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Thread: R100 St Funicular/Stairway & Frederick G. Todd Lookout/Elevator/Stairwell - Complete

  1. #1001

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    She makes some good points but is a bit confused, or has confused me, as she talks about both the funicular and the elevator but says the funicular is ridiculous when it’s the elevator that is out of commission due to mechanical problems while the funicular is apparently operating as designed.

    However she says this: “The funicular also gets finicky when it’s too snowy and windy. And so it too keeps malfunctioning.” That seems like something with an easy fix. Then the problem with the buttons sounds like a signage issue.

    Now, the funicular might not operate below -25 but how many people with mobility problems will seek to go down into the valley at -25 or lower? Yes universal 24/7/365 access would be nice but at what added cost and what added benefit? (Eg we don’t run all our buses on all their routes all the time).

    Paying $5 million for the funicular might not have been enough for premium service but at that it was broadly criticized.


    Mechanical woes taking all the fun out of Edmonton’s funicular | Edmonton Journal

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...downs-than-ups
    Last edited by KC; 06-03-2018 at 09:06 AM.

  2. #1002

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    Just like the Metro line - working out the kinks....

  3. #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Yeah I don't remember jumping in elevators ever being a thing decades ago. Stop button on escalators was always happening.

    But this is kind of the problem with such out of sight infrastructure and what is NOT on site security. By the time any security responds to a disturbance its done. WE can't have one rent a cop immediately stationed and patrolling the infrastructure?



    Yeah, Top_Dawg loves it.

    How old is this thing ?

    Three months ?

    Classic.

    So where are all the chin strap dildos who said there would be no problems with mischief, vandalism, and deliberate misuse ?


  4. #1004

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    Adding in costs per article below - so I’ve got $6.5 million out of $24 million. That’s 27% of the total project cost so far that could be blamed on the mobility impaired needs. (Including people trying to get their bikes, strollers, etc up the bank.)

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...downs-than-ups

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    $24mil, COE contribution $1.7.
    That includes the staircase next to it too doesn’t it? Didn't this project essentially include four pieces with justification for the funicular being the need for accessibility for all?

    1) a funicular: $5 million
    2) a staircase or two: ____$?_____
    3) a shared walkway(overpass)
    - 50% for the funicular users: ____$?_____
    - 50% for the staircase users: ____$?_____
    4) an elevator - $1.5 million

    ========
    $24 million
    ___________

    So what was the cost of the funicular itself?
    (Though, I guess the elevator should also be included as that’s also necessary for full accessibility. )

    In the future ridership/total user numbers should be able to allocate notional values of the bridge/walkway between needed for funicular users and needed for able bodied.
    Last edited by KC; 06-03-2018 at 09:21 AM.

  5. #1005

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Yeah I don't remember jumping in elevators ever being a thing decades ago. Stop button on escalators was always happening.

    But this is kind of the problem with such out of sight infrastructure and what is NOT on site security. By the time any security responds to a disturbance its done. WE can't have one rent a cop immediately stationed and patrolling the infrastructure?



    Yeah, Top_Dawg loves it.

    How old is this thing ?

    Three months ?

    Classic.

    So where are all the chin strap dildos who said there would be no problems with mischief, vandalism, and deliberate misuse ?

    Yeah, no good deed goes unpunished or un-criticized.

  6. #1006

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    How much time is required?

    This thing has been in total operation only 2 days out of the whole time its been open. Just ridiculous. The elevator at the bottom is once again closed indefinitely.

    What is absolutely becoming clear is that a system designed to get handicapped or mobility lacking people to the river valley is impossible to depend on. What happens if somebody with mobility impairment gets stuck somewhere on route with cold weather. What is the emergency response time to help such people?

    This is also being touted as a way for cyclists, river trail users etc to get up and down. it is difficult to carry a bike up the stairs, there are very few bike locks at the bottom, and people could be stuck at the top or bottom of this system unexpectedly.

    For this complete system to be open only 2 days so far is a complete joke. Theres no timeline on when the elevator will actually be reopened. Do we miss another summer of use of this system?

    This system is not a reliable conveyance. Its not going to build up ridership if its seen as haphazard, mostly out of service.

    It sucks as well that the elevator portion will not be in operation for the Red Bull event wherein a lot of tourists might check out the funicular line and want to take the trip all the way to the river valley.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  7. #1007

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Yeah I don't remember jumping in elevators ever being a thing decades ago. Stop button on escalators was always happening.

