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Thread: Commonwealth stadium - to roof or not to roof?

  1. #101

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    I'm aware of the metro. The same with Edmonton
    Our metro at 1.4 and add northern Alberta, BC, and SK. All these region with high income due to natural resources.

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    We will not see an NFL team here. And neeeext subject.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Being an NFL city wouldn't be image boosting?
    Not by an amount worth the investment.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    You guys are forgetting one thing preventing Edmonton from being NFL: Our dollar.
    Someone tell the Raptors and Blue Jays, and every NHL team.

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    ^ I was thinking in the broader scheme of things but yes your right. I'm sure if the NFL wanted to expand into Canada they'd first move into Toronto.
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    I won't type out how much I'm laughing at the suggestion of an NFL team in Edmonton. It would break C2E most likely.

    As for the NFL actual numbers - http://static.nfl.com/static/content...rkets_2011.pdf

    There are so many markets in the states that they would look at before anything in Canada, except for maybe Toronto.

    But hey, I hope that each one of you wins the lottery over the next several months too.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    I might be in the minority but I think we could support an nfl team, not that there's a chance in hell it would ever happen.
    I think it would be supported as well (it's a well run league with tight salary caps, etc), but like you say, it would never happen. Toronto can't get an NFL team (various rumours NFL doesnt want to expand outside US, or the impact of Buffalo so close).

  8. #108

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    So that's it then.

    Nothing against revamping the concourses, bleachers on the track, maybe Winnipegesque rain shields, whatever accommodations for whatever one-offs come along, but emphatically zero call for a roof.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    for those of you who are against a domed structure and enjoy the open air experience of Eskimo football tonight is your night.

    I hope everyone is having a good time.

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    Hermetically sealed everything!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    for those of you who are against a domed structure and enjoy the open air experience of Eskimo football tonight is your night.

    I hope everyone is having a good time.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 12-09-2015 at 10:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    for those of you who are against a domed structure and enjoy the open air experience of Eskimo football tonight is your night.

    I hope everyone is having a good time.
    To put things in perspective, the BC Lions have been playing in the rain for decades. It rains at Commonwealth what maybe 2 times/season?
    Last edited by envaneo; 13-09-2015 at 02:20 AM.
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    I'm against a domed structure and had a great time at the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    for those of you who are against a domed structure and enjoy the open air experience of Eskimo football tonight is your night.

    I hope everyone is having a good time.
    To put things in perspective, the BC Lions have been playing in the rain for decades. It rains at Commonwealth what maybe 2 times/season?
    I hadn't realized it rains in BC Place stadium

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I'm against a domed structure and had a great time at the game.
    Good for you as you were one of the 10,000 out of 40,000 that actually stayed for the majority of the game after the deluge started.

    And most of those were probably under in the protected seating areas on the lower level.

    No one wants to be frozen or soaked watching a sporting event anymore.

    I realize there is cost and technical issues with trying to cover the current facility- maybe look at a structure to cover some of the seating area like Winnipeg until we can construct a new retractable domed facility down the road.

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    Anymore? Did they ever want that? However, did we ever want to be inside for certain sports, not really no.
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  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I'm against a domed structure and had a great time at the game.
    Good for you as you were one of the 10,000 out of 40,000 that actually stayed for the majority of the game after the deluge started.

    And most of those were probably under in the protected seating areas on the lower level.

    No one wants to be frozen or soaked watching a sporting event anymore.

    I realize there is cost and technical issues with trying to cover the current facility- maybe look at a structure to cover some of the seating area like Winnipeg until we can construct a new retractable domed facility down the road.
    Theres other easier answers than building a roof on Commonwealth that I've mentioned several times in connection with the Esks.

    If its a weekend game have it in the early Afternoon. it was a beautiful day right until game time and then by the first quarter end the weather started happening.

    We're a prairie city, our climate is such that weather disturbances can often build up during the day and release a deluge in the evening. Any hourly research into when it rains here and how much rain there is would be skewed to evening. Theres no reason, none, not to have a football game in September here on a weekend played during the day when the weather, temp, is typically much more enjoyable.

    Used to be a time here when ALL games starting from September were afternoon games. I would make all games all year afternoon games if they are on weekends.
    if the CFL wants to put priority on TV time slot programming over actual fan experience at the games this is a pretty tricky slope they are embarking on. Because getting people out to games is an important part of league exposure and getting younger crowds into it.

    More and more games are played in the evenings. That's one of the biggest problems. Theres of course more likelihood of inclement weather in that time frame.
    Last edited by Replacement; 13-09-2015 at 09:59 AM.
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    ^its all about TV revenue when they want the games scheduled.

    TSN dictates to a large part what the schedule is.

    And because of that attendance suffers due to scheduling and weather

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I'm against a domed structure and had a great time at the game.
    Good for you as you were one of the 10,000 out of 40,000 that actually stayed for the majority of the game after the deluge started.

    And most of those were probably under in the protected seating areas on the lower level.

    No one wants to be frozen or soaked watching a sporting event anymore.

    I realize there is cost and technical issues with trying to cover the current facility- maybe look at a structure to cover some of the seating area like Winnipeg until we can construct a new retractable domed facility down the road.
    How many hundreds of millions should be spent so people don't get cold or wet a few times a year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    for those of you who are against a domed structure and enjoy the open air experience of Eskimo football tonight is your night.

