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Thread: Edmonton Central Park

  1. #501

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    but what about homeless shelters, hospitals and care for the elderly? Wouldn't that money be much better used for that?

    I mean, if we spent even a 1/4 of that on a park somewhere else outside of the downtown/Downtown area, you'd be all "Superlab like" again
    Although I somewhat agree with your sentiments that there are more pressing needs for this money, I’d argue that long term, the tax revenue generated over time from the surrounding developments will far outweigh the merits of sinking the money into the community services as an immediate capital expenditure.

    In fact a few months back I ran the economics on it through an excel program. Assuming the park makes the Shift and J108 more economically viable due to saleability at higher price per square foot, that’s 1700 units coming online through two developments and excludes Westrich’s future development and the lots south of the Park on Jasper. It can be assumed the mean pricing across all these units will be conservatively estimated at 350,000 dollars. That puts yearly taxation per unit at around 2500/yr. Net annual tax revenue - original land taxation is about $4.2 million dollars per year. If the park has a 20% cost overrun and puts the pricetag at 40 million dollars, the payback period is rounds up to 10 years; after which the city indefinitely experiences positive tax revenue for services such as homeless initiatives, sewer/sanitation upgrades, etc etc.

    Those are numbers that factor in a very reactionary attitude with a low risk tolerance. The park makes economic sense as much as it does sense for the surrounding community as a destination - considering that I believe these developers were waiting for a yes or no answer on what they’d be building beside.
    Sounds like you're trying to sell me an ice district and arena.

  2. #502
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    I drive or walk by Alex Decoteau park on a daily basis, and from what I can tell it's been well maintained and very well used. Sure, in the depths of winter it and every other outdoor space in Edmonton can look rough. But from what I see, it's been a great success and clearly demonstrates that there was a big need/demand for it.

  3. #503

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    See: Louise McKinney Park. Which the DBA touts on their front page yet IanO claims is too far away for downtown residents.

  4. #504

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The park will be nice on the day it is completed.



    Every day after it will have overflowing garbage cans, weeds and in the winter, covered by brown snow, ice, grit and Tim Hortons cups .

    Zero dollars available to maintain it.

    That's just it. How many of our other parks are in deplorable conditions right now - but here we have 28,000,000.00 just to BUY the space, not design and construct and later maintain (if haha), but seemingly no money for much needed fixes in all our parks.

  5. #505

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    I've never seen more than 4 people in ADP & there's an awful lot of dead grass/sod that didn't take. I walk through during my commute, so around 7 in the morning (understandable there's not a lot of use) and 4 in the afternoon (usually a couple people with small dogs in the "off leash" area).

    The rainstorms have also shown there's some drainage problems with some of the concrete that'll cause issues sooner rather than later thanks to freeze/thaw cycles.

    If it takes $4.3M for ADP, I shudder to think how much the Warehouse Campus Neighbourhood Central Park is gonna eat up.
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  6. #506
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    ^really? While not always busy, like any place, it is well used and at times quite busy between dogs/owners, gardeners, kids playing in the fountain and a few folks reading.

    Contractor is still under warranty...

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  7. #507

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    31 M + 28 M ??... Holy hell.

  8. #508

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    I ain’t selling anyone Meddy. Admittedly I’d have a conflict of interest owning across the street, but if the numbers didn’t work out I’d express concerns about it and criticize. I have problems with the city, in fact these things wer enough to make me move, but a permanent parkspace like this in the core is a good idea socially and economically. That’s just my opinion based off the numbers.

    Also, living right beside ADP I have to ask noodle what time of day he went. Lots of parks here in the lower mainland experience influxes of people, empty some times and packed others. From what I saw living in Edmonton, ADP surprised me with how active it gets during lunch, after work, and on weekends.

  9. #509

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    Wow, there's a big conflict of interest for sure

    I'd sure love a 51 M dollar investment within walking distance of my place too paid for by taxpayers... In another thought, maybe I need to buy a piece of vacant land and just sit on it until the city buys me out.

    And some of you that argue about investment spent in other parts of the city that are promoting this are the biggest hypocrites around.

  10. #510

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    31 M + 28 M ??... Holy hell.
    yeah, and no City response to the Airshow which brings in revenue.
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  11. #511

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Also, living right beside ADP I have to ask noodle what time of day he went.
    As I've stated previously, just up the page: I generally walk through a little after 7 & a little after 4, at least one way each day, though I've also been through in the middle of the day a couple of times as I walk home to grab my car, run errands, pick up lunch, etc.

    It's far more likely I'll run across steely-eyed people with face tattoos than people in ADP on my commute.

    Today it was both, as there were some guys waiting for Alberta Works next door to open.

    I know the plural of anecdotes isn't data & I'd love to be proven wrong, but ADP remains to me the high watermark of "nice idea, poorly executed & it cost HOW MUCH!?" that is far too common in our civic projects, especially in the Downtown Core.
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  12. #512

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Wow, there's a big conflict of interest for sure

    I'd sure love a 51 M dollar investment within walking distance of my place too paid for by taxpayers... In another thought, maybe I need to buy a piece of vacant land and just sit on it until the city buys me out.

