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Thread: Support the troops?

  1. #1

    Default Support the troops?

    I image that they just grow back, don't they?

    Each Year, Veterans Affairs Makes Me Prove I Lost My Legs

    I have had my wheelchair taken away from me twice. First while in hospital due to lack of payment when DOD and VAC were in argument about who pays.

    The second was just last year when upon getting a new chair it was felt by VAC that I didn't get the appropriate paperwork -- which was a doctor's note saying "Due to transformal amputations, Paul Franklin needs a new wheelchair."

    During the recent Manulife lawsuit, I was approved of a pension but was not to receive it until a doctor confirmed my limb loss. This is something that has to be done every year presumably until age 65.

    My ex and I have separated and I obviously pay child support and help her out. Every year, VAC challenges that fact with an incredibly disturbing letter that implies that I am a dead beat, that asks if my child still lives, and what I do for them. In response, my ex has to write a horrible letter stating what I do.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/paul-fr...Canada+Alberta

  2. #2

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    Read this article

    The way we treat veterans is disgusting. "Here kill for us, all done killing? Fight for your meager cheque"

    Why anyone would want to enlist with horror stories like this is beyond me
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

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    I agree our veterans deserve better treatment then they're getting. Maybe we should spend less of that annual $23B on immigration and pony up some of that cash to those that deserve it.
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  4. #4

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    The cost of the Action Plan adverts would more than cover it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I agree our veterans deserve better treatment then they're getting. Maybe we should spend less of that annual $23B on immigration and pony up some of that cash to those that deserve it.
    I'd love to see where it says Canada spends 23 billion annually on immigration. Where? How?
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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    Just how petty can these bureaucrats get arguing over who pays for a wheel chair for a wounded veteran. There was nothing honourable about Fantino in his role of Defence Minister. He was about as much use as an elephant in a china shop. These injured soldiers need better access to all assistance out there. If they are prepared to lay their life down for this country the government should be prepared to help them when they need it.
    Last edited by Gemini; 15-02-2015 at 10:46 PM.
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  8. #8

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    But the Harper Government is arguing that...

    Government spends $700,000 fighting veterans’ class-action lawsuit
    By: The Canadian Press, Published on Wed Jan 28 2015

    In the government's statement of defence, federal lawyers argue Ottawa has no special obligation to those who’ve fought the country's wars and that it is unfair to bind the current government to promises made nearly a century ago by another prime minister.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...n-lawsuit.html
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 15-02-2015 at 10:16 PM.

  9. #9

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    Maybe we should just all ignore all the tax increases made by previous governments. Let's start with the GST. It's disgraceful to fight a lawsuit against the very people who fought for us. Next time there is a call for troops maybe the politicians should be on the front lines.
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    Our Government spends about $5B a year on our veterans. When one looks at the (roughly) Federal $260B annual budget, $5B is chump change.
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  11. #11

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    Cost of the ISIS mission to this point - $122 million.

    Number of Veterans Affairs offices closed by the Harper Government - 9

    Savings from closed offices - $4 million/year

    More Solders have died from Suicide than died in Afghanistan.

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    The group you identified above is the most single threat to Western civilization as we know it.They need to be utterly destroyed. Failure to recognize this fact and your living in la,la land.

    Veterans need our support this is true and this is not about partisan politics.
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  13. #13

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    Just pointing out how quickly we can come up with $122 million for that but can't come up with the $9 million to take care of the troops when the return.

    Also, greatest threat to western civilization? More people have been killed by drunk drivers than ISIS.

    Keep it in perspective.

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    There you go sticking up for ISIS again. I TOLD YOU SO

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Just pointing out how quickly we can come up with $122 million for that but can't come up with the $9 million to take care of the troops when the return.

    Also, greatest threat to western civilization? More people have been killed by drunk drivers than ISIS.

    Keep it in perspective.
    I should have edited that to read a threat to Global Civilization.
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  16. #16

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    How is that sticking up for ISIS? If you're going to send people into battle, you take care of them when they come back. It's as simple as that.

    They can come up with $1.2 million to ship Harper's limo to India but they're cutting back on care for veterans?

    They can come up with $25 million to re-brand the Museum of Civilization and they're cutting back on veterans?

    They can spend over $100 million on Action Plan advertising since 2009 but they're cutting back on veterans?

    $9 million is change that the government could find in their sofa cushions.

    ---

    Diarrhea killed 1.5 million people worldwide in 2012. ISIS is hardly the greatest threat to Global Civilization.

    Yes, they're a terrorist group and yes, they have killed many people but pretty much anyone, anywhere in the world has many more things that are more likely to kill them.

    ISIS doesn't even make the top 10 of threats world wide. That's not saying that we shouldn't be concerned about them and that we shouldn't take action against them. However, these sorts of groups are easier to com ant before they become a major threat. Half the people involved are former Iraq military personnel who were turned loose when the Americans decided to disband the Iraq armed forces and prevent former Ba'ath members from integrating back into society.

    Well trained military personnel with a grudge against the west. What could possibly go wrong?

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    The group you mentioned in your first sentence almost has Libya in its grasp.

