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Thread: Liberals making pipeline strategy top priority

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    Default Liberals making pipeline strategy top priority

    Trudeau convinced that pipeline strategy must be top priority

    Justin Trudeau has told his senior lieutenants to draw up plans to make the Energy East pipeline and the Trans Mountain expansion in British Columbia a reality.

    The prime minister has been convinced by his finance minister, Bill Morneau, and other influential voices around the cabinet table that the pipelines have to be built to achieve the ambitious economic growth targets his government has set.

    But the problem for the Liberals is that this conviction has to be conveyed subtly to a public that has decidedly mixed views on oilsands expansion and pipelines.

    The prime minister has never been an advocate of a Canadian future without oil. He supported the Keystone XL pipeline, and explicitly stated that no country that found 170 billion barrels of oil would leave it in the ground.

    But people with knowledge of the matter suggest he has recently issued instructions that a pipeline strategy has to be top priority.

    The government will make the ultimate decision on whether to approve the proposals, starting with Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain application, on which cabinet is expected to rule by Christmas.


    More here:
    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...e-top-priority
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Hallelujah!
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    I look forward to watching this unfold. I'm glad that reality has set in that a transition away from our wealth of resources is a long process and not some target to lurch at it and the transition isn't to abandon them it's the use them as an opportunity to build off of to build a broader economy.

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    Funny how I haven't seen any of the same right winger, anti-Notley, anti-Trudeau folks speak up lately.

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    I voted for Justin, first time I voted Liberal in my life. My thoughts were that he is a man that thinks of all of Canada, not just his backyard. I was starting to wonder, but now I am thinking, hoping, that I was right after all.

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    As was stated by Deep Throat in All the Presidents Men, "follow the money". A $10 billion deficit is a huge hole to dig yourself out of, if the main source of the money is stopped that hole will only get bigger. Trudeau will not be able to do any significant spending if there is little income, equalization payments will be affected and he will be the PM when the national economy falls apart. So a pragmatic approach is in order. Nobody will stop using oil or gas overnight so even the Montreal metro area needs oil and pipelines are the safest and cheapest way to get it from here to there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I voted for Justin, first time I voted Liberal in my life. ...
    You're 18, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    As was stated by Deep Throat in All the Presidents Men, "follow the money". A $10 billion deficit is a huge hole to dig yourself out of, if the main source of the money is stopped that hole will only get bigger. Trudeau will not be able to do any significant spending if there is little income, equalization payments will be affected and he will be the PM when the national economy falls apart. So a pragmatic approach is in order. Nobody will stop using oil or gas overnight so even the Montreal metro area needs oil and pipelines are the safest and cheapest way to get it from here to there.
    I'd turn off the taps to Coderre and his crowd. Let them buy their oil from elsewhere.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Someone got a wake up call this weekend!! Too funny..

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    As was stated by Deep Throat in All the Presidents Men, "follow the money". A $10 billion deficit is a huge hole to dig yourself out of, if the main source of the money is stopped that hole will only get bigger. Trudeau will not be able to do any significant spending if there is little income, equalization payments will be affected and he will be the PM when the national economy falls apart. So a pragmatic approach is in order. Nobody will stop using oil or gas overnight so even the Montreal metro area needs oil and pipelines are the safest and cheapest way to get it from here to there.
    Moreau had to explain that to JT.

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    At least he has some good hired help

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    Well in spite of not being a fan of Rachel Notely or the current Provincial government credit where credit is due...

    Her speech, which I watched on the weekend on the net, was a darn good one and she made a true effort to clue in her compatriots.

    Good job Ms. Notely

    As far as Trudeau and the Liberals...

    I think Sundance sums it up well in his post (#6). Now can he (and his party) deliver becomes the question....I hope so.

    IMO

    T

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    As was stated by Deep Throat in All the Presidents Men, "follow the money". A $10 billion deficit is a huge hole to dig yourself out of, if the main source of the money is stopped that hole will only get bigger. Trudeau will not be able to do any significant spending if there is little income, equalization payments will be affected and he will be the PM when the national economy falls apart. So a pragmatic approach is in order. Nobody will stop using oil or gas overnight so even the Montreal metro area needs oil and pipelines are the safest and cheapest way to get it from here to there.
    I'd turn off the taps to Coderre and his crowd. Let them buy their oil from elsewhere.
    Doesn't Quebec already get its oil from overseas?