    And some of you that argue about investment spent in other parts of the city that are promoting this are the biggest hypocrites around.
    It does make my place more attractive to renters for sure, but I still like to be objective on these matters. I could whine and complain about the loss of sunlight from the coming towers to my area as well, but I know they're in the best interests of the community as a whole. My opinion is mostly based on the economic numbers I ran, the city's expected DROI on this project from what I crunched, and the fact that it gives the community something to tie together with while integrating the surrounding district with a pedestrian oriented connection to various parts of downtown. It's expensive, but it just makes good economic sense in my opinion. Otherwise I don't think we're going to see those developments or tax revenue in the area honestly.

    But that's just my opinion.
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  13. #513

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    We don't see the tax revenue though. None of the tax revenues created through this latest round of "Spending money to make money. In 20 years. Maybe. We hope." will flow into the city coffers until the CRL is done & over with. Due to a number of factors, the momentum created with the Ice District hasn't seemed to really continue, but we need to see constant growth & development Downtown to keep making the payments. So, time to inject a little more of the public money to stoke the fire, yet again. Spending money we can't afford to build infrastructure we can't afford to try and get the scratch together to make the payments we can't otherwise afford, so we could build an arena for a guy who could afford it himself.

    GENIUS!

    Take a look at your property taxes in 2014 for your pad in the Monaco. Now take a look at the 2019. All of that difference doesn't go to the city, it goes to paying off the loan we took out to buy Daryl his vinyl-wrapped stainless shrine to mediocre hockey.
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  14. #514

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    We don't see the tax revenue though. None of the tax revenues created through this latest round of "Spending money to make money. In 20 years. Maybe. We hope." will flow into the city coffers until the CRL is done & over with. Due to a number of factors, the momentum created with the Ice District hasn't seemed to really continue, but we need to see constant growth & development Downtown to keep making the payments. So, time to inject a little more of the public money to stoke the fire, yet again. Spending money we can't afford to build infrastructure we can't afford to try and get the scratch together to make the payments we can't otherwise afford, so we could build an arena for a guy who could afford it himself.

    GENIUS!

    Take a look at your property taxes in 2014 for your pad in the Monaco. Now take a look at the 2019. All of that difference doesn't go to the city, it goes to paying off the loan we took out to buy Daryl his vinyl-wrapped stainless shrine to mediocre hockey.
    I would argue that downtown is more attractive than when I took possession December 24, 2014. Yeah I pay roughly 160 dollars per year more in taxes as part of the CRL, however, much of that money is going into sanitation and infrastructure upgrades. I'd also say that the arena has made for influx populations that have allowed dozens of restaurants in the area to open up. All the old brick buildings in my area that were once vacant now have businesses in them, and roads all around downtown have been repaved since then. CRL money is meant to create catalyzing projects downtown which don't affect people outside the core, but benefit people inside the core, if CRL money is being used as a part of financing this project, then I support the allocation of my tax dollars. Not because it benefits me, but because I feel it will create something special for the area that makes sense (even if it's a long payout period as you expect).
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    See: Louise McKinney Park. Which the DBA touts on their front page yet IanO claims is too far away for downtown residents.
    LMP is so embarrassing. Garbage, weeds, syringes, condoms, clothes, an abandoned bike, gravel and sand, dead leaves from years past. Disgusting.

  16. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I would argue that downtown is more attractive than when I took possession December 24, 2014. Yeah I pay roughly 160 dollars per year more in taxes as part of the CRL, however, much of that money is going into sanitation and infrastructure upgrades.
    Wait, your property taxes are only $160 more now than in 2014?

    Mine went up double that this year alone.
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  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    31 M + 28 M ??... Holy hell.
    Land in the centre of the centre part of the city costs money, about $215/sqft for 1.2Ha or 130000 sqft.

    To develop that to a very high standard such as what we expect here, it will be another 215/sqft or so in costs.

    This is not going to be your average park space folks, but rather something special, something that is going to be a game changer for the Downtown, its residents, workers, visitors.
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  18. #518

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    How many game changers do you need downtown?

    If this type of money was spent any where else, you would be livid.

    in a city that cant even maintain its existing park space, we dont need this ‘game changer’ we need to make right with what we have before we start adding more stuff we will neglect.

    theres some unimproved/vacant lots here in the SW. Maybe we can have 51 million dollars for a game changer too. We have way more residents than downtown too.

  19. #519
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    Last time I checked there have been a few parks, rec centres etc. that are collectively a few billion...
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  20. #520

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    Those rec centers are widely used by the whole city, including the kinsmen center a few minutes away from you, or commonwealth, a quick train ride away...

    Last time I checked, there was already a few parks including the park you consider your backyard... the river valley right outside your door.
    Last time I checked, there's been arenas, museums, LRT, parks, other parks, renos to the library, and billions of dollars of investment in downtown...


    YET WE STILL CAN'T MAINTAIN THE PARKS WE HAVE...

    Why do we need this park? Beaverhills is 1 block away. The river Valley is 2 blocks south.

    51,000,000.00 Dollars.... in the middle of a recession, where we have a major homeless problem, we can't afford to maintenance on our existing stuff, programs are being cut left and right by city hall...


    but yet, Downtown needs a new park, open the funding flood gates!!!!

