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Thread: Jasper National Park getting $210M fix

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    Default Jasper National Park getting $210M fix

    Jasper National Park getting $210M fix
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...411/story.html

    Roads, campgrounds and heritage buildings in Jasper National Park will be spruced up in a $210-million investment, the federal government said Thursday.

    The infrastructure and conservation improvements include extensive work on Highway 16 and the Icefields Parkway.

    Campgrounds will be revitalized and heritage buildings such as the Jasper Fire Hall, an interpretive centre in the town, will be renovated.

    The Valley of Five Lakes trail and parking lot will be upgraded. Work is planned for nine bridges on Highway 16 to ensure their long-term integrity and safety.

    Parks Canada said money will also aid species at risk recovery through southern mountain caribou and whitebark pine conservation.
    Some of the work is already underway and will continue over the next five years.

    In a written statement, Yellowhead MP Jim Eglinski, said the money “will create and protect jobs and opportunities in the area while also offering excellent opportunities for Canadians to be able to connect with nature, learn and to be inspired.”

    The government says it is spending more than $500 million in highway infrastructure on regional national parks, including Banff, Glacier, Jasper, Kootenay, Mount Revelstoke and Yoho.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I wish they would twin the Yellowhead through Jasper park. Coming through last night from Van I was stuck behind a long line of trucks for 30 or 40 kilometers.

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    That would be nice, but I fear twinning the Yellowhead through Jasper National Park would cost more than $210M. I'm guessing more passing lanes.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I wish they would twin the Yellowhead through Jasper park. Coming through last night from Van I was stuck behind a long line of trucks for 30 or 40 kilometers.
    huh? If driving that stretch at night the only place I want to be is behind semi trucks who take out any stray caribou, deer, Moose before they annihilate my vehicle. Not to mention benefit of you'll never get hit by a passing vehicle headed your way. That stretch of road from BC border to the Park highway is to be taken carefully. Normally Semi's do reasonable time through there and you shouldn't be going faster than them anyway at dark. The whole region is a major animal corridor.

    Anyway small world problem and the fix would be prohibitively expensive. The Yellowhead at that point doesn't have a lot of room to grow out anywhere. As mentioned maybe a passing lane somewhere.

    Really from the BC border all the way to JNP east gates speed shouldn't be what people are thinking about. Safety and coexistence for people and animals should be. This is a World famous Parks and wildlife preserve. Which the highway happens to go through. But the priority is the Park, not 15mins travel time here or there.

    Seemingly all that twinning would do is make people drive through JNP faster. Which is not actually a positive.

    lol anyway at the overall concept of "I'm taking too long to drive through one of the most beautiful places on Earth"
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-07-2015 at 12:15 PM.
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    As someone who travels regularly to the Cariboo region I'd love to see it twinned. Or at least the wildlife colision mitigation improved drastically to allow 90kph all the way through. Getting though the park curently is a major PITA if you do it at the wrong time
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    Been there done that so many times. lol. I did feel secure following the trucks though. Banff park is nice with the twinning, fencing and wildlife overpasses completed through to the border now. There is a bit of work happening here and there. Chase to Kamloops seems like the priority twinning at this time on 1. I have heard that Sicamous to Salmon Arm is the next major project. Nice to have the tolls gone on the Coquahalla, been 7 yrs now already, but I did use the Port Mann. I guess I will get a toll bill for that. $3 plus $2.50 plus pst , gst , etc ? I noticed most of the traffic swings off before the bridge.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 03-07-2015 at 12:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    As someone who travels regularly to the Cariboo region I'd love to see it twinned. Or at least the wildlife colision mitigation improved drastically to allow 90kph all the way through. Getting though the park curently is a major PITA if you do it at the wrong time
    So people can adjust their time. Why plan on going through it at the worst times?

    Theres no way the highway should be twinned through JNP. I think most people that love that park love it for the many reasons that it is not Banff, and that it doesn't prioritize every whim.