    But this is kind of the problem with such out of sight infrastructure and what is NOT on site security. By the time any security responds to a disturbance its done. WE can't have one rent a cop immediately stationed and patrolling the infrastructure?



    Yeah, Top_Dawg loves it.

    How old is this thing ?

    Three months ?

    Classic.

    So where are all the chin strap dildos who said there would be no problems with mischief, vandalism, and deliberate misuse ?

    Yep, and you remember we were talking about this very thing. We can't have nice unsupervised things in the River Valley. This was imminently clear with any view of the denizens that were frequenting this very area prior to the funicular being built.

    lol that it turns out that the manufacturer makes mostly funiculars that have an operator (seems like a good idea for the area in question) and the city, in a supposed cost saving gesture specifically demanded the unmanned product. The one that wouldn't have somebody operating it and preventing most of the problems that have been happening.

    Ultimately I can already see whats going to happen here. There will be no choice but the city to hire an operator just to stand around and make sure people aren't screwing with the buttons, and another patrolling or staffing the lower elevator. The city will reduce operational hours due to staffing costs and to ***** proof this system.
    So that the city thought they saved money buying the more expensive (automatic) funicular option but will now invariably have to eat added staffing costs on this as well. For however long they feel like running this gadget until they moth ball it again.

    The last Funicular Edmonton had ran about 5yrs. Was almost totally forgot about that Edmonton ever had one until they decided to build this one. Whats the over/under on how long this one survives COE operational cuts.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  8. #1008

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    Almost every 'bright new idea' this city council and management has turns to ****. We've seen it here, we've seen it with bike lanes, bridges, and LRT. We're seeing it now with the city hall community pool and proposed river valley development that will likely go through. But Edmontonians basically ask for it. They never sufficiently punish their reps at the ballot box.

  9. #1009

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    ^ Agreed

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  10. #1010

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Almost every 'bright new idea' this city council and management has turns to ****. We've seen it here, we've seen it with bike lanes, bridges, and LRT. We're seeing it now with the city hall community pool and proposed river valley development that will likely go through. But Edmontonians basically ask for it. They never sufficiently punish their reps at the ballot box.
    Have you ever considered that perhaps - just perhaps - this is because the majority of people don't agree with you? Shocking thought, I know.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  11. #1011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Paula Simons et al need to take a deep breath and give this thing a chance. Her column this morning is like reviewing a restaurant the first week it's open.... give it time to work out the kinks before you start criticizing.
    How much time is required?

    This thing has been in total operation only 2 days out of the whole time its been open. Just ridiculous. The elevator at the bottom is once again closed indefinitely.

    What is absolutely becoming clear is that a system designed to get handicapped or mobility lacking people to the river valley is impossible to depend on. What happens if somebody with mobility impairment gets stuck somewhere on route with cold weather. What is the emergency response time to help such people?

    This is also being touted as a way for cyclists, river trail users etc to get up and down. it is difficult to carry a bike up the stairs, there are very few bike locks at the bottom, and people could be stuck at the top or bottom of this system unexpectedly.

    For this complete system to be open only 2 days so far is a complete joke. Theres no timeline on when the elevator will actually be reopened. Do we miss another summer of use of this system?

    This system is not a reliable conveyance. Its not going to build up ridership if its seen as haphazard, mostly out of service.

    It sucks as well that the elevator portion will not be in operation for the Red Bull event wherein a lot of tourists might check out the funicular line and want to take the trip all the way to the river valley.
    This is our first system of this type in our city, so I would argue a little more than a couple of months (especially when it's in the middle of winter) is warranted. I certainly don't think that it is "absolutely becoming clear" this system can't be depended on. This is a fairly complex machine that started operating in the middle of winter. Let's just give it a bit of time before we bring out the pitchforks and torches, shall we?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  12. #1012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ Agreed

    Yes, but this does not get to the core admin of this Civic Administration which is unelected, inefficient, noncommunicative, unhelpful, and tenured. Its the administrative end that seems to be the worst and that are involved in the chronic bad decisions which perpetuate through elected City councils.