    The trouble with Liberals is they are too soft on terrorism.
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    Better we fight them on their soil , than on ours.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How is that sticking up for ISIS? If you're going to send people into battle, you take care of them when they come back. It's as simple as that.

    They can come up with $1.2 million to ship Harper's limo to India but they're cutting back on care for veterans?

    They can come up with $25 million to re-brand the Museum of Civilization and they're cutting back on veterans?

    They can spend over $100 million on Action Plan advertising since 2009 but they're cutting back on veterans?

    $9 million is change that the government could find in their sofa cushions.

    ---

    Diarrhea killed 1.5 million people worldwide in 2012. ISIS is hardly the greatest threat to Global Civilization.

    Yes, they're a terrorist group and yes, they have killed many people but pretty much anyone, anywhere in the world has many more things that are more likely to kill them.

    ISIS doesn't even make the top 10 of threats world wide. That's not saying that we shouldn't be concerned about them and that we shouldn't take action against them. However, these sorts of groups are easier to com ant before they become a major threat. Half the people involved are former Iraq military personnel who were turned loose when the Americans decided to disband the Iraq armed forces and prevent former Ba'ath members from integrating back into society.

    Well trained military personnel with a grudge against the west. What could possibly go wrong?
    I see you have brought your 'ISIS is not a threat' up again. Not sure if you comparing 1.5 million cases of diarrhea with ISIS but it seems you have caught the verbal kind. I think you have to be a very naïve person to think that. ISIS is not only a threat to troops and everyone else living in the countries they operate in they are also a threat world wide. You seem to under estimate them at every turn. They are not only a threat but they are 'dirty' fighters. Do you think for one moment they would show any mercy on any troop they captured. If you had a relative in the military would you like to hear they had been captured by ISIS. Asking you that is a moot point, you seem to think they would be cuddled to death.
    Last edited by Gemini; 18-02-2015 at 10:44 AM.
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    ^ Typical Liberals eh Gemini? I'm sure you noticed Mulcare the other night in question period saying too Harper his war. I'm almost willing to say (not quite) that the NDP are soft allies of that terrorist group because they attack anything Harper does. The Liberals to their credit said they'd support Harper's initiative against that terror group. I support Harper in that too. Its not just Harper's War its a war facing all of us. And the Left here in Canada whine when they see the Kurds chopping off heads of this terror group. If anything they aught to be applauded. The terror group were talking about kills innocent people. Vehemently as it was, the Kurds did the right thing. The Kurds victims were prisoners of said Terror Group not innocent people. Lets keep that in perspective. What were supposed to treat them lightly? If anything we should arm the Kurds even further. Its sending a message saying an eye for an eye. This is serious business. Anyone that thinks this terror group is not a threat, needs to have their heads examined. Our troops are defending our values at home and abroad. They need our support on both fronts.
    Last edited by envaneo; 18-02-2015 at 12:53 PM.
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  21. #21

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    ^Trudeau wants to terrorists blankets, or as little kids call them 'blankies'. What a joke the federal opposition is when it comes to anything that matters.
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    ^ JT is supporting the first reading of Bill C-51 as do I, while the NDP leader for all intent of purpose might as well be a terrorist sympathizer.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How is that sticking up for ISIS? If you're going to send people into battle, you take care of them when they come back. It's as simple as that.

    They can come up with $1.2 million to ship Harper's limo to India but they're cutting back on care for veterans?

    They can come up with $25 million to re-brand the Museum of Civilization and they're cutting back on veterans?

    They can spend over $100 million on Action Plan advertising since 2009 but they're cutting back on veterans?

    $9 million is change that the government could find in their sofa cushions.

    ---

    Diarrhea killed 1.5 million people worldwide in 2012. ISIS is hardly the greatest threat to Global Civilization.

    Yes, they're a terrorist group and yes, they have killed many people but pretty much anyone, anywhere in the world has many more things that are more likely to kill them.

    ISIS doesn't even make the top 10 of threats world wide. That's not saying that we shouldn't be concerned about them and that we shouldn't take action against them. However, these sorts of groups are easier to com ant before they become a major threat. Half the people involved are former Iraq military personnel who were turned loose when the Americans decided to disband the Iraq armed forces and prevent former Ba'ath members from integrating back into society.

    Well trained military personnel with a grudge against the west. What could possibly go wrong?
    I see you have brought your 'ISIS is not a threat' up again. Not sure if you comparing 1.5 million cases of diarrhea with ISIS but it seems you have caught the verbal kind. I think you have to be a very naïve person to think that. ISIS is not only a threat to troops and everyone else living in the countries they operate in they are also a threat world wide. You seem to under estimate them at every turn. They are not only a threat but they are 'dirty' fighters. Do you think for one moment they would show any mercy on any troop they captured. If you had a relative in the military would you like to hear they had been captured by ISIS. Asking you that is a moot point, you seem to think they would be cuddled to death.
    I'd like you to point out where I say ISIS is not a threat. Go ahead, I'll wait...

    Done now?

    ISIS has ~20-30,000 fighters. The idea that this is the single, greatest threat to civilization is ridiculous. That's about the population of Spruce Grove. How much of a threat would that pose to the entire world?

    Meanwhile, as I pointed out, you are much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed in almost any other manner you can imagine.

