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Thread: Calgary to announce their own new downtown arena plans

  1. #501

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    ^There you go again, making unwarranted assumptions.

    I don't mind hockey at all, I just cringe at this place being all about hockey and nothing else.

    As regards the negative point of view, it's a tactic, in case you hadn't noticed.

    Otherwise Richard's servers would lift from the amount of hot air being blown into them.

    But if calling me a negative nancy turns your crank, go for it.

  2. #502

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    I've personally witnessed more Calgarians coming to Edmonton to experience Rogers and all the development around it since it opened than in my entire life prior. Granted I don't know a lot of Calgarians, but it's definitely real to some extent.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    ^ A lot of those Calgarians are coming here for major touring acts skipping Calgary to play 2 or more nights in Edmonton due to the limitations of the Dome.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post

    I don't mind hockey at all, I just cringe at this place being all about hockey and nothing else.

    (...)

    Otherwise Richard's servers would lift from the amount of hot air being blown into them.
    (...)
    I read these two lines while out at dim sum. Thank you for the laugh, although sui mei through the nose was an interesting feeling.

    I often joke that I need to liquid cool my CPU's.

    As for the all hockey all the time...I agree. It hurts a lot of other endeavours as you can't get any attention. Especially now... I've been waiting for a call back from some folks since November, but now I know I won't hear until the Oilers are out
    Onward and upward

  5. #505

    Default Two Full Size Arenas needed for Winter Olympics

    The winter Olympics is the key to all of this. Seems that you need two full size Arenas (which is odd to me, as I don't remember that in Vancouver).

    Ken King said Monday it's "no more than a happy coincidence" the CBEC needs two arenas at a time when King's group is seeking a new arena and event centre.

    King is president and CEO of the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation, which owns the Calgary Flames and Calgary Stampeders. He said a new arena can't become contingent on a successful bid for the Winter Games, because it will take too long.

    "Frankly, the chances of success on an Olympic bid are certainly not remote, but we need to have a much higher degree of certainty than that," he said.

    King said "productive discussions" around a new arena are ongoing.

    "Nothing is guaranteed in this tumultuous day and age, but I think we're making some real progress with the city," he said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ison-1.4093542

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    Vancouver has the Pacific Coliseum which was used for figure skating and speed skating during the Olympics. Calgary still has the Corral as well. Smart. Edmonton already wants to rid us of Northlands Coliseum or divide it up or whatever. I say keep it as is. We could use it. Maybe even have two NHL teams in future. Metro New York has three.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 02-05-2017 at 09:34 AM.

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    The sad thing about any Olympics is that a lot of it will be spent on security.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  8. #508

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Vancouver has the Pacific Coliseum which was used for figure skating and speed skating during the Olympics. Calgary still has the Corral as well. Smart. Edmonton already wants to rid us of Northlands Coliseum or divide it up or whatever. I say keep it as is. We could use it. Maybe even have two NHL teams in future. Metro New York has three.
    Metro New York has 20x our population. And in the extremely distant future where we could maybe support another team, we wouldn't get one because TV viewership trumps all, and even then no team would go into that ancient building. Northlands won't be a full arena, and that's the right move.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Calgary SUN: Why the big concert tours keep passing us by for Edmonton
    http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/05/19...y-for-edmonton
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I like that. It's a good one, especially being in a Calgary daily newspaper. Haha

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    Rogers Place took a lot of planning by the city, Daryl Katz, the Edmonton Oilers and many other parties.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    In what has been the bluntest talk yet about the future of the Calgary Flames, president of operations Brian Burke said the NHL team will leave the city if they don’t get the new arena they’ve been seeking.

    “We’re not going to make the threat to leave. We’ll just leave,” Burke told a business luncheon at the Canadian Club of Calgary Wednesday.

    “We still have a building that was built in 1983, the oldest in the league by more than 10 years.

    “They figured it out in Edmonton. Where they know that a new building can rejuvenate the downtown. But I guess we’re just smarter than that here.”

    Burke’s speech aimed to focus on the financial challenges that Canadian NHL teams face, from a low Canadian dollar to more public support for new builds in the U.S.
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...et-a-new-arena

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    I liked Ken King's comment that Burke isn't the spokesman for the Flames. I imagine there were some very heated words spoken back and forth between Burke and King.

    My guess is that Calgary will get a new arena, probably within 10 years.

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    King's statement is kind of odd as he was the first person to make those same statements that I'm aware of.

