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Thread: Enough of these 'I'm Offended, It's not Politically Correct' people already

  1. #901

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    Jimmy Kimmel’s Homophobic Attacks on Sean Hannity Expose a Liberal Blind Spot

    Comedians Jimmy Kimmel and Chelsea Handler resorted to homophobic jokes while targeting Trump-connected conservatives this week. It’s lazy and offensive.

    Story: https://www.thedailybeast.com/jimmy-...yahoo?ref=home

    The greatest skill the left has is telling everyone how morally-superior they are, while they hurl childish insults and call everyone names.

  2. #902

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Jimmy Kimmel’s Homophobic Attacks on Sean Hannity Expose a Liberal Blind Spot

    Comedians Jimmy Kimmel and Chelsea Handler resorted to homophobic jokes while targeting Trump-connected conservatives this week. It’s lazy and offensive.

    Story: https://www.thedailybeast.com/jimmy-...yahoo?ref=home

    The greatest skill the left has is telling everyone how morally-superior they are, while they hurl childish insults and call everyone names.
    Or, they are not really that “left” or “liberal”.


    The moral majority was a conservative creation. It’s disbanded.
    Today:
    The GOP’s Moral Bankruptcy | The American Conservative

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...al-bankruptcy/
    Last edited by KC; 08-04-2018 at 12:52 PM.

  3. #903
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    Kimmel is a frustrated middle aged fool.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  4. #904

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    ‘The Simpsons’ Responds to Criticism About Apu With a Dismissal


    At the end of 2017, Hank Azaria, the voice behind Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, a convenience-store owner on “The Simpsons” with a thick Indian accent, responded to a recent groundswell of criticism that the character was racist. It came to the forefront thanks to Hari Kondabolu, a comedian of South Asian descent, who made a documentary, “The Problem With Apu,” which debuted last fall.


    “I think the documentary made some really interesting points and gave us a lot of things to think about and we really are thinking about it,” Mr. Azaria told TMZ. He said he found the situation “upsetting.”

    On Sunday night, “The Simpsons,” a cultural staple and television’s longest-running sitcom, now in its 29th season, finally responded: with a dismissive nod that earned the show more criticism, especially from Mr. Kondabolu himself. The episode, titled “No Good Read Goes Unpunished,” featured a scene with Marge Simpson sitting in bed with her daughter Lisa, reading a book called “The Princess in the Garden,” and attempting to make it inoffensive for 2018.


    At one point, Lisa turns to directly address the TV audience and says, “Something that started decades ago and was applauded and inoffensive is now politically incorrect. What can you do?” The shot then pans to a framed picture of Apu at the bedside with the line, “Don’t have a cow!” inscribed on it.


    Marge responds: “Some things will be dealt with at a later date.”


    Followed by Lisa saying, “If at all.”


    The writers of the episode — one of whom was Matt Groening, the show’s creator — received immediate backlash. Some viewers found the response tone deaf, and criticized the choice of Lisa, often the show’s moral center, to voice it. (And not to mention: “Don’t have a cow!” could be interpreted as a jab at Apu’s Hinduism.)
    https://archive.fo/w3E3n

  5. #905

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Assimilation was a direct attack on first nations peoples and against all first nations peoples. It isn't made up, it was the invoked cultural genocide policy of Canada.

    That is true.

    It is also not a reason to ban, censor, or get upset at the word.
    That would be easy for you to say.

    This is the apparent difficulty with understanding in modern times and wherein such complex societal objectives as Truth and Reconciliation are required to illuminate, educate, inform on the atrocities that have occurred in this nation and providing a path for reform, acknowledging, understanding.

    Assimilation is STILL occurring. Child Scoop STILL occurring. But disproportionate scoops of First Nations and Metis children from homes are now called apprehensions. With the vast majority of those going to non culturally similar placements. Even when kinship care is available.

    I'm playing advocate, and I have no difficulty doing that, and clearly, even though I am not directly impacted by it, I try to put myself in others shoes and think about how they would be impacted. In this sense the term offends me and I can easily see how it would offend first nations that were directly targeted.
    I just found this thread and been reading through it a bit, and I realize your post is over a year old, but I just can't tell if you're being serious or not. Please tell me you're not serious.
    Last edited by Vincent; 02-05-2018 at 07:32 PM.

  6. #906

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    Munk Debates

    https://www.munkdebates.com/The-Deba...al-Correctness



    Conrad Black: The forces of America’s left were no match for Canadian intellect and English wit | National Post
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/conr...nd-english-wit

  7. #907

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Assimilation was a direct attack on first nations peoples and against all first nations peoples. It isn't made up, it was the invoked cultural genocide policy of Canada.

    That is true.

    It is also not a reason to ban, censor, or get upset at the word.
    That would be easy for you to say.

    This is the apparent difficulty with understanding in modern times and wherein such complex societal objectives as Truth and Reconciliation are required to illuminate, educate, inform on the atrocities that have occurred in this nation and providing a path for reform, acknowledging, understanding.

    Assimilation is STILL occurring. Child Scoop STILL occurring. But disproportionate scoops of First Nations and Metis children from homes are now called apprehensions. With the vast majority of those going to non culturally similar placements. Even when kinship care is available.

    I'm playing advocate, and I have no difficulty doing that, and clearly, even though I am not directly impacted by it, I try to put myself in others shoes and think about how they would be impacted. In this sense the term offends me and I can easily see how it would offend first nations that were directly targeted.
    I just found this thread and been reading through it a bit, and I realize your post is over a year old, but I just can't tell if you're being serious or not. Please tell me you're not serious.
    Completely serious. Why should the word Assimilate or " Asimil8, Resistance is Futile" be allowed on a licence plate as a personalized plate? The word has a very clear context and meaning with First Nations peoples and is clearly offensive to them and for ample reason. Perhaps reason not very well understood unless you happen to be First Nations.

    If I requested "I Heart Holocaust" as a personalized plate and claimed I was referring to some obscure TV show episode I would expect to be scorned and have my plate denied. As should be the case.


    It seems as if people can't comprehend the issues at hand unless comparisons are given.
    Last edited by Replacement; 25-05-2018 at 01:38 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  8. #908

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Assimilation was a direct attack on first nations peoples and against all first nations peoples. It isn't made up, it was the invoked cultural genocide policy of Canada.

    That is true.

    It is also not a reason to ban, censor, or get upset at the word.
    That would be easy for you to say.

    This is the apparent difficulty with understanding in modern times and wherein such complex societal objectives as Truth and Reconciliation are required to illuminate, educate, inform on the atrocities that have occurred in this nation and providing a path for reform, acknowledging, understanding.

    Assimilation is STILL occurring. Child Scoop STILL occurring. But disproportionate scoops of First Nations and Metis children from homes are now called apprehensions. With the vast majority of those going to non culturally similar placements. Even when kinship care is available.

    I'm playing advocate, and I have no difficulty doing that, and clearly, even though I am not directly impacted by it, I try to put myself in others shoes and think about how they would be impacted. In this sense the term offends me and I can easily see how it would offend first nations that were directly targeted.
    I just found this thread and been reading through it a bit, and I realize your post is over a year old, but I just can't tell if you're being serious or not. Please tell me you're not serious.
    Completely serious. Why should the word Assimilate or " Asimil8, Resistance is Futile" be allowed on a licence plate as a personalized plate? The word has a very clear context and meaning with First Nations peoples and is clearly offensive to them and for ample reason. Perhaps reason not very well understood unless you happen to be First Nations.

    If I requested "I Heart Holocaust" as a personalized plate and claimed I was referring to some obscure TV show episode I would expect to be scorned and have my plate denied. As should be the case.


    It seems as if people can't comprehend the issues at hand unless comparisons are given.

    Are you saying that if you are part of some very small obscure religious minority then freedom of religion and expression don’t apply if they offend a larger group?


    Christie Blatchford: Resistance is not futile when it comes to freedoms of expression | National Post

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chri...-of-expression



    Plus in this case the phrase was created as a dramatic threat that the freedom fighters fought against.

    A “Remember the Alamo” sort of thing.
    Last edited by KC; 25-05-2018 at 02:29 PM.

  9. #909

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    I'm not sure what Isn't clear about what I stated. I disagree with Blatchford on this one.

    I'll be real clear here. The word Assimilate equates to Cultural Genocide in First Nations context. At this time of Truth and Reconciliation things like this are now generally being more widely understood.

    I'll expand that a lot of what have been refused plates seems a bit silly. For instance Grabher which is an actual surname. But this one there is no reason whatsoever to have the plate and its been deemed offensive, Manitoba agrees, and I agree with that assessment.