    FFS

  21. #521

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    I dont have a problem with this park IF we could maintain our already existing parks to the proper level. 51 Million dollars is a big amount of money to throw at park space. I don't care if its the greatest park on earth when we neglect to maintain our existing parkspaces to an acceptable level, any money spent towards new parks is just bloody stupid... and so Edmonton.

  22. #522

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    Why are you yelling at us?

  23. #523

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    Emphasizing the point. Sorry if I have easily offended you.

    We are about to spend more money on a single park than the yearly operation budget that the city has for parks!

  24. #524

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    Stevey is both a sensitive snowflake concerned about yelling on the internet, while simultaneously callous & unconcerned about crime/violence on our streets.

    Nice priorities, bro.
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  25. #525
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    This is a legacy project folks... and perhaps the most important project for our Downtown.
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  26. #526

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This is a legacy project folks... and perhaps the most important project for our Downtown.
    a legacy of debt and neglect? Most important project until the next brainstorm comes through? I mean, a few years back, you pretty much said the same thing about Katz taxpayer funded arena that only he profits from...

  27. #527
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    That was the most important project of its time... there will be others.
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  28. #528

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    The park is part of the catalyst projects identified in the award-winning 2010 Capital City Downtown Plan.

    It is being paid for by taxpayers in the CLR, which is a geographic area of Downtown.

    Developers, including Edgar Developments 'The Shift' that is before City Council today, said the park is a critical part of their decision to develop in the area, most of the land which is not collecting the tax revenue is could given the zoning. Some of the uplift in zoning is being contributed by developers to complete some of the needed streetscaping.

    Future tax revenue from high-density projects adjacent to the park does go into general revenues, but is more than enough justification to maintain this park.
    Last edited by GreenSPACE; 06-06-2019 at 11:27 AM.
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  29. #529

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    That was the most important project of its time... there will be others.
    I think one 9-figure handout to enrich a plutocrat is enough.
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  30. #530

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    Future tax revenue goes to the crl not to general revenue... a crl from the arena funded and financed from city coffers...

  31. #531

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    Essentially, the city borrowed $600 million to build the arena for a private business. Then, any increase in property taxes can only be used to pay off the arena and pay for projects within a very small part of the city.

    As IanO says "As goes downtown, so goes your city." In other words, don't worry about anything outside of downtown, it doesn't matter.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 06-06-2019 at 12:16 PM.

  32. #532

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    ^^Only until the CRL is paid back, which is ahead of schedule and determined by how much is borrowed.

    Whether or not the CRL exists, less than 1% infrastructure of budget is spend on Downtown, almost everything is being paid for my the CRL at the moment, which means the City can afford things in other areas.
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  33. #533

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    Should all the tax revenue from West Edmonton Mall be spent only in West JP?

    Does Mill Woods get to claim SEC and the industrial areas?

  34. #534
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    Has a vision for this park been decided yet? If not, I'd like to put my idea out into the universe.

    How about we use this as a casual Edmonton Arts Walk Of Fame? Not a big gallery or anything crazy at all. I'm thinking of multiple paths, benches, etc as was likely anyway, but every so often you'd come across a statue of John Candy & the SCTV gang, or Leslie Neilson, etc. If he's got a sense of humour there could even be a Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavillion, as Lauren from Sonic 102.9 has proposed. Maybe also a nod to the Wolverine statue idea that was going around a few years ago.

    Room for growth over time as actors/musicians rise to fame. A casual destination, not just fountains and benches. It could even be a Fringe venue pretty easily.

  35. #535

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Has a vision for this park been decided yet? If not, I'd like to put my idea out into the universe.

    How about we use this as a casual Edmonton Arts Walk Of Fame? Not a big gallery or anything crazy at all. I'm thinking of multiple paths, benches, etc as was likely anyway, but every so often you'd come across a statue of John Candy & the SCTV gang, or Leslie Neilson, etc. If he's got a sense of humour there could even be a Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavillion, as Lauren from Sonic 102.9 has proposed. Maybe also a nod to the Wolverine statue idea that was going around a few years ago.

    Room for growth over time as actors/musicians rise to fame. A casual destination, not just fountains and benches. It could even be a Fringe venue pretty easily.
    I like this, how about a 10 metre tall statue of Tommy Chong?

  36. #536

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    ^^It is a District Park, City admin is stetting out the criteria for the international competition this fall.
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  37. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Has a vision for this park been decided yet? If not, I'd like to put my idea out into the universe.

    How about we use this as a casual Edmonton Arts Walk Of Fame? Not a big gallery or anything crazy at all. I'm thinking of multiple paths, benches, etc as was likely anyway, but every so often you'd come across a statue of John Candy & the SCTV gang, or Leslie Neilson, etc. If he's got a sense of humour there could even be a Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavillion, as Lauren from Sonic 102.9 has proposed. Maybe also a nod to the Wolverine statue idea that was going around a few years ago.

    Room for growth over time as actors/musicians rise to fame. A casual destination, not just fountains and benches. It could even be a Fringe venue pretty easily.
    I like this, how about a 10 metre tall statue of Tommy Chong?
    10m would be intense, but definitely Tommy Chong warrants a space.

  38. #538
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    I hope something nice comes out of all this. I wouldn't call it Central Park though, as like the "World Trade Center", even though it is a franchise, it conjures up visions of NYC. Use it as a working title, sure, but hopefully something difference comes of it...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  39. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This is a legacy project folks... and perhaps the most important project for our Downtown.
    Legacy and most important are a stretch (at best).

