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Thread: All things Water Treatment in Edmonton

  1. #1

    Default All things Water Treatment in Edmonton

    Just starting a thread to cover all things water treatment in Edmonton.

    Some random stuff:

    Years ago I posted to Wikipedia's Edmonton article information on Edmonton's state of the art treatment with UV. I've never heard how that's worked out.

    However I'll start within a couple dramatic issues just for the fun of it.

    First fluoridation (like vaccines, a near taboo subject to criticize because the science seemed "settled"), then lead.

    For some reason the old 2099 thread on fluoridation in water was closed. Personally I was raised to think it was a great thing. So the following seemingly sensible and reasonable article is very interesting.



    Adding fluoride to water supply may have no benefit, say experts
    Critics call for end to scheme designed to prevent tooth decay in children, saying its effectiveness remains unproved
    25 December 2015


    Stephen Peckham, director and professor of health policy at Kent University’s centre for health service studies, said: “Water fluoridation was implemented before statistics had been compiled on its safety or effectiveness. It was the only cannon shot they had in their armoury. It gets rolled out, becomes – in England – policy and then you look for evidence to support it.

    debate [whereby fat used to be the big enemy in food before that was revised] is an example of evidence getting built up to support a theory. It’s a dental health policy that’s got up a head of steam and people have been reluctant to see it criticised.

    “You can’t really confidently say that water fluoridation is either safe or effective. There is a problem where the evidence is seen as either totally in favour or totally negative and it’s more murky than that.”

    Earlier this year, the Cochrane collaboration, a respected not-for-profit organisation of 14,000 academics, reviewed the evidence but failed to settle the debate.
    ...
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ed-tooth-decay

    Now this is scary!
    Cher was saying something about putting someone in front of a firing squad for this...

    All of Flint's youngest kids poisoned with lead
    By Kristi Tanner, Detroit Free Press Staff Writer 7:33 a.m. EST January 16, 2016



    http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/c...lead/78818888/
    Last edited by KC; 16-01-2016 at 10:09 AM.

  2. #2

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    Pretty sad when the bean counters rule.

    Flint water crisis: 6 things to know about the toxic taps

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/flint-m...ated-1.3410855

  3. #3

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    There's nothing bad about the water treatment in Edmonton; we have one of the better municipal systems in North America. The only time there is a dip in quality is during the spring runoff and even that hasn't been a problem in recent years.

    Have we run out of things to complain about in this forum so that we have to pick on parts of the City that actually do a good job?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    There's nothing bad about the water treatment in Edmonton; we have one of the better municipal systems in North America. The only time there is a dip in quality is during the spring runoff and even that hasn't been a problem in recent years.

    Have we run out of things to complain about in this forum so that we have to pick on parts of the City that actually do a good job?
    Who complaining?

    C2e isn't, by far, a place for just complaining about al things in life, and if that's your perception of the forum something is very wrong. Maybe you need to visit and start threads on c2e's Great Ideas forum for some inspiration.

    In fact, as I mentioned in the first post, years ago I was the one to put several references on Edmonton's Wikipedia page about the globe leading, advanced nature of Edmonton's water and waste treatment and recycling systems.

    The post about Flint (lead) and fluoride mean that there's always a need for further education and research and I suppose vigilance to keep what's working well vs. allowing misguided non-professionals to degrade past achievements.

  5. #5

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    The rule of thumb is that if it works, people don't talk about it; if it doesn't, people don't shut up about it. Drawing undue attention to things is simply asking for it.

    Edmonton's water management in general is excellent in terms of research, training and technology and well worth exporting. It isn't. In the meantime, our professionals know their business and are thankful to be out of the public eye (and meddling political hands).

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    The rule of thumb is that if it works, people don't talk about it; if it doesn't, people don't shut up about it. Drawing undue attention to things is simply asking for it.

    Edmonton's water management in general is excellent in terms of research, training and technology and well worth exporting. It isn't. In the meantime, our professionals know their business and are thankful to be out of the public eye (and meddling political hands).
    Sounds like the famous last words of a failed parent.