    You remind me of the talking heads on Faux "News" that were screaming how everyone was going to die from Ebola a few months ago.

    Keep things in perspective.


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    kk, I will be thinking of you the next time I get diarrhea.

  25. #25

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    ^l o l
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    How is that sticking up for ISIS? If you're going to send people into battle, you take care of them when they come back. It's as simple as that.

    They can come up with $1.2 million to ship Harper's limo to India but they're cutting back on care for veterans?

    They can come up with $25 million to re-brand the Museum of Civilization and they're cutting back on veterans?

    They can spend over $100 million on Action Plan advertising since 2009 but they're cutting back on veterans?

    $9 million is change that the government could find in their sofa cushions.

    ---

    Diarrhea killed 1.5 million people worldwide in 2012. ISIS is hardly the greatest threat to Global Civilization.

    Yes, they're a terrorist group and yes, they have killed many people but pretty much anyone, anywhere in the world has many more things that are more likely to kill them.

    ISIS doesn't even make the top 10 of threats world wide. That's not saying that we shouldn't be concerned about them and that we shouldn't take action against them. However, these sorts of groups are easier to com ant before they become a major threat. Half the people involved are former Iraq military personnel who were turned loose when the Americans decided to disband the Iraq armed forces and prevent former Ba'ath members from integrating back into society.

    Well trained military personnel with a grudge against the west. What could possibly go wrong?
    I see you have brought your 'ISIS is not a threat' up again. Not sure if you comparing 1.5 million cases of diarrhea with ISIS but it seems you have caught the verbal kind. I think you have to be a very naïve person to think that. ISIS is not only a threat to troops and everyone else living in the countries they operate in they are also a threat world wide. You seem to under estimate them at every turn. They are not only a threat but they are 'dirty' fighters. Do you think for one moment they would show any mercy on any troop they captured. If you had a relative in the military would you like to hear they had been captured by ISIS. Asking you that is a moot point, you seem to think they would be cuddled to death.
    I'd like you to point out where I say ISIS is not a threat. Go ahead, I'll wait...

    Done now?

    ISIS has ~20-30,000 fighters. The idea that this is the single, greatest threat to civilization is ridiculous. That's about the population of Spruce Grove. How much of a threat would that pose to the entire world?

    Meanwhile, as I pointed out, you are much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed in almost any other manner you can imagine.

    You remind me of the talking heads on Faux "News" that were screaming how everyone was going to die from Ebola a few months ago.

    Keep things in perspective.

    I don't recall anyone on this thread saying ISIS was the biggest threat
    to civilization, you must seeing things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ JT is supporting the first reading of Bill C-51 as do I, while the NDP leader for all intent of purpose might as well be a terrorist sympathizer.
    Angry Tom is against everything.

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    ^ Well, that's his job as the official opposition. Yet Justin Trudeau even said at the time of first reading of Bill C-51 that he would support it. These are challenging times and C-51 is inked to address this. What Tom is trying to do is to take heat off the NDP's illegal and inappropriate use of party spending by owing all that money their MP's have to pay back. Their doing this by redirecting media attention away from that to opposing C-51 even though they are 2 different topics.
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  29. #29

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    Instead of sending troops I'm surprised Angry Tom did not want to send complimentary hot chocolate along with the blankets Trudeau wanted to send to the victims of terrorists. Instead of controlling the terrorists with troops here is a nice blanket (with instructions) to keep you warm.
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    I'm probably the only one on this board that believes Ottawa should free up some of that immigration cash and continue to arm the Kurds like Putin is arming the separatists. The Kurds are the only ones on the ground taking it too them. All the NDP want to do is oppose something that is a Global threat. Meanwhile uncle Tom, is buying time trying to worm out his party's wrong doing.
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  31. #31

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    ^I agree with you on averting money from the immigration department to the defence portfolio. I am not opposed to helping immigrants or asylum seekers but I think there are a lot of abuses that take place. Like immigrants here illegally who commit crimes then appeal deportation. Some of these cases take years and it cost the taxpayers millions. If there is an appeal get it to court as soon as possible and no second appeals allowed. The temporary foreign worker program should be looked into. If the workers are here and have a good work record and want to stay and apply for permanent residency let them. That would free up a lot of paperwork, treat them like regular immigrants and not second class citizens. Scrap that program all together, give the money to defence.
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  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I don't recall anyone on this thread saying ISIS was the biggest threat
    to civilization, you must seeing things.
    I guess you missed this -

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The group you identified above is the most single threat to Western civilization as we know it.They need to be utterly destroyed. Failure to recognize this fact and your living in la,la land.

    Veterans need our support this is true and this is not about partisan politics.

