalks and clean the streets.

    we need to get rid of temporary signs that are there forever and we need to revisit the seeming exclusion of vinyl from bylaw enforcement (not to single out anyone like the nw corner of jasper and 100th ).

    we need to ensure our crosswalks are walkable and not hazards for the visually impaired (not to single out a particular intersection like 104 ave and 101 street ).

    we need to pay attention to the visual aspects of our gateway entries (which includes the 97th street bridge but also the low level bridge and bellamy road and grierson hill...).

    we need to keep taxes post-demolition the same as they were pre-demolition so there isn't an incentive to demolish just for the sake of demolishing (not to single out the bank of montreal building as that historically also includes much of the warehouse district and a couple of stretches of jasper avenue).

    we need to walk around with our eyes open and pay attention to how it should be better and to think about how to do that instead of simply accepting.

    we need to make decisions and stick with them instead of picking at scabs and waffling back and forth for months or years or decades whether it's a farmer's market or the city centre airport.

    yes, this is edmonton but that doesn't mean everything needs to be accepted as "good enough" instead of being pushed to be better. if that constitutes "negativity" then i can accept that and say we need more of it, not less. we need to move past the point where the good things that are taking place are taking place in spite of what's going on around them and get to point where they are supported by what's going on around them.
    I wish you were on Council.

  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    Really Ken what is all your negativity about anyway? Four new office towers in the last 10 years is a far more relevant stat. Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary.
    now now glen...

    i did one of those four and most people thought i should be committed to alberta hospital for even thinking about it.

    and i was a supporter of the other three.

    and i spent a great deal of time working on the closure of the municipal airport knowing it would spur more development and more height and better design for residential as well as office towers.

    and i'm not sniping from the sidelines - no one has more at stake personally or corporately, at least proportionately, in the ultimate success of our downtown than i do. it's pretty fair to say i'm "all in" on this one.

    so yes, sometimes i just like to be contrary but most times i think i know what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. and that usually entails a strong dose of reality and a lot of hard work and commitment from a workforce sorely lacking in rainbow unicorns surviving on a diet of fluff.
    What needs to be done?
    okay... here's a quick primer:

    our sidewalks should be walkable - the condition of most of them is pretty bad.

    our tree grates should have trees in them or be removed and too many are in the same shape as our sidewalks.

    our directional signage needs to be updated (how many years have the "pilot" signs been in place?).

    we still need to do a better job of eliminating graffiti (see above re directional signage).

    we need to look at our traffic light synchronization so that it works for pedestrians and we need to shorten their cycles so you don't stand on the corner in march getting frostbite waiting for the light to change while there isn't a car for blocks.

    we need to pick street lights and street furniture etc. that are consistent and maintain them (which includes stocking replacement parts and pieces).

    we need to stop doing things "after the fact" - i.e. the hand wound winter lighting on those new poles that are so obviously "tacked on" and that should have been part of the original spec.

    we need to make sure transportation stops using our sidewalks for permanent storage for traffic cones and barriers.

    we need to make sure construction is coordinated and lane closures get more than timber barricades and temporary fencing that attract and retain debris and sand.

    we need to ensure that lane closures are kept to a minimum (not giving up three lanes for multi-years when the work should be restricted to two).

    we need to make it easy enough to secure changes of use so that that process doesn't contribute to storefronts remaining vacant.

    we need to make it illegal to take the glazing that the development permits insisted on and cover it with life-style vinyl graphics.

    for those parks which have water features, we should make sure those features actually get water from april to october.

    we need to reinstitute downtown as a "free" transit zone between 9:30 and 3:30 on all transit, not just lrt.

    we need to allow "pop-up" changes of use without requiring full development permit changes of use and we should allow them not to have to meet code other than fire and life-safety issues.

    we need to cut the grass where we have it and clean the sidewalks and clean the streets.

    we need to get rid of temporary signs that are there forever and we need to revisit the seeming exclusion of vinyl from bylaw enforcement (not to single out anyone like the nw corner of jasper and 100th ).

    we need to ensure our crosswalks are walkable and not hazards for the visually impaired (not to single out a particular intersection like 104 ave and 101 street ).