    Still, it's a parcel the city realizes isn't likely to be developed beyond gravel, surface parking lots for a long, long time.

    So, it's a nice addition, and paid for by surplus CRL $$$

    Think what you will of DT and whatever $$ get spent here (mostly for LRT and bike lanes, pathetic little for sidewalks or roads), ...

    There's 13k folks live in this little neighbourhood with no sports fields and few pocket parks (oddly enough, both on 105 St. - a block apart - but I digress).

    Oh and, that mammoth multi-million dollar taxpayer paid rec centre in DT is where again? Can't seem to find it.

    Be kinda nice to have the burbs pay for a huge indoor swimming pool, fitness facility, running track just down the road for my personal use.

    I'm actually surprised the city has acquired all the lots and is this far along. There's lots Mayor Bicycle and Councillor Hipster get wrong. This though, I kind of like.
    ... gobsmacked

  40. #540

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    Aboriginal name. End of story.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  41. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This is a legacy project folks... and perhaps the most important project for our Downtown.
    Legacy and most important are a stretch (at best).

    Still, it's a parcel the city realizes isn't likely to be developed beyond gravel, surface parking lots for a long, long time.

    So, it's a nice addition, and paid for by surplus CRL $$$

    Think what you will of DT and whatever $$ get spent here (mostly for LRT and bike lanes, pathetic little for sidewalks or roads), ...

    There's 13k folks live in this little neighbourhood with no sports fields and few pocket parks (oddly enough, both on 105 St. - a block apart - but I digress).

    Oh and, that mammoth multi-million dollar taxpayer paid rec centre in DT is where again? Can't seem to find it.

    Be kinda nice to have the burbs pay for a huge indoor swimming pool, fitness facility, running track just down the road for my personal use.

    I'm actually surprised the city has acquired all the lots and is this far along. There's lots Mayor Bicycle and Councillor Hipster get wrong. This though, I kind of like.
    There's a relatively new taxpayer paid rec centre at Commonwealth, which is about as close to downtown as I am to the nearest one in the "burbs". Not to mention the Kinsmen, complete with sports fields. Absolutely these things are necessary, but there are already options (easily accessible via transit) downtown.

  42. #542

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    And the exhibition grounds offer sports field potential. That old NHL arena might have made a nice fitness centre as well. And there’s an old horse racing facility nearby that could be a running track...

    Oh and that old convention centre has some nice indoor soccer potential too doesn’t it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Aboriginal name. End of story.
    You mean Aboriginal Peoples, First Nations or Indigenous Peoples name. Not being facetious, if you want to respect a group, respect a group.

  44. #544

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    Aboriginal or
    Indigenous
    refers to and includes First Nations, Metis, and even the Inuit.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  45. #545

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    Using Calgary as a comparable: 6 parks downtown. To define "downtown" I used google maps. Cut off the Beltline at 9th avenue but including Shaw Millenium in West End and East Village. That is not including Eau Claire or Prince Island Park.

    Now compare to downtown Edmonton. Also using google maps as definition. 2 parks downtown. And Alex Decouteau does not appear as a "green space" on google maps but is counted as one of those two parks.

    So yes we have the river valley and legislature grounds which I love, but Calgary also has many additional parks and green spaces nearby. The point I am trying to make is just because we have green spaces doesn't mean a central park isn't important. I know many people I work with downtown will happily walk a block to eat lunch outside, but are not going to walk across the bridge to Kinsmen or Louise Mckinney. Same with downtown residents walking their dog. The river valley parks can still up be 15-20 minutes each way away walking.

    Edit: And Yes I know there are technically more than two parks in downtown Edmonton with Beatrice Carmichael, Michael Phair, Railtown, Abbey Glen, R.J.W. But they are not clearly marked on google as green spaces. But the fact they don’t even show up on the map does say something…
    Last edited by captain_yosha; 06-06-2019 at 03:25 PM. Reason: clarification about pocket parks

  46. #546

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    ^^It is a District Park, City admin is stetting out the criteria for the legally required open competitive procurement this fall.
    Unspun that for you.
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  47. #547

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Aboriginal name. End of story.
    What's Cree for "money pit"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Aboriginal or
    Indigenous
    refers to and includes First Nations, Metis, and even the Inuit.
    You should include the word Peoples.

  49. #549

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This is a legacy project folks... and perhaps the most important project for our Downtown.
    Legacy and most important are a stretch (at best).

    Still, it's a parcel the city realizes isn't likely to be developed beyond gravel, surface parking lots for a long, long time.

    So, it's a nice addition, and paid for by surplus CRL $$$

    Think what you will of DT and whatever $$ get spent here (mostly for LRT and bike lanes, pathetic little for sidewalks or roads), ...

    There's 13k folks live in this little neighbourhood with no sports fields and few pocket parks (oddly enough, both on 105 St. - a block apart - but I digress).

    Oh and, that mammoth multi-million dollar taxpayer paid rec centre in DT is where again? Can't seem to find it.

    Be kinda nice to have the burbs pay for a huge indoor swimming pool, fitness facility, running track just down the road for my personal use.