    I hope everyone is having a good time.
    To put things in perspective, the BC Lions have been playing in the rain for decades. It rains at Commonwealth what maybe 2 times/season?
    I hadn't realized it rains in BC Place stadium
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I'm against a domed structure and had a great time at the game.
    Good for you as you were one of the 10,000 out of 40,000 that actually stayed for the majority of the game after the deluge started.

    And most of those were probably under in the protected seating areas on the lower level.

    No one wants to be frozen or soaked watching a sporting event anymore.

    I realize there is cost and technical issues with trying to cover the current facility- maybe look at a structure to cover some of the seating area like Winnipeg until we can construct a new retractable domed facility down the road.
    How many hundreds of millions should be spent so people don't get cold or wet a few times a year?
    Have some vision - If the facility was enclosed it would have year round capability which would increase the number of events it can hold. It's not only football but concerts, exhibitions, conventions, WWE, UFC etc. As far as cost yes even I have my limits as to what we should be spending - it may be a situation where Commonwealth is just too expensive to enclose based on design - but the next stadium in Edmonton will be with a retractable roof - no doubt.

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  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    I'm against a domed structure and had a great time at the game.
    Good for you as you were one of the 10,000 out of 40,000 that actually stayed for the majority of the game after the deluge started.

    And most of those were probably under in the protected seating areas on the lower level.

    No one wants to be frozen or soaked watching a sporting event anymore.

    I realize there is cost and technical issues with trying to cover the current facility- maybe look at a structure to cover some of the seating area like Winnipeg until we can construct a new retractable domed facility down the road.
    How many hundreds of millions should be spent so people don't get cold or wet a few times a year?
    Have some vision - If the facility was enclosed it would have year round capability which would increase the number of events it can hold. It's not only football but concerts, exhibitions, conventions, WWE, UFC etc. As far as cost yes even I have my limits as to what we should be spending - it may be a situation where Commonwealth is just too expensive to enclose based on design - but the next stadium in Edmonton will be with a retractable roof - no doubt.
    This has already been shotdown earlier in the thread. Take a look at the Events that happen in BC place in the winter. Few and far between. Its a myth that theres huge touring Stadium specific acts that sweep through NA in the winter. Doesn't happen here, doesn't happen anywhere on the continent.

    Fact of the matter is that there is a dearth of acts of any kind that are Stadium level events. Whether it be Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter.

    These Stadia are usually white elephants tht are not all that busy. We happen to have one that is at least turn key friendly and that doesn't require extensive maintenance.
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  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Article doesn't have much substance. But if you even read it its quite nostalgic about empire.

    Lets not forget that BC Place is also reborn in its now 2nd enclosed configuration and has been exorbitantly expensive to maintain and in its retrofits and latest massive reconfiguration. The old BC Place had already become a place that was unpopular and with fans complaining about the cold, dank, user experience.

    For all this money, the main tenant, the BC Lions had an alltime average attendance of 25K at Empire Stadium and has an average of 21K thus far this season at the exceedingly expensive BC place.

    Ah progress...
    Last edited by Replacement; 13-09-2015 at 01:51 PM.
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    Argos are moving from the billion dollar Rogers Skydome to the modest BMO Field in 2016.

  26. #126

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    The cost versus the usage.

    What is the most used rectangular field venue in the World?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  27. #127

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    Was out in my junky poncho and still made it through 3 quarters. Probably the most rain I have experienced at an Esks game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Article doesn't have much substance. But if you even read it its quite nostalgic about empire.

    Lets not forget that BC Place is also reborn in its now 2nd enclosed configuration and has been exorbitantly expensive to maintain and in its retrofits and latest massive reconfiguration. The old BC Place had already become a place that was unpopular and with fans complaining about the cold, dank, user experience.

    For all this money, the main tenant, the BC Lions had an alltime average attendance of 25K at Empire Stadium and has an average of 21K thus far this season at the exceedingly expensive BC place.

    Ah progress...
    Why are you comparing alltime attendance at the old stadium to just one season at BC Place? I'm not sure what the alltime average at BC is, but most of the last decade for example, has been around or over 30k.

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    The city has invested a lot of dollars over the years into Stadium. With all the face lifts, upgrades and renovations over the years what's next for Commonwealth?
    Last edited by envaneo; 14-09-2015 at 04:07 PM.
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  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Article doesn't have much substance. But if you even read it its quite nostalgic about empire.

    Lets not forget that BC Place is also reborn in its now 2nd enclosed configuration and has been exorbitantly expensive to maintain and in its retrofits and latest massive reconfiguration. The old BC Place had already become a place that was unpopular and with fans complaining about the cold, dank, user experience.

    For all this money, the main tenant, the BC Lions had an alltime average attendance of 25K at Empire Stadium and has an average of 21K thus far this season at the exceedingly expensive BC place.

    Ah progress...
    Why are you comparing alltime attendance at the old stadium to just one season at BC Place? I'm not sure what the alltime average at BC is, but most of the last decade for example, has been around or over 30k.
    huh? this is the brand new exorbitantly expensive BC Place. The one that was so highly touted and said to be so great. That was so recently remodeled. Its 2015 and already BC Lions are drawing flies for home games. You don't think that's significant in any way?

    btw BC Lions attendance through the years at BC PLACE haven't averaged 30K since the original stadium opened. prior to 94 cup win the Leos had gone into a death spiral on and off the field and there were worries the team would not be able to continue financially. Then the Leos attendance plummeted around the millennium and for years where they had average attendance figures of under 20K which is just terrible for pro football. you seem to be familiar with only their recent years of attendance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Article doesn't have much substance. But if you even read it its quite nostalgic about empire.

