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Thread: A Downtown for Everyone

  1. #1
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    Default A Downtown for Everyone

    Expect some media on Downtown development, construction, disruption and excitement later this AM.


    http://www.edmonton.ca/go_downtown/d...n_rotator2.jpg


    http://www.edmonton.ca/go_downtown/d...n_rotator1.jpg


    http://www.edmonton.ca/go_downtown/d...n_rotator3.jpg

    There’s a buzz in downtown Edmonton, growing everyday. And it’s building into a roar. It’s in the shouts of construction workers high overhead, in the crowds of pedestrians jostling to make the light, the office workers spilling out of the LRT, and students rushing to class.

    Something big is happening here, and it’s like nothing that’s come before.

    A Downtown for Everyone
    Edmontonians, business groups, non-profit organizations and the City of Edmonton are building an extraordinary, reignited downtown. One that will move us into the ranks of other major global cities.

    It’s ambitious, but we are a city of courage, vision and cooperation.

    http://www.edmonton.ca/go_downtown/a...-everyone.aspx

    also

    http://www.edmonton.ca/downtown.aspx
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    I like the premise.

    The only critique...downtown is not for everyone. I would tweek the message to say Downtown WELCOMES everyone...I think that is what it is trying to say...

    Yes, too picky...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  3. #3

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    Downtown IS for everyone. Excited for the news
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

  4. #4

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    and it’s like nothing that’s come before.



    To any student of the history of a boomtown economy its phrases like this that bother me because they completely lack any understanding or acknowledgement of what has gone on before. Multiple times.

    The important thing is that we learn from past booms and get this revitalizing right. Rather than pretending its never happened before. Anybody 45 or over knows this to be a lie.

    That might seem like small quibble but its an important point. Downtown Edmonton was transformed in the 60's and 70's under the name of "progress" and cranes and wrecking balls were everywhere. When the smoke cleared we ended up with a downtown that few loved and with many of the memories torn down. Much of what was put up in that time frame has been reviled ever since.
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    I like to think we have learned since then, Replacement. We are requiring new buildings to interact with the street, offer retail, and be pedestrian friendly whereas none of this was true in the 60s and 70s (which destroyed the downtown).

    Yes, there is a long way to go, especially in regards to transitioning our downtown away from a vehicle centered commuter area to a pedestrian focused zone, but we are definitely making progress.

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    I don't even know what that means. Downtown is perfectly fine for some people but it doesn't even welcome everyone. It welcomes the young certainly. Especially on bar nights. And it hopes to attract the affluent spenders. (I'm affluent these days but not a spender).

    The cranes are not a selling point. The endless hoarding and sidewalk disruptions make pleasure walking impossible.

    Eve

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    Great stuff, love this campaign!

    ^ the cranes signal change, growth and vibrancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    I like to think we have learned since then, Replacement. We are requiring new buildings to interact with the street, offer retail, and be pedestrian friendly whereas none of this was true in the 60s and 70s (which destroyed the downtown).

    Yes, there is a long way to go, especially in regards to transitioning our downtown away from a vehicle centered commuter area to a pedestrian focused zone, but we are definitely making progress.
    Seemingly we are. But theres been lots of disappointments as well. Look at 104st for example. Todays modern urban dweller prefers the street as it is. I remember one where the Boardwalk Marketplace was wonderful and open to the public and like a downtown Edmonton version of the Forks and where Mother Tuckers, Waldens, several other great restaurants were also close at hand. It was a lively people place even back then.

    What gets lost in the shuffle of creating shiny new palaces is we're increasingly losing ones that would be more inviting and that have been. Its absolutely essential for the 104st and new Arena experience for the Boardwalk building to be returned to public use in market form. What a disaster when this concept was sold out.

    A downtown for Everyone? Boardwalk Downtown was my favorite place downtown. Redeveloped for other purposes. This is a city that allows grand and historic places to just be ripped out from our memories. This continues.

    Mercer building would be an excellent example of reversing this trend. Reconfiguring the Warehouse storage building needs to be another one.

    Right now 104st conspicuously lacks around 2 blocks of public access space. Things like that need to change and be done properly. Just one example but a primary one. With the Arena nearly here the 104st needs to one contiguous plaza of urban interest. Not a disconnected one as it is now. Right now it feels really that there is nothing between Mercer and the retail contained farther south on 104st.
    By all means walking districts are important. But they need to be more contiguous.

    RHW also feels largely like a memory now. We're building things, we've lost a lot of the best things as well.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-05-2015 at 11:25 AM.
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    Eve, I don't see the hoarding and sidewalk disruptions as important as the fact that downtown is still oriented first and foremost for cars.

    We need to ask the question: what percentage of people do we want walking or biking, and what percentage do we want driving. Then we need to look at how we allocate space. Right now, public space is overwhelmingly, massively allocated to the personal car.

    The best thing we could do for downtown is cut out lanes and replace them with sidewalks. That is how you make a downtown welcoming.

    Yeah, it would slow down traffic a lot. I think that is good. The downtown core should not be a commuter route, it should be a destination where people get out and walk. Slow traffic should be something we try to create there, not the opposite.

    ^ Replacement, I totally agree. We need to preserve and enhance the spirit of streets. I think that 104 St is a great candidate to close down to traffic completely, North of Jasper. It is a garbage route for driving as it is. Who seriously goes "they can't close down 104 to cars, it will jam everything up!". It wouldn't. It is a place people like to walk, not drive. So we should close it to cars, and let people walk there. What a way to embrace the spirit of an area.

    I think that this would integrate the whole area as a walking destination, and create a permanent public realm where markets / street life can happen. That is the best of both worlds. You preserve the public access and community spirit, and you also open it up to growth and construction.
    Last edited by Jaerdo; 07-05-2015 at 11:34 AM.

  10. #10

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    It means it's undergoing a renaissance and becoming the political, economic, and social centre of the city again.

    There's still a long way to go, of course.

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    Just back from the event, great turnout, amazing views from the 16th of Epcor (thank you Ken/Qualico).

    ----



    News Release



    May 07, 2015 City of Edmonton


    $5 billion dollars of investment transforms Downtown Edmonton


    Senior business and community leaders showcased Downtown Edmonton’s momentum from the 16th floor of EPCOR tower today. “When you see 25 cranes dominating the skyline, you know something big is happening, and we’re all proud to be part of the transformation,” says Councillor Scott McKeen.

    Representatives from more than a dozen organizations shared their excitement and plans for the many projects under construction and the benefits and impacts Edmontonians will see over the next decade.

    “The new downtown vibrancy and momentum is unmistakable.” said Jim Taylor, President of the Downtown Business Association. “There’s about $5 billion in new condos, office towers, hotels and infrastructure under construction or planned for our downtown. When you put it all together, it’s incredible.”