    Its Divided highway past Hinton. Really not a long stretch that isn't to Jasper Townsite or major campgrounds. jmo that more people could enjoy the scenery rather than cursing any minor time delay.

    As for major PITA I don't know that I've delayed more than 15mins from what I expected going through. Probably because I don't expect to rocketing through a pristine National Park. I'm happy just to be there and have the sanctum, for instance over such things as rushing, being harried, and on the clock...

    That ride only starts to be really tiresome past Hinton. Really that part seems to take longer than all the way from Vancouver to Hinton which is beautiful. I usually do it all at once but by Edson to Edmonton time starts to stop. The zone where km tick off infernally slow if not backwards... "Edmonton how many km's WTF?" How could it be more? Who hasn't thought that, haha
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-07-2015 at 12:36 PM.
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    As someone who drives through there regularly, I'm fine with number of lanes as is. I definitely don't want to see them blasting away more of the park. If you think it's too slow through there, take another route. If all the other routes are slower then I'm not sure what you're complaining about. Schedule the correct amount time for your trip.

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    I'm happy just to be there and have the sanctum, for instance over such things as rushing, being harried, and on the clock...
    For me, that place is four hours west of there, on top of a mountain

    I drive the route a lot.. 90% of the time it is fine, but those times when I have had to travel it in busy conditions have been brutal. IMO it should be illegal to stop on the side of the highway through there... I've seen so much stupidity I can't believe someone hasn't been killed.

    They won't 4 lane it, I'd rather they did, It'd be a much better investment than twinning highway 5. But at least they could mitigate the wildlife concerns, and above all put a through lane at the gates so those of us blasting straight through aren't caught in line-up of tourists asking the gatekeeper "what time they let the mountain goats out ?" LOL
    Last edited by 240GLT; 03-07-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    I'm happy just to be there and have the sanctum, for instance over such things as rushing, being harried, and on the clock...
    For me, that place is four hours west of there, on top of a mountain

    I drive the route a lot.. 90% of the time it is fine, but those times when I have had to travel it in busy conditions have been brutal. IMO it should be illegal to stop on the side of the highway through there... I've seen so much stupidity I can't believe someone hasn't been killed.
    People definitely have been killed on that highway. The worst area is west of town towards the BC border. For some reason people like to make stupid passing decisions there.

    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    They won't 4 lane it, I'd rather they did, It'd be a much better investment than twinning highway 5. But at least they could mitigate the wildlife concerns, and above all put a through lane at the gates so those of us blasting straight through aren't caught in line-up of tourists asking the gatekeeper "what time they let the mountain goats out ?" LOL
    A through lane at the gate would be nice but I don't see the value in spending hundreds of millions of dollars to save you a little time on 10 per cent of your trips. Unless you're paying of course.

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    ^ I was referring to the folks that stop, get out, wander into traffic, that kind of thing.

    I've seen stupid passing manoevers, but I've seen more idiots letting their kids run out into traffic to go see the sheeps.

    Considering it's a part of the Trans Canada I think that at the very least they should put in the through lanes, like they have at Banff.

    And it's not just saving me time Paul.. it's saving everyone time
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    They should examine the feasibility of building a new 4-lane thoroughfare through Jasper National Park, then turn the current Hwy 16 into a tourist route that's similar to the Bow Valley Parkway.

    Another improvement spot would be Miette Hot Springs, especially the road. This should be on par with the hot springs in Banff and Radium, but it's isolated and closed for half the year.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    They should examine the feasibility of building a new 4-lane thoroughfare through Jasper National Park, then turn the current Hwy 16 into a tourist route that's similar to the Bow Valley Parkway.

    Another improvement spot would be Miette Hot Springs, especially the road. This should be on par with the hot springs in Banff and Radium, but it's isolated and closed for half the year.
    A complete other highway through JNP? lol, no, hopefully not in anybodies lifetime.

    lol that the same people that would be in favor of something like a new route divided highway right through JNP would also be in favor of putting hotels at pristine JNP lakes.

