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Thread: Capilano Library | Planned

  1. #101
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    "we're not adverse to it being built just put it on 101 avenue and not in front of our houses."

    She can express her opinion and concerns to the city, reporters, photographers or whomever else she pleases. I made no comments about her opinions being invalid. I've encouraged others on this very forum to express their concerns regarding property to the city when they feel their property might be adversely affected by developments.

    Look at the quote above, that is pretty much literally NIMBY only with an F instead of a B. You could paraphrase that quote to Not in My Front Yard. So yes because she lives so close to the development and does not want it there she is a NIMBY. Just because someone is a NIMBY doesn't make them wrong but you can't get more NIMBY than this.

  2. #102
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    OK. Suppose there is a proposed development that is better placed at one end of a block rather than another for all sorts of reasons: existing transit, existing parking, eliminating a unsightly piece of property. Do all those reasons go away because the person pointing that out lives beside the proposed development?

    Also, this is based on a Journal article. I've had microphones stuck under my nose various times in my travels. And occasionally I've seen the resulting coverage. It's amazing how often all of the ensuing coverage includes only quotes from people who fit the reporter's narrative.

    Two examples: one was a "person on the street" interview about a recent constitutional issue. I gave them a coherent three or four paragraph summary of my opinion with a bit of chapter and verse. The story: That people on the street are woefully ignorant of current events. My little piece didn't make it. (We're not even going to discuss that the particular journalist was reading her questions from a typescript and had a hard time pronouncing the word "democracy".)

    Another example: I was at a gay rights event in Calgary. About two or three hundred people in attendance. Many speeches. Many intelligent people there. But in the corner one crackpot was sprinkling water over the attendees. The entire press corps (several tv and radio crews and a few print press) went hustling over to the crackpot. When I watched the event on the tv news and heard it on the radio and read it in the paper, what do you think was covered? Nothing about the previous hour and a half. No interviews with the many people there who had intelligent pro and con arguments about the purpose of the demonstrations. Only the crackpot.

    It's how the media works.

    Eve

  3. #103

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    It seems that the best way to defeat any opposition is to label the opponents as neighbourhood terrorists and then say that they are against the library. That worked for George Bush so he could push his agenda.

    Local residents are considered stakeholders especially those within 60 meters. Easiest way to contain and dismiss their 3 or 4 valid concerns is to wait until someone mentions the anything that resembles NIMBYISM and then we can poison any of their other concerns.

    That is how you contain and dismiss the residents.

    Funny that no one noticed or commented on that a COE Senior Planner was against the location and how it was moved.

    I guess he is a NIMBY and a book burning anti-development luddite too.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 26-04-2015 at 05:33 AM.
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  4. #104
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    I'm a southeast boy, but my visual recollection of that particular area is kind of blurry right now.

    GEMINI WROTE: "There's probably more wildlife seen on the David Letterman Show than wanders onto that field." END QUOTE

    Yeah, I'm wondering. The guy in the article talks about seeing deer playing from his front steps. Where exactly are these deer coming from? I don't think the ravine hooks up to the river valley, does it?

  5. #105

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    A few deer cross 101st each year.

    Let's try to focus on the core issues rather than nimbyism or rabbit trails.

    Why was the approved location changed?
    Who made the change?
    Why are they developing a greenfield site and not the adjacent brownfield site?
    Why was the community not properly informed especially those within 60 meters?
    What are the plans for the original site?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  6. #106

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    my flickr

    Lets remember what this ravine really looks like. It is not a picturesque one as shown in the artists renderings but mostly scrub trees. They are nice but the library design allows you to look at them but not go outside and enjoy them because there are no sitting areas on the natural side and you don't want everyone tramping through the brush.

    Adding to lat's suggestions Here is an alternate plan #4 with a common area outside and extended landscaping.
    Which do you prefer, 1, 2, 3 or 4?

    my flickr
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  7. #107

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    I see both sides. It does make more logistic sense to put it where the firehall was. But I see the concerns of the architect. Edmontons new Libraries are nothing short of art. I think they want to continue that legacy with Capilano. So let the Architect make his best work!! An amazing library for all Edmontonians > small greenspace for a few local residents
    FREE THE LOOPING .GIF MEMES
    youtube.com/GrimEmpire

  8. #108
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    I'm less into architectural fetish than you are, Komrade. In 20 years, this design will be considered old and passé by the next generation of architectural snobs.