    The numbers show the scope of change already underway:

    In just two years, the amount of underdeveloped land decreased by 17 percent.
    Over 1,000,000 square feet of land in the core comprises active construction sites. That is about 62 NHL hockey rinks.
    There is 6.6 million square feet of floor area under construction. That’s even bigger than West Edmonton Mall.
    Over 1,100 residential units are currently under construction. Another 3,300 more have been announced by developers.
    Over the next few years, downtown builders and leaders—big and small—will be undertaking activities to celebrate downtown and make it easier for Edmontonians to share in the excitement. A celebratory visual marker, a window in the shape of an “E”, will be displayed on all of the downtown public and private projects.

    “We wanted a fun, common visual connector to raise interest and show our support for downtown,” said Councillor Scott McKeen. “There’s a real impact over the next few years to our citizens, businesses and visitors with so much development occurring. We’re asking Edmontonians to be patient, get informed and be excited, as we transform our city.”

    The community partners are working together to inform and engage Edmontonians. “This is a downtown for everyone. Workers, students, urban dwellers, music and arts lovers, hockey fans, food aficionados – Downtown Edmonton is once again becoming the booming heart of our city and a hot destination for visitors,” said Chris Buyze, President, Downtown Edmonton Community League.

    Councillor McKeen was joined by community partners, including: Downtown Business Association, Intuit, Stantec, PCL, John Day Developments, Qualico Commercial, Langham Development, Pangman Developments, MacEwan University, Downtown Edmonton Community League, Edmonton International Airport, The Katz Group, the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce and the Edmonton Public Library.

    For more information:

    Visit edmonton.ca/GoDowntown

    Media contact:

    Alice Leung
    Reputation Unit Manager
    Corporate Communications
    780-423-2471

    www.edmonton.ca
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    I still don't understand why you think that dodging cranes is such an attraction for anyone but construction nerds.

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    I like to think we have learned since then, Replacement. We are requiring new buildings to interact with the street, offer retail, and be pedestrian friendly whereas none of this was true in the 60s and 70s (which destroyed the downtown).

    Yes, there is a long way to go, especially in regards to transitioning our downtown away from a vehicle centered commuter area to a pedestrian focused zone, but we are definitely making progress.
    Seemingly we are. But theres been lots of disappointments as well. Look at 104st for example. Todays modern urban dweller prefers the street as it is. I remember one where the Boardwalk Marketplace was wonderful and open to the public and like a downtown Edmonton version of the Forks and where Mother Tuckers, Waldens, several other great restaurants were also close at hand. It was a lively people place even back then.

    What gets lost in the shuffle of creating shiny new palaces is we're increasingly losing ones that would be more inviting and that have been. Its absolutely essential for the 104st and new Arena experience for the Boardwalk building to be returned to public use in market form. What a disaster when this concept was sold out.

    A downtown for Everyone? Boardwalk Downtown was my favorite place downtown. Redeveloped for other purposes. This is a city that allows grand and historic places to just be ripped out from our memories. This continues.

    Mercer building would be an excellent example of reversing this trend. Reconfiguring the Warehouse storage building needs to be another one.

    Right now 104st conspicuously lacks around 2 blocks of public access space. Things like that need to change and be done properly. Just one example but a primary one. With the Arena nearly here the 104st needs to one contiguous plaza of urban interest. Not a disconnected one as it is now. Right now it feels really that there is nothing between Mercer and the retail contained farther south on 104st.
    By all means walking districts are important. But they need to be more contiguous.

    RHW also feels largely like a memory now. We're building things, we've lost a lot of the best things as well.
    I agree with a lot of what you're saying here but I'd say 104st and RHW are moving in the right direction. One of the dead blocks on 104th will get a nice injection of life with the Fox podiums, much like the KR replica should do with RHW. Rice Howard Way also already has a nice handful of restaurants and cafes that make effective use of less than ideal streetfront architecture, while a good block of restaurants exists very close by on 101 A Ave.

    The addition of the those new buildings might seem like a plastic way of trying correct a failed past but they were designed with sympathy to the original design and/or character of the street. Hell, even the Boardwalk building is doing alright for the time being with the 103rd street portion having a nice row of restos that are sorely needed on a much more dead street like that. I tend to think a lot of the development in our downtown right now has those past mistakes in mind and will attempt to avoid them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I still don't understand why you think that dodging cranes is such an attraction for anyone but construction nerds.

    Eve
    Inconvenience at times yes, but also a very clear sign of energy, excitement, interest and activity.

    That said, this initiative launched today will also be working on communication plans to better address road closures, sidewalk closures, temp disruptions, noise, garbage etc.

    Part of this campaign is to build excitement and energy, part of it is to educate and part of it is to inform.
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    Well, all I'm seeing right now is spin.

    Eve

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    Sure, what's wrong with some spin? Some might call this 'spin' as simply a different perspective. We complain or lament when other major cities are building amazing cores and then we when start to people complain about temporary inconveniences?
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    ^ What I see wrong with too much spin is it distracts us from the pressing issues that communities like Connect2Edmonton should be advocating on.

    #1 concern downtown: The core is still held hostage by an overpowered transportation authority that sacrifices good urban design for cars. No matter how much we build, we won't be a great downtown until we transition away from the ridiculous 6-8 lane roads that squeeze out pedestrians. We need to do it NOW, not years down the line. Say you expand a sidewalk by double - guess what happens to the value of the restaurants and shops there? They can now expand onto the street in patios and displays, and attract more people.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    ^ What I see wrong with too much spin is it distracts us from the pressing issues that communities like Connect2Edmonton should be advocating on.

    #1 concern downtown: The core is still held hostage by an overpowered transportation authority that sacrifices good urban design for cars. No matter how much we build, we won't be a great downtown until we transition away from the ridiculous 6-8 lane roads that squeeze out pedestrians. We need to do it NOW, not years down the line. Say you expand a sidewalk by double - guess what happens to the value of the restaurants and shops there? They can now expand onto the street in patios and displays, and attract more people.
    We'll be seeing some of that down the road no?
    - 102 Ave adding bike lanes and LRT.
    - 104 Ave slimming down a bit outside the Arena with widened sidewalks (I do dislike the street level renders outside the arena, too sterile).
    - EAD's outdoor plaza, with 103st becoming a pedestrian street part of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    What a joke.
    Go on.
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I still don't understand why you think that dodging cranes is such an attraction for anyone but construction nerds.

    Eve
    The cranes and hoarding is going to be replaced by places where people live, work, play, and spend money. Is it really so hard to see that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    What a joke.
    Go on.
    soon

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    Keep in mind people that this initiative is simply connecting many dots/plans/strategies/ideas/developments together so there is a clearer message and one that all groups can use/promote to educate and inform.
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    I have no problem seeing that, Snake Eyes. But the "people" will have to be young and/or spenders. I work downtown. Most of the restaurants and bars are for the upscale folks. I don't want to go back into debt so I go straight home after work.

