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Thread: Flair Airlines | Discussion

  1. #201

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    Are the return frequencies the same? I.e. Toronto to Edmonton 3 x daily? Vancouver to Edmonton 19 times weekly?

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunjabiOil View Post
    Are the return frequencies the same? I.e. Toronto to Edmonton 3 x daily? Vancouver to Edmonton 19 times weekly?
    Interesting. Randomly checked July 10 - shows 2X daily return from Toronto.

    But then, user-friendly websites aren't exactly Flair's "thing."
    ... gobsmacked

  3. #203
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    These are the actual frequencies:

    Abbotsford 14x weekly
    Kelowna 7x weekly
    Prince George 2x weekly
    Saskatoon 4x weekly
    Toronto 14x weekly
    Vancouver 14x weekly
    Victoria 7x weekly

  4. #204

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    Kind of surprise that Regina is no where in the scene.

    I hope they stay low fair and find a world Aliance. Here is what they can do.... turn Edmonton into a World hub serving Europe and Asia on the cheap platform. One third of North America ( west side ) is funneled into Edmonton for transfer into Europe or Asia. We know geographically, Edmonton ton is the closes distance. This way they save money on wear/tear of large planes. I'd love to see flights to Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Mumbai, Bangkok, Hanoi. Just a wild idea.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  5. #205

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    I'd like to see them perform well in this country before they start expanding to the States or across the pond. Focus on making it work well here first and then if all goes well, start looking at expanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    These are the actual frequencies:

    Abbotsford 14x weekly
    Kelowna 7x weekly
    Prince George 2x weekly
    Saskatoon 4x weekly
    Toronto 14x weekly
    Vancouver 14x weekly
    Victoria 7x weekly
    Seems like an awful lot of flights to greater Vancouver, no? They are obviously flying where the traffic is, but I would think they would try and spread to a few different markets, rather than have 2 of their 3 highest frequencies be two airports in the same metro area.
    Very interested to see how they continue to expand.

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    I'd like to see them perform well in this country before they start expanding to the States or across the pond. Focus on making it work well here first and then if all goes well, start looking at expanding.
    Narurally you want to be established in phases; I'm just referring to their future ambition.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    I'd like to see them perform well in this country before they start expanding to the States or across the pond. Focus on making it work well here first and then if all goes well, start looking at expanding.
    Narurally you want to be established in phases; I'm just referring to their future ambition.
    If they want to use their fleet effectively, they will need to deploy to southern destinations. They will lose so much money flying only in Canada during the winter.

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    I'd like to see them perform well in this country before they start expanding to the States or across the pond. Focus on making it work well here first and then if all goes well, start looking at expanding.
    Narurally you want to be established in phases; I'm just referring to their future ambition.
    Oh for sure. I just don't want them to get to ambitious too soon and blow their chances at being an option for Canadian travelers.

  10. #210

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    I flew Flair Airlines a couple of weeks ago to Vancouver and back. I really want them to succeed because I think more choice is always good for competition. The flight itself was fine. The plane was clean and the staff were courteous. There are no extras but I'm fine with that for the price I paid which was significantly lower than Westjet or AC.

    My two main complaints are the atrocious website and the unclear luggage policy.

    The website is truly awful. It is slow, not intuitive and seems like it's straight out of 2005. It's not a dealbreaker for me but they certainly aren't helping themselves. It needs a revamp ASAP.

    The luggage policy is also confusing. You get charged more for a carry-on bag vs. checked luggage (you pay for both according to the website) so my partner and I shared a piece of checked luggage to cut the cost a bit. Again, I'm fine with this policy but it seems inconsistent. Many passengers brought carry-on luggage that was not tagged as being paid for. Neither the check-in staff, gate staff, nor on-board personnel checked for paid carry-on luggage. If I would have known this, I would have just brought carry-on and skipped the checked bag altogether. This needs to be resolved or it will really frustrate people and turn them off from flying with Flair.

    Would I fly with Flair again? If it was significantly discounted from Westjet and AC, yes I would. At the same price or a slight discount, I'm not so sure. If they want to compete in a difficult airline market like Canada, they need to up their game substantially and very quickly. I hope they succeed, but things don't look good right now.