    Lets not forget that BC Place is also reborn in its now 2nd enclosed configuration and has been exorbitantly expensive to maintain and in its retrofits and latest massive reconfiguration. The old BC Place had already become a place that was unpopular and with fans complaining about the cold, dank, user experience.

    For all this money, the main tenant, the BC Lions had an alltime average attendance of 25K at Empire Stadium and has an average of 21K thus far this season at the exceedingly expensive BC place.

    Ah progress...
    Why are you comparing alltime attendance at the old stadium to just one season at BC Place? I'm not sure what the alltime average at BC is, but most of the last decade for example, has been around or over 30k.
    huh? this is the brand new exorbitantly expensive BC Place. The one that was so highly touted and said to be so great. That was so recently remodeled. Its 2015 and already BC Lions are drawing flies for home games. You don't think that's significant in any way?

    btw BC Lions attendance through the years at BC PLACE haven't averaged 30K since the original stadium opened. prior to 94 cup win the Leos had gone into a death spiral on and off the field and there were worries the team would not be able to continue financially. Then the Leos attendance plummeted around the millennium and for years where they had average attendance figures of under 20K which is just terrible for pro football. you seem to be familiar with only their recent years of attendance.
    Sure, maybe I misunderstood the tone of your post. If the point you were trying to make is that fancy & expensive retrofitting of facilities does nothing to improve long term attendance, then I am fully in agreement.

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    AC/DC gig this weekend, let's see how wet and soggy this gets. They should ship in some mud!
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    wet and soggy but no mud we hope - its artificial turf

    have fun whoever is going - enjoy the cool temps and the rain today

  34. #134

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    The weather stunk but the show was awesome. I brought my rain clothes - it didn't matter that it was outdoors.

  35. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    The weather stunk but the show was awesome. I brought my rain clothes - it didn't matter that it was outdoors.
    AC/DC and Grey Cups tend to warm people up. Just dress for the conditions and soak in the atmosphere. excusing pun.

    Alternate if its some lame entertainment I might not be as inclined to stick around.

    Takes me back to a long ago memory at commonwealth.

    Foreigner, circa Rock Circus, is playing an extended version of their song "cold as ice" in the pelting cold rain. Back in the day you didn't even have todays hitech outerwear so we were all drenched and shivering wondering at the setlist choices and if the damn song was ever going to end..Its one of those songs that seems repetitive and twice as long as it should be anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    The weather stunk but the show was awesome. I brought my rain clothes - it didn't matter that it was outdoors.
    same back at Sonic Boom this year. wore a rain jacket - simple. it's warm when you're in the middle of a big crowd anyway.

    as for roofing commonwealth - why take away the authenticity of sports? we don't have to be cry-babies about everything do we? if you don't like the weather stay at home and watch tv. i take the bad with the good. only way to experience life.
    Last edited by DTrobotnik; 22-09-2015 at 03:57 PM.

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    Thank you
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  38. #138

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    As soon as this is over I wouldn't mind if we discuss the concourses.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    There was talk of a 50/50 fundraiser at the Grey Cup to cover the Brick Field for winter events.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    There was talk of a 50/50 fundraiser at the Grey Cup to cover the Brick Field for winter events.
    https://edmontonsun.com/sports/footb...wealth-stadium

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    I think a roof would be great. We could have events during winter. Imagine a sold out January concert indoors with 60,000 present. Lots of other things we could do in that large a space. It would be super nice. Nice not to have it in summer though

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    I think it is only for recreational purposes they are not covering the whole stadium.
    “The benefit would be to allow amateur football and other amateur sports access to a facility during the winter months. Equipping the stadium for winter use will maximize use of the facility during the entire 12-month calendar and provide the community with added recreation space.
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  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I think a roof would be great. We could have events during winter. Imagine a sold out January concert indoors with 60,000 present. Lots of other things we could do in that large a space. It would be super nice. Nice not to have it in summer though
    How many concerts does BC Place or the Skydome host in the winter? Not many. Considering the cost of roofing such a large stadium, the return wouldn't be worth it.

  44. #144

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    ^ I think I'd have to agree. There are already other indoor venues for concerts in Edmonton. Instead of 1 concert at commonwealth with 40-60k spectators, many acts will just choose to do 2 or 3 shows at Rogers anyways. Plus it would take away some of the novelty from having those large outdoor concerts in the summer, as well as the Eskimos games. That has got to be the biggest perk of the cfl season, that it runs through the summer. Bright and warm (usually) all evening.

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    NFL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    NFL!
    Edmonton is too small of a market for the NFL to be interested. If we were considered a good market for American standards, we would already have NFL and NBA.

    I think it would be really nice and smart if they did at least further enclose the entire space under the stands at Commonwealth.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Does someone have a pic or example of what they are proposing as far as an inflatable dome to cover the playing surface?

  48. #148

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    Based on the price they're tossing about, I imagine it will be similar to the soccer dome on the south side.


  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Based on the price they're tossing about, I imagine it will be similar to the soccer dome on the south side.

    Youíre thinking what I was thinking. I think itís a good investment.

  50. #150

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    I can't really see what the point is. Scottish Society already has a facility like this at Ellerslie. if all you're doing is just covering the field, and not the stands, or part of the stands its essentially a non venue. At that point it just becomes a pitch. Teams can already utilize the Indoor half field adjacent to Commonwealth. Play on that or play indoor soccer in ice rinks. Who needs to be playing soccer through the winter anyway?

