Page 42 of 42 FirstFirst ... 323839404142
Results 4,101 to 4,144 of 4144

Thread: Liberals And Trudeau - Performance Review!

  1. #4101
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    What you're describing with Jack is a lack of effort by Canadian officials on behalf of a Canadian citizen.

    What happened with Omar was deliberate actions taken by the (Conservative) Canadian government specifically to deprive a Canadian citizen his Canadian Charter rights.

    Not really the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    I can't believe how many people still don't understand the Omar case, or use it at an opportunity to suggest our government sympathizes with terrorists. Sorry Ken I think this is another case of you having blinders on when it comes to the Trudeau government.
    the supreme court of canada decision was not solely determined by "deliberate actions taken by the (Conservative) Canadian government specifically to deprive a Canadian citizen his Canadian Charter rights". in addition to being based on deliberate actions, the last decision referred to canada's denial of khadr's legal rights by omission, not necessarily commission.

    furthermore, the first of the two prior rulings also said canada had a "duty to protect" khadr and ordered the government to request his return to canada as soon as possible and the second upheld that on appeal.

    if a canadian is a canadian is a canadian, then canada's current liberal government is making the same mistakes as its previous conservative government and setting up the same consequences. if britain is abrogating her responsibilities to repatriate letts as expeditiously as possible under his british citizenship, even if simply to face trial, by stripping him of his british citizenship, is canada not now guilty of the same thing (compounded by no longer having the same option to deny citizenship that britain chose because canada's exercising it would render him stateless)?

    in letts' case, both the current and the previous government are also guilty of opening the door for more of those cases by maintaining the position that it is possible for a single person to hold allegiance to two or more countries at the same time although that's an issue that has been debated elsewhere on this forum already.


    Last edited by kcantor; 20-08-2019 at 12:01 PM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  2. #4102
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I imagine lots of disgruntled liberals are casting a glance at Maxime Bernier and the PPC. Like Justin Max isn't quite ready.
    I doubt it, he's off the charts in some of the things he wants..now he is all pissy , because he can't debate..typical Max.
    He wants to reduce immigration and build a fence along the border. Just like your buddy in DC.
    My buddy in DC? I never suggested I'm a Trump supporter anywhere.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  3. #4103

    Default

    I was responding to H.L.

  4. #4104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    the supreme court of canada decision was not solely determined by "deliberate actions taken by the (Conservative) Canadian government specifically to deprive a Canadian citizen his Canadian Charter rights". in addition to being based on deliberate actions, the last decision referred to canada's denial of khadr's legal rights by omission, not necessarily commission.


    Uh, no.

    Canada actively participated in a process contrary to its international human rights obligations and contributed to K’s ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person, guaranteed by s. 7 of the Charter , not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. Though the process to which K is subject has changed, his claim is based upon the same underlying series of events considered in Khadr 2008.

    https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/sc.../7842/index.do


    Active participation is commission, not omission.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    furthermore, the first of the two prior rulings also said canada had a "duty to protect" khadr and ordered the government to request his return to canada as soon as possible and the second upheld that on appeal.


    As held in that case, the Charter applies to the participation of Canadian officials in a regime later found to be in violation of fundamental rights protected by international law. There is a sufficient connection between the government’s participation in the illegal process and the deprivation of K’s liberty and security of the person.


    The Canadian government, via the actions of Canadian officials actively participated in an illegal process to deprive a Canadian citizen his fundamental, inalienable rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    if a canadian is a canadian is a canadian, then canada's current liberal government is making the same mistakes as its previous conservative government and setting up the same consequences. if britain is abrogating her responsibilities to repatriate letts as expeditiously as possible under his british citizenship, even if simply to face trial, by stripping him of his british citizenship, is canada not now guilty of the same thing (compounded by no longer having the same option to deny citizenship that britain chose because canada's exercising it would render him stateless)?


    Once again, Khadr's case is fundamentally about the Canadian Government actively participating in an illegal process wherein the goal was to deprive a Canadian citizen his Canadian rights at the hands of Canadian government officials.