  11. #211
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    Website updated as of yesterday : www.flairair.ca

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    All airlines should start charging for carry-on luggage. Or stop charging for checked luggage. Because ultimately, the airplane doesn't care where the luggage is located and the cost impact is the same. And the incentive to jam as much crap in the carry-on bins makes for a worse experience for everyone.

  13. #213

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    I know if you have a small bag like a purse or backpack and it can fit under the seat in front of you, its free on Flair.

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    All airlines should start charging for carry-on luggage. Or stop charging for checked luggage. Because ultimately, the airplane doesn't care where the luggage is located and the cost impact is the same. And the incentive to jam as much crap in the carry-on bins makes for a worse experience for everyone.
    I've read airlines prefer checked baggage instead of carry on (which would explain the higher carryon fees for Flair) because carry on baggage delays flights and ultimately impacts rotation of aircraft for higher utilization.

  15. #215

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    We flew YEG-YYZ two weeks ago with Flair. Flight was about 60% full. We would definitely fly Flair again.

    The kids were wondering why there was no wifi on the plane. But other than that flight left/arrived on time. Service was pretty good. Friendly flight attendants. Bags arrived quickly. No complaints. Always nice when you score a cheap flight when on family travel.

    I encourage all to try them out if their schedule permits.

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Website updated as of yesterday : www.flairair.ca
    Yes, the website looks much better. Hopefully it has made the booking process easier.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    All airlines should start charging for carry-on luggage. Or stop charging for checked luggage. Because ultimately, the airplane doesn't care where the luggage is located and the cost impact is the same. And the incentive to jam as much crap in the carry-on bins makes for a worse experience for everyone.
    I've read airlines prefer checked baggage instead of carry on (which would explain the higher carryon fees for Flair) because carry on baggage delays flights and ultimately impacts rotation of aircraft for higher utilization.
    I think you will see more airlines go this direction. The fight for bin space on full flights is certainly a challenge for passengers and airlines. Charging more for carry-on vs. checked luggage would certainly improve the situation.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    All airlines should start charging for carry-on luggage. Or stop charging for checked luggage. Because ultimately, the airplane doesn't care where the luggage is located and the cost impact is the same. And the incentive to jam as much crap in the carry-on bins makes for a worse experience for everyone.
    *stands up. Applauds*

    I have always wondered why airlines don't charge some of these narcissistic nincompoops a healthy fee for what they do. Oversized carry ons, always shoving their excess crap into bins nowhere near their seats, and my favorite, the last minute malcontent who boards at carrying multiple large carry ons...then demands people move their stuff so s/he can fit Princess Vespa's matched luggage into the cabin.

    The other side is to make checked luggage faster to arrive when you do, as well as not getting lost as frequently. I still check bags even though I can walk without aids now, simply because I don't have to haul my crap around...but the wait at the destination side is often ridiculous.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    *stands up. Applauds*

    I have always wondered why airlines don't charge some of these narcissistic nincompoops a healthy fee for what they do. Oversized carry ons, always shoving their excess crap into bins nowhere near their seats, and my favorite, the last minute malcontent who boards at carrying multiple large carry ons...then demands people move their stuff so s/he can fit Princess Vespa's matched luggage into the cabin.
    Funny, she doesn't look Druish.

  20. #220
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    Great, now I'm watching Spaceballs this weekend.

  21. #221

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    I give them 18-24months before they shut down.
    If they make it to Edmonton, I'll certainly check them out.
    It's been exactly 24 months now since you made this prediction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    I give them 18-24months before they shut down.
    If they make it to Edmonton, I'll certainly check them out.
    It's been exactly 24 months now since you made this prediction.
    Based on what they put out there at the time, I don't regret saying that.
    They did make it to Edmonton, and I have flown with them.
    Route changes/mods seem off the cuff and their website/check in process is still rough around the edges.

  24. #224

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    I didn't mean it in terms of "you were so wrong!", but rather I find it interesting that they have made it so far, because your prediction was not a bad prediction. I'm no expert but it seems to me the airline industry is a tough industry to succeed in.