    I don't understand the need for this. Just seems silly. What one purpose does it actually serve?

    Its kind of frustrating as well that at this exact time of belt tightening, when the Alberta economy is crap, when people are saying no to Olympics, not buying Grey Cup tickets, and having trouble managing rapidly increasing taxes and property tax that the eskimos are floating this.

    Also the Esks really aren't paying anything into this, just coming from the 50/50 proceeds from what has been stated. So the Esks push 500K of not their money, thereby requiring at least another 2M publicly financed.

    Can we have a bit of a moratorium on constant pie in the sky concepts and ways to further spend tax money?

    If people want this wheres the private sponsorship, wheres the passing of the hat of endusers? This is a very specific, and niche want.

    Very few people will ever use the facility at Ellerslie, and not many more would use this one.

    It seems as if I blinked, and suddenly the Edmonton Eskimos org has become Northlands, just looking for ways to milk public funding of their constantly dying endeavors.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-11-2018 at 06:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Based on the price they're tossing about, I imagine it will be similar to the soccer dome on the south side.

    sorry, i just donít get this at all... how many events would this host during the winter and who would decide when it went up and when it came down? this year it couldnít go up until december- which is pretty much the same for any year the esks eventually host a playoff game or two. and it would have to come down in the spring before the stadium could host anything in front of a crowd. if thereís a real need for this, find a place it could exist year round. thereís a couple of hundred acres on the exhibition lands that arenít too far away. maybe the esks could give $500k to concordia for something they could use all year and keep the rights for the esks to use it ďxĒ times a year.
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  52. #152

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    Nope, I don't see the need either.

    The Scottish society soccer dome is larger than this is proposed to be. Football field is about 40,000 sq ft. The soccer dome is 135,000 sq ft. So a bit over three times the size. The soccer dome cost $7 million, with city grants covering $2.9 million and the society taking out a mortgage on the rest. In this case, the Esks are proposing to "donate" funds from the 50/50 draw with, presumably, the city picking up the balance. Based on the soccer dome, the city could be on the hook for about the same amount if not more.

    This would make more sense if the put it over Clarke instead of the field at Commonwealth. Make it big enough to include the stands, change rooms, etc. Clarke costs a lot less to operate than Commonwealth.

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    The reason is that that expensive field, power, facilities etc. already exists so it's just the cost of the dome.

    Comparing this to the Soccer dome is not equivalent scopes.

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    The reason is that that expensive field, power, facilities etc. already exists so it's just the cost of the dome.

    Comparing this to the Soccer dome is not equivalent scopes.
    the cost of a new field is between $2 and 3 psf for real turf and about twice that for artificial turf. with a typical field needing 80 - 100,000 sf of turf, that’s about $500,000 for the field. power isn’t really there under the proposed dome so it would have to be brought in and installed anew every year and dismantled and removed every year for 5 months’ use at commonwealth. although it’s true that “facilities exist” at commonwealth, they’re likely way oversized and commensurately more expensive to access and use than part of a dedicated facility where the field would be available year round, not just in the winter. my guess is the additional costs of setting up and tearing down every year would more than pay for the costs of doing it right somewhere else. if indeed it’s needed.
    Last edited by kcantor; 18-11-2018 at 01:52 PM.
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  55. #155

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    If they want to put a roof on the stadium they should do it right and cover the entire building instead of just the field.
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  56. #156

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    Which would be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The replacement roof of BC place was ~$500 million. You'd need a similar design with the towers. We could conceivably do it without the retractable option but that wouldn't save a whole lot initially although the maintenance would probably be a bit less.



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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    The reason is that that expensive field, power, facilities etc. already exists so it's just the cost of the dome.

    Comparing this to the Soccer dome is not equivalent scopes.
    the cost of a new field is between $2 and 3 psf for real turf and about twice that for artificial turf. with a typical field needing 80 - 100,000 sf of turf, that’s about $500,000 for the field. power isn’t really there under the proposed dome so it would have to be brought in and installed anew every year and dismantled and removed every year for 5 months’ use at commonwealth. although it’s true that “facilities exist” at commonwealth, they’re likely way oversized and commensurately more expensive to access and use than part of a dedicated facility where the field would be available year round, not just in the winter. my guess is the additional costs of setting up and tearing down every year would more than pay for the costs of doing it right somewhere else. if indeed it’s needed.
    https://fieldturf.com/en/why-fieldturf/cost-analysis/
    This says 8.75USD a sq ft...or about 11.50CAD...with drainage base. That doesn't include any other ground works. When I say power I mean the large service required, not the power inside the dome. Commonwealth also has locker rooms, and the other peripherals required.
    Considering this is Edmonton, those costs are likely low on a per sq ft basis.

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    Would a BC place style roof cost less then that piece of crap known as the Funicular?
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  59. #159

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    BC place roof, the replacement for the one that ripped, cost a cool half a billion. So, about 20 funiculars.

  60. #160

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    Fun Fact

    The original Commonwealth Statism cost $23 million to build in 1978. Less than one funicular.

