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Thread: Enough of these 'I'm Offended, It's not Politically Correct' people already

  1. #401
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    Oh looky, the mass media is starting to catch on.

    The budget's gender-based analysis forgot to look at one thing — men: Neil Macdonald

    Men are falling behind in education and losing their jobs in the resource and manufacturing sectors

    In last week's federal budget, which brimmed with worthiness, the Trudeau government announced its determination to identify how its spending "affect(s) men and women differently."
    Utterly sensible, on the face of it.

    While some, particularly in academia, regard gender as a "cisnormative" construct, the human race is in fact binary, and, as the budget's authors acknowledge, government policies have different impacts on men and women.

    "Governments must understand to what extent their policy choices will produce different outcomes for all people," it says, inclusively.

    Read past the first few paragraphs, though, and "all people" quickly morphs into "women."

    That shouldn't be terribly surprising. Our prime minister says he's a feminist, and he's determined to use the levers of governing to correct discrimination.

    The budget's gender statement focuses on the gap in wages (women make 87 cents for every dollar made by men), on the gross underrepresentation of women in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) jobs, on the fact that men still enjoy most of the best positions in the private sector, on the lack of affordable daycare (single mothers fare worse than just about everyone else) and on the fact that women are more likely to experience poverty, violence and harassment, particularly if they are indigenous.

    The government further promises a deeper dive into gender-based injustice with every succeeding budget.

    All of which is fair, and worthy, and was accepted by the parliamentary press corps with approving nods.

    Every liberal, after all, is raised to believe that male privilege is the anchor determinant in our society, and that being born male — especially a white male — confers possession of the keys to society's ignition.

    And yet.

    Here are a few things the budget's gender-based analysis ignores, and might be worth addressing next time:

    Women do much better than men in school.

    That wasn't the case even 20 years ago, but as Statistics Canada puts it: "Today, the situation is completely different. Education indicators show that women generally do better than men."

    The gap begins in kindergarten, where girls earn better marks than boys, and continues right through university.

    "More girls than boys earn their high school diploma within the expected timeframe, and girls are less likely to drop out. More women than men enrol in college and university programs. A greater percentage of women leave these programs with a diploma or degree."

    If that trend continues, and there is no reason to believe it won't, it isn't hard to see what lies ahead: an increasingly uneducated and unemployable male population.

    "It is quite troubling that increasing numbers of young men are dropping out," says Philip Cross, former chief economic analyst for Statistics Canada. "They don't tend to do well in public school, and they're constantly told that if you don't go to university, you might as well not be in our society, and they know they probably aren't going to university, so they just drop out.

    An increasing number of men are not in the labour force and not going to school. This is not good."

    Women have not yet caught up to men in the private sector, but they own the public service, by far the single biggest employer in the country.

    According to Statistics Canada, women not only comprise 71 per cent of Canada's 4.1 million public sector jobs at all levels of government, but "gender parity now exists in the public sector with respect to women's representation in leadership positions."

    Meaning that while women are still a designated group for the purposes of preferential hiring in the public service, they now have most of the jobs and at least half of the most senior jobs.

    Cross puts it rather bluntly: "Women are overrepresented in government, and government jobs are the best jobs. Best job security, best pension benefits, best everything."

    Further, he says, women now dominate the feeder positions for all the most senior jobs in government.

    The overwhelming majority of people who have lost their jobs in the resource sector out west and the manufacturing sector, mostly in Ontario, are men.

    As Springsteen sang, these jobs are going, boys, and they ain't coming back.

    "There is a certain type of man who you wanted in the oil sands, out of town, blowing things up," says Cross. "Those people still exist, and now they are jobless, and what do we do with them now?"

    Exact figures are difficult to find, but Janice MacKinnon, a university professor and former NDP finance minister in Saskatchewan, says it's a "staggering number." And those jobs that do come back will demand higher skill levels.

    She notes there is absolutely nothing in the budget's gender-based analysis about those jobs, or what to do about their disappearance.

    Where's the strategy on that?" she asks. "If you are going to look at gender, that's fine, but there are areas where boys and men are struggling, and they need to be documented, too."

    MacKinnon even goes so far as to say that being a white male entering the current job market is a disadvantage.

    Cross puts it another way: "Historically, our economic system has favoured men, but the trend is in the opposite direction."

    He would dearly like someone to ask the government why none of its gender-based analysis addressed any of the forgoing.

    So I wrote one of the prime minister's senior advisers to ask.

    The reply: "It is a reasonable question to ask."

    But, um, no answer.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/gende...ysis-1.4043312
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  2. #402

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    Study: Describing Breastfeeding as "Natural" is Unethical Because it Reinforces gender Roles

    Unintended Consequences of Invoking the “Natural” in Breastfeeding Promotion http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...37/4/e20154154

    "Coupling nature with motherhood, however, can inadvertently support biologically deterministic arguments about the roles of men and women in the family (for example, that women should be the primary caretakers of children). Referencing the “natural” in breastfeeding promotion, then, may inadvertently endorse a controversial set of values about family life and gender roles, which would be ethically inappropriate."
    Thanks, feminism. Great advice!

  3. #403

    Default ASIMIL8 - a reference to star trek / borg, considered offensive


  4. #404
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    Yup, really. One person complains and makes the decision for thousands, even millions. Just one. More effective than our political system. hmmm...
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

  5. #405

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    One complaint by the wronged is worth more than any number, thousands or millions, of creeps masturbating their spite or yuks.

  6. #406

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    ^ Nobody was wronged by that license plate.



    In other news by lefty whiners :

    New York Times says McDonald's Asian Salad is racist (WARNING - this article is really long and a complete waste of everyone's time):
    http://archive.is/feZ75

  7. #407

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    Lefty whiners? The only ones whining are the putrid bigots who can't get over the silly fact someone not quite like them might be in range of moving their air molecules.

  8. #408

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    ^^Or by cultural assassination,assimilation, residential schools, child scoops, banning of culture and spirituality. At least know the history. Or the circumstance in which its still occurring.

    Nick TROLLer can't understand why its offensive to people in this country or that Province to be having a licence plate with ASSIMILATE, resistance is futile on it? He thinks that's a harmless Startrek or borg reference only? Maybe he should get out a bit. At best this guy is an *****. That's being charitable.

    Keep this in mind. If the licence plate said Support Ethnic cleansing, resistance is futile" could people see why first Nations peoples would be offended with the term that was so oft used to destroy their culture, peoples, way of life.

    In this situation the Licencing got it right.

    ps Pay attention to something else. Every article in this is putting priority on Trollers opinion, showing his picture, showing his vehicle, sympathetic to his pov. The complaints about the licence plate are given short mention, invariably, in the articles. So that this Nick TROLL gets sympathetic press on this. Interesting.
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-04-2017 at 12:18 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  9. #409

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    For those that can't differentiate, GRABHER was a persons surname. A person would have to try to be offended at that licence plate and which obviously is a surname. The person in that instance isn't trying anything other than having his licence plate personalized with name.

