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Thread: Jasper 108 street - two towers

  1. #401
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    It should be stated (regarding the comments above of a potential condo glut) that multiple developments amongst one another actually make each other more attractive to buyers. One tower in the dust bowl, something like Jasper House, could be considered a risky and speculative purchase if you compare it to a redeveloping area with things like park amenities and the cumulative retail/office space of a community that is now, developing as a whole.

    Also, considering the number of people moving to the city coupled with its population growth, it’s not unreasonable to believe that a small percentage of those tens of thousands of people will want to live central.

    I don’t know about you, but even as a property owner, I prefer downward pressures on this market. I’d rather my kids not experience extraordinary housing costs or a supply shortage of units.

  2. #402

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
    Jasper and 108st towers.


    The 2 comments at the beginning of the story are classic lol.


    Why do you oppose these towers....


    Answer...There are a lot of condo towers around in Edmonton.


    Answer...Everywhere you see high rise buildings....they take away the view.


    https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1611443
    So they can't say what they want, because you disagree, typical lefty who won't allow differing thoughts..
    The want to quiet discenting voices and a refusal to explore all sides of an issue go beyond the left. It includes the right as well....

    But thanks for trying. Best run along back to the rebel.

  3. #403
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    'Also, considering the number of people moving to the city coupled with its population growth, it’s not unreasonable to believe that a small percentage of those tens of thousands of people will want to live central.'

    A growing number of those and certainly the expanding 18-35 group generally want to be more centrally located.
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  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
    Jasper and 108st towers.


    The 2 comments at the beginning of the story are classic lol.


    Why do you oppose these towers....


    Answer...There are a lot of condo towers around in Edmonton.


    Answer...Everywhere you see high rise buildings....they take away the view.


    https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1611443
    So they can't say what they want, because you disagree, typical lefty who won't allow differing thoughts..
    The want to quiet discenting voices and a refusal to explore all sides of an issue go beyond the left. It includes the right as well....

    But thanks for trying. Best run along back to the rebel.
    The rebel what? You know more about it obviously, I thought it was shut down. Anyway lefty, hope you don't have a condo for sale..lol

  5. #405
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    At minimum, I can see rentals doing well if they create some student-friendly places. Blocks from MacEwan and two LRT stops from the U of A. The Mayfair seems to rent to a lot of (wealthier) international students, and I could see this development capturing some of them as well.
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  6. #406

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    'Also, considering the number of people moving to the city coupled with its population growth, it’s not unreasonable to believe that a small percentage of those tens of thousands of people will want to live central.'

    A growing number of those and certainly the expanding 18-35 group generally want to be more centrally located.
    I think many of the current projects under development or proposed downtown are fairly well located, close to transit and or LRT, which I think will help their appeal. I think as the city continues to grow, it will continue to become more attractive to live downtown or centrally for those work or spend significant time downtown, as travel times from outlying areas increases due to distance and congestion.

  7. #407
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    I can tell you without reservation that we are significantly under built from a residential perspective.
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  8. #408
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    https://edmontonjournal.com/life/hom...crowded-market

    Moving condos isn't easy, in fact it's harder now, than this report in sept 2018.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    I can tell you without reservation that we are significantly under built from a residential perspective.


    And a good portion of the downtown residential stock is ancient garbage.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    Moving condos isn't easy, in fact it's harder now, than this report in sept 2018.


    Good thing this development is 70% institutional rental, then. Take your act to another thread, please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    I can tell you without reservation that we are significantly under built from a residential perspective.


    And a good portion of the downtown residential stock is ancient garbage.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    Moving condos isn't easy, in fact it's harder now, than this report in sept 2018.


    Good thing this development is 70% institutional rental, then. Take your act to another forum outside of C2E, please.
    FTFY
    FU x 2

  11. #411
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    Edmonton is going to reach ~ 2 million population by the time these developments are ready. We're growing by 30,000/year and have received steady growth in population over the last 7 years. #more towers please.
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  12. #412

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    Walked by this site on my way home today and both the Money Mart and Queen Donair appear to be permanently closed now.

  13. #413
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    Wonder what's going on with the El Mirador?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandonite View Post
    Walked by this site on my way home today and both the Money Mart and Queen Donair appear to be permanently closed now.
    Was that due to the fire that happened earlier this week?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Really excited about this one... If it looks like the renders its gonna light up that area so much.