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    Absolutely take their money. They take enough of ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    As was stated by Deep Throat in All the Presidents Men, "follow the money". A $10 billion deficit is a huge hole to dig yourself out of, if the main source of the money is stopped that hole will only get bigger. Trudeau will not be able to do any significant spending if there is little income, equalization payments will be affected and he will be the PM when the national economy falls apart. So a pragmatic approach is in order. Nobody will stop using oil or gas overnight so even the Montreal metro area needs oil and pipelines are the safest and cheapest way to get it from here to there.
    I'd turn off the taps to Coderre and his crowd. Let them buy their oil from elsewhere.
    Doesn't Quebec already get its oil from overseas?
    I'm not sure in what proportion, though. Let the Alberta/NB pipeline bypass his beloved Montreal altogether. That's what he seems to want, isn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Funny how I haven't seen any of the same right winger, anti-Notley, anti-Trudeau folks speak up lately.
    Captain Selfie made a fair number of election promises that he never followed through on. The right wingers are probably rolling their eyes on his new 'promise'. Best to wait and see.
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    Its going to be great but its going to be a slug fist to get this thing going. Litigation is going to tie up every square inch of this thing. First Nations, special interest, foreign funded groups etc TPP etc. It might reach its destination in 20-30 years.
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    ^I hope not. A pipeline shouldn't take more than about 2 years to construct, maybe 3 (its impacted by issues like bird migrations so construction windows are limited). They are built in segments, each segment being constructed at the same time. With Energy East, a lot of the pipe is already there, but needs to be repurposed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Its going to be great but its going to be a slug fist to get this thing going. Litigation is going to tie up every square inch of this thing. First Nations, special interest, foreign funded groups etc TPP etc. It might reach its destination in 20-30 years.
    This is the thing. To many self serving groups stepping in to stop these pipelines. There should be a mechanism in place where the PM can say this is being done for the good of the whole country and it's going to get done. If it's in the national interest that should over ride any objections put forward. Protest all you want but it's still getting done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I hope not. A pipeline shouldn't take more than about 2 years to construct, maybe 3 (its impacted by issues like bird migrations so construction windows are limited). They are built in segments, each segment being constructed at the same time. With Energy East, a lot of the pipe is already there, but needs to be repurposed.
    Yes, At the same time every community along its path will wage war against it. This is going to be our version of Keystone. Plus the dirty oil campain has huge pockets they can launch legal filibusters from Alberta to its destination. Don't forget even its own destination buys foreign oil to process by about 300,000 at its Irving processing plants. We're bucking all that. I'd love to see this thing built yesterday but at least this gets the ball rolling
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  21. #21

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    ^Federal government has jurisdiction in Canada, in much the same way it does in the US when pipelines cross state borders. Even if a province opposes, it can't really stop it, but obviously not a good thing.

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    ^Well if federal government has jurisdiction in Canada it should exercise it. Do the research and ground work to make sure the pipeline is as safe as it can be then build it. Don't let special interest groups get in the way of a national interest.
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    ^that's why there is a national energy board, which is intended to be an independent scientific analysis. But, now its a little more politicized, because the NEB process will be followed by a political one.

    The NEB is an independent federal regulatory agency that was established in 1959 with the mandate to regulate aspects of the energy industry under federal jurisdiction, and to inform the government and public about energy matters.

    Why was the National Energy Board Created?

    In the early post-war years, western Canadian oil and gas resources were discovered and developed for interprovincial and international use. Important policy issues arose regarding the conditions for the construction of new pipelines and the approval of long-term exports, particularly of natural gas.

    The 1957 government of Prime Minister Diefenbaker set up a Royal Commission on Energy to examine whether a national energy board should be created and what authority it should exercise. The Commission in 1959 recommended that a national energy board be established. Prior to the tabling of its report, the 1955 Royal Commission on Canada's Economic Prospects had also recommended that a national energy authority be created to regulate energy exports.