    It's sad but maybe true, our "rule of thumb" is a very unscientific, un-professional negative bias.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Sounds like the famous last words of a failed parent.

    It's sad but maybe true, our "rule of thumb" is a very unscientific, un-professional negative bias.
    What is science but a formalized system of 'rules of thumb'? I'll just be thankful that EPCOR is a separate entity and hasn't been bungled in the name of reorganization like DSD has been.

    Closer to home: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...sued-1.3416348

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    It's sounding like there might be a big coverup about to be exposed regarding U.S. water

    Every Major US City East of the Mississippi is Underreporting Heavy Metals in it's Water

    Just when the news about lead poisoning the drinking water of Flint, Michigan, couldn’t get any worse. A report from The Guardian says many US cities are systemically and purposely downplaying the amounts of lead and copper in municipal water systems.


    A scientist who was part of an Environmental Protection Agency taskforce disclosed documents to the Guardian which shows how water boards are distorting tests to make their water appear safer, a practice confirmed by an anonymous source:

    The controversial approach to water testing is so widespread that it occurs in “every major US city east of the Mississippi” according to an anonymous source with extensive knowledge of the lead and copper regulations. “By word of mouth, this has become the thing to do in the water industry. The logical conclusion is that millions of people’s drinking water is potentially unsafe,”he said.
    http://gizmodo.com/report-every-majo...i-i-1754573026
    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...g-flint-crisis
    Last edited by Kitlope; 23-01-2016 at 04:33 PM.

  9. #9

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    This as a rather shocking interview. A academic telling it like it is.


    Its also interesting that this city is a case study for what happens when democracy is punted. Moreover, I imagine this case pales in comparison to what's happening in the industrial cities of the communist and autocratic world.


    Sounds like a fascinating book...

    Friday January 22, 2016
    Flint's water crisis reflects history linking lead levels to race and poverty


    ...

    Rosner is a professor of history and public health at Columbia University and has written extensively on the history of lead in the U.S. including the book, Lead Wars: The Politics of Science and the Fate of America's Children. He says Flint's water issues reflect part of a long U.S. tradition, exposing more African-Americans to lead.

    Lead poisoning has been an all-too common problem, not just in Flint, but in cities across the U.S.
    ...


    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/t...erty-1.3415059



    Last edited by KC; 23-01-2016 at 07:28 PM.

  10. #10

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    Out of sight but not out of mind - IN your mind...

    Lead Exposure on the Rise Despite Decline in Poisoning Cases
    Leaded gasoline and lead paint are gone, but other sources are keeping the danger high
    By Mark Fischetti on February 17, 2013

    BOSTON—Exposure to lead—so toxic—is a problem of the past, right? Wrong. Since the U.S. took lead out of gasoline in 1976 and banned lead paint in 1978, most health scientists, regulators and the public have considered the problem largely solved. But ongoing testing shows that even though the average concentration of lead in the American bloodstream has dropped by a factor of 10 since the late 1970s, the levels are still two orders of magnitude higher than natural human levels, which have been determined by studying skeletal remains of native Americans dating to before the industrial revolution.

    Equally problematic, recent health studies have shown that exposure levels previously thought to be “safe” were too high. Scientists from various disciplines are advising the Environmental Protection Agency and health departments to lower the concentration deemed acceptable in the bloodstream, which today averages 1.3 micrograms per deciliter but can be much higher for many individuals. The change is warranted because the latest set of long-term tests done over decades has revealed that many of the health complications from lead arise even at low exposures. Higher levels are not necessary to instigate damage to the body or brain, Joel Schwartz of the Harvard School of Public Health told a somewhat surprised crowd on Feb. 16 here at the annual American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) meeting. Excessive lead exposure correlates with a host of ills, including impaired cognition, attention deficit disorder and lower academic test scores for children, psychiatric disorders, and increased blood pressure, hypertension and arrhythmia.

    Lead is also increasingly implicated in dementia in the elderly. As we age, our bones..."


    Lead is still present in drinking water in many communities, where it can leach from lead pipes in homes, apartment buildings and municipal water system, or from brass fittings or solder used in plumbing. Another 25,000 to 30,000 tons of lead enters the U.S. environment each year from hunting and shooting-range ammunition, fishing-line weights, discarded batteries and electronic waste, said Mark Pokras at Tufts University.
    ..."