  25. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    I didn't mean it in terms of "you were so wrong!", but rather I find it interesting that they have made it so far, because your prediction was not a bad prediction. I'm no expert but it seems to me the airline industry is a tough industry to succeed in.
    I think they will have an opportunity to grab market share over the Summer if they market themselves properly and have good service. If they do well over the Summer they might just be able to hang around if they keep their costs low and find a way to compete with AC and WS. I hope they survive but it certainly won't be easy for them.

  26. #226

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    Nicole Weisberg @NWeisbergCTV

    Announcement from low cost Flair Airlines will be “something exclusive to Edmonton; with economic benefits”. Expected to start soon... #yeg

    https://twitter.com/NWeisbergCTV/sta...19110146318336

  27. #227

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    In an interview with the Canadian Press, Flair Airlines’ executive chairman confirmed the headquarters for the low-cost carrier would be moving to Edmonton in the coming months, bringing hundreds of jobs.

    The airline is set to officially announce the move at an event Tuesday in Edmonton.
    https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/flair-ai...r&_gsc=sU3MHVQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    In an interview with the Canadian Press, Flair Airlines’ executive chairman confirmed the headquarters for the low-cost carrier would be moving to Edmonton in the coming months, bringing hundreds of jobs.

    The airline is set to officially announce the move at an event Tuesday in Edmonton.
    https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/flair-ai...r&_gsc=sU3MHVQ
    and here: I might have missed the post elsewhere but in case anyone else missed it:

    "Meanwhile, Tait said Flair plans to move its headquarters to Edmonton from Kelowna, B.C., over the coming months to help promote its growth.

    "Kelowna was a fine base for a charter operator but it didn't really give us the scope, the potential we need as we're growing.""

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/west...unch-1.4711998

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    Makes a lot of sense for them. Canadian North have a maintenance and manufacturing base here as well as a flight simulator. I sure they will contract to Flair. Win win.

  30. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Makes a lot of sense for them. Canadian North have a maintenance and manufacturing base here as well as a flight simulator. I sure they will contract to Flair. Win win.
    Flair is our best shot at getting new flights and becoming a hub airport. If we don't support them as a city, we deserve to be a small regional airport. This could be our Westjet.

  31. #231

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    This is amazing news. I never thought I'd see the day.

  32. #232
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    It’s super, and who knows what it may lead to.

  33. #233
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    This is tremendously exciting. Time for the Edmonton region to develop a fanfare with this airline and really get behind it. Huge opportunity indeed.

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    This is tremendously exciting. Time for the Edmonton region to develop a fanfare with this airline and really get behind it. Huge opportunity indeed.
    I've flown once with them to Toronto and definitely plan to do so more.

  35. #235
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    Excellent news indeed.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  36. #236
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    As a side note, a photo of a Flair 737 in Flair's new livery, shot at YEG is the second most viewed photo today (as of this moment) on Airliners.net. Kind of appropriate given today's big announcement.

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    Very cool news. Aurora cannabis now Flair.

  38. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Makes a lot of sense for them. Canadian North have a maintenance and manufacturing base here as well as a flight simulator. I sure they will contract to Flair. Win win.
    Agreed! It's funny you brought up Canadian North maintenance facility. I wonder if that was the factor to move here? Shared cost and eventually amalgamate into one which i kind of hyppthisized on this strategy quite often? Noth were also heavily involved with FBO fights, so there would have most likely been established communications and worl8ng telations at some capacity.

    Overall, it is great news! Two headquarters willingly move here- both former BC corporates. Perhaps a new office tower to be shared between these two?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  39. #239

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    Two headquarters? Which is the other one you're referring to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Two headquarters? Which is the other one you're referring to?
    I believe it is in reference to both Flair (ex-Kelowna) and Aurora ACB (ex-Vancouver) moving their HQ to Edmonton.

  41. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Two headquarters? Which is the other one you're referring to?
    I believe it is in reference to both Flair (ex-Kelowna) and Aurora ACB (ex-Vancouver) moving their HQ to Edmonton.

    Yes and thank you! Lets hope that trend is on cruise control..
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Makes a lot of sense for them. Canadian North have a maintenance and manufacturing base here as well as a flight simulator. I sure they will contract to Flair. Win win.
    Agreed! It's funny you brought up Canadian North maintenance facility. I wonder if that was the factor to move here? Shared cost and eventually amalgamate into one which i kind of hyppthisized on this strategy quite often? Noth were also heavily involved with FBO fights, so there would have most likely been established communications and worl8ng telations at some capacity.

    Overall, it is great news! Two headquarters willingly move here- both former BC corporates. Perhaps a new office tower to be shared between these two?
    More likely EIA probably gave them a sweetheart deal on space in the old tower.
    Will EIA build a hanger for them to lease?
    If city centre airport had not closed this probably would not have happened.
    In order to fulfill their ambitions of being an airotropolis EIA needs a dedicated airline partner. Is Flairair the answer?
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  43. #243

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    The old control tower makes good sense for Flair office space.

  44. #244
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    ^ Agreed. Started to think that shortly after the news broke.

    Good article in the Kelowna Daily Courier: http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/bu...3a1acc809.html
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    The old control tower makes good sense for Flair office space.
    And maybe finally refurbishment of the north terminal?

  46. #246
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    Well, with all the ULLC chatter, I thought it would be appropriate to do this bit here...

    Out of all the airlines solicited, Flair is the only one working to do something at the Edmonton Airshow. We hoped more would join in. Hopefully, we can announce the whole thing soon.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  47. #247

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    Couldnt be better for them imo. A little " WE ARE ONE OF YOU FOLKS NOW "campaign to remind folks they're now based on this city.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  48. #248

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    Ya, they need to do that because I'm sure a lot of people have no clue and no matter where they want to fly they go straight to westjet.com. A lot of people just don't even look at options. I've even talked to people who flew to London and Amsterdam through Toronto because they didn't know they could get a non-stop flight from Edmonton, and they didn't ask.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Well, with all the ULLC chatter, I thought it would be appropriate to do this bit here...

    Out of all the airlines solicited, Flair is the only one working to do something at the Edmonton Airshow. We hoped more would join in. Hopefully, we can announce the whole thing soon.
    Hurray!! I count 14 major airlines that should have been advertising at the show:
    Air Canada
    Chorus (Air Canada Express, the regional)
    Air Georgian (Air Canada's commuter short haul)
    WestJet
    Encore (WestJet's regional)
    Pacific Coastal (WestJet's commuter short haul)
    Swoop (WestJet Discount)
    Icelandair
    KLM-Air France
    Air North
    Canadian North
    First Air (merger with Canadian North underway)
    Sunwing
    Air Transat

    Air Canada is supposed to get their first CSeries 300 / A220-300 next year. And WestJet will land their first 787s. What a great potential show to launch the products to the public. If only the runway was longer so the plane could get in.

    It won't be long now and Canadian Jetlines will be on the scene too for ULCC.

  50. #250
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    They all should be here....but they're not.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  51. #251
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    Flair is joining Aeroplan along with Porter and Transat
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Flair is joining Aeroplan along with Porter and Transat
    "When flying with Flair Airlines, a Canadian low-fare airline, Aeroplan Members will earn Aeroplan Miles for their flight and ancillary product purchases and have the ability to redeem for Flair flights at fixed-rate fares. The relationship with Flair Airlines will give Aeroplan Members new redemption options, particularly those travelling out of Flair's Edmonton hub, extending from coast to coast and upcoming southern destinations. ....

    For a decade Flair operated as a charter carrier before transitioning to scheduled service in 2017. To consistently offer affordable air travel to Canadians, Flair is focused on key airports, with its main transfer hub in Edmonton and a network that supports seasonal demand."

    https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...690234961.html

  53. #253

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    Porter and Flair together heh? Very interesting! I have stated in the past an almalgation of flair, Porter, Canadian North and Caribou North would make a great solid third carrier.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Porter and Flair are not getting together they both signed up with Aeroplan along with Air Transat.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  55. #255

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    When did i say they were getting together; and what is up with you when i simply make hypothesis, and youre right there trying to tell me no no no. Do you own both airlines, and do you know the course they have chartered for themselves? If you are not then anything can happen cant it?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  56. #256
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    Whatever. You are going on my ignor list you really have nothing useful to say.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  57. #257

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    Each to their own, but it seems the concrete results seem to favor my hypothesis over your contentious statements. You stated in the past, Canadian Norh would never almagamate because they had a great business model. If it it is great, why did they just sold it? The fact that Flair and Porter on the aeroplan signifies an alliance and form of cooperation. Potential alliancs could arise out of that wouldn't you think? At least my model of business is never say no whether you need it or dont need it. Always keep options open, and always transform.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  58. #258
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    Starting to get a little concerned that we haven't heard anything about the Flair winter plans. I know people are looking at booking their Arizona flights and Swoop is an option they are considering.

    Also nothing regarding the 737-800s they were supposed to add to the fleet this year.

    I just want to see these guys have some success given they have decided to set up shop in Edmonton. Perhaps more patience on my part is required.

  59. #259

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    I just booked my first flight on Flair for August 30th to T.O. So far the plane is mostly empty, but it's early still.

  60. #260

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    Took Swoop to Toronto recently and took Flair back yesterday.

    Swoop was way more streamlined and their planes were much better decorated and everything felt new and fresh. Flair you knew you were flying in an old airliner.

    Swoop offered better paid for snacks and also had an app for you to stream content in flight off your smart device. Flair was quite bare bones in their offerings, no media, and you had to pay $10 for a boarding pass - so make sure you have an operation smart phone.

    Interesting to note Swoops allows you to keep plugged in during landing whereas Flair requested everyone to power down their cell phones - not just airplane mode (but obviously no one did).

    All-in-all though, if I'm saving $150+ over WJ and AC, I'd go with either again.

  61. #261

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    I saw a news story a while ago on LinkedIn that Flair is buying some new planes (probably to expand).

    I hope both Flair and Swoop find a lot of success here in Edmonton. It will be good for us!

  62. #262

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    Flair website is showing St Petersburg Florida from YHM and Phoenix Mesa from YEG and YYC. No dates nor prices yet. Guess Flair is not abandoning YHM just yet.

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  64. #264
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    the internet is your best friend...

    https://www.world-airport-codes.com/

    YHM = Hamilton, Ontario

  65. #265
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    HM...Hamilton Munro

  66. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    the internet is your best friend...

    https://www.world-airport-codes.com/

    YHM = Hamilton, Ontario
    Or instead of using airport codes that nobody knows, we could all just use city names.

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    But it makes people feel more worldly. An old aviator once told me that long before EIA became known and the first hanger or two were built they knew it as Edmonton General aviation field. Hence the EG.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 19-08-2018 at 04:55 PM.

  68. #268

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    Thank you for that! Ironically, earlier today, i was wondering how Edmonton got YEG as its code.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  69. #269

  70. #270

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    Wow. 5 new direct flights on Flair Airlines (Vegas, Miami, Orlando, Phoenix-Mesa, Palm Springs)

  71. #271

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    Year round would be awsome.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  72. #272

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    Year round would probably be unsustainable.

  73. #273

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    WER


    We're a hub for them though, so wouldnt they funnel passengers to that hence the inquiry ? Any flight is great nevertheless.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  74. #274

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    Thanks for the interesting link. According to a site linked from the article:

    Edmonton International’s code reflects the city’s military history and comes from the nearby Canadian Forces Base, also called Edmonton Garrison.

    And the "Y" apparently stands for "Yes, there is an airport here". That's almost comical.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Thanks for the interesting link. According to a site linked from the article:

    Edmonton International’s code reflects the city’s military history and comes from the nearby Canadian Forces Base, also called Edmonton Garrison.

    And the "Y" apparently stands for "Yes, there is an airport here". That's almost comical.
    Is there any airport in Canada that the code does NOT start with a Y?

  76. #276
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    The former Namao Base started using the name Edmonton Garrison decades after YEG began, so I call fake news

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The former Namao Base started using the name Edmonton Garrison decades after YEG began, so I call fake news
    There was never a posted link to a credible data source - so it was babble not "news".

  78. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Thanks for the interesting link. According to a site linked from the article:

    Edmonton International’s code reflects the city’s military history and comes from the nearby Canadian Forces Base, also called Edmonton Garrison.

    And the "Y" apparently stands for "Yes, there is an airport here". That's almost comical.
    Is there any airport in Canada that the code does NOT start with a Y?
    Akulivik, QC (AKV)
    Bathhurst, NB (ZBF)
    Bearskin Lake, ON (XBE)
    Bella Bella, BC (ZEL)
    Bella Coola, BC (QBC)
    Brockville, ON (XBR)

    More at the link

  79. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    The former Namao Base started using the name Edmonton Garrison decades after YEG began, so I call fake news
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    There was never a posted link to a credible data source - so it was babble not "news".
    I got it from here: https://airportcod.es/#airport/yeg

    Wasn't the name Edmonton Garrison also used many years ago? Before the air force?

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    Strange how Namao’s code is YED. ED I suppose stands for Edmonton. ������
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Didn't somebody say YEG is Y - Edmonton General.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Didn't somebody say YEG is Y - Edmonton General.
    This was my understanding as well.

  83. #283

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    They may have prior to my participation, or i forgot.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    I believe it was Tom Hinderks, former curator of the Aviation Museum and longtime aviation historian that said this as well. I had thought it was first known as Edmonton General Aviation facility or some such thing, back in the days of Orville and Wilbur. lol
    Last edited by Drumbones; 20-08-2018 at 11:51 PM.

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    I think the name Edmonton Garrison started when Namao Air Force base was changed over to accommodate the military moving up from Calgary when they were sort of forced to vacate the Sarcee Indian Reserve where much of their training facilities were located. In turn the Princess Patricia and Currie Barracks in Calgary were also vacated with all being moved to Edmonton. The now mainly army base was then given the handle Edmonton Garrison. The previous Air Force activity was moved to Cold Lake and elsewhere.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 20-08-2018 at 11:24 PM.

  86. #286

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    435 Squadron moved to Winnipeg

  87. #287

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    I really hope to see a new affordable airline succeed. But like most things in Canada, the government's greed is bringing it down, driving up costs, and in the end, passengers pay. So really, why would the gov't care? They make a mint.

    Airport land is leased by the government to the airports. Calgary and Edmonton are paying over $30 million in rents per year and it's going up. Toronto has paid almost $2 billion in the last 20 years in rent that goes to the government. This drives up airport fees and increases the cost to the airlines and in the end, us.

    In 2015, the government collected $255 million in rent across Canada. Then of course they also get a cut from the fuel used by the planes, and GST for everything from purchasing a ticket, to buying a stick of gum at a store in the airport.

    If the government really cared, they could either establish a fair lease, since they have no reason to charge so much, or they could finally SELL the land to the airports so that they can pay it down and then we will finally see lower airfare in Canada. But the income the feds get is something I'm sure they don't want to give up. Money wins.

    The money also makes the government too blind to see that the lower costs would drive up air passenger numbers not only from within Canada, but others worldwide as well, which of course would be profit for them as well. But the rent is a sure thing.
    Last edited by alkeli; 21-08-2018 at 03:18 PM.

  88. #288

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    EIA could always make a fair market offer to purchase the airport less what improvements they've build. Of course, you'll end up paying just as much if not more in the long run but at least you won't be able to blame the government.

    Care to guess how much buying the airport could cost? Your payments will be a lot more than $30 million per year over 20 or 25 years. Don't forget to add in interest.

  89. #289
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    ^^ And all that has WHAT TO DO with Flair Airlines? All you're doing is bitching and ranting about the airline business in general.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  90. #290

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    EIA could always make a fair market offer to purchase the airport less what improvements they've build. Of course, you'll end up paying just as much if not more in the long run but at least you won't be able to blame the government.

    Care to guess how much buying the airport could cost? Your payments will be a lot more than $30 million per year over 20 or 25 years. Don't forget to add in interest.
    Vancouver and Calgary have both recently tried to purchase the land but the government refuses to sell. At least if it were sold, they could pay down debt and eventually lower costs instead of the current model of just doing nothing and paying the feds and their ever-increasing rent costs forever.

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    Fly Flair Airlines ... lets keep this baby here in our City.

  92. #292

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    Absolutely! We dictacte our future...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  93. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    EIA could always make a fair market offer to purchase the airport less what improvements they've build. Of course, you'll end up paying just as much if not more in the long run but at least you won't be able to blame the government.

    Care to guess how much buying the airport could cost? Your payments will be a lot more than $30 million per year over 20 or 25 years. Don't forget to add in interest.
    Vancouver and Calgary have both recently tried to purchase the land but the government refuses to sell. At least if it were sold, they could pay down debt and eventually lower costs instead of the current model of just doing nothing and paying the feds and their ever-increasing rent costs forever.
    If it's sold by the feds, it'll then be taxed by the city or county. Unless you feel that airports should get a free ride.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 22-08-2018 at 10:00 PM.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    EIA could always make a fair market offer to purchase the airport less what improvements they've build. Of course, you'll end up paying just as much if not more in the long run but at least you won't be able to blame the government.

    Care to guess how much buying the airport could cost? Your payments will be a lot more than $30 million per year over 20 or 25 years. Don't forget to add in interest.
    Vancouver and Calgary have both recently tried to purchase the land but the government refuses to sell. At least if it were sold, they could pay down debt and eventually lower costs instead of the current model of just doing nothing and paying the feds and their ever-increasing rent costs forever.
    If it's sold by the feds, it'll then be taxed by the city our county. Unless you feel that airports should get a free ride.
    Exactly why in the US many Cities operate the airports - there is no tax. EIA should be under Edmonton. The City should appoint the Board. No taxes as its for economic development.

  95. #295

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    Everything commercial and industrial is for economic development. Should the city not tax WEM or SEC? Should Strathcona not tax Refinery Row?

  96. #296

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    EIA could always make a fair market offer to purchase the airport less what improvements they've build. Of course, you'll end up paying just as much if not more in the long run but at least you won't be able to blame the government.
    Care to guess how much buying the airport could cost? Your payments will be a lot more than $30 million per year over 20 or 25 years. Don't forget to add in interest.
    Vancouver and Calgary have both recently tried to purchase the land but the government refuses to sell. At least if it were sold, they could pay down debt and eventually lower costs instead of the current model of just doing nothing and paying the feds and their ever-increasing rent costs forever.
    If it's sold by the feds, it'll then be taxed by the city or county. Unless you feel that airports should get a free ride.
    Even if taxed, which it shouldn't be, it would still be cheaper than the current lease rents. Right now it's just a free money flow to the feds. At least a tax would benefit Edmonton/Alberta. The income and shortsightedness is preventing air travel from increasing.

    The end result of lowering airfare would turn into MORE people flying, and become a real economic source that benefits everyone instead of a cashcow for the feds. And that's not only benefitting airlines and airports, but also travel and tourism money within Canada. Right now it's cheaper to fly to Vegas or Cancun than to fly to many places in Canada, so of course the best option is to travel outside of Canada and spend money in another country. Hell I can fly round-trip to Amsterdam for less than flying to Montreal...

    My wife and I travel often to Vancouver to visit family which can cost $800-$1400 to fly depending on when and with who. Do we fly? Hell no, we drive the 14 hours and it costs us under $300 in gas, plus, we have the benefit on having our own vehicle while we're there to do things. If flying was even $100 more than gas would cost, then we would consider it just to save the time. As it is now, we'll drive.

    I've also driven to Ontario because I had the time off. Flight was over $1500, but driving the 3600 km's each way only cost me $800 in gas. Yes convenience of getting there faster etc, but again, I had my own vehicle while I was there and didn't need a rental.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Everything commercial and industrial is for economic development. Should the city not tax WEM or SEC? Should Strathcona not tax Refinery Row?
    Airport is publicly owned and operated. Whats wrong with you?

  98. #298

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    So the city should shell out billions to but it from the feds? Or should the federal government just give it away for free?

  99. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    So the city should shell out billions to but it from the feds? Or should the federal government just give it away for free?
    Free - for all airports to Municipalities. The Feds want to help the Cities. They have this way.

  100. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    So the city should shell out billions to but it from the feds? Or should the federal government just give it away for free?
    Free - for all airports to Municipalities. The Feds want to help the Cities. They have this way.
    The airports are PUBLIC infrastructure. It seems like a bit of a cash cow for the Feds now - they don't do much but collect the rent. Of course, that cost ultimately gets passed on to the people who use the airports.

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