    We don't even impact what is most rotten to the core at COE. We chip away at it. A firing here and there, a Farbrother canned. But the disease remains very much intact in the closed shop COE.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  13. #1013

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Almost every 'bright new idea' this city council and management has turns to ****. We've seen it here, we've seen it with bike lanes, bridges, and LRT. We're seeing it now with the city hall community pool and proposed river valley development that will likely go through. But Edmontonians basically ask for it. They never sufficiently punish their reps at the ballot box.
    Have you ever considered that perhaps - just perhaps - this is because the majority of people don't agree with you? Shocking thought, I know.
    If only it was a matter of opinion. If only. But so often I'm proven right.

    I knew the painted bike lanes they installed years ago were a bad idea. They nonetheless spent millions putting them in and then, yes, later taking them out.

    I had reservations about the suicide barriers on the high level, though I am sympathetic and understand why they did it. But of course city council disappointed me by screwing it up and making the bridge sidewalk narrower and terrible to bike on.

    I knew it was absolutely stupid to have year-round 'playground zones' throughout the city where you have to slow down or get a ticket. I swear to god, outside of school I almost literally never see kids on playgrounds in the winter, much less the ones that are next to my place. Much less in the dark evenings.

    If I had more time, I'd go on. I could right an essay, for instance, on the traffic calming schemes in this city. But I have noticed one commonality to all this. Usually, the things that turn out the worst are those that are done at the behest of a special interest group and that generally ignore the wishes of the majority.

  14. #1014

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    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  15. #1015
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    I think its hilarious! Poor Edmonton taxpayers...

  16. #1016

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I think its hilarious! Poor Edmonton taxpayers...
    You mean Canadian Taxpayers. It was mostly paid for by Federal dollars.

  17. #1017

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    My favourite "Playground Zone" has to be on 109 Street south of 23rd Avenue on the east side of Kaskitayo Park. Brilliant.

    For "traffic calming" may I suggest 106 Street between 76 Avenue and 51 Avenue that is only slightly better now than when they made the portion next to the cemetery one-way!

    As for bike lanes, don't get me started....
    Last edited by The Man From YEG; 06-03-2018 at 11:05 AM.

  18. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post

    If only it was a matter of opinion. If only. But so often I'm proven right.

    I knew the painted bike lanes they installed years ago were a bad idea. They nonetheless spent millions putting them in and then, yes, later taking them out.

    I had reservations about the suicide barriers on the high level, though I am sympathetic and understand why they did it. But of course city council disappointed me by screwing it up and making the bridge sidewalk narrower and terrible to bike on.

    I knew it was absolutely stupid to have year-round 'playground zones' throughout the city where you have to slow down or get a ticket. I swear to god, outside of school I almost literally never see kids on playgrounds in the winter, much less the ones that are next to my place. Much less in the dark evenings.

    If I had more time, I'd go on. I could right an essay, for instance, on the traffic calming schemes in this city. But I have noticed one commonality to all this. Usually, the things that turn out the worst are those that are done at the behest of a special interest group and that generally ignore the wishes of the majority.
    Yeah, Top_Dawg hears ya.

    And more recently there was the ' Imagine Jasper ' fiasco.

    http://edmontonsun.com/2017/08/25/gu...7-5088eb13e355

    Top_Dawg loves the way ol' Gunter put it.

    " The picnic tables cluttering up the parking lanes between 109 Street and 115 Street look like outdoor seating at a homeless shelter, although even the homeless have the good sense not to use them. "

  19. #1019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    I think its hilarious! Poor Edmonton taxpayers...
    You mean Canadian Taxpayers. It was mostly paid for by Federal dollars.

    uuuhhh, Edmonton taxpayers pay Federal taxes in many ways including each time they gas up and each April.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  20. #1020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ Agreed

    Yes, but this does not get to the core admin of this Civic Administration which is unelected, inefficient, noncommunicative, unhelpful, and tenured. Its the administrative end that seems to be the worst and that are involved in the chronic bad decisions which perpetuate through elected City councils.

    We don't even impact what is most rotten to the core at COE. We chip away at it. A firing here and there, a Farbrother canned. But the disease remains very much intact in the closed shop COE.
    You get no argument from me on those points.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  21. #1021

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    I fear that they are going to have another round of "improving Jasper Avenue" from the Shaw Convention Centre to 109 Street soon.

  22. #1022

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    No, I don't think I would have an easy time winning because as I've said, the people of Edmonton rarely punish council for its decisions. Furthermore, the main thing that matters during civic elections is name recognition and incumbency. You've seen what goes on. How is one fresh face supposed to win when there are a zillion other fresh faces because the cost of entering the race is so low? It happens, but not enough.