  15. #515

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I liked Ken King's comment that Burke isn't the spokesman for the Flames. I imagine there were some very heated words spoken back and forth between Burke and King.

    My guess is that Calgary will get a new arena, probably within 10 years.
    I think will get a new arena, "if" the winter Olympics go ahead. If they don't, I really don't know - there is almost zero appetite in Calgary to put public money into this - unlike Edmonton there isn't a feeling that the downtown needs to be revitalized, so if the Flames want it, they are probably going to have to pay for all of it.

    Scott Hennig, vice-president communications with the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, said the public needs to understand that building arenas with public money is not the norm in Canada, adding that NHL rinks in Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa and Vancouver were all privately-funded by team owners.

    "This is corporate welfare. It's no different than if we gave money to Bombardier.

    "The Calgary Flames are a for-profit business."

    Chris MacRae, the only business person attending the luncheon who spoke out against Burke, agreed.

    "I'm not sure what the benefit is to taxpayers...Right now, you guys are getting a building for free, you're paying no rent at all," said MacRae, whose family has held seasons tickets for more than three decades.

    "But at least if you build a bunch of condos on a site, the city will benefit from a lot of tax revenue."
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/06/07...-without-arena

  16. #516

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    I think edmonton did the heavy lifting already. I cannot say what happened in the 70's however. Rexall was 1977? Saddledome83? So with the red tape my guess is 8 years after ours their new barn will open. I do not trust any typical politicians, nenshi talks out of both sides of his mouth as did mandel.Wouldn't doubt if there was collusion between ken king and Burke to continue to be planting seeds of fear. If enough seeds are planted in the early stages after 2017 never will this topic need to be whispered again as the fear will be deeply planted

  17. #517

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    Wouldn't doubt if there was collusion between ken king and Burke to continue to be planting seeds of fear. If enough seeds are planted in the early stages after 2017 never will this topic need to be whispered again as the fear will be deeply planted
    I don't think Calgarians are as attached to the Flames as Edmontonians to the Oilers. So many from Calgary are transient, they come from other cities, very few were actually born in Calgary, and many bring with them support of other hockey teams (Oilers, Leafs, Canadiens, Jets, etc.). Fear isn't IMO going to work, there is a real distaste of "bailing out / subsidizing" the rich owners, especially at a time when so many people are unemployed. The Flames timed this really badly - this might have flown when oil was at $100, but it wont now, Nenshi is smart - he has his ears to the ground and knows the publics mood on this. I think even in Edmonton, if the arena had been proposed today it would have been a much tougher sell.
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-06-2017 at 09:42 AM.

  18. #518

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    Moahunter showing just how out of touch he is with Edmonton (again)

    Edmonton also has a very transient work force and most of the city has come from somewhere else. Heading to any oiler game where you have other canadian team playing you'll surely see lots of the opposing team jerseys.

    The support for the Flames is about the same as the support for the Oilers.

    I'll agree - the arena would be a harder sell today than it was in 2013-2014

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    Does Burke think he's actually helping? Or is he, as per usual, just enjoying the sound of his own voice?

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    ^ Posturing. Part of the playbook to hook funding.
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    I think it's more (and less) than that, when Ken King immediately comes out and disavows Burke and his statements.

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    I don't know how Ken King can disavow Burke's quote of what King himself said earlier.

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    Well, issuing a statement that gets posted on NHL.com is one way: https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/mess...ng/c-289830784

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    I guess he can do it. It just seems insincere since it was he himself who made the statement (threat) in the first place.

    It is also funny that the bar at the top of your link has a Flames logo and says "IT'S GO TIME".

  25. #525

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I guess he can do it. It just seems insincere since it was he himself who made the statement (threat) in the first place.

    It is also funny that the bar at the top of your link has a Flames logo and says "IT'S GO TIME".
    It's sort of a non disavowal - just "he is not our spokesperson on this issue" as opposed to disagreeing with what he actually said. I agree Burke didn't really say anything much different that King. I think he was just concerned that Burke may have upset their delicate negotiations. It might just have been a bad time to say it so bluntly. It's kind of funny that they keep making threats and then say that they are not, but that's sort of the process for getting a new arena. We've been through all of that here in Edmonton.

    I think Calgary will eventually get to some agreement for a new arena. The tough economy is making the process harder and the first option was really not that good and too expensive. I don't think it will be right downtown like Edmonton's, but in their case I think the main issue is a getting a new better building, not so much the location. The current location is ok.

