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Thread: Liberals And Trudeau - Performance Review!

  1. #1801
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    To be fair, they haven't committed any crime in this country.
    to be fair, that isn’t quite the same as concluding that they haven’t committed any crime or even that those acts wouldn’t also be considered a crime if committed in this country.

    perhaps the answer is to simply allow extradition on request to those countries visited by choice by the individual in question where the not a crime in this country occurred? the penalties would not be more than those accepted by the individual while participating in those not a crime in this country events.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  2. #1802

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I don't understand why they are being watched instead of simply charged:

    83.202. Leaving Canada to commit offence that is terrorist activity

    83.202 Everyone who leaves or attempts to leave Canada, or goes or attempts to go on board a conveyance with the intent to leave Canada, for the purpose of committing an act or omission outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would be an indictable offence under this or any other Act of Parliament if the act or omission constituting the offence also constitutes a terrorist activity is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 14 years.
    http://yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-can...ence-terrorist
    First, I don't think the guy here left Canada. Second, I assume there has to be enough evidence for the police to be confident they can proceed with charges and that the guy is a possible threat, not just someone making an angry rant.

    Note that:



    The Conservatives responded by giving $10 million to some geeks.





    ..."in 2014, the government was aware of 80 people who had returned to the country after "engaging in terrorist activities and training" elsewhere in the world. “ (see below)




    More Canadians travelling abroad to join ISIS, other terrorist groups, report says
    At least 60 people have returned to Canada after spending time fighting in Iraq, Syria

    John Paul Tasker · CBC News
    August 25, 2016
    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...port-1.3735434

    Stephen Harper pledges $10M to research terrorism, radicalization

    Conservative leader has made security a primary campaign issue
    September 11, 2015


    “Harper said Friday that a Tory government would provide $10 million over five years to the Kanishka Project, ... — to better understand radicalization and effective ways to prevent attacks.

    The Kanishka Project is administered through Public Safety Canada and has funded research by academics. “


    “The Tory release said that, in 2014, the government was aware of 80 people who had returned to the country after "engaging in terrorist activities and training" elsewhere in the world. “





    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics...acks-1.3223995
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Conservatives ask why the ISIS fighters in Canada aren't in jail. Justin Trudeau dodges the question, and instead calls conservatives islamophobes:

    https://twitter.com/CPAC_TV/status/935594299294490624



    Bumping my post for Mr. Oilers to see.

    Plus some experts speak here (listen or read transcript):


    What should Canada do with foreign fighters who return home?

    Guests: Lorne Dawson, Phil Gurski, Craig Forcese

    The Current
    What should Canada do with foreign fighters who return home?
    LISTEN SHARE

    AMT: Hello I'm Anna Maria Tremonti and you're listening to The Current. ...

    “...
    PHIL GURSKY: Tremendous amount of resources, Anna Maria. Most Canadians when I ask them you know how many people does it take to fall somebody. They say well you know maybe five or six or seven. In fact the numbers are much greater than that. The estimates that I've been given by my RCMP friends is that to do a full investigation on a one person, that includes surveillance, that includes monitoring their communications and includes running human agents, resources is between 20 and 40 officers per person. So if all 60 came back tomorrow, you're looking at between twelve hundred and twenty four hundred officers just to monitor the returning foreign fighter threat. And that's you know well beside the threat of other Canadians who may be radicalized to violence here.

    AMT: So in other words we just don't have the manpower or the money.

    PHIL GURSKY: Well we could.
    And certainly I know that the RCMP a few years ago, when Islamic state was at its height, say 2014 or so, was taking resources from other investigations and those investigations included major drug investigations, maybe major crime investigation. So you're ...”

    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/t...ript-1.4421906

    Bolding is mine.


    Just spend more seems to be a solution.



    .
    Last edited by KC; 29-11-2017 at 08:57 AM.

  3. #1803

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    ^They consciously went to foreign country to fight for, or provide support to, a group who were committing mass murder, rape, sexual slavery and genocide. We have terrorism laws that are applicable and can be used, Trudeau though doesn't want to offend Muslims (even though most Muslims deplore ISIS), and believes the Liberal dogma that everyone can be reformed no matter how horrendous the crimes they have committed, so is doing squat. I just hope he doesn't hand out anymore $10m cheques to compensate them for the tough living conditions they must have experienced while overseas.

  4. #1804

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    I just hope he doesn't hand out anymore $10m cheques to compensate them for the tough living conditions they must have experienced while overseas.
    You sound stupider & stupider every time you incorrectly & intentionally ignorantly recap your "understanding" of Khadr & the other settlement cases.

    Between this & the whole "corporate profits are more important than human rights" schtick yesterday, you've sunk to new lows in being deplorable.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  5. #1805

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^They consciously went to foreign country to fight for, or provide support to, a group who were committing mass murder, rape, sexual slavery and genocide. We have terrorism laws that are applicable and can be used, Trudeau though doesn't want to offend Muslims (even though most Muslims deplore ISIS), and believes the Liberal dogma that everyone can be reformed no matter how horrendous the crimes they have committed, so is doing squat. I just hope he doesn't hand out anymore $10m cheques to compensate them for the tough living conditions they must have experienced while overseas.
    So why did the Conservatives do absolutely nothing different?