    When I do come downtown, usually in the evening or on the weekend, the trendy coffee shops are closed. Stopping on the sidewalk for more than a couple of seconds will attract unwelcome attention and so I've learned to walk fast. Generally, I take my walks away from downtown.

    I do know what you're looking forward to. What I object to is the word "everyone" as if there is some sort of moral imperative for enjoying upscale (and wall-to-wall new places means expensive just like 104th Street) food and entertainment.

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    ^ What I see wrong with too much spin is it distracts us from the pressing issues that communities like Connect2Edmonton should be advocating on.

    #1 concern downtown: The core is still held hostage by an overpowered transportation authority that sacrifices good urban design for cars. No matter how much we build, we won't be a great downtown until we transition away from the ridiculous 6-8 lane roads that squeeze out pedestrians. We need to do it NOW, not years down the line. Say you expand a sidewalk by double - guess what happens to the value of the restaurants and shops there? They can now expand onto the street in patios and displays, and attract more people.
    We'll be seeing some of that down the road no?
    - 102 Ave adding bike lanes and LRT.
    - 104 Ave slimming down a bit outside the Arena with widened sidewalks (I do dislike the street level renders outside the arena, too sterile).
    - EAD's outdoor plaza, with 103st becoming a pedestrian street part of the time.

    I do hope so. However it is an extremely slow process, and many projects go through that completely and entirely miss the mark. Think Jasper ave makeover. How is it that Jasper ave was retained as a major traffic thoroughfare? It makes no sense. We should have cut it down to max two lanes in either direction and zero street parking. Perfectly fine for local traffic only. Use the savings in road maintenance over time to build park and rides around the city so people stop commuting.

    You can really tell that the overarching values of planning downtown are still cars first, everyone else second. No matter what they do, the first question is always "how will this affect traffic".

    We don't want cars to be the primary mode of transportation downtown, so how is it they still rule planning?

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I do know what you're looking forward to. What I object to is the word "everyone" as if there is some sort of moral imperative for enjoying upscale (and wall-to-wall new places means expensive just like 104th Street) food and entertainment.

    Eve
    You're taking it a little bit too literally, aren't you? I'm in similar situation as you.I'm tight with money, have a young family, and for other reasons can't eat out or drink very much.

    I still recognize that Edmonton is the brand of the region, and downtown is the face of that. A strong vibrant downtown is not only good for people downtown, it's good for the whole region.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    ^ What I see wrong with too much spin is it distracts us from the pressing issues that communities like Connect2Edmonton should be advocating on.

    #1 concern downtown: The core is still held hostage by an overpowered transportation authority that sacrifices good urban design for cars. No matter how much we build, we won't be a great downtown until we transition away from the ridiculous 6-8 lane roads that squeeze out pedestrians. We need to do it NOW, not years down the line. Say you expand a sidewalk by double - guess what happens to the value of the restaurants and shops there? They can now expand onto the street in patios and displays, and attract more people.
    We'll be seeing some of that down the road no?
    - 102 Ave adding bike lanes and LRT.
    - 104 Ave slimming down a bit outside the Arena with widened sidewalks (I do dislike the street level renders outside the arena, too sterile).
    - EAD's outdoor plaza, with 103st becoming a pedestrian street part of the time.

    I do hope so. However it is an extremely slow process, and many projects go through that completely and entirely miss the mark. Think Jasper ave makeover. How is it that Jasper ave was retained as a major traffic thoroughfare? It makes no sense. We should have cut it down to max two lanes in either direction and zero street parking.

    You can really tell that the overarching values of planning downtown are still cars first, everyone else second. No matter what they do, the first question is always "how will this affect traffic".

    We don't want cars to be the primary mode of transportation downtown, so how is it they still rule planning?
    Well, you still need arterial roads, and I'd assume when you project more people coming downtown, you're projecting more traffic even in the event of improved public transportation. Vancouver still has wide, 6 lane streets like Georgia and Burrard.

    Trust me, I try to rely on non-car transportation as much as I can, but unfortunately car dependency will a take generation or more to lessen to the point of justifying taking away traffic lanes without some considerable motorist backlash.

  31. #31

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    The pedestrian realm is going to improve. Streetscaping on Jasper, 102ave down to one car lane.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I still don't understand why you think that dodging cranes is such an attraction for anyone but construction nerds.

    Eve
    Inconvenience at times yes, but also a very clear sign of energy, excitement, interest and activity.

    That said, this initiative launched today will also be working on communication plans to better address road closures, sidewalk closures, temp disruptions, noise, garbage etc.

    Part of this campaign is to build excitement and energy, part of it is to educate and part of it is to inform.
    The most significant "Closure" on 104st is the Boardwalk/Revillon building which if still open to the public would be a wonderful connection uniting 104st corridor and that would help bring Jasper Ave to Arena vitality all along the street.

    We live in a city where we try to build things but allow such abomination as Revillons current non public use to occur. The most appealing historic building in downtown Edmonton basically shutoff from the public. This needs to be corrected and soon. What impetus could occur in encouraging that further to building a downtown for everybody and not the specific few?

    Could anybody even envision a Downtown Winnipeg with the Forks sold out to non public interest?

    Much of the Revillon building is just that. Sold out to private interest. Most of the building, and all of it except for 103st side being closed off to the public. An absolute nightmare of misuse in a downtown devoid of maintaining public use heritage.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-05-2015 at 12:49 PM.
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  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    ^ What I see wrong with too much spin is it distracts us from the pressing issues that communities like Connect2Edmonton should be advocating on.

    #1 concern downtown: The core is still held hostage by an overpowered transportation authority that sacrifices good urban design for cars. No matter how much we build, we won't be a great downtown until we transition away from the ridiculous 6-8 lane roads that squeeze out pedestrians. We need to do it NOW, not years down the line. Say you expand a sidewalk by double - guess what happens to the value of the restaurants and shops there? They can now expand onto the street in patios and displays, and attract more people.
    I don't disagree, and I love walking districts, but shared solution could be had in temporary and every weekend and holidays traffic closures. Granville would be an example in Vancouver. I do agree that 104st holds very limited value currently as a vehicle corridor. At best its a cut through point for vehicles and unnecessary.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  34. #34

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    Downtown is definitely getting there, regardless the self-righteous boo-birds. Lol.

    The keys will be:
    - evening crowds up to a third the volume of the daytime crowds
    - walkable design standards in retail and streetscape
    - proper mental health care

    And regardless how high one turns their nose and averts their eyes from Downtown, they're still going to benefit when companies from CoE to Stantec are able to maintain their corporate operations without overpaying for free agents and help us all pay our extremely important snow clearing, pothole filling, interchange building bills.

    We have to realise what our stigma was based on, and how it has affected us in reality.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    And that is what I'm talking about. If one doesn't get on the bandwagon one is automatically a "self-righteous boo-bird". Way to open up the dialog folks!