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-on-the-rise/

    Poisoning the Well: How the Feds Let Energy and Mining Companies Pollute Underground Water
    Aquifer exemptions give industry permission to pollute underground freshwater reservoirs
    By Abrahm Lustgarten, ProPublica on December 11, 2012

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-underground/

  11. #11

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    Again, not Edmonton news, but makes us appreciate our professionalism a whole lot more.

    Michael Moore: 10 Things They Won’t Tell You About the Flint Water Tragedy, But I Will

    Michael Moore | January 30, 2016

    http://ecowatch.com/2016/01/30/michael-moore-flint/

  12. #12

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    My view is that most often asbestos is a relatively low risk threat compared to lead in one's drinking water - especially when children and babies are involved. Yet asbestos attracts quite fearful reactions and actions from those that are exposing themselves to it. So since this is also an invisible threat to young children, maybe every such home should be required to post a sticker on the front door announcing that it has lead pipes and if no filter is present, no one shoiuld drink water without running the water for a calculated period of time. Just the requirement for an audit and a sticker would spur a lot of the remaining homes to solve the problem permanently. I'd also see no problem with the city or EPCOR financing a replacement program and collecting back the loan via property taxes or water billing.

    Now, if I heard it correctly, in a CBC radio interview this morning it was mentioned that EPCOR asked that the water be run for 30 minutes before the test ad that the results showed lead being twice the acceptable level. So, I've long heard that you should run your water in older homes for a minute or two before drinking the water. I'm not sure who else has ever heard that advice though.

    So, say, someone visits one of these homes and feeds a baby from a bottle of tap water filled out of a basement tap or something that hasn't been used for a long period of time... (It's like people that let wine sit in old leaded-glass wine decanters and ended up consuming toxic levels of lead. Visitor has no idea what they were drinking. Lucky they were adults.)


    Edmonton woman warns of lead pipes after finding the toxin in her water
    January 29, 2016, By Fletcher Kent, Global News

    "If your home was built after the mid-1950s, that service line would be made of either copper or plastic.

    EPCOR estimates the service lines connecting about 3,500 older Edmonton homes are still made of lead."



    “It’s quite possible that, having discovered now I have lead pipes in the house and I have been drinking very contaminated water for the past 11 years, that may have contributed to my hyperthyroidism,” said Pedersen.


    ..."Since 2008, the utility company has operated a program that gradually replaces remaining lead pipes.

    Financially, EPCOR is only responsible for the pipe between the water main and the property line. The homeowner must pay to replace the pipe from the property line to the house. ...

  13. #13

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    If you're concerned about having lead service pipes, contact EPCOR. All of the lead services are flagged in the system & they can let you know if that's the case up to the curb stop valve.

    If you're concerned about lead pipes on the other side of the curb stop up to your house, you'll need to contact a 3rd party as that's outside EPCOR's purview.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    If you're concerned about having lead service pipes, contact EPCOR. All of the lead services are flagged in the system & they can let you know if that's the case up to the curb stop valve.

    If you're concerned about lead pipes on the other side of the curb stop up to your house, you'll need to contact a 3rd party as that's outside EPCOR's purview.
    Good information. I'm not concerned because I live in a 1970s suburb and grew up in 1950s developments.

    Also, this is all subject to correction, but based on my understanding that the water causes lead to dissolve or leach into the water, so I can't imagine that main lines made of lead ever posed much of threat because the water didn't sit for any length of time as it fed a large number of residences and so would have been extremely diluted. However, having a lead pipe feeding a home appears to be a much, much bigger issue if one can run the water for 30 minutes and still exceed the testing level by a 100%. Now having lead pipes and solder at lightly used pipes would allow leaching and accumulation over time. Just how high could some of that tap water get?

  15. #15

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    Well, I guess any home built before the late 1980s has potential issues. People with basement bar taps that don't get used for extended periods until visitors arrive or kids are over for play dates, etc. should maybe run their tabs for a minute before guests arrive.