  23. #1023

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    No, I don't think I would have an easy time winning because as I've said, the people of Edmonton rarely punish council for its decisions. Furthermore, the main thing that matters during civic elections is name recognition and incumbency. You've seen what goes on. How is one fresh face supposed to win when there are a zillion other fresh faces because the cost of entering the race is so low? It happens, but not enough.
    Three new councillors were just elected, two of which had very low name recognition. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, that's fine, but don't blame Edmonton voters for it. One might say that the reason Edmontonians 'rarely punish council for its decision' is because Edmontonians are largely happy with the overall direction of the city. Or you can just blame our civic elections system. That's easier.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  24. #1024

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    And let me guess, the 'special interest' groups you speak off are pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you and 'the majority' are people who do agree with you. I've met a lot of people over my years who believe things are not 'a matter of opinion' and that they are always proven right on things. All I can say is, good for you. Maybe you should run for office then. If you're so brilliant and represent the majority then you'll have an easy time winning....right?
    No, I don't think I would have an easy time winning because as I've said, the people of Edmonton rarely punish council for its decisions. Furthermore, the main thing that matters during civic elections is name recognition and incumbency. You've seen what goes on. How is one fresh face supposed to win when there are a zillion other fresh faces because the cost of entering the race is so low? It happens, but not enough.
    Three new councillors were just elected, two of which had very low name recognition. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, that's fine, but don't blame Edmonton voters for it. One might say that the reason Edmontonians 'rarely punish council for its decision' is because Edmontonians are largely happy with the overall direction of the city. Or you can just blame our civic elections system. That's easier.
    Only one new councillor managed to unseat an incumbent. And then only barely. The first time since 2007.

  25. #1025

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I fear that they are going to have another round of "improving Jasper Avenue" from the Shaw Convention Centre to 109 Street soon.
    How true...

    Probably a plan to run a LRT line at grade down Jasper Ave. All because the engineers looked and did not see a line down the street. Sort of like the first funicular in Edmonton that they just completed.

    Because there was not another one in Edmonton (or at least not another one they could see within 300 meters.)


    Shaw funicular and staircase and escalator

    https://www.emporis.com/images/detai...cular-elevator J. Louis Baillargeon

    https://twitter.com/yegfunicular
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  26. #1026

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    Well, if incumbents make such terrible decisions you should be able to wow people with your brilliance pretty easily.... or you can wait until there is a councillor who retires, which happens fairly often.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  27. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Three new councillors were just elected, two of which had very low name recognition. If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, that's fine, but don't blame Edmonton voters for it. One might say that the reason Edmontonians 'rarely punish council for its decision' is because Edmontonians are largely happy with the overall direction of the city. Or you can just blame our civic elections system. That's easier.


    Not to quibble but four new abortionists were elected in the most recent election.

    And Top_Dawg sees no evidence of Emmonites being happy.

    The evidence shows that the overwhelming majority of them just don't give a rat's snatch.

    Almost 70% didn't bother to vote.

  28. #1028

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    Friday, March 9, 2018
    A few people were using around 7:50. Both the funicular and elevator we're working.




  29. #1029
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    Looks like the funicular hours are 7:00 am to 9:00 pm.
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  30. #1030

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    ^It changes related to daylight. So that in summer it should be open later.

    I think they want to avoid operation in pitch dark and also people using the facility in the dark when the area could be perceived as less secure.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Especially weather like this past weekend, hugely popular attraction.

    Would it be too much to ask the City allow a few well placed coffee / food stands along the trail?
    ... gobsmacked

  33. #1033

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    ^ Is there any interest by businesses? Look at the short life of Burrow in the Central LRT Station area downtown. If one believes that safety issues led to its demise I can only imagine the problems at the Funicular.

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    ^^I'd love to see a hot dog/coffee cart at the top.
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  35. #1035

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    I would think the DBA would be a likely candidate!

  36. #1036

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    Generously, there are 20 people in those photographs. How could that possibly be considered a "hugely popular attraction"? Especially on the nicest day of the year. There were 1000 people lined up outside the new mall on a Friday. That might accurately be described as a "hugely popular attraction". As for a hot dog cart, you wouldn't be doing an especially brisk business by the looks of things.

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    ^^i'd work that only if I get to wear a hotdog shaped hat.