    The interrogation of a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors, offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects.
    Until such time as Canada actively participates in an illegal process to deprive a Canadian citizen his Canadian rights through the direct actions of Canadian government officials there's simply no comparison between Letts & Khadr.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  5. #4105
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I imagine lots of disgruntled liberals are casting a glance at Maxime Bernier and the PPC. Like Justin Max isn't quite ready.
    I doubt it, he's off the charts in some of the things he wants..now he is all pissy , because he can't debate..typical Max.
    He wants to reduce immigration and build a fence along the border. Just like your buddy in DC.
    My buddy in DC? I never suggested I'm a Trump supporter anywhere.
    Some posters just ASSume, if you don't
    go into any of the Trump threads and cuss at him daily, then you like him. Take no notice, they are scared little boys, that's what I think. Trump lives rent free in their heads,..
    I, apparently love his tweets, when a) I seldom see any, unless posted or the media mentions them and b) it's a lie made up from a hateful poster
    Animals are my passion.

  6. #4106
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    482

    Default

    Since letts is a Canadian citizen ( the Brit's beat us on that on - Canada cannot now strip him of his citizenship as that would render him stateless). I do not think that helps letts at all. Being a Canadian citizen does not mean you are immune from prosecution in other countries. I am sure there are hundreds of other Canadians serving jail time in other countries.
    This does mean though when letts has served his term in a UK jail, he can ( and most probably ) be sent back to Canada.

    Is this the kind of society we want ? If we had stripped him of his Canadian citizenship before the Brits, then the Brit's could not have done this. Say what you want, if a person has another citizenship other than Canada, and is convicted of terrorism, or membership of a terrorist organization in other said country . I would rather not have this person ever in Canada.

    I heard on one radio show that this guy even has a baby daughter in Iraq ( I think), that makes her now a Canadian citizen. If this letts guy had a common law relationship with the woman, that would entitle her to Canadian citizenship. wow... all of this because of JT and his lofty ideas.
    Last edited by rupikhalon001; 20-08-2019 at 01:58 PM.

  7. #4107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Some posters just ASSume, if you don't
    go into any of the Trump threads and cuss at him daily, then you like him. Take no notice, they are scared little boys, that's what I think. Trump lives rent free in their heads,..
    I, apparently love his tweets, when a) I seldom see any, unless posted or the media mentions them and b) it's a lie made up from a hateful poster
    Playing the victim card?

    H.L., you don't fool anyone. Everyone knows that you are a Trump apologist and fawn over his every word, very seldom questioning his statements or actions no matter how despicable.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  8. #4108
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    I don't even know anymore :/
    Posts
    1,359

    Default

    Elections Canada slammed after warning groups climate change may be ‘partisan’ issue


    Critics are speaking out following a warning from an Elections Canada official that discussing the perils of climate change during the upcoming federal campaign could be deemed partisan activity.
    Whelp, looks like we're going the way of the states, where facts don't matter. But I guess we've been on that path for a while.

    According to the report, Gray states the official said that because Maxime Bernier, leader of the self-founded People’s Party of Canada, has expressed doubts about the legitimacy of climate change, any group that promotes it as real or an emergency could be considered partisan.
    So because someone doesn't believe it, it makes it partisan? Elizebeth May makes an excellent point, all our data and research points to smoking being bad, but if a Politician was to say it's actually good, does that make it partisan?
    Suppose a politician decided smoking is good for you, would doctors have to register as third parties in an election to stress importance of kicking the habit?”

  9. #4109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    Since letts is a Canadian citizen ( the Brit's beat us on that on - Canada cannot now strip him of his citizenship as that would render him stateless). I do not think that helps letts at all. Being a Canadian citizen does not mean you are immune from prosecution in other countries. I am sure there are hundreds of other Canadians serving jail time in other countries.
    This does mean though when letts has served his term in a UK jail, he can ( and most probably ) be sent back to Canada.

    Is this the kind of society we want ? If we had stripped him of his Canadian citizenship before the Brits, then the Brit's could not have done this. Say what you want, if a person has another citizenship other than Canada, and is convicted of terrorism, or membership of a terrorist organization in other said country . I would rather not have this person ever in Canada.