    The word assimilate, to first nations peoples would be an incredibly offensive term. For just reason. For some imbecile Star Trek fan to claim ignorance of that fact, in Manitoba of all places means one of a few things;

    1) He's a troll just looking to see what would happen and how far he could stretch this so that he could inevitably get his name in the papers.

    2)He's a home schooled adult child stuck in his parents basement that gets out in daylight long enough to buy the latest Star Trek merchandise. Alternately he's spent his whole life living in a cave raised by a pack of wolves.

    3) He's incredibly moronic.

    4) He's a bold faced liar and knew exactly what he was doing and who it was offending.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  10. #410

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    If anyone is bigoted (or nerd) enough to go around parading an "assimilate, resistance is futile" message on their cars, they have constitutional guarantees to do it, subject always to their fear of vandalism or worse. Let them make their own bumper stickers.

    There can be no such accommodation on plates issued by the government, and anyone who demands it forfeits their right to be taken with any good will at all.

  11. #411

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    Agreed on all points

    Same thing for a plate that says "UberAll"
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  12. #412

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    Heres a better article that hilites this persons mindset, and I'm using that term charitably as well. I'm deferring to I d I o t at this point

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...late-1.4091164

    "I'm very disappointed that they're going to take my plate away from me. I struggled to figure it out and, I don't know, it's not very good. I'm upset and hurt," said Troller.

    How the hell would he be "struggling to figure it out" How did this guy manage to screw the licence plate on? "hurt"? How about the personalized term is all about hurt for first nations peoples, and impacts differently. Figure it out yet?


    "They said that it was hurting other people and I didn't understand why because looking at the plate, and being a fan of the TV show Star Trek"

    He still didn't get it. Because he lives in Star Trek universe, not, you know, Manitoba, with a high first nations population, a province with a first nations name, and a buffalo on it. Maybe he see's Borgs on his way to the collectors store, I dunno..


    "and being a fan of the TV show Star Trek, I don't see anything there that would hurt anybody. If you were a fan you would understand it," said Troller."


    Now this is the kicker. In his deluded perspective its OK because the only possible interpretation of the term could be Star Trek....this is the apparent mental perspective we're dealing with. How about this one. "If you were first nation you would understand why the term is offensive. You should anyway if you have even the slightest compassion or comprehension.
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-04-2017 at 12:45 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  13. #413

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    Lets play count the bigots in Calgary, wow.

    https://www.facebook.com/yycherald/p...58654284070077

    Read the comments.

    Prejudice alive and well.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  14. #414

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    Assimilate is a process that would be invoked within any "culture", hence the formation of a culture.


    The theorist Geert Hofstede developed an over-arching theory of cultures that, with some additions from other theorists, includes five dimensions. They are:

    Individualism vs. Collectivism: The degree to which the unit of personal identification is with the self/individual or with the collective (family, group, nation, etc)

    Power Distance: The level of the expected inequality between those who hold power in the group and those who do not

    Uncertainty Avoidance: The degree to which members of the culture are comfortable with ambiguous situations and can tolerate uncertainty

    Achievement Orientation vs. Relationship Orientation: The degree to which achieving goals, success, etc, versus interconnections among people are prioritized

    Long-term vs. Short-term Orientation: The degree to which long-term concerns versus short-term concerns are prioritized

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8260356
    Last edited by KC; 30-04-2017 at 01:40 PM.

  15. #415

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    Demographics define assimilation.

    "Real Canadians" who cannot reproduce enough to keep their economy going have no right to demand assimilation from those they import to do their work for them. This goes double for basement-dwelling nerds.

    And certainly not from those who were here before the "Real Canadians" and who despite all the best efforts to the contrary are once again beating "Real Canadians" at reproduction.

    It is high time for "Real Canadians" to assimilate at long last.

    Multiply or shut up.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 30-04-2017 at 02:28 PM.

  16. #416

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Demographics define assimilation.

    "Real Canadians" who cannot reproduce enough to keep their economy going have no right to demand assimilation from those they import to do their work for them. This goes double for basement-dwelling nerds.

    And certainly not those who were here before the "Real Canadians" and who despite all the best efforts to the contrary are once again beating "Real Canadians" at reproduction.
    Not demographics. They are what they are. Those that hold the power decide what conditions are required to maintain economic growth as they define it and set the degree of support for domestic population increases as well as immigration levels.

    The desire for population increases is also a pervasive and generally uncontested belief which is both at odds with, and aligns with, numerous other desires such as increasing ones standard of living, etc. - all as defined by various agents in society.
    Last edited by KC; 30-04-2017 at 01:52 PM.

  17. #417

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    So, AShetsen, can you provide me with a clearer picture of your beliefs regarding where 'we' ideally should all going in the future?

  18. #418

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    ^I generally try not to deal in shoulds with respect to society as a whole. It will move wherever demographic trends move it, regardless of anyone's efforts.

  19. #419

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    Well folks . A solution that doesn't involve wishing vengeful death on one another.

  20. #420

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    Yes, clearly, if a normal word like "assimilate" makes someone think of something bad, the word needs to be censored outlawed.

    The rules that people to choose to enforce in this country are stupid.

  21. #421

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    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?

    You really going to play this words mean nothing game. Holocaust? Does that word mean nothing?

    What has happened to first nations peoples in this country before my lifetime, in my lifetime, and that continues to occur today is a disgrace. With Assimilate being the most offensive concept known to those peoples. If you don't comprehend that fine, you won't understand the issue. That people don't know the history, and how this word would have the terrible connotation it has with first nations peoples is inexcusable though. You reside in this country and you don't know this?

    I'll give a hint. Cultural assimilation was the term used when First nations people were prohibited from practicing their spirituality, culture, when kids were scooped, when kids were put in residential schools. How do you think that nation would feel about this word?

    Maybe this will help educate;

    http://caid.ca/assimilation_policy.html
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-04-2017 at 09:46 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  22. #422

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You really going to play this words mean nothing game.
    No, that's not the game we're playing. But I am happy to play the "most words have many different contexts", and the "not everything is an attack against you" games.

    "Assimilate" is a neutral word. And the rest of the world shouldn't bend merely because someone wants to play "victim" and interpret that neutral word as some kind of a personal attack against them.

  23. #423

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    It is high time for "Real Canadians" to assimilate at long last.

    Multiply or shut up.
    "Real Canadians" go to Superstore. Buying "President's Choice" is the way towards citizenship.

    BTW, the First Nations people of Canada are the only "Real Canadians" ITHO

    "Assimilate" first meaning is to learn, take in information and understand fully. Something that is clearly lacking by many.

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  24. #424

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You really going to play this words mean nothing game.
    No, that's not the game we're playing. But I am happy to play the "most words have many different contexts", and the "not everything is an attack against you" games.

    "Assimilate" is a neutral word. And the rest of the world shouldn't bend merely because someone wants to play "victim" and interpret that neutral word as some kind of a personal attack against them.
    "play victim" ?!

    Obvious where you are coming from on this issue. Lets play blame game for 10 pts.

    No, Assimilate, obviously, is not a neutral word for First Nations peoples whatever your meaning is of word neutrality.

    Next, how do you get to define what the world "should" do?