    Eve

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    There's a glaring omission from that series of lists - the proposed City Centre Mall makeover. Frankly, I find this pretty odd.
    Is there hope for Edmonton? Yes!!! The Oilers? Wait and see.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I have no problem seeing that, Snake Eyes. But the "people" will have to be young and/or spenders. I work downtown. Most of the restaurants and bars are for the upscale folks. I don't want to go back into debt so I go straight home after work.

    When I do come downtown, usually in the evening or on the weekend, the trendy coffee shops are closed. Stopping on the sidewalk for more than a couple of seconds will attract unwelcome attention and so I've learned to walk fast. Generally, I take my walks away from downtown.

    I do know what you're looking forward to. What I object to is the word "everyone" as if there is some sort of moral imperative for enjoying upscale (and wall-to-wall new places means expensive just like 104th Street) food and entertainment.

    Eve
    I don't know what businesses you're referring to, but there tones of places that are the same price as going to, say, Boston Pizza. And they're not hard to find.
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  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Downtown is definitely getting there, regardless the self-righteous boo-birds. Lol.

    The keys will be:
    - evening crowds up to a third the volume of the daytime crowds
    - walkable design standards in retail and streetscape
    - proper mental health care

    And regardless how high one turns their nose and averts their eyes from Downtown, they're still going to benefit when companies from CoE to Stantec are able to maintain their corporate operations without overpaying for free agents and help us all pay our extremely important snow clearing, pothole filling, interchange building bills.

    We have to realise what our stigma was based on, and how it has affected us in reality.
    poor form Jaybee. That's derisive, divisive, commentary on a thread with a focal point of being everybodies downtown.

    If that dialog can't even happen civilly in this forum how far is this really furthering inclusion and attracting more, and disparate interests to the downtown?

    That said I'm already somewhat a convert but at least denoting what is in further need.

    The "Stigma" of the past revitalization, that went completely wrong in the 60's and 70's is remodeling a downtown that in the end few people liked.

    To this end "crane counts" are rendered meaningless. Its not automatic they result in a loved downtown.

    Although we are moving in that direction it would seem.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #39
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    I'd like to see the giant E 'window' idea expanded city-wide. Marry this idea with my giant picture frames idea (http://www.makesomethingedmonton.ca/...-picture-this/) and it could really turn into something of a fun exercise in placemaking. Place the giant E windows all over town in important/scenic areas and let Edmontonians market Edmonton through pictures on social media.

  40. #40

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    Cranes are a sign of energy, a sign of movement, a sign of 5 BILLION in investment -- and that's just the construction, nevermind the revenue that is going to be generated from activity.

    But no..let's lament the loss of our favourite restaurant in 1982 and do nothing to downtown so we can preserve that moment forever.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
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    ^ What I see wrong with too much spin is it distracts us from the pressing issues that communities like Connect2Edmonton should be advocating on.

    #1 concern downtown: The core is still held hostage by an overpowered transportation authority that sacrifices good urban design for cars. No matter how much we build, we won't be a great downtown until we transition away from the ridiculous 6-8 lane roads that squeeze out pedestrians. We need to do it NOW, not years down the line. Say you expand a sidewalk by double - guess what happens to the value of the restaurants and shops there? They can now expand onto the street in patios and displays, and attract more people.
    We'll be seeing some of that down the road no?
    - 102 Ave adding bike lanes and LRT.
    - 104 Ave slimming down a bit outside the Arena with widened sidewalks (I do dislike the street level renders outside the arena, too sterile).
    - EAD's outdoor plaza, with 103st becoming a pedestrian street part of the time.

    I do hope so. However it is an extremely slow process, and many projects go through that completely and entirely miss the mark. Think Jasper ave makeover. How is it that Jasper ave was retained as a major traffic thoroughfare? It makes no sense. We should have cut it down to max two lanes in either direction and zero street parking.

    You can really tell that the overarching values of planning downtown are still cars first, everyone else second. No matter what they do, the first question is always "how will this affect traffic".

    We don't want cars to be the primary mode of transportation downtown, so how is it they still rule planning?
    Well, you still need arterial roads, and I'd assume when you project more people coming downtown, you're projecting more traffic even in the event of improved public transportation. Vancouver still has wide, 6 lane streets like Georgia and Burrard.

    Trust me, I try to rely on non-car transportation as much as I can, but unfortunately car dependency will a take generation or more to lessen to the point of justifying taking away traffic lanes without some considerable motorist backlash.
    102 ave and 103 ave, along with all the streets that don't directly connect to a significant route into downtown (ie. other than 97, 100, 101, 105, 109) are all far too wide for current traffic levels, and are all essentially local access; there's no need to maintain traffic speeds above 30km/hr, no need to enable passing. There's a lot of space there that could easily be reclaimed with minimal effect on vehicle traffic but would make downtown a much more pleasant place to be.

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    Snake Eyes, I'm from Calgary. I know about tall buildings. They are not a guarantee of vibrancy. In fact, the most vibrant parts of Calgary (and Edmonton) are the shabbier neighborhoods where lively merchants can afford to set up shop.

    In Calgary, the feeling of vibrancy lasted during the work day and ended suddenly when everyone went home. There was vibrancy on weekends and evenings. But not in the glass canyons. The people went to the river and Stephen Ave mall (mostly the part that wasn't glass canyon). After a while, they upgraded Stephen Ave mall and then only the well-heeled went there. The glass canyons were deserts.

    I'm not opposed to improving downtown. I'm opposed to improving downtown only for the affluent and that happens when everyone is so enamored of "billions of dollars" and really tall shiny towers and forget what goes on at ground level where most people are.

    Eve

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    Cranes are a sign of energy, a sign of movement, a sign of 5 BILLION in investment -- and that's just the construction, nevermind the revenue that is going to be generated from activity.

    But no..let's lament the loss of our favourite restaurant in 1982 and do nothing to downtown so we can preserve that moment forever.
    Dismissive.

    People are acknowledging a key part of getting people downtown is to have destinations for people, shoppers, residents, public, to go to. Revillon Boardwalk Market was a wondrous part of that and that people loved. Until it was shutdown and repurposed.

    I happen to love places like that. They are distinctive, reflect history, and people are comfortable going to them. Like they are going to the Forks in Winnipeg which would have to be considered the best thing and gathering place in Winnipeg. We had this possibility right in downtown Edmonton. We did away with it. That's not a minor setback its just sad. Being whats tried with 104st The Revillon needs to be again reconfigured to re-establish that connection with a very key street in Edmonton. Not a trivial thing imo. This could be a great street. But really requires that key Revillon part.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Snake Eyes, I'm from Calgary. I know about tall buildings. They are not a guarantee of vibrancy. In fact, the most vibrant parts of Calgary (and Edmonton) are the shabbier neighborhoods where lively merchants can afford to set up shop.