    I heard on one radio show that this guy even has a baby daughter in Iraq ( I think), that makes her now a Canadian citizen. If this letts guy had a common law relationship with the woman, that would entitle her to Canadian citizenship. wow... all of this because of JT and his lofty ideas.
    It probably would have been better for Letts if the British didn't abandon him. After all they have a more extensive international network to help out their citizens abroad than we do, probably in part a legacy of their previous extensive colonial network. On the other hand, Canada is more well regarded by some countries because we don't have that colonial involvement. In any event, despite the Conservative rhetoric, I doubt any Canadian politician will make much of an effort to assist him. Unlike others, he was an adult so he clearly made his own choices.

  10. #4110
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    482

    Default

    omg, this is now getting ridiculous. He always expected Canada to do something. Here's the real nub, since he did not leave Canada to join the terrorist groups, he cannot be charged with a crime in that category here.
    Basically he'd be a free person when he comes here.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi...isis-1.5253121

  11. #4111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    omg, this is now getting ridiculous. He always expected Canada to do something. Here's the real nub, since he did not leave Canada to join the terrorist groups, he cannot be charged with a crime in that category here.
    Basically he'd be a free person when he comes here.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi...isis-1.5253121
    Well, I guess like a lot of things, it rests on legalities. I don't know the details, but it might involve when he left Canada and how long he was in the UK before going there. If he just went to the UK to catch a connecting flight that would be different than if he spent several years in the UK before going to the mid-east.

    In any event he said it himself, going there was one of the stupidest things he did, so I suppose for now he is going to have live with the consequences. The UK has washed its hands of him and Canada doesn't seem to want him either, so unless he can somehow escape or get out of jail there and then swim across the ocean (you got to think he would be blacklisted on airlines too), we probably wont have to deal with him.

  12. #4112
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    3,006

    Default

    Letts is desperate. Playing up his tenuous connections to Canada is pretty predictable is its the only card he's got left to play even though he was born, raised and got radicalized in the UK.

    Stripping Letts of his British citizenship is despicable and wrong as he is their home-grown terrorist, not ours. We've got enough of our home-grown terrorists to deal with, without getting the UK's homegrown terrorists off-loaded onto us as well. Even Andrew Scheer seems to have grudgingly conceded this. The only reason the UK was able to do so in this instance is because their homegrown British terrorist happened to be a dual British/Canadian citizen due his father being born in Canada.

  13. #4113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Some posters just ASSume, if you don't
    go into any of the Trump threads and cuss at him daily, then you like him. Take no notice, they are scared little boys, that's what I think. Trump lives rent free in their heads,..
    I, apparently love his tweets, when a) I seldom see any, unless posted or the media mentions them and b) it's a lie made up from a hateful poster
    Playing the victim card?

    H.L., you don't fool anyone. Everyone knows that you are a Trump apologist and fawn over his every word, very seldom questioning his statements or actions no matter how despicable.
    Victim card?!?! Then the slimy “everyone knows” tactic. Hilarious.

    Mr PRT’s seems to believe the old religious indoctrination approach to war mongering: “If you’re not for me you’re against me” (Matthew 12:30 - King James Version? The religion of peace?)
    Last edited by KC; 20-08-2019 at 07:28 PM.

  14. #4114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Some posters just ASSume, if you don't
    go into any of the Trump threads and cuss at him daily, then you like him. Take no notice, they are scared little boys, that's what I think. Trump lives rent free in their heads,..
    I, apparently love his tweets, when a) I seldom see any, unless posted or the media mentions them and b) it's a lie made up from a hateful poster
    Playing the victim card?

    H.L., you don't fool anyone. Everyone knows that you are a Trump apologist and fawn over his every word, very seldom questioning his statements or actions no matter how despicable.
    Victim card?!?! Then the slimy “everyone knows” tactic. Hilarious.