    Eve

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I don't understand why this isn't the obvious choice.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  10. #110

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    I like the proposed Plan A from post #74. The other plans where the library is on 101 Ave seem crowded, stifled. To many buildings crammed at one end.
    In fact I think they should add picnic tables on that site so people can bring their kids and let them blow off steam . Make it more like a park setting. Fence part of it and make it a dog park. The whole neighborhood would benefit if that greenfield was developed.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I'm less into architectural fetish than you are, Komrade. In 20 years, this design will be considered old and passé by the next generation of architectural snobs.

    Eve
    It's that some of don't want to live in a city full of Saville Centres. And good design of any ages wears better than bad.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  12. #112

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    ^Good design, like art, is very subjective.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  13. #113

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    The reason the architect chose this location is so the windows overlook the ravine, and I think that's a nice idea.If they remediate the brownsite as they apparently had promised, they could make that a little park leading up to the library, and I agree with Gemini a couple picnic tables, even a children's playground would fit really well.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    Funny that no one noticed or commented on that a COE Senior Planner was against the location and how it was moved.

    I guess he is a NIMBY and a book burning anti-development luddite too.
    There was no quote by a senior planner in the article, only the architect.

  15. #115

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    I never said it was directly in the article.
    You did not read my post.
    Did you read the comments section like I suggested? Here is the comment reposted.

    Erik Backstrom · Senior Planner at City of Edmonton
    I love libraries but this model of building stand-alone libraries where parking considerations drive design has to stop. If public agencies don't lead by example in picking locations with great transit and mixing land uses, how can we expect anyone else to do it?
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...237/story.html
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-04-2015 at 08:02 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You did not read my post.
    Did you read the comments section?

    Erik Backstrom · Senior Planner at City of Edmonton
    I love libraries but this model of building stand-alone libraries where parking considerations drive design has to stop. If public agencies don't lead by example in picking locations with great transit and mixing land uses, how can we expect anyone else to do it?
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...237/story.html
    I love how you selectively choose to be an authority on the issue. A random commentator on a news article who calls himself a city planner -- planner of what?!

  17. #117
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    Is it only great transit if you only have to walk twenty feet or less to get to your destination? Is Library and park not mixing land uses?

  18. #118
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    He's on LinkedIn. He is a planner for the city specializing (it seems) in TOD's in addition to a previous list of experience.

    Eve

  19. #119

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    Erik Backstrom · Senior Planner at City of Edmonton
    I love libraries but this model of building stand-alone libraries where parking considerations drive design has to stop. If public agencies don't lead by example in picking locations with great transit and mixing land uses, how can we expect anyone else to do it?
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...237/story.html

    It seems the planners beef is more about people driving to the library rather than getting public transit or walk. I fail to see how he could get worked up over this particular library being moved 1 block south of were the fire hall used to be. Then he goes on to say about mixing land uses and great transit. Well, there are buses that will run within a block of the library. What does he want, a bus drive in bay. Then the city 'mixing land use'. Well, is that not what they are trying to do. Mixing small public buildings with green fields. I suggest they build the library south of the fire hall and the parking lot south of the library. The reason I say that is it will free up congestion when there is a church function. I'm sure the architect has included some greenery and flowers in the plans. Why not take full advantage of the field and make it an outdoor stopping place for all the neighborhood to enjoy. The trees can be left as I imagine that is where most of the critters live anyway. It could be an ideal place those apartment dwellers and people in the area to go for a picnic. If you look at the satellite map of the area it's not a small field.

    https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.54001.../data=!3m1!1e3
    Last edited by Gemini; 27-04-2015 at 09:11 PM.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    He's on LinkedIn. He is a planner for the city specializing (it seems) in TOD's in addition to a previous list of experience.