  16. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandonite View Post
    Walked by this site on my way home today and both the Money Mart and Queen Donair appear to be permanently closed now.
    Was that due to the fire that happened earlier this week?
    I would say great guess with the obvious. Why spend money to renovate so it can be deconstructed shortly?

    ^
    I think the render will be underwhelming compare to to eventual final product TBH. Im also excited with this as it is very cosmo just like Healy; both of these projects have the "major city" look and appeal. They will definitely transform us into that realm.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 15-02-2019 at 08:37 PM.
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  17. #417
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    Are you suggesting arson to speed up the process? Kind of like the Arlington?

    Got to stop listening to Coast to Coast.
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  18. #418

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    I suggested nothing. A fire has just occurred there; a permit is requested for redevelopment. If you were the proprietors of the establishments affected, would you spend time and money in rebuilding in a spot that will be torn down shortly then have to rebuild with money and non-profit gestation again? You couldn't see that problem rIght off the bat?
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  19. #419
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    I offered hyperbole. You didn't read the other sentence of my post?
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    The world seems to want to get things moving on the redevelopment of the east sides of Jasper and 108th. Fire on the northside and flood on the south!
    Twenty one, thirty one, and seven twenty-seven.

  21. #421
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    Reminder - 108st/Jasper open house tonight from 4-6pm at the First Presbyterian on 105/south of Jasper.
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    Did anyone go? I would have attended if I didn't have to work late.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  23. #423
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    Was climbing a volcano, I’d be curious to hear what anyone had to say from the meeting.

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Did anyone go? I would have attended if I didn't have to work late.
    Mix of opinions, but many were impressed, others lamenting the loss of ELM/PA.
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  26. #426

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    Good attendance according to CoE folks, lots of consultants but also mix of community members and business people.

    Some new street level renderings:


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xgj43dlxw...%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ft2elo6vck...%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1r12672t0...%20PM.jpg?dl=0

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/twzglem9fw...%20PM.jpg?dl=0
    www.decl.org

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    Has the inevitable "Save the El Mirador!!!!" petition been started on change.org yet?
    Twenty one, thirty one, and seven twenty-seven.

  28. #428

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    FYI, Jasper tower is rental, 108 Street tower is condos (at this point).
    www.decl.org

  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    FYI, Jasper tower is rental, 108 Street tower is condos (at this point).
    Thanks for the photos. Question though, what is up with 108th rendered as the vehicular traffic road and 107th as the pedestrian friendly cobblestone street?
    Twenty one, thirty one, and seven twenty-seven.

  30. #430

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickv View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    FYI, Jasper tower is rental, 108 Street tower is condos (at this point).
    Thanks for the photos. Question though, what is up with 108th rendered as the vehicular traffic road and 107th as the pedestrian friendly cobblestone street?
    Long term future of 107 Street is up discuss since the Warehouse Park will span both sides. From that rendering, they imagine something that could be integrated into the park but still open to vehicle traffic at times. There's a bunch of possible different solutions.

    108 Street was recently upgraded and will stay as is for at least the next 30 years.
    www.decl.org

  31. #431

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    Hopefully they sort out the large waterline along 108 St. that's failed twice and done serious flood damage, most recently closing the Denny's indefinitely.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  32. #432

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    ^Didn't realize Denny's was closed. Water main breaks all over the City though.
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  33. #433
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    There's been a pretty large number of them blowing in and around 102 avenue in the CBD, though. I don't know how old the lines are etc, but the frequency does seem to be pretty high over the last few years. Phillips Lofts lost water for 2-3 days a few years ago, and a full day last year I believe. That's a huge problem for the building as it's got an idiotic combined domestic water/heating system. No water, no heat. Epcor didn't much seem to care during the 3 day outage, refusing a request to truck in water and re-pressurize the building so the heating system could circulate.

  34. #434

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    The earlier break, in July I think, shut down a bunch of AB Gov offices (like Education and Forestry) and forced people to work from home for weeks. Can't blame that on the cold.
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    My wife chuckeled with venom when she heard of Deney's flood. She wasn't very impressed with her breakfast when she tried it a month ago. She said something "F--- you Denny's," when a follow up story aired on CTV news last night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The earlier break, in July I think, shut down a bunch of AB Gov offices (like Education and Forestry) and forced people to work from home for weeks. Can't blame that on the cold.
    I was thinking the same thing when I heard about the water main break on 104th ave. Yes, watermains break everywhere, but two massive breaks within four blocks of each other in six months is a bit concerning.