    Also, and this needs to be clear, the actual Manitoba plate is Asmil8 That's the plate. The Borg Resistance is Futile is a plate border. That does not change the decision on the plate because it is not the personalized version requested. Nor should it be up to Manitoba to cater to this man and allow him that offensive plate and to excuse it through some weird subcontext addendum.

    Finally, the owner of the plate mentions that a few people found the plate humorous. I don't really get that but I never watch Star Trek and particularly not the countless spin off series. I wouldn't know what a Borg is. I thought it was a Tennis player.
    Last edited by Replacement; 25-05-2018 at 03:40 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  10. #910

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Completely serious. Why should the word Assimilate or " Asimil8, Resistance is Futile" be allowed on a licence plate as a personalized plate? The word has a very clear context and meaning with First Nations peoples and is clearly offensive to them and for ample reason. Perhaps reason not very well understood unless you happen to be First Nations.

    If I requested "I Heart Holocaust" as a personalized plate and claimed I was referring to some obscure TV show episode I would expect to be scorned and have my plate denied. As should be the case.
    First of all, that's a terrible comparison. One is clearly a Star Trek reference, the other a genocide reference.

    Secondly I firmly believe that people should be allowed to say whatever they want, as long as their words are not designed to encourage violence. Even "I heart Holocaust" should be allowed because last I heard it was not against the law to be offensive. It's also not against the law to be rude or ignorant, nor should it ever be. At a certain point people need to learn to handle their own issues and the government should not get involved with such trivial matters. (Don't even get me started on existing laws against holocaust denial).

    I don't like the names F.C.U.K. or Sweet Jesus Ice Cream, and I may make my opinion known on those but I would never ask for government action against them or their names because that's a very slippery slope and that's not the kind of country I want to live in.

    If you get your feelings hurt. Suck it up. If somebody mentions something that brings back bad memories for you. Suck it up. If somebody's licence plate uses a word that is or was also used to describe a terrible thing, so what? I really don't get this obsession nowadays with people getting their feelings hurt.

    This is what happens when we're not allowed to give children failing grades in school or even keep score at soccer games because they don't learn how to deal with hurt feelings.
    Last edited by Vincent; 25-05-2018 at 06:57 PM.

  11. #911

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I'm not sure what Isn't clear about what I stated. I disagree with Blatchford on this one.

    I'll be real clear here. The word Assimilate equates to Cultural Genocide in First Nations context. At this time of Truth and Reconciliation things like this are now generally being more widely understood.

    I'll expand that a lot of what have been refused plates seems a bit silly. For instance Grabher which is an actual surname. But this one there is no reason whatsoever to have the plate and its been deemed offensive, Manitoba agrees, and I agree with that assessment.

    Also, and this needs to be clear, the actual Manitoba plate is Asmil8 That's the plate. The Borg Resistance is Futile is a plate border. That does not change the decision on the plate because it is not the personalized version requested. Nor should it be up to Manitoba to cater to this man and allow him that offensive plate and to excuse it through some weird subcontext addendum.

    Finally, the owner of the plate mentions that a few people found the plate humorous. I don't really get that but I never watch Star Trek and particularly not the countless spin off series. I wouldn't know what a Borg is. I thought it was a Tennis player.
    The word “______” has long been used in the sense of abandoning one’s cultural background and adopting the dominate or “official” language honouring the laws of the ‘Canadian’ or ‘American’ (British?) way(s).

    I don’t recall “________” or “________” being used in anything I’ve read.

    That said, if a math lover, say a calculus teacher put ______ on their plate would that too would be disallowed as insensitive. My guess guess that it would just like the guy with the offensive last name was disallowed a personalized plate with his name on it.

    “Adopt” would also be offensive.




    I’m back.

    Here, in 1914 _______ was being used so I guess it was a term used to describe the destruction of the previous indigenous cultures.

    The ________ of the American Indian on JSTOR
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/2763215


    Here in the 1990s in retrospect:

    YAKIMA v. CONFEDERATED TRIBES | FindLaw

    “In the late 19th Century, the prevailing national policy of segregating lands for the exclusive use and control of the [502 U.S. 251, 254] Indian tribes gave way to a policy of allotting those lands to tribe members individually. The objectives of allotment were simple and clear-cut: to extinguish tribal sovereignty, erase reservation boundaries, and force the ________ of Indians into the society at large. See, e.g., In re Heff, 197 U.S. 488, 499 (1905). Congress was selective at first, allotting lands under differing approaches on a tribe-by-tribe basis. See F. Cohen, Handbook of Federal Indian Law 129-130 (1982); Gates, Indian Allotments Preceding the Dawes Act, in The Frontier Challenge 141 (J. Clark ed. 1971). These early efforts were marked by failure, however. Because allotted land could be sold soon after it was received, see, e.g., Treaty with the Wyandots, Apr. 1, 1850, 9 Stat. 987, 992, many of the early allottees quickly lost their land through transactions that were unwise or even procured by fraud. See Cohen, supra, at 130. Even if sales were for fair value, Indian allottees divested of their land were deprived of an opportunity to acquire agricultural and other self-sustaining economic skills, thus compromising Congress' purpose of ________.”

    https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supre...t/502/251.html
    Last edited by KC; 26-05-2018 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Removed the word that should not be used

  12. #912
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    "Christie Blatchford: Resistance is not futile when it comes to freedoms of expression | National Post

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chri...-of-expression"

    Yet another misapplication of "freedom of expression". There has never been an inalienable right to have anything you want printed up on a government-issued vanity plate. Here is a list of rejected plates from the same province that disallowed the borg reference...

    https://tinyurl.com/y7chl4gm

    Most of those would probably be legal to wear on a t-shirt, as well they should be. But everything changes when it's a appearing on a state-issued ID, considered a privilege to own.

    You can argue about whether or not the government's interpretation of the assimil8 slogan was correct, but the one thing this was not was a violation of anyone's right to free expression.

  13. #913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    [First of all, that's a terrible comparison. One is clearly a Star Trek reference, the other a genocide reference.

    Secondly I firmly believe that people should be allowed to say whatever they want, as long as their words are not designed to encourage violence. Even "I heart Holocaust" should be allowed because last I heard it was not against the law to be offensive. It's also not against the law to be rude or ignorant, nor should it ever be. At a certain point people need to learn to handle their own issues and the government should not get involved with such trivial matters. (Don't even get me started on existing laws against holocaust denial).

    I don't like the names F.C.U.K. or Sweet Jesus Ice Cream, and I may make my opinion known on those but I would never ask for government action against them or their names because that's a very slippery slope and that's not the kind of country I want to live in.

    If you get your feelings hurt. Suck it up. If somebody mentions something that brings back bad memories for you. Suck it up. If somebody's licence plate uses a word that is or was also used to describe a terrible thing, so what? I really don't get this obsession nowadays with people getting their feelings hurt.

    This is what happens when we're not allowed to give children failing grades in school or even keep score at soccer games because they don't learn how to deal with hurt feelings.
    First Assimilate is an actual term with actual defined meaning. Of course in licencing the actual meaning of a word and its connotation is going to take priority over some fantasy depiction of it. In short it doesn't matter one iota that the applicant felt the reference was obvious. The word is still culturally offensive with very clear meaning.


    The comparison is apt. Both involved genocide. Cultural and actual. Its unfortunate you don't comprehend that or that you feel the genocidal sufferings of Indigenous peoples is somehow a lesser thing.

    Your second point about freedom of speech is weak for reasons overoceans just covered (thank you)

    Then you go into the tired preamble about comparing it to other offensive names, ( a poor comparison in anycase) which are also not allowed on licence plates. So I'm not sure what your point is or if you even have one.

    It does seem that more Truth and Reconciliation is required as long as people are so clueless as to what the term assimilate would mean to any indigenous population that has faced cultural imperialism and genocide.
    Last edited by Replacement; 25-05-2018 at 07:57 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  14. #914

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    The word "assimilate" is not always a reference to genocide. In fact it very rarely is, but you would have us believe that it always refers to genocide. That's why this debate is stupid.

  15. #915

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    "The great aim of our legislation has been to do away with the tribal system and assimilate the Indian people in all respects with the other inhabitants of the Dominion as speedily as they are fit to change.” - Sir John A, MacDonald, 1887

    "“It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habitating so closely in these schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is being geared towards the final solution of our Indian Problem." - Sir John A. MacDonald, 1910

    "The objective – I quote from Sir John A. Macdonald, our revered forefather – was to 'take the Indian out of the child,' and thus solve what was referred to as the Indian problem. 'Indianness' was not to be tolerated; rather it must be eliminated. In the buzz-word of the day, assimilation; in the language of the 21st century, cultural genocide." - Supreme Court Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin, 2018

  16. #916

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    In reading the various quotes I now agree that it has a long and negative history of usage. However I don’t know what the ‘right’ answer is when a word has multiple histories and we have a constitution that guarantees freedom of expression. Plus if a usage has no motive or intent to be interpreted differently and/or negatively by another person or group with another interpretation, I don’t know who’s rights should erase another’s rights.