    Eve
    So I guess that he would know more than Snake Eyes..

    As far has his comment that I was being selective, I referenced 6 respondents including Gord Lacey.

    Funny how Snake Eyes and his ilk zeroed in on on the NIMBY comments and ignored everything else. Pot meet kettle...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  21. #121

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    ^Funny how your ilk are pre-occupied with a handful of homeowners who think that because they have had a certain view for the last 40+ years they are entitled to have it for the next 40. I could see them complaining if they were looking over the Hanging Gardens of Babylon but it's a field with trees in it. I read the Journal article and some of the homeowners comments. One particular women saying they were not opposed to it being build but to put it were they first said it would go, on the site of the old fire hall. If it is not build on the site of the old Fire Hall she does not want it build in front of her house. That's NIMBY plain and simply.
    Last edited by Gemini; 27-04-2015 at 09:38 PM.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  22. #122

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    So you want to punish her and take down all her neighbors with her because you want to prove a point?

    I noticed that you really made an effort to ignore my earlier post which asked:

    Why was the approved location changed?
    Who made the change?
    Why are they developing a greenfield site and not the adjacent brownfield site?
    Why was the community not properly informed especially those within 60 meters?
    What are the plans for the original site?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  23. #123

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    The question these people should be asking is can the library not be modified by the architect to fit on the old fire hall site or ask if the C of E has other plans for the firehall site.
    I fail to see why people think that because they have lived in one spot in a city for 40+ years they have a monopoly on how the area is developed.
    I lived on a property for 10 years that is now within spitting distance of the Henday so I do know things change.
    __________________

    ^My comments from post #63

    I also have said that the C of E should have kept the homeowners informed all the way through the process. they definitely dropped the ball.

    It is you that seems to be wanting to put a point over that the fire hall is the best place for the library. Either that or you live in the hood or know someone who does.
    I think just because there was a fire hall in a certain place on that site it does not follow that every other building built in that area has to be on the same footprint. Why can't a public building be built in an accessible place in the nicer surrounding when possible. Not that that particular field is outstanding but 101 Ave is even less of a postcard. The architects point of large windows taking advantage of the view of the trees is a sound one.
    Last edited by Gemini; 27-04-2015 at 10:30 PM.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Good design, like art, is very subjective.
    Good Enough For Edmonton™
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  25. #125

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    ^Not sure what you are getting at?.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post

    I also have said that the C of E should have kept the homeowners informed all the way through the process. they definitely dropped the ball.

    It is you that seems to be wanting to put a point over that the fire hall is the best place for the library. Either that or you live in the hood or know someone who does.
    I think just because there was a fire hall in a certain place on that site it does not follow that every other building built in that area has to be on the same footprint. Why can't a public building be built in an accessible place in the nicer surrounding when possible. Not that that particular field is outstanding but 101 Ave is even less of a postcard. The architects point of large windows taking advantage of the view of the trees is a sound one.
    I know the area well and used to go to the Church there. BUT your continued false assumptions that I live near there or know someone who does is another example of your continuous method of character assination by calling people's concerns as nimbyism and self interest.

    Who said that a paid architect gets to choose the site? City Council approved the old fire hall site not the one he picked.

    In a court of law, a case can be thrown out on the smallest technicality or a mistake in the process yet you acknowledge that the City made a significant mistake in keeping the residents informed. That alone should be reason enough go begin a serious review and readdressing of the project's location.

    Not in Gemini's view, soon as he hears a NIMBY comment, he is ready to start up the bulldozers and "put up a parking lot" just to punish residents who did nothing wrong than to ask questions and show their concerns for their community.

    Your reasoning make me wonder if you are a developer or a City planner involved with this peoject or the architect himself with your own set of self interests?

    Your contain and dismissive attitude is exactly the intransigence that Mayor Mandel talked about where the Administration comes to public meetings with a preconceived idea that they have already decided on and are only going the motions of informing the public of their plans and are totally deaf to the residents concerns (heck,many of the people in the Administration don't even live in Edmonton but rather Beaumont, St.Albert or Sherwood Park) and make false representations to City Council and after Council makes a decision,the Administration has set the bait and then switches the project's scope to their liking.