    Have you forgotten that they were in power for a while not long ago?

  6. #1806

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    ^I think there is a difference between someone who went there, realized their mistake, and came back, and someone who stayed to the bitter end, but agreed, the Conservatives I think should have been tougher on this as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Conservatives ask why the ISIS fighters in Canada aren't in jail. Justin Trudeau dodges the question, and instead calls conservatives islamophobes:

    https://twitter.com/CPAC_TV/status/935594299294490624
    Wrong answer! He's busy on his sorry tour right now, complete with same handkerchief.

  8. #1808
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    To be fair, they haven't committed any crime in this country.
    I might be wrong but I thought that going overseas to fight for IS was a crime.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  9. #1809

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    ^its a criminal offense to go overseas to commit terrorism. The Conservatives also wanted to strip citizenship in those circumstances where someone had obtained citizenship from other than birth.. this is from 2014:

    Canada's public safety minister Steven Blaney declined comment on the deaths. Spokesperson Jason Tamming released the following statement on the ministry’s behalf:

    "While we cannot speak about specific cases, our Government is firmly committed to fighting terrorist groups who could pose a threat to Canadians. That is why we made it a criminal offence to go overseas to engage in terrorism and why we took action to strip the citizenship of those convicted of terrorist offences.”

    "We will always stand up for the Canadian values of freedom, democracy and the rule of law against these abhorrent terrorists.”

    "We will not be deterred by threats from ISIL or those that would travel overseas to join them."
    http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-br...isis-1.2162041

  10. #1810

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    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle35675424/

    The Federal Court has nullified government attempts to strip Canadian citizenship from more than 300 people after an earlier judgment struck down key provisions of the Citizenship Act introduced by the former Conservative government under Stephen Harper.
    The earlier ruling, in May, declared those provisions inoperative because they were an expedited process that deprived individuals of the right to an oral hearing and did not take into account humanitarian and compassionate considerations.
    And the ruling mentioned?

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle34947063/

    In a decision Wednesday, Justice Jocelyne Gagné said the law violates Section 2(e) of the Canadian Bill of Rights, which says no law should deprive someone of the right to a fair hearing.
    Oh look, another instance of moahunter advocating for the government to be above the rule of law & not beholden to the constitution. Why am I completely unsurprised?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  11. #1811

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    I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

  12. #1812

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    ^^I pointed out that travelling overseas to commit terrorism is a crime (thanks to our former Conservative government), and that the Conservatives also wanted to strip citizenship (which they did, something which never fully got tested in the Courts as it was under appeal). I'm not sure why you feel that's worthy of a rant, but good for you.

  13. #1813

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^^I pointed out that travelling overseas to commit terrorism is a crime (thanks to our former Conservative government), and that the Conservatives also wanted to strip citizenship (which they did, something which never fully got tested in the Courts as it was under appeal). I'm not sure why you feel that's worthy of a rant, but good for you.
    It's now a rant to post a single sentence to illustrate you're a pro-authoritarian, anti-human-rights deplorable?

    I guess since calling a spade a spade is now a "personal attack", that'd qualify as a "rant ", but what kind of sensitive safe-space-seeking snowflake would overreact so plainly?
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  14. #1814

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    ^because nowhere in my post did I advocate anything (like you falsely claimed in your rant about unrelated posts from selective memory), I just confirmed that going to fight for ISIS is a crime (provided that's a terrorist activity), and that the conservatives also wanted to strip citizenship.

  15. #1815

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^because nowhere in my post did I advocate anything (like you falsely claimed in your rant about unrelated posts), I just confirmed that going to fight for ISIS is a crime (provided that's a terrorist activity), and that the conservatives also wanted to strip citizenship.
    So what's your stance on the stripping citizenship issue then?

    (I could cross-reference the Khadr thread for you to remind you of just how backwards you are, but that's more effort than I'm willing to expend on a regressive like yourself.)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  16. #1816

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    ^I was answering Howies question, if you want to revive that thread because you think it makes you morally superior to people who have a different view than you (and many legal scholars do, the matter was never settled in the courts and won't be unless the Conservatives regain power and reinstate that policy), go ahead.
    Last edited by moahunter; 29-11-2017 at 11:43 AM.

  17. #1817

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I was answering Howies question, if you want to revive that thread because you think it makes you morally superior to people who have a different view than you (and many legal scholars do, the matter was never settled in the courts and won't be unless the Conservatives regain power and reinstate that policy), go ahead.
    Y'know something? I don't feel the slightest twinge of guilt or doubt knowing I occupy the moral high ground vs someone who sees the Charter as an inconvenient impediment to revenge-masquerading-as-justice.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  18. #1818

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    Also, nice dodge & non-answer about whether you support the stripping of citizenship without due process.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  19. #1819

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    ^you mean, like Sweden's conservatives are proposing, to bring their laws into line with other Scandinavian countries and Germany:

    https://www.thelocal.se/20170907/swe...or-citizenship

    In their fifth point, the authors said that the ability to strip an individual of their Swedish citizenship should be imposed if the person commits serious crimes, like terror crimes.
    One day the Conservatives may get back into power, and we may find out where the Courts land on whether citizenship can be removed, not only for lying on an immigration document (which is Canadian law that hasn't been overridden by any charter), but also for deceiving Canada by gaining citizenship not to be a Canadian, but rather, to facilitate (thanks to the stronger passport) being able to commit terror somewhere in the world.
    Last edited by moahunter; 29-11-2017 at 12:28 PM.