    Until they sort things out, we here can enjoy a bit of Edmonton envy in Calgary.

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    https://twitter.com/EricFrancis/stat...37049452572672

    Eric Francis‏ @EricFrancis

    Breaking: Ken King drops bombshell, saying owners no longer going to pursue new arena in Calgary.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    That's unfortunate for Calgary.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Political posturing. Maybe King thinks this will help the Anyone But Nenshi campaign taking shape in Calgary. After all, Bill Smith is running for Mayor down there.

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    This arena could cost twice as much as Edmonton's. Calgary likely doesn't have the benefit of the Community Revitalization Levy, which has helped Rogers Place.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Full story:

    Ken King says Flames will not pursue new arena in Calgary
    Mayor Naheed Nenshi expected to react at city hall later on Tuesday evening
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...nshi-1.4286660
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Intriguing. Bargaining ploy? Threaten to move to Seattle?

    Logically it would make sense to build it near one of their LRT stops at the very least if it's not going to be in a central location. Very interesting.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Political posturing. Maybe King thinks this will help the Anyone But Nenshi campaign taking shape in Calgary. After all, Bill Smith is running for Mayor down there.
    We had a Mayor Bill Smith and a new arena, so Calgary wants them too!

    Not really aware of Calgary politics enough to know who are considered front runners, but unless Ken King and the rest of the old boy establishment rally behind one legitimate pro-arena candidate, I'm not really sure if Nenshi has anything to worry about. Several "run city hall like a business" candidates with identical platforms (vote splitting, anybody?), one with a horribly formatted blog, another who is targeting the millennial stoner demographic, and Calgary's version of Fred Phelps.

    https://www.calgaryelectioncandidates.com/mayoral-candidates-2017/

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  33. #533

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    ^Agreed, Ken King is just trying to play politics re the Mayoral election, Nenshi is not at any risk. Nenshi isn't that popular among the business community, but there is not much support for the Flames owners getting a deal like happened in Edmonton - there isn't the same business case for it / there is no downtown to revitalize. The timing is really bad with high unemployment, people don't have an appetite for public money to spend on an asset owned by a wealthy group of individuals for a game played by very wealthy individuals. If anything this is helping Nenshi - it is showing the public that he isn't rolling over to the demands of these owners.
    Last edited by moahunter; 13-09-2017 at 08:27 AM.

  34. #534

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    high unemployment eh? Big projects like an arena could put some people to work. It's one of the reasons Edmonton's unemployment numbers didn't crash like Calgarys did.

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    So much taxpayers money. Bet it's an election issue..!

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    It'd be a shame if the Flames moved, on the other hand, it'd be nice for Edmonton to have the only NHL team in the province.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    I dont care either way...poor old Nenshi LOL

  38. #538

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    The Flames aren't going to move. Period. They aren't Winnipeg, or Quebec City, playing in relative barns when those cities got their team yanked. excuse pun..

    Also have to laugh at the typical badgering about how hard it is to operate an NHL team in Canada. lmao. Canadian clubs, almost all of them, are invariably among the most successful in gate and revenues. Despite the low Canadian dollar.

    Good luck in anycase landing somewhere else and trying to get a new market to care about a team with a wimp like Johnny Hockey as the club figurehead. lmfao. Who would support that club somewhere else?

    I think the Flames just came to their senses in rescinding the Arena demand. Full well they know how brutal the optics are.

    I continue to find it funny that arenas built in 1974, or 1983 are "old" when NHL clubs had rinks that were near Century old when these Alberta Rinks were opened.
    Last edited by Replacement; 13-09-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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    If they want to see old, they need to go to Europe! LOL

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Mayor Nenshi might release the details of the competing proposals


    http://Coliseumwww.calgarysun.com/20...-talks-are-off
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    Bill Smith looks like he'd make a good Mayor for Calgary.!

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    Jen Gerson's comments are arrogant.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rena-1.4313740

    Calgary better start working on a solution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    That's a good one. Jim McConnell could probably move it too. He'll move anything. www.mcconnellbuildingmovers.com
    Last edited by Drumbones; 30-09-2017 at 09:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Jen Gerson's comments are arrogant.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rena-1.4313740

    Calgary better start working on a solution.
    Yeah well Cowturd town will look rather "pathetic" when the Flamers pack up their mules and head to the Emerald city

  46. #546

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Jen Gerson's comments are arrogant.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rena-1.4313740

    Calgary better start working on a solution.
    Wow.