    Mr PRT’s seems to believe the old religious indoctrination approach to war mongering: “If you’re not for me you’re against me” (Matthew 12:30 - King James Version? The religion of peace?)
    Sorry, your argument is a fallacy. I did not make binary choice statement. I just called out H.L. for her hypocrisy.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  15. #4115
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Some posters just ASSume, if you don't
    go into any of the Trump threads and cuss at him daily, then you like him. Take no notice, they are scared little boys, that's what I think. Trump lives rent free in their heads,..
    I, apparently love his tweets, when a) I seldom see any, unless posted or the media mentions them and b) it's a lie made up from a hateful poster
    Playing the victim card?

    H.L., you don't fool anyone. Everyone knows that you are a Trump apologist and fawn over his every word, very seldom questioning his statements or actions no matter how despicable.
    Victim card?!?! Then the slimy “everyone knows” tactic. Hilarious.

    Mr PRT’s seems to believe the old religious indoctrination approach to war mongering: “If you’re not for me you’re against me” (Matthew 12:30 - King James Version? The religion of peace?)
    He's a bitter old troll , on here 24/7 , he has no other life, ( other than Trump) , and to post after me like some poor old hounddog...he's good for a laugh, but Billy no mates, has become a real saddo on this forum..
    Animals are my passion.

  16. #4116

    Default

    Meanwhile...

    Trans Mountain mobilizes workforce to start pipeline expansion, expects completion by mid-2022
    Construction to soon begin in Edmonton, Burnaby, B.C., CEO says

    The federally owned Trans Mountain Corp. said Wednesday it has issued "notice to proceed" directives to construction contractors, mobilizing the workforce it needs to expand the pipeline.

    "I am pleased to announce another significant milestone for the Trans Mountain expansion project," the corporation's CEO, Ian Anderson, said in release.

    "With the first wave of regulatory approvals complete, we are confident that we have a path forward by which the expansion project construction can commence."

    Contractors are expected to begin mobilizing equipment and crews in "select areas" in August and September.

    "Construction work will soon begin in communities along the route, including along the right-of-way in Alberta between Edmonton and Edson, and in the Greater Edmonton area," the corporation said in Wednesday's release.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tice-1.5254743
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    It's not like everyone was waiting in their trucks with the engines running Ken. Note the date.

    Trans Mountain pipeline construction to resume in Burnaby after NEB approval
    August 3, 2019 5:30 pm

    The National Energy Board (NEB) has given the green light for construction to resume this year at two Burnaby, B.C., terminals linked to the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.


    In a letter sent Thursday to Trans Mountain Canada, the NEB approved Trans Mountain’s request to resume work at the Westridge Marine Terminal and Kinder Morgan’s Burnaby terminal.


    Construction will also ramp up again on the Burnaby Mountain Tunnel that will connect the two terminals.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/5724245/t...ction-resumes/
    And the main reason that things got as tied up as they did was that the Harper era deregulations were found to be unconstitutional in regards to environmental and native consultation. So they had to go back and do it again.

    But I'm sure you were just too worried what sort of socks people are wearing to pay attention.
    "First, the Government of Canada has approved the Kinder Morgan Trans Mountain Expansion Project.

    This pipeline will twin a line that has been in operation since 1953, which extends from Edmonton, Alberta, to Burnaby, British Columbia.

    The project will effectively triple our capacity to get Canadian energy resources to international markets beyond the Unites States.

    It will create 15,000 new, middle class jobs – the majority of them in the trades.

    This major initiative will get hardworking Canadians back to work, put food on the table for middle class families, and grow and strengthen our communities.


    It will give much needed new hope to thousands of hard-working people in Alberta’s conventional energy sector, who have suffered a great deal over the past few years.
    Aside from the many and obvious economic benefits, we approved this project because it meets the strictest of environmental standards, and fits within our national climate plan."

    sound familiar? that was the boy wonder announcing his approval of the trans mountain pipeline expansion. why do i call it "his" approval? because he followed that up with:

    "to all Canadians — I want to say this: if I thought this project was unsafe for the BC coast, I would reject it. This is a decision based on rigorous debate, on science and on evidence. We have not been and will not be swayed by political arguments -- be they local, regional or national."

    you can read the whole thing here:

    https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/speeches/20...e-announcement

    and, for the record, i neither know nor care what sort of socks he wore that day.