  20. #1820

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^you mean, like Sweden's conservatives are proposing, to bring their laws into line with other Scandinavian countries and Germany:

    https://www.thelocal.se/20170907/swe...or-citizenship

    In their fifth point, the authors said that the ability to strip an individual of their Swedish citizenship should be imposed if the person commits serious crimes, like terror crimes.
    One day the Conservatives may get back into power, and we may find out where the Courts land on whether citizenship can be removed, not only for lying on an immigration document (which is Canadian law that hasn't been overridden by any charter), but also for deceiving Canada by gaining citizenship not to be a Canadian, but rather, to facilitate (thanks to the stronger passport) being able to commit terror somewhere in the world.
    Nice deflection & non-answer. Pathetic. At least MrOilers is up front & honest about his biases.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  21. #1821

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    ^its just a different view Noodle. You think its fine for someone to become a Canadian citizenship so they can gain a strong passport so they can go and rape and murder people in another country, and that we should respect their citizenship when that happens, because you interpret the charter that way. I don't, and the Conservative party doesn't, and many "enlightened socialist" countries don't. One day, the Supreme Court might have to rule on what the charter really means in those situations.
    Last edited by moahunter; 29-11-2017 at 12:42 PM.

  22. #1822
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    I'm not advocating isis in any way here. Any jihadist terrorist imo is scum of the earth.

    Has Canada evoked a travel ban on countries where these individuals play out their isis fantasy's?

    If our intel knows where these people are and Canada isn't their country of origin, why don't we just deport them to their country of origin?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  23. #1823

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^its just a different view Noodle. You think its fine for someone to become a Canadian citizenship so they can gain a strong passport so they can go and rape and murder people in another country, and that we should respect their citizenship when that happens, because you interpret the charter that way. I don't, and the Conservative party doesn't, and many "enlightened socialist" countries don't. One day, the Supreme Court might have to rule on what the charter really means in those situations.
    Nice deflection & non-answer. Pathetic. Again.

    I asked about your opinion on the issue & nothing more. Not the Supreme Court, not foreign governments & certainly not for a personality assessment from someone who comes across quite clearly as a sociopath or having sociopathic tendencies.
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  24. #1824

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    Folks, we have a lot of native born people living among us that have already committed serious crimes, possibly repeatedly, crimes where we actually have the victims (alive or dead) so why are we not locking up our own murders and beaters and rapists, etc. ???? I’m sure the police have the names of suspects. Why aren’t they locked up!


    Can anyone provide a common sense answer to my facetious and nonsensical comment above?

    BTW, removing thought from the argument to battle each other based on nothing but platitudes and other nonsense seems to be going nowhere. Maybe at a minimum everyone should just listen to the CBC interview first. There’s nothing new or surprising or astounding there but it might just inspire a bit of deeper thought about the actual real world here.
    Last edited by KC; 29-11-2017 at 01:53 PM.

  25. #1825
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Folks, we have a lot of native born people living among us that have already committed serious crimes, possibly repeatedly, crimes where we actually have the victims (alive or dead) so why are we not locking up our own murders and beaters and rapists, etc. ???? I’m sure the police have the names of suspects. Why aren’t they locked up!


    Can anyone provide a common sense answer to my facetious and nonsensical comment above?

    BTW, removing thought from the argument to battle each other based on nothing but platitudes and other nonsense seems to be going nowhere. Maybe at a minimum everyone should just listen to the CBC interview first. There’s nothing new or surprising or astounding there but it might just inspire a bit of deeper thought about the actual real world here.
    We're talking mainly about isis Canadian's not domestic violence.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  26. #1826

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I don't feel the slightest twinge of guilt or doubt knowing I occupy the moral high ground
    That's your problem - you only THINK you do.

  27. #1827

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    That's your problem - you only THINK you do.
    Sadly, I don't take lessons or insights on morality from people who espouse fascist, racist, regressive or illiberal viewpoints, especially not to the degree you do. I have no tolerance for the intolerant.

    (Please note that I am describing your views & not you. Hopefully you'll recognize this & realize it's not a "personal" attack. Also, you responded to me so this isn't stalking either. Hope that makes it clear & you won't have to send me another PM to ask me to give you a safe space to spread your vitriol.)
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  28. #1828
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    ^ Noodle, pardon me for chiming in here and nothing against MrOilers, but that was well said.

    Impressive, even.

    Wish I could write like that.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  29. #1829

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    I truly appreciate that. Zero sarcasm or snark or malice, straight up gratitude.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  30. #1830

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Noodle, pardon me for chiming in here and nothing against MrOilers, but that was well said.

    Impressive, even.

    Wish I could write like that.
    Its pretty easy, you just say such and such is a "fascist, racist, etc.", and therefore, as I am none of those things, I am always right, and they are always wrong. Its pretty hard to debate against the genius of such brilliance, its the equivalent of someone who believes in God saying, but God/Noodle is all powerful so it must be true.

  31. #1831

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    moahunter - you may want to review some of the posts MrOilers makes before attempting to defend him.