    "Edmonton is the clear example of this. I mean, clearly, so much of Edmonton's flagging, sad, little ego is tied up in their hockey success that they needed to sign a scam of a deal to give a sweetheart arena over to (Oilers owner) Daryl Katz. And now all of a sudden the expectation is that Calgary is going to fall in line?"
    "I'm afraid we're not that pathetic," she said. "We're just not that pathetic, as a city."
    Arrogant is right.

  47. #547

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The Flames aren't going to move. Period. They aren't Winnipeg, or Quebec City, playing in relative barns when those cities got their team yanked. excuse pun..
    I think you are right, a lot of Calgarians are mad at the Flames owners. Nenshi offered up a considerable amount of money, and they decided to stop negotiating:

    The city's latest offer to pump $130 million in cash and $55 million in other costs into building a new Flames arena in Victoria Park in extremely generous, Mayor Naheed Nenshi said Friday.

    But Flames president Ken King in a hastily-called press conference Friday morning said the city's offer is misleading because whatever the city commits would eventually be paid back by the club.

    That city offer, which would leave ownership of a $555 million arena with the Flames who would keep all revenues generated from it was rejected by the owners of the NHL club.

    In what the city is calling a three-way cost split, the club would pay another $185 million in cash while the remaining $185 million would come from a facility ticket surcharge.

    Nenshi said the city's position is so attractive, "some will say the city is giving away too much."
    http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/09/15...-of-arena-cost

    The idea that Calgary owners (who are billionares) deserve to get the same deal as Katz got, is offensive to a lot of people - there isn't a downtown to rejuvenate, and there isn't any proof that these owners will build anything like Katz has (Murray Edwards for example, changed residency to the UK, ostensibly to avoid paying Canadian personal tax). In a time when many have lost their jobs, the feeling is, public money shouldn't be going into a private sports team - these owners should take a bit of a hit like the rest of the city has. A lot of people are fine with the Flames leaving if it comes to that - its hard to imagine though, why the NHL would give up a solid hockey base for a city that has no proven audience, simply because it has a newer arena. Nenshi is going to win an overwhelming majority - I have spoken to people who generally don't like him, Flames fans who love to go to the game, who are totally behind Nenshi now.
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-09-2017 at 11:19 AM.

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    I don't think they understand Edmontons deal. To simplify It's sort of like I build a house and rent it out so the renter pays off the mortgage.

  49. #549

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    To simplify It's sort of like I build a house and rent it out so the renter pays off the mortgage.
    Its more like, you give me money, and I'll buy a house and earn rent from it, and in return, I'll let you use the backyard occasionally (community rink), and I'll pay you some tax on the profits I earn. I wouldn't say no to a government giving me a fortune to invest. I supported the Edmonton arena deal, because the city needed the investment and Katz has delivered, but its a very different situation in Calgary, I don't trust that Murray Edwards, et. al, have any interest in delivering the investment the way Katz has, especially as there is no market for that investment right now (both office towers and condos are overbuilt in Calgary).
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-09-2017 at 11:26 AM.

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    Yes, very different deal. I supported the arena because it was more than an arena, it was a way to develop our downtown using a new arena as the catalyst. I'm very happy with the way it turned out, and I'm always amazed when I go downtown and see the construction going on.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Yes, very different deal. I supported the arena because it was more than an arena, it was a way to develop our downtown using a new arena as the catalyst. I'm very happy with the way it turned out, and I'm always amazed when I go downtown and see the construction going on.
    Even without a new Arena, the Flames are only one spot in revenues behind the Oilers and virtually in the top 1/3rd - its hard for the Flames to make the charity argument that the Saddledome isn't working for them, and its hard to imagine Seattle or somewhere else would instantly jump into the top 10 out of 31 teams:

    Earlier this week, King said the Flames are no longer among the NHL's top 10 revenue-earning teams.

    Nenshi said Thursday that's true — the team is actually 11th in the 31-team league.

    He said with additional revenues from a new arena, the Edmonton Oilers have traded places with the Flames.

    The Oilers now sit in 10th spot.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tman-1.4312627

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    Just wondering how event usage outside of hockey compares between Rogers and the Saddledome.
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    Calgary is probably North America's fastest-growing city since 2000.
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    According to this article, pretty close.

    http://www.newgeography.com/content/...growing-cities

    Behind Raleigh, Austin and Salt Lake City.