    Gemini, you should apply for a job with the City Administration as you would fit in so well with their groupthink.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 28-04-2015 at 05:01 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  27. #127

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    ^Oh get over yourself. Apart from my last post when did I say anything about you living in or near the area, please give me the post # on that. As for me being a C of E planner, well you have probably given anyone who reads this thread the biggest laugh of their day.
    Sure the C of E have been negligent in informing the homeowners of what has been going on, but I have a feeling even if they had of been informed all the way they still would not want it in front of their houses. Their obsessions for it to go on the site of the old fire hall footprint has been well heard. Their argument of it being more visible in that spot could be true but the people who visit the library would find it if it moved 1 block down. It would still be visible from 101 Ave. As for 'punishing' the homeowners. Is it punishment or a reality check that they live in a city and the view from their property and makeup of the neighborhood is not guaranteed. Oh, and again, get over yourself.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  28. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Is it only great transit if you only have to walk twenty feet or less to get to your destination? Is Library and park not mixing land uses?

    I'm sure Mr. Backstrom's employer and colleagues will love that he publicly criticized a project he's not even working on. Although to be fair to him, it was more of an offhand comment about single-use facilities and transit access, that I don't even disagree with. Just have to be realistic what the scale of that looks like when talking about a small community centre.

  29. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I know the location well and access from the east, south and southwest is terrible. Put it 100 meters north and watch the nimbyism disappear. In terms of location, location, location, it fails 3 times.
    (highlighted by me)

    Geez, that's an interesting post from you. Your calling me out for uttering the word NIMBY and yet you are doing it yourself. .............watch the nimbyism disappear. Could you explain yourself?.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  30. #130

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    How about you move the parking lot 1 block away and let the car drivers walk.

    Maybe we should just get rid of public meetings entirely since anything coming out of them is automatically going to be labelled as NIMYism if it's not 100% in favour.

  31. #131

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    I know how these things go.

    The planners and architects look at the site on maps, Google sterns view and on in documents. They visit the site and walk and talk amongst themselves for about an hour and decide that the library would look better at the other end of the field. They go back to the office and make changes to the plans. Go back a few weeks later and walk the site for 30 minutes with someone from parks & rec and someone from zoning. Make some changes back in the office and prepare another PowerPoint presentation. A couple of months later they take a short tour of the site once again but it is -20c and there is a good of snow on the ground. They barely get out of the car.

    Now they are experts because they spent nearly two hours in the neighbourhood and have decided what is best for the community.

    Let nothing get in the way of their plans. Begin the contain and dismiss protocols.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  32. #132
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    Capilano Information Session - June 1, 2015

    EPL is planning to branch out in a big way with a new library in Capilano, and we would love your input!

    The proposed new Capilano Branch would help overcome the physical challenges of the current library and strengthen its presence in the community, allowing for the full range of programming and services. The proposed new branch location is at 6225 101 Avenue NW.

    The defining feature of the new library site is a portion of the Fulton ravine, a roughly 60 meter wide forested depression that divides the property into an east side facing 67 Street and west side facing Terrace Road NW. The proposed interior of the new Capilano Branch will have a ravine zone, which will be a space for studying and seating with the ravine as a background.

    Join us for a public information session:
    Monday, June 1
    7 p.m.
    Capilano Branch, 200 Capilano Mall, 5615 101 Avenue

    If you would like to share your thoughts on the new library but can't attend the event, we invite you to give us your thoughts in this short questionnaire.
    Just got an EPL email that contained that information about the Capilano branch open house.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  33. #133
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    ^ Reminder on June 1 will be an info session.

    Below are architect's renderings of the proposed new Capilano branch.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/epldotca/16720058897/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/epldotca/16307349933/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/epldotca/16307349483/

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/epldotca/16307351603/

    (sorry, I don't know how to post flickr images here

  34. #134

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    What's the latest on this project?. Have they decided where the library is going to be built. Have the local NIMBY's self imploded or are they getting their wish of not in their backyard (so to speak).
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  35. #135

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