    Some people just don't get JNP. That's fine, but then don't go there and don't advocate spoiling it for the rest of the world that love it the perfect way it is.

    As whenever JNP topic comes up here it seems as if some posters would be much better suited by the Banff townsight Canmore Calgary corridor blight and mega highway and towns and urban sprawl dotted along the way. That's probably your park. Leave JNP the way it is, please.
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    Commercial traffic and goods, not to mention many travelers, need to pass through Jasper National Park to get between Edmonton and Prince Rupert or Vancouver. And the best route is through the Yellowhead Pass. So yes, a better Hwy 16 is an absolute requirement.

    Oh and without further improvements, more tourists will continue to just pass through Jasper.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    As for major PITA I don't know that I've delayed more than 15mins from what I expected going through. Probably because I don't expect to rocketing through a pristine National Park. I'm happy just to be there and have the sanctum, for instance over such things as rushing, being harried, and on the clock...
    Actually the traffic woes from Canada Day even made CBC Edmonton... it was backed up from about 30 km west of Jasper townsite all the way to the eastern border because of bridge repair. Apparently hours upon hours of gridlock.

    Personally, I like Jasper the way it is too but am a little undecided in my opinion whether a 4 lane highway is needed.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...sper-1.3135743

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    Sweet. Shiny new roads to the worst hotels in the province.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Commercial traffic and goods, not to mention many travelers, need to pass through Jasper National Park to get between Edmonton and Prince Rupert or Vancouver. And the best route is through the Yellowhead Pass. So yes, a better Hwy 16 is an absolute requirement.

    Oh and without further improvements, more tourists will continue to just pass through Jasper.
    In what way is it an "absolute requirement" when it hasn't been at any point and even during the biggest Alberta booms. You are aware rail services the same terminus?

    "More tourists Continue to pass through Jasper". Oh my. No tears.

    JNP is the 2nd most used National Park in Canada with Banff being #1. I'm fine btw with Banff having that designation. They can have the brunt of the tourist traffic. if anything this saves JNP from some of the hordes.
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-07-2015 at 03:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    As for major PITA I don't know that I've delayed more than 15mins from what I expected going through. Probably because I don't expect to rocketing through a pristine National Park. I'm happy just to be there and have the sanctum, for instance over such things as rushing, being harried, and on the clock...
    Actually the traffic woes from Canada Day even made CBC Edmonton... it was backed up from about 30 km west of Jasper townsite all the way to the eastern border because of bridge repair. Apparently hours upon hours of gridlock.

    Personally, I like Jasper the way it is too but am a little undecided in my opinion whether a 4 lane highway is needed.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...sper-1.3135743
    In this day and age of connected information anybody stuck in 3hrs of traffic has only themselves to blame for not checking in advance. Why even do that? Head out later. Have the kids sleep in vehicle on way home taking off at say 9-10pm instead of when every other lemming does. Or while everybody else is stuck in traffic enjoy another day in Jasper while others are on asphalt stuck in cars going nowhere. Never seen this happen btw and obviously its a not ordinary event. But I also never plan on leaving the park when everybody else does.

    As mentioned the biggest delays are at the gate and then at the Campgrounds for anybody inclined..They could do more to solve those problems.