  56. #556

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    What if the Flames left Calgary? Economically, this article suggests, not much:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ysis-1.4314106

  57. #557

    Default This Nenshi guy sure knows how to get under Bettman's skin

    Lol.

    But that’s Phoenix. The Coyotes, says the commissioner, are there to stay. Calgary, where they earn a profit and were playing hockey when Phoenixians were still chasing tumbleweeds, is another story. “They’re not moving this season, but I don’t know how long they can hang on,” he said.

    For Bettman the strategy now is clear: there’s an election coming up and of course this Nenshi guy wants to get re-elected. So the thing to do is to let Calgarians know their mayor is entirely to blame for the Flames’ problems, and that he will be the go-to villain if the team decides to leave town.

    -


    When Edmonton was debating its arena, “the fact of the matter was I was in constant contact with Mayor (Stephen) Mandel and Daryl, and I always believed that would get done,” he told the Edmonton Sun’s Eric Francis. “This couldn’t be more opposite.”

    Mandel, you see, is a good mayor. Nenshi is a bad mayor. Nenshi’s ideas are “just not from the real world.” Calgary needs a smarter mayor, one from the real world. Someone who knows when to go along with clever businessmen and hockey team owners. If Calgary voters aren’t smart enough to provide that… well, sure would be a shame if something happened to their hockey team, get my drift? They might just pack up their shin pads and toddle off to someplace that appreciates them more, like maybe Seattle.

    Yeah… Seattle. Or Kansas. I bet they don’t elect troublemakers like Nenshi in Wichita. I bet they elect smart fellas, the sort who know how to reach a deal. And who understand that, when Gary Bettman comes to town, he expects to deal with people from the real world. Come election day, he’ll be watching. Don’t let him down Calgary. Rubes never do.
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/kell...-bettmans-skin
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-10-2017 at 02:01 PM.

  58. #558

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Lol.

    But that’s Phoenix. The Coyotes, says the commissioner, are there to stay. Calgary, where they earn a profit and were playing hockey when Phoenixians were still chasing tumbleweeds, is another story. “They’re not moving this season, but I don’t know how long they can hang on,” he said.

    For Bettman the strategy now is clear: there’s an election coming up and of course this Nenshi guy wants to get re-elected. So the thing to do is to let Calgarians know their mayor is entirely to blame for the Flames’ problems, and that he will be the go-to villain if the team decides to leave town.

    -


    When Edmonton was debating its arena, “the fact of the matter was I was in constant contact with Mayor (Stephen) Mandel and Daryl, and I always believed that would get done,” he told the Edmonton Sun’s Eric Francis. “This couldn’t be more opposite.”

    Mandel, you see, is a good mayor. Nenshi is a bad mayor. Nenshi’s ideas are “just not from the real world.” Calgary needs a smarter mayor, one from the real world. Someone who knows when to go along with clever businessmen and hockey team owners. If Calgary voters aren’t smart enough to provide that… well, sure would be a shame if something happened to their hockey team, get my drift? They might just pack up their shin pads and toddle off to someplace that appreciates them more, like maybe Seattle.

    Yeah… Seattle. Or Kansas. I bet they don’t elect troublemakers like Nenshi in Wichita. I bet they elect smart fellas, the sort who know how to reach a deal. And who understand that, when Gary Bettman comes to town, he expects to deal with people from the real world. Come election day, he’ll be watching. Don’t let him down Calgary. Rubes never do.
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/kell...-bettmans-skin
    Well, the Edmonton downtown arena became a part of Mayor Mandel's downtown revitalization vision here fairly early on, so there was always the sense he wanted it to move forward even when the disputes about who pays what got quite nasty (and it did get nasty at times here too).

    I don't know if there is a vision from Nenshi in Calgary on this yet and if there is, either the NHL isn't aware of it or they are not buying it. The middle of an election is not a good time to try force a deal, it just turns into a big ugly political debate. Maybe the Flames owners think Nenshi's main opponent will be easier to deal with and they are hoping they can tip things that way in the election, but this could also badly backfire on them too. If Nenshi gets re-elected he may not feel that kindly about what the owners said and did in the election to undermine him. I don't think Betman much cares what any mayor thinks of him and the negotiation is mostly between the team owners and the city.

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    Also, Nenshi is but one vote in whatever decision has to be made about the arena. Sure, he could be replaced, but if everyone else votes against it then it'll still fail.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    He could face a very hostile divided council that could stall any arena deal for years.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    It is quite probable Nenshi won't be re-elected though...