    One more thing, unlike the usage on a plate with a frame providing context indicating that it was a Star Trek reference, here on this forum are we not only using the word in reference to the cultural genocide context but also using the word in the very context via quotations, etc (as I had but have now erased) that reflects the offensiveness at the heart of this issue.

    Should all these posts be deleted from the c2e forum?
    Last edited by KC; 26-05-2018 at 07:31 AM.

  17. #917

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    Douglas Todd: Whether it’s sex or yoga, Canada’s campuses increasingly divided | Vancouver Sun
    Excerpts:

    “...
    MacKinnon, a former faculty association chair, dean of law and president of the universities of Saskatchewan and Athabasca, believes institutes of higher education are no longer debating over mere “differences.” They’re fracturing, with ominous implications for their traditional role as forums for discussion and collaboration.

    The mission of the university – which MacKinnon says is “seeking truth through advancing knowledge, learning and discovery” – is endangered. Too many righteous academics and students are not willing to tolerate debate over important ideas, “even while contestation is inevitable, indeed, definitional, and with it comes unease, discomfort and dissent.”


    “...in the way the director of social work at Ryerson, Henry Parada, resigned after he simply left an anti-racism rally. The Black Liberation Collective publicly accused Parada of “a violent act of ...”


    http://vancouversun.com/opinion/colu...singly-divided
    Last edited by KC; 26-05-2018 at 09:30 AM.

  18. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    "“It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habitating so closely in these schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is being geared towards the final solution of our Indian Problem." - Sir John A. MacDonald, 1910
    Not saying he didn't say this at some point, but John A. Macdonald died in 1891, nineteen years before the 1910 quote you are attributing to him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald

  19. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    "“It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habitating so closely in these schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is being geared towards the final solution of our Indian Problem." - Sir John A. MacDonald, 1910
    Not saying he didn't say this at some point, but John A. Macdonald died in 1891, nineteen years before the 1910 quote you are attributing to him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald
    This website attributes the quote to someone named Scott

  20. #920

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    "“It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habitating so closely in these schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is being geared towards the final solution of our Indian Problem." - Sir John A. MacDonald, 1910
    Not saying he didn't say this at some point, but John A. Macdonald died in 1891, nineteen years before the 1910 quote you are attributing to him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald
    This website attributes the quote to someone named Scott
    More...


    'I thought I understood' residential schools, but I did not know | HSAA

    “Until you listen to the stories, you will not understand.

    I will leave you with these words of Duncan Campbell Scott, as deputy superintendent general of Indian Affairs from 1913 until 1932. Scott took on the groundwork of Prime Minister John A. Macdonald’s legacy of repressive policies towards indigenous peoples further down the continuum of _______.

    “It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habitating so closely in these schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is being geared towards the final solution of our Indian problem.” 1910.

    We knew what was happening and yet we did nothing.

    ...”


    https://www.hsaa.ca/2017/07/07/i-tho...-did-not-know/

  21. #921

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    More on the “a” word:



    Another system of election – the one year elective system of the Indian Advancement Act – was initially proposed as a municipal style government.97 Sir John A. Macdonald, who was Superintendent General of Indian Affairs at the time, described the intention of the legislation in 1880:

    It is worthy of consideration whether legislative measures should not be adopted for the establishment of some kind of municipal system among such bands as are found sufficiently advanced to justify the experiment being tried. It is hoped that a system may be adopted which will have the effect of accustoming the Indians to the modes of government prevalent in the white communities surrounding them, and that it will thus tend to prepare them for earlier amalgamation with the general population of the country.98
    The persistent features are readily apparent in Macdonald's statement: the readiness of the government to impose systems on the First Nations and the intention to establish band councils as municipal style governments with ______ as the final objective. Also apparent is the underlying premise that this white style of government was decidedly superior to any form of existing Indian government. Furthermore, the First Nations would have to be "sufficiently advanced" to take on the system and would become even more "advanced" by practicing it.

    http://www.joanholmes.ca/Indian%20Ac...er%20Final.pdf
    Last edited by KC; 26-05-2018 at 06:40 PM.

  22. #922

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    You can't even say the word anymore? Seriously?

  23. #923

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    You can't even say the word anymore? Seriously?
    If it can’t go on license plates in reference to Star Trek because of its extremely negative association with attempted cultural genocide then, as I tried to say, how can we assume it’s ok to say it in discussion of the actual attempts at cultural genocide.


    Think Nazi swastika, bundles of sticks, the “N” word, swearwords...



    Swearwords are interesting.
    On this site they appear as: ******
    Last edited by KC; 26-05-2018 at 06:50 PM.

  24. #924

  25. #925

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    Gotta keep up with the times, right.

  26. #926

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    Why reactions to Stephen Hawking's death are ableist
    Excerpt:

    “Since the death of Stephen Hawking was announced, tributes and tweets have poured in and similar themes keep coming up again and again,” Louise said. “I’m seeing illustrations of him walking away from his wheelchair, countless tweets about how he overcame his disability during his lifetime, and just as many saying that he achieved what he did ‘despite’ his disability. All of these are ableist responses.

    “Equally, I see people saying he was inspiring because he was disabled, an example of inspiration porn,” she continued. “Disabled people don’t exist to inspire abled people. Be inspired by his incredible mind and work, be inspired by his humor and his activism, but don’t say he’s inspiring simply because he’s disabled. Hawking achieved everything he did with his disability, not despite it. He never overcame his disability like some have suggested; he simply lived with it and worked with it, finding different ways to do things.

    “I’ve also seen many people say that they don’t see his disability...”

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/reac...155031194.html


    EasyJet asked Paralympian to prove disability

    Excerpt:
    “In a series of tweets, Warner said EasyJet staff asked her to “prove [her] disability” because they thought she looked “completely normal.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/para...113239153.html
    Last edited by KC; 30-05-2018 at 07:48 PM.

  27. #927
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    As someone with a rather obvious disability...I say WTF?

    Ableist is such a ridiculous term. I am happy when people are impressed that I have overcome some significant challenges over the years. Not as significant as others, but I am also not in the disability pee pee contest.

    As for proving the disability, that is a back handed issue to me. I've been chastised when parking in a disabled stall with my red convertible, with a young female police officer telling me that "I better be disabled, because you don't look like it!"...

    ...to which I replied rather curtly, "Do tell me what disabled looks like?" Then I got out of the car...and the backtracking began. I must admit I took a small amount of joy in the stammering.

    But in all seriousness, it is a bit of a backhanded compliment that I have not allowed this disability to outwardly affect things too much. It stole my career, it continues to prevent me from gainful employment opportunities, and it still hurts like hell. But I have a choice...die or live.

    ...but when airport security guards say I look completely normal, I say thank you. Or, if I get yet another person telling me how nice it is to get "rock star parking", I always reply, "I will trade you legs and park at the furthest stall, and you can have this stall." Conversation ends...

    It is all in how you take it. I guess my **** you attitude wins..
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  28. #928

    Default

    John Cleese on Political Incorrectness (HBO)
    Real Time with Bill Maher


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCj6YNIpqmA
    Last edited by KC; 14-06-2018 at 09:47 PM.

  29. #929
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    ^your link goes to Terry Gilliam...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  30. #930

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ^your link goes to Terry Gilliam...
    John Cleese would not be pleased, he despises Terry Gilliam now. I just read his book.

    Heavily don't recommend his autobiography despite liking Cleese' work. He absolutely trashes Gilliam and others in the book. Not sure why.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  31. #931

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    Corrected the link: John Cleese on Political Incorrectness

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post

    John Cleese on Political Incorrectness (HBO)
    Real Time with Bill Maher



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCj6YNIpqmA




    Last edited by KC; 14-06-2018 at 09:54 PM.

  32. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ^your link goes to Terry Gilliam...
    John Cleese would not be pleased, he despises Terry Gilliam now. I just read his book.

    Heavily don't recommend his autobiography despite liking Cleese' work. He absolutely trashes Gilliam and others in the book. Not sure why.
    Just out of curiousity, what's the basic gist of his trashing of Gilliam?

    One thing that's occured to me before is that, of the surviving Pythons, Gilliam must be the wealthiest, by a considerable degree, even though in Python days he was probably the least known to the public.

    Not that I think that's the reason Cleese would be down on him, just sort of an observation.
    Last edited by overoceans; 15-06-2018 at 10:01 AM.

  33. #933

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ^your link goes to Terry Gilliam...
    John Cleese would not be pleased, he despises Terry Gilliam now. I just read his book.

