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Thread: Bonnie Doon Shopping Centre | Discussion

  1. #201

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    Strathcona Home Depot is a ten minute drive away.
    Only 15-17 minutes to Meadows.
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  2. #202
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    Driving is one thing. But if Bonnie Doon wants to transform into an urbanista wet dream they should include onsite retailers such as a hardware store, grocery, liquor store, gym, etc.
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  3. #203

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    From Bonnie Doon you have quite a distance to 4 Home Depot's. Prime spot for a competitor, right in the middle of teardown/renovation neighbourhoods.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  4. #204

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    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...related-infill

    I attended a by-invitation open house/preview of Bonnie Doon's plans the other evening (or at least their plans for making plans). Let's play a little game:

    How long has the Valley Line alignment been confirmed? - loooong time
    How many conversations has the CoE had about how citizens will get from the LRT stop to the Mall? How will the two integrate? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard simply asking them what their long term plans might someday be? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard about issues raised in this article? - 0

    The level of ineptitude is hard to fathom.

  5. #205
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    Who was conducting the meeting?

  6. #206

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    Morguard.

  7. #207

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    Infill better around malls, real estate folks say. Except they usually do a crappy design job, even at the best Western Canadian malls, IMO:
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...related-infill
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  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...related-infill

    I attended a by-invitation open house/preview of Bonnie Doon's plans the other evening (or at least their plans for making plans). Let's play a little game:

    How long has the Valley Line alignment been confirmed? - loooong time
    How many conversations has the CoE had about how citizens will get from the LRT stop to the Mall? How will the two integrate? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard simply asking them what their long term plans might someday be? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard about issues raised in this article? - 0

    The level of ineptitude is hard to fathom.
    Is the issue with the City not proposing rezoning of their land, or is it the Mall owner's issue by not approaching the City that they have a new concept? It's tough for the City to take a privately owned piece of land that isn't subdivided or have roads through it, and ask them to do something completely different, densify, add plaza/park space, or reduce parking or make new road / entry configurations.

    In most cases where a train line has been for a while, or is coming, the mall owner will approach the City for a rezoning application and propose something that demands its own mini "area plan" and long public consultations. Mall owners are notorious sticks in the mud in the urban design realm.
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  9. #209

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    The city should be doing blanket-rezoning of residential streets around the LRT corridor and stops, the mall can deal with their own rezoning.

    The city should be approaching major land owners about access to and through their properties when a major change like LRT occurs. There's opportunity for cooperation on lots of things: pedestrian over/underpasses,
    There can only be one.

  10. #210

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    ^One day.
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  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...related-infill

    I attended a by-invitation open house/preview of Bonnie Doon's plans the other evening (or at least their plans for making plans). Let's play a little game:

    How long has the Valley Line alignment been confirmed? - loooong time
    How many conversations has the CoE had about how citizens will get from the LRT stop to the Mall? How will the two integrate? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard simply asking them what their long term plans might someday be? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard about issues raised in this article? - 0

    The level of ineptitude is hard to fathom.
    Is the issue with the City not proposing rezoning of their land, or is it the Mall owner's issue by not approaching the City that they have a new concept? It's tough for the City to take a privately owned piece of land that isn't subdivided or have roads through it, and ask them to do something completely different, densify, add plaza/park space, or reduce parking or make new road / entry configurations.

    In most cases where a train line has been for a while, or is coming, the mall owner will approach the City for a rezoning application and propose something that demands its own mini "area plan" and long public consultations. Mall owners are notorious sticks in the mud in the urban design realm.
    Listen, I get it. Morguard is not blameless. But, of course, they are not ELECTED and EMPLOYED by the citizens of Edmonton to operate on their behalf. Didn't you just write somewhere about getting on Ben Hen for not considering this section of the Valley Line a corridor and zone appropriately in advance of construction? I have contacted employees of Morguard twice over the last year (not the right ones unfortunately) in order to begin talking about what the plan looks like. And I'm just a guy who lives nearby.