    PS: Bill Smith ... really? Can't Calgary come up with something original (yah I know it's an extremely common name).
    https://globalnews.ca/news/3790611/c...r-mayors-seat/

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    I saw on social media that the Flames had a big "Elect Bill Smith" sign on the scoreboard at a recent game. Calgary's mayoralty election will be more interesting, no doubt.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  63. #563

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    It is quite probable Nenshi won't be re-elected though...

    PS: Bill Smith ... really? Can't Calgary come up with something original (yah I know it's an extremely common name).
    https://globalnews.ca/news/3790611/c...r-mayors-seat/
    What's really strange is there are polls each way - showing a big lead for Nenshi, or for Smith. Lots of drama, and some recent "scandals" re Bill Smith and creditor action against him, or claims Nenshi was inappropriately suggesting racisim against him.

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    In Edmonton generally, who gives a crap about Cowtown elections? The local ones here are raising little more than a snoozefest.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  65. #565

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    ^If NDP wants to win next election, they need to win a lot of seats in Calgary. There has been some suggestion if Nenshi loses, its a very bad sign for them, but if he wins, there is still a glimmer of hope. Its interesting, a progressive mayor being challenged by a darling of more conservative business. Edmonton's quite different, because Iveson has just done exactly what any developer has wanted, so he hasn't sparked the rebellion that Nenshi has.
    Last edited by moahunter; 16-10-2017 at 05:43 PM.

  66. #566

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    Hey! Is today election day? I remember hearing something about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    In Edmonton generally, who gives a crap about Cowtown elections? The local ones here are raising little more than a snoozefest.
    This Calgary election may have some effects on Edmonton. Iveson and Nenshi are strong allies and have been collaborating on a few things such the new city charters with the province, who knows what Smith's attitude is towards any of that. The Flames have turned the new arena into an election issue, so any decisions on that will have consequences on Rogers Place in terms of attracting major touring acts and the possbile Winter Olympics bid.
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 17-10-2017 at 07:43 AM.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    If Nenshi loses, its sending a message to the NDP and to the Liberals..
    Nenshi is way too busy pushing his brand..he never meets camera he doesnt like, kind of like McKeen!

    I didnt have a clue who Bill Smith was, but somewhere I said I liked what Bill Smith had to say, and he was talking about the purple people eater..

    Calgary, we have already had a Bill Smith..good luck!

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    Looks like Nenshi has a healthy lead: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ENqqjQOHwbvYCg
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Harsh.

    https://twitter.com/markusoff/status/920159476878950400

    Flames communications director tweets some ungoodwill about Nenshi.

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Harsh.

    https://twitter.com/markusoff/status/920159476878950400

    Flames communications director tweets some ungoodwill about Nenshi.

    I guess he doesn't like Nenshi..?I can't believe they ran out of ballots or that people walked away from huge line ups..
    What was the Edmonton turn out?
    It was busy in St Albert...

  72. #572
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    Nenshi wins again.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    https://twitter.com/mchernos/status/916884505729703936

    This ad has been shown at all Flames home games so far this season.

  74. #574

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Iveson and Nenshi are strong allies and have been collaborating on a few things such the new city charters with the province
    Well, both of the mayors have another 4 years to finish this job (hopefully they do).

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    So much for the Shames and their new arena. They may have better luck with Balzac. Seems like there is a lot going on there. How about Cochrane Flames or Chestermere Flames. If they announce the purchase of land on the edge of town maybe Calgary would come around and make a deal. It worked here with Enoch.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 17-10-2017 at 10:14 AM.

  76. #576

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    So much for the Shames and their new arena. They may have better luck with Balzac. Seems like there is a lot going on there. How about Cochrane Flames or Chestermere Flames. If they announce the purchase of land on the edge of town maybe Calgary would come around and make a deal. It worked here with Enoch.
    I don't see it happening, the Flames rely on corporate head office boxes and similar, and virtually all of those are in Calgary downtown. There is no way they are moving from their key customers. It interesting to think the NHL is trying to play hardball when this is the 11th most profitable NHL franchise even in an old run down arena (no way Seattle would match that), yet the NHL will keep pumping money into the failed franchise in Arizona.

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    Where will the Flames host Ken King's goodbye party?
    ... gobsmacked

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    ^ How 'bout Rogers?
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  79. #579

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It worked here with Enoch.
    No actually, that had no influence at all. Katz and the Oilers always wanted a downtown area. Enoch suggested they could build an arena out there, and both the Oilers and the city of Edmonton laughed.