  32. #1832

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    ^you are missing the point a little, rather than just denouncing someone as "bad" and accordingly, all their posts as "bad", a more mature poster than Noodle would put aside personal feelings and consider the merits of the information in each post. Arguing with noodle is like arguing with a 4 year old with a thesaurus stuck up their ***, his logic basically always comes down to "I am right", "you are evil".

  33. #1833

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    That's your problem - you only THINK you do.
    Sadly, I don't take lessons or insights on morality from people who espouse fascist, racist, regressive or illiberal viewpoints, especially not to the degree you do.
    You labeling me as fascist, racist, etc. is simply your opinion. You are free to express it, but don't expect that insulting people like that is going to win you any arguments.

  34. #1834

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    his logic basically always comes down to "I am right", "you are evil".

    This is the logic shared by the "progressive" left. If they knew how harsh and poisonous this line of thinking makes their "political brand" appear, they would soften it very quickly.

  35. #1835
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^you are missing the point a little, rather than just denouncing someone as "bad" and accordingly, all their posts as "bad", a more mature poster than Noodle would put aside personal feelings and consider the merits of the information in each post. Arguing with noodle is like arguing with a 4 year old with a thesaurus stuck up their ***, his logic basically always comes down to "I am right", "you are evil".
    sort of like moahunter vs developers or your version of calgary vs edmonton?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  36. #1836

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    Calls people out for calling him names, then posts "progressive" left... Wow.

  37. #1837

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^you are missing the point a little, rather than just denouncing someone as "bad" and accordingly, all their posts as "bad", a more mature poster than Noodle would put aside personal feelings and consider the merits of the information in each post. Arguing with noodle is like arguing with a 4 year old with a thesaurus stuck up their ***, his logic basically always comes down to "I am right", "you are evil".
    sort of like moahunter vs developers or your version of calgary vs edmonton?
    Lol, perhaps, I'm far from perfect.

  38. #1838

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Calls people out for calling him names, then posts "progressive" left... Wow.
    is the "progressive" left (which they do call themselves) not "progressive" anymore? Sorry I don't get the memos.

  39. #1839

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    You labeling me as fascist, racist, etc. is simply your opinion. You are free to express it, but don't expect that insulting people like that is going to win you any arguments.
    I did not insult you, I insulted your views. Or are you nothing but a pile of hateful rhetoric given form & as such you are your views? heart, mind, & soul?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  40. #1840

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post

    This is the logic shared by the "progressive" left. If they knew how harsh and poisonous this line of thinking makes their "political brand" appear, they would soften it very quickly.
    Hahahahahahahaha. You think in such linear, 2-dimensional terms.

    What is my "political brand", pray tell?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  41. #1841

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Calls people out for calling him names, then posts "progressive" left... Wow.
    Yep. He has no worse thing to call someone than "progressive" or "left", they're the most pejorative terms he can come up with. Low energy! SAD!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  42. #1842

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post

    What is my "political brand", pray tell?

  43. #1843
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    LOL Moa!!!!

  44. #1844

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    I'm not the one crying about everything the government is doing.

    Most of my complaints are actually directed towards the quasi-conservative, pseudo-libertarian rhetoric peddlers on the forum not what's actually going on in City Hall, the Legislature or Parliament. Like I've reiterated over & over again, intolerance is not tolerable to me & I will continue to point out any time someone attempts to spread or incite intolerance, especially when they're morally bankrupt & doing it for their own gain.

    But hey, you & the rest of the Cognitive Dissonance Posse can think I'm a crybaby all you want. Just another mark in the "wrong" column, if I can find any space to actually mark it in.
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  45. #1845
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    If they are a Canadian citizen and acted against Canada (either in or out of Canada) then they have committed treason, here is an excerpt of Section 46 of the Criminal Code
    Treason
    (2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,
    (a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;
    (b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;
    (c) conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);
    (d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or
    (e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) and manifests that intention by an overt act.

    Canadian citizen
    (3) Notwithstanding subsection (1) or (2), a Canadian citizen or a person who owes allegiance to Her Majesty in right of Canada,
    (a) commits high treason if, while in or out of Canada, he does anything mentioned in subsection (1); or
    (b) commits treason if, while in or out of Canada, he does anything mentioned in subsection (2)
    http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...ge-7.html#h-13

  46. #1846

    Default Sale of shares

    Unbelievable, after not following the normal practice of placing his investments in a blind trust, it appears, that, over ten million of shares were sold, saving half a million dollars, just before a government announcement that correlated with a stock price reduction of five percent:

    https://www.facebook.com/PierrePoili...5179746742379/

    They might say all the right Liberal PC stuff to impress the simple folk like Noodle, but it’s very clear the Ottawa elites are in charge, just for themselves, again ...
    Last edited by moahunter; 29-11-2017 at 11:41 PM.

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    When the f#ck are you guys just gonna agree that left or right they're all the same criminal asswipes?

    We argue over political semantics while they game the system (and take home a sweet pension in zero time).

    What a bunch of suckers we are.

    But nevermind, keep the redneck slugfest on. Such a perfect distraction.
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

  48. #1848

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I'm not the one crying about everything the government is doing.