  33. #33

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    ^Busted. then again evaneo's post on this thread have been way more intelligent than anything you have posted so I'm going to say your hug an ISIS member is a fail for me. I'd even go to say diarrhea is less of a threat to western civilization than ISIS.
    Or course your have covered that but you fail to realize diarrhea is easier to cure in the western world. Imodium anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Well, that's his job as the official opposition. Yet Justin Trudeau even said at the time of first reading of Bill C-51 that he would support it. These are challenging times and C-51 is inked to address this. What Tom is trying to do is to take heat off the NDP's illegal and inappropriate use of party spending by owing all that money their MP's have to pay back. Their doing this by redirecting media attention away from that to opposing C-51 even though they are 2 different topics.
    Is it? everything.? Well it doesn't look well on him if the polls are correct, a most disagreeable individual. If it was-30 and cold, he would say it was hot. We have family & friends in Quebec , they cannot stand the man, maybe they wanted another Layton. I am just happy to see the conservatives making in roads in Québec, at they expense of Angry Tom and Trudeau 2.0

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    ^ Uncle Tommy, is a effective opposition leader but comes with baggage (don't we all to some degree?) I agree with you about Quebec as well and I find it refreshing to hear how some Quebec residents feel about the Uncle Tommy and where his power base comes from. I don't know if you read today's Edmonton Sun but JT said this about uncle Tommy and I quote "the NDP has never in its history supported strengthening anti-terror measures, including those brought forward by the then-Liberal government following 9/11." That was page 18 of today's Edmonton Sun. There are other comments he made that I can give a nod to as well. Other then JT's tet a tet with Theresa Spence and her "hunger strike," I like JT. I'm not a Liberal but if the lesser of the 2 evils were known between JT and uncle Tommy, I'd pick JT any day.
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  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Busted. then again evaneo's post on this thread have been way more intelligent than anything you have posted so I'm going to say your hug an ISIS member is a fail for me. I'd even go to say diarrhea is less of a threat to western civilization than ISIS.
    Or course your have covered that but you fail to realize diarrhea is easier to cure in the western world. Imodium anyone.
    Yeah, you're absolutely tight, in a Fox/Sun News sort of way. Just keep pumping up the fear. We're all going to die. ISIS is already in every neighbourhood. In every school. We can't even go to an Oilers game without fear of a terror attack. Strange that we came closer to an attack my a group of misfits though. Oh right, they're not terrorists. They were just planning on killing dozens of people and setting fire to a shopping mall. The real threat to our way of life is ISIS.

    Gotcha.

    You're more likely to be struck by lightning that be caught in a terror attack.
    Doesn't mean we shouldn't confront them. But you won't agree with that, simply because I said it.

    It's interesting how much more peaceful the middle east has become since we invaded Iraq. (Yup, regardless of what Chretien said, we were involved.)

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    For the record this is what I said:
    "The group you identified above is the most single threat to Western civilization as we know it.They need to be utterly destroyed. Failure to recognize this fact and your living in la,la land."

    Nowhere did I single out any particular group by name. I try to chose my words carefully. I'm not trying to back peddle here and I'll try and frame this properly: Terrorism is the most single threat to Global Civilization we face today.

    I stand by that statement.
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  38. #38

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    But the odds of anyone dying because of terrorism, higher in some areas of course, are actually very, very low. That's not saying that it's not a problem or that we shouldn't go after them. It's that the perception of the number of people killed by terrorist is greatly inflated in people's minds because of all the media attention.



    http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...cks-worldwide/

    Compare those WORLDWIDE figures with the deaths from the flu in Canada over a similar period.



    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/influenza/flu-stat-eng.php

    So, yes, terrorism is a problem that must be teat with but it's nowhere near the single biggest threat to civilization. The countries where terrorism is the biggest problem are those that are in a state of political upheaval, primarily in the regions surrounding Iraq. Libya, Syria, Egypt. All recently or currently experiencing a drastic, violent change in government. ISIS uses the power vacuum to further their cause. Having an unstable government also produces more discontent among the citizens that's easier for various terror groups to exploit. "Join us and help us fight the oppressors/infidels/imperial lackeys/etc!". And we're all too often ready, willing and able to step into the role that the terrorist have prepared for us by providing them with the exact enemy that they want.

    Anyway, we've stepped away from the primary reason for the topic. If we're going to get involved with these fights, we need to take care of the troops when they return. Cutting $9 million from veterans services and closing offices is not helping the troops. Surely we can come up with the funds to take care of them without impacting our military.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Busted. then again evaneo's post on this thread have been way more intelligent than anything you have posted so I'm going to say your hug an ISIS member is a fail for me. I'd even go to say diarrhea is less of a threat to western civilization than ISIS.
    Or course your have covered that but you fail to realize diarrhea is easier to cure in the western world. Imodium anyone.
    Yeah, you're absolutely tight, in a Fox/Sun News sort of way. Just keep pumping up the fear. We're all going to die. ISIS is already in every neighbourhood. In every school. We can't even go to an Oilers game without fear of a terror attack. Strange that we came closer to an attack my a group of misfits though. Oh right, they're not terrorists. They were just planning on killing dozens of people and setting fire to a shopping mall. The real threat to our way of life is ISIS.

    Gotcha.

    You're more likely to be struck by lightning that be caught in a terror attack.
    Doesn't mean we shouldn't confront them. But you won't agree with that, simply because I said it.