    To YOU the word is neutral. I'm guessing Caucasian male, and unaffected by the systemic policy that killed first nations family, heritage, memories and ripped them apart. My lord, how could that not be an indelibly offensive term?

    Assimilation was a direct attack on first nations peoples and against all first nations peoples. It isn't made up, it was the invoked cultural genocide policy of Canada.
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-04-2017 at 11:14 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  25. #425

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    assimilate when they slap a chip in your brain just to keep a job for humans become obsolete . Maybe we can download and play Thomas the train ...Choo Choo!
    Last edited by champking; 01-05-2017 at 12:40 AM.

  26. #426

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Assimilation was a direct attack on first nations peoples and against all first nations peoples. It isn't made up, it was the invoked cultural genocide policy of Canada.

    That is true.

    It is also not a reason to ban, censor, or get upset at the word.

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.

  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    I would imagine that there are a lot of people, especially among non-western immigrant communities, who wouldn't get the reference to "the borg". From what I've seen, in South Korea the Star Trek TV series are not widely known at all, and the movies didn't get much attention until the last two, and even then didn't penetrate the public consciousness the way Pirates Of The Caribbean or Harry Potter has.

  29. #429

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    I don't get it, assimilation is a perfectly normal thing. My father on moving from Netherlands to New Zealand, assimilated. He change is behavior. He learned English, he starting watching rugby and cricket. As to the "the term was used badly against first nations", well it can just as easily be used favorably, all Canadians should assimilate more into first nation culture, learn some of the language, learn about local tribes. In this case though, clearly its a star trek reference, the whole thing is silly.

  30. #430

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    If this licence plate is all of a sudden so bad how did it get past the licence plate police. The plate has to be approved by MVB before it is made. Same for all personalized licence plates. If it got past the vetting process then it should be allowed. Same as the guy who had the plate GRABHER, it was his surname for cripes sake. Talk about insulting him and his birthright.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  31. #431

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    1) Do you really think exposure to the show is universal? Or even required to have an understanding of the term.

    2) In which universe (sorry) does Star Trek pre-empt real world application and use? First Nations peoples have a defined, and all too tragic understanding of how this term has been applied. Of course they could be offended with the term.

    3) Symbolism. We are the borg, resistance is futile, could be transposed to white people being the borgs and making the rules and that resistance is futile. A translation that wouldn't escape First Nations peoples or others.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2017 at 10:20 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  32. #432

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    If this licence plate is all of a sudden so bad how did it get past the licence plate police. The plate has to be approved by MVB before it is made. Same for all personalized licence plates. If it got past the vetting process then it should be allowed. Same as the guy who had the plate GRABHER, it was his surname for cripes sake. Talk about insulting him and his birthright.
    fyi I defended the Grabher licence plate because it was obviously just a personalized surname. I've stated that clearly.

    This situation I look at much differently. There is nothing wrong, or inconsistent with having a nuanced or case by case view on such things. This current example, especially in Truth and Reconciliation times is NOW found to be offensive. Basically because our society has bothered to now look at first nations peoples voice and concerns. That the licence plate was approved prior was either oversight, which can easily happen, or evidence of what has changed in understanding in even 2yrs.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  33. #433

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    I don't get it, assimilation is a perfectly normal thing. My father on moving from Netherlands to New Zealand, assimilated. He change is behavior. He learned English, he starting watching rugby and cricket. As to the "the term was used badly against first nations", well it can just as easily be used favorably, all Canadians should assimilate more into first nation culture, learn some of the language, learn about local tribes. In this case though, clearly its a star trek reference, the whole thing is silly.
    It was normal until 5-10 years ago, now it's racist or sexist or something. It's the same with the reaction to Trump's position on illegal immigration. Up until 5-10 years ago it was a very mainstream centrist point of view.

  34. #434

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    I would imagine that there are a lot of people, especially among non-western immigrant communities, who wouldn't get the reference to "the borg".

    Oh well. If it hurts someone's feelings, they can ask someone else who can kindly explain the context in the fictional and fun TV show that it references.

  35. #435

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Assimilation was a direct attack on first nations peoples and against all first nations peoples. It isn't made up, it was the invoked cultural genocide policy of Canada.

    That is true.

    It is also not a reason to ban, censor, or get upset at the word.
    That would be easy for you to say.

    This is the apparent difficulty with understanding in modern times and wherein such complex societal objectives as Truth and Reconciliation are required to illuminate, educate, inform on the atrocities that have occurred in this nation and providing a path for reform, acknowledging, understanding.

    Assimilation is STILL occurring. Child Scoop STILL occurring. But disproportionate scoops of First Nations and Metis children from homes are now called apprehensions. With the vast majority of those going to non culturally similar placements. Even when kinship care is available.

    I'm playing advocate, and I have no difficulty doing that, and clearly, even though I am not directly impacted by it, I try to put myself in others shoes and think about how they would be impacted. In this sense the term offends me and I can easily see how it would offend first nations that were directly targeted.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  36. #436

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    3) Symbolism. We are the borg, resistance is futile, could be transposed to white people being the borgs and making the rules and that resistance is futile. A translation that wouldn't escape First Nations peoples or others.

    If we are now policing "symbolism" and "poor translation" because something taken out of context hurts a person's feelings, then nothing at all is safe from accusations of racism or discrimination.

  37. #437

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    I would imagine that there are a lot of people, especially among non-western immigrant communities, who wouldn't get the reference to "the borg".

    Oh well. If it hurts someone's feelings, they can ask someone else who can kindly explain the context in the fictional and fun TV show that it references.
    Assimilation. Such fun. Get ripped from your crying mothers arms for no reason other than practiced cultural genocide. See you mother screaming why, why, as you are torn away from her along with your siblings and never see her, or know where she is again for the rest of your life. You are 3 years old and all you realize is the tragedy of you and your siblings, your culture, your home, your society and nation being ripped from you and carted off to white mans land and always being different, never being understood, always being disconnected from anybody you value, or anything you value.

    Lets play that game, such fun.

    Its easy to see why you wouldn't be offended. Some of your statements preclude any comprehension or compassion for how others have been impacted by assimilation.

    You don't get to speak for those people. Thankfully.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2017 at 10:36 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #438

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    3) Symbolism. We are the borg, resistance is futile, could be transposed to white people being the borgs and making the rules and that resistance is futile. A translation that wouldn't escape First Nations peoples or others.

    If we are now policing "symbolism" and "poor translation" because something taken out of context hurts a person's feelings, then nothing at all is safe from accusations of racism or discrimination.
    Its not necessary for it to be symbolic for the term assimilation to be offensive to First Nations peoples. It was a sidebar argument that people could conceivably even see it as symbolic and part of the context of assimilation. It isn't a necessary construct for people to find the term offensive.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #439

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    If this licence plate is all of a sudden so bad how did it get past the licence plate police. The plate has to be approved by MVB before it is made. Same for all personalized licence plates. If it got past the vetting process then it should be allowed. Same as the guy who had the plate GRABHER, it was his surname for cripes sake. Talk about insulting him and his birthright.
    fyi I defended the Grabher licence plate because it was obviously just a personalized surname. I've stated that clearly.