    Most of my complaints are actually directed towards the quasi-conservative, pseudo-libertarian rhetoric peddlers on the forum not what's actually going on in City Hall, the Legislature or Parliament. Like I've reiterated over & over again, intolerance is not tolerable to me & I will continue to point out any time someone attempts to spread or incite intolerance, especially when they're morally bankrupt & doing it for their own gain.

    But hey, you & the rest of the Cognitive Dissonance Posse can think I'm a crybaby all you want. Just another mark in the "wrong" column, if I can find any space to actually mark it in.
    A fair position until you added the issue of someone being “morally bankrupt”. That introduces all kinds complexity and potential subjectivity due to various religious, political and ideological beliefs that pretend to impose their “morality” on others for “everyone’s” best interests.

  49. #1849

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    When the f#ck are you guys just gonna agree that left or right they're all the same criminal asswipes?
    I don't remember anyone ever suggesting that Flahtery was doing anything unethical. Peter McKay shouldn't have used the helicopter for the fishing trip, but he paid for that, he never went anywhere with the Conservatives after that - Harper ran a tight ship on stuff like this, unlike Trudeau who doesn't seem to understand just how damaging this is. Paul Martin was I think very ethical (probably the best finance minister Canada has had, a wealthy guy just like Morneau, but a Liberal who understood you create wealth by cutting taxes not raising them - and it worked), aside from perhaps, Adscam (but he didn't seem to be the key player in that). In fairness, Mulroney's has the whole airbus bribery thing over his head. Sure, the Conservatives and Liberals have bad senators, but anyone who is a senator is a patronage appointment, we shouldn't expect more from a corrupt and pointless institution, but its different, I think, with elected officials in the commons.

    What's remarkable is how quickly these Liberal cabinet ministers are screwing up, but its not that surprising, because most of them are from very privileged backgrounds. We have had:

    - multiple PM Nanny's on government dime
    - extravagant proposal to re-do government house
    - free trip to island for PM from a guy who receives huge government grants to his charity
    - PM who meets with Chinese Billionaires and accepts large donations to his charitable foundation from them
    - PM breaking rules by taking a private flight in helicopter
    - finance minister who didn't use a blind trust
    - finance minister who may have personally gained from government policies.

    If you want to appear elite and out of touch, those types of actions will speak louder than endlessly repeating that your are focused on the middle class Canadians.
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-11-2017 at 09:13 AM.

  50. #1850

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    When the f#ck are you guys just gonna agree that left or right they're all the same criminal asswipes?
    I don't remember anyone ever suggesting that Flahtery was doing anything unethical. Peter McKay shouldn't have used the helicopter for the fishing trip, but he paid for that, he never went anywhere with the Conservatives after that - Harper ran a tight ship on stuff like this, unlike Trudeau who doesn't seem to understand just how damaging this is. Paul Martin was I think very ethical (probably the best finance minister Canada has had, a wealthy guy just like Morneau, but a Liberal who understood you create wealth by cutting taxes not raising them - and it worked), aside from perhaps, Adscam (but he didn't seem to be the key player in that). In fairness, Mulroney's has the whole airbus bribery thing over his head. Sure, the Conservatives and Liberals have bad senators, but anyone who is a senator is a patronage appointment, we shouldn't expect more from a corrupt and pointless institution, but its different, I think, with elected officials in the commons.

    What's remarkable is how quickly these Liberal cabinet ministers are screwing up, but its not that surprising, because most of them are from very privileged backgrounds. We have had:

    - multiple PM Nanny's on government dime
    - extravagant proposal to re-do government house
    - free trip to island for PM from a guy who receives huge government grants to his charity
    - PM who meets with Chinese Billionaires and accepts large donations to his charitable foundation from them
    - PM breaking rules by taking a private flight in helicopter
    - finance minister who didn't use a blind trust
    - finance minister who may have personally gained from government policies.

    If you want to appear elite and out of touch, those types of actions will speak louder than endlessly repeating that your are focused on the middle class Canadians.
    The Liberals right-wing bias goes back to Argus and Power Corp and long before that.

    That book published years ago, The Canadian Establishment was an interesting read. So the idea that the Liberals wouldn’t pander to the rich is a farce. The whole left-right notion is also a very much a farce. Each party had been caught up in embarrassing issues of corruption over the decades.

  51. #1851

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    When the f#ck are you guys just gonna agree that left or right they're all the same criminal asswipes?

    We argue over political semantics while they game the system (and take home a sweet pension in zero time).

    What a bunch of suckers we are.

    But nevermind, keep the redneck slugfest on. Such a perfect distraction.
    Agreed

    Another example of the gang of criminals called Parliament Hill and Washington.

    WARNING! Source is a lefty biased fake media site called CBC, (Communist Blabber Conspiracy).

    PARADISE PAPERSNew Mulroney Institute is bankrolled by billionaires steeped in scandal
    Ex-PM raised part of funds for N.S. university site from businessmen tied to bribery schemes, tax havens
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brian-...pers-1.4425014

    A new $60-million university institute in Nova Scotia celebrating former prime minister Brian Mulroney — and being built with money he personally solicited — got a good chunk of that financing from donors embroiled in international controversy, a joint investigation by the Toronto Star, CBC/Radio-Canada and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists has found.