    I'm actually surprised the city has acquired all the lots and is this far along. There's lots Mayor Bicycle and Councillor Hipster get wrong. This though, I kind of like.
    Kinsmen Center?
    Commonwealth?

    Both very close, but not quite downtown.

    And so if I hold on to a piece of land downtown and don't develop, can I expect the city to buy me out too? Dangerous precedent being set here for sure. Those land speculators win!

    And yet, we still can't maintain what we have.

  50. #550

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Oh and, that mammoth multi-million dollar taxpayer paid rec centre in DT is where again? Can't seem to find it.
    Maybe DT should have thought about where to spend their rec facility dollars before they kicked in for this & it got value-engineered into pure utilitarian.
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  51. #551
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    In my work I host numerous visiting businesspeople from all over the world. I like to show them around Edmonton, especially the river valley and parks. A couple of days ago I had a visitor from The Netherlands with me, we drove from the south side, over the new 105 street bridge and down River Road. He was appalled and I was embarrassed by the sea of uncut dandelions along River Road and Victoria Park. It was an absolute disgrace. The new park is a great idea but if it's maintained like the rest of Edmonton you might as well not bother.

  52. #552

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain_yosha View Post
    Using Calgary as a comparable: 6 parks downtown. To define "downtown" I used google maps. Cut off the Beltline at 9th avenue but including Shaw Millenium in West End and East Village. That is not including Eau Claire or Prince Island Park.

    Now compare to downtown Edmonton. Also using google maps as definition. 2 parks downtown. And Alex Decouteau does not appear as a "green space" on google maps but is counted as one of those two parks.

    So yes we have the river valley and legislature grounds which I love, but Calgary also has many additional parks and green spaces nearby. The point I am trying to make is just because we have green spaces doesn't mean a central park isn't important. I know many people I work with downtown will happily walk a block to eat lunch outside, but are not going to walk across the bridge to Kinsmen or Louise Mckinney. Same with downtown residents walking their dog. The river valley parks can still up be 15-20 minutes each way away walking.

    Edit: And Yes I know there are technically more than two parks in downtown Edmonton with Beatrice Carmichael, Michael Phair, Railtown, Abbey Glen, R.J.W. But they are not clearly marked on google as green spaces. But the fact they don’t even show up on the map does say something…
    So you use Google's definition of a park? How about Louise McKinney? The Legislature grounds? McKay Avenue school grounds? All within the map of downtown.

  53. #553
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    CBC yesterday reported that the "Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavilion" was getting lots of support as the name for the Central Park
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

  54. #554

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    In my work I host numerous visiting businesspeople from all over the world. I like to show them around Edmonton, especially the river valley and parks. A couple of days ago I had a visitor from The Netherlands with me, we drove from the south side, over the new 105 street bridge and down River Road. He was appalled and I was embarrassed by the sea of uncut dandelions along River Road and Victoria Park. It was an absolute disgrace. The new park is a great idea but if it's maintained like the rest of Edmonton you might as well not bother.
    This. If you contrast Louise McKinney with Vancouver's Stanley Park/Coal Harbor or Calgary's Eau Claire Riverwalk / Princes Islands / Patrick Island, its very sad. But not surprising when you see how many people on this thread whine at any new park or investment in the downtown, seems many on here want downtown to look like a dump to justify why they live in the suburbs.

  55. #555

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    He was offended by dandelions? Lol

    Sorry but I’d rather have dandelions than mass spraying of roundup across the city.

  56. #556

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    Quote Originally Posted by booster View Post
    CBC yesterday reported that the "Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavilion" was getting lots of support as the name for the Central Park
    Since the name Boaty McBoatface was already taken,

    How about, Left of Centre Parkity McPark Parc?
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  57. #557

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    In my work I host numerous visiting businesspeople from all over the world. I like to show them around Edmonton, especially the river valley and parks. A couple of days ago I had a visitor from The Netherlands with me, we drove from the south side, over the new 105 street bridge and down River Road. He was appalled and I was embarrassed by the sea of uncut dandelions along River Road and Victoria Park. It was an absolute disgrace. The new park is a great idea but if it's maintained like the rest of Edmonton you might as well not bother.
    This. If you contrast Louise McKinney with Vancouver's Stanley Park/Coal Harbor or Calgary's Eau Claire Riverwalk / Princes Islands / Patrick Island, its very sad. But not surprising when you see how many people on this thread whine at any new park or investment in the downtown, seems many on here want downtown to look like a dump to justify why they live in the suburbs.
    Moahunter, You are getting the argument wrong (no surprise). We want our existing park spaces maintained before we dump 50 million dollars in to a new park the city will neglect. the issue isn't a new park space, the issue is that we can't maintain what we have, we shouldn't be increasing what we need to maintain if we can't maintain what we already have.

    Those vacant lots have been vacant because the owners want it that way. They were waiting to be bought out by other company or the city... It's sad that the city can't adopt policies like other cities that add taxes to unimproved properties, and takes the other road and just buys out the land speculators.