    It must be quite a work out carrying this much water for the city.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...related-infill

    I attended a by-invitation open house/preview of Bonnie Doon's plans the other evening (or at least their plans for making plans). Let's play a little game:

    How long has the Valley Line alignment been confirmed? - loooong time
    How many conversations has the CoE had about how citizens will get from the LRT stop to the Mall? How will the two integrate? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard simply asking them what their long term plans might someday be? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard about issues raised in this article? - 0

    The level of ineptitude is hard to fathom.
    Is the issue with the City not proposing rezoning of their land, or is it the Mall owner's issue by not approaching the City that they have a new concept? It's tough for the City to take a privately owned piece of land that isn't subdivided or have roads through it, and ask them to do something completely different, densify, add plaza/park space, or reduce parking or make new road / entry configurations.

    In most cases where a train line has been for a while, or is coming, the mall owner will approach the City for a rezoning application and propose something that demands its own mini "area plan" and long public consultations. Mall owners are notorious sticks in the mud in the urban design realm.
    Listen, I get it. Morguard is not blameless. But, of course, they are not ELECTED and EMPLOYED by the citizens of Edmonton to operate on their behalf. Didn't you just write somewhere about getting on Ben Hen for not considering this section of the Valley Line a corridor and zone appropriately in advance of construction? I have contacted employees of Morguard twice over the last year (not the right ones unfortunately) in order to begin talking about what the plan looks like. And I'm just a guy who lives nearby.

    It must be quite a work out carrying this much water for the city.
    For the Councillor it would be easier and with more results to go after small lots, to allow/zone for people to be able to assemble them, and proposed mixed-use or mid-rise apartments.
    Last edited by GenWhy?; 18-01-2018 at 11:22 AM.
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  13. #213

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    Why should "the councillor" assemble lots?

    Fine-grained redevelopment is better, just rezone the closest blocks to LRT stations for low-rise apartments, the next ring of blocks for all sorts of townhouses stacked, suited or otherwise, and let the market go to work.

    It's on a large block like the mall where more direct involvement is called for. Like requesting/requiring a mid-block all-hours pedestrian corridor through the site from the station to the neighbourhood to the west. You don't need to do that in a typical neighbourhood of small lots.
    There can only be one.

  14. #214

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    ^Precisely, both call for a different approach - the mall needs more direct intervention and coordination with Staff/owners to plan, but a Overall Area Plan or guidelines has to be in place, and Mr. Henderson and Staff knew the LRT would be here, so what's the plan and the hold up? Spend the 5 years making a Bonnie Doon Town Centre Plan (when the route was approved) or a LRT corridor plan. For years I've heard councillors and mayors talk about this approach of corridor rezoning. If you rezone the area around the station(s), then folks will develop as they gradually will, assemble lots to built larger structures, will build less parking if it's in the plan, more street-oriented townhomes if its in the plan, reduced setbacks... the mall presented I bet a lacklustre low density retail add-on where the Sears currently sits empty because that's the model, that's where things are currently at.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Infill better around malls, real estate folks say. Except they usually do a crappy design job, even at the best Western Canadian malls, IMO:
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...related-infill
    Of course, an existing mall on a new LRT line is the very best opportunity, said the authors. But a site with a grocery store, movie theatre and other commercial amenities with a good road connection and a bus terminal has greater appeal than an LRT station without shopping, they wrote.
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  17. #217
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    Some sketches of the mall overhaul.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...nnie-doon-mall

    This looks promising, but doesn't line up at all with the car-oriented big box renderings they've already released.

  18. #218
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    ^
    In the past, several Edmonton malls have been reluctant to work with the city on LRT stations, but Morguard is the opposite, seeing the station as a crucial component of the project. In Port Coquitlam, B.C., Morguard lobbied hard to have a station put in at a major mall, both so the mall could get more customers and the mass transit line could get more passengers. To entice the city, Morguard offered free land and a subsidy to the local government.