    This situation I look at much differently. There is nothing wrong, or inconsistent with having a nuanced or case by case view on such things. This current example, especially in Truth and Reconciliation times is NOW found to be offensive. Basically because our society has bothered to now look at first nations peoples voice and concerns. That the licence plate was approved prior was either oversight, which can easily happen, or evidence of what has changed in understanding in even 2yrs.
    'ASIMIL8" is a niche plate. The fans of Star Trek will get the meaning especially with the captions surrounding the plate. Have you not thought that there could be thousands of native Americans out there who are big fans of Star Trek. Or even new immigrants who like the show and get the meaning. Not everyone is offended by it. Some people just see it for what it is. A personalized plate for someone who its a Star Trek fan. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  40. #440

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    I oppose censoring a benign quote from a fictional (and incredibly popular) science fiction show because somebody first misses the true reference, and then stretches it to think that it is a slight against them. It's not always a bout you. The word "assimilate" is a neutral word. Somebody else projecting all kinds of their own insecurities and interpreting symbolism and metaphor into it to make it insulting against them is really their own problem to deal with, not the rest of the world who uses that perfectly acceptable word in every day language all the time.

  41. #441

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    Clearly the only way to settle this is to get Aboriginals to produce a list of words that are "offensive" to them and that nobody else in the country is allowed to use.

    "Assimilate" is the first banned word that nobody can use again.

  42. #442

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Cleansing is a normal word. Does that make it contextually nothing bad with Ethnic attached?
    So then why is "ASIMIL8" bad when it is framed with "WE ARE THE BORG"? The Star Trek context is very clear, only someone who has never seen the show could think otherwise.
    If this licence plate is all of a sudden so bad how did it get past the licence plate police. The plate has to be approved by MVB before it is made. Same for all personalized licence plates. If it got past the vetting process then it should be allowed. Same as the guy who had the plate GRABHER, it was his surname for cripes sake. Talk about insulting him and his birthright.
    fyi I defended the Grabher licence plate because it was obviously just a personalized surname. I've stated that clearly.

    This situation I look at much differently. There is nothing wrong, or inconsistent with having a nuanced or case by case view on such things. This current example, especially in Truth and Reconciliation times is NOW found to be offensive. Basically because our society has bothered to now look at first nations peoples voice and concerns. That the licence plate was approved prior was either oversight, which can easily happen, or evidence of what has changed in understanding in even 2yrs.
    'ASIMIL8" is a niche plate. The fans of Star Trek will get the meaning especially with the captions surrounding the plate. Have you not thought that there could be thousands of native Americans out there who are big fans of Star Trek. Or even new immigrants who like the show and get the meaning. Not everyone is offended by it. Some people just see it for what it is. A personalized plate for someone who its a Star Trek fan. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Some first nations peoples would find the term extremely offensive because to them, it is a traumatic term. That's all that's required in understanding this issue. If a person had a personalized licence plate that said pedophile, but maybe it was spelled peddyfile or some such inside joke on some obscure program would that not, still, be considered offensive, or triggering?

    What is necessary is for people not understanding the ruling is how people are impacted or effected by such triggering terms. Not to assume that their being impacted is ridiculous. Very clearly, obviously, the word assimilate would be a clear trigger for First Nations peoples.

    Lets say Southpark, or some show that ignores any bounds of what could be offensive does an episode on the Holocaust. The episode is called resistance is futile, get in the chambers. Somebody driving around with a licence plate Holocaust, resistance is futile.

    That wouldn't be offensive..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  43. #443

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    If somebody gets their feelings hurt by seeing a word, the solution isn't to remove the use of the word.

  44. #444

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I oppose censoring a benign quote from a fictional (and incredibly popular) science fiction show because somebody first misses the true reference, and then stretches it to think that it is a slight against them. It's not always a bout you. The word "assimilate" is a neutral word. Somebody else projecting all kinds of their own insecurities and interpreting symbolism and metaphor into it to make it insulting against them is really their own problem to deal with, not the rest of the world who uses that perfectly acceptable word in every day language all the time.
    The word assimilate is not originating from a Star Trek show. Nor is that the primary context or meaning of that word in a country that practiced cultural genocide towards first nations peoples and labelled that genocide "assimilation"

    That is the primary context here, not Star Trek.

    That you even think that "assimilate" could be a neutral word for First Nations peoples precludes us having any reasonable discussion on this. The chasm is too great here. We've stated our points. Neither will be dissuaded.

    "Their own problem to deal with" That just defines your lack of understanding of the issue. The Problem was made, perpetrated by white Judaeo-Christian directive and imperative. The problem was imposed. That's the reality. Even if you don't comprehend that.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2017 at 11:11 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  45. #445

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If somebody gets their feelings hurt by seeing a word, the solution isn't to remove the use of the word.
    So a personalized licence plate that states Pedophile or Child Rapist or I H8 Injuns would be fine by you. Using the extent of your logic on this.

    How about Murderer, or Maniac. You know, just a personalized plate to prevent people from following bumper too closely..

    Please answer yes or no.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2017 at 10:53 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #446

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    Apparently the surname 'Assman" is of German origin. I remember a few years ago Dave Letterman had a guy on who had an 'Assman' licence plate. Nobody seemed offended back in those days. Most thought it rather funny. Now we live in the age of snowflakes who whine for the slightest reason.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  47. #447

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Apparently the surname 'Assman" is of German origin. I remember a few years ago Dave Letterman had a guy on who had an 'Assman' licence plate. Nobody seemed offended back in those days. Most thought it rather funny. Now we live in the age of snowflakes who whine for the slightest reason.
    Not everything is the same, not everything is a comparable. I would find that licence plate humorous. I didn't find the Manitoba licence plate at all humorous.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #448

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    ^Therein lies the crux of the matter. You find something offensive where others don't . You cant be offended for everyone. To me the ASIMIL8 plate more than explains itself for the reason it was being used. If you cannot see that then you are wilfully blind.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  49. #449

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Therein lies the crux of the matter. You find something offensive where others don't . You cant be offended for everyone. To me the ASIMIL8 plate more than explains itself for the reason it was being used. If you cannot see that then you are wilfully blind.
    heh, people CAN have differing interpretations, reactions. That many people HAVE been traumatized by assimilation and that some could be impacted still, by the term, is enough for me. I don't find those people, or their reactions, ridiculous.

    and stop poking me in the eye
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  50. #450

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    I thought from the text of the news on this one that the Start trek plate frame would make it obvious that it was a pop culture reference. Seeing the picture it wasn't clear at all - unless you know what the borg is, and even then it's not at all clear that it's not supposed to be a slightly cloaked political message. Although from what I've seen lately those who are vocal and impolite about demanding assimilation are that way mostly because they don't think that "Resistance is futile".

    It's reasonable to deny this plate, just as it would be reasonable to deny any plate with a political message, whether the message is popular or not, left or right, boring or controversial.
    There can only be one.