    Heavily don't recommend his autobiography despite liking Cleese' work. He absolutely trashes Gilliam and others in the book. Not sure why.
    Just out of curiousity, what's the basic gist of his trashing of Gilliam?

    One thing that's occured to me before is that, of the surviving Pythons, Gilliam must be the wealthiest, by a considerable degree, even though in Python days he was probably the least known to the public.

    Not that I think that's the reason Cleese would be down on him, just sort of an observation.
    Cleese (Cheese) has always seemed to have a bit of a cold or harsh personality. (Maybe just a wider breadth of personality than typical.) Anyway that’s just his personality - or his public persona.

  34. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ^your link goes to Terry Gilliam...
    John Cleese would not be pleased, he despises Terry Gilliam now. I just read his book.

    Heavily don't recommend his autobiography despite liking Cleese' work. He absolutely trashes Gilliam and others in the book. Not sure why.
    Just out of curiousity, what's the basic gist of his trashing of Gilliam?

    One thing that's occured to me before is that, of the surviving Pythons, Gilliam must be the wealthiest, by a considerable degree, even though in Python days he was probably the least known to the public.

    Not that I think that's the reason Cleese would be down on him, just sort of an observation.
    Cleese (Cheese) has always seemed to have a bit of a cold or harsh personality. (Maybe just a wider breadth of personality than typical.) Anyway that’s just his personality - or his public persona.
    What I've noticed about Cleese is that when he's interviewed, he often seems to insist on being in character. And not just on late-night talk shows where the stand-ups usually keep telling jokes when they sit down in the guest's chair, but in more serious interview formats as well. I've always found it a little grating.

  35. #935

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    Love to see a follow up analysis to this discovery (see video at link below). ie It would be neat to look at each photo and learn the ‘what and why’ possibilities behind the “killing” of such photos so they could never be used.



    Gallery shows unseen censored US photos of the 1930s - BBC News

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/entertai...s-of-the-1930s

  36. #936

    Default

    An SJW feminist Millennial writes a hilarious article after being horrified and offended after watching the Simpsons for the first time

    I Watched 'The Simpsons' for the First Time Ever and I Couldn't Stand It
    How did you people put up with Homer's nastiness for so long?


    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j...uldnt-stand-it
    Ha ha

  37. #937

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    An SJW feminist Millennial writes a hilarious article after being horrified and offended after watching the Simpsons for the first time

    I Watched 'The Simpsons' for the First Time Ever and I Couldn't Stand It
    How did you people put up with Homer's nastiness for so long?


    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j...uldnt-stand-it
    Ha ha
    Started to read it, then skim it, then rapidly scroll, then quit. Long, dull and boring article about a just-ok cartoon that was funny at times but also predictable and so, often very dull and boring.

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    I did the same, but really the author tries so hard to be edgy, and comes off...oh wait....it is a Vice article. Vice, second only to Buzzfeed as being the brain cancer of the Internet.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  39. #939

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ^your link goes to Terry Gilliam...
    John Cleese would not be pleased, he despises Terry Gilliam now. I just read his book.

    Heavily don't recommend his autobiography despite liking Cleese' work. He absolutely trashes Gilliam and others in the book. Not sure why.
    Just out of curiousity, what's the basic gist of his trashing of Gilliam?

    One thing that's occured to me before is that, of the surviving Pythons, Gilliam must be the wealthiest, by a considerable degree, even though in Python days he was probably the least known to the public.

    Not that I think that's the reason Cleese would be down on him, just sort of an observation.
    I never saw this post before now. From reading the book it kind of confirms that Cleese has a pretty sardonic,sarcastic personality whose narrative is finding fault with others. Its a bit unsettling in that as he targets this villain or that the reader is left to question the person making these comments. In reading the book the reader is perhaps left less sympathetic to the comments then those that inhabited spaces in Cleese's life. tbh I put the book down at one point given the autobiography painted such an unflattering picture of the protagonist. So that if Cleese clarified his dislike for Gilliam at any point in the last couple chapters I didn't read it. Prior to that it read as free floatind derision.

    Cleese at some point does typify learned English disdain, that he learned collegiately if he didn't possess it before, and making me wonder a bit about all the material he had for upper class twits. In fairness in a lot of his work Cleese is tortured by mocking his own persona. He often said he didn't have to act, he was often being himself. he just had to learn to project that self effectively and in more pronounced fashion. His challenge in acting was to amplify persona on stage, which he learned.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  40. #940

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ^your link goes to Terry Gilliam...
    John Cleese would not be pleased, he despises Terry Gilliam now. I just read his book.

    Heavily don't recommend his autobiography despite liking Cleese' work. He absolutely trashes Gilliam and others in the book. Not sure why.
    Just out of curiousity, what's the basic gist of his trashing of Gilliam?

    One thing that's occured to me before is that, of the surviving Pythons, Gilliam must be the wealthiest, by a considerable degree, even though in Python days he was probably the least known to the public.

    Not that I think that's the reason Cleese would be down on him, just sort of an observation.
    Cleese (Cheese) has always seemed to have a bit of a cold or harsh personality. (Maybe just a wider breadth of personality than typical.) Anyway that’s just his personality - or his public persona.
    What I've noticed about Cleese is that when he's interviewed, he often seems to insist on being in character. And not just on late-night talk shows where the stand-ups usually keep telling jokes when they sit down in the guest's chair, but in more serious interview formats as well. I've always found it a little grating.
    In character or in himself? He IS the character he displays. Learning that was a little disappointing. One always felt he was taking runs at English or other propriety. In the end it was within himself. As with most comedians just reveals how conflicted they are and how much they struggle. Again Cleese WAS the upper class twit (even though he wasn't in lineage) that he's prodding in every episode. He adopted the persona in life, and in acting which he just figured was showing self.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  41. #941

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    So “he’s a natural”.

    That’s fine with me - as long as I don’t have to be around people like that or be the subject of attack.

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    However arrived at, it's just another facet of comedy. And it's proved very successful for him.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  43. #943

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    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..

    To Howie, yes, still fabulous work, will never forget his comic form.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-07-2018 at 12:41 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..
    As my dad would've said, "Wedding bells get to sound like alarm clocks."
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  45. #945

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..
    As my dad would've said, "Wedding bells get to sound like alarm clocks."
    heh, for Connie Booth I think it might have been her alarm. She's a pleasure, how does one not stay in that relationship? Albeit I think I had a juvenile crush on her back then so I may have a biased view..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #946

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..

    To Howie, yes, still fabulous work, will never forget his comic form.
    A whole lot of famous people (artists, actors, comedians etc) were rather nasty people. I believe Peter Sellers wasn’t the nicest guy. However his movies were often funny. Not sure where we should draw the line between liking and hating something because of the people behind it.

  47. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..
    As my dad would've said, "Wedding bells get to sound like alarm clocks."
    heh, for Connie Booth I think it might have been her alarm. She's a pleasure, how does one not stay in that relationship? Albeit I think I had a juvenile crush on her back then so I may have a biased view..
    As far as the women of Fawlty Towers went, at the time I had more of a crush on Prunella Scales, who played Sybill. I think I was probably a minority on that, I don't imagine there's any sort of serious "Bailey over Jennifer" contingent on that question.

    But there used to be on YouTube a video of Connie doing the Bookstore sketch with her then-husband. She's actually pretty adorable as the free-floating goofball.

  48. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..

    To Howie, yes, still fabulous work, will never forget his comic form.
    A whole lot of famous people (artists, actors, comedians etc) were rather nasty people. I believe Peter Sellers wasn’t the nicest guy. However his movies were often funny. Not sure where we should draw the line between liking and hating something because of the people behind it.
    The only guy I can't really do that with is convicted-rapist Bill Cosby, probably because liking his act very much involves liking him as a person. It would be different if he were just the writer of the jokes, not bringing his own persona onto the stage.

  49. #949

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..

    To Howie, yes, still fabulous work, will never forget his comic form.
    A whole lot of famous people (artists, actors, comedians etc) were rather nasty people. I believe Peter Sellers wasn’t the nicest guy. However his movies were often funny. Not sure where we should draw the line between liking and hating something because of the people behind it.
    I'm not hating anything, more just commenting on the degree of "nasty" for lack of better word, that upon reading, inhabited Cleese's narrative. \


    I do kind of hate my run on sentences though...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  50. #950

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..
    As my dad would've said, "Wedding bells get to sound like alarm clocks."
    heh, for Connie Booth I think it might have been her alarm. She's a pleasure, how does one not stay in that relationship? Albeit I think I had a juvenile crush on her back then so I may have a biased view..
    As far as the women of Fawlty Towers went, at the time I had more of a crush on Prunella Scales, who played Sybill. I think I was probably a minority on that, I don't imagine there's any sort of serious "Bailey over Jennifer" contingent on that question.