    With the latter I always get a laugh how Calgary gets expedited gates into Banff Park and into campgrounds while Jasper affords no such right of way for annual pass holders or at campgrounds even if you have a reservation, for a specific spot, your'e still waiting in line for some reason.. Another odd difference is JNP checks for park passes all the time and even has a check stop on highway 93 inside the park. Banff does none of this. Effectively this results in Calgarians figuring out they don't need a park pass ever and Edmontonians knowing they do. Kind of odd, always wondered about that. I know Calgarians that go to Banff all the time and have never purchased a park pass in their life. Now that's something that should be changed..
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-07-2015 at 03:41 PM.
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    Regardless of twinning through the park, the federal government since Chretien (perhaps earlier) have been guilty of barely maintaining roads through national parks, sure they've done some work on Trans-Canada between Banff and Kickinghorse Pass but little else. A lot of the bridges were poorly maintained on both Trans-Canada and Yellowhead and couldn't have gone too much longer without safety being impacted (rusted guardrails, rusted rebar, cracked concrete). Mount Edith Cavell road was an embarrassment before the flash flood happened.

    And as Replacement states Jasper east gates needs a bypass lane, as people going to Banff without ever buying a park pass... they do check in Banff and they are just lucky.

    I'm not going to praise the government but rather say, it's about time.

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    For the gates they should consider either RFID the annual passes so they fine people who use a pass through lane without a pass or tie the passes to license plates and scan them at the gate. The latter could also facilitate purchasing passes online. I'm the increase in revenue from the Banff gate would cover a lot of the initial costs.

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    You don't need a pass to take the through lane, if you are driving straight through the park to points beyond you do not require a park pass, ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    You don't need a pass to take the through lane, if you are driving straight through the park to points beyond you do not require a park pass, ever.
    In that case if you want use the pass through lane register your plate online.
    Last edited by Paul Turnbull; 03-07-2015 at 04:25 PM.

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    I would love to see "noise traps" at the park gates to turn away loud motorcycles.

    I can be 10km into the backcountry and all I hear is those crap heaps on the highway. They are louder than the train.

    I have been through the national park bylaws and there seems to be teeth in the writing to eliminate nuisance users, disturbers of the tranquility and loud vehicles.

    I would love to see those douches get turned around at the park gate.

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    Thank you Replacement. You've expressed exactly how I feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    You don't need a pass to take the through lane, if you are driving straight through the park to points beyond you do not require a park pass, ever.
    In that case if you want use the pass through lane register your plate online.
    It's an important long-distance highway. It's at least as important that pass-throughs of the gate are hassle-free as for repeat visitors.

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    ^ There's a pass-thru lane at the Banff park boundary near Canmore - if you're passing through to Golden or Radium without stopping then you don't need to buy a sticker, you don't need to register a plate, you don't need to do a damn thing. If they build a pass-thru lane at Jasper east gate then why does this need to be different?
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 04-07-2015 at 05:00 PM.
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    I agree with the latter. There should be a freeflow lane at east gate for people just going through or that have a parks pass. However, I always have a parks pass (buy it every year just to support the National Parks) and if there are not lineups and you have the pass displayed they wave you right through. Most times I don't even come to a stop, just a rolling go. The staff seem to be trained to wave you quickly through when you have a pass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ There's a pass-thru lane at the Banff park boundary near Canmore - if you're passing through to Golden or Radium without stopping then you don't need to buy a sticker, you don't need to register a plate, you don't need to do a damn thing. If they build a pass-thru lane at Jasper east gate then why does this need to be different?
    There have been complaints that the lane is much abused by people from Calgary visiting the park and skipping the pass. If that is considered a problem and a reason to not put at the east gate to JNP then I was proffering possible solutions to that objection.

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    If national park users don't have a pass then they are supposed to be ticketed. If park usage without a pass has increased then maybe Parks Canada needs to step up their enforcement. If the fine for not having a pass is too low then maybe it should be jacked up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ There's a pass-thru lane at the Banff park boundary near Canmore - if you're passing through to Golden or Radium without stopping then you don't need to buy a sticker, you don't need to register a plate, you don't need to do a damn thing. If they build a pass-thru lane at Jasper east gate then why does this need to be different?
    There have been complaints that the lane is much abused by people from Calgary visiting the park and skipping the pass. If that is considered a problem and a reason to not put at the east gate to JNP then I was proffering possible solutions to that objection.
    To be clear though Paul when I voiced that I specifically pointed out that JNP also operates a checkpoint INSIDE the park on highway 93 before the Mt Edith, Marmot basin turnoff essentially meaning that virtually everybody using that park ends up getting checked. They stop everybody there. There is no such booth operating anywhere inside Banff.