  51. #451

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    I am sure just about everyone on this planet has a 'thing' about certain words but we cannot go banning all of them because they upset a few.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  52. #452

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I am sure just about everyone on this planet has a 'thing' about certain words but we cannot go banning all of them because they upset a few.
    Quite clearly, as I replied to MrOIler there are some words that would be automatically offensive and entirely inappropriate for personalized plates which require approval, as a rule.

    The regulation exists, some terms are found to be offensive. Some terms are clearly offensive.

    The difficulty with adopting the "don't censor any word" position is that it ignores that clear lines exist. Even if you stated that position, there would be a word that would be offensive to you and many others. Such words are clearly unacceptable for personalized plates.

    Nor is this a free speech hill worth dying on.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2017 at 11:31 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #453

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I thought from the text of the news on this one that the Start trek plate frame would make it obvious that it was a pop culture reference. Seeing the picture it wasn't clear at all - unless you know what the borg is, and even then it's not at all clear that it's not supposed to be a slightly cloaked political message. Although from what I've seen lately those who are vocal and impolite about demanding assimilation are that way mostly because they don't think that "Resistance is futile".

    It's reasonable to deny this plate, just as it would be reasonable to deny any plate with a political message, whether the message is popular or not, left or right, boring or controversial.
    Yes, its perfectly reasonable in this instance to deny the plate. People are conflating other denied plates, and other messages around censoring and "PC agenda" and applying it to this instance and largely due to the topical nature of this thread. I curiously note the media also doing this. I think its lazy thought. Its quite easy to see why this personalized plate was rejected after complaints. Its a completely plausible decision that is easily defended.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  54. #454

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    I tend to agree with Replacement. The context of words always matters. For instance, at a wedding there are certain words that people wouldn't welcome hearing even if they may reference something quite reasonable if stated in another locale. Society is just funny that way.

    So, given my acquisence, I'm staring to wonder if Replacement needs to seek a new user name. Unfortunately, in a public forum, it's much more ominous and genocidal than "assimilate".

  55. #455

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If somebody gets their feelings hurt by seeing a word, the solution isn't to remove the use of the word.
    So a personalized licence plate that states Pedophile or Child Rapist or I H8 Injuns would be fine by you. Using the extent of your logic on this.

    How about Murderer, or Maniac. You know, just a personalized plate to prevent people from following bumper too closely..

    Please answer yes or no.
    None of these can be personalized plates because they are too long of words, but since you asked, here is my opinion on whether people should be allowed to have these personalized plates:


    Pedophile - yes (although, why someone would want this plate is beyond me)

    Child Rapist - yes (again, why someone would want this plate is beyond me)

    Murderer - yes

    Maniac - yes

    I H8 Injuns - no, because that contains a slang word that is deliberately slanderous/racist/prejudiced (i.e. there is no acceptable neutral use of the word 'Injuns")

  56. #456

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    This silly argument makes me want to get a personalized plate that says CANCER

  57. #457

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If somebody gets their feelings hurt by seeing a word, the solution isn't to remove the use of the word.
    So a personalized licence plate that states Pedophile or Child Rapist or I H8 Injuns would be fine by you. Using the extent of your logic on this.

    How about Murderer, or Maniac. You know, just a personalized plate to prevent people from following bumper too closely..

    Please answer yes or no.
    None of these can be personalized plates because they are too long of words, but since you asked, here is my opinion on whether people should be allowed to have these personalized plates:


    Pedophile - yes (although, why someone would want this plate is beyond me)

    Child Rapist - yes (again, why someone would want this plate is beyond me)

    Murderer - yes

    Maniac - yes

    I H8 Injuns - no, because that contains a slang word that is deliberately slanderous/racist/prejudiced (i.e. there is no acceptable neutral use of the word 'Injuns")
    Thanks, can't say I agree, all the above would be triggers, and would be prohibited from being personalized plates. In answering this question it would seem you are not aware of the type of protocol involved in public personalized plates and their approval. Any of the listed terms would not be approved.

    In the end this is your opinion, and not at all consistent with that which is prohibited.

    Finally and in response to some of your other comments this is not a "removal" of a word from the spoken English language. Its prohibiting a term for a licence plate nothing more. Its not a freedom of speech argument, at least not a reasonable one.

    ps Assimili8 "Why someone would want this that plate is beyond me." see how that works.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2017 at 12:16 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  58. #458

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    This silly argument makes me want to get a personalized plate that says CANCER
    let me know how it goes.

    Alternately you could just choose Eberle. Oiler fans would get the symbolism.

    Some might find it offensive.

    Don't pick Nuge
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2017 at 12:14 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  59. #459

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I tend to agree with Replacement. The context of words always matters. For instance, at a wedding there are certain words that people wouldn't welcome hearing even if they may reference something quite reasonable if stated in another locale. Society is just funny that way.

    So, given my acquisence, I'm staring to wonder if Replacement needs to seek a new user name. Unfortunately, in a public forum, it's much more ominous and genocidal than "assimilate".
    Maybe I should pick persuasive, or Crystal blue persuasion. Or maybe not.

    Replacement is a pun on the "Replacements" movie, or Buddhism.. heh
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  60. #460

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    ^Well, another name I'm thinking might suit would be Anal Retentive, but then, that's just me.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  61. #461

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Well, another name I'm thinking might suit would be Anal Retentive, but then, that's just me.
    Flattery will get you nowhere. Your either getting soft or that's a relatively flattering term for me. Albeit a bus stop short of endearing.

    jk aside for many people its part of their career work to learn and utilize certain traits. Mine requires that I be thorough and clear and in writing. Its habit forming, its become the way I write mostly. In my defense, haha, but there again I'm being too thorough.

    I should pick another job that requires being short and concise.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  62. #462

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    OMG, some of the Duke of Edinburgh's gaffs are just the best, clearly didn't get the PC memo:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39806145

    This is my favorite:

    2001: "You're too fat to be an astronaut." To 13-year-old Andrew Adams who told Prince Philip he wanted to go into space.

  63. #463

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If somebody gets their feelings hurt by seeing a word, the solution isn't to remove the use of the word.
    Well, you are half right.

    There are two solutions:

    1. The word vanishes. The ones using this word remain. That is, they find the discipline, within or imposed, not to offend.

    2. The word is made to vanish along with those who chose to use it.

    On balance, self-discipline is the way to go. That you won't see that is really your problem.

  64. #464

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    ^Not at all, because the word isn't the problem, especially where historical wrongs are involved.

    How many words have we gone through since "Indian" was normal? We've cycled through a half-dozen synonyms for "black" in the past 50 years and I don't think that's really solved anything.

    Vocal offense about words, especially group identifiers, only reinforces ideas of differentness, and the imposition on the vocabulary, as immaterial as it is, can only inspire resentment, not real attitude change.
    There can only be one.

  65. #465

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    Yeah but you answered yourself.

    Its the imposition of the term that is a major issue for the most part. No race or skin color has the right, colonial, imperialist, or otherwise to name other people. But also theres a fundamental laziness at work. Which betrays prejudice from the start.