    It's interesting how much more peaceful the middle east has become since we invaded Iraq. (Yup, regardless of what Chretien said, we were involved.)
    Well, well, do you like to pump up the rhetoric or what. Nobody so far has said I S is in every school/hockey game/neighborhood etc: except you. By the way ISIS now wants to be know as just I S. It has changed it's name from Iraq/Syria Islamic State to just Islamic State because it's caliphate has gone world wide and not just in Iraq and Syria. Keep up your bleating about people thinking I S is every where when we know they are not. We also know just because they are not everywhere they are still a threat worldwide. Any terrorist group can be unpredictable simply for the fact they are usually operated by radicals that have no sense of reasoning or humanity. They don't care how they get their message out. People also used to think the IRA were no threat to the rest of the U.K. but they learned the hard way.
    Last edited by Gemini; 20-02-2015 at 12:16 PM.
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  40. #40
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    ^ Gemini, your argument is sound. More about this later.
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  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Busted. then again evaneo's post on this thread have been way more intelligent than anything you have posted so I'm going to say your hug an ISIS member is a fail for me. I'd even go to say diarrhea is less of a threat to western civilization than ISIS.
    Or course your have covered that but you fail to realize diarrhea is easier to cure in the western world. Imodium anyone.
    Yeah, you're absolutely tight, in a Fox/Sun News sort of way. Just keep pumping up the fear. We're all going to die. ISIS is already in every neighbourhood. In every school. We can't even go to an Oilers game without fear of a terror attack. Strange that we came closer to an attack my a group of misfits though. Oh right, they're not terrorists. They were just planning on killing dozens of people and setting fire to a shopping mall. The real threat to our way of life is ISIS.

    Gotcha.

    You're more likely to be struck by lightning that be caught in a terror attack.
    Doesn't mean we shouldn't confront them. But you won't agree with that, simply because I said it.

    It's interesting how much more peaceful the middle east has become since we invaded Iraq. (Yup, regardless of what Chretien said, we were involved.)
    Well, well, do you like to pump up the rhetoric or what. Nobody so far has said I S is in every school/hockey game/neighborhood etc: except you. By the way ISIS now wants to be know as just I S. It has changed it's name from Iraq/Syria Islamic State to just Islamic State because it's caliphate has gone world wide and not just in Iraq and Syria. Keep up your bleating about people thinking I S is every where when we know they are not. We also know just because they are not everywhere they are still a threat worldwide. Any terrorist group can be unpredictable simply for the fact they are usually operated by radicals that have no sense of reasoning or humanity. They don't care how they get their message out. People also used to think the IRA were no threat to the rest of the U.K. but they learned the hard way.
    And yet the UK survived. And the IRA wasn't defeated militarily. I don't recall Londonderry being bombed by the RAF.

    So, how much more money from Veterans Affairs will they need to continue the fight? Should they also cut veterans pensions?

    But you're right, of course. The terrorists, all of them, can arrive on our shores at any moment via their long range transport aircraft and troop carrying ships. Oh wait….

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    kkozoriz, did you begin this thread just to start another long winded, inflammatory discussion about your political beliefs? I believe you already have a thread for that, do you need a link?

  43. #43

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    I started it, and have tried to steer it back to discussion of the cysts to Veterans Affairs. Gemini and others seem to think that the $9 million from closing VA offices is all that's keeping us from falling to ISIS. I brought them up to show how quickly the government can come up with $122+ (Some reports now show it as $160 million) and yet the government deems it necessary to cut back on Veterans.

    We're sending people into combat again but cutting back on services to those that have served and returned. What are we going to do for those that are fighting now?

    Harper's always big on "Support the Troops" but when it comes time to actually do it, he's cutting back. There's more to supporting the troops than providing them with new planes and ships (neither of which he's managed to do either.)

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    Ok thanks for the reply. Just seems these threads usually turn into a train wreck.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    kkozoriz, did you begin this thread just to start another long winded, inflammatory discussion about your political beliefs? I believe you already have a thread for that, do you need a link?
    Yeah he started this thread then he turned it into a long winded gab fest. Not only that he injects things people never even said into the conversation. Maybe he's off his meds.
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  46. #46

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    Says the guy that said

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I don't recall anyone on this thread saying ISIS was the biggest threat
    to civilization, you must seeing things.
    And that, somehow, pointing out the underfunding of Veterans Affairs while spending millions more on various other things, including the current combat mission, somehow translates into "hug an ISIS member".

    So you're in favour of creating more veterans that need physical, psychological or other help but don't want to help the veterans we already have.

  47. #47

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    ^For the record envaneo cleared up my ISIS comment on post #37, nobody on this thread has said ISIS was the biggest threat to civilization but keep repeating what has already been reputed. Keep putting things on the board that no one has said, thought or uttered.
    In a perfect world we want all our troops supported, in war, in peacetime in failing health and adversity. Don't keep harping on about what you think other posters want then posting it. You don't speak for me or anyone else. I suppose it keeps you entertained imagining what people want to say. If that's the case, just state your own opinions and not the ones you think others are thinking. I don't need you to speak for me, I can speak for myself.
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  48. #48

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    What bothers me are hate crimes against Muslims at home.We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with radical Jihadists that seek to kill innocent people. These attacks on innocent Muslims here in Canada have to stop. When these attacks occur we become no better then the terrorist themselves. Hate crimes against peaceful innocent Muslims paint the perpetrators as terrorists imo. Innocent Canadian Muslims need our tolerance support.
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  50. #50

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    ^It is sad indeed that people think all Muslims are radicals. It seems it is an uphill battle peaceful Muslims are trying to overcome. They want the radicals gone just as much as anyone else. I S is fighting for an Islamic State but not in the name of Islam. There fighting it on their twisted ideology of what Islam is and what I S should be. Peaceful Muslims are getting killed by these I S radicals as they blunder through towns and villages for their own ends.
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  51. #51

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    Back on topic.