    In Calgary, the feeling of vibrancy lasted during the work day and ended suddenly when everyone went home. There was vibrancy on weekends and evenings. But not in the glass canyons. The people went to the river and Stephen Ave mall (mostly the part that wasn't glass canyon). After a while, they upgraded Stephen Ave mall and then only the well-heeled went there. The glass canyons were deserts.

    I'm not opposed to improving downtown. I'm opposed to improving downtown only for the affluent and that happens when everyone is so enamored of "billions of dollars" and really tall shiny towers and forget what goes on at ground level where most people are.

    Eve
    The glass palaces aren't for everybody and aren't very inviting or warm places.

    People have attractions to places like Old Strathcona in Edmonton or Kensington in Calgary because they are people gathering places on a people level. They feel warm, alive, with a sense of history maintained and which all ages are attracted to. These are inclusive neighborhoods. Not the abode of jet setters building Entertainment conglomerates in the hearts of downtown that are speciously attractive.

    What gets lost is whether it be Staples Center, Edmonton Entertainment District, whatever, these are Vegas like places people only visit, and have no connection to. They are event places and that's about it. I kind of feel sorry for the people that will decide to live there. These districts often have no discernible soul. Would be like living in Disneyland if that's ones kick. I'd rather frequent a real community.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-05-2015 at 01:34 PM.
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  45. #45
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    ^concur, but it will be another option and one that is offered in Toronto, Van, MTL etc... choice is good.
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  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    And that is what I'm talking about. If one doesn't get on the bandwagon one is automatically a "self-righteous boo-bird". Way to open up the dialog folks!

    Eve
    What am I, an official spokesperson or something?

    Your arrogance and dismissiveness of hard fought progress does what for the debate, exactly?

    We have massive mistakes to fix, massive holes to fill, and massive catch-up to play, what do you seriously expect? The cranes, the sidewalk closures, the noise and the dust are all stepping stones. These aren't going to be Calgary's daytime tall towers, they're going to be 24 hr residential towers and evening/weekend attractors.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  47. #47

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    5 BILLION in investment. Even if you never step foot into downtown, as Edmontonians, you are benefitting from this in the form of property taxes and a stronger economy.

  48. #48

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    ^^^^Replacement, that's a rather general statement of where people want to be and don't want to be. I didn't know you were an expert on that.

    To me Whyte Avenue has wonderful historical character, but much of it has been allowed to deteriorate over the years. The University nightlife is a turn off to many people over 25+. Many buildings need a lot of work. Businesses don't always thrive there because there isn't enough density in the neighbourhood to support them.

    But people still love Whyte Avenue despite this. And other people will love the new arena entertainment district. What has been lacking in Edmonton in the past was choice. Now you have choice of where you can hang out. The AED design has come a long way and I'm super excited to see how the pedestrian-oriented shops and services facing the plaza turn out. Not to mention 103 Street will be closed, and all the people coming downtown and supporting downtown. That's why a lot of people pushed for the arena district to be more pedestrian friendly - to help create that sense of place.

    No neighbourhood is picture perfect. But when there is real investment happening, especially in our core, we should be celebrating.
    Last edited by GreenSPACE; 07-05-2015 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Spelling!
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  49. #49

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    The arena is not simply a heartless palace of glass and steel.

    It is also pulses of 10-20 thousand individual opportunities for hospitalities to entice, half the nights per year.

    It is the opportunity for blocks and blocks to make a living by creating special places to eat, drink, and shop.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Well, all I'm seeing right now is spin.

    Eve
    Construction is tangible it is not spin.
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  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    ^^^^Replacement, that's a rather general statement of where people want to be and don't want to be. I didn't know you were an expert on that.

    To me Whyte Avenue has wonderful historical character, but much of it has been allowed to deteriorate over the years. The University nightlife is a turn off to many people over 25+. Many buildings need a lot of work. Businesses don't always thrive there because there isn't enough density in the neighbourhood to support them.

    But people still love Whyte Avenue despite this. And other people will love the new arena entertainment district. What has been lacking in Edmonton in the past was choice. Now you have choice of where you can hang out. The AED design has come a long way and I'm super excited to see how the pedestrian-oriented shops and services facing the plaza turn out. Not to mention 103 Street will be closed, and all the people coming downtown and supporting downtown. That's why a lot of people pushed for the arena district to be more pedestrian friendly - to help create that sense of place.

    No neighbourhood is picture perfect. But when there is real investment happening, especially in our core, we should be celebrating.
    In fairness Greenspace who is the "expert" We live in a city that has found the wrong answers multiple times while other cities get it right.

    Don't take my word for it visit Winnipeg sometime, anytime, and see if it doesn't feel like the pulsing center of activity for a city to relax and enjoy and centered right among two rivers.

    In Edmonton rather than capturing the essence and opportunity of such places its always "it costs too much" whether we be talking about Rossdale, Revillon, McDougal church etc.

    We devalue our history chronically and continue to do so. Yet most cities I go to historical districts are often popular and welcoming districts that people flock to. That we have far less of here. particularly in the downtown area.

    This being expressed on topic on a thread about furthering everybodies downtown.

    Do you discount interest in historical integrity and preservation being downtowns challenge?
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  52. #52
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    Downtown construction boom like 'Christmas Eve'


    BY GORDON KENT, EDMONTON JOURNAL MAY 7, 2015 1:45 PM


    EDMONTON - Edmonton’s downtown construction boom is like “Christmas Eve” as the city prepares to unwrap its gifts, Downtown Business Association executive director Jim Taylor says.

    With $5-billion worth of office towers, condos, the arena and other projects planned or being built, the recent growth is “incredible,” Taylor said Thursday.

    “It’s like Christmas Eve,” he said at a news conference touting downtown growth on the 16th floor of the Epcor Tower.

    “We have waited 20 years. The presents are all here. Now, we have to take off the wrapping.”

    There are 21 active building sites between about 97th Street and 107th Street from 100th Avenue to 104th Avenue, Taylor said.

    One year ago, 17 of those locations were surface parking lots, he said.


    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...698/story.html
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  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    The arena is not simply a heartless palace of glass and steel.

    It is also pulses of 10-20 thousand individual opportunities for hospitalities to entice, half the nights per year.

    It is the opportunity for blocks and blocks to make a living by creating special places to eat, drink, and shop.
    Go to Vegas, Staples Center and see if heart and soul comes to mind. What comes to mind to me is can't get out of here fast enough and how on Earth did I get sucked into going there.

    Everybody different in this regard but again Disney like places are abstractions, pretend environments, and often times quite horribly juxtaposed places that don't fit in anywhere, and that could be in a desert anywhere.

    I would no more live in a place like that than I would a glass bubble in death valley.

    Myself I still think the Arena is a very cold and stark design for a winter city and the whole district reflects that. You know my opinion on such architecture and that I favor earthier designs for a winter city that at least add color, warmth, comfort level.