    In JNP they also regularly target people coming back from skytram/Whistlers mountain road. If you don't have a parks pass going there you get dinged.

    My issue is that the enforcement of passes and operation of checkpoints is virtually nonexistent in Banff, and hardcore in Jasper. Not that I mind personally, just that both parks should be doing the same. I don't see why Calgarians, (and I don't know one that has ever been caught) don't have to pay as well for a Parks pass. The irony being Calgarians use Banff National Park more than Edmontonians use Jasper due to proximity. Indeed it seems as if in Banff the national parks service backs off so as to allow more weekend/all day visits from Calgarians and or Canmore residents.

    Shouldn't be a disparity in enforcement but surely there is.

    The problem isn't the free flow lane into Banff. The problem is you can be in Banff for a month and not get caught not having a parks pass. The solution is easy. Put a checkpoint on highway just past Banff townsite and before Bow Valley Parkway turnoff. That way everybody using the park and exploring it would be checked.
    Last edited by Replacement; 04-07-2015 at 07:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    If national park users don't have a pass then they are supposed to be ticketed. If park usage without a pass has increased then maybe Parks Canada needs to step up their enforcement. If the fine for not having a pass is too low then maybe it should be jacked up.
    Its an absolute joke that there is a parks pass checkpoint on the icefields highway just pass Whistlers/Wabasso and there are no comparable checkpoints in Banff National Park. With the latter park ironically having far more no pass users.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ There's a pass-thru lane at the Banff park boundary near Canmore - if you're passing through to Golden or Radium without stopping then you don't need to buy a sticker, you don't need to register a plate, you don't need to do a damn thing. If they build a pass-thru lane at Jasper east gate then why does this need to be different?
    There have been complaints that the lane is much abused by people from Calgary visiting the park and skipping the pass. If that is considered a problem and a reason to not put at the east gate to JNP then I was proffering possible solutions to that objection.
    To be clear though Paul when I voiced that I specifically pointed out that JNP also operates a checkpoint INSIDE the park on highway 93 before the Mt Edith, Marmot basin turnoff essentially meaning that virtually everybody using that park ends up getting checked. They stop everybody there. There is no such booth operating anywhere inside Banff.

    In JNP they also regularly target people coming back from skytram/Whistlers mountain road. If you don't have a parks pass going there you get dinged.

    My issue is that the enforcement of passes and operation of checkpoints is virtually nonexistent in Banff, and hardcore in Jasper. Not that I mind personally, just that both parks should be doing the same. I don't see why Calgarians, (and I don't know one that has ever been caught) don't have to pay as well for a Parks pass. The irony being Calgarians use Banff National Park more than Edmontonians use Jasper due to proximity. Indeed it seems as if in Banff the national parks service backs off so as to allow more weekend/all day visits from Calgarians and or Canmore residents.

    Shouldn't be a disparity in enforcement but surely there is.

    The problem isn't the free flow lane into Banff. The problem is you can be in Banff for a month and not get caught not having a parks pass. The solution is easy. Put a checkpoint on highway just past Banff townsite and before Bow Valley Parkway turnoff. That way everybody using the park and exploring it would be checked.
    No disagreement. All I was doing was offering an additional way enforcement could be handled using methods of toll enforcement that are common for bridges and toll roads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Sweet. Shiny new roads to the worst hotels in the province.
    Bingo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    If national park users don't have a pass then they are supposed to be ticketed. If park usage without a pass has increased then maybe Parks Canada needs to step up their enforcement. If the fine for not having a pass is too low then maybe it should be jacked up.
    Its an absolute joke that there is a parks pass checkpoint on the icefields highway just pass Whistlers/Wabasso and there are no comparable checkpoints in Banff National Park. With the latter park ironically having far more no pass users.
    There is a checkpoint where the icefield parkway merges with the trans-Canada, but I've never seen it manned.