  58. #558

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    Don't forget that this is also a lovely form of supply-side economic manipulation & amounts to indirect subsidization of the development industry. So it's no wonder that the same crop of chuckleheads who were all in on mortgaging our future to increase the profitability of a billionaire are all for spending a further $50M to prop up the value & reduce the supply of the vacant lots that have been sat on for years.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  59. #559

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    Exactly. It's like a kid crying that they want new toys when they don't take care of the ones they already have. In the downtown boosters minds, the new park will always look like the renders and won't have long grass, weeds, trash cans overflowing, burned out lights, etc.

    And then, once this is built, they'll start claiming that it's too out of the way and demand another new park somewhere downtown.

    How much maintenance could you buy for the additional cost of the fancy sidewalks and still unfinished custom light standards on Jasper?

  60. #560

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    I bet the city parks and recs yearly budget would take 5 years before it reached 50 million dollars, but yet, we have that type of money to spend on a single park?!?! Have you not seen the state of disrepair most of our well used park space is in already? I'm not just talking about dandelions. I'm talking about the facilities in the park such as washrooms and pavillions, picnic tables and all sorts of other stuff in such a state that they are unuseable, and either shut down, or should be completely removed. We have pathways that are closed because the city can't afford to maintain them any more... but yet, Downtown needs a new toy, open up the purse strings...

  61. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Don't forget that this is also a lovely form of supply-side economic manipulation & amounts to indirect subsidization of the development industry. So it's no wonder that the same crop of chuckleheads who were all in on mortgaging our future to increase the profitability of a billionaire are all for spending a further $50M to prop up the value & reduce the supply of the vacant lots that have been sat on for years.
    Edmontonians are a notoriously fickle bunch, that's the reason why new things get built but not maintained, and why old things are left to rot. It's the reason why things cost far more than they should here and no one is held accountable for not doing things properly. It's the reason why things only get 95% done here, because we're so eager to move on to the next thing that we leave what we've built unfinished and "good enough". It's been that way since I moved here, and has not changed that much. This is an Edmonton phenomena no doubt, In my time working in construction in other cities I've noticed far more diligence, care and attention to detail.

    As for this central park, I suppose it's a good idea, it's too bad that this is how it has to come about though. a very, VERY Edmonton way to do things.

  62. #562

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    Don't blame Edmontonians. It is not the fault that millions are spent but garbage cans don't get emptied, noxious weeds grow 7 feet high on city lands, park benches rust away and snow is left on park sidewalks.

    The blame goes squarely on the administration, management and city workers.


    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...g-in-FIDO-mode
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 07-06-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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  63. #563

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Don't blame Edmontonians. It is not the fault that millions are spent but garbage cans don't get emptied, noxious weeds grow 7 feet high on city lands, park benches rust away and snow is left on park sidewalks.

    The blame goes squarely on the administration, management and city workers.
    Speaking of millions spent, it's worth noting that Louise McKinney Park seems not to have received any mention whatsoever in the 2019-2022 capital budget. So while the web pages for rejuvenation projects such as the Urban Beach and Restaurant & Plazas are still active it's likely that no actual progress will be made on LMP during this budget cycle. I like the idea of a central park but it certainly seems to be coming with an opportunity cost.

  64. #564

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I bet the city parks and recs yearly budget would take 5 years before it reached 50 million dollars, but yet, we have that type of money to spend on a single park?!?! Have you not seen the state of disrepair most of our well used park space is in already? I'm not just talking about dandelions. I'm talking about the facilities in the park such as washrooms and pavillions, picnic tables and all sorts of other stuff in such a state that they are unuseable, and either shut down, or should be completely removed. We have pathways that are closed because the city can't afford to maintain them any more... but yet, Downtown needs a new toy, open up the purse strings...
    Nothing new here. As the city grows outward in fits and starts, new but stalled neighbourhoods still need services and so demand and suck away resources from older fully populated but aging areas. Just add the downtown to the list of successful but under serviced and deserving residential areas.

    However, the long term agenda downtown has been to increase the residential population. I think that’s been the plan for maybe upwards of three decades now. So what other infrastructure, facilities, services and lands are needed downtown? And what are we doing to opportunistically provide for them? We seem to have significantly missed the 1980s and 1990s opportunity to buy and expropriate land downtown.
    Last edited by KC; 07-06-2019 at 12:39 PM.

  65. #565

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Don't blame Edmontonians. It is not the fault that millions are spent but garbage cans don't get emptied, noxious weeds grow 7 feet high on city lands, park benches rust away and snow is left on park sidewalks.

    The blame goes squarely on the administration, management and city workers.
    Speaking of millions spent, it's worth noting that Louise McKinney Park seems not to have received any mention whatsoever in the 2019-2022 capital budget. So while the web pages for rejuvenation projects such as the Urban Beach and Restaurant & Plazas are still active it's likely that no actual progress will be made on LMP during this budget cycle. I like the idea of a central park but it certainly seems to be coming with an opportunity cost.
    I would blame the politicians more than the administration on this one. Most politicians love shiny new things, but tend to lose focus or attention when it comes to maintaining existing facilities. If it doesn't involve a ribbon cutting they are not interested. The administration is just catering to the whims of their political masters here. Unfortunately, we have a city council now whose strength is not administration and management.

  66. #566

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    ^^^OffWhyte gets to the nut of it. Actions speak louder than words. Use what you've got.

    Wouldn't programming at LMP help a part of town that's supposed to be a priority? What a waste.