    Its glass and steel. A lot of it. That's what the Arena district is. Not too inviting imo.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  54. #54

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    So If the city is building a downtown for everyone, but you feel excluded, what does the city need to do to attract you? What's missing?

    I'll go first. I'd like it to be more family-friendly. I'm not sure any North American city has cracked a family-friendly dowtown yet.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 07-05-2015 at 02:53 PM.

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    So If the city is building a downtown for everyone, but you feel excluded, what does the city need to do to attract you? What's missing?

    I'll go first. I'd like it to be more family-friendly. I'm not sure any North American city has cracked a family-friendly dowtown yet.
    Not just my interests as I tried to demonstrate.

    Most people any city I go to are very attracted to historic districts, support historic preservation, and talk about those things maintaining interest, and building connection with for everybody downtowns.

    This downtown has a particular other slant. In fact in some of the Arena threads one of the foremost comments is how the Warehouses are now juxtaposition that needs to go. In my view the Arena, which could be located anywhere, is. Its a design that doesn't fit anything. The problem to me isn't that beautiful brick warehouses are beautiful. Its that they're not being used to best appeal.

    ps I already stated I'm already somewhat a downtown convert. But what includes and involves me is Theater, Arts, Museum, History. I do find it unfortunate though as stated that RHW burned down and I don't share the vision of what will be in its place. I've mentioned the absolute crucial need for this city to maintain properly, and use properly the precious little historical artifice it has left.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-05-2015 at 03:03 PM.
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  56. #56

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    ^^^ Replacement: perhaps you can say that about Rogers Place and EAD, but you're not seeing what I'm saying. This is the effect of 10-20 thousand people in brownian motion loosely between the parkades, residences and LRT stations all around downtown and the campus you're describing at the centre, somewhere around half the nights of the year.

    To see what I'm saying, focus on those people, not on the building materials. A well run restaurant including an excellent chef will have the chance to pull 20 suppers each event night up to 107 Avenue, or over to 97 Street.

    Now if none of the restaurants take advantage of the opportunity, you can call me on it, but basically Rostizado, Denizen Hall, and Joey Bell Tower are already jousting for favour. It will spread way beyond the land of the official district, and many of these places will actively try to entice us non-event-goers during the event times with whatever they can as well.

    Furthermore, office workers suddenly have more than food courts for lunch as well.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  57. #57

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    Replacement, I think you've made your point. I'm not sure where the Arena District come in regards to your concerns about history. I think you need to flesh out your argument. Nothing wrong with discussing, but I'm not sure why we can't celebrate what's happening now in terms of investment and city building downtown. It's being built on a parking lot. Nothing historical is being displaced. I'm not quite getting the connection to this thread.

    I do believe there is significant place-making happening in the arena district, contrary to what you are saying. It's of it's place and time. Just because its new doesn't mean you can't place-make.

    Is it to ever person's taste and priority? Probably not. But it's huge for our downtown (literally and figuratively). I guarantee you most people aren't having the concerns you're having.
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  58. #58

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    We can't magically make those 17 surface parking lots historical buildings. The EAD will be of a time and place of it's own. Maybe not to your taste, but if you support the arts downtown, clearly more visitors and people living downtown will be positive for the arts.

  59. #59

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    Downtown for everyone? Will the campaign include pictures of homeless? Downtown belongs to them more than anyone else I guess. "A downtown for everyone, ignore someone asking you for a loonie" Actually, I like that downtown is being promoted more, just being silly. Arena district will be big help.
    Last edited by moahunter; 07-05-2015 at 03:22 PM.

  60. #60
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    Exsqueese me come again?

    Downtown should be inclusive yes, but come on now.
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  61. #61

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    Welcome to 2008, the last year moahunter even visited Edmonton.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Replacement, I think you've made your point. I'm not sure where the Arena District come in regards to your concerns about history. I think you need to flesh out your argument. Nothing wrong with discussing, but I'm not sure why we can't celebrate what's happening now in terms of investment and city building downtown. It's being built on a parking lot. Nothing historical is being displaced. I'm not quite getting the connection to this thread.

    I do believe there is significant place-making happening in the arena district, contrary to what you are saying. It's of it's place and time. Just because its new doesn't mean you can't place-make.

    Is it to ever person's taste and priority? Probably not. But it's huge for our downtown (literally and figuratively). I guarantee you most people aren't having the concerns you're having.
    Fair enough. Thanks for reading as I have other arguments. Celebration is fine. Lots going on.

    The reflection on Historical buildings being displaced was more commentary on how many times I see comments like this or that Brick warehouse doesn't fit this picture of the Arena and needs to go. I'm glad as much of the Warehouses have been reclaimed and repurposed as they have. But the Revillon is key to the heart of 104st. Always been my opinion. Hopefully it will be again. The 104th street initiative (and a main initiative it is in downtown rebuild) requires that something better be done with the cornerstone Revillon building. I'm surprised actually that not more people hold that view.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-05-2015 at 03:36 PM.
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  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^^^ Replacement: perhaps you can say that about Rogers Place and EAD, but you're not seeing what I'm saying. This is the effect of 10-20 thousand people in brownian motion loosely between the parkades, residences and LRT stations all around downtown and the campus you're describing at the centre, somewhere around half the nights of the year.

    To see what I'm saying, focus on those people, not on the building materials. A well run restaurant including an excellent chef will have the chance to pull 20 suppers each event night up to 107 Avenue, or over to 97 Street.

    Now if none of the restaurants take advantage of the opportunity, you can call me on it, but basically Rostizado, Denizen Hall, and Joey Bell Tower are already jousting for favour. It will spread way beyond the land of the official district, and many of these places will actively try to entice us non-event-goers during the event times with whatever they can as well.

    Furthermore, office workers suddenly have more than food courts for lunch as well.
    We'll see. To me most of these have as much draw as the places across the street from General Hospital. For sure I'm not a fan of any nature of Joeys type incarnation. Just abhor this cookie cutter nature of restaurant. Denizen Hall I'm unfamiliar with. Rostizado, pass, love the location, dislike their menu.

    My take is a lot of generic restaurants will flourish in Entertainment district. We'll see if interesting and unique establishments spring up.

    I'm a No Logo kind of guy if you haven't guessed.
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  64. #64

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    ^ well aware, actually, and we have more in common than some might suspect.

    But mark my words, if the Province does what we expect it will with homelessness and mental health, 107 Avenue is very on the brink of a folksy, funky renaissance.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    My take is a lot of generic restaurants will flourish in Entertainment district. We'll see if interesting and unique establishments spring up.
    They'll certainly be the only ones to afford the leases. We may see some new to Edmonton however. I imagine a similar selection to bourban street in WEM. An injection like that to downtown would be good - as generic as it may be.

