24 Sussex

[kkozoriz]

The renovations to Parliament are costing $3 Billion. Think of what we could build if we knocked it down and built a modern glass tower complex. We could certain;y do it for less than $3 billion, especially if they gave up the pricy riverfront location and located in a light industrial complex someplace, similar to what Esso is doing in Calgary. I bet the whole thing could come in under a billion. There, just saved 2 billion dollars without breaking a sweat.

[Frank Wilson]

I don't see the problem with security because no one will be living there and the security measures could be inserted off camera. It would be an interesting program.

On second thought, indeed it could make for decent watching albeit a huge project for Mike and the producers many years; however, one of the side benefits would be broad engagement for viewership, more interest in our parliamentary system is a plus. And if Mike does a great job (under-budget and ahead of schedule) maybe The Order of Canada.

[Frank Wilson]

The renovations to Parliament are costing $3 Billion. Think of what we could build if we knocked it down and built a modern glass tower complex. We could certain;y do it for less than $3 billion, especially if they gave up the pricy riverfront location and located in a light industrial complex someplace, similar to what Esso is doing in Calgary. I bet the whole thing could come in under a billion. There, just saved 2 billion dollars without breaking a sweat.

Move it all out to Orléans Industrial Park, under a billion for sure with left over bread for a new Peace Tower too.

[Gemini]

The renovations to Parliament are costing $3 Billion. Think of what we could build if we knocked it down and built a modern glass tower complex. We could certain;y do it for less than $3 billion, especially if they gave up the pricy riverfront location and located in a light industrial complex someplace, similar to what Esso is doing in Calgary. I bet the whole thing could come in under a billion. There, just saved 2 billion dollars without breaking a sweat.

Why not demolish the Parliament building and get the politicians to work from home and save all their correspondence etc on a huge data base. When they want to pass bills etc. let them do it through Skype. When they feel in need of a photo-op they could call the press then wave out of their front door.
Yeah, another bland glass tower shaped like an upended cigarette box is all they need in the capital. It will blend in nicely with the other non-descript glass boxes there.

[kkozoriz]

The renovations to Parliament are costing $3 Billion. Think of what we could build if we knocked it down and built a modern glass tower complex. We could certain;y do it for less than $3 billion, especially if they gave up the pricy riverfront location and located in a light industrial complex someplace, similar to what Esso is doing in Calgary. I bet the whole thing could come in under a billion. There, just saved 2 billion dollars without breaking a sweat.

Move it all out to Orléans Industrial Park, under a billion for sure with left over bread for a new Peace Tower too.

Forget the Peace Tower. We're trying to do this on the cheap don't ya know?

Plain box with a chain link fence topped with razor wire would take care of most of the security problems too. Can cut back even more on the RCMP.

This is Canada, darn it! Let's show the world just how cheap government can be.

[Komrade]

The idea of taking 24 Sussex and turning it into a sustainable eco-friendly home has a degree of merit also. That would be cool to see.

[Dave]

Done or not, it apparently was still leaky when Paul Martin was there:

When the wife of former Canadian leader Paul Martin opened the doors to the official prime ministerial residence for a hospice fundraiser 10 years ago, one volunteer couldn’t believe what she saw: buckets on the floor of the living room, filling with rain leaking through the roof. Window sills were lined with towels to soak up moisture, and plastic covered the windows to keep out a draft. All of this, Mrs. Martin explained to hospice volunteer Lillian Smith, was just another routine day.

The entire roof was replaced in 1998. Theres no way it should be leaking 10yrs ago and if it is somebody should be calling in some warrantee work.

But I agree with Maureen McTeer on this. 24Sussex isn't much, its of no particular architectural significance and is quite an unimpressive facility. I doubt its even worth 10M aside from land value.

It sounds like the moisture problem may be more due to the windows than the roof, but the place seems to have a lot of expensive problems to fix.

I lean towards preserving historic buildings and I think historic significance goes beyond the age and the architectural style of the building. I don't think personal taste really much matters as I am not going to live there and neither are you unless you plan to run for PM or are married to them. I suppose Ms. McTeer is entitled to her opinion as she actually did live there.

However, the repair cost cited does seem high. The long list of repairs makes me wonder about what is essential, what is a good idea and what is nice to have (ex. if off site caterers or kitchens can be used for functions, the kitchen needs may not actually be that great). It seems to be a fairly long wish list and bureaucrats seem to be good with coming up with lists like that.

It seems like repairing and replace windows is essential to prevent moisture and deterioration and improve comfort. Better insulation would help too and there could be a big energy cost saving (not sure if this is factored into offset against the quoted cost), but requiring asbestos removal might be costly so it may or may not turn out to be better to skip this. I wonder if they can come up with some sort of 5 year or 10 year plan so the cost gets spread out over time, perhaps the house gets renovated in sections with a bit done each summer when the Prime Minister can go to the summer cottage. It doesn't need to be a palace, but it should be comfortable to live in and be presentable.

[Dave]

I guess this discussion thread illustrates all the worst things about politics. If you make the needed and expensive repairs to the place you get accused of building a "palace", so no one has had the courage to fix it for 40 years, the problems get worse, the bill bigger and it all gets left for the next person to deal with.

I suppose some people will not be happy until the roof caves in. I suspect at that time those same critics will be the first to criticize and say something should have been done sooner.

I also find it a bit ironic that we are having a discussion about expensive repairs to a historic building on an Edmonton forum. Isn't our favorite civic past time tearing down (or more recently burning down) historic buildings? Then we wonder why people who visit our city criticize it for having no character.

In my opinion cheap always shows. The world leaders who visit are likely too polite to say anything about that air conditioner hanging out the window, but I am sure it does not improve their impression of our country.

Good post Dave but have you been in Ottawa? Theres no shortage of historic buildings there and its more the norm. This particular building doesn't stand out in any way in its environs and in fact was a private dwelling initially.
You are correct. If this same building was in Edmonton I would be arguing in its defense. This is not a disconnection or a double standard in that Edmonton lacks historical artifice and Ottawa doesn't.

In short what makes the argument for preservation in Edmonton is that Edmonton lack in historical architecture so it is imo valued. Its partly the shortage that results in that value.

Anyway consensus is spend the money and do the repairs and myslef I accept that consensus and the opinions and arguments expressed.

That said whether world leaders visit 24sussex often is a disputed point. Several sources say the residence is just a residence and rarely holds functions or high level meetings with foreign dignitaries.

You are correct, I have been to Ottawa and there are a lot more historic buildings in Ottawa, than in Edmonton. It is a very picturesque city and is one of Canada's gems (up there I think with Victoria, St. John's and Quebec City).

However, the purpose of me bringing up Edmonton in this discussion is because this is an Edmonton forum and I don't think historic buildings are really valued here. There is a tear it down rather than preserve it mentality that is very strong here. Ironically, I think historic buildings are probably more appreciated and valued in Ottawa, even though there are a more of them in Ottawa.

One big problem with tearing it down is once it is gone, it is gone. If we (or our children) come to regret the decision in 20 years, it can't be undone. If anything, I just hope people are not so quick to say "tear it down" just because the cost of fixing it up seems too high. I think we may come to regret that type of reflexive and perhaps short term thinking.

[KC]

I'd like to save all old buildings. However, this one doesn't exactly meet the needs of the role it has now. I also believe in repurposing and giving old buildings lots of time (maybe decades) to find repurposing uses. I'd say maybe another lot could be acquired and used as the PM residence if this house is so valuable, but if not, and there's no room for a new house, then take this one down, use as much of the stone as possible and build something that won't be a continual and costly problem. Or pay up, but the interior while saving the facade and any interior features that are worth retaining and build a properly designed house behind it.


Interesting about the wiring type and design:

Ancient wiring at 24 Sussex Drive put Harper and family at risk, report says

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...799/story.html

[moahunter]

^I think should just sell it and let someone else who wants the prestige of owning a former PM's place, pay for all the repairs. Don't do it on taxpayer dime, buy something else for the PM's family that doesn't require costly renovation. Use the money saved from the sale and purchase of something cheaper, to provide some affordable accommodation for some people who need it.

[moahunter]

Insane, of will cost 38 million to repair 24 Sussex. Seriously? You can knock it down and build a fantastic home for a fraction of that. Or as this article notes, you could buy four replica White Houses:

https://news.nationalpost.com/news/f...sussex-can-buy

$2,200 per square foot...

[Gemini]

Maybe they are going to re-name it 24 Trump and decorate it in gold fixtures, drapes with gold thread woven through them, gold everywhere. Trump Tower North.
Yes, that is an insane amount of money. Maybe build a brand new annex as the residential part and just renovate the old 24 Sussex to be used as a museum.

[Dave]

Insane, of will cost 38 million to repair 24 Sussex. Seriously? You can knock it down and build a fantastic home for a fraction of that. Or as this article notes, you could buy four replica White Houses:

https://news.nationalpost.com/news/f...sussex-can-buy

$2,200 per square foot...

I suppose we should at least be thankful we are not paying the $460 million to renovate and upgrade Buckingham Palace. I saw that in the news a few days ago too. By the way, the Truman repairs to the White House in 1952 were $5.2 million, so if that were in today's dollars it would probably be 9 times that or $46.8 million. Fixing up these old places seems to be quite expensive.

It sounds like there are a variety of proposals for 24 Sussex being discussed and my sense was the $38 million one went beyond repair and renovation of earlier proposals and involved considerably expanded living and meeting space. It might make the place much more functional, but I am not sure it is the right option. I think it is more likely they will go with the earlier less expensive proposals which were mostly repair and upgrades to the existing space.

[H.L.]

Sophie was involved, need we say more?

[Marcel Petrin]

Sophie was involved, need we say more?

Citation needed.

[Dialog]

Drive-by misogyny never needs a citation.

[moahunter]

Drive-by misogyny never needs a citation.

Its reasonable to infer though, given how many nannies she needs for her kids, on taxpayer dime, unlike the previous spouse of PM.

[Marcel Petrin]

It's "reasonable to infer" that Sophie Gregoire has infiltrated the National Capital Commission and dictated to an arm's length Crown Corporation what to do with the building?

Right.

[H.L.]

Drive-by misogyny never needs a citation.

Its reasonable to infer though, given how many nannies she needs for her kids, on taxpayer dime, unlike the previous spouse of PM.

I'll infer what I want, he's a twit and she is a bigger twit.

[Gemini]

I'd like to see 24 Sussex renovated but that is an expensive renovation. They could probably build a replica for half the price. 24(B) Sussex Drive. I can't see any sitting P M or his/her spouse having much of a say on how it's renovated. It will more than likely have to be kept true to it's original look except for all the electrical/plumbing elements. Some construction company sees a government construction contract and the dollar signs start spinning.

[KC]

I'd like to see 24 Sussex renovated but that is an expensive renovation. They could probably build a replica for half the price. 24(B) Sussex Drive. I can't see any sitting P M or his/her spouse having much of a say on how it's renovated. It will more than likely have to be kept true to it's original look except for all the electrical/plumbing elements. Some construction company sees a government construction contract and the dollar signs start spinning.

It started off as just some guy's house and the government bought it. It might have some history to it now, but that will all be gutted in any renovation. I figure they should just tear it down and start fresh, designing and building something tailored to the role. Reuse the stone where they can.

[Gemini]

I guess the Trudeaus are residing at Rideau Cottage until the powers that be decide how they are going to proceed with 24 Sussex Drive.
I don't know how much land is left on the Ottawa River to build a new P M residence or if they pull the old house down and build in the same spot. I should imagine the land along the river comes at a premier price and as they say, location is everything. It seems that some of 24 Sussex Drives residence have been able to request changes. Trudeau Snr had a indoor pool built & Joe Clark had gold leaf put on some ceilings (Clark could be a Trump supporter) and some other dude had the deck closed in. I very much doubt National Capitol Commission would let Trudeau Jnr incorporate his vision for 24 Sussex as such is his green initiatives he would probably want an open fire pit in the middle of the main hall to keep the place warm and to cook on.