  67. #567

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    It's a priority, just not as high as Downtown.

    The Downtown CRL is predicated on continuous ongoing development in its boundaries. If the growth stops we're gonna have a hard time making payments, especially if we keep frittering away any breathing room on stupid crap that'll just cost us more money.

    "Awwww yeah, I can make the minimum payment this month on my credit card! Now I can spend what's left on whatever I want! WOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO. Hopefully I earn as much next month, but that's next-month-me's problem!"
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  68. #568

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    LMP isn't part of the Arena or Quarters CRLs. So it's OK to ignore it.

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    Petition seeks to honour Edmonton actor in naming downtown park pavilion

    The City of Edmonton announced plans earlier this week to turn downtown parking lots north of Jasper Avenue into a park.

    Warehouse Campus Neighborhood Central Park, about the size of two football fields, will span nearly two blocks from Jasper Avenue to 102nd Avenue and between 106th and 108th streets.

    Now a petition is proposing to name a small building in the park be named "The Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavilion."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...lion-1.5167521

  70. #570
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    Baastard - you beat me to it!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  71. #571
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    ^ I had a rare Friday off.

    I know the petition for "The Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavilion" is a bit tongue and cheek.

    But it is a bad idea to name something after a living person. Just ask Bill Crosby.

  72. #572

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    I thought that it was about time to name it after the most famous group of actors from Edmonton. The SCTV 3rd Season Park.

    In one corner of the park would be a wall covered with a map of the Great White North and a large sofa dedicated as the Bob and Doug McKenzie beer drinking memorial.
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  73. #573

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I thought that it was about time to name it after the most famous group of actors from Edmonton. The SCTV 3rd Season Park.

    In one corner of the park would be a wall covered with a map of the Great White North and a large sofa dedicated as the Bob and Doug McKenzie beer drinking memorial.
    Love it!!!!

    However this idea deserves a better setting, or rather settee.

    Start a threat c2e’s Great Ideas forum and let’s work on this idea!

    http://www.sctvguide.ca/


    SCTV in Edmonton: notes toward an FAQ - Macleans.ca

    “That’s point two, the most important point: namely, the inconceivable miracle of a show being made in Edmonton that became a hip, vastly influential late-night cult success on American network television. A few young Edmontonians, some of them deeply ignorant and parochial, are sneering at the idea of a monument: the show didn’t start here, the people weren’t from here, what does it all mean to us? They don’t understand that SCTV’s international success wasn’t like Corner Gas’s success. SCTV was not only popular, with critics and with a cult audience, but it was more inside and more avant-garde than what Lorne Michaels was creating with Saturday Night Live. It was funnier, as the staffs of both shows tacitly recognized, and it has aged incomprehensibly better. It was the show the SNL writers were watching, the show that made them ask “Who are these guys?” (an acknowledged fear that was eventually expressed in the shameless theft of bits and cast members).”

    https://www.macleans.ca/uncategorize...toward-an-faq/

    SCTV Monument Petition | Avenue Edmonton
    https://www.avenueedmonton.com/janua...ment-petition/


    SCTV Superfan Creates Super Site | Avenue Edmonton

    “Stenson has to update the site with some new info and corrections, but it’s a neat collection. Without it, we wouldn’t know that SCTV‘s “Russian” episode was shot in the McCauley-Norwood neighbourhoods; or that “Neil Simon’s Nutcracker Suite” was shot at the Hotel Macdonald; or that the “ParticipACTION” parody was shot at the corner of Whyte Avenue and 103rd Street, right in front of what is now Hudson’s Taphouse.”

    https://www.avenueedmonton.com/janua...es-super-site/


    Last edited by KC; 07-06-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  74. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Petition seeks to honour Edmonton actor in naming downtown park pavilion

    The City of Edmonton announced plans earlier this week to turn downtown parking lots north of Jasper Avenue into a park.

    Warehouse Campus Neighborhood Central Park, about the size of two football fields, will span nearly two blocks from Jasper Avenue to 102nd Avenue and between 106th and 108th streets.

    Now a petition is proposing to name a small building in the park be named "The Nathan Fillion Civilian Pavilion."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...lion-1.5167521

    Nearly 10,000 signatures so far
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Boy would i love to see some basketball courts in this new park. A buddy and i went to shoot around the other day and neither of us could figure out where a centrally located public court might be. We ended up going to St. Catherine Elementary School on 109th street.

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    Used to be hoops on what used to be 103(A?) Ave in front of Silly Hall.
    ... gobsmacked

  77. #577

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    ^Courts are certainly an option that could be suggested in the consultations starting this fall. I'm personally in favour of some kind of active recreation in this park, whether it's basketball or tennis or whatnot
    www.decl.org

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    this park needs everything. b-ball courts, tennis courts, full sized artificial turf soccer pitch, and an ODR. can't see why it can't happen

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    A multi-use court for ball, soccer, kids riding toys etc. would be great, with a large enough 'green' that it could potentially be used for pick-up soccer and an outdoor rink in winter.
    www.decl.org

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  80. #580

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    It should have telescopes! No, periscopes! No, microscopes!

    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  81. #581

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    It should have telescopes! No, periscopes! No, microscopes!


    That got a true LOL in the office from me!