    From a Jordanian-born metals magnate implicated in aluminum-industry kickbacks, to a Syrian-British entrepreneur who helped broker a massive U.K. arms deal mired in corruption allegations, to one of U.S. President Donald Trump's cabinet picks with ties to Russia, a number of the power players bankrolling the Mulroney Institute of Government at St. Francis Xavier University have checkered resumés.


    A senior St. FX professor called the revelations "deeply troubling."
    Mulroney, Trump and Russia connections...

    The 1% power brokers across the political spectrum from Left to Right, Fascist to Communist to Dictators to Democratic to Liberal to Republican to Capitalist are corrupt up to their ears.



    Lord Acton 1887
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  52. #1852
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    If Justin was his dad he'd have already asked Mourneau to resign for personal reasons or to spend time with his family.
    But sidestepping the issue, by saying the economy is improving, instead of addressing the problem, as he did in today's question period, isn't going to win Justin any votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    If Justin was his dad he'd have already asked Mourneau to resign for personal reasons or to spend time with his family.
    But sidestepping the issue, by saying the economy is improving, instead of addressing the problem, as he did in today's question period, isn't going to win Justin any votes.
    He isn't half as smart as his father. Morneau needs to go, people have lost any faith they had in him..

  54. #1854

    Default

    I've been impressed by Pierre Poilievre, Scheer made an awesome pick in him, for his right hand person. He has made Mourneau look pathetic.

    Now it turns out Morneau's father also sold shares, just at the right time:

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3889576/b...tal-gains-tax/

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    I've been impressed by Pierre Poilievre, Scheer made an awesome pick in him, for his right hand person. He has made Mourneau look pathetic.

    Now it turns out Morneau's father also sold shares, just at the right time:

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3889576/b...tal-gains-tax/

    I agree. Boy, it looks even worse for Bill.
    LOL..the more JT allows Morneau to stay, the worse this is going to get!

  56. #1856

    Default

    Jobs, jobs, jobs.

    For those that play this game:
    The Trudeau effect?
    Are Trudeau policies outperforming Trump policies?

    Seems Trudeau’s policies are good for the private sector. Moreover, this when the Free Trade deal may fail. That’s huge uncertainty for the private sector. Just think back to the blame that was piled on Notley and Stelmach for even thinking Toyslty review. Free Trade “uncertainty” must be as bad or worse, with business now men running around like their heads were cut off, mayhem in the boardrooms, big businessmen jumping from roofs, living together with left-wingers, right?

    “The employment increase in November was largely among private sector employees, as both public sector employment and the number of self-employed were little changed.”


    The Daily — Labour Force Survey, November 2017
    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...-eng.htm?HPA=1
    Last edited by KC; 01-12-2017 at 07:49 AM.

  57. #1857

    Default

    Turdeau's view on people not wanting to accept returning ISIS fighters is that they are promoting Islamophobia. Um no, I wouldn't want ANY terrorists to return to Canada. I don't care if they're Catholic, Buddhist or Wiccan... They joined a terrorist group, end of story, and I don't want them in my neighborhood!

    No matter what he says, it doesn't matter and he doesn't care. He's a PR machine, and that's his #1 priority. Even after the numbers came out that taxes for the middle-class were RAISED, he STILL states that they lowered them, even this week! Lies lies lies.

    On top of that, first Sajjan's lies about his role in Afghan, which is MAJOR considering his position. And NOW this whole scam with Morneau and his father... I mean come on. Turdeau won't even say a bad thing about it or look into it! He just ignore it completely. Not surprised though since he lives in a world where he's untouchable and never suffers any consequences... Even after admitting smoking pot as an MP, nothing happened. His brother's charges made to "go away" thanks to his dad... I'm fairly certain at this point that he could pull out a gun during question period, shoot Scheer in the head in front of everyone and on TV, and then deny it and shrug it off. And again, nothing will happen. They could likely literally get away with murder...The country is going down the drain. Raised taxes and killed benefits are supposed to benefit the economy, but instead it's getting worse.

    Oh well, the Conservatives held power for a long time, and many people made the mistake of going for the libtards. Pretty sure that mistake won't happen again. Hopefully he hasn't secured too many of the votes for the rich, the lower class and potheads to have a repeat of this disaster. By then, he'll probably want to spend another $40 Million to update the décor in the PM's residence.

  58. #1858

    Default US Senate passes tax reform

    Final step will be to reconcile with the congress version. Wow. So, if I'm thinking of deploying capital, do I choose Canada where taxes keep going up, there is a ton of carbon tax bureaucracy and nothing infrastructure wise can get built (because of US environmental groups). Or the US, where taxes are now much lower, red tape regulations are being wiped out, and the infrastructure is being built?

    We are going in the wrong direction and jobs / wealth is heading south rapidly.

  59. #1859
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Final step will be to reconcile with the congress version. Wow. So, if I'm thinking of deploying capital, do I choose Canada where taxes keep going up, there is a ton of carbon tax bureaucracy and nothing infrastructure wise can get built (because of US environmental groups). Or the US, where taxes are now much lower, red tape regulations are being wiped out, and the infrastructure is being built?