    Does your water pose a lead risk? The Portland Water Bureau will help you test it
    Carrie Sturrock, March 26, 2010


    "...interference in red blood cell production and a lowered IQ in children. Infants, children and pregnant women are at greatest risk. ... Once a child is poisoned with lead, the damage has largely been done, says Gail Shibley, administrator of the Office of Environmental Public Health in the Oregon Health Authority.

    "There's no putting the perfume back in the bottle," she says."...


    ...Whew, I thought. And then I talked to Shibley.

    "There's no such thing as a safe amount of lead," she says. "Lead is a very potent neurotoxin."

    She points out the maximum contaminant level goal established by the EPA under the Safe Drinking Water Act is zero parts per billion. So why does the agency recommend action at 15 parts per billion?

    That's because it's nearly impossible to remove all the lead from all home plumbing. Even if I replaced my plumbing, which would be incredibly expensive, I may still get a 2 ppb reading because the pipe leading from my home to the street could contain it. Federal law currently allows "end-use" brass fixtures, such as faucets, to contain up to 8 percent lead and be labeled lead-free.

    But there are some easy steps I can take to reduce my family's exposure. Lead levels are highest after water has been sitting in and corroding the pipes for a few hours. So running the faucet for 30 seconds to a minute -- until the water gets cold -- will help flush out the lead.

    But wait. What about the don't-waste-water campaign?

    Reducing exposure to lead trumps all that, Shibley says.
    ..."


    http://blog.oregonlive.com/pdxgreen/...a_lead_ri.html
    Last edited by KC; 04-02-2016 at 10:04 AM.

  16. #16
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    ^^^CDC advice is:

    2. Does the service pipe at the street (header pipe) have lead in it?

    This information is very important. It determines which of the next two actions (A or B) you should follow to protect your household’s health.

    A) If the pipe in the street (header pipe) DOES NOT have lead, the lead in your tap water may be coming from fixtures, pipes, or elsewhere inside your home.
    Until you eliminate the source, you should take the following steps any time you wish to use tap water for drinking or cooking, especially when the water has been off and sitting in the pipes for more than 6 hours:
    a. Before using any tap water for drinking or cooking, flush your water system by running the kitchen tap (or any other tap you take drinking or cooking water from) on COLDfor 1–2 minutes;
    b. Then, fill a clean container(s) with water from this tap. This water will be suitable for drinking, cooking, preparation of baby formula, or other consumption. To conserve water, collect multiple containers of water at once (after you have fully flushed the water from the tap as described).
    B) If the pipe at the street (header pipe) DOES contain lead, lead in the tap water may be coming from that pipe or connected pipes (it may also be coming from sources inside your home).
    Until the lead source is eliminated, you should take the following steps any time you wish to use tap water for drinking or cooking, especially when the water has been off and sitting in the pipes for more than 6 hours. Please note that additional flushing is necessary:
    a. Before using any tap water for drinking or cooking, run high-volume taps (such as your shower) on COLD for 5 minutes or more;
    b. Then, run the kitchen tap on COLD for 1–2 additional minutes;
    c. Fill a clean container(s) with water from this tap. This water will be suitable for drinking, cooking, preparation of baby formula, or other consumption. To conserve water, collect multiple containers of water at once (after you have fully flushed the water from the tap as described).

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    First thing I usually do when I get up in the morning or when I get home from work is use the bathroom. Flushing the toilet flushes the service line. Running the tap until it is cold will then ensure your drinking water has had minimal contact time with any lead pipes or lead-containing solder or brass.

  18. #18

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    I wonder how Edmonton compares to Vancouver and Victoria - and out east.

    Oh, found an answer and posted a quote below. ....Hmmm, you know what I'm thinking. Maybe they need to build pipelines to Alberta and we'll treat the raw sewage for them. All those billions in equalization payments don't seem to have done the trick in helping them look after their environments.