    But there used to be on YouTube a video of Connie doing the Bookstore sketch with her then-husband. She's actually pretty adorable as the free-floating goofball.
    Yep, I'm reasonably sure you'd be alone on having a crush with Sybil. heh.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  51. #951

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..
    As my dad would've said, "Wedding bells get to sound like alarm clocks."
    heh, for Connie Booth I think it might have been her alarm. She's a pleasure, how does one not stay in that relationship? Albeit I think I had a juvenile crush on her back then so I may have a biased view..
    As far as the women of Fawlty Towers went, at the time I had more of a crush on Prunella Scales, who played Sybill. I think I was probably a minority on that, I don't imagine there's any sort of serious "Bailey over Jennifer" contingent on that question.

    But there used to be on YouTube a video of Connie doing the Bookstore sketch with her then-husband. She's actually pretty adorable as the free-floating goofball.
    Yep, I'm reasonably sure you'd be alone on having a crush with Sybil. heh.
    Constance Booth

    Booth ended her acting career in 1995.[5] After studying for five years at London University,[3]she began a career as a psychotherapist, ...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Booth

  52. #952

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    I wonder how the Carry On movies would go over with people today.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZtlJ72IhfA

  53. #953

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    Don't have to look far

    How about an American Porn star Suzanne Pritchard as the 'feature' in the 1972 Klondike Parade?

    Lots of bikini clad ladies as well.

    BTW, try to find a fat dimensionally challenged person anywhere, in the parade, in the bands, on horses or even in the crowd. My, times have changed.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  54. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Don't have to look far

    How about an American Porn star Suzanne Pritchard as the 'feature' in the 1972 Klondike Parade?
    Can you provide any more information about this? I remember as a kid, mid-1970s, adults talking about some controversy involving sexual content at K-Days shows, but for obvious reasons they weren't in any hurry to give me the details. I'm wondering if it was connected to an adult-film star being in the parade.

  55. #955

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    If you look at the movies and other media at that time, you could walk into a store and the Playboy magazines were not hidden or in bags. There were strip clubs all over the place and the B grade movies were very violent and explicit.

    Times Square in 1970's



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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    If you look at the movies and other media at that time, you could walk into a store and the Playboy magazines were not hidden or in bags. There were strip clubs all over the place and the B grade movies were very violent and explicit.
    Yes, I remember that well. Not only were porn mags unwrapped, they were often displayed right at eye-level for middle-schoolers, with lots of highly explicit headlines and even photographs right on the cover.

    The funny thing is, nowadays a store could likely get sued for displaying stuff like that in full view of kids. Even though the kids themselves are probably seeing stuff just as bad on the internet, with even less of a taboo attached.

    But what I was actually wondering was if you could provide more details about the porn-star at the K-Days parade. How was it known what she did for a living? I'm assuming she wasn't billed to the public as such.

  57. #957
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    FWIW, Satan's Sadists does not appear to have been a porn film, though it certainly seems to have been promising the viewer salacious material.

    But point otherwise taken, you always saw ads for skin flicks on The Journal's movie page, back in the days when Studio 82 and that place on Jasper Ave. were going strong.

  58. #958

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    Sorry, I forgot to put on the link

    Here she is right at the beginning and at the 2 minute mark. Her "Show" was advertised on the side of the convertible she is riding.



    Just read the comments section or google Suzanne Pritchard images (must be over 18 )

    16mm raw footage of the Edmonton 1972 Klondike Days parade, shot on Canon Scoopic camera with Kodak ECO 7252 film, processed at Cine Audio. This was a camera-processing test, and features Edmonton Mayor Ivor Dent, pin-up girl Suzanne Pritchard, now defunct businesses such as Edmonton Telephones and Canadian Pacific Airlines.
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    Thanks.

    Of course, the connection between beauty-pageant-type events and the sex trade has always been there, as was shown during the Vanessa Williams scandal in the 80s, and is now on even more prominent display with the Trump presidency.

    And I remember a controversy in the 1980s about Klondike Kate herself, with feminists pointing out that she was, for all practical purposes, a brothel owner. Mind you, that job-description would have applied, albeit maybe not in the strictest legal sense, to any of the owners of certain anglophile-named hotels in the scuzzier districts of Edmonton.

  60. #960

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    I believe that even back in the 1920s things got pretty unrestrained in different parts of western culture. Should be nothing wrong with much of the above if the women or men involved are all acting out of their own “free will” and not imposing anything on a public with less liberal public “community standards”. Much like women wearing religious face covering clothing. If they are ok with it, what’s the problem.

    No harm. No foul.

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    Is this an overreaction by the Ukrainian community and politicians?

    Alberta, Quebec pull vodka with ‘troubling’ Soviet symbol from shelves

    The Ukrainian Canadian Congress believes a brand of liquor it calls offensive is no longer available in Canada.

    Executive director Ihor Michalchyshyn says he’s pleased that Alberta recently pulled Hammer + Sickle vodka from shelves following a complaint by his organization.

    He calls it a symbol of hate and genocide, much like the Nazi swastika.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4300924/s...hammer-sickle/
    The Hammer & Sickle was on the official national flag of the Soviet Union from 1923 to 1991. Sure the Soviet Union was responsible for atrocities during that period, but so were a whole lot of other nations. I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.

    Let the company sell the vodka.


  62. #962

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    I don't know. Have to think about this one. The Ukrainians have an honest issue. They were persecuted by the Russians before Hitler and after. Should we also allow the confederate flag on bourbon bottles or the Japanese 1930's rising sun or the ISIS flag on products or similar symbols of oppression? How about if we allow beer with a phallic symbol and call it Engorged **** Beer with the slogan, 'Suck on this!' ? H&S symbol was used by a marketer to move product by provoking a reaction. The reaction could be negative. You get the karma that it deserves?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 03-07-2018 at 10:59 PM.
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    I remember buying Penthouse magazines in 1970. Even Ron Reed (a name that would escape the memories of most people here) had "girly magazines" in his barbershop. I doubt there are any barber shops that carry magazines like that today. Magazines are still being made right?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  64. #964

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Is this an overreaction by the Ukrainian community and politicians?

    Alberta, Quebec pull vodka with ‘troubling’ Soviet symbol from shelves

    The Ukrainian Canadian Congress believes a brand of liquor it calls offensive is no longer available in Canada.

    Executive director Ihor Michalchyshyn says he’s pleased that Alberta recently pulled Hammer + Sickle vodka from shelves following a complaint by his organization.

    He calls it a symbol of hate and genocide, much like the Nazi swastika.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4300924/s...hammer-sickle/
    The Hammer & Sickle was on the official national flag of the Soviet Union from 1923 to 1991. Sure the Soviet Union was responsible for atrocities during that period, but so were a whole lot of other nations. I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.

    Let the company sell the vodka.

    A lot of Ukrainians suffered and died under Stalin. You tell me if you think that was not a genocide too.

  65. #965

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I remember buying Penthouse magazines in 1970. Even Ron Reed (a name that would escape the memories of most people here) had "girly magazines" in his barbershop. I doubt there are any barber shops that carry magazines like that today. Magazines are still being made right?
    And I remember the nude calendars and centerfold pictures pinned up in offices and in work areas of machine shops and local auto mechanics. At one of my suppliers they had a wall and ceiling of their shipping area abut 40 feet long with pinups, Makita, Wurth and other power tool company top less pictures, Sun newspaper girls ( remember the daily Sun Girl being the talk of the coffee room?) And a 10 foot section with a male version of pinups that the two women who also worked there had put up in equal representation. Times have changed but I sure wish I had a few of those Makita posters now. Some of the most beautiful women ever.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 04-07-2018 at 07:04 AM.
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  66. #966

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    ^^ "Holodomor", and sometimes currently—also referred to as the Great Famine, and The Ukrainian Genocide of 1932–33—was a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine in 1932 and 1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

    I knew people who survived it and their parents also survived the one in 1919. Stain and his regime were as bad and even worse than Hitler. We just don't get as much schooling on the facts.
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  67. #967

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Is this an overreaction by the Ukrainian community and politicians?

    Alberta, Quebec pull vodka with ‘troubling’ Soviet symbol from shelves

    The Ukrainian Canadian Congress believes a brand of liquor it calls offensive is no longer available in Canada.

    Executive director Ihor Michalchyshyn says he’s pleased that Alberta recently pulled Hammer + Sickle vodka from shelves following a complaint by his organization.

    He calls it a symbol of hate and genocide, much like the Nazi swastika.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4300924/s...hammer-sickle/
    The Hammer & Sickle was on the official national flag of the Soviet Union from 1923 to 1991. Sure the Soviet Union was responsible for atrocities during that period, but so were a whole lot of other nations. I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.