    We are going in the wrong direction and jobs / wealth is heading south rapidly.
    if that narrow band is your only investment criteria, you should be moving to panama or columbia. or maybe myanmar or senegal...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  60. #1860
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    I thought isis fighters (terrorists) wore masks, even in the field. How then can we identify them as returning previously isis fighters?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Isis fighters in the UK, US, France Australia are not allowed back , so why are we coddling those who aim to hurt us. JT is a coward and an embarrassment

  62. #1862
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    ^ How do they know they are returning isis fighters? Isis fighters wore face masks, apparently.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  63. #1863

    Default

    Canada already has a very competitive corporate tax rate. 15% nationally. Anyone who's worried that all of a sudden we're not competitive is drinking koolaid.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-corporate-tax-rate-oecd-countries-2017-4
    Last edited by River Valley Green; 02-12-2017 at 07:19 PM.

  64. #1864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Final step will be to reconcile with the congress version. Wow. So, if I'm thinking of deploying capital, do I choose Canada where taxes keep going up, there is a ton of carbon tax bureaucracy and nothing infrastructure wise can get built (because of US environmental groups). Or the US, where taxes are now much lower, red tape regulations are being wiped out, and the infrastructure is being built?

    We are going in the wrong direction and jobs / wealth is heading south rapidly.
    I haven't been paying close attention to the US tax plans, there are a lot of moving parts here and some are still moving, so I am not sure what the final outcome will be. The US corporate statutory rate is quite high, but I understand few really pay it after deductions anyways, so I am not sure if it really will make that much difference. I believe they intend to eliminate some deductions and credits but have a lower corporate rate, so it might largely offset and most people will pay the same amount of tax in the end. I understand there has been some discussion to eliminate deductions for state taxes and limit mortgage interest deductibility. In broad terms, I get the sense the upper middle class wage earners may lose and corporations may win. I am not sure that is really so much different than what has happened in Canada recently - corporate rates have stayed the same or went down slightly and rates have gone up for upper middle class wage earners.

    I suppose if you have a large corporation it might make a bit more sense now to consider US operations/expansion.

  65. #1865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Canada already has a very competitive corporate tax rate. 15% nationally. Anyone who's worried that all of a sudden we're not competitive is drinking koolaid.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-corporate-tax-rate-oecd-countries-2017-4
    That's not comparing Apples with Apples. The lowest tax you can pay in Canada is 25, most provinces about 27% (Alberta and BC for example). A business in Washington will now pay 20%. So if you set up in Seattle instead of Vancouver you immediately get a 7% better return on investment. Additionally, the US has much better write offs for capital investment.
    Last edited by moahunter; 03-12-2017 at 08:29 AM.

  66. #1866
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Canada already has a very competitive corporate tax rate. 15% nationally. Anyone who's worried that all of a sudden we're not competitive is drinking koolaid.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-corporate-tax-rate-oecd-countries-2017-4
    That's not comparing Apples with Apples. The lowest tax you can pay in Canada is 25, most provinces about 27% (Alberta and BC for example). A business in Washington will now pay 20%. So if you set up in Seattle instead of Vancouver you immediately get a 7% better return on investment. Additionally, the US has much better write offs for capital investment.
    no, it’s you who is not comparing apples to apples in your selection of criteria. american municipalities as well as their states have the ability to assess sales taxes and seattle’s combined rate of almost 10% is among the highest anywhere. seattle also has about the highest property taxes anywhere in the united states. they might not amount to much for a corporation directly but they will be a large part of what they have to pay their employees to cover just as they will have to cover higher housing and education costs for them. then you adjust for the cost and availability of health insurance and health care and a myriad of other factors and the playing field is still a lot closer to level than you seem prepared to acknowledge.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4431830

    Tsk tsk..lots of liars in Ottawa...

  68. #1868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Canada already has a very competitive corporate tax rate. 15% nationally. Anyone who's worried that all of a sudden we're not competitive is drinking koolaid.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-corporate-tax-rate-oecd-countries-2017-4
    That's not comparing Apples with Apples. The lowest tax you can pay in Canada is 25, most provinces about 27% (Alberta and BC for example). A business in Washington will now pay 20%. So if you set up in Seattle instead of Vancouver you immediately get a 7% better return on investment. Additionally, the US has much better write offs for capital investment.
    The current small business corporate tax rate in Alberta is 12.5%. The NDP reduced the provincial rate for small businesses corps in Alberta from 3% to 2% and the Federal Liberal have committed to reduce the small business corp. rate to 9% from 10.5. These rates are for the first $500,000 of active business income, but larger private corps. can still get some benefit from this as long as they are not too large.

    I don't recall all the comparable provincial levels across Canada. I think Alberta is in the lower to mid range, but I believe most other provinces are under 15%.

  69. #1869
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    http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4431497

    LOL @JT, he really thought China was going to listen to his blah blah blah...


    Early on in the day it appeared there were issues. Chinese and Canadian officials could be heard arguing about the Canadian media's access to the photo op of the two leaders. It continued, off an on, for more than an hour.☺

  70. #1870

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    ... JT is a coward and an embarrassment
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    LOL @JT, he really thought China was going to listen to his blah blah blah...
    While coincidentally on c2e, the hypocrisy meter explodes.

  71. #1871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4431497

    LOL @JT, he really thought China was going to listen to his blah blah blah...