    "that day", by the way, was november 29, 2016.

    if any of those 15,000 new middle class job workers were waiting in their trucks with the engines running, it's pretty much guaranteed that they've all have run out of gas in the interim.

    and, as the boy wonder says himself, the decision had nothing to do with harper - or anyone else for that matter - and everything to do with his "thoughts" as to what is or isn't unsafe.

  17. #4117

    Default

    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  18. #4118
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,471

    Default

    I was so happy to hear that the pipeline was a go. Then I heard they haven't finished consulting with indigenous groups , or that we still need permits..hurry up!
    Animals are my passion.

  19. #4119

    Default

    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!

  20. #4120
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,471

    Default

    Plus greenie Hudema said right out, prepare to see many protests, the last time that happened , they lived there, camped there. Your move JT!
    Animals are my passion.

  21. #4121

    Default

    JT lives in HL head rent free
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  22. #4122
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    so which is it guys?

    full speed ahead on all those jobs or still in consultation mode and even then subject to judicial intervention and review?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  23. #4123

    Default

    Both?

    The corporation expects to receive those additional approvals and permits "over the coming months" and, provided that happens, says the expanded pipeline will be in service by mid-2022.
    Trans Mountain expects 4,200 workers will be employed along the corridor by late 2019 and says it "remains committed to prioritizing and maximizing Indigenous, local and regional hiring to the greatest extent possible."
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tice-1.5254743
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  24. #4124

    Default

    15,000 middle class jobs.

    Hmm. So how many years will each of these 15,000 jobs last?

    Source: pm.gc.ca/en/news/speeches/2016/11/29/prime-minister-justin-trudeaus-pipeline-announcement

    https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/speeches/20...e-announcement




    Opinion: 15,000 Trans Mountain jobs are an illusion
    | Times Colonist

    “When Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced approval of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project, he said it “will create 15,000 new, middle-class jobs — the majority of them in the trades.”
    Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr repeatedly points to this figure to justify the federal government’s approval. “The project is expected to create 15,000 new jobs during construction,” he says.
    article continues below
    http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion...ion-1.22286166

    Last edited by KC; 22-08-2019 at 09:54 AM.

  25. #4125
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Edmonton area.
    Posts
    8,141

    Default

    There’s construction but then if the pipeline is used to capacity and ships 500,000 more barrels of oil each day I would imagine it would mean a lot of jobs in a lot of different places
    Last edited by Drumbones; 22-08-2019 at 09:56 AM.

  26. #4126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    so which is it guys?

    full speed ahead on all those jobs or still in consultation mode and even then subject to judicial intervention and review?
    So which is it Ken, should Trudeau pressure the courts or not pressure the courts? Simply override them? Stack the courts with partisans like south of the border so his secret agenda will live on long after he's out of office, regardless of how he does this fall?

    I know, simply start referring to them as "activist judges" and turn the people against the courts.

  27. #4127
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    so which is it guys?

    full speed ahead on all those jobs or still in consultation mode and even then subject to judicial intervention and review?
    So which is it Ken, should Trudeau pressure the courts or not pressure the courts? Simply override them? Stack the courts with partisans like south of the border so his secret agenda will live on long after he's out of office, regardless of how he does this fall?

    I know, simply start referring to them as "activist judges" and turn the people against the courts.
    nice deflection! not an answer mind you but a nice deflection nonetheless.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  28. #4128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    There’s construction but then if the pipeline is used to capacity and ships 500,000 more barrels of oil each day I would imagine it would mean a lot of jobs in a lot of different places
    How so?

    Let’s try to think it through:

    1) Any pipeline capacity over existing production levels will create opportunity to develop more extraction capacity. So more temporary construction jobs. Plus a few operating the plant once it’s created. Those operational jobs are long term. (Probably no gain on admin. as Corp HQ covers that.) Though this area is increasingly being automated so mining and operations jobs may not last as long as hoped. 4-5 yrs? 10-yrs? Future supply and maintenance jobs would be created on restarting mothballed and future plants.