    The Forestry building is closed due to a fire unrelated to the watermain break that occurred right around the same time, though.
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  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    My wife chuckled with venom when she heard of Deney's flood. She wasn't very impressed with her breakfast when she tried it a month ago. She said something "F--- you Denny's," when a follow up story aired on CTV news last night.

    Really? if she had a [email protected] meal, why not let them know? I wouldnt wish a flood on anyone, it's destructive and costly

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    My wife chuckeled with venom when she heard of Deney's flood. She wasn't very impressed with her breakfast when she tried it a month ago. She said something "F--- you Denny's," when a follow up story aired on CTV news last night.
    It's F---ing Denny's. You don't go there to be "impressed". Try a nice local place like Cafe Linnea, the Sugarbowl or Canteen instead!

  39. #439
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    Agreed.

    I like the previous renders to the ones fetured on this page, they apear more vibrant then the recent ones. The previous renders felt more open to me for some reason.
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  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The earlier break, in July I think, shut down a bunch of AB Gov offices (like Education and Forestry) and forced people to work from home for weeks. Can't blame that on the cold.
    BLVD is still closed due to flood damage.
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  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Agreed.

    I like the previous renders to the ones fetured on this page, they apear more vibrant then the recent ones. The previous renders felt more open to me for some reason.
    They're all from the same package and there is no difference in design between them.

  42. #442
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    ^ Same renders. Some of them look different to me. For example: Second from the last in this set by DTron'

    Quote Originally Posted by DTrobotnik View Post
    from the pdf


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  43. #443
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    Just the way "the light hits" them most likely. Still cool proposal.
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  44. #444
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  45. #445

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    Yeah, still a bunch of parking lots downtown but instead they want to knock down El Mirador for these towers. It should have had historical designation... don't know why it hasn't got it.
    Last edited by K364; 25-03-2019 at 06:43 PM.

  46. #446

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    I think the El Mirador would be demolished in one shape or form in 2 decades even with a designation. It has the unfortunate location of being right Downtown almost in the CBD with low density and height and low rents on good real estate.
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  47. #447

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    And within 2 decades it would either fall or burn down.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  48. #448
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    The building with El Mirador above the door (as shown in the photo accompanying the Journal article) is the most architecturally significant and striking as seen from 108 Street. The rest of the buildings in the complex (including the one with the red brick roof that created the inner courtyard) don't seem to be anything special.

    This is what I'm referring to seen from above: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5413.../data=!3m1!1e3

    This is a large development site. There should be a way of retaining the most architecturally significant building which is on the northwest corner of the site, while building the two towers and podiums on the rest of site. Properly refurbished and brought up to code, I could see the apartments in the remaining Spanish Colonial style building commanding a pretty penny.

  49. #449

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    Perhaps the front facade of the buildings could be saved- if possible - and rretrofit it on your the back of the tower if we're that nostalgic over it?
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  50. #450

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    I've lived at El Mirador for fourteen years now, and any maintenance has been kept to an absolute minimum the entire time. Plumbing, heating, wiring, is all shot. Tenants have had their bathroom ceilings partly fall in because of leaks, and the only repairs where to nail a piece of plywood to the ceiling. They couldn't care less. I believe it's called "demolition through neglect". It's such a shame. I love living here. The journal article can't come close to explaining how fantastic it is to hang out almost every nice day with the best neighbors I have ever lived with. I'll miss the BBQs and parties in the courtyard, no need to go out on weekends, the people and the party are right here. I've made some very good friends, I'm just ****** with the management of this building for allowing it to get this bad. I'll keep in touch with the people I've met here, but I know we have to move on now. Really sucks.

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    And who is paying for that trip down memory lane? It would be a flow through cost to residents that everyone will incur that buys or rents there - not good. It would be easier to simply ackweldge the Mirador by a plaque, pictures or a feature exterior landscape wall.

  52. #452

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    If it has historical designation, one could seek some form of grant?