    It’s key that the train is running at ground level, Knowles says, as opposed to being elevated, which would greatly limit accessibility: “The feel of it would be totally different.”
    Bonnie Doon is better than Southgate and Kingsway Mall!

  19. #219

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    In the past, several Edmonton malls have been reluctant to work with the city on LRT stations, but Morguard is the opposite, seeing the station as a crucial component of the project. In Port Coquitlam, B.C., Morguard lobbied hard to have a station put in at a major mall, both so the mall could get more customers and the mass transit line could get more passengers. To entice the city, Morguard offered free land and a subsidy to the local government.
    Promising.... especially given that the LRT took up some of their parking spaces.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Bonnie Doon is better than Southgate and Kingsway Mall!
    With respect to LRT access, Southgate Mall is alright.

    Kingsway is laughable ( as is the whole Metro line ).

  21. #221
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    More like cryable. That sad.

  22. #222
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    Whatever they decide to do I'm sure the COE will go in right up over their heads and muck it all up for them.

  23. #223

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    I don't follow 100%. Coquitlam Centre did not lose a lot of parking, nor is the interaction with the SkyTrain that great at all at Lincoln Station and is no better or maybe worse than Southgate Station. It's also located in Coquitlam, not Port Coquitlam. So if Morguard is using Lincoln Station as an exemplary precedent of their inclusion of mass transit then I'm cautiously optimistic.
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  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Whatever they decide to do I'm sure the COE will go in right up over their heads and muck it all up for them.
    Well according to Morguard they did it right by putting the platform at grade. Go figure.
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  25. #225

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    ^To allow a more seamless integration of pedestrian, retail, transit connectivity.
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  26. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...related-infill

    I attended a by-invitation open house/preview of Bonnie Doon's plans the other evening (or at least their plans for making plans). Let's play a little game:

    How long has the Valley Line alignment been confirmed? - loooong time
    How many conversations has the CoE had about how citizens will get from the LRT stop to the Mall? How will the two integrate? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard simply asking them what their long term plans might someday be? - 0
    How many conversations has the CoE had with Morguard about issues raised in this article? - 0

    The level of ineptitude is hard to fathom.
    This is the same issue they had when they built the Grant MacEwan Campus except when it was too late
    This is the same issue they had with Southgate except when it was too late
    This is the same issue they had with Kingsway Mall except when it was too late

    the COE Planning Department will NEVER LEARN
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  27. #227
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    Rehosting the sketches from the Journal article.




    I'm skeptical if anything this great comes out of this... but man if this even turned out remotely close to these sketches it'd be a huge boon.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_Lloyd View Post
    but man if this even turned out remotely close to these sketches it'd be a huge boon.
    A Bonnie Doon boon, you might say. Hopefully soon.

  29. #229
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    Top_Dawg is hopeful.

    But highly skeptical as well.

    Top_Dawg envisions a train pulling up along side a big parking lot with a oversize Stitches store as backdrop.


  30. #230

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    Man, I would love to see such a design. Many other cities have proper TOD with high rise Condos integrated with shops, a mall and underground parking coupled with LRT.
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  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Top_Dawg envisions a train pulling up along side a big parking lot with a oversize Stitches store as backdrop.
    There is already a train sitting in a big parking lot with an oversize Stitches store as a backdrop.
    It's a mockup, but it's there.

  32. #232

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    Pretty pictures. Like a postcard from some alternate future universe where COE is a competent partner in transit oriented development.

    Standing at the LRT station of this urban utopia I turn my gaze east where a new twin arena was completed in 2019 (on the site of a formerly super-busy outdoor soccer/lacrosse field), a rinky dink playground was built as a sop to surrounding communities, and a sixty year old pool continues it's decline into decrepitude despite lots of opportunity to build a robust rec centre on the new train line as a way to service the thousands of new residents in what is arguably the largest residential infill development corridor in the city. How's that for planning?