    Let the company sell the vodka.
    Disagree. There is no difference between the Swastika, and its murderous, genocidal reference, and that of the Hammer and Sickle. With the exception that under that flag the Russian regime was even more murderous and for a much more extended time. Take a step back and ask yourself how you don't see this.

    As incomprehensible as it may seem even far worse atrocity and for most of a century were committed under this barbarous ensign.

    This symbol ought to have been banned the moment the iron curtain folded. To me its very clear and easy to understand why this is a symbol of hate that should be history.


    To use it in commercial packaging for profit and sale is just offensive. Really it defies description. I can't describe ny contempt for companies that would use that as packaging and marketing.


    I'll go a step further. That its been ceded, fairly automatically that one symbol is clearly evil, and the other is not is troublesome in itself and requires that we take closer examination of our societal perceptions.
    Last edited by Replacement; 04-07-2018 at 09:21 AM.
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  68. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Is this an overreaction by the Ukrainian community and politicians?

    Alberta, Quebec pull vodka with ‘troubling’ Soviet symbol from shelves

    The Ukrainian Canadian Congress believes a brand of liquor it calls offensive is no longer available in Canada.

    Executive director Ihor Michalchyshyn says he’s pleased that Alberta recently pulled Hammer + Sickle vodka from shelves following a complaint by his organization.

    He calls it a symbol of hate and genocide, much like the Nazi swastika.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4300924/s...hammer-sickle/
    The Hammer & Sickle was on the official national flag of the Soviet Union from 1923 to 1991. Sure the Soviet Union was responsible for atrocities during that period, but so were a whole lot of other nations. I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.

    Let the company sell the vodka.
    Disagree. There is no difference between the Swastika, and its murderous, genocidal reference, and that of the Hammer and Sickle. With the exception that under that flag the Russian regime was even more murderous and for a much more extended time. Take a step back and ask yourself how you don't see this.

    As incomprehensible as it may seem even far worse atrocity and for most of a century were committed under this barbarous ensign.

    This symbol ought to have been banned the moment the iron curtain folded. To me its very clear and easy to understand why this is a symbol of hate that should be history.


    To use it in commercial packaging for profit and sale is just offensive. Really it defies description. I can't describe ny contempt for companies that would use that as packaging.
    In fairness, the companies who use that for promotion are almost always doing so out of nostalgist kitsch, not because they're endorsing what the Communists did. If anything, using it that way kind of deflates whatever glory Soviet Communism claimed to have, since you're treating it as just another consumerist novelty.

    And I'd willing to bet that a lot of these protesting Ukrainians thought Ronald Reagan was a great man, even though he helped fund a guerilla group that had at one time flown this as their flag.

    Not to mention Harper speaking at that rally in Paris a few days back, on behalf of an Iranian Marxist group which uses a variation of the hammer-and-sickle(with a gun replacing the hammer) as their logo.
    Last edited by overoceans; 04-07-2018 at 09:56 AM.

  69. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Should we also allow the confederate flag on bourbon bottles or the Japanese 1930's rising sun or the ISIS flag on products or similar symbols of oppression?
    Well, as for the Rising Sun...

    (That said, I would certainly understand it if some Chinese or Korean people in NJ took exception to that.)

  70. #970
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    Here's an article about one of numerous Hitler Bars that were popular in Korea a decade or two ago.

    As you can probably surmise, the Anti-Comintern Pact notwithstanding, not many people in Korea really connect Hitler with the much-despised Japanese militarists of the 1930s and '40s. A bar operating under the latter theme would likely have been trashed by an angry mob.

  71. #971

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Is this an overreaction by the Ukrainian community and politicians?

    Alberta, Quebec pull vodka with ‘troubling’ Soviet symbol from shelves

    The Ukrainian Canadian Congress believes a brand of liquor it calls offensive is no longer available in Canada.

    Executive director Ihor Michalchyshyn says he’s pleased that Alberta recently pulled Hammer + Sickle vodka from shelves following a complaint by his organization.

    He calls it a symbol of hate and genocide, much like the Nazi swastika.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4300924/s...hammer-sickle/
    The Hammer & Sickle was on the official national flag of the Soviet Union from 1923 to 1991. Sure the Soviet Union was responsible for atrocities during that period, but so were a whole lot of other nations. I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.

    Let the company sell the vodka.
    Disagree. There is no difference between the Swastika, and its murderous, genocidal reference, and that of the Hammer and Sickle. With the exception that under that flag the Russian regime was even more murderous and for a much more extended time. Take a step back and ask yourself how you don't see this.

    As incomprehensible as it may seem even far worse atrocity and for most of a century were committed under this barbarous ensign.

    This symbol ought to have been banned the moment the iron curtain folded. To me its very clear and easy to understand why this is a symbol of hate that should be history.


    To use it in commercial packaging for profit and sale is just offensive. Really it defies description. I can't describe ny contempt for companies that would use that as packaging.
    In fairness, the companies who use that for promotion are almost always doing so out of nostalgist kitsch, not because they're endorsing what the Communists did. If anything, using it that way kind of deflates whatever glory Soviet Communism claimed to have, since you're treating it as just another consumerist novelty.

    And I'd willing to bet that a lot of these protesting Ukrainians thought Ronald Reagan was a great man, even though he helped fund a guerilla group that had at one time flown this as their flag.

    Not to mention Harper speaking at that rally in Paris a few days back, on behalf of an Iranian Marxist group which uses a variation of the hammer-and-sickle(with a gun replacing the hammer) as their logo.
    I comprehend that usage, I did while writing what I wrote, that the marketers probably thought its "just another consumerist novelty" tool.

    There is nothing trivial, or innocent about evoking that symbolism, shame on them (not you) for thinking so. Its knowing that it was used in that trivial marketing context, like its a mere symbol, a rotten ronnies M, that is arguably as offensive. Which is rightly being challenged.
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    If I owned a liquor store I could see myself scraping that little thing off with a razor blade and putting a smiley face sticker over the spot. Problem solved.

  73. #973

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Here's an article about one of numerous Hitler Bars that were popular in Korea a decade or two ago.

    As you can probably surmise, the Anti-Comintern Pact notwithstanding, not many people in Korea really connect Hitler with the much-despised Japanese militarists of the 1930s and '40s. A bar operating under the latter theme would likely have been trashed by an angry mob.
    Given present day globalism there is, and should be an erosion of geospecific tolerances and imo citing them does not provide a defense of the usage. It just indicates that people that were not subject to the specific genocide are not invoked by the specific symbolism. However, given that they have experienced genocidal atrocity should make them more sensitive to the issue.

    The double standard reaction to symbolism that you describe is just that, and it is myopic, and so that people accepting "hitler bars" should probably know better as they would not condone rising sun bars as you state.

    The global world requires us to expand our knowledge and sensitivities which is a work in progress, for all of us.
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  74. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Here's an article about one of numerous Hitler Bars that were popular in Korea a decade or two ago.

    As you can probably surmise, the Anti-Comintern Pact notwithstanding, not many people in Korea really connect Hitler with the much-despised Japanese militarists of the 1930s and '40s. A bar operating under the latter theme would likely have been trashed by an angry mob.
    Given present day globalism there is, and should be an erosion of geospecific tolerances and imo citing them does not provide a defense of the usage. It just indicates that people that were not subject to the specific genocide are not invoked by the specific symbolism. However, given that they have experienced genocidal atrocity should make them more sensitive to the issue.

    The double standard reaction to symbolism that you describe is just that, and it is myopic, and so that people accepting "hitler bars" should probably know better as they would not condone rising sun bars as you state.

    The global world requires us to expand our knowledge and sensitivities which is a work in progress, for all of us.
    Okay, but is there a statute-of-limitations, or a minimum body count, required when deciding that a particular historical theme should not be used for advertising and promotion? I can imagine there are some Russians who might take exception to this, for example, even though I'm personally rather fond of the historical figure referenced there.

  75. #975

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    ^As always an interesting point, and I always enjoy the dialog. My reply to the Napoleon one is that there would be an apparent shelf life to symbols, names, evoking trauma. Although these run through generations into the next ones (Hitler and Nazis impacted my family and my life even though I was born in Canada decades later) I dare say influences and scars can last generations. But not many people would be impacted by Napolean citation today. So that there does seem to be a temporal limitation of sorts. Similarly Goths, Huns, Hordes, Romans, in time the connotations change, and are co-opted. It hasn't been that long since Nazism was a scourge and its been far less time since Stalinism/Communism was a scourge.

    Body count? C'mon, I don't respect that comment. Magnitudes in millions we are talking about in context here. So that this discussion isn't involving any matter of degrees. we're talking global genocide in all the cited instances.

    That said I do comprehend you are just looking at this analytically.
    Last edited by Replacement; 04-07-2018 at 11:42 AM.
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  76. #976

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    List that shows USSR and Stalin in four events





    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
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  77. #977
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    Replacement:

    Thanks for the replies. As for this...