    ^^It was consistently steady all day long. I'd guess 30-40 people there at most times on a busy day with good turnover. Curious to know what a nice Saturday draws, but certainly in the hundreds, let alone for actual commuters/users.
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  38. #1038
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    20 people in what, a 3 minute window when those pics were taken?

    I think the issue is that it's not necessarily an 'attraction'. We need to think of it as a park, or like the Glenora stairs. Hugely popular simply for performing their function. Not hugely popular in the sense that there has to be crowd control measures put in place. And for the record, it's easy to get a crowd of 1000 to line up anywhere if you're giving out $50 gift cards and flight vouchers.

  39. #1039

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    ^^^Just tape a couple of wieners to your bike helmet

  40. #1040

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    I was out on Sunday, and traffic at the funicular was steady. I saw a group of cyclists using it to get to street level. I also saw an example that is the ultimate justification for the funicular; a boy out with his family, who had some kind of mobility difficulty, happily bounced along in the middle of his four wheel assistance walker and rolled onto the funicular, heading down to the valley that was now accessible to him. Brought a little tear of happiness to my eye

    May 6, 2018





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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Especially weather like this past weekend, hugely popular attraction.

    Would it be too much to ask the City allow a few well placed coffee / food stands along the trail?
    Oh, I'm sure the dilapidated BC CHERRY trailer on River Valley Road will be in operation any day now. Because nothing says "Big City Amenity" better than a rusted out trailer in a dirt parking lot.

  42. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Especially weather like this past weekend, hugely popular attraction.

    Would it be too much to ask the City allow a few well placed coffee / food stands along the trail?
    Oh, I'm sure the dilapidated BC CHERRY trailer on River Valley Road will be in operation any day now. Because nothing says "Big City Amenity" better than a rusted out trailer in a dirt parking lot.
    You can always check out the new Civeo restaurant at Victoria Golf course. Providing the finest camp food available!

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    Actually, I was at Riverside on Saturday. $5 for a terrible hot dog that took 10 minutes because they didn't have any ready (at 11:45 am with a full tee sheet on a beautiful Saturday), both ketchup and mustard were basically empty, no other toppings and $4 for a 500ml Coke. I'd probably have paid the $8.50 for a beer, but they didn't have any as they haven't sorted out their liquor license yet.

    *slow clap*

    Those prices are 20% or so higher than at private courses, by the way. Pretty sure a Steamwhistle supercan at the Edmonton Country Club is $7.50.

    And yes, off topic, I'll take it to the appropriate thread.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 07-05-2018 at 06:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    ^^^Just tape a couple of wieners to your bike helmet
    Send me a selfie;p
    Last edited by IanO; 07-05-2018 at 06:50 PM.
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  45. #1045

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Actually, I was at Riverside on Saturday. $5 for a terrible hot dog that took 10 minutes because they didn't have any ready (at 11:45 am with a full tee sheet on a beautiful Saturday), both ketchup and mustard were basically empty, no other toppings and $4 for a 500ml Coke. I'd probably have paid the $8.50 for a beer, but they didn't have any as they haven't sorted out their liquor license yet.

    *slow clap*

    Those prices are 20% or so higher than at private courses, by the way. Pretty sure a Steamwhistle supercan at the Edmonton Country Club is $7.50.

    And yes, off topic, I'll take it to the appropriate thread.
    Marcel

    I fail to sympathize with you.

    Anyone who wants to put ketchup on a hot dog is either 5 years old or wants to be...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  46. #1046
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    LOL

    Mustard and onions only... unless you are Chi-Town.
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  47. #1047

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    Don't forget the sauerkraut.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  48. #1048

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    Yep, mustard, onions and sauerkraut. No ketchup.

  49. #1049
    Plug C2E into my veins!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Actually, I was at Riverside on Saturday. $5 for a terrible hot dog that took 10 minutes because they didn't have any ready (at 11:45 am with a full tee sheet on a beautiful Saturday), both ketchup and mustard were basically empty, no other toppings and $4 for a 500ml Coke. I'd probably have paid the $8.50 for a beer, but they didn't have any as they haven't sorted out their liquor license yet.

    *slow clap*

    Those prices are 20% or so higher than at private courses, by the way. Pretty sure a Steamwhistle supercan at the Edmonton Country Club is $7.50.

    And yes, off topic, I'll take it to the appropriate thread.
    That’s shameful. Embarrassing really. Enough to stop me from ever going back.