    2) Any production curtailment that is freed up should restore some jobs at existing operating and currently under shipping oil sands plants, but how many? Turning up the taps dies what in terms of a plant’s workforce?

    3) connecting new and existing plants to the pipeline could add construction and maintenance jobs

    4) likely quite a few dock and tanker jobs in BC and beyond

    On the job loss / downside:

    1) Lost jobs will be at the rail operations. (The inefficiency of shipping by rail could have created more jobs than a connected pipeline creates



    Financial gains from reduced differentials:

    The pipeline creates financial returns. Higher tax and royalty receipts. Higher dividends to owners. Higher bonuses to executives.
    Last edited by KC; 22-08-2019 at 10:14 AM.

  29. #4129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post

    So which is it Ken, should Trudeau pressure the courts or not pressure the courts? Simply override them? Stack the courts with partisans like south of the border so his secret agenda will live on long after he's out of office, regardless of how he does this fall?

    I know, simply start referring to them as "activist judges" and turn the people against the courts.
    nice deflection! not an answer mind you but a nice deflection nonetheless.

    It is not a deflection but a real question that kkozoriz correctly points out. Some went out of their minds over SNC Lavalin and Trudeau's actions but those same people insinuate that Trudeau should run roughshod over the Courts to save Alberta jobs.

    You can't have it both ways.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  30. #4130
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ...

    You can't have it both ways.
    you're absolutely right, you can't have things both ways.

    but in saying that, you're also deflecting and not answering my question to the two of you. it's not about what i think should or shouldn't happen.

    you said the recent notices prove jt was interested in jobs in alberta and delivering them.

    kk said nothing is settled and things are still open to the courts stepping in before anything proceeds.

    and you were both asked which it is.

    and neither of you has answered.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  31. #4131

    Default

    As far as I understand they can proceed. BUT at any time, any party can take them to Court.

    Are there any current Court issues pending or preventing construction that I am not aware of?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  32. #4132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    so which is it guys?

    full speed ahead on all those jobs or still in consultation mode and even then subject to judicial intervention and review?
    So which is it Ken, should Trudeau pressure the courts or not pressure the courts? Simply override them? Stack the courts with partisans like south of the border so his secret agenda will live on long after he's out of office, regardless of how he does this fall?

    I know, simply start referring to them as "activist judges" and turn the people against the courts.
    nice deflection! not an answer mind you but a nice deflection nonetheless.
    The answer was right in the story Ken. Yes, it's a project. And yes, projects have different phases. Apparently you won't be satisfied until they dig the trench simultaneously along it's entire length and drop in a fully connected pipe.

    Could there be more court challenges? Of course. There always can be. That doesn't mean that they'll be accepted by the courts. It may be found to be frivolous. Or that the petitioner doesn't have standing. Or that it's dealing with something that's already been decided. Or any number of ways it can play out.

    And in your mind, that's entirely Trudeau's fault.

    Harper tried "streamlining" the process and it got us where we are today. Trudeau proposed "streamlining" and Alberta started crying separatism. Maybe you figure that Scheer has a magic wand hidden in his suit and will magically make pipeline approvals simple, straightforward and totally conflict free. Or maybe it's Singh with the wand. Or May. Or Bernier. Or even DeCarlo.

    Or should every pipeline get approval as soon as it's proposed? Draw a line on a map with a straightedge. Pronounce that it's going THERE! And have shovels in the ground right after lunch.

    That's pretty much what the Czar did with the Trans-Siberian Railroad. You can do stuff like that when you have absolute power.

  33. #4133
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    As far as I understand they can proceed. BUT at any time, any party can take them to Court.

    Are there any current Court issues pending or preventing construction that I am not aware of?
    there are a dozen already consolidated under docket 19-a-35:

    https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/pplctnflng...ex-eng.html#s1

    and we're still waiting for this one:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...onse-1.5148568

    this one is interesting because it was the federal government's decision not to consent to have this heard directly by the supreme court and insist that it be heard first in bc so what uncertainty there is until that happens rests with the federal government.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  34. #4134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ...