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    And the Envision Edmonton crowd salivated at just how convenient that location would have been, right off the Henday!

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    The Flames and city of Calgary are going to have to work harder to find an equitable funding solution, just like Edmonton did.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    The Flames have bumbled this from the start, and Nenshi may have actually benefitted from their open support for a candidate that had zero vision, no policy or platform to speak of, and tried to run a dirty campaign.

    Nobody appreciates being held for ransom. The Flames situation in Calgary is far different than the situation here. I'm not convinced we got a good deal, but the impact is undeniable. Unfortunately Katz seems to believe he owns everything, and wants any economic benefit to benefit him and no-one else. He wants the whole pie, but he wants someone else to pay for most of it.

    The irony of the threat to move to Seattle is hard to miss, because I believe their arena was built with mostly private money. As were arenas in Montreal and Toronto if memory serves me. Seattle stood their ground, and ultimately the Sonics moved to Oklahoma. Seattle had an initiative that states, generally, that any investment in a sports facility would need to generate a return in excess of investing in bonds, or something like that.

    They rejected the increased tax revenue model, as it was shown that increases in tax revenues were usually at the expense of revenues from some other part of the city.

    The Flames just made themselves look like a bunch of idiots. Could hardly have handled it worse. Backfired in epic fashion. Some of their most ardent fans have turned on them, and I don't blame them.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  84. #584

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    The Flames have bumbled this from the start, and Nenshi may have actually benefitted from their open support for a candidate that had zero vision, no policy or platform to speak of, and tried to run a dirty campaign.

    Nobody appreciates being held for ransom. The Flames situation in Calgary is far different than the situation here. I'm not convinced we got a good deal, but the impact is undeniable. Unfortunately Katz seems to believe he owns everything, and wants any economic benefit to benefit him and no-one else. He wants the whole pie, but he wants someone else to pay for most of it.

    The irony of the threat to move to Seattle is hard to miss, because I believe their arena was built with mostly private money. As were arenas in Montreal and Toronto if memory serves me. Seattle stood their ground, and ultimately the Sonics moved to Oklahoma. Seattle had an initiative that states, generally, that any investment in a sports facility would need to generate a return in excess of investing in bonds, or something like that.

    They rejected the increased tax revenue model, as it was shown that increases in tax revenues were usually at the expense of revenues from some other part of the city.

    The Flames just made themselves look like a bunch of idiots. Could hardly have handled it worse. Backfired in epic fashion. Some of their most ardent fans have turned on them, and I don't blame them.
    I think with all their money and supposed power, the Flames owners truly don't get politics. It is actually quite simple - the people who support Nenshi or were likely to support him (and many other voters) are not that enthusiastic about the city footing most of the bill for a new arena. The owners huffed and puffed and threatened and tried to do all they could in their power to force Nenshi to capitulate, but it was not going to happen during the election period. Now, Nenshi is probably more than a little miffed at them for all the political trouble they tried to cause him. If the owners were smart they would have just dropped bringing up the issue during the election and quietly picked up the negotiations 6 months later. It would have avoided a lot of bad will from both the public and elsewhere.

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    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon
    The NHL wouldn't allow for the relocation of a top 10 revenue generating team.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

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    Globe & Mail, Oct 6
    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36521316/

    Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp. (CSEC), which owns the Flames and other sports teams, made its first arena offer to the city in a letter and two-page list of terms Feb. 21. The documents provide a glimpse of the club's vision for a complex more extensive than just an arena.

    As part of the proposal, the Flames' owners insisted on receiving an option to buy and develop land near the events complex, a slice of the Stampede Casino's revenue, all parking revenue from major events it would manage at the events complex and other goodies. The demands included the city of Calgary covering the cost of flood insurance, reimbursing the club for all provincial property taxes that may be imposed on the facilities, and requiring local ratepayers to pick up the bill for a public gathering place suitable for festivals next to the arena.
    In the February offer, CSEC demanded an "option to acquire adjacent lands for the purpose of constructing residential or commercial structures including high-density housing, hotels, restaurants, etc.," the term sheet said. The group also said it needs to "approve" Calgary's master plan to revitalize Victoria Park to "ensure it will be an appropriate environment" for the arena complex.
    Mr. King, at a news conference last month, said CSEC has partnered with a developer and someone is interested in building an office tower, although he did not provide more detail.
    The hockey club has argued the arena would attract development and therefore benefit the city because it could then collect property taxes. Murray Edwards, one of the Flames' most powerful owners, is familiar with the property game. He owns three ski resorts in British Columbia – mountains dotted with accommodations and development.
    The Flames' owners, according to the term sheet, envision a 19,000-seat event centre and adjoining 5,000-seat practice facility, including sufficient parking. Under the Flames terms, the complex would include a "public gathering place adjacent to the facilities for public participation in festivals, celebrations and outdoor/indoor events" built at the city's expense.
    The Flames' owners also wanted the city to waive public transit fees for people who held a valid ticket to "any event" at the arena and practice centre, according to the document. Calgary would also provide police services "commensurate with" other facilities in North America.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  88. #588