    The Harper Government is now giving veterans an extra two years for their missing limbs to grow back.

    Canada tells vets without limbs to prove it - every three years

    OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian veterans who are missing limbs will have to prove it every three years to qualify for assistance, instead of every year, the government said on Friday.

    Canada announced the changes during Question Period in the House of Commons on Friday, and said the Veterans Independence Program, which helps disabled veterans, will move to a three-year renewal cycle from one year.

    http://ca.reuters.com/article/domest...0LV2O920150227

  52. #52

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    ^You know anyone in the forces that has suffered severe injuries should be well and truly covered by our government. I know there are a lot of things they can and should do better for injured veterans. The other side of the coin in some veterans go on to have great productive lives with prosthetic limbs. Some of them (in time) find they are not as impaired as they thought they would be. If the government assessed veterans every 3 years they may well find some veterans are getting on perfectly fine with their injuries. They may no longer need support from Veterans Affairs and they may be proud of that. If some still need support after three years or for the rest of their lives they should be supported. Don't get hung up on veterans being assessed every three years. It could be a way the government collects data how veterans are fairing and what funds should go where.
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  53. #53
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    ^^ Its in response to pressure by the opposition.
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  54. #54

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    From the very first post -

    During the recent Manulife lawsuit, I was approved of a pension but was not to receive it until a doctor confirmed my limb loss. This is something that has to be done every year presumably until age 65.

    Now, he just has to prove it every three years. It's not about how well they're getting along. Once they have reached a point where they don't need some services, then they can stop them. Making a veteran go to the doctor to get a note string that his legs haven't grown back is stupid. Every case is different and there should be a way to start or stop needed services depending on the individual.

  55. #55

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    I worked for the government for quite a few years and there is no end of red tape they wrap themselves and the public in. You know those placards people get in Alberta for their vehicles if they are disabled. Disabled people can get these placards so a relative can put them in their cars and drive the disabled person around. There was one guy came in to renew his wife's placard and they told him he had to have another doctors note before it could be applied. His wife was partially blind and had other neurology problems and could not drive any more. There was no cure (yet) for his wife's condition. The girl at the front desk said that was the rule and she was sorry he was upset about it. She said that there was no 'code' assigned to the computer for people who were disabled, unable to drive because of a permanent condition. She also said that they were working on this so that people would not have to get a doctors note every time for permanent conditions. Back to Veterans Affairs. Maybe they should assign better codes to their system so that an automatic letter will not be sent out to soldiers who have lost limbs asking them to prove they have lost limbs. The letter could state that the file is being reviewed but you do not have to prove you have lost a limb. One measly code could stop a whole lot of sorrow.
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  56. #56
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    ^ Good point to note, thanks.
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  57. #57

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    Exactly. There's no need for someone to constantly prove a loss that isn't going to grow back. It ties up the patients, the doctor and the people in VA. Instead, they decide on three years. Why not 5? or 10? or code it for 100.

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    My position is this: Cut out some of that $23B annual immigration budget and apply it to Vets. That's the largest elephant in the room, immigration.
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  59. #59

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    They could easily pay the $9 million/year from the Action Plan budget.

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    Or uncle Tommy (NDP) can take it out of their inappropriate use of party spending. Or uncle Tommy can just pick up the phone and call his buddies in Quebec.
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  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Back on topic.

    The Harper Government is now giving veterans an extra two years for their missing limbs to grow back.

    Canada tells vets without limbs to prove it - every three years

    OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian veterans who are missing limbs will have to prove it every three years to qualify for assistance, instead of every year, the government said on Friday.
    Well, that's three times as long as what the Liberals set up when they originally brought this legislation in, a move in the right direction.

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Back on topic.

    The Harper Government is now giving veterans an extra two years for their missing limbs to grow back.

    Canada tells vets without limbs to prove it - every three years

    OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian veterans who are missing limbs will have to prove it every three years to qualify for assistance, instead of every year, the government said on Friday.
    Well, that's three times as long as what the Liberals set up when they originally brought this legislation in, a move in the right direction.
    Brain dead people running the show and enforcing moronic policy. As Gemini and kk said, fix the problem and code it accordingly. Less systemic waste, fewer lawyers and judges involved as it goes to court, no PR nightmares and wasted ministerial time and wages defending the indefensible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    My position is this: Cut out some of that $23B annual immigration budget and apply it to Vets. That's the largest elephant in the room, immigration.
    Wait, what? How did you arrive at 23 billion for "immigration", exactly?

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    Thank you, it's exactly what I thought it would be: a specious report that cherry picks data and arrives at unjustified conclusions. Keep in mind, he said "cut the immigration budget". Virtually none of the 23 billion talked about in that report is "immigration budget". The vast majority of it is social programs that every Canadian uses. So is he suggesting that we stop immigration? That we kick immigrants out? That we bar them from social programs until they get citizenship? What?