  66. #66
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    ^exactly. Expect the district to be brands and more unique to be in and around the core/area as people respond to the 2million people coming downtown a year that are not now.
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  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Replacement, I think you've made your point. I'm not sure where the Arena District come in regards to your concerns about history. I think you need to flesh out your argument. Nothing wrong with discussing, but I'm not sure why we can't celebrate what's happening now in terms of investment and city building downtown. It's being built on a parking lot. Nothing historical is being displaced. I'm not quite getting the connection to this thread.

    I do believe there is significant place-making happening in the arena district, contrary to what you are saying. It's of it's place and time. Just because its new doesn't mean you can't place-make.

    Is it to ever person's taste and priority? Probably not. But it's huge for our downtown (literally and figuratively). I guarantee you most people aren't having the concerns you're having.
    Fair enough. Thanks for reading as I have other arguments. Celebration is fine. Lots going on.

    The reflection on Historical buildings being displaced was more commentary on how many times I see comments like this or that Brick warehouse doesn't fit this picture of the Arena and needs to go. I'm glad as much of the Warehouses have been reclaimed and repurposed as they have. But the Revillon is key to the heart of 104st. Always been my opinion. Hopefully it will be again. The 104th street initiative (and a main initiative it is in downtown rebuild) requires that something better be done with the cornerstone Revillon building. I'm surprised actually that not more people hold that view.
    I agree about historical buildings. We can't afford to loose anymore. But sometimes it's a negotiation between the property owner (who has certain rights), City, community, and concerned citizens. Really the end use and why it's being repurposed is most important, not just the history itself. Why 104 Street is so special is not just the historical building, but how they have been repurposed and the new buildings that have helped to activate what was a very underutilized street 15 years ago.
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  68. #68

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    The Downtown Public library is an extremely embarrassing aspect of Edmonton. It is definitely not for everyone. Time for someone to make some real changes to this overused day shelter for the homeless and not just ban sleeping as so much more is needed. Why is the Vancouver library so much better place to be when they have considerable more homeless people in the vicinity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ well aware, actually, and we have more in common than some might suspect.

    But mark my words, if the Province does what we expect it will with homelessness and mental health, 107 Avenue is very on the brink of a folksy, funky renaissance.
    Oh man. If we could deal with the issues in that neighborhood, that area could take off: close to LRT, MacEwan, Arena. The people who actually live in that area are generally good people who are reluctant to leave home but if they could be coaxed out that would be terrific. Lots of entrepreneurial types and places to lease -- I'm giving special honours in this respect to the Muslim and Somali folks in the area. And a real cross-section of working residents (from cleaners and retail to business analysts).

    Here's hoping.

    Eve

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jona G View Post
    The Downtown Public library is an extremely embarrassing aspect of Edmonton. It is definitely not for everyone. Time for someone to make some real changes to this overused day shelter for the homeless and not just ban sleeping as so much more is needed. Why is the Vancouver library so much better place to be when they have considerable more homeless people in the vicinity?
    for a supposedly liberal city, Vancouver is actually quite tough on homeless people. They move them out of areas they don't want them to be in / try to keep them in East Hastings.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jona G View Post
    The Downtown Public library is an extremely embarrassing aspect of Edmonton. It is definitely not for everyone. Time for someone to make some real changes to this overused day shelter for the homeless and not just ban sleeping as so much more is needed. Why is the Vancouver library so much better place to be when they have considerable more homeless people in the vicinity?
    During my last few visits (in the last month), I've been considering the day shelter aspect the least of the problems. If you go to the second floor you will see acres of tables but very few chairs. You'll see four or five large tables and not a single chair between them.

    I've gone in a few times to pick up holds and potentially do a bit of reading but I need a desk and chair. I don't want to cut out someone else who needs a desk and chair way more than I do.

    Eve

  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ well aware, actually, and we have more in common than some might suspect.

    But mark my words, if the Province does what we expect it will with homelessness and mental health, 107 Avenue is very on the brink of a folksy, funky renaissance.
    Oh man. If we could deal with the issues in that neighborhood, that area could take off: close to LRT, MacEwan, Arena. The people who actually live in that area are generally good people who are reluctant to leave home but if they could be coaxed out that would be terrific. Lots of entrepreneurial types and places to lease -- I'm giving special honours in this respect to the Muslim and Somali folks in the area. And a real cross-section of working residents (from cleaners and retail to business analysts).

    Here's hoping.

    Eve
    The area already has the density, the built shop spaces, Victoria School for Art, and the museums in the Prince of Wales Armoury. Then the MacEwan CFAC, arena and district developments, EPCOR Tower, new RAM and hopefully EDACC will all contribute, but the remaining balls are all in the newly elected provincial government's court.

    Iff homelessness, addictions, and mental health are dealt with the way one expects of an NDP government, all of the ingredients for a 107 Ave renaissance will just be waiting for small capitalists to, er, capitalise.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  73. #73

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    Jaybee/EveB, I like your optimism about 107ave, and I hope you're right.

    The flipside though, is maybe gentrification downtown creates a problem for the new outer-edge of downtown because instead of walk-up rentals around 107ave, property owners start to realize they can get more value for surface parking. And then the domino effect leading to the problems that have impacted downtown and the Quarters over the last couple decades.

    I hope that's not the case, but I hope preparing for these possibilities is on the city's radar, and they take steps to make sure it doesn't happen.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 07-05-2015 at 06:21 PM.

  74. #74
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    I can't see it. You'd have to get over $300 a month per spot to be worth ripping down just a crappy 2 story walk-up with 50% site coverage...and that's assuming that the existing parking is cheap with rent, and couldn't just be rented out separately. For a fully occupied 4 story you would need to get as much for a parking spot as you get for a 2 bedroom apartment.

  75. #75
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    Those aren't premium lots either. It's a bit of a hike from those lots to your downtown office. I know. I used to work in Manulife (which is closer than my current workplace from where I used to live). It's fine if the parking is free but not the kind of charge you need.

    Those crappy 2 story walkups no longer rent for $500 per unit. It's closer to $1000.

    Eve

  76. #76

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    I hope you're right, and you probably are.

    I don't know enough about the economics or politics of it to discuss numbers, but would be interested if anyone knew more. And I wonder how Chinatown and The Quarters got to the point where they are now.

    My feeling it's speculation that is harmful to neighborhoods, especially ones with high numbers of renters and a transient population. Landlords start neglecting their properties because they expect they'll be bought out, or a bad financial run comes, and walk-ups become tear-downs, and tear-downs become parking lots. With parking lots, very little maintenance involved, no tenant issues, low property taxes, and they can throw those big ad boards up. But again. I would like to know more about it.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 07-05-2015 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Revised last paragraph a little bit

  77. #77
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    Noticed the proposed Cineplex is absent from this package.