    Now that was in 1978 which is about $83m today based upon consumer inflation. Still a stark comparison to three and a half funiculars. Commonwealth was one of the greatest deals in the history of Edmonton considering that it was built during an oil boom and the 1976 Olympic Stadium cost over $1 billion. Heck the original 5 stations and LRT line only cost $65m in 1978 as well. The COE used to do big things in Edmonton for a bargain cost.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-11-2018 at 06:24 AM.
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  61. #161

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    Fun Fact

    The funicular’s cost was about $5 million - not over $23 million.





    The vertical elevator was $1.5 million.
    The staircase - which is not a funicular, and is not an elevator, but is a stair-case, cost something too.

    Could maybe say the funicular cost $12 or 13 million if give it half of the bridge costs and the 100% of the elevator cost. Maybe more if one said the great staircase didn’t need a bridge, but then it would have needed some more trail and it wouldn’t have ended as an observation deck.
    Last edited by KC; 19-11-2018 at 06:50 AM.

  62. #162

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    Fun Fact

    Sourced info

    Edmonton launches $24-million river valley funicular
    'It's worth the cost from a tourism and brand promotion point of view,' mayor says
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ible-1.4441601

    I agree that the funicular itself was only a portion of the cost but by the same reasoning, you can't state that the LRT costs are only the rail and rolling stock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Fun Fact

    The original Commonwealth Statism cost $23 million to build in 1978. Less than one funicular.

    Now that was in 1978 which is about $83m today based upon consumer inflation. Still a stark comparison to three and a half funiculars. Commonwealth was one of the greatest deals in the history of Edmonton considering that it was built during an oil boom and the 1976 Olympic Stadium cost over $1 billion. Heck the original 5 stations and LRT line only cost $65m in 1978 as well. The COE used to do big things in Edmonton for a bargain cost.
    Fun fact...
    1978 was 30 years after WW2 ended. 2018 is 40 years past 1978.

    The comparisons to 1978 are meaningless.

  64. #164

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    Fun Fact

    Historic references are relevant. Especially when comparing the costs of a 1976 stadium and a 1978 stadium.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-11-2018 at 09:06 AM.
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    To get back on topic (b/c, for the life of me I've no idea what a method of transportation - funicular - has to do with a football stadium) ...

    Sure, love it if some billionaire bequeathed us a roof for Commonwealth.

    But, it just can't be economically justified otherwise.

    You have to remember, including the athletics track, the acreage required to cover Commonwealth is vastly more immense than any NFL stadium.
    ... gobsmacked

  66. #166

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    Actually it should read "including where the athletic track used to be" since it's been removed. But you point is very true. There is no way that Edmonton can justify a roof over the stadium. Which, of course, probably means that various folks including the Esks will start clamouring to replace it with a domed structure, saying that it's outdated. Much like what happened with the Coliseum. The way some people were talking about it, you'd think there was raw sewage running through the concourse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Fun Fact

    The original Commonwealth Statism cost $23 million to build in 1978. Less than one funicular.

    Now that was in 1978 which is about $83m today based upon consumer inflation. Still a stark comparison to three and a half funiculars. Commonwealth was one of the greatest deals in the history of Edmonton considering that it was built during an oil boom and the 1976 Olympic Stadium cost over $1 billion. Heck the original 5 stations and LRT line only cost $65m in 1978 as well. The COE used to do big things in Edmonton for a bargain cost.
    Fun fact...
    1978 was 30 years after WW2 ended. 2018 is 40 years past 1978.

    The comparisons to 1978 are meaningless.
    Why are the comparisons meaningless when they have been adjusted for inflation?

  68. #168

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    Because, just like the new arena, "people" say they want a higher end experience. And, as a bonus, higher end means higher prices which keeps the riff-raff away from the "good folks".

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    Sitting at the game in the rain last night sure made me wish there was an investors group field style roof over the seats. During the next update it would be nice to remove some upper deck seats and build a roof like that.

  70. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Sitting at the game in the rain last night sure made me wish there was an investors group field style roof over the seats. During the next update it would be nice to remove some upper deck seats and build a roof like that.
    It would be cheaper to build a new stadium with a retractable roof. Also, have you been to BC place? The atmosphere doesn't compare at all to Commonwealth and it feels like you're in a cavern. Open air stadiums are the way to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Sitting at the game in the rain last night sure made me wish there was an investors group field style roof over the seats. During the next update it would be nice to remove some upper deck seats and build a roof like that.
    It would be cheaper to build a new stadium with a retractable roof. Also, have you been to BC place? The atmosphere doesn't compare at all to Commonwealth and it feels like you're in a cavern. Open air stadiums are the way to go.
    UmmmÖ. you do know that the poster was referring to Investors Field in Winnipeg which does not have a retractable roof right?

  72. #172

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    My apologies Base. Clearly I didn get my coffee this morning.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

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    ^ You are on topic as far as this thread is concerned. No need to apologize to anyone here, me included.

    Actually having a BC place style roof over Commonwealth makes sense and the outcome of the game might have been different, who knows?
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  74. #174

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    I think a cost/benefit analysis would show that there's no financial reason to roof Commonwealth. How many big arena shows tour during the winter? And is it really worth the cost for a few football games?

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    ^ I don't think we have any Eskimo games played here in the month of November this year. We get what one major event at Commonwealth once every couple of years or so?
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    The reason I love this venue is its current design...
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    Unless you're prepared to have it booked more than the 6-12 times per year it is, roofing is a colossal waste.