    Body count? C'mon, I don't respect that comment. Magnitudes in millions we are talking about in context here. So that this discussion isn't involving any matter of degrees. we're talking global genocide in all the cited instances.
    What I meant was, in regards to my Napoleon example, someone might respond that the brandy logo is less offensive because Napoleon didn't kill as many people as Stalin.

    According to a book I'm reading right now, the number of dead in ALL the wars emerging from the French Revolution(so, including but not limited to Napoleon's) was about a million, over a period of about twenty years, whereas, the US Civil War claimed about 600 000 lives, over a period of FOUR years. (Caveat: Wikipedia seems to give higher numbers for the Civil War).

  78. #978

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.
    I absolutely would.

    Naziism is collectivism by race, Communism is collectivism by class. Both led to untold levels of mass torture, execution, imprisonment, and other forms of brutality on tens of millions of innocent individuals over the past century.

  79. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Is this an overreaction by the Ukrainian community and politicians?

    Alberta, Quebec pull vodka with ‘troubling’ Soviet symbol from shelves

    The Ukrainian Canadian Congress believes a brand of liquor it calls offensive is no longer available in Canada.

    Executive director Ihor Michalchyshyn says he’s pleased that Alberta recently pulled Hammer + Sickle vodka from shelves following a complaint by his organization.

    He calls it a symbol of hate and genocide, much like the Nazi swastika.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4300924/s...hammer-sickle/
    The Hammer & Sickle was on the official national flag of the Soviet Union from 1923 to 1991. Sure the Soviet Union was responsible for atrocities during that period, but so were a whole lot of other nations. I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.

    Let the company sell the vodka.
    Disagree. There is no difference between the Swastika, and its murderous, genocidal reference, and that of the Hammer and Sickle. With the exception that under that flag the Russian regime was even more murderous and for a much more extended time. Take a step back and ask yourself how you don't see this.

    As incomprehensible as it may seem even far worse atrocity and for most of a century were committed under this barbarous ensign.

    This symbol ought to have been banned the moment the iron curtain folded. To me its very clear and easy to understand why this is a symbol of hate that should be history.


    To use it in commercial packaging for profit and sale is just offensive. Really it defies description. I can't describe ny contempt for companies that would use that as packaging and marketing.


    I'll go a step further. That its been ceded, fairly automatically that one symbol is clearly evil, and the other is not is troublesome in itself and requires that we take closer examination of our societal perceptions.
    Actually the Swastika was used long before the Nazi's used it.
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  80. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I remember buying Penthouse magazines in 1970. Even Ron Reed (a name that would escape the memories of most people here) had "girly magazines" in his barbershop. I doubt there are any barber shops that carry magazines like that today. Magazines are still being made right?
    And I remember the nude calendars and centerfold pictures pinned up in offices and in work areas of machine shops and local auto mechanics. At one of my suppliers they had a wall and ceiling of their shipping area abut 40 feet long with pinups, Makita, Wurth and other power tool company top less pictures, Sun newspaper girls ( remember the daily Sun Girl being the talk of the coffee room?) And a 10 foot section with a male version of pinups that the two women who also worked there had put up in equal representation. Times have changed but I sure wish I had a few of those Makita posters now. Some of the most beautiful women ever.
    I can see where some women especially those that work in the buildings you mention would get offended by that. Talk about a toxic working environment. A colleague of mines brother took many Edmonton Sun sunshine girl photos, plus photos of the local scene going on at the time. I'm not exactly Sunshine boy material but back in 1998 I got my mug photographed/published on the front page of the Edmonton Sun Sunday edition. That's a story for another time. But still anyone who ever got their hair cut at Ron Reed's barbershop in the 70's would know of the playboy mags he had scattered on the coffee table in his shop. Ron wouldn't have any hardcore porn mags in his shop. I'm not sure if the new owner of M'Lord's barbershop in the Baker Centre (not Baker clinic) has any Playboys on his coffee table.
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  81. #981

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    I remember the bio's of the Edmonton & Toronto Sun sunshine girl photos used code words. If it said 'she enjoyed horseback riding', that meant that she had sex with the photographer. It became a contest between the papers until management caught on with the practice and banned code words.

    Just watch Mad Men and you understand that it was a different time

    A Playboy Club was an upscale, exclusive club. Hugh Hefner had his own show with famous personalities that was on some ABC and later CBS stations. It broke major color barrier rules and showed socializing between the color lines.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playboy%27s_Penthouse

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    I would not compare the Hammer & Sickle to the Nazi swastika.
    I absolutely would.

    Naziism is collectivism by race, Communism is collectivism by class. Both led to untold levels of mass torture, execution, imprisonment, and other forms of brutality on tens of millions of innocent individuals over the past century.
    Thank you everyone for the history lesson. Whenever I see the Soviet Union flag I just think of the iron curtain, cold war, and hockey summit series.

    I did not realize the magnitude of negative emotions the Hammer & Sickle affected people.

    Edmonton PRT said it best when he compared it as having a confederate flag on a bottle of bourbon. It would not go over well.

  83. #983

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    Don't kid yourself, Trump supporters would be buying cases of that bourbon and pay double if it had Trump's seal of approval.
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  84. #984

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    Hate speech:

    Facebook finds Independence document 'racist' - BBC News

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44722728

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember the bio's of the [COLOR=#333333]Edmonton & Toronto Sun sunshine girl photos used code words. If it said 'she enjoyed horseback riding', that meant that she had sex with the photographer. It became a contest between the papers until management caught on with the practice and banned code words.
    What's your source for that? I ask, because there used to be a similar story about Playboy, which turned out to be false.

    https://tinyurl.com/y8sorfcy

    Not that I doubt that either Hef or your typical Sun photographer bedded a lot of models.

  86. #986

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    For the record, I oppose "censoring" or "forbidding" the use of any of those symbols (Hammer & Sickle, Swaztika, Confederate Flag, ISIS flag, etc.). I think it is important to be able to see them in the open and to have open discussions about what they represent (and also what they do not represent).

    I really despise censorship, and I strongly advocate for freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

  87. #987

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    Monty Python's Terry Gilliam on "Diversity":


    https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...-black-lesbian

    Terry Gilliam has responded to the BBC diversity debate which referenced Monty Python by saying: “I tell the world now I’m a black lesbian.”

    ....

    Comedy is not assembled, it’s not like putting together a boy band where you put together one of this, one of that everyone is represented.”

    Gilliam follows fellow Python member John Cleese’s angry response to Allen’s comment, who tweeted: “Unfair! We were remarkably diverse FOR OUR TIME ... We had three grammar-school boys, one a poof, and Gilliam, though not actually black, was a Yank. And NO slave-owners.”

  88. #988

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember the bio's of the [COLOR=#333333]Edmonton & Toronto Sun sunshine girl photos used code words. If it said 'she enjoyed horseback riding', that meant that she had sex with the photographer. It became a contest between the papers until management caught on with the practice and banned code words.
    What's your source for that? I ask, because there used to be a similar story about Playboy, which turned out to be false.

    https://tinyurl.com/y8sorfcy

    Not that I doubt that either Hef or your typical Sun photographer bedded a lot of models.
    I read about it in a Toronto arts and entertainment newspaper 20 years ago. It was a rumour I also heard in Edmonton.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/com...sunshine_girl/

    I do not have proof because the issue was never in a Court of law but one photographer did get charged in a lawsuit brought on by 50 claimants

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4150456/
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  89. #989

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    ^Shane Allen should now claim he was attempting comedy with his diversity assembled comedy team theme.


    I guess in the future every program and sitcom needs to have proportional numbers.


    The interesting thing is we pretty much know Monty Python would not have occurred in todays climate. That's a greater tragedy.
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  90. #990

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember the bio's of the [COLOR=#333333]Edmonton & Toronto Sun sunshine girl photos used code words. If it said 'she enjoyed horseback riding', that meant that she had sex with the photographer. It became a contest between the papers until management caught on with the practice and banned code words.
    What's your source for that? I ask, because there used to be a similar story about Playboy, which turned out to be false.

    https://tinyurl.com/y8sorfcy

    Not that I doubt that either Hef or your typical Sun photographer bedded a lot of models.
    I read about it in a Toronto arts and entertainment newspaper 20 years ago. It was a rumour I also heard in Edmonton.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/com...sunshine_girl/

    I do not have proof because the issue was never in a Court of law but one photographer did get charged in a lawsuit brought on by 50 claimants

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4150456/
    I knew one of the Sun photographers who did the shoots for around 7yrs. No, he did not bed the girls, although he loved looking at them and was that kind of character that could have inspired the movie "40year old virgin". From the start he had a fairly infantile attitude towards it and that it was just cool taking shots of "Chicks and babes" He took the shots in and around Edmonton btw and that was before the Sun papers used mostly National Sunshine Girls. They used to be mostly local in each reason. I knew several of the girls as well. Mostly empowered individuals that certainly wouldn't be succumbing to lame advances to get their photos taken. Most of them just considered themselves attractive, youthful, and wanted that captured just for posterity. It wasn't a sordid casting couch arrangement for advancement.