    And for every report like that one, there are many more that clearly show immigration is a net positive, especially for developed countries with below replacement level fertility.

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    Heh, that report is actually worse than I thought. All it looked at its the difference in incomes between immigrants and citizens, calculates the difference in taxes they'd pay, and then claims that is the cost of immigration. That is atrocious. I'm shocked that the Fraser Institute would do such shoddy work.

  67. #67

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    No evaneo is not suggesting to stop immigration. I think he wants them to look to see if some of those programs should be assessed and maybe cut back on. Any savings could be diverted to Veterans Affairs. It seems to me wounded veterans get very shoddy treatment. They even got shafted with this http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/1-1b...-say-1.2841417.
    If Canada is going to have an Army/Navy/Air Force that is actively sending member to areas where they can be injured it should be prepared to fully look after them when they need it.
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    ^ Thanks, I should hire you to be my pr spokesperson Incidentally Canada admits roughly 250,000 immigrants every year. The Government has had trouble keeping up with processing caseload.

    As for our armed forces Jean Chrétien's Liberal government first announced the purchase of the four diesel-electric submarines in 1998. They were bought second-hand from Britain's Royal Navy for $896 million in what was heralded at the time as a great bargain for taxpayers. But their cost and associated refits have stirred controversy ever since. Estimates cost at least twice that much to fix, maintain and update to modern standards. In 2008, Canada's Treasury Board approved a maximum of $1.5 billion to support and service the four subs.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...itic-1.2976769

    If that's not enough then what about the F-35 fighter jet boondoggle?

    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...Hornets-05739/

    Ok, I covered the Navy and the Air Force, anyone else want to cover the Army?
    Last edited by envaneo; 01-03-2015 at 09:46 PM.
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  69. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Thank you, it's exactly what I thought it would be: a specious report that cherry picks data and arrives at unjustified conclusions. Keep in mind, he said "cut the immigration budget". Virtually none of the 23 billion talked about in that report is "immigration budget". The vast majority of it is social programs that every Canadian uses. So is he suggesting that we stop immigration? That we kick immigrants out? That we bar them from social programs until they get citizenship? What?

    And for every report like that one, there are many more that clearly show immigration is a net positive, especially for developed countries with below replacement level fertility.
    I'm not sure they have cherry picked their data. Let's just say half the immigrants that come to Canada are children. They would not be taxpayers until they start to work. Some immigrants also have to be accredited in their trade or profession therefore going to trade school or classes to do that. Some have to attend classes to upgrade their language skills. It's fine saying that every Canadian uses these social programs but adding new comers that have added very little monetary value in the short while they have been in Canada can only stretch the budget. Then you have immigrants with children who will be collecting benefits for those children etc. The Fraser Institute does not mention refugees who are another category from immigrants. I should imagine refugees cost the Canadian taxpayer more money until they are settled. They usually have very little in the way of wealth when they arrive and cannot provide for themselves. Immigrants are supposed to be monetarily self sufficient when they come here. Have enough money to find accommodation, pay health care premiums etc. until they find work.
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    ^Also there are lots of people that commit immigration fraud. At one point a few years ago uncle Tommy and his NDP gang wanted to give CPP to every landed immigrant. Anyone recall the Doctors protest of a few years ago holding placards saying "Canada we can do better?" That was a NDP sponsored campaign.
    Last edited by envaneo; 01-03-2015 at 09:50 PM.
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  71. #71

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    Cover up and claim it's in the best interests of the family even though they oppose it.

    ‘The ultimate insult': DND won’t say how it will respond to report on Afghanistan veteran’s suicide

    In an unprecedented move, the Department of National Defence has slapped a “secret” order on its response to the high-profile Military Police Complaints Commission report into the 2008 suicide of Afghanistan war veteran Cpl. Stuart Langridge.

    But the commission is fighting to have the military’s attempt at secrecy overturned and has filed an application in Federal Court for a judicial review — effectively challenging the legality of the military’s decision.

    If the MPCC’s challenge fails, neither Langridge’s family nor the public will ever know whether the military has either accepted or implemented the recommendations that emerged from the commission’s public inquiry.

    ---

    The veteran’s family has suffered enough, added Drapeau, a retired colonel.

    “This is the kind of pain and frustration you don’t inflict on people in a democracy,” he said. “But on the positive side, it lays bare the difficulty we have had getting to the truth. It’s audacious and infuriating.”

    ---

    The responses typically include a so-called Notice of Action, which outlines how the military intends to deal with the recommendations.

    But the commission received the responses to its Langridge recommendations along with a “Protected B” designation that forbids it from either publishing the responses or discussing them publicly.

    As it stands, when the final report into the Langridge suicide is released March 10, it will include redacted (blank) pages that represent the military’s response.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03...e-is-a-secret/

  72. #72

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    Yeah, pretty much…


  73. #73

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    So they kept the suicide note from his parents so they could milk it for propaganda value...