    For instance Indians, a misattribution to begin with, is a generalized term and apparently because white man couldn't be bothered to even distinguish, or acknowledge the various nations or know and learn them. Nobody calls French people Euros. Its considered significant distinction in that instance to recognize country or nation of origin. Some peoples in the word are afforded this amount of dignity. But it applies far less in the case of Latinos, Blacks, Asians Indians, Indigenous where people apparently can't be bothered to distinguish with the underlying tone being it doesn't matter, the person or heritage doesn't matter enough to be distinguished. Its very unfortunate, and its not innocuous either.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  66. #466

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    Yeah, there's definitely laziness there, but saying "you can't say Indian' didn't make that go away, it's no less lazy to say Aboriginal or indigenous, even if they're not the obvious mistake "Indian" was. People do call Europeans Europeans, euros or eurotrash. On the other hand, more recent movement toward reclaiming actual tribal/linguistic identities seems more healthy.

    And yes, it's perfectly normal for "us" to get to have a word that we call the various thems, even if it's no longer PC for the dominant culture/ethnicity. it's also normal to call yourself something that implies superiority over others.

    The word "Inuit" Means "the people". Our word for germans has no relation to what they call them selves (which incidentally means "the people"), and it's something different again in French. Wales is an English word meaning foreigners. And so on.
    There can only be one.

  67. #467

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    Fareed Zakaria (CNN Opinion): Liberals think they're tolerant, but they're not

    "American universities seem committed to every kind of diversity except intellectual diversity. Conservative voices and views are being silenced entirely," Zakaria said.

    ...

    "The world liberal in this context has nothing to do with today's partisan language, but refers instead to the Latin root, pertaining to liberty. And at the heart of liberty in the Western world has been freedom of speech. From the beginning, people understood that this meant protecting and listening to speech with which you disagreed," Zakaria argued.
    That means, he said, not drowning out "the ideas that we find offensive."

    In addition, Zakaria noted what he called "an anti-intellectualism" on the left.

    "It's an attitude of self-righteousness that says we are so pure, we're so morally superior, we cannot bear to hear an idea with which we disagree," he said.
    "Liberals think they are tolerant but often they aren't," he added.

    No one, he continued, "has a monopoly on right or virtue."
    http://archive.is/60Ude#selection-1019.0-1019.64

  68. #468

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    Now, this is truly offensive.

    I'm not a fan of Griffith, she's more annoying than funny. Not a fan of Trump but he's funny more than annoying.

    Griffith has now been fired by CNN and no doubt there will be more fall out for her. I certainly would not call this comedy. Smacks of desperation to keep your name out there.



    http://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainme...gLE&ocid=ientp

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/30/kathy-...tyler-shields/
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  69. #469
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    She's an i d i o t, and deserves to reap the whirlwind she's caused. The same can be said for Ted Nugent and his 10 year history of vile and literally violent comments towards Obama and Clinton. Yet, strangely, he got an invite to the White House. Weird, right?

  70. #470

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    Agree with both posts. Don't know who Griffith is and could care less. The photo and the idea behind it are offensive. I may not like Trump but this was beyond poor taste.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  71. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now, this is truly offensive.

    I'm not a fan of Griffith, she's more annoying than funny. Not a fan of Trump but he's funny more than annoying.

    Griffith has now been fired by CNN and no doubt there will be more fall out for her. I certainly would not call this comedy. Smacks of desperation to keep your name out there.



    http://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainme...gLE&ocid=ientp

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/30/kathy-...tyler-shields/

    Pathetic. I hear her ad with squatty potty has been pulled. ( how fitting is the name for her! ) She's a D lister at best.Now a - F. I can't stand her on NYE with Anderson Cooper...

  72. #472

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    He's just bleeding "out of his whatever." What's the big deal?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  73. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now, this is truly offensive.

    I'm not a fan of Griffith, she's more annoying than funny. Not a fan of Trump but he's funny more than annoying.

    Griffith has now been fired by CNN and no doubt there will be more fall out for her. I certainly would not call this comedy. Smacks of desperation to keep your name out there.

    http://ll-media.tmz.com/2017/05/30/0...-sheilds-9.jpg

    http://www.msn.com/en-ca/entertainme...gLE&ocid=ientp

    http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/30/kathy-...tyler-shields/

    Pathetic. I hear her ad with squatty potty has been pulled. ( how fitting is the name for her! ) She's a D lister at best.Now a - F. I can't stand her on NYE with Anderson Cooper...
    Ahh, it's just politically incorrect. Typical shock jock stuff. We all have our lines that we feel shouldn't be crossed and then every religious, ethnic, cultural, moralistic, activist group comes up with their own "this offends me" issues.


    Also, I see that it wasn't so offensive that it didn't get posted here.
    Last edited by KC; 31-05-2017 at 06:21 PM.

  74. #474

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    with the picture posted twice...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  75. #475

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    ^ Why bother posting if all you have to say is the picture was posted twice. A picture tells a thousand words but it seems you not a spatial person.
    Last edited by Gemini; 31-05-2017 at 10:01 PM.
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  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^ Why bother posting if all you have to say is the picture was posted twice. A picture tells a thousand but it seems you not a spatial person.
    The book, remember? Cheap Shots .

  77. #477
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    Hard to say which face looks worse.

  78. #478

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    That's the "tolerant" left for you - claiming the moral high ground while broadcasting violent garbage like that.

    I am actually disappointed that she apologized for that. Clearly she wanted to be "edgy" and wanted attention. Well, she succeeded. She should've at least defended the photo and talked about why she did it. It would at least have had some meaning.

    Seriously, if you want to be hateful towards an enemy, be that. If you want to make edgy/savage jokes, then fine. But don't get offended when others do so.

  79. #479

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    I also have to say that I think that Trump's opponents are potentially creating a political supervillain in Barron Trump.

    He is watching - as am 11-year-old child - the media put his dad (and him) through the ringer as he grows up. If this kid wants the media spotlight at all when he grows up and if he gets involved in politics, watch out. He has a billion dollar trust fund behind him and has every reason to go on the warpath against the press and the political left.

  80. #480

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    That's the "tolerant" left for you - claiming the moral high ground while broadcasting violent garbage like that.

    I am actually disappointed that she apologized for that. Clearly she wanted to be "edgy" and wanted attention. Well, she succeeded. She should've at least defended the photo and talked about why she did it. It would at least have had some meaning.

    Seriously, if you want to be hateful towards an enemy, be that. If you want to make edgy/savage jokes, then fine. But don't get offended when others do so.
    Yup. Just like the Charlie Hebdo and other's cartoons of Mohamed, they know they are going to offend people and create a reaction. Yelling fire in a theatre, joking about a bomb in an airplane, etc may all seem silly and prankish but the reactions can be unpredictable.

  81. #481

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    I don't think the Mohammad cartoons are in the same category at all, besides that a reaction can be expected.
    The cartoons make a point and have an important message that you can't have free speech and a secular country if you enforce, or allow goons to enforce, blasphemy laws.

    It's kind of the opposite of the kind of speech and actions that normalize ideas of violence against someone.
    There can only be one.