    You should consider that in your theory you are denigrating photographers, models, Sunshine Girls all alike.
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  91. #991

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    For the record, I oppose "censoring" or "forbidding" the use of any of those symbols (Hammer & Sickle, Swaztika, Confederate Flag, ISIS flag, etc.). I think it is important to be able to see them in the open and to have open discussions about what they represent (and also what they do not represent).

    I really despise censorship, and I strongly advocate for freedom of speech and freedom of expression.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You should consider that in your theory you are denigrating photographers, models, Sunshine Girls all alike.
    Point taken, one shouldn't make assumptions or generalizations about people in certain occupations. There are a few rock stars, for example, who will have nothing to do with groupies, as a result of wanting to hold their marriages together. Charlie Watts of the Rolling Stones being a famous example.

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    Another thing...

    If a photographer is getting laid because women want him to take their picture, that's pretty much indistinguishable from paying for sex. Kind of strange that they would be bragging about that, though I suppose the barter-system version of prostitution might seem less blatantly pathetic to some people than the cash-economy version.

  94. #994

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Hate speech:

    Facebook finds Independence document 'racist' - BBC News

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-44722728
    Proof that the world is confusing language.

    The lines between descriptive language, insulting language, racism, opinion and hate speech all seem to have been erased by some as though they are all the same thing. In the declaration of independence for example the phrase "merciless indian savages" was meant to be descriptive, not insulting. It's kind of like how nowadays some people are afraid to say things like "black guy" because they think it can be construed as racist, even though it's not. Or saying the "holocaust is a lie" being considered hate speech or anti-semitic even though it's neither of those things. The speech police are out in full force these days, even in so called "free countries".

  95. #995

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember the bio's of the [COLOR=#333333]Edmonton & Toronto Sun sunshine girl photos used code words. If it said 'she enjoyed horseback riding', that meant that she had sex with the photographer. It became a contest between the papers until management caught on with the practice and banned code words.
    What's your source for that? I ask, because there used to be a similar story about Playboy, which turned out to be false.

    https://tinyurl.com/y8sorfcy

    Not that I doubt that either Hef or your typical Sun photographer bedded a lot of models.
    I read about it in a Toronto arts and entertainment newspaper 20 years ago. It was a rumour I also heard in Edmonton.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/com...sunshine_girl/

    I do not have proof because the issue was never in a Court of law but one photographer did get charged in a lawsuit brought on by 50 claimants

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4150456/
    I knew one of the Sun photographers who did the shoots for around 7yrs. No, he did not bed the girls, although he loved looking at them and was that kind of character that could have inspired the movie "40year old virgin". From the start he had a fairly infantile attitude towards it and that it was just cool taking shots of "Chicks and babes" He took the shots in and around Edmonton btw and that was before the Sun papers used mostly National Sunshine Girls. They used to be mostly local in each reason. I knew several of the girls as well. Mostly empowered individuals that certainly wouldn't be succumbing to lame advances to get their photos taken. Most of them just considered themselves attractive, youthful, and wanted that captured just for posterity. It wasn't a sordid casting couch arrangement for advancement.


    You should consider that in your theory you are denigrating photographers, models, Sunshine Girls all alike.
    It is not "my theory" it is what I heard and read in a published newspaper article. I never stated or implied that all Sun SSG photographers were doing this.

    Your acquaintance may have been totally above board. Betts was one example who got caught.

    If I said that some politicians are crooked, are you going to say that I am denigrating politicians, their Party, and the people that voted for them all alike?


    Please give your head a shake...
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  96. #996

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Another thing...

    If a photographer is getting laid because women want him to take their picture, that's pretty much indistinguishable from paying for sex. Kind of strange that they would be bragging about that, though I suppose the barter-system version of prostitution might seem less blatantly pathetic to some people than the cash-economy version.
    I know women and single moms who had trouble paying their rent and the landlord offered to trade a few 'favors' for overdue rent.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  97. #997

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I remember the bio's of the [COLOR=#333333]Edmonton & Toronto Sun sunshine girl photos used code words. If it said 'she enjoyed horseback riding', that meant that she had sex with the photographer. It became a contest between the papers until management caught on with the practice and banned code words.
    What's your source for that? I ask, because there used to be a similar story about Playboy, which turned out to be false.

    https://tinyurl.com/y8sorfcy

    Not that I doubt that either Hef or your typical Sun photographer bedded a lot of models.
    I read about it in a Toronto arts and entertainment newspaper 20 years ago. It was a rumour I also heard in Edmonton.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/com...sunshine_girl/

    I do not have proof because the issue was never in a Court of law but one photographer did get charged in a lawsuit brought on by 50 claimants

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle4150456/
    I knew one of the Sun photographers who did the shoots for around 7yrs. No, he did not bed the girls, although he loved looking at them and was that kind of character that could have inspired the movie "40year old virgin". From the start he had a fairly infantile attitude towards it and that it was just cool taking shots of "Chicks and babes" He took the shots in and around Edmonton btw and that was before the Sun papers used mostly National Sunshine Girls. They used to be mostly local in each reason. I knew several of the girls as well. Mostly empowered individuals that certainly wouldn't be succumbing to lame advances to get their photos taken. Most of them just considered themselves attractive, youthful, and wanted that captured just for posterity. It wasn't a sordid casting couch arrangement for advancement.


    You should consider that in your theory you are denigrating photographers, models, Sunshine Girls all alike.
    It is not "my theory" it is what I heard and read in a published newspaper article. I never stated or implied that all Sun SSG photographers were doing this.

    Your acquaintance may have been totally above board. Betts was one example who got caught.

    If I said that some politicians are crooked, are you going to say that I am denigrating politicians, their Party, and the people that voted for them all alike?


    Please give your head a shake...

    You stated and inferred that the standard and practice ran from the Edmonton Sun to the Toronto Sun, and that it was so endemic that there were secret codes on this and to the point where editors clamped down on this. When asked to substantiate "you don't have proof" you have "recollection from something you read 20 yrs ago" lol your citation is a reddit question from a user named "tacky tack" and whose question was refuted by multiple posters and with only one surmising on the horseback riding theme (for all anybody would know that was you saying that there as well).. and you're telling me to give my head a shake?

    You're spreading lame rumors and gossip and you question why its being confronted? The burden of proof was on you given that you expounded on it and you have none. So maybe stop..


    Hey, when Jim Morrison or Willy Dixon sang "backdoor man" I think it was pretty clear what they meant. When a Sunshine girl who "Likes horseback riding" comes from a farm, or owns a horse, or that is standing next to a horse says that it could be that its actually what it says..

    Your imagination may vary.
    Last edited by Replacement; 05-07-2018 at 12:26 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  98. #998
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Another thing...

    If a photographer is getting laid because women want him to take their picture, that's pretty much indistinguishable from paying for sex. Kind of strange that they would be bragging about that, though I suppose the barter-system version of prostitution might seem less blatantly pathetic to some people than the cash-economy version.
    I know women and single moms who had trouble paying their rent and the landlord offered to trade a few 'favors' for overdue rent.
    Oh yeah, I've heard of that too. The point is, though, it wouldn't really make sense for landlords to brag about that to their buddies, because it's ultimately no different than paying cash for sex outright.

  99. #999
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
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    ^ There was a similar story about this in Vancouvers tight rental market awhile back where some men had a spare suite/room, "room for rent for right female." They'd trade the room for favours or "girlfriend services."
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  100. #1000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^It kind of makes one revisit his acting works and chops though. Regardless of what movie or series it was. He did have considerable disdain for Yanks which was interesting in that it sometimes came across in US performances that he wasn't acting about that and got some boo's and catcalls for it. At least he was honest and held no punches with that. But its interesting as he's married several American wives and I think is on his fifth now, I'm having trouble counting..

    To Howie, yes, still fabulous work, will never forget his comic form.
    A whole lot of famous people (artists, actors, comedians etc) were rather nasty people. I believe Peter Sellers wasn’t the nicest guy. However his movies were often funny. Not sure where we should draw the line between liking and hating something because of the people behind it.
    I'm not hating anything, more just commenting on the degree of "nasty" for lack of better word, that upon reading, inhabited Cleese's narrative. \


    I do kind of hate my run on sentences though...

    Why John Cleese is leaving the UK - BBC News

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/entertai...leaving-the-uk

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