    You can't have it both ways.
    you're absolutely right, you can't have things both ways.

    but in saying that, you're also deflecting and not answering my question to the two of you. it's not about what i think should or shouldn't happen.

    you said the recent notices prove jt was interested in jobs in alberta and delivering them.

    kk said nothing is settled and things are still open to the courts stepping in before anything proceeds.

    and you were both asked which it is.

    and neither of you has answered.
    Interesting that all the constant delays and court challenges related to the two major other pipelines in progress are seldom mentioned. I suspect that is because they are to the US, so Trudeau can't be easily blamed for them.

    It is a free country both here and in the US and people can challenge things in court if they think they have a case. If it is frivolous, it is dismissed. If not then it is looked into further. The court decisions to delay things on any of these pipelines are not the fault of the respective elected Federal officials, whether they be Trudeau or Trump, but of course it may be politically convenient for partisans to blame who they want for them.

  35. #4135

    Default

    I imagine Ken walked into city hall one morning, got all the permits he needed for his reno on Jasper and had PCL on site by just after lunch. That's why he's having trouble wrapping his head around this.

  36. #4136
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    so which is it guys?

    full speed ahead on all those jobs or still in consultation mode and even then subject to judicial intervention and review?
    So which is it Ken, should Trudeau pressure the courts or not pressure the courts? Simply override them? Stack the courts with partisans like south of the border so his secret agenda will live on long after he's out of office, regardless of how he does this fall?

    I know, simply start referring to them as "activist judges" and turn the people against the courts.
    nice deflection! not an answer mind you but a nice deflection nonetheless.
    The answer was right in the story Ken. Yes, it's a project. And yes, projects have different phases. Apparently you won't be satisfied until they dig the trench simultaneously along it's entire length and drop in a fully connected pipe.

    Could there be more court challenges? Of course. There always can be. That doesn't mean that they'll be accepted by the courts. It may be found to be frivolous. Or that the petitioner doesn't have standing. Or that it's dealing with something that's already been decided. Or any number of ways it can play out.

    And in your mind, that's entirely Trudeau's fault.

    Harper tried "streamlining" the process and it got us where we are today. Trudeau proposed "streamlining" and Alberta started crying separatism. Maybe you figure that Scheer has a magic wand hidden in his suit and will magically make pipeline approvals simple, straightforward and totally conflict free. Or maybe it's Singh with the wand. Or May. Or Bernier. Or even DeCarlo.

    Or should every pipeline get approval as soon as it's proposed? Draw a line on a map with a straightedge. Pronounce that it's going THERE! And have shovels in the ground right after lunch.

    That's pretty much what the Czar did with the Trans-Siberian Railroad. You can do stuff like that when you have absolute power.
    the answer is right in the story????

    i didn't see any quotes from you in the story.

    furthermore, just like i didn't ask what i thought (i know what i think), i didn't ask what the reporter thought.

    i asked what you thought.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  37. #4137
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I imagine Ken walked into city hall one morning, got all the permits he needed for his reno on Jasper and had PCL on site by just after lunch. That's why he's having trouble wrapping his head around this.
    if that's what you imagine - even sarcastically - it shows you're simply avoiding the question.

    i know damn well until all the permits are issued and all of the appeals are heard you don't have certainty whether that's for the brighton block or for trans-mountain.

    the question that was asked - in advance of all of those permits being issued and appeals being heard - was whether jt has actually delivered on those 15,000 jobs (without getting sidetracked on whether it should be 15,000 or 1,500 or something in between).

    Edmonton PRT finally responded ""yes" but subject to any appeals that he is unaware of being heard".

    i'm assuming your answer will ultimately be ""no" until all appeals have been heard" but i don't want to presume to answer for you.

    damned if i know why it's so hard for you both to answer what was a pretty simple question that only asked you what you really thought.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  38. #4138

    Default

    As stated Ken, it's both. Work is getting underway on the ends. Theres still work to be done on some of the middle bits.

    But unless it's all underway simultaneously, to you it's not underway at all.

    How many consultations did you have to go through with numerous property owners and First Nations and other governments? How many environmental assessments did you have to do in regards to the effects your project would have on water quality, marine life and the like? Did you get approval from a prior city council to proceed and then have the courts rule that the terms under which you were given approval were not constitutional?