  33. #233

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    Site Plan and possibly rezoning/permits by 2020-2022. They'll start with the easy stuff first. They are most likely pretty pictures until after 2030.
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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Top_Dawg is hopeful.

    But highly skeptical as well.

    Top_Dawg envisions a train pulling up along side a big parking lot with a oversize Stitches store as backdrop.

    Yeah, get ready to lift a leg, Dawg.
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  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Top_Dawg is hopeful.

    But highly skeptical as well.

    Top_Dawg envisions a train pulling up along side a big parking lot with a oversize Stitches store as backdrop.

    Yeah, get ready to lift a leg, Dawg.
    Lots of talk of a hardware store. You know what hardware store Edmonton does not have? Home Hardware.

    The renderings of the Bonnie Doon redevelopment reminds me of something...I think I've seen this somewhere before...something Sodosopa:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l242...vVYKEFDFhswhoo


  36. #236
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    These renders look great and would be awesome to see come to life. Now with that said, considering what I saw and posted before, I am not going to hold my breath about seeing any of this for at least another 10 years from now. If this idea actually makes it past the pretty picture phase then this could be a major improvement to the area. Right now all I see is a big big IF.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    These renders look great and would be awesome to see come to life. Now with that said, considering what I saw and posted before, I am not going to hold my breath about seeing any of this for at least another 10 years from now. If this idea actually makes it past the pretty picture phase then this could be a major improvement to the area. Right now all I see is a big big IF.
    At our community AGM last night, there was a report of the Bonnie Doon Connect initiative. They summarized what a lot of the commentary was. Almost everyone commented that the capilano mall redevelopment was the anti-example of what to do here. Good to read.

    They did have a timeline posted for the next steps, and I was a bit shocked at it.

    Concept Design - April-May 2018
    Zoning Regulations - May-Sep 2018
    Public Hearing with Council - Fall 2018.

    I think that's very ambitious. Especially if they're wanting to do what everyone is hoping for. If it's just capilano mall V2.0, then I guess that timeline is realistic.

  38. #238
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    If it goes to the Capilano Mall model it would be so very sad.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  39. #239
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    Very. I like the long walkway in the mall that I have traversed since childhood, walking through the bowling alley checking it out of course. The first time I went with my mom they still had human pin setters. I know, ancient. But anyway keeping an indoor long mall for our long nine month winter is important in Edmonchuk. Nice to run in out of the cold and hang out for a time, but then again Valley Line will be running to WEM before long. Where do you think people will be heading for the day.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 20-04-2018 at 04:42 PM.

  40. #240

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    Many new urban malls encompass both indoor and street orientated aspects.
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  41. #241
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    I've seen that at Crossiron, the mall stores have entrances from the parking lot too.

  42. #242

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    Examine Brentwood or Lougheed Town Centre's in Burnaby. Mind you the towers on those sites are huge compared to what will happen at Bonnie Doon, but it's an example of mall transformation around a train station in a Canadian city recently.
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  43. #243
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    Sign on the Bonnie Doon parking lot...


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    Tenant found for former Sears store in Bonnie Doon mall

    The company that owns Bonnie Doon Shopping Centre plans to announce the tenant that will move into the former Sears store in the next four to six weeks.

    The Sears store closed more than a year ago.

    The new tenant — focused on education and wellness — will draw more than 1,000 people per day to the mall, said Margaret Knowles, senior vice-president of development at Morguard Investments Ltd., the Toronto-area real estate company that owns the mall.

    The company has proposed to rezone the land the mall sits on and turn the area into a mixed-use, transit-oriented development that includes 6,000 new homes. That would take 20 to 30 years.