    I would like to see what could/would be attracted with a roof.
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  78. #178

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    A roof consisting of solar panels might offset the cost of lighting up the stadium at night.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    ^ A few comments

    - what happens if Calgary get a covered stadium? Will there be pressure for Edmonton to follow suit?
    - we are the most northern large city. If we want to attempt to move to “A” city status the will needs to be there have a domed facility
    - weather has been bad and this may be the rule going forward and not the exception. Time to consider the dome option.

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    I think a few things would be great:

    (1) Cover the south end of the stadium with a (retractable) canopy during inclement weather.
    (2) Adding entrances in the upper corners (Perhaps around rows 60-6 for easier access to the upper levels.
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  81. #181

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    Why the south end? That's the rec centre end.

  82. #182

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    How many drones would it take to hold a giant tarp over the place during a game?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  83. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    ^ A few comments

    - what happens if Calgary get a covered stadium? Will there be pressure for Edmonton to follow suit?
    - we are the most northern large city. If we want to attempt to move to “A” city status the will needs to be there have a domed facility
    - weather has been bad and this may be the rule going forward and not the exception. Time to consider the dome option.
    The option of covering the stadium as stated isnít economic at costing over half a billion dollars. You would be better off building a new stadium at the cost and thereís no need to do so.

    Itís not like weíre the only open air stadium in North America, thereís some bitter cold cities in Michigan and Wisconsin that experience comparable weather and they do just fine. Not to mention you need to experience a closed stadium environment before selling yourself on the idea. Itís absolutely brutal.

    Commonwealth is a beautiful old lady thatís been kept up to date. My advice to people is to dress for the weather.

  84. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    How many drones would it take to hold a giant tarp over the place during a game?
    This discussion just went insane...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Sitting at the game in the rain last night sure made me wish there was an investors group field style roof over the seats. During the next update it would be nice to remove some upper deck seats and build a roof like that.
    I was at the game last night too. It was a constant but light rain for most of the game.

    It was actually no big deal if you dressed accordingly. The weather forecast prior to kickoff said 60% chance of showers. I wore a rain jacket and an Eskimos hoodie underneath. My female friend wore a hoodie and a black garbage bag. She was joking with Bombers fans that it's Manitoba fashion.

    Besides the outcome of the game, people in the stadium were having a great time.

    That's football weather! See you out there when it's -25C in the playoff game!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    How many drones would it take to hold a giant tarp over the place during a game?
    This discussion just went insane...
    This discussion just went (wait for it) through the roof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    ^ A few comments

    - what happens if Calgary get a covered stadium? Will there be pressure for Edmonton to follow suit?
    - we are the most northern large city. If we want to attempt to move to “A” city status the will needs to be there have a domed facility
    - weather has been bad and this may be the rule going forward and not the exception. Time to consider the dome option.
    The option of covering the stadium as stated isn’t economic at costing over half a billion dollars. You would be better off building a new stadium at the cost and there’s no need to do so.

    It’s not like we’re the only open air stadium in North America, there’s some bitter cold cities in Michigan and Wisconsin that experience comparable weather and they do just fine. Not to mention you need to experience a closed stadium environment before selling yourself on the idea. It’s absolutely brutal.

    Commonwealth is a beautiful old lady that’s been kept up to date. My advice to people is to dress for the weather.
    We are talking a retractable roof here not a dome and your right it probably would not work on our present stadium so your looking at a 35-40 thousand seat retractable stadium that can be used year round for sporting events, concerts, conventions, heck make it the home of the country’s national soccer training facility. Get inventive. Someone please have an ounce of vision and leadership in this city.

    With respect to dressing up for the grand old lady as you say I am old enough to know and attend cold weather games and frankly there is nothing romantic about it, it is just flipping cold, wet, windy and people are looking for a better fan experience - freezing your *** off in a cold seat is not one of them.

    It is ludicrous in this part of the world to have a major sporting facility open to the elements.
    Last edited by Rocket252; 25-08-2019 at 07:01 AM.

  88. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    ^ A few comments

    - what happens if Calgary get a covered stadium? Will there be pressure for Edmonton to follow suit?
    - we are the most northern large city. If we want to attempt to move to “A” city status the will needs to be there have a domed facility
    - weather has been bad and this may be the rule going forward and not the exception. Time to consider the dome option.
    The option of covering the stadium as stated isn’t economic at costing over half a billion dollars. You would be better off building a new stadium at the cost and there’s no need to do so.

    It’s not like we’re the only open air stadium in North America, there’s some bitter cold cities in Michigan and Wisconsin that experience comparable weather and they do just fine. Not to mention you need to experience a closed stadium environment before selling yourself on the idea. It’s absolutely brutal.

    Commonwealth is a beautiful old lady that’s been kept up to date. My advice to people is to dress for the weather.
    We are talking a retractable roof here not a dome and your right it probably would not work on our present stadium so your looking at a 35-40 thousand seat retractable stadium that can be used year round for sporting events, concerts, conventions, heck make it the home of the country’s national soccer training facility. Get inventive. Someone please have an ounce of vision and leadership in this city.

    With respect to dressing up for the grand old lady as you say I am old enough to know and attend cold weather games and frankly there is nothing romantic about it, it is just flipping cold, wet, windy and people are looking for a better fan experience - freezing your *** off in a cold seat is not one of them.

    It is ludicrous in this part of the world to have a major sporting facility open to the elements.
    Its your opinion. For decades many Argos fans HATED Skydome. Hated whenever it was closed, and even when it was open because the opening isn't so huge as to allow sunshine through the facility. People always complained about a dank, dark, concrete mausoleum feel to the place. People complained about having to be indoors, in the summer, in Canada, in our brief summers. Many fans in Toronto stating they would rather be outside, than attend a game indoors.