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    Keep in mind that Jasper National Park is also popular for its night skies, so construction would probably have minimal new lighting. I think it might be wise to work on Highway 16 west of Jasper, and perhaps the wildlife zones.
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    I don't know what the Federal government is thinking on these national park access roads.

    They are utilized almost solely for two reasons: tourism and commercial shipping. That means that a huge proportion of the traffic is not regular or local.

    What does this suggest? Perfect opportunity for toll roads. Open up the projects to a P3 model like those used in Europe, in which the government gives a firm the rights to use the land in return for financing, constructing, and maintaining the road on their own. They collect tolls to pay for them, and not one cent comes out of income tax dollars. The ultimate in user pays "benefit principle" financing.

    Canada is WAY behind on toll roads. We should have them all over, especially in Alberta with roads that are almost solely used for commercial purposes (highway 63). We could build autobahn quality, world class roads all over the province if we started collecting tolls.

  37. #37
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    I've seen checkpoints lots of times on the following Lake Minnewanka Road, start of the Icefields, Bow Valley Parkway. I've seen wardens check vehicles at different trail heads more than once. They probably should check the parking lots and parkade in Banff too.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I've seen checkpoints lots of times on the following Lake Minnewanka Road, start of the Icefields, Bow Valley Parkway. I've seen wardens check vehicles at different trail heads more than once. They probably should check the parking lots and parkade in Banff too.
    They do, Lake Louise too, with the zealousness of a downtown meter maid.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I've seen checkpoints lots of times on the following Lake Minnewanka Road, start of the Icefields, Bow Valley Parkway. I've seen wardens check vehicles at different trail heads more than once. They probably should check the parking lots and parkade in Banff too.
    Again a permanent checkpoint that stops ALL traffic in JNP headed south of Townsite on highway 93 and that is in operation all summer (around 5kms south of Jasper townsite) is different than intermittent checks which I have rarely seen in Banff. This being even more curious in Banff given the free flow lane and the attitude of most Calgarians I know of why even get a pass.

    Heres a distinction. In Jasper you HAVE to have a pass if you are staying at all. You don't get through the east gates without it. Then you also go through the checkpoint WITHIN the park each time travelling south. On a trip to Jasper last summer I was checked no less than 6 times. Once even on Whistlers Skytram road. The same year in Banff I was checked 0 times. Operationally speaking this is the type of difference. Which shouldn't be.
    Last edited by Replacement; 06-07-2015 at 10:45 AM.
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    $210M only gives you half a renovated federal building and square. I wonder how much $210M can actually do for JNP? I hope it goes well.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    If national park users don't have a pass then they are supposed to be ticketed. If park usage without a pass has increased then maybe Parks Canada needs to step up their enforcement. If the fine for not having a pass is too low then maybe it should be jacked up.
    Its an absolute joke that there is a parks pass checkpoint on the icefields highway just pass Whistlers/Wabasso and there are no comparable checkpoints in Banff National Park. With the latter park ironically having far more no pass users.
    There is a checkpoint in Banff on the Icefield Parkway just north of Hwy 1 plus one on Hwy 11 at the entrance to Banff NP.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I've seen checkpoints lots of times on the following Lake Minnewanka Road, start of the Icefields, Bow Valley Parkway. I've seen wardens check vehicles at different trail heads more than once. They probably should check the parking lots and parkade in Banff too.
    Again a permanent checkpoint that stops ALL traffic in JNP headed south of Townsite on highway 93 and that is in operation all summer (around 5kms south of Jasper townsite) is different than intermittent checks which I have rarely seen in Banff. This being even more curious in Banff given the free flow lane and the attitude of most Calgarians I know of why even get a pass.
    My understanding (correct me if you think I am wrong), is that you only need a pass if you stop in the national park. A lot of people driving through are not going to stop, they passing through to BC, so they don't require a pass. If you don't buy a pass, and stop somewhere, you run the risk of a heft fine, I'm guessing this is policed at various places in the national park.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldergrove View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    If national park users don't have a pass then they are supposed to be ticketed. If park usage without a pass has increased then maybe Parks Canada needs to step up their enforcement. If the fine for not having a pass is too low then maybe it should be jacked up.
    Its an absolute joke that there is a parks pass checkpoint on the icefields highway just pass Whistlers/Wabasso and there are no comparable checkpoints in Banff National Park. With the latter park ironically having far more no pass users.
    There is a checkpoint in Banff on the Icefield Parkway just north of Hwy 1 plus one on Hwy 11 at the entrance to Banff NP.
    In context of wording I was obviously referring to checkpoints that stop all traffic, and check all traffic. I've made that specific point in several posts. Neither the highway 1 Banff East entrance or the bolded checkpoint stops all traffic. The bolded in my experience doesn't stop any traffic. I don't even recall it being manned.