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    If it has historical designation, one could seek some form of grant?
    It has no designations.

  54. #454

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Perhaps the front facade of the buildings could be saved- if possible - and rretrofit it on your the back of the tower if we're that nostalgic over it?
    It is a neat and such a distinctive building, of course the problem is the location no longer justifies something that size. I also hope the developers will consider incorporating the facade and perhaps other elements of it into their project. Overall, I like what they are proposing and that corner badly needs a development like this. If they could incorporate it, their development would be perfect.

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    I think they will give a nod to the Mirador. But that does not mean using any materials from the site. They might simply borrow some design elements or perhaps even name one of the towers or courtyard after it - with some artifacts or such. I am not being cold about it - I have been to many party's there, tarot card and palm readers lol and several wild nights of bliss - seems a life time ago now.

  56. #456

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    And who is paying for that trip down memory lane? It would be a flow through cost to residents that everyone will incur that buys or rents there - not good. It would be easier to simply ackweldge the Mirador by a plaque, pictures or a feature exterior landscape wall.
    This. Plus name 1 or both towers after the Mirador

  57. #457

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    Is the El Mirador the only apartment in town built around a courtyard? It's common in California and Arizona. That's probably its best feature.
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    ^ The Jefferson lofts (10331 106th street) has a courtyard.
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    A lot of the leaky Tesco projects had internal courtyards as well, as they had no interior hallways. Just the exterior walkways.

  60. #460

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    Now you've reminded me - the Galleria south of Jasper Ave on 113 St (?) has one though I think (been a looong time since I was there) it's covered.
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    Even Edgewater has courtyards
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  62. #462

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grandonite View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    And who is paying for that trip down memory lane? It would be a flow through cost to residents that everyone will incur that buys or rents there - not good. It would be easier to simply ackweldge the Mirador by a plaque, pictures or a feature exterior landscape wall.
    This. Plus name 1 or both towers after the Mirador

    You realize all I suggested was stripping down the front facade and reattach it back to the back of the podium right? It will cost regardless for deconstruction either way. That is entirely their choice if they so chose to do...
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  63. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandonite View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    And who is paying for that trip down memory lane? It would be a flow through cost to residents that everyone will incur that buys or rents there - not good. It would be easier to simply ackweldge the Mirador by a plaque, pictures or a feature exterior landscape wall.
    This. Plus name 1 or both towers after the Mirador

    You realize all I suggested was stripping down the front facade and reattach it back to the back of the podium right? It will cost regardless for deconstruction either way. That is entirely their choice if they so chose to do...
    "That is entirely their choice if they so chose to do..." really??

  64. #464

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    How else will it be so please do explain?
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    If they want to they will. If they don't they won't. What is there to explain ... the obvious should require no explanation unless you have gone down a rabbit hole.

  66. #466

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    The fact that you had to respond to that would suggest you had some thought...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    The fact that you had to respond to that would suggest you had some thought...
    My ideas are posted below. That said I expect nothing and won't be disappointed with nothing.

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    Edmonton landmark on Jasper Avenue faces modern revamp
    Warren Frey April 3, 2019

    An Edmonton landmark and the surrounding block is about to be transformed.

    Jasper Avenue and 108 Street has been the site of both long-established local businesses and a unique to Edmonton Spanish Colonial inspired apartment complex. A proposed development will revamp the block with a mixed-use complex consisting of two residential towers and a medium-rise “link” building connecting the two structures.

    Currently the El Mirador apartment complex along with a low-rise commercial building occupy the lot. The El Mirador sticks out in Edmonton’s downtown core with a Spanish Colonial design and an open-air courtyard within the building flanked by two storeys of residences. Designed by architect Ralph Henry Trouth and built in 1935, the complex sprang from an earlier house built in 1912 that is still visible via the north facade. Another building to the south called the Patricia Annex was built in 1953.

    https://canada.constructconnect.com/...-modern-revamp
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  69. #469

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    So being torn down is now "transformative". Interesting.

  70. #470

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    So being torn down is now "transformative". Interesting.
    Yes. Because what's replacing it is not found anywhere in Edmonton. Jeez...

  71. #471
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    I am OK losing the El Mirador. In the grand scheme, it really has no presence. If it were a much larger complex, maybe.