    Early on in the day it appeared there were issues. Chinese and Canadian officials could be heard arguing about the Canadian media's access to the photo op of the two leaders. It continued, off an on, for more than an hour.☺
    I'm not entirely sure what to make of the Chinese sometimes. They seem to really want to engage with the world more in the last few years, but it is still challenging to get them to change on some things I remember Harper went around for a couple of years or so at the beginning of his term publicly criticizing them a lot. They did not take that well, it didn't seem to achieve anything and he eventually stopped doing that. However, any deal with them should be good for Canada, so we shouldn't cave to Chinese pressure either.

  72. #1872
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4431497

    LOL @JT, he really thought China was going to listen to his blah blah blah...


    Early on in the day it appeared there were issues. Chinese and Canadian officials could be heard arguing about the Canadian media's access to the photo op of the two leaders. It continued, off an on, for more than an hour.☺
    I'm not entirely sure what to make of the Chinese sometimes. They seem to really want to engage with the world more in the last few years, but it is still challenging to get them to change on some things I remember Harper went around for a couple of years or so at the beginning of his term publicly criticizing them a lot. They did not take that well, it didn't seem to achieve anything and he eventually stopped doing that. However, any deal with them should be good for Canada, so we shouldn't cave to Chinese pressure either.
    PM Harper did or said a lot behind closed doors, as it should be! Don't school the Chinese or anyone else in public!

  73. #1873
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    Did Chinese and Canadian TPP talks just have a brain fart over the weekend?

    What's going on here?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Did Chinese and Canadian TPP talks just have a brain fart over the weekend?

    What's going on here?

    JT needed to get away from all that insider trading talk, i wish I had his airmiles though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ How do they know they are returning isis fighters? Isis fighters wore face masks, apparently.
    Even Justin is talking about re-integrating them into society, so even he admits they are returning.

  76. #1876

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Did Chinese and Canadian TPP talks just have a brain fart over the weekend?

    What's going on here?
    Trudeau's whole term has been one big brain fart and there's more gas building up.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  77. #1877

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Canada already has a very competitive corporate tax rate. 15% nationally. Anyone who's worried that all of a sudden we're not competitive is drinking koolaid.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-corporate-tax-rate-oecd-countries-2017-4
    That's not comparing Apples with Apples. The lowest tax you can pay in Canada is 25, most provinces about 27% (Alberta and BC for example). A business in Washington will now pay 20%. So if you set up in Seattle instead of Vancouver you immediately get a 7% better return on investment. Additionally, the US has much better write offs for capital investment.
    no, it’s you who is not comparing apples to apples in your selection of criteria. american municipalities as well as their states have the ability to assess sales taxes and seattle’s combined rate of almost 10% is among the highest anywhere. seattle also has about the highest property taxes anywhere in the united states. they might not amount to much for a corporation directly but they will be a large part of what they have to pay their employees to cover just as they will have to cover higher housing and education costs for them. then you adjust for the cost and availability of health insurance and health care and a myriad of other factors and the playing field is still a lot closer to level than you seem prepared to acknowledge.

    Here is an interesting article that factors health care costs into the Canada/US comparison.

    http://calgaryherald.com/diane-franc...2-aaeee6f46ad7

  78. #1878
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    Something weird is going on with that whole China trip. I hope he doesn't give too much away, they'll sweep in and take over!

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    He won't get much, they're pizzed off at him.

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    What about all the billions from Canola? He's such a dork, he's not Gandhi!

  81. #1881

    Default Kent Hehr apologizes

    Alberta doesn't have many Liberal ministers, but Kent Hehr seems to be making as big a mess of disabilities as he did of veteran affairs - looks like his political career as a minister will come to an end soon:

    Members of a thalidomide survivor group say they felt belittled and are appalled after meeting with Kent Hehr, the federal minister for persons with disabilities, and accuse him of making repugnant statements about their life expectancies.

    The minister flat out denies at least one of their claims and said he has apologized if some of his comments were misinterpreted.

    Fiona Sampson, a thalidomide survivor who attended the Oct. 19 meeting, told reporters on Tuesday that Hehr degraded those in attendance with his remarks.

    "In response to members of the group reading really heartfelt testimonials, Minister Hehr — apropos of nothing — commented, 'Well you don't have it as bad today as adults as you did when you were kids,'" said Sampson, a human rights lawyer and chair of Thalidomide Survivors Task Group.

    "Then he went on to say, 'Well you don't have it so bad. Everyone in Canada has a sob story.'"

    Sampson said one of the most repugnant statements in the 30-minute meeting came after the group explained to Hehr that they have shortened lifespans and have already lost five members since the House of Commons passed a unanimous motion to support survivors back in 2014.

    "He said to us, 'So you probably have about 10 years left then now. That's good news for the Canadian government.' We were shocked and appalled," she said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/thal...ions-1.4433539

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    I heard him in an interview a year ago, he didnt sound very bright( jmho) I sure don't like what he said the thalidomide survivor group
    Last edited by H.L.; 06-12-2017 at 05:27 PM.

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    If those are true statements (and I think they are), not only should he be removed as minister, he should be kicked out of caucus. Disgusting.

  84. #1884

    Default "Shame shame on you!" Hundreds complain to Veterans Affairs about disorganized Vimy Ridge ceremony

    ^This mess falls on Kent Hehr as well:

    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/...ridge-ceremony

    Canadian visitors were stranded, injured and left sweltering in the sun with no water on April 9. They had to urinate on the grass for lack of toilets

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