    Again, the difference is the JNP East gates and the icefields parkway checkpoint found within the park STOPS ALL TRAFFIC and CHECKS EVERYBODY. I don't know how I could make this point any clearer.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-07-2015 at 02:07 PM.
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    There shouldn't be any checkpoints that stops everyone, except for the Icefields Parkway. Passes can be checked in parking lots - i.e. those who have actually stopped to use the national park.
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  45. #45

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    Maybe the park will get running water at the tourist sites, not smelly old chemical toilet outhouses.

    What a disgrace to the international tourists.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Maybe the park will get running water at the tourist sites, not smelly old chemical toilet outhouses.

    What a disgrace to the international tourists.
    The campgrounds and sites near town have running water, showers, etc. As for why every site does not have this, you have to consider the challenges of servicing these areas which are very remote, and how short the season is.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 08-07-2015 at 10:12 AM.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Maybe the park will get running water at the tourist sites, not smelly old chemical toilet outhouses.
    I'm pretty sure every other country on earth has outhouses at some locations (well maybe not those places that often don't have toilets at all).

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    Maybe the park will get running water at the tourist sites, not smelly old chemical toilet outhouses.

    What a disgrace to the international tourists.
    Oh my.

    Many of those international tourists have probably experienced much worse facility at home and abroad. Nearly any of them, with any consideration, can probably connect the dots that in pristine, far out of the way places in a world renowned Heritage National Park that not all places need to have fully connected plumbing and utilities. Plus that the toilets I have seen are the air flushing limited water use design. Really not hard to use, not smelly, and hardly unpleasant. Really no more unpleasant than a facility on a Train, on a plane, on a ferry, etc.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  49. #49

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    All I can say is that I've been checked at the Icefield Parkways northbound checkpoint near the trans Canada hwy on numerous occasions. I've also gone south on the Icefield Parkway from Jasper and found the booth unmanned.

  50. #50

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    The both south bound south of jasper is their because of not only the icefields parkway but because Marmot is there and the high probability of catching people 'just going through' while skiing for the day.

    Is it really that inconvenient?

  51. #51
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    I don't mind stopping to buy a pass, but when I'm traveling through to Vancouver and have to wait quite a while for a long line of tourists to ask all sorts of questions, that I do mind.

    You can buy yearly national park passes online
    http://www.achatsparcs-parksstore.ca...g/Section/All/

    You can also buy day passes for Banff, Yoho (accepted at Jasper) here
    https://parkpass.banfflakelouise.com/

    You can also buy a day pass for Banff at the Canmore rest area

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    The national parks should stop charging admission and instead charge a little more for camping and put an extra tax on hotels, and maybe charge for parking in some places. All of the annoying, delay causing manned checkpoints at the gates could then be shut down.