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    Wow. Why don't they just ask for a veto vote on any council vote in perpetuity. These guys basically want everything given to them at the taxpayer's expense. No wonder they're not getting any respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon

    The NHL wouldn't allow for the relocation of a top 10 revenue generating team.
    I didn't know that, not much point in threatening to leave then...

  90. #590

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I didn't know that, not much point in threatening to leave then...
    I mean, the same transparent schtick worked so well to loosen the purse strings in Edmonton it's not surprising they trotted it out.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  91. #591

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Wow. Why don't they just ask for a veto vote on any council vote in perpetuity. These guys basically want everything given to them at the taxpayer's expense. No wonder they're not getting any respect.
    Yup. They are giving absolutely no consideration to the state of the economy, the question of why billionaires need a subsidy, and why a downtown arena is needed when the Saddle dome is already one / area is already rejuvenating. Calgary has made a reasonable 1/3rd 1/3rd 1/3rd offer, but the Flames think they automatically deserve the same deal as per Edmonton (which was closer to 50:50).

  92. #592

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I didn't know that, not much point in threatening to leave then...
    I mean, the same transparent schtick worked so well to loosen the purse strings in Edmonton it's not surprising they trotted it out.
    I don't think that schtick had much bearing on the decisions made. Mandel long saw a downtown arena as way to revitalize downtown Edmonton

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    And to think one of the Flames' most powerful owners has been posting here on C2E all along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon
    The NHL wouldn't allow for the relocation of a top 10 revenue generating team.
    According to Ken King, they're now a bottom 10 team or will be shortly. Whether that's actually true and how much of that is due to the general economy vs. revenue generating limitations of the Saddledome is obviously not clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon
    The NHL wouldn't allow for the relocation of a top 10 revenue generating team.
    According to Ken King, they're now a bottom 10 team or will be shortly. Whether that's actually true and how much of that is due to the general economy vs. revenue generating limitations of the Saddledome is obviously not clear.
    I wonder how much of that is simply currency? Nenshi I believe, said Edmonton is 10 (with the new Arena), Flames are 11 (with the Saddeldome). The argument won't really hold water if Edmonton drops just like Calgary.

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    Whoops, yeah, I should have mentioned currency as well. But that impact would be the same on all the Canadian clubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon
    'Cept there's really nowhere for them to go. Seattle is already tagged for an expansion franchise at $500 million - no way the owners let Murray Edwards take his ball there. I know, Saskatoon!
    ... gobsmacked

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    heh, you don't think that the NHL would absolutely love to have a team in Houston, along with Seattle?

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...-team-houston/

    Houston would make a ton of sense for a variety of reasons. It's close to the Californian teams, along with Arizona, Vegas and Colorado. So lot's of opportunity for divisional rivalry. It would help with the E/W balance in the league. And it's a huge TV market, which factors in to team location massively for the NHL. It would love to get TV deals in the ballpark of what the other major sports leagues do, and not being in markets like Houston, Atlanta, and Seattle.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 19-10-2017 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon
    'Cept there's really nowhere for them to go. Seattle is already tagged for an expansion franchise at $500 million - no way the owners let Murray Edwards take his ball there. I know, Saskatoon!
    You think Murray Edwards is loyal to Calgary? Why do you think CNRL is so successful? It's because they are the biggest shin-chiseling oil company out there and he doesn't give a crap about loyalty at all. He lives in London for Chrissake's. Anyway, he would bail faster than a w#$re dropping her drawers. Houston, Seattle Flames here we come....

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I wonder how everyone would feel about Nenshi, if indeed the flames go elsewhere. The trickle down effect from them leaving , would be felt very soon
    Well Nenshi said he never left the table and is still there if the Flames want to come back, so if they went elsewhere he would have a good case he was not to blame.

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