    Victoria's Secret: Dumping Raw Sewage Like It's 1915 | The Tyee
    http://thetyee.ca/News/2015/01/26/Vi...ewage-Dumping/



    http://www.bucksuzuki.org/images/upl...den_Killer.pdf


    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vau...763/story.html


    Canada’s method of wastewater treatment ‘backwards’ | Globalnews.ca
    http://globalnews.ca/news/545254/can...embarrassment/



    Canada Dumping Raw Sewage into Its Waterways - The Canadian Encyclopedia
    PUBLISHED 07/19/06
    LAST EDITED 12/15/13

    ...
    Haphazard about covers it. Calgary, Edmonton, parts of Hamilton, and Whistler, B.C., have world-class tertiary levels of treatment that reduce sewage to clear effluent and disinfected compost safe enough to use as fertilizer. At the other end of the scale, St. John's, Nfld., and Halifax are building treatment plants after years of using their grossly polluted harbours as sewage dumps. Montreal flushes a total of 900 billion litres of sewage into the St. Lawrence River annually. Most of it gets minimal primary treatment - but some 3.6 billion litres enter the river as raw sewage. Even Saint John, N.B., with one primary treatment facility and two secondary treatment plants, emits 6.6 billion litres of untreated effluent a year into the Saint John River and the Bay of Fundy.
    ...

    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...its-waterways/
    Last edited by KC; 05-02-2016 at 11:42 PM.

  19. #19

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    As should be expected...


    Fluoride-free drinking water in Calgary leads to rise in kids' tooth decay, study indicates - Calgary - CBC News


    Lindsay McLaren, the researcher with the University of Calgary's Cumming School of Medicine who led the study, told the Calgary Eyeopener's David Gray that there were more cavities in both Calgary and Edmonton over the period of the study, but "it got worse in Calgary, where fluoridation was stopped, than in Edmonton."
    ...


    Ward 7 Coun. Druh Farrell was one of those in favour of removing it, arguing that helping families who couldn't afford fluoridated toothpaste would be a better idea than giving it to the entire population.

    Why Calgary stopped

    Ward 3 Coun. Jim Stevenson also voted to remove fluoride from Calgary's water, saying there was insufficient medical proof that keeping it would have any benefit.

    "We as a council have to show some leadership here," he told the CBC in 2011.
    ...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ater-1.3450616
    Last edited by KC; 17-02-2016 at 09:30 AM.

  20. #20

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    So despite overwhelming evidence that fluoridation is good, Calgary stopped because reasons?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    So despite overwhelming evidence that fluoridation is good, Calgary stopped because reasons?
    Yes, seems that the evidence is overwhelming that it should be good for the teeth, but if you look at the article posted at the top of the thread, apparently there is little to no evidence that fluoridation is good, or bad, for the the teeth or the rest of the body. So this Calgary Edmonton study is a good step in the right direction.
    Last edited by KC; 17-02-2016 at 11:55 AM.

  22. #22
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    The only actual research (a meta-study) mentioned in the Guardian article says this:

    Key results

    Our review found that water fluoridation is effective at reducing levels of tooth decay among children. The introduction of water fluoridation resulted in children having 35% fewer decayed, missing and filled baby teeth and 26% fewer decayed, missing and filled permanent teeth. We also found that fluoridation led to a 15% increase in children with no decay in their baby teeth and a 14% increase in children with no decay in their permanent teeth. These results are based predominantly on old studies and may not be applicable today.

    Within the ‘before and after’ studies we were looking for, we did not find any on the benefits of fluoridated water for adults.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  23. #23

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    Seems that some more studies won't hurt but I doubt anything will be definitive.


    Here's an example...
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sc-hlt...226-story.html

  24. #24

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    "Only last month did his family learn"




    Lead taints drinking water in hundreds of schools, day cares across USA
    SOME 350 WATER SYSTEMS THAT FAILED LEAD TESTS IN RECENT YEARS PROVIDE DRINKING WATER TO SCHOOLS AND CHILD-CARE CENTERS.
    Laura Ungar, USA TODAY

    "...
    Whenever Jamison Rich got thirsty after gym or recess, he took a drink from the nearest water fountain at his elementary school.

    Only last month did his family learn that the water bubbling out of some fountains contained high levels of lead, a notorious toxin that can silently damage developing brains and slow growth in little bodies like his.

    Recently, a blood test on the 7-year-old found more than twice the average level of lead for young children, even though as far as anyone knows he's never come in contact with lead paint or tainted soil.
    ...

    One water sample at a Maine elementary school was 41 times higher while another at a Pennsylvania preschool was 14 times higher. And a sink in a music-room bathroom at Caroline Elementary tested this year at 5,000 ppb of lead, results released by the school system show.

    That's the cutoff where the EPA labels a substance “hazardous waste.”
    ..."

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ares/81220916/


  25. #25

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    Something to think about...


    North Saskatchewan oil spill underscores Edmonton’s river reliance | Edmonton Journal

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...urbing-answers

  26. #26

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    I don't think we're special. Most places have a single source water supply. I'm thankful we have such a good one to begin with. Honestly, we're spoiled.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Somewhat water related.... EPCOR is now responsible for drainage ( or will be from Sept 1).

    This could work out very well for the city. If EPCOR can leverage all of this experience and use it to pick up business in water/ waste water/ drainage operations from other municipalities and business across North America we would see the utility make lots of money and thereby bigger dividends being paid back to the city !

    Exciting times.

  28. #28

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    They're already on it, as they've been involved in wastewater in & out of Edmonton for some time. The city transferred Gold Bar to them in 2009 & they've helped design, build and/or run wastewater plants in Vancouver & Regina (amongst others).

    https://www.epcor.com/about/who-we-a...s/default.aspx
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  29. #29

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    I haven't followed this very closely. What's the general feeling, good move or bad move?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Seems to depend on which side of the political spectrum you fall on. The unions are very much opposed to it, and have been putting ads on TV and elsewhere about it as well as publishing a report that was against it. Then again, the council vote didn't seem to fall along that kind of a line, with the fiscal hawks like Caterina and Nickel being against it.

  31. #31

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    Let me rephrase that: is this a good move or bad move for Edmonton taxpayers? I don't give a crap about unions or special interest groups.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  32. #32

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    EPCOR already took care of 3 out of 4 steps in the water treatment cycle & now they'll do the whole shebang.

    1. Water treatment to make water potable.
    2. Distribution of potable water
    3. Collection of drainage <- This is the new part.
    4. Wastewater treatment


    EPCOR has also billed for drainage on behalf of the CoE for a long time as well.

    (I can't really give my opinion on this, but I'll try and dole out as much factual quasi-insider info as I can)
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  33. #33

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    Nothing changes for Joe Edmonton - the City has already negotiated rates for EPCOR for the coming 3 (5?) years. EPCOR has already been handling billing work for the City, so it is part of a streamlining process for the City's Infrastructure department and allows EPCOR to assume full water-cycle operations.

    The benefits are more from a business point of view as the drainage department has projects beyond city scope, for the Edmonton Metropolitan Area and further (Calgary and Regina among others has sewers with Edmonton's stamp on it, I think). The optics of a City department bidding on work has raised eyebrows in the past.

  34. #34
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    I am a bit disturbed by the rising costs to edmontonians for water/drainage services. Epcor seems pretty proud of themselves for keeping their rising rates at like 6% annually for the next 5 years while increasing their dividend to the city. That's pretty substantial. Perhaps if they weren't so worried about increasing dividends to the city these increases could be kept in greater control. My Epcor bill is high enough already thank you!

  35. #35

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    Well, it's supposed to be 3% for the next 5 years which is pretty much the inflation rate. Unless you're getting into the weed business chances are you'll be fine.

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    ^ Except for the odd month here and there, inflation hasn't been at 3% for a very long time.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    I am a bit disturbed by the rising costs to edmontonians for water/drainage services. Epcor seems pretty proud of themselves for keeping their rising rates at like 6% annually for the next 5 years while increasing their dividend to the city. That's pretty substantial. Perhaps if they weren't so worried about increasing dividends to the city these increases could be kept in greater control. My Epcor bill is high enough already thank you!
    EPCOR water rates can only rise up to the rate of inflation & only if they meet all the performance standards/metrics laid out by the CoE.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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