  50. #1050

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    Funny how you can get a big hotdog and a fountain drink at Costco for only $2.00

    Isn't it nice to find out how badly you are being screwed?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  51. #1051

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    Not really funny at all - it's easy to give them away for a couple bucks when they're a loss leader.

    Enjoy feeling screwed though - some people like that, even looking for it when it isn't there.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  52. #1052

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    $4 for a Coke and you like that?

    At wholesale prices, you can buy a case of coke for under $4. Tell me what value added did you receive for a 1200% markup?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  53. #1053
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    We were on a beautiful riverside golf course, not in a parking lot big box.
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  54. #1054

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    So are the green fees a loss leader?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    $4 for a Coke and you like that?

    At wholesale prices, you can buy a case of coke for under $4. Tell me what value added did you receive for a 1200% markup?
    I don't think anyone likes it, but that doesn't matter that is the going price. That mark-up on a case of Coke is @ $4.00 is hundreds of percent. Do you like that? Buy it or don't, move on.

  56. #1056

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    ^^^Just tape a couple of wieners to your bike helmet
    Send me a selfie;p
    As you know, I don't own a bike helmet in Edmonton because I haven't wasted any money on a bike here. Despite the discouragement, I drive a vehicle to and from everywhere I need to go in this City including through the gauntlet of downtown where I work.

  57. #1057

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    THe mark-up on that same can of coke is also hundreds of percent at the $1.50 a can/$2.50 for a bottle that's enough for every other hole-in-the-wall, food truck and convenience store to make a reasonable profit.

    It's only the monopolies like sports venues that charge double that again.
    There can only be one.

  58. #1058
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    Better thread for the Red Table discussion: http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...647#post885647

  59. #1059

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    With the valley greening up nicely, the views from the Promontory(top platform), Funicular, and Lookout are coming into full bloom.

    I rode over from the Legislature on my bike past Telus Field, and took the trail over to the lookout elevator, and then took the funicular to the top. Made for a great trip without killing myself getting out of the valley at the end.

    I'm not downtown at lunch to check, but if someone hasn't done so already, the Promontory would be a nice place to park a food truck or a hot dog cart. You might want some signage on Jasper Ave pointing towards them to get people over there, but it'd be a great place to grab a bite to eat.

    The pics below start at the trail around the base of the elevator.

    Saturday, May 12, 2018



















  60. #1060

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    Thanks for the pics and update.
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  61. #1061
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    @ianoyeg
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  62. #1062

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    ^wow, busy.
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  63. #1063

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    Is there any wayfinding or map board at the lower exit of the elevator to guide people?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  64. #1064

  65. #1065

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    Good

    Thanks
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  66. #1066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Is there any wayfinding or map board at the lower exit of the elevator to guide people?
    This is adjacent to the bottom of the elevator and behind me is a directional sign.

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  67. #1067

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    Thanks again

    Looks like some super small font. I went to a art gallery in Ontario a few weeks ago. It drove me crazy that they had many of the information about the paintings in not only small font but white lettering on a red background or grey lettering on a beige background in the dimly lit corners. You saw people crowding around the labels, straining to read, a 3 or 4 hundred words on a 6" or 8" square when there is an expanse of bare wall. I talked with a few seniors who said it was nearly impossible to read anything and learn about the subject.

    Before I left, I went to the information desk and told the staffer how much I liked gallery but mentioned about the small font issues. She said it was the number one complaint they recieve for the 3 years she worked there. She had brought it up to management several times but they have not changed their practice.

    You wonder why?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  68. #1068
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    Having been there for this process, it was a balance between font size and amount of information. The larger map has larger fonts for key landmarks/destinations, whereas the list is smaller for more detail.
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  69. #1069
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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nton-1.4750354

    "The outdoor elevator was promoted as a way to make the river valley more accessible, but access to the funicular itself remains a challenge.
    The funicular takes visitors from the area around the Low Level Bridge, up the steep riverbank to 100th Street by the Fairmont Hotel Macdonald.
    Every day, people dart across 100th Street — and jaywalk — rather than walk up to the nearest crosswalk at Jasper Avenue.
    For instance, the city has some of the longest crosswalk light wait times in the country.
    "You can wait at an Edmonton crosswalk, push the button, and wait three times longer than in another Canadian city," Shield said."

  70. #1070

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    ^
    I took the funicular yesterday, and was thinking about jaywalking. I thought better of it, given the tight corner on McDougal Hill Road might make that lethal. I was thinking the lack of a lit cross walk at 100 ave reflected how car-centric this city still is.