    Pipelinius creatus!!!




  39. #4139

    Default

    Kcantor, your answer is "maybe" and that is 100% certain.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  40. #4140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^ see, that proves that the useless Justin Trudeau is not interested in creating jobs in Alberta...
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yeah, hurry up so that the courts have reason to step in again! Then you can blame Trudeau again!
    so which is it guys?

    full speed ahead on all those jobs or still in consultation mode and even then subject to judicial intervention and review?
    So which is it Ken, should Trudeau pressure the courts or not pressure the courts? Simply override them? Stack the courts with partisans like south of the border so his secret agenda will live on long after he's out of office, regardless of how he does this fall?

    I know, simply start referring to them as "activist judges" and turn the people against the courts.
    nice deflection! not an answer mind you but a nice deflection nonetheless.
    The answer was right in the story Ken. Yes, it's a project. And yes, projects have different phases. Apparently you won't be satisfied until they dig the trench simultaneously along it's entire length and drop in a fully connected pipe.

    Could there be more court challenges? Of course. There always can be. That doesn't mean that they'll be accepted by the courts. It may be found to be frivolous. Or that the petitioner doesn't have standing. Or that it's dealing with something that's already been decided. Or any number of ways it can play out.

    And in your mind, that's entirely Trudeau's fault.

    Harper tried "streamlining" the process and it got us where we are today. Trudeau proposed "streamlining" and Alberta started crying separatism. Maybe you figure that Scheer has a magic wand hidden in his suit and will magically make pipeline approvals simple, straightforward and totally conflict free. Or maybe it's Singh with the wand. Or May. Or Bernier. Or even DeCarlo.

    Or should every pipeline get approval as soon as it's proposed? Draw a line on a map with a straightedge. Pronounce that it's going THERE! And have shovels in the ground right after lunch.

    That's pretty much what the Czar did with the Trans-Siberian Railroad. You can do stuff like that when you have absolute power.
    There have been so many delays/appeals in this project for so many years, that only a fool would believe that we're on our way because of yet one more announcement. Remember how the Notley government went on full delirious cheering mode when an earlier "positive" announcement was made a couple years ago? A lot of egg on the face after things went south directly after that. If it takes actual shovels in the ground and pipe being connected to make a believer, then I am with Ken on this. It's well past even Missouri time now - show me.

  41. #4141

    Default

    Even when there's construction at both ends Ken won't be satisfied. As long a Trudeau is in power, he'll deny it even once oil starts flowing. He'll just sit back and chant "Fake news" and "I can't hear you" while sticking his fingers in his ears.

  42. #4142
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,898

    Default

    ^

    i think the only 100% certainty is that you don't know the end result any more than i do.

    ^^

    unless it's all underway it's not underway at all? actually, yes, although it's not really about whether some of it is underway or not. if all of it never gets completed it really doesn't matter if some of it started does it?

    and now that answers have gone from yes to maybe and from no to both and from deflection to silly analogies and sillier memes and even sillier projections of what i think, what i will think and what i will say and do, i'll cede the floor and the discussion to you both.

    enjoy.
    Last edited by kcantor; 22-08-2019 at 01:34 PM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  43. #4143

    Default

    Wake me up when the first oil flows*.




    *hopefully out of the end and not the sides...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  44. #4144
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    6,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^

    i think the only 100% certainty is that you don't know the end result any more than i do.

    ^^

    unless it's all underway it's not underway at all? actually, yes, although it's not really about whether some of it is underway or not. if all of it never gets completed it really doesn't matter if some of it started does it?

    and now that answers have gone from yes to maybe and from no to both and from deflection to silly analogies and sillier memes and even sillier projections of what i think, what i will think and what i will say and do, i'll cede the floor and the discussion to you both.

    enjoy.

    Were pouring concrete West of the city, both sons saw a lot of oil rig traffic. .what a shame it didnt happen earlier, so many people declared bankruptcy.
    Animals are my passion.

Page 42 of 42 FirstFirst ... 323839404142

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •