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  1. #301

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    If the feds shouldn't collect rent on the airport, why would the city (or county or whoever) be expected to collect rent from the airlines and other tenants? No taxes as it's for economic development, right? Get rid of the improvement fee too, which is just another name for a tax.

  2. #302

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    Without the fees, tax payers will foot the bill. It is a tax, but it is a "USER" tax. Flying is a privelage not a right, therefore, those who yse it should pay for its improvements. Pretty logical if you ask me.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  3. #303

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    Even if rent is removed and the airports are taxed, it will still cost the airports far less to operate.

    As it is now, everything to do with airports and flights are already taxed:

    Parts and equipment used to repair aircraft and maintain/upgrade the airports.
    The fuel used by aircraft.
    Electricity, gas and water using in the airport (utilities, which are taxed).
    The price of purchasing a ticket.
    Anything someone purchases in the airport or on the planes (drinks, food, magazines, gifts etc).
    Parking at the airport.
    Landing/runway/docking fees for airlines.

    All the above is already taxed whether hidden in the cost (several times for fuel) or as GST/PST/HST.
    AND don't forget that every employee at the airports and the airlines from pilot to janitor also pays income tax and the feds basically get ~40% of the wages from everyone that works at all airports across Canada and pilots/stewards.

    The feds get all that in taxes plus the millions in rent!

    Sell the land, allow airports to start paying down the debt/mortgage which will allow them to lower costs. Lowering costs will drive up air travel, create more jobs when the airlines and airports can expand and become more profitable, and the increased money spent with air travel and airport amenities will also benefit the federal and provincial governments with more taxable incomes, benefitting the entire air economy.

    This will also benefit us, the passengers, with lower ticket prices. In turn, lower ticket prices will have people opting to fly more often, and vacation WITHIN Canada, which also drives up national tourism, driving up the tourism economy as well.

    It's a win-win for everyone if the feds can just stop being greedy and give up that cash cow.

  4. #304

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    You could say the same thing about WEM. Let's stop taxing them and watch the prices drop and people start shopping more.

  5. #305
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    Ya but.....airplanes burn 900 to 1500 litres of fuel per hour. One of our largest contributors to air pollution.

  6. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Without the fees, tax payers will foot the bill. It is a tax, but it is a "USER" tax. Flying is a privelage not a right, therefore, those who yse it should pay for its improvements. Pretty logical if you ask me.
    Yet again, another government cash cow. MOOO !!! Yes, if the government can not covertly find ways to extract money, they may need to levy taxes accordingly, which they are very afraid to do.

    It's not the 1950's, many people fly and it is not just the very wealthy. If it is really a user fee, then put it right on the airline ticket and show it clearly rather than bury it by charging it to airports.

  7. #307
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    How about we return to the topic of this thread...Flair Airlines?
    Almost always open to debate...

  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    You could say the same thing about WEM. Let's stop taxing them and watch the prices drop and people start shopping more.
    I never said anything about not taxing the airports. It's about the RENT cost on the LEASED LAND that the federal govt leases to the airports for insane amount of money that keep going up every year. I believe Calgary pays the most and is approaching $40 million per year just to rent the land. The whole point is that they should allow the land to be purchased and be done away with the leasing that will go on forever and continue to get more and more expensive. It doesn't even make sense as to why the government would increase the rent year after year for the same piece of land, but they do. Moooooooo.

  9. #309

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidnorwoodink View Post
    How about we return to the topic of this thread...Flair Airlines?
    It's still on topic, just about how airlines like Flair Airlines struggle and fail because of ever-increasing high airport fees that the airlines must pay thanks to the federal government's greed.

  10. #310

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    Remember to subscribe to Flair's emailer listfor hot deals. I rarely subscribe to emailers like this but if an airline is going to relocate their hub to YEG and provide us with more options, I will absolutely do what I can to support them.

    Here's the link (scroll 2/3 down): https://flairair.ca/deals/

  11. #311
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    FlairAirlines‏ @FlairAirlines

    We're pleased to announce record traffic this summer with more than a quarter million passengers and load factors in excess of 90%! #FlyFlair #Flairlowfares #Flairfares
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  12. #312
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    Just saw this tweet by Flair “We're pleased to announce record traffic this summer with more than a quarter million passengers and load factors in excess of 90%!”

    75% off passenger flying via YEG according to the Edmonton Journal.

    Hope their margins are good and they can continue to expand.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Just saw this tweet by Flair “We're pleased to announce record traffic this summer with more than a quarter million passengers and load factors in excess of 90%!”

    75% off passenger flying via YEG according to the Edmonton Journal.

    Hope their margins are good and they can continue to expand.
    The benefit of a HUB.

  14. #314

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    Very good to hear!

  15. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Just saw this tweet by Flair “We're pleased to announce record traffic this summer with more than a quarter million passengers and load factors in excess of 90%!”

    75% off passenger flying via YEG according to the Edmonton Journal.

    Hope their margins are good and they can continue to expand.
    Unfortunately nothing in that tweet says how well they're doing financially and it's a pretty useless fluff statement. They're just throwing sunshine.

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    ^Weird how a privately owned company isn't disclosing financial information to the public.

    And extra weird how they're marketing! No advertising allowed. Just tell me how much money you make!

  17. #317

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    High load factors mean a higher probability of financial success. They are a private company so not expecting any detailed info.

    I'd encourage people to read up on Flair's Executive Chairman, David M Tait, the mastermind behind the Virgin Atlantic business plan and Virgin's first employee. He ran the North American ops from 1984 to 2002 and was awarded the OBE award by the Queen for his services aviation. He has a "people are the product" philosophy and it's evident in the great customer service my family and I received on half a dozen flights we've taken till now (kids got a tour of the cockpit, flight attends very helpful with our baby, etc.).

    Flair definitely has the right brains behind the wheels.

  18. #318

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    I would be more inclined to support Flair Airlines over Swoop. Only reason Swoop even exists is because Flair was taking people away from Westjet. If Flair ever went out of business, i can totally see Westjet getting rid of Swoop and having flights resume at their regular cost.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by trick91 View Post
    I would be more inclined to support Flair Airlines over Swoop. Only reason Swoop even exists is because Flair was taking people away from Westjet. If Flair ever went out of business, i can totally see Westjet getting rid of Swoop and having flights resume at their regular cost.
    I agree.

  20. #320

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    Can anyone comment on what actual travel on flair is like? Thanks!

  21. #321

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    It's already been mentioned in this thread. Friendly staff, nice planes, but you can tell they're old (the planes, not the staff).

  22. #322

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    I'm in Toronto now, about to leave the hotel to pick up my daughter flying in from Edmonton on Flair. I'll ask her for a thorough review (don't hold your breath

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Can anyone comment on what actual travel on flair is like? Thanks!
    Pretty much the same as any airline with a notable exception.Iif one can pry them self OFF the electronic device of their choice, you sit in an older model 37 with no IFE. That said, the aircraft are clean, staff are professional and I have always had a good experience when ever I fly with them. Snacks by purchase including alcoholic bevies. 1st checked bag is cheaper than WJ and AC.4th flight booked to Victoria next Tuesday for 79 bucks. Boo Yaa!!!
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  24. #324
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    Edmonton to Las Vegas (or vice versa) - $198 to $258 CAD roundtrip | non-stop flights [Thu/Fri to Sun dates available]. WOW

    https://yegdeals.com

  25. #325
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    Pretty much what cnr67 said.

    Depending on how tall you are, might want to pay the extra to ensure you get an aisle, or emergency exit seat.

    From what I've heard, a lot friendlier than Swoop - but have friends Swooping to Abbotsford this weekend, so will get a first-hand account.
    ... gobsmacked

  26. #326

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    My daughter said "It's just a flight".

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    My daughter said "It's just a flight".
    Sounds about right for Canadians air travel!

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Can anyone comment on what actual travel on flair is like? Thanks!
    Pretty much the same as any airline with a notable exception.Iif one can pry them self OFF the electronic device of their choice, you sit in an older model 37 with no IFE. That said, the aircraft are clean, staff are professional and I have always had a good experience when ever I fly with them. Snacks by purchase including alcoholic bevies. 1st checked bag is cheaper than WJ and AC.4th flight booked to Victoria next Tuesday for 79 bucks. Boo Yaa!!!
    i flew to YVR at Easter and everything was just fine. Saved so much money I bought some wine and crisps to celebrate.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Can anyone comment on what actual travel on flair is like? Thanks!
    Pretty much the same as any airline with a notable exception.Iif one can pry them self OFF the electronic device of their choice, you sit in an older model 37 with no IFE. That said, the aircraft are clean, staff are professional and I have always had a good experience when ever I fly with them. Snacks by purchase including alcoholic bevies. 1st checked bag is cheaper than WJ and AC.4th flight booked to Victoria next Tuesday for 79 bucks. Boo Yaa!!!
    i flew to YVR at Easter and everything was just fine. Saved so much money I bought some wine and crisps to celebrate.
    LOLOL . The wife and I always have a glass of red wine on every flight.It's always great to know what we didn't spend.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  30. #330
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    Trip number 4 in the books. Flight to Victoria went very well despite a slight aircraft arrival delay into Edmonton. Staff professional and very friendly. The ticket agents were quite jovial. Total for the RT , $138 to put my butt in the seat. No . Considering it cost $50 to Salt Spring Island for the day, the flight was very inexpensive. This flight was priced lower than AC,WJ and swoop by no less than $100. AC being the big rip off. WJ and Swoop not far behind AC. And with just a carry on to go under the seat, and printed off my pass,I had no extra fees.Sweet deal.Would I fly across the country or South with them? Without question.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  31. #331

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    Ac= All Cost to rip you off airline.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Ac= All Cost to rip you off airline.
    You say the strangest things little dude. Is there a topic you DON'T have an opinion on? Let me put it another way....you opinions on everything are tiresome to read.....try cutting back 50:1? Btw, is there no work for Insulators right now? Where I'm at Thomas is going pretty hard. Cuz there is no way you are wrapping pipe and responding to every thread, every single second of every day.....

  33. #333

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    You stated "opinion" so clue on. I despised them for 3 decades, so naturally there would be an opinion, and I have stood by my principle for those duration by not supporting them.. Enjoy democracy and voice your opinion; it's a privelege that should be exercised.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  34. #334
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    AC has NEVER been an airline that makes flying affordable. Back in 2005, I priced 5 tickets to Hawaii. AC had a price of $ 1000 plus taxes return via YCVR. Vancouver.United gave me a price of just under $600 CAD per ticket via KDEN (Denver) So, our "flagship" carrier lost $3000 to an American carrier. WJ,AC,and all their commuter/discount brands are NOT giving the pricing people are looking for domestically. Hence why the ULCC model will work and why Flair has a better than 85% pax on it's flights. WJ began just as Falir has. Older frames with limited routes. They stayed the course and became very popular and profitable and it almost put AC out of business. Flair has alot more completion than WJ had. That will make for better fare structures I'm sure. Bottom line for myself,routes,and pricing. Simple as that. There is no route in North America that I would pay for IFE. I'll survive and enjoy saving my money for the destination.I concur.AC is a complete and utter rip off. WJ isn't far behind. I never thought I'd say that.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  35. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Ac= All Cost to rip you off airline.
    You say the strangest things little dude. Is there a topic you DON'T have an opinion on? Let me put it another way....you opinions on everything are tiresome to read.....try cutting back 50:1? Btw, is there no work for Insulators right now? Where I'm at Thomas is going pretty hard. Cuz there is no way you are wrapping pipe and responding to every thread, every single second of every day.....
    What does any of this have to do with the topic.How about STAYING ON IT. Have a beef, PM him.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  36. #336

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    Talking about Air Canada always reminds me of this classic joke:

    A guy sitting at an airport bar in Atlanta noticed a good looking woman a couple of seats over. She was wearing a flight attendant's uniform, but he couldn't see the front.

    But which airline does she work for? Hoping to gain her attention, he leaned towards her and uttered the Delta Slogan, "Love to fly and it shows?"

    She gave him a blank, confused stare and he immediately thought to himself, "Nope, not Delta."

    A moment later, another slogan popped into his head. He leaned towards her again, "Something special in the air?" This time she gave him a scowl.

    He mentally kicked himself, and scratched American Airlines off the list. Next he tried the United slogan, "I would really love to fly your friendly skies?"

    This time the woman savagely turned on him, "Listen *******, why don't you go **** yourself!"

    The man smiled, then slumped back in his chair, and said.... "Ahhh, Air Canada!"

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by K364 View Post
    Talking about Air Canada always reminds me of this classic joke:

    A guy sitting at an airport bar in Atlanta noticed a good looking woman a couple of seats over. She was wearing a flight attendant's uniform, but he couldn't see the front.

    But which airline does she work for? Hoping to gain her attention, he leaned towards her and uttered the Delta Slogan, "Love to fly and it shows?"

    She gave him a blank, confused stare and he immediately thought to himself, "Nope, not Delta."

    A moment later, another slogan popped into his head. He leaned towards her again, "Something special in the air?" This time she gave him a scowl.

    He mentally kicked himself, and scratched American Airlines off the list. Next he tried the United slogan, "I would really love to fly your friendly skies?"

    This time the woman savagely turned on him, "Listen *******, why don't you go **** yourself!"

    The man smiled, then slumped back in his chair, and said.... "Ahhh, Air Canada!"
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  38. #338

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    Just yesterday I received the following email from Flair:

    Due to the introduction of our fall and winter schedules, service to and from Victoria BC has been reduced, and now flights into and out of Victoria now only operate on Monday, Thursday, Friday, and Sunday.
    In reviewing our schedule changes, unfortunately your flight booked for Saturday September 22 has been cancelled. I sincerely apologize that this has happened and would like to speak to you to make alternate arrangements for you. We in no way want to leave you stranded and I would like to discuss some options with you.


    I find it rather odd that they decided to notify me of this change only a couple of days before my flight but nonetheless, as long as the rebook me on AC or WestJet I will be happy.

  39. #339
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    Re-directing metal to southern destinations.

    Too bad - actually forced Westjet to ratchet down YYJ fares (return) a couple of hundred$

    New planes in the pipeline though.
    ... gobsmacked

  40. #340

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    I agree that lack of metal would be the reasoning; stevester, I hope you would continue to support them in their infancy stage. Even WS had similiar problems when they first started, and Western Canadians still supported them. As well, I hope our non forumers reading this will also get this message and join the party. Our support for this airline is crucial for our city. From an economic and opportunity perspective, this airline will put us in a much better position than we have ever had. Let's not blow this Christmas bonus Edmontonians and neighbors. We have our own baby now that we have to make sure it is healthy.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 18-09-2018 at 11:03 AM.
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  41. #341
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    We do YEG-Moncton two/three times a year. If Flair gets that together (even with the pitstop in Hamilton that WJ once did) they're going to get my business.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  42. #342

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    Flair was prominent with FBO flights and well aware of the Eastern connection issues. I'm sure they are aware of those metrics. Halifax and Moncton are the two cities they would most likely have a focus on as those were prime connections for workers; St.John may also be on their radar. They know about the 1.5 day layover at airports for some folks one way. Cheap and direct would totally garner them loyalty from those folks. Who wouldn't want to spend an extra two days with their kids on a 7 days off.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  43. #343
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    ^ Yep, it was only when the oilpatch flattened out a bit a while back that WJ cut that service. I don't know how east coast/Fort Mac services are these days, I'd have to look that up.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  44. #344

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    That has all but stopped. During the peak of the boom, the airlines made acceptions due to the mass with great incomes. Now, FBO hubs are just Edmonton and Calgary.From my perspective, have a direct flight to Halifax, but charter with a regional - non competitive alliance ( if possible)- for workers for the days they require departure or arrival for Moncton and St,John would be an option as all sights primarily have the same days off pending on format schedule. Right now, 7/7 and 14/7 are the majority standard. Stick with that routine until they deemed expansion as a viable option. I could see one fellow forumers come onto the thread and lambas Easterners for working here. I much rather that happen than foreigners. We get tax contributions, expenditures to stimulate our economy. Foreigners get equal pay, don't invest in our country economically, stay in camp for free, and all at the Canadian tax payers expense as we subsidize these companies directly and indirectly. Just throwing that out ahead of time for clarification, so there is no rant or hatred as we ar one country with one federal tax pool.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 18-09-2018 at 10:09 PM.
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  45. #345

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    Does anyone know you can't book one way flights from US to Can on Flair?

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