  71. #1071

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nton-1.4750354

    "The outdoor elevator was promoted as a way to make the river valley more accessible, but access to the funicular itself remains a challenge.
    The funicular takes visitors from the area around the Low Level Bridge, up the steep riverbank to 100th Street by the Fairmont Hotel Macdonald.
    Every day, people dart across 100th Street — and jaywalk — rather than walk up to the nearest crosswalk at Jasper Avenue.
    For instance, the city has some of the longest crosswalk light wait times in the country.
    "You can wait at an Edmonton crosswalk, push the button, and wait three times longer than in another Canadian city," Shield said."
    “"The outdoor elevator was promoted as a way to make the river valley more accessible, but access to the funicular itself remains a challenge.”

    Proof that “no good deed goes unpunished.”


    As for jaywalkers avoiding long crosswalk delays and extra walking distance, I can empathize, as the reduced speed playground zones are delaying my travels by seconds as well. If they reduce entire neighborhood speed limits to 30 or 40 km/h I might suffer a delay possibly reaching a whole minute! I suppose it really is hard though to get out for some exercise when the thoughtless city planners insist on making one walk extra blocks to one’s planned exercise location. I bet the low frequency of the new funicular is also aggravating to those just trying to get out and get some exercise.
    Last edited by KC; 17-07-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  72. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    ^
    I took the funicular yesterday, and was thinking about jaywalking. I thought better of it, given the tight corner on McDougal Hill Road might make that lethal. I was thinking the lack of a lit cross walk at 100 ave reflected how car-centric this city still is.
    The city has a multi-use pedestrian bridge in the works, spanning from the Hotel Mac to McDonald Drive.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  73. #1073

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    ^
    I took the funicular yesterday, and was thinking about jaywalking. I thought better of it, given the tight corner on McDougal Hill Road might make that lethal. I was thinking the lack of a lit cross walk at 100 ave reflected how car-centric this city still is.
    The city has a multi-use pedestrian bridge in the works, spanning from the Hotel Mac to McDonald Drive.
    With anti-suicide fencing of course.

  74. #1074

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    ^
    I took the funicular yesterday, and was thinking about jaywalking. I thought better of it, given the tight corner on McDougal Hill Road might make that lethal. I was thinking the lack of a lit cross walk at 100 ave reflected how car-centric this city still is.
    The city has a multi-use pedestrian bridge in the works, spanning from the Hotel Mac to McDonald Drive.
    Cool! That would give direct access from the Telus bus station and plaza to the Funicular and the Hotel Mac, and could potentially link to the Skytram if it terminates there.

  75. #1075

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    ^The idea, if it makes it into the Downtown Public Place Plan, is to eventually connect Heritage trail over McDonald Drive and continue in front of Hotel Mac/Marriott to otherside.
    www.decl.org

  76. #1076
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    Correct, but years away.
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  77. #1077

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Correct, but years away.
    Working out the signalling system is holding things up.

  78. #1078

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    'Till then McDonald Dr. can just fester. I mean, it's so... old. We only like new shiny things. Existing infrastructure is to be sneered at and devalued.

    Nothing says "this was the exact right place to put this $20 million plus kiddie-carnival ride" like having to build even MORE infrastructure to simply access the thing.

    Can't wait till the sidewalks north of the Mac are blocked off for construction. Gong show.

  79. #1079

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    Why would the overpass not be concurrent to the construction of the Funicular or a priority at this time? The location of the Funicular, way back of the Mac, and far back off Jasper Avenue is curious without a pedestrian brdge connection or crossing.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  80. #1080

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Why would the overpass not be concurrent to the construction of the Funicular or a priority at this time? The location of the Funicular, way back of the Mac, and far back off Jasper Avenue is curious without a pedestrian brdge connection or crossing.
    OMG correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t you among those highly critical of the funicular in the first place and the length of time before it opened? Imagine adding millions more to the project and further construction and further delays in opening it for public use.

    Imagine adding another $5 or $10 million to the project cost. As it was people kept claiming that the funicular was wasting $20+ million. Imagine if that funicular was slated to cost $35 or $40 million! That with the added $5 or $10 million funicular cost being totally paid for by Edmontonians on a loser project with no offsetting federal cost sharing agreement.