  72. #472

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    ^me too. if they had been properly maintained then it would be more of an issue.

  73. #473
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    There's nothing wrong with El Mirador, but nothing right with it either. It's not a landmark, just a cool place that folks-in-the-know found out and, bless em, enjoyed..

    Lots of buildings worth saving - just not that one, oh, and along with the payday-loan shark place.
    ... gobsmacked

  74. #474

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    There's nothing wrong with El Mirador, but nothing right with it either. It's not a landmark, just a cool place that folks-in-the-know found out and, bless em, enjoyed..

    Lots of buildings worth saving - just not that one, oh, and along with the payday-loan shark place.
    I like it and it is unique, but not historic. However, I hope part of it can be preserved or recreated and somehow incorporated into the new development. I don't think keeping it should stop the redevelopment of a large part of a block that sorely needs something better.

  75. #475

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    There's nothing wrong with El Mirador, but nothing right with it either. It's not a landmark, just a cool place that folks-in-the-know found out and, bless em, enjoyed..

    Lots of buildings worth saving - just not that one, oh, and along with the payday-loan shark place.
    I like it and it is unique, but not historic. However, I hope part of it can be preserved or recreated and somehow incorporated into the new development. I don't think keeping it should stop the redevelopment of a large part of a block that sorely needs something better.
    Amen. The style is interesting but overall the Mirador, and more so the general area, is a dump. Time to move forward.

  76. #476
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    They should look pretty decent at that location.

  78. #478

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    It will be more than decent lol... what we have now on Jasper front, currently, I dont mind, but this... like yesterday already.
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  79. #479
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    Well my favorite part of if this project proceeds is that it will help fill the gap on Jasper Ave.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    ^ Most defiantly. Not sure if I like the LRT entrance (if I read that right) inside the lobby of the building. The other eyesore on Jasper Ave is the Healy Ford lands (Boston Pizza) that whole block is crying out for similar treatment. Going forward, is there any movement (development proposal) on that property?
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    Hmm

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    ^^I'd even be ok for now with not touching the BP's and filling the empty lot next to it, or is that where the big park is supposed to go?

  83. #483

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    Behind there, to the North

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    I thought the park was behind Audrey's books. So the park is supposed to go where the Brad Lamb Jasper House was supposed to go?
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  85. #485

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    Both. From 106 street to 107 street and a bit behind Audrey's as well.


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    ...and potentially more.
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  87. #487

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    Would definitely help on the Jasper front:


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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I thought the park was behind Audrey's books. So the park is supposed to go where the Brad Lamb Jasper House was supposed to go?
    Park as originally envisioned (I don't think it's changed) didn't include the Lamb property (lots 185-187 in post 485) - it was beside it and behind it across the alley.

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    @KKozoriz
    So is property 1-4 will that be designated as park?

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I thought the park was behind Audrey's books. So the park is supposed to go where the Brad Lamb Jasper House was supposed to go?
    Park as originally envisioned (I don't think it's changed) didn't include the Lamb property (lots 185-187 in post 485) - it was beside it and behind it across the alley.
    That's what I thought as well. Other then that behind BP's land is jus screaming for development.
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  91. #491

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ...and potentially more.
    Of course. The whole downtown.

  92. #492

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    The image is from the city detailing properties for expropriation.

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    I don't see the land West of BP's on Jasper as park space. That land seems (due to location) like prime real estate. Suitable for part 2 of this project.
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  94. #494

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    The adjacent property to BP on the west and Lamb's former project are exemptions. Now, picture all what is up already with two slots I mentioned, and everything else is parkland on that block.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  95. #495

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Would definitely help on the Jasper front:

    Jesus, that looks like shyte !!

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    Everyone is a critic nowadays. ��
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    I wonder if El Mirador's features could be incorporated into the new tower podium.
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    They did it with MacLaren but tbh it looks silly with just half of that building facade preserved and not the otherhalf getting simmilar treatment. So, yes why not El Mirador getting similar treatment like the MacLaren.
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    I really like the El/PA, but no thanks.
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  100. #500

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    I like this building as well for more of sentimental than architectural value. NOOO... lol! I would be OK if they would save a portion of the front side and refit that to the very back of the podium or replicate for a different twist to beautification and decoration. From my visualization of that, I think it would be cool but everyone has their taste...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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