    The government acted promptly on the Commission's recommendations, drafting a legislative proposal and introducing it to Parliament in May 1959. As a result, the National Energy Board Act was proclaimed in November of the same year. The Act transferred to the new Board responsibility for pipelines from the Board of Transport Commissioners and responsibility for oil, gas and electricity exports from the Minister of Trade and Commerce. In addition, it granted the Board responsibility for regulating tolls and tariffs and defined its jurisdiction and status as an independent court of record, an important new factor.

    Since then, the Board has developed its expertise on energy matters and enjoys a respected national and international reputation. In 1991, the Board relocated from Ottawa, Ontario to Calgary, Alberta. In 1994, legislative amendments expanded the Board's jurisdiction to include decision making authority for Frontier lands not administered through provincial/federal management agreements.
    https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/bts/whwr/rhstry-eng.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Federal government has jurisdiction in Canada, in much the same way it does in the US when pipelines cross state borders. Even if a province opposes, it can't really stop it, but obviously not a good thing.
    A First Nations community was able to get Northern gateway pipeline to the BC Supreme court, which could set progress of this pipeline back years. As for the Energy East pipeline, there are environmental hurdles the National Energy Board puts these pipelines through. Also consider that if other Provinces give stewardship of the land back native groups, as BC did to their aboriginal groups, Energy East could face more legal wrangling along its path.

    http://www.theprovince.com/business/...152/story.html
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    FN issues have to be separate from NEB decisions due to treaty rights and traditional rights over the land. It is a jurisdictional issue based around the contracts the Crown signed with FN groups and also the Constitution Act. It has nothing to do with "giving back" rights over the land, it is just about honouring the rights we have always legally acknowledged (but not practically accepted) they have.

    Simply put it is a good idea for companies to plan around FN lands whenever possible.

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    ^ Oil companies such as Kinder Morgan have been doing this since the 1950's.

    Aboriginal groups have had a long history of winning court battles in Canada. FN groups seem to be spending their funding on court battles then over squalor like Attawapiskat, just sayin'
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    It would make jobs for them too.

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    ^ Attawapiskat is too far away from Energy East to affect them in that regard. The point I was trying to make is that FN seem to be spending too much money in environmental legal costs then helping their own people out of the situation they currently face. Attawapiskat as an example.
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    A lot of those people who turn up to protest pipelines are hired by 'Rent a Riot'. Special interest groups that want the pipelines stopped because of ulterior motives. Big organizations backing people to cause mayhem. The government should start cracking down of the leaders of these groups instead of letting them run amok. F.N. also have their go to 'Rent a Riot' personal that can rustle up people to bang drums and protest.
    No matter how safe the government or the oil companies minimize the impact these pipelines protesters are going to bleat it's not enough. Get to the bottom of their organizations and actually find out who is pulling the strings. Then find out what's in it for them. Usually it's to their advantage.
    Last edited by Gemini; 13-04-2016 at 02:04 PM.
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    ^ Tydes Canada for one and Environmental Defence, David Suzuki foundation.
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    ^Yes, and I'm sure they are not doing all that bleating and protesting for free.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Attawapiskat is too far away from Energy East to affect them in that regard. The point I was trying to make is that FN seem to be spending too much money in environmental legal costs then helping their own people out of the situation they currently face. Attawapiskat as an example.
    Not environmental legal costs, though they are often conflated with the environmental movements. Property rights and constitutional rights is what they are arguing on.

    It is also absurd to suggest that FN issues are a result of spending too much on court cases. You have no evidence to back that up at all, and it is dead wrong. The groups who are organized to the degree that they can successfully put forward these cases are often well managed.

    Also please try to avoid the mistake of assuming "First Nations" is a single group of people. It is Nations, plural. That some FN groups are undergoing legal proceedings, and some have corruption issues, does not mean that the two things are linked.

    The analogy is like criticizing the Alberta government because provincial governments have an issue with corruption, and using Quebec as an example. They are two completely different governments doing their own thing, separately.

    FN groups across the country have very different history, values, organizational structure, goals, etc. They range from heavy promotion of traditional lifestyles all the way to extreme entrepreneurial growth and expansion of business. You can't paint them with one brush.
    Last edited by Jaerdo; 13-04-2016 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Someone got a wake up call this weekend!! Too funny..
    Was it you that got the wake-up call? At no point was Trudeau anti-pipeline. If he was for shutting down our economy I would never have voted for him. Nobody out here would have. The only thing that's funny is how clueless you are and how you label things you clearly have no actual knowledge about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Attawapiskat is too far away from Energy East to affect them in that regard. The point I was trying to make is that FN seem to be spending too much money in environmental legal costs then helping their own people out of the situation they currently face. Attawapiskat as an example.
    Not environmental legal costs, though they are often conflated with the environmental movements. Property rights and constitutional rights is what they are arguing on.

    It is also absurd to suggest that FN issues are a result of spending too much on court cases. You have no evidence to back that up at all, and it is dead wrong. The groups who are organized to the degree that they can successfully put forward these cases are often well managed.

    Actually since

    Also please try to avoid the mistake of assuming "First Nations" is a single group of people. It is Nations, plural. That some FN groups are undergoing legal proceedings, and some have corruption issues, does not mean that the two things are linked.

    The analogy is like criticizing the Alberta government because provincial governments have an issue with corruption, and using Quebec as an example. They are two completely different governments doing their own thing, separately.

    FN groups across the country have very different history, values, organizational structure, goals, etc. They range from heavy promotion of traditional lifestyles all the way to extreme entrepreneurial growth and expansion of business. You can't paint them with one brush.
    http://www.lawtimesnews.com/20131111...nal-litigation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Someone got a wake up call this weekend!! Too funny..
    Was it you that got the wake-up call? At no point was Trudeau anti-pipeline. If he was for shutting down our economy I would never have voted for him. Nobody out here would have. The only thing that's funny is how clueless you are and how you label things you clearly have no actual knowledge about.
    Oh yes, he was going to do it AT his leasure. Why the hurry now, take off your rose colored glasses, they really don't suit you. He is a little liar, Mulcair caught him lying about the Saudi contract. That was never signed! Sheesh you Libbies are such sheep.

    So when you fling out clueless, take a look at yourself.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Someone got a wake up call this weekend!! Too funny..
    Was it you that got the wake-up call? At no point was Trudeau anti-pipeline. If he was for shutting down our economy I would never have voted for him. Nobody out here would have. The only thing that's funny is how clueless you are and how you label things you clearly have no actual knowledge about.
    Oh yes, he was going to do it AT his leasure. Why the hurry now, take off your rose colored glasses, they really don't suit you. He is a little liar, Mulcair caught him lying about the Saudi contract. That was never signed! Sheesh you Libbies are such sheep.

    So when you fling out clueless, take a look at yourself.
    Little? I thought he was pretty tall. Or do you mean his lies are little?

    Fill me in please on the actual facts abou the contract.

    As for any lies being new to us, we mustn't forget things like the PC's on royalty trusts, etc.

    I really don't know why people choose sides when it comes to backing people no one can wholly trust for any length of time. Loyalty should be something that is earned and not something that is bought through graft and/or kickbacks to the membership.
    Last edited by KC; 18-04-2016 at 08:29 PM.

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    Whatever KC, whatever..

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    National Energy Board approves Trans Mountain pipeline, with 157 conditions.

    The positive recommendation has cleared a major hurdle for the project, with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s cabinet set to make a final decision by the end of the year.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...line-expansion

    If Trudeau is serious about getting pipelines built hopefully the decision is made before the end of the year.
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  39. #39

    Default The environmental crowd knows no compromise

    Thank you Rex Murphy, for calling it as it is, re the nut cases who invaded the Energy East hearing. At least there is one person in the media who has our back in Alberta:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...-no-compromise

    PS. If Alberta Permier Rachel Notley believes her concessions to the anti-pipeline forces will give her "social license" to build pipelines, she is a child. That crowd knows no compromise. Montreal was just a taste of their tactics. And Premier Rachel Notley should recognize that she has to fight for the oil industry, or its opponents will eventually close it down altogether.
    IMO it's shameful the NEB hearings were cancelled in Montreal.
    Last edited by moahunter; 03-09-2016 at 06:27 PM.

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    Perhaps they are taking a breather to re evaluate their security protocols?
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