    Morguard's most recent proposal for the 12-hectare property and surrounding area divides the space into five districts:

    • Commercial district with possible office space;
    • Health and wellness district;
    • Boutique and "central park" district with retail;
    • Retail and entertainment district with a transit plaza, and;
    • Garden district with a residential focus.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...mall-1.4665905

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    Sounds like a gym. Maybe GoodLife.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Sign on the Bonnie Doon parking lot...

    Keep our mall ! Go build somewhere else !

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    ^you’re one of a few who actually care, and yet, your lack of several million dollars makes that meaningless. I am all for seeing that aging dump redeveloped.

  48. #248
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    If the mall goes away but we get a the development that is proposed in post #227 I would be pretty happy bout that. If they maintain a shopping mall in the "Marche Bonnie Doon" with exterior accessed businesses, underground parking and LRT access, this could be an excellent TOD.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  49. #249

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    You know I'm trying to figure out how a sign that probably costs a pretty good dollar made it from the idea table, through marketing, sign off from management of the developer, the sign shop and the people that set it up and they missed the incorrect spelling of possibly...

    ...does no one pay attention to detail anymore?
    Last edited by KenL2; 28-05-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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  50. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Top_Dawg is hopeful.

    But highly skeptical as well.

    Top_Dawg envisions a train pulling up along side a big parking lot with a oversize Stitches store as backdrop.

    Yeah, get ready to lift a leg, Dawg.
    Lots of talk of a hardware store. You know what hardware store Edmonton does not have? Home Hardware.

    The renderings of the Bonnie Doon redevelopment reminds me of something...I think I've seen this somewhere before...something Sodosopa:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l242...vVYKEFDFhswhoo

    I don't think that Home hardware sets up shop in Big cities, their market seems to be smaller communities, almost every smaller community around Edmonton has one.
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  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenL2 View Post
    You know I'm trying to figure out how a sign that probably costs a pretty good dollar made it from the idea table, through marketing, sign off from management of the developer, the sign shop and the people that set it up and they missed the incorrect spelling of possibly...

    ...does no one pay attention to detail anymore?


    No kidding.

    Top_Dawg loves The Sun.

    These are the kinds of spelling and syntax errors you see in The Sun multiple times every day.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenL2 View Post
    You know I'm trying to figure out how a sign that probably costs a pretty good dollar made it from the idea table, through marketing, sign off from management of the developer, the sign shop and the people that set it up and they missed the incorrect spelling of possibly...

    ...does no one pay attention to detail anymore?
    I saw "Publicaly" but I don't even see possibly on the sign.

  53. #253
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    “Accessible” too.
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  54. #254
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    Plan is 6,000 residential units. Up to 93,000m2 of retail, office and commercial space. Number of different districts on site including a pedestrian focused boutique district with a unique central park in the center of the site. Parking for the development to be primarily underground. New streets to be added to the site - provides bicycle lanes and priority pedestrian access to the BD LRT stop.

    For reference, if the 93,000m2 was all retail, this would be larger than Southgate and Kingsway.

  55. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Sign on the Bonnie Doon parking lot...
    Keep our mall ! Go build somewhere else !
    lool, read the damn sign (you even quoted it!). They're adding retail.

    Bonnie Doon is a ridiculous waste of space. The thing is hideous. You get depressed just walking through it really fast.

  56. #256
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    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real...city-building/
    In Edmonton, commercial infill doubles as city building
    "Margaret Knowles, a vice-president with Mississauga-based Morguard, says her project in Bonnie Doon – a postwar suburb in central Edmonton – is a rare example in her career when a commercial-infill developer in Alberta gets to rebuild an entire city block into an urban village."
    posts randomly and infrequently

  57. #257
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Edmonton, Alberta
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    Now here is a crazy idea, but I wonder if this could work? I wonder if there could be room for the movie theater that was supposed to go into the ice district, to go into the proposed Bonnie Doon redevellopment?

  58. #258
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
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    7,357

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    My guess is, with the closure of Target and Sears, the upcoming LRT line, the mall is considering all viable options. A theater might work, not many are within walking distance of an LRT line.

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