  82. #482

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I don't think the Mohammad cartoons are in the same category at all, besides that a reaction can be expected.
    The cartoons make a point and have an important message that you can't have free speech and a secular country if you enforce, or allow goons to enforce, blasphemy laws.

    It's kind of the opposite of the kind of speech and actions that normalize ideas of violence against someone.

    VNAF MAMN
    Cartoon that shook the world
    Mahommmed related cartoon Mahommmed ...
    http://vnafmamn.com/cartoon/cartoonreact1.jpg


    In Solidarity With a Free Press: Some More Blasphemous Cartoons

    "...But there are all kinds of pernicious taboos in the west that result in self-censorship or compelled suppression of political ideas, from prosecution and imprisonment to career destruction: why is violence by Muslims the most menacing one? (I’m not here talking about the question of whether media outlets should publish the cartoons because they’re newsworthy; my focus is on the demand they be published positively, with approval, as “solidarity”).

    When we originally discussed publishing this article to make these points, our intention was to commission two or three cartoonists to create cartoons that mock Judaism and malign sacred figures to Jews the way Charlie Hebdo did to Muslims. But that idea was thwarted by the fact that no mainstream western cartoonist would dare put their name on an anti-Jewish cartoon, even if done for satire purposes, because doing so would instantly and permanently destroy their career, at least. Anti-Islam and anti-Muslim commentary (and cartoons) are a dime a dozen in western media outlets; the taboo that is at least as strong, if not more so, are anti-Jewish images and words. Why aren’t Douthat, Chait, Yglesias and their like-minded free speech crusaders calling for publication of ...

    https://theintercept.com/2015/01/09/...ebdo-cartoons/


    Last edited by KC; 01-06-2017 at 10:00 AM.

  83. #483

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Hard to say which face looks worse.
    A comment that was bound to occur. My first thought was how pathetically offensive. The second was that the scariest thing in the picture is old red. The third thought was who is Kathy Griffith?


    But this defines how little restraint and sense of where the line is that the left typically has.


    Don't get your way in an election? State that you're blowing up the whitehouse or take a photo with a beheaded president.


    Remember this is the tolerant left...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  84. #484

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    But this defines how little restraint and sense of where the line is that the left typically has.

    Don't get your way in an election? State that you're blowing up the whitehouse or take a photo with a beheaded president.

    Remember this is the tolerant left...
    Yeah, the effigy-burning & threats of Jim Crow era lynching during the Obama administrations by the right were far, far classier.

    Turns out there's crazies on both sides & it's not really a partisan issue.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  85. #485

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    But this defines how little restraint and sense of where the line is that the left typically has.

    Don't get your way in an election? State that you're blowing up the whitehouse or take a photo with a beheaded president.

    Remember this is the tolerant left...
    Yeah, the effigy-burning & threats of Jim Crow era lynching during the Obama administrations by the right were far, far classier.

    Turns out there's crazies on both sides & it's not really a partisan issue.
    One can find extreme examples on either side. But it is interesting that on the left leaning side so many of the really whacked responses are coming from entertainment figures. Albeit statistically speaking they make up most of the Entertainment industry. The crazies on the the right side tend to be wing nuts in the first place.

    Remember people speaking about Stephen Harper as if he was an alien, that he was evil, that he had hidden agenda's. The left seemingly thought he was not born but incubated in a pod.. That being exactly the kind of purview that is not only voiced from the left, but that its common from the left. With the same thing now happening again in their view of Scheer.

    But we can both agree that political discourse is extremely eroded in present day and with these instances being symptomatic of an all round democratic malady.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-06-2017 at 10:52 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  86. #486

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    ^^^ 'The Left" is not some monolithic thing that decided that this pose was a good thing. Most of "the left" that I've heard from has condemned it. But yes, clueless tactless people are everywhere.

    ^^^^That "Independent" Column seems to disprove it's own premise by publishing a wide variety of anti-Israel and a few actual anti-semetic cartoons that somehow we've never heard of, and from what I can tell didn't result in threats or violence. There were other Charlie Hebdo cartoons published widely online after the attack, it was pretty clear that they were equal opportunity offenders, including Catholic and Jewish targets, among others. It wasn't Jewish or Catholic activists making death threats.
    There can only be one.

  87. #487

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Hard to say which face looks worse.
    A comment that was bound to occur. My first thought was how pathetically offensive. The second was that the scariest thing in the picture is old red. The third thought was who is Kathy Griffith?


    But this defines how little restraint and sense of where the line is that the left typically has.


    Don't get your way in an election? State that you're blowing up the whitehouse or take a photo with a beheaded president.


    Remember this is the tolerant left...
    Selective perception.

    People aren't tolerant- they want tolerance of their own behaviours, inate differences, preferences and vested interests but everyone right or left, whatever that is, aren't tolerant of things they don't like.

  88. #488

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    ^^^ 'The Left" is not some monolithic thing that decided that this pose was a good thing. Most of "the left" that I've heard from has condemned it. But yes, clueless tactless people are everywhere.

    ^^^^That "Independent" Column seems to disprove it's own premise by publishing a wide variety of anti-Israel and a few actual anti-semetic cartoons that somehow we've never heard of, and from what I can tell didn't result in threats or violence. There were other Charlie Hebdo cartoons published widely online after the attack, it was pretty clear that they were equal opportunity offenders, including Catholic and Jewish targets, among others. It wasn't Jewish or Catholic activists making death threats.
    Well the left is currently parked at SJW level of activism as dim and distorted as that tends to be. So its hard not to keep seeing the extremes of it.

    But the key that I'm stating is that the left describes themselves as the voice of reason and tolerance. While invoking murderous intolerance. You don't detect the irony there?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  89. #489

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    Yes, there's a certain level of cognitive dissonance on the far left. SJW is a meaningless term that I wish I would never see again. There is still social just to be fought for, but the SJW term has been distorted as a label for campus activist-type people who might better be called Victim Identity Warriors or Perceived Slight Abolitionists, or something.
    There can only be one.

  90. #490

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Yes, there's a certain level of cognitive dissonance on the far left. SJW is a meaningless term that I wish I would never see again. There is still social just to be fought for, but the SJW term has been distorted as a label for campus activist-type people who might better be called Victim Identity Warriors or Perceived Slight Abolitionists, or something.
    Or present day liberals...

    I'm jk.

    I have more respect than that for the informed liberals and many of whom can substantiate rational argument. But which sadly tends less and less to be a regular part of the political discourse. The left was a great thing under a former Trudeau even if politically I didn't favor it or Trudeaus perspective and treatment of the west. But there's no question the man's mind and what he brought to politics.

    I don't get that level of depth from a present day liberal party that flirted with several questionable leaders before landing on JT. Or a party that was reduced to slim seats and for good reason and that ceased even being the opposition party for awhile. The Liberals had completely lost their way. As a party I think they are still finding it. With the Liberal party there has been a substantive disconnect from former greatness. Despite the named heir incumbency.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  91. #491

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Yes, there's a certain level of cognitive dissonance on the far left. SJW is a meaningless term that I wish I would never see again. There is still social just to be fought for, but the SJW term has been distorted as a label for campus activist-type people who might better be called Victim Identity Warriors or Perceived Slight Abolitionists, or something.
    Or present day liberals...