    Highway 16 in Jasper needs fencing and wildlife crossings like highway 1 in Banff. It doesn't need a full twinning, but some passing lanes would be good. It is unfortunate that we chose to co-locate our major national parks and our major transportation corridors in centuries past, but it is done now and we need to make things work better for both through traffic and for wildlife.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    I don't know what the Federal government is thinking on these national park access roads.

    They are utilized almost solely for two reasons: tourism and commercial shipping. That means that a huge proportion of the traffic is not regular or local.

    What does this suggest? Perfect opportunity for toll roads. Open up the projects to a P3 model like those used in Europe, in which the government gives a firm the rights to use the land in return for financing, constructing, and maintaining the road on their own. They collect tolls to pay for them, and not one cent comes out of income tax dollars. The ultimate in user pays "benefit principle" financing.

    Canada is WAY behind on toll roads. We should have them all over, especially in Alberta with roads that are almost solely used for commercial purposes (highway 63). We could build autobahn quality, world class roads all over the province if we started collecting tolls.
    We could have lots of nice roads if we started charging European level fuel taxes, with no need for tolls.

  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post

    Highway 16 in Jasper needs fencing and wildlife crossings like highway 1 in Banff. It doesn't need a full twinning, but some passing lanes would be good. It is unfortunate that we chose to co-locate our major national parks and our major transportation corridors in centuries past, but it is done now and we need to make things work better for both through traffic and for wildlife.
    The thing is, there probably isn't another suitable pass through the Rockies between Hwy 11 and Hwy 16. Being one of the relatively rare major passes through the Rockies, it's the reason the corridor is so popular with both wildlife and humans.

    There might be a pass through if you go north, through Wildmore Wilderness, but right now there are not even roads there let alone highways. In any case, where would it take you? The only somewhat sized destination I can think of is Prince George, but is there really that much Prince George - Edmonton commercial traffic? Also the straight, flat, twinned Highway 43 crosses the border about a 100km west of Grande Prairie, and that also happens to be part of the busy CanaMex trail.

    As for fencing off wildlife, well I'm not too convinced on the overpasses for them and how well that's working..yet. Plus, don't underestimate the effect that has on tourists. It might have lost it's luster for Edmontonians who make the frequent trip, but it's very special to see highway wildlife for Europeans and Asians. Many North Americans too.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 13-07-2015 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Highway 11, not 1 -- Red Deer to Saskatchewan Crossing

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    ^^^ To be fair, the setting up of Jasper and Banff national parks along transportation corridors was done way back in 1907, a time when most people and goods traveled by train or by horse, and a gas-powered vehicle traveling at 100 km/hr was a far-flung fantasy. So those decisions were probably the best ones back then. But now we have to live with those decisions and find the best balance between the park visitors and the travelers and commercial traffic who just need to pass through.

    ^ That's another reason why I put forward the idea of a new Hwy 16 for through traffic, and let the current highway be a tourist route akin to the Bow Valley Parkway. Commercial traffic and travelers to/from BC can pass through, while the tourists can stay on the old road c/w up-close encounters with lakes and bumper-licking mountain goats!

    The Yellowhead Pass is one of the best passes for large commercial vehicles because the climbs are not as steep as the ones down south. That's why the rail was built through there. I doubt there's anything better in the vicinity.

    As for commercial traffic: Vancouver-Edmonton, Prince Rupert-Edmonton. Prince Rupert is a major Pacific port for shipping between Canada and Asia, and Edmonton will be next major inland port after Prince Rupert. Therefore if the Port Alberta thing is going to be a viable concern then the transportation through Jasper will need to be addressed sooner or later.
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    Good point. And whether we like it or not, sometime in the coming decade(s), it will be twinned.

  57. #57

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    I won't say it won't ever happen, but there are so would be so many challenges of that. They would need to blast away mountain at some sections.

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