    Major flaws in probe of Cpl. Stuart Langridge's suicide: report

    As expected, the report targeted the single highest-profile symbol of the case: the “mishandling” of the soldier’s simple, handwritten suicide note that was kept from his parents for 14 months.

    That act resulted in the soldier’s last wish for a private, family funeral being ignored in favour of a full military funeral.

    The Fyneses have described the discovery of the note as “emotionally devastating.”

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...119/story.html

  74. #74

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    ^Could you explain what 'propaganda' took place. Definitely incompetence, unnecessary government bureaucracy and interference but not seeing propaganda.
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  75. #75
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    Military funerals can be patriotism/solidarity/support the troops kind of events.

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    As in the highway of heroes.
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  77. #77

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    ^ ^^ In the context of your posts I now can see the 'propaganda' angle.
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  78. #78

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    I'm reminded of the story of pat Tillman, killed by friendly fire but that was covered up...

    Pat Tillman, From Wikipedia

    Tillman's parents have sharply criticized the Army's handling of the incident; Tillman's father charges that the Army "purposely interfered in the investigation" because of the effect it could have on their recruiting efforts, while Tillman's mother charges that "this lie was to cover their image."[22]

    After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this. They purposely interfered with the investigation; they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy.[22]

    He also blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

  79. #79

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    We cannot dwell on the negative aspects of our Forces. For the better part the troops and admin do a tremendous job under the worst of circumstances. the It's just when things go wrong a handful of people can really screw things up for everyone.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  80. #80

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    That's very true (same with the police). However, that doesn't mean we should ignore such things when the occur. If we did, we'd still have the members of the Airborne to deal with who tortured a young Somali to death.

  81. #81

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    Well let's at least try to keep the conversation in the same century. That happened 22 years ago.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  82. #82

    Default

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

    - George Santayana

    Also, "I was only following orders" is still not considered a valid defence, 70 years after the Nuremberg trials.

  83. #83

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    An in depth look at how the military mistreated the Langridge case and how they treated his parents and the media.

    Pugliese: The Canadian military’s war against a soldier’s family

    DAVID PUGLIESE, OTTAWA CITIZEN

    Published on: March 11, 2015


    Fynes’s crime was that she wouldn’t shut up. She, and her husband Shaun, refused to stop speaking out about the suicide of their Afghan veteran son, Stuart Langridge. For seven years they continued to ask embarrassing questions and push for accountability from the Canadian Forces and military police.

    In response, some in the Canadian Forces conducted a behind-the-scenes smear campaign. In more than 25 years covering the military, I’ve never seen such a vindictive attack.

    ---

    The Citizen series revealed that paperwork naming Shaun Fynes as the executor of the estate was eventually found behind a filing cabinet at CFB Edmonton but before that, the military had allowed another person to assume that role.

    Documents clearly naming Sheila and Shaun Fynes as primary and secondary next of kin were ignored. Mistakes were also made on the soldier’s death certificate. The Fyneses had to spend $12,000 in legal fees to correct the inaccuracies.

    The military also withheld Langridge’s suicide note from the family for almost 15 months. The soldier’s car, eventually returned to the couple, was seriously damaged while in military storage.

    After the stories were published, the phone calls started coming in. Military officers said they were prevented by federal privacy laws from making public the full details of the case. But privately they claimed Langridge had a difficult relationship with his parents and had insisted that in the event of an emergency, his family not be involved.

    The family, they said, was just “in it for the money” they hoped to get from the military. Journalists were also told Langridge was a screw-up as a soldier.

    It all turned out to be hogwash.

    ---

    Natynczyk, who fashioned himself as a type of uncle-figure taking care of his troops, was stung by the Fyneses’ allegations. And he didn’t like the news coverage the case was receiving.

    In 2010, an officer came to me with a message – if I wanted to get back in Natynczyk’s good graces I would lay off writing about Langridge. If I didn’t, then I would never get another interview with the chief. My response in rather colourful language meant I never did get another interview.

    In May 2011 [Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Walt ] Natynczyk’s office ordered a team of public affairs officers to comb through one of my Citizen articles on Langridge and look for errors. If they could find any they could force an apology from the newspaper. No errors were found.

    http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politi...ors_picks=true
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 11-03-2015 at 09:47 PM.

  84. #84

    Default

    And DND screws it up again and even tries to cover it up. Way to "support the troops" there General...

    Top general apologizes to family of Afghan vet for letter questioning awarding of medals

    Sheila Fynes was also particularly upset that Lawson sent the letter directly to her and her husband instead of to their lawyer, who had originally asked a series of questions about the military board of inquiry into the suicide.

    She saw that as a deliberate move by Lawson to further cause the family grief. “It was about sticking in the knife even further to tell us about the medals,” she explained. “It’s payback. We created a lot of problems for the military because we wouldn’t go away and our case was high-profile in the media.”

    In an interview with the Citizen Tuesday night Lawson repeatedly insisted he never sent the letter to the Fynes and that it was instead delivered to their lawyer.

    But Lawson retreated from that claim Wednesday after the Fynes produced the letter and the envelope clearly showing the general mailed the correspondence directly to them.


    The DND statement noted that Lawson “made an honest mistake” and the letter “was addressed to the family directly with the best of intentions.”

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