    we need to pay attention to the visual aspects of our gateway entries (which includes the 97th street bridge but also the low level bridge and bellamy road and grierson hill...).

    we need to keep taxes post-demolition the same as they were pre-demolition so there isn't an incentive to demolish just for the sake of demolishing (not to single out the bank of montreal building as that historically also includes much of the warehouse district and a couple of stretches of jasper avenue).

    we need to walk around with our eyes open and pay attention to how it should be better and to think about how to do that instead of simply accepting.

    we need to make decisions and stick with them instead of picking at scabs and waffling back and forth for months or years or decades whether it's a farmer's market or the city centre airport.

    yes, this is edmonton but that doesn't mean everything needs to be accepted as "good enough" instead of being pushed to be better. if that constitutes "negativity" then i can accept that and say we need more of it, not less. we need to move past the point where the good things that are taking place are taking place in spite of what's going on around them and get to point where they are supported by what's going on around them.
    I wish you were on Council.
    Seconded.

    Ken would extend Mandel's 'No More Crap' mantra to the entire City.

  59. #359

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    To be fair you can make those comments of any city's urban core.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  60. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    To be fair you can make those comments of any city's urban core.
    no, you can't.

    while you can say all of those comments need to be addressed in any city's urban core and you would be correct, that's not the same as saying that they aren't addressed in any other city's urban core either which is what you seem to be implying.

    it's not about what should be done, it's about whether it is being done or not. and from personal experience it is being done - and successfully - in many places and it's not yet being done successfully here.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  61. #361
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    For Ken, Not council. Administration is where you need to be.
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

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    Quote Originally Posted by booster View Post
    For Ken, Not council. Administration is where you need to be.
    no thanks, I enjoy what i'm doing too much to stop and i enjoy doing it in edmonton. this is still a city where anyone can make a difference if they're prepared to put in the work that's required to accomplish things and change things (the first step being to recognize that change is really badly needed).

    i believe everyone on council wants to do the right thing even though we may disagree on what constitutes the right thing. the biggest problems they face are being overwhelmed with too much information, too much process and the system's requirement that they need to provide equal time and attention to stupid as to smart.

    i work with many in administration over and above my work requirements on numerous panels and sessions committees and i believe that most of them also want to do the right thing even though we may also disagree on what constitutes the right thing. for the most part they are bright intelligent people hampered by structure and process and confined work silos that impede as much or more than they facilitate, all the while having to deal with council as well as with smart and with stupid.

    in both cases, i have been happy to provide kudos where due and invariably found them well received. in both cases i have also been happy to provide the same criticisms and suggestions as i often posit here and, for the most part, found them to just as well received. if we don't all do that, how can we expect them to know that we even care and what it is we care about? as long as it's constructively done, it shouldn't be perceived as being negative.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  63. #363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Have you been there? All faces have fronting windows, CRUs, the entrance to the JW, and other potential activation points.
    Arena - Vinyl coverings. Door that is unused unless function ongoing and most people use other entrances. Directly south, the back end of the "winter garden" . Lots of interaction there.

    Casino. Door - People go in for hours. Hardly any interaction.

    There's much, much more interaction to be going on at the plaza than the streets. Everything is designed to funnel you into the plaza.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly. There are plenty of articles about Toronto's CBD rebirth, Vancouver's unexpected office boom and Chicago's redefining what luxury is.
    and comparing what's taking place in those markets and how it's taking place to what's taking place here and how it's taking place here is also immaterial fluff. a total of only four new office towers in almost four decades and we still have vacancy rates of 14 - 16%? in what world is that defying economics?

    furthermore, david's article, as Medwards and 240GLT pointed out, was not about those markets. it was about edmonton's downtown market. and it was fluff, despite some of the encouraging things happening downtown.

    and writing fluff will do very little to address those many, many things that still need to be addressed before edmonton's downtown can be discussed in the same light as toronto's or vancouver's or chicago's. and david at least hinted at that when he summed up by saying we'll hopefully see what he's talking when the massive construction disruption finally starts to come to an end not today but in about 2 years (although this is Edmonton after all and that 2 years is as likely to be 6 as 2 ).
    Really Ken what is all your negativity about anyway? Four new office towers in the last 10 years is a far more relevant stat. Sometimes I think you just like to be contrary.
    now now glen...