    The glory of Commonwealth stadium is that it IS still an outdoors stadium and with sunbaked surround. That's what most fans of it love about it.

    In getting old have we forgotten as well a notion of just being somewhat hearty?

    Its not like the rain Friday or even Yesterday was cold. Its August and the temperatures have been easy to tolerate, despite the rain. We have better weather wear than ever before, and more complaints about being outside.

    strange.

    We're never getting the National team back here and neither the CSA or Toronto would allow that to occur. The entertainment/concert industry is dying. Theres very limited need for such facilities now. Which artists, moving ahead, are U2, Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd, Paul McCartney, now? They mostly don't exist and not with continuity anyway. Which is one reason why you see precious few concert shows at Commonwealth, closed or open, because such huge touring shows drawing 50-100k sold out stadiums don't exist today. So that we'd be building a roof for nothing. For further 90% empty dates on the calendar.
    Last edited by Replacement; 25-08-2019 at 09:42 AM.
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  89. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    ^ A few comments

    - what happens if Calgary get a covered stadium? Will there be pressure for Edmonton to follow suit?
    - we are the most northern large city. If we want to attempt to move to “A” city status the will needs to be there have a domed facility
    - weather has been bad and this may be the rule going forward and not the exception. Time to consider the dome option.
    The option of covering the stadium as stated isn’t economic at costing over half a billion dollars. You would be better off building a new stadium at the cost and there’s no need to do so.

    It’s not like we’re the only open air stadium in North America, there’s some bitter cold cities in Michigan and Wisconsin that experience comparable weather and they do just fine. Not to mention you need to experience a closed stadium environment before selling yourself on the idea. It’s absolutely brutal.

    Commonwealth is a beautiful old lady that’s been kept up to date. My advice to people is to dress for the weather.
    We are talking a retractable roof here not a dome and your right it probably would not work on our present stadium so your looking at a 35-40 thousand seat retractable stadium that can be used year round for sporting events, concerts, conventions, heck make it the home of the country’s national soccer training facility. Get inventive. Someone please have an ounce of vision and leadership in this city.

    With respect to dressing up for the grand old lady as you say I am old enough to know and attend cold weather games and frankly there is nothing romantic about it, it is just flipping cold, wet, windy and people are looking for a better fan experience - freezing your *** off in a cold seat is not one of them.

    It is ludicrous in this part of the world to have a major sporting facility open to the elements.
    Its your opinion. For decades many Argos fans HATED Skydome. Hated whenever it was closed, and even when it was open because the opening isn't so huge as to allow sunshine through the facility. People always complained about a dank, dark, concrete mausoleum feel to the place. People complained about having to be indoors, in the summer, in Canada, in our brief summers. Many fans in Toronto stating they would rather be outside, than attend a game indoors.

    The glory of Commonwealth stadium is that it IS still an outdoors stadium and with sunbaked surround. That's what most fans of it love about it.

    In getting old have we forgotten as well a notion of just being somewhat hearty?

    Its not like the rain Friday or even Yesterday was cold. Its August and the temperatures have been easy to tolerate, despite the rain. We have better weather wear than ever before, and more complaints about being outside.

    strange.

    We're never getting the National team back here and neither the CSA or Toronto would allow that to occur. The entertainment/concert industry is dying. Theres very limited need for such facilities now. Which artists, moving ahead, are U2, Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd, Paul McCartney, now? They mostly don't exist and not with continuity anyway. Which is one reason why you see precious few concert shows at Commonwealth, closed or open, because such huge touring shows drawing 50-100k sold out stadiums don't exist today. So that we'd be building a roof for nothing. For further 90% empty dates on the calendar.
    Not to mention the significant engineering and technical obstacles involved with retrofitting the building to be able to support a retractable roof, I canít even imagine the costs at that point but my guess would be closer to a billion dollars for that.

    I dunno, Iíve attended my fair share of cold games. I dress in layers and get the right amount of rum in me and youíre good. 👌🏼

  90. #190

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    It is kind of really late now for that idea. CS is 50+ years old now and the retrofit, engineering and other elements before our uncalled for inflated construction cost, I could see a 1 billion pricetag. Like our hockey rink which was estimated 350 million at initial round of table which ballooned to 500+ going into construction only to find out the cost was almost 700 million with downgrades in design. All games of deception done within that 5 year span. That is a 100 % inflated value from the initial 350+ million. If construction climbed that fast,
    do we need a roof and at what cost for how many dates per year? 8 football games and what else? Further to that, what would CS lifespan be if some engineering is involved?
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  91. #191

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    Still am proud that they built the original stadium for $2M under the $25M budget and built on time with great quality. Sort of proves Medwards mantra is wrong, "low price, fast built or quality; pick two".

    Back then we got all three and laughed at Montreal when their stadium got ZERO out of three. In fact, at the time, the Montreal 'The Big Owe' was such a financial scandal, the COE was going to drop their bid for the 1978 games.
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  92. #192

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    The days of honesty is well over. I think it was Milli Vanilli group that ushered in the cheat at all cost which transformed into today's all out assault on greed. In today's construction , he is not wrong. We are actually quite lucky in our city to have some sincere developers. One or two of them actually enjoys this site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Still am proud that they built the original stadium for $2M under the $25M budget and built on time with great quality. Sort of proves Medwards mantra is wrong, "low price, fast built or quality; pick two".