  81. #1081

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Why would the overpass not be concurrent to the construction of the Funicular or a priority at this time? The location of the Funicular, way back of the Mac, and far back off Jasper Avenue is curious without a pedestrian brdge connection or crossing.
    OMG correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t you among those highly critical of the funicular in the first place and the length of time before it opened? Imagine adding millions more to the project and further construction and further delays in opening it for public use.

    Imagine adding another $5 or $10 million to the project cost. As it was people kept claiming that the funicular was wasting $20+ million. Imagine if that funicular was slated to cost $35 or $40 million! That with the added $5 or $10 million funicular cost being totally paid for by Edmontonians on a loser project with no offsetting federal cost sharing agreement.
    I was kind of responding to AjS. look at his comment. A large part of the critique of this was the pointless and out of the way and not too charming location. This was the well known stairway abode of street people and to a degree that not many people even liked going on that sidewalk for a smoke before.

    The silly aspect of the Funicular is how poorly it is situated and not connected to anything at street level. You have a narrow sidewalk bordering Mac property and busy traffic whizzing by you a foot away and that is the only DT entry. . Not many people like that entry point.

    ps I wasn/t aware a simple pedestrian crossing now cost 10M. Kind of amazing that it would.

    In anycase its not mutually exclusive to have not supported this endeavor but to now want it to at least be connected to something now that we do have it.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  82. #1082

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    Well $10 million is two funiculars, one on each side of the street, each rising up to meet each other high over the street.


    Anyway, it’s interesting the the criticism hasn't stopped but instead the criticism has just taken a new angle of attack:

    First it was the utter uselessness and wastefulness of funicular project itself.

    Now it’s that the approach isn’t convenient enough and can’t handle the volume of foot traffic.


    No mention that it’s location right next to a grand historic landmark hotel will mean it will get far more mention in travel discussions than it would otherwise. The location is quite synergistic in terms of the hotel, the theatre, the art gallery, the museum...


    As for better access, maybe they could create a nice walkway under the street via TELUS Plaza (is the lower level still there?)



    And of course there was this:

    McCauley Plaza new Grand Entry via Telus Tower's park
    27-04-2006

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...s-Tower-s-park
    Last edited by KC; 18-07-2018 at 01:04 AM.

  83. #1083

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    The specific location is a redundancy to the funicular already contained in SCC. That was the main opposition. So that there was always location specific opposition. Next there was criticism an outdoor funicular and elevator would require lots of maintenance and uncertainty in this climate how long it would last and how much it would require in maintenance, staffing when things go wrong. With Funicular buttongate some of this has already been realized. Yes people exist that will intentionally jam the Funicular by improper use of the buttons. Yes there are people that will not push the buttons properly.

    Another was that it doesn't connect with Jasper Ave in anycase and is kind of tucked away behind the Mac. Its very possible, even likely, that Tourists can't even find this the way it is situated. Also it isn't the job of Mac staff to wayfind for people. Nor has the Mac cooperated in the slightest for ease of use. For instance if the Mac even wanted its guests to use the Funicular they would allow direct entry to it from their back gardens, which they don't. Instead one has to traverse a narrow sidewalk with traffic whizzing buy which in spring or after any shower is almost guaranteed to get pedestrians sprayed by passing cars. Have you been to it. Its an unpleasant access point.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-07-2018 at 07:02 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  84. #1084
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    The Mac recently opened an entry to their patio about 25ft from the Funicular. Beautifully landscaped and with wayfinding. There's also wayfinding at the top of the Funicular and it's visible from Jasper Ave.

  85. #1085

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    The Mac recently opened an entry to their patio about 25ft from the Funicular. Beautifully landscaped and with wayfinding. There's also wayfinding at the top of the Funicular and it's visible from Jasper Ave.
    Thanks for the update Alex. That opening from Mac courtyard had not been there as recently as early spring. The fence enclosure had continued to prevent access. When did they do this, its good that they did. Is it a gate, code gate? I know the mac doesn't want non guests going to and from using their premises.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  86. #1086
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    It seemed like it was wide open during the day, but I could be mistaken. I think it's been open for a little over a month.

  87. #1087

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    It seemed like it was wide open during the day, but I could be mistaken. I think it's been open for a little over a month.
    They probably have a security camera on the gate. Combined with I haven't seen any pan handlers or anyone else harassing the people at the Funicular so far :knock on wood:, it likely means they can keep it open while the Funicular is open.

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