    i did one of those four and most people thought i should be committed to alberta hospital for even thinking about it.

    and i was a supporter of the other three.

    and i spent a great deal of time working on the closure of the municipal airport knowing it would spur more development and more height and better design for residential as well as office towers.

    and i'm not sniping from the sidelines - no one has more at stake personally or corporately, at least proportionately, in the ultimate success of our downtown than i do. it's pretty fair to say i'm "all in" on this one.

    so yes, sometimes i just like to be contrary but most times i think i know what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. and that usually entails a strong dose of reality and a lot of hard work and commitment from a workforce sorely lacking in rainbow unicorns surviving on a diet of fluff.
    What needs to be done?
    okay... here's a quick primer:

    our sidewalks should be walkable - the condition of most of them is pretty bad.

    our tree grates should have trees in them or be removed and too many are in the same shape as our sidewalks.

    our directional signage needs to be updated (how many years have the "pilot" signs been in place?).

    we still need to do a better job of eliminating graffiti (see above re directional signage).

    we need to look at our traffic light synchronization so that it works for pedestrians and we need to shorten their cycles so you don't stand on the corner in march getting frostbite waiting for the light to change while there isn't a car for blocks.

    we need to pick street lights and street furniture etc. that are consistent and maintain them (which includes stocking replacement parts and pieces).

    we need to stop doing things "after the fact" - i.e. the hand wound winter lighting on those new poles that are so obviously "tacked on" and that should have been part of the original spec.

    we need to make sure transportation stops using our sidewalks for permanent storage for traffic cones and barriers.

    we need to make sure construction is coordinated and lane closures get more than timber barricades and temporary fencing that attract and retain debris and sand.

    we need to ensure that lane closures are kept to a minimum (not giving up three lanes for multi-years when the work should be restricted to two).

    we need to make it easy enough to secure changes of use so that that process doesn't contribute to storefronts remaining vacant.

    we need to make it illegal to take the glazing that the development permits insisted on and cover it with life-style vinyl graphics.

    for those parks which have water features, we should make sure those features actually get water from april to october.

    we need to reinstitute downtown as a "free" transit zone between 9:30 and 3:30 on all transit, not just lrt.

    we need to allow "pop-up" changes of use without requiring full development permit changes of use and we should allow them not to have to meet code other than fire and life-safety issues.

    we need to cut the grass where we have it and clean the sidewalks and clean the streets.

    we need to get rid of temporary signs that are there forever and we need to revisit the seeming exclusion of vinyl from bylaw enforcement (not to single out anyone like the nw corner of jasper and 100th ).

    we need to ensure our crosswalks are walkable and not hazards for the visually impaired (not to single out a particular intersection like 104 ave and 101 street ).

    we need to pay attention to the visual aspects of our gateway entries (which includes the 97th street bridge but also the low level bridge and bellamy road and grierson hill...).

    we need to keep taxes post-demolition the same as they were pre-demolition so there isn't an incentive to demolish just for the sake of demolishing (not to single out the bank of montreal building as that historically also includes much of the warehouse district and a couple of stretches of jasper avenue).

    we need to walk around with our eyes open and pay attention to how it should be better and to think about how to do that instead of simply accepting.

    we need to make decisions and stick with them instead of picking at scabs and waffling back and forth for months or years or decades whether it's a farmer's market or the city centre airport.

    yes, this is edmonton but that doesn't mean everything needs to be accepted as "good enough" instead of being pushed to be better. if that constitutes "negativity" then i can accept that and say we need more of it, not less. we need to move past the point where the good things that are taking place are taking place in spite of what's going on around them and get to point where they are supported by what's going on around them.
    You may not be interested in a bureaucratic role but it would be interested to see considering your experience if the city would hire you as a consultant. That said, it's easier to observe and speak then it is to employ. While staying within the city's budget for these things; could they be done through increasing efficiencies and restructuring? I am genuinely curious, I don't know jack about this stuff when it comes to downtown Edmonton.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

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