  78. #78
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    Ha

    'Downtown to be a better place'

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/videos/4224069443001
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  79. #79

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    ^its not disturbing how empty that 16th floor on EPCOR is?

  80. #80
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    I know right! An unoccupied floor is pretty empty.

    Shakes head
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    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    I had to stop the video at 5 seconds I was so disturbed.
    They should have a warning at the beginning.

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    I think what is going on downtown is great and for the next decade it will continue to gain momentum . Curmudgeons gonna curmudgeon.
    live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum

  83. #83

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    ^lol, I'm a bit tounge in check, its just, if I was organizing an event to highlight all the new office towers / space being built, I probably wouldn't choose a recently built location that can't be tenanted out to do it from Regardless, it is exciting what is happening.

  84. #84

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    :facepalmsmiley:
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  85. #85
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    Don't know if this was posted yet - or if this should be in the Jasper House thread - but Avenue has a write-up on the evolution of the downtown development market and why Condo God Brad Lamb is partaking in it

    It's On Like Donkey Kong

    Even though the price of oil is crashing and the provincial government is raising taxes and introducing user fees, developers like condo king Brad Lamb are still pouring money into new high-rise projects in Edmonton. For them, the party’s not over yet.

    http://www.avenueedmonton.com/May-20...e-Donkey-Kong/
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 09-05-2015 at 08:10 PM.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  86. #86
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    And this
    The City According to Carol

    Edmonton’s head architect wants citizens to believe in the power of great design

    http://www.avenueedmonton.com/May-20...ding-to-Carol/
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  87. #87

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    Will somebody please think of the children?!?!

    Where are the children in all of this?

    If downtown is for everyone, where is the elementary and junior high school?

    If downtown is for everyone, where are the affordable 3 and 4 bedroom condos to buy for those of us with children?
    $300,000 for a 1 bedrooms shoe box is not affordable

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Will somebody please think of the children?!?!

    Where are the children in all of this?

    If downtown is for everyone, where is the elementary and junior high school?

    If downtown is for everyone, where are the affordable 3 and 4 bedroom condos to buy for those of us with children?
    $300,000 for a 1 bedrooms shoe box is not affordable
    I would pray this is what the future if Blatchford will be.
    be offended! figure out why later...

  89. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    What a joke.
    Go on.
    soon
    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Will somebody please think of the children?!?!

    Where are the children in all of this?

    If downtown is for everyone, where is the elementary and junior high school?

    If downtown is for everyone, where are the affordable 3 and 4 bedroom condos to buy for those of us with children?
    $300,000 for a 1 bedrooms shoe box is not affordable
    Thanks codfather.

  90. #90

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    Downtown for Everyone*

    *Everyone being those 35 and under with no kids, or over the age of 65 with an empty nest.

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Will somebody please think of the children?!?!

    Where are the children in all of this?

    If downtown is for everyone, where is the elementary and junior high school?

    If downtown is for everyone, where are the affordable 3 and 4 bedroom condos to buy for those of us with children?
    $300,000 for a 1 bedrooms shoe box is not affordable
    I would pray this is what the future if Blatchford will be.
    Last time I checked, the downtown apologists got realllll mad reallll quick if you even thought of including anything outside of the actual neighbourhood downtown as downtown. You best be on your toes kid. Blatchford is mighty far from 'downtown for everyone.'

  92. #92

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    People over 35 with kids don't ever go out to dinner? To the AGA? library? Churchill Square? Concerts? Hockey games? They Don't work downtown? THey don't benefit when tourists and business people come and stay at hotels and do all the aforementioned?

    "Dowtown apologists" -- apologizing for the surface parking genocide.

  93. #93
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    not sure i interpreted "downtown for everyone" to mean only those who live downtown. part of the flywheel on this is that as more people begin to live downtown, vibrancy increases - particularly on evenings and weekends - and downtown becomes a destination for all - including young families more than it has been as they access some of the things Snake Eyes listed. the key then becomes not so much who lives downtown - the market will sort that out to a large degree - but rather how easy is it to get downtown and return home. I live south central but still feel there is benefit in a "downtown for everyone".

  94. #94
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    That said - it would be awesome for there to be more availability for young families with children both in terms of cost and access to schools.

  95. #95

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    Also some of the most affordable family-friendly housing in the city is not far from downtown at all and very accessible to it -- in MacCauley, Alberta Avenue, Parkdale, etc. Hopefully Blatchford will provide more options as well.

    But I digress, I've already stated I would like to see a more family friendly downtown.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 10-05-2015 at 10:47 AM.

  96. #96
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    I'll let IanO chime in, but if I recall correctly, any downtown family-friendly initiatives by DECL were derided by the suburbia champions here.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  97. #97
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    But yeah - more parks, playgrounds, schools, family activities and multi-bedroom residences are needed downtown.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Will somebody please think of the children?!?!

    Where are the children in all of this?

    If downtown is for everyone, where is the elementary and junior high school?

    If downtown is for everyone, where are the affordable 3 and 4 bedroom condos to buy for those of us with children?
    $300,000 for a 1 bedrooms shoe box is not affordable
    How about one of the most affordable inner city areas of the major cities in Canada? But who knows for how much longer?

    Alberta Avenue you can still get a 4 bedroom + 2 bathroom 1.5 storey home with a fully developed basement on your own lot for ~$275K. If that's not affordable, I don't know what is.

    I know what you're saying about Downtown proper for all - but you can get many of the Downtown benefits in it's surrounding areas.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Will somebody please think of the children?!?!

    Where are the children in all of this?

    If downtown is for everyone, where is the elementary and junior high school?

    If downtown is for everyone, where are the affordable 3 and 4 bedroom condos to buy for those of us with children?
    $300,000 for a 1 bedrooms shoe box is not affordable
    Last time I checked, many/most kids are 5-10mins from school, Grandin, Oliver, 109st 3 schools... Feel free to choose. Jr highs, high schools, all within 10mins. I took a bus to elementary, 25mins, took a bus to jr high, 15mins, bus to HS 25mins.

    There are many options centrally, but yes downtown proper is expensive, just like most cities. Choose less space and drop a car, walk, place value public spaces like ^in other major cities.

    Downtown will never be for 'everyone' to live , but that is not the point of this.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  100. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    People over 35 with kids don't ever go out to dinner? To the AGA? library? Churchill Square? Concerts? Hockey games? They Don't work downtown? THey don't benefit when tourists and business people come and stay at hotels and do all the aforementioned?

    "Dowtown apologists" -- apologizing for the surface parking genocide.
    They don't benefit when companies like Stantec and ATB stop leaving the City every time they outgrow their old premises? They don't benefit when local companies no longer have to overpay for their free agents? They don't benefit when downtown taxes pay for more of their snowclearing?

    Frankly, head in the sand and plain wrong (as in matter of fact, not opinion) if anyone thinks downtown's resurgence doesn't benefit the entire region.

    More needed.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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