    Can't wait for my neighbourhood to get a 51,000,000.00 Dollar park

  82. #582

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    Don't be silly Medwards. You're supposed to go downtown for that stuff. You'll get an open field that doesn't get mowed and you'll like it!

  83. #583

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    There a YMCA if you need all those activities. Central Park should be just for sittin' and grinnin'
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    In an ode to surface parking - the one per cent art should be that goofy car at the brewery district.

    Lots of places to sit - in the sun or the shade - Alberta weather being at any given moment appropriate to one of the other.

    Guess a skating rink - or path ala Victoria Park would be okay. Especially as the tall foreheads under the pyramids can't seem to get the City Hall rink open before Easter ....
    ... gobsmacked

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    ...or the Prov in the not so new Capital Plaza as originally envisioned.
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  86. #586

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    I wonder if the City will now just close 107 ST through the park and scrap the 'green street' if the Centre LRT plans get scrapped. I really wouldn't want to see a road through a major park, if it can be avoided.

  87. #587

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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeYEGGreatAgain View Post
    I wonder if the City will now just close 107 ST through the park and scrap the 'green street' if the Centre LRT plans get scrapped. I really wouldn't want to see a road through a major park, if it can be avoided.
    Although I wouldn't either, I'm left a little concerned at the prospect of cutting off #2 Fire Station from Jasper Avenue. Having to make a series of left and right hand turns in a fire struck, or having to go down Capital Blvd. would make response times for the trucks several minutes less.

    I wouldn't mind seeing maybe a single lane road for emergency services crossing through that acts as a pedestrian corridor otherwise.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  88. #588

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    So an outdoor rec centre now? We have way too much money. to waste in this city considering Kinsman is roughly 6 blocks away with amenities mentioned. Is the Leg still providing the water pool for the kids, and, if they do, that will make two competing entities. Listen, I love to have flower bouquets everywhere, but I think we are out of control in priorities now...im still questioning the need for this park.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  89. #589
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    This park is transformational, a rec centre less so given the number of gyms, YMCA, MacEwan fitness (public welcome) etc.
    www.decl.org

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  90. #590

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    In a time when the city should be restraining itself on unnecessary spends and a new recession looming, this park should be completely shelved. We can barely cut the grass in most areas of the city. Spending 51,000,000 on a new park is ridiculous way to reward those who have sat on their properties unimproved for decades
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  91. #591

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    I'm certainly not trying to be negative, but I see parks after parks not utilize period and it is now unsettling for me. Millions for parks and everytime I drive, walk, run, cycle, or rollerblade by, I see no souls in it. It agitates me as that money could be used for something else. If this project fail, somebody better run is all I could say, and you better in shape lol. My instinct does not have high hopes here.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  92. #592

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This park is transformational,.
    Is it really? I guess when you spend over 50000000 on unimproved land it better transform. Id be pretty disappointed otherwise...
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  93. #593
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    CRL dollars folks... CRL.
    www.decl.org

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  94. #594

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    50 million?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  95. #595

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    CRL this... reduce my tax. I challenge anybody to set up a live camera for the park that just finished a block a away and tally the usage. I keep hearing how busy it is but seeing no one! Taking your dog after wordk for a 5 minute 1&2 are not usages. That is an outrhouse of convenience...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  96. #596

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    CRL dollars folks... CRL.
    Tax dollars that can only be spent downtown folks, only spent downtown.

    Yes, it's amazing how transformational it'll be when the legislature grounds are only two blocks away. But, as we saw in the ice district grocery store conversation, two blocks is the maximum distance downtownies should be expected to go for anything.

  97. #597

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    50 million?
    Speaking of which...


    Ottawa promises up to $50M to help build sprawling park on Montreal's West Island
    Project intended to help quell effects of flooding and create more green space on the Island of Montreal

    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante announced the funding for the park in Pierrefonds-Roxboro on Wednesday.

    The proposed park would be Montreal's largest urban park, spanning 3,000 hectares — four times the size of Mount Royal.


    "This is one of the areas most vulnerable to spring thaws and floods in Montreal," a news release from the Prime Minister's Office said.


    Montreal could be doing more to create green spaces, report finds
    The funds come from $2 billion the government set aside in 2017 to help communities withstand damage caused by the climate crisis and extreme weather events.


    "We are thrilled the federal government has confirmed it will partner with us on this project," Plante said. "It shows that the government understands efforts have to be made quickly and efficiently to be resilient in the face of climate change."
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ding-1.5255205

    Montreal park paid for with a CRL on Alberta's wealth. LOL
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  98. #598

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    Can we hear something new from you? I have this statement on recording already.

    I rather that money develope a beach at accidental beach instead. We dont need the park there as the provincial government has their plans nearby I thought. Theyre going to compete with each other is my concern. A beach and a docking platform for boats will activate the convention area including the millions spent on that promenade and the Chinese garden. More parks that no one uses. People want a beach but you guys and your parks... Are these spearheaders prepping for council as those are their last famous choices?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  99. #599

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    50 million?
    28 for land acquisition and 31 to design/build is what has been floated perviously on this thread. Plus ongoing maintenance cost afterwards
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    50 million?
    26 or 28 for land and a good budget for development. Keep in mind that it might be less depending on what they design, but won't be more.
    www.decl.org

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