    Back then we got all three and laughed at Montreal when their stadium got ZERO out of three. In fact, at the time, the Montreal 'The Big Owe' was such a financial scandal, the COE was going to drop their bid for the 1978 games.
    Agree whole heartedly about the stadium's bang for the buck. Despite its age it's still the nicest high capacity football stadium in the country. I still remember the pride that I felt when I attended a track & field event during the Commonwealth Games. Combine that with the fact that it's attached to a superb community rec facility and there really is nothing else in this country that can compare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Despite its age it's still the nicest high capacity football stadium in the country.
    LOL... Nope, sorry, it's not even close. It may be second but BC Place beats it in almost every category: food/beverage options, location, surrounding amenities, comfortability (IT HAS A ROOF!). It not only hosts Canadian and Association Football, it hosts the Boat Show, the Home and Garden Show, an EDM Festival, the Sun Run, and an indoor winter carnival every year, and that doesn't even include all the concerts. It can reduce the capacity from 54,000 to 27,000 for smaller events so it doesn't feel like you're in an enormous cavern. I could go on...

  95. #195

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    You obviously lacked slight reading comprehension. He mentioned football experience, and I agree with him on that notion. Nothing beats a warm sunny day and a beer with a game. CS offers a better atmosphere than BCP by a mile. Nothing personal, but Toronto beats BC if you're to qualify by your measure. Naturally, the younger a stadium is, it would have more current advantages.
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  96. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by realkevbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Despite its age it's still the nicest high capacity football stadium in the country.
    LOL... Nope, sorry, it's not even close. It may be second but BC Place beats it in almost every category: food/beverage options, location, surrounding amenities, comfortability (IT HAS A ROOF!). It not only hosts Canadian and Association Football, it hosts the Boat Show, the Home and Garden Show, an EDM Festival, the Sun Run, and an indoor winter carnival every year, and that doesn't even include all the concerts. It can reduce the capacity from 54,000 to 27,000 for smaller events so it doesn't feel like you're in an enormous cavern. I could go on...
    Youíre kidding right? BC place is beautiful but the atmosphere here is absolutely lacking. Itís one of the worst football experiences Iíve ever had. Vacant, mammoth, enclosed...

  97. #197
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    He never actually mentioned "football experience", his quote is "nicest high capacity football stadium", so I take that to mean the stadium in general and all it's potential uses. The problem with CS is that the "warm sunny day" is few and far between, so it's definitely fantastic when it happens, nothing better, but you have to make through the rainy, cold, snowy, and windy days as well. BCP has the advantage of being closed for the crummy days and open when it's nice out.

    I've only been to a couple CFL games here (when the Esks are here and I can get free tickets) and I totally agree that the atmosphere is abysmal. I do however have Whitecaps season tickets and the atmosphere there far exceeds anything I've ever seen at CS. It's the people that bring the atmosphere, the building is just there to facilitate it.

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    ^My personal bias is against covered football stadiums so that is why I discount BC Place. I concede that BC Place has better amenities as it should given that it's a newer facility. I like the sight lines of Commonwealth Stadium for football especially for a large stadium. Some of the other stadiums such as Ottawa and Toronto's BMO field are more intimate but of course they are smaller but probably more appropriate given today's attendance numbers. I suppose CS from a football point of view is an anachronism nowadays.

    I don't attend as many Eskies games as I used to but some of my best memories are sitting in the bitter cold during the playoffs of their 5 yr Grey Cup runs. I'm of the opinion that inclement weather is a part of football.
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    Quote Originally Posted by realkevbo View Post
    He never actually mentioned "football experience", his quote is "nicest high capacity football stadium", so I take that to mean the stadium in general and all it's potential uses. The problem with CS is that the "warm sunny day" is few and far between, so it's definitely fantastic when it happens, nothing better, but you have to make through the rainy, cold, snowy, and windy days as well. BCP has the advantage of being closed for the crummy days and open when it's nice out.

    I've only been to a couple CFL games here (when the Esks are here and I can get free tickets) and I totally agree that the atmosphere is abysmal. I do however have Whitecaps season tickets and the atmosphere there far exceeds anything I've ever seen at CS. It's the people that bring the atmosphere, the building is just there to facilitate it.
    Not word for word...correct , but what do you suppose "highest football capacity" is refering to? Getting " high" at a foot ball game. Well, now that maryjane is legal, that might be the case going forward...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  100. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by realkevbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    Despite its age it's still the nicest high capacity football stadium in the country.
    LOL... Nope, sorry, it's not even close. It may be second but BC Place beats it in almost every category: food/beverage options, location, surrounding amenities, comfortability (IT HAS A ROOF!). It not only hosts Canadian and Association Football, it hosts the Boat Show, the Home and Garden Show, an EDM Festival, the Sun Run, and an indoor winter carnival every year, and that doesn't even include all the concerts. It can reduce the capacity from 54,000 to 27,000 for smaller events so it doesn't feel like you're in an enormous cavern. I could go on...
    You gotta be kidding with this. you could fire a cannon in cavernous BC Place and not hit anyone during an event. Before the enormously expensive retrofit it was also one of the ugliest things in the lower mainland.

    If we're being honest here the facility has had at least a couple different roofs and at enormous cost.

    Despite that, Commonwealth gets better attendance at almost any comparable sporting or concert event.

    Any experience I've had at BC Place is a big meh.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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