    I'm jk.

    I have more respect than that for the informed liberals and many of whom can substantiate rational argument. But which sadly tends less and less to be a regular part of the political discourse. The left was a great thing under a former Trudeau even if politically I didn't favor it or Trudeaus perspective and treatment of the west. But there's no question the man's mind and what he brought to politics.

    I don't get that level of depth from a present day liberal party that flirted with several questionable leaders before landing on JT. Or a party that was reduced to slim seats and for good reason and that ceased even being the opposition party for awhile. The Liberals had completely lost their way. As a party I think they are still finding it. With the Liberal party there has been a substantive disconnect from former greatness. Despite the named heir incumbency.
    Well, it seems that every party fluctuates between near greatness and near oblivion. Recall that post Mulroney the Conservatives had some tough times. It's just a group of people formulating a strategy given their own personal biases of the day and a party umbrella of historical ideological legacies, up against the electorates multitude of ever shifting perceptions and realities.

    In the 70s there were all the same-but-different issues. There was the push for multi-culturalism (the right called it the "French Fact" I believe), terrorism (FLQ, air-jacking, the odd domestic bombing), environmentalism (water quality, air quality, food, etc.), population dynamics caused by the commodity boom (possibly played a role with the NEP), rising debt (recall Joe Clark and the broad based fear of rising debt)... PET seemed smart in some ways but foolish in others but his hubris and "charisma" tended to cover up for his failings. (Similar to Churchill with his many failed strategies.)


    Correction: I am way off base on French Fact above. I'll leave my error to highlight my ignorance.

    The Many Faces of the French Fact
    http://www.canadashistory.ca/Explore...he-French-Fact
    Last edited by KC; 01-06-2017 at 02:45 PM.

  92. #492

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Hard to say which face looks worse.
    A comment that was bound to occur. My first thought was how pathetically offensive. The second was that the scariest thing in the picture is old red. The third thought was who is Kathy Griffith?


    But this defines how little restraint and sense of where the line is that the left typically has.


    Don't get your way in an election? State that you're blowing up the whitehouse or take a photo with a beheaded president.


    Remember this is the tolerant left...
    Selective perception.

    People aren't tolerant- they want tolerance of their own behaviours, inate differences, preferences and vested interests but everyone right or left, whatever that is, aren't tolerant of things they don't like.
    The start and the end of it is the left makes a continual claim on tolerance. As if its their domain. While exhibiting murderous imagery in response to the Election of Donald Trump. Further to my own argument this columnist agrees that Griffin's stunt is part of this backlash, that it doesn't occur in isolation, and that the reactionary left swing to the Trump election has veered into the ditch which they castigate.

    http://m.edmontonsun.com/2017/05/31/...trump-hysteria


    noodle made an interesting point earlier that Obama was also the target of such imagery. But the point being that dropping standards to your adversaries level is not befitting for anybody. Particularly the side that claims tolerance as its own.

    its possible to be better than this..



    Still wondering who Kathy Griffin is. How depressing though to be a whack job that will live the rest of your life knowing that the one thing you will be remembered for, the only thing, is being an ***** holding a bloodied mask, decapitated head of a President.

    I accept no apology for the same. This is not an area of apology. She made a mockery not only of Trump but of all the victims of ISIS and other tyranny. Their loss of life apparently being in vain.

    But perhaps apt Griffin public appearances and shows are being cancelled all over the continent and she's toxic now. Rightfully. Its not a mistake to do what she did its insane. This is not a lapse in judgement its insane. But she apparently doesn't even have that as a defense.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-06-2017 at 03:24 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  93. #493

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    Is it the left doing a lot of the cancelling?

    Or did she only offend the right?

    You might find some insight there.
    There can only be one.

  94. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Is it the left doing a lot of the cancelling?

    Or did she only offend the right?

    You might find some insight there.
    Its not a right or left issue. CNN fired her, because what she did was sick.

  95. #495

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    It is her head that ended up on a platter...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Is it the left doing a lot of the cancelling?

    Or did she only offend the right?

    You might find some insight there.
    Its not a right or left issue. CNN fired her, because what she did was sick.
    What she did is terrible. Suggesting someone be killed is rarely the answer. A rare time we agree.

    Although it's ironic it's posted in this thread.

  97. #497

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    ^Sentimental bullpuck.

    To be precise, political assassinations are a terrible idea because they create nothing except chaos and martyrs. Killing Trump would only make the USA worse in every way.

    BUT.

    If people like us (collective us) can celebrate the murders of Saddam Hussein, Moammar Khaddafi, and the rest -- and we have -- then certainly others can call for the assassination of an American president they abhor.

    Would any of you be equally offended if the bloodied head were Putin's, for example?

    We can't have it both ways.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 01-06-2017 at 08:55 PM.

  98. #498

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Is it the left doing a lot of the cancelling?

    Or did she only offend the right?

    You might find some insight there.
    Its not a right or left issue. CNN fired her, because what she did was sick.
    What she did is terrible. Suggesting someone be killed is rarely the answer. A rare time we agree.

    Although it's ironic it's posted in this thread.
    No, I think she offended almost everyone.

    So many things in US politics have been over the top and terrible over the last year. I was not really not a fan of the "lock her up" chants either. I think it all sort of escalates and feeds on itself and gets worse and worse. Somehow the US needs to find a way to get out of this destructive partisan cycle - at times it seems a bit like a bad Jerry Springer show where everyone is yelling and throwing things at each other. I don't know how and when it will happen, but I think eventually somehow sensible people will prevail and things will calm down. We don't all have to agree or like each other, but at least lets not get onto killing each other or locking each other up.

    We can argue and disagree passionately and vigorously, but as annoying as we might find those we disagree with politically we should not be talking about physically harming them or doing other things to silence them. I think we are still much more civil in Canada and at this point that is a very good thing. I think a bit less name calling and not being so fast and loose with "facts" would be good ideas too, but perhaps that is too much to hope for at this point.

  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    ^Sentimental bullpuck.

    To be precise, political assassinations are a terrible idea because they create nothing except chaos and martyrs. Killing Trump would only make the USA worse in every way.

    BUT.

    If people like us (collective us) can celebrate the murders of Saddam Hussein, Moammar Khaddafi, and the rest -- and we have -- then certainly others can call for the assassination of an American president they abhor.

    Would any of you be equally offended if the bloodied head were Putin's, for example?

    We can't have it both ways.
    Saddam, Khaddafi, and the rest, should perhaps have been tried, convicted and jailed.

    Not killed. I didn't celebrate their deaths.

    I am not a believer in the death penalty.

  100. #500

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Saddam, Khaddafi, and the rest, should perhaps have been tried, convicted and jailed.

    Not killed. I didn't celebrate their deaths.

    I am not a believer in the death penalty.
    Were you offended when Saddam and Ghaddafi were snuffed amid general gloating?

    Or did you just mildly regret it, if that?

    If you were not equally offended then, please say nothing now.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 01-06-2017 at 09:49 PM.

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