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Thread: Liberals And Trudeau - Performance Review!

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    Default Liberals And Trudeau - Performance Review!


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    ^basically, we are seeing the collapse of the NDP, and Trudeau holding onto some centrist voters who can swing either way.

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    Yah a totally great job, a deficit of only $29 billion. A lot of talk about doing things, very little things actually done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Yah a totally great job, a deficit of only $29 billion. A lot of talk about doing things, very little things actually done.
    Which is actually quite modest compared to much of the past, including the Harper years.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03...n_9532294.html

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    ^but those years were a global recession (and it was a minority government - Conservatives increased their budget spend to get support of minor parties). Canada isn't in recession right now.

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    Liberals And Trudeau Doing a Great Job!

    but but but............The Emperor has no Clothes.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    On and on the loser CONS go.

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    Bottom line right now is Canadians are satisfied with the government and what it's doing. In a democracy that is the very definition of a great job.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    On and on the loser CONS go.
    Look at that loser Libs in Alberta:



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gren...2016-1.3469716


  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    On and on the loser CONS go.
    ...........as the libs look at the world through their rose colored glasses.

    Sunny Ways, Sunny Ways. WTF
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    On and on the loser CONS go.
    Look at that loser Libs in Alberta:



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gren...2016-1.3469716

    I see that the Liberals have gone up 5% and the CONS dropped2.8% since the Election.

    As it states "Strong growth throughout Canada...."

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    On and on the loser CONS go.
    Look at that loser Libs in Alberta:



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gren...2016-1.3469716

    You should be more careful.

    The Liberals have increased 5% since the Election in Alberta and the CONS have dropped 2.8%. That's what I see.

    As it states, "Strong growth throughout Canada...."

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    The Liberals have gained in Alberta but are still far, far behind here.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    I think most was being sarcastic...
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    Of course they doing great - they haven't had to increase everyone's taxes to pay for their massive spending yet.

    The moment that inflation and taxes catch up to us, most people will want a more fiscally-conservative government again.

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    The voting booth will be the only poll that matters.

    If there was no election and Harper was still in power, there is no proof that they wouldn't have run a big deficit as well or allowed the economy to stagnate. I was a JT skeptic prior to the election but I like the new government and the attitude change that there is in Ottawa that is willing to work with the provinces.

    I was just in Vermont and I was amazed how many Americans knew who our Prime Minister was and liked his policies. It was strange as Americans usually don't know anything about Canadian politics. Canada is getting a lot of US attention in the news especially in the anti-Trump campaign where Americans like JT's style, his foreign policy with regards to Syria and his cabinet appointments of 50% women.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-04-2016 at 04:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The Liberals have gained in Alberta but are still far, far behind here.
    True, but I wouldn't overstate the importance of a region with only 12% of the population.

    I don't really follow "Federal" politics, but that is undeniably impressive poll performance to date, including gaining 5% in recession-struck Alberta.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    PM Justin Trudeau gives reporter quick lesson on quantum computing.



    the Cons then speak their thoughts on quantum computing research and science in general.

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    And for all that knowledge about quantum physics he also said;
    "Budgets balance themselves" ... so by his math, 29 billion=0
    "Deficits are a way of measuring the kind of growth and the kind of success that a government is actually able to create."

    And for the part about government creating jobs, by the numbers the answer is basically they don't. At best they make jobs from tax spending, but the taxes cost jobs in other areas;
    http://www.cato.org/publications/com...t-creates-jobs

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The Liberals have gained in Alberta but are still far, far behind here.
    True, but I wouldn't overstate the importance of a region with only 12% of the population.

    I don't really follow "Federal" politics, but that is undeniably impressive poll performance to date, including gaining 5% in recession-struck Alberta.
    Agreed. Nationally the Liberal's support is quite large. My comment was aimed at the argument over how well the Liberals were doing in Alberta. Just because they've gained here doesn't mean they're doing well here.

    What the overall numbers show is the majority of voters are not Conservative and with the collapse of the NDP the Liberals have taken most of that vote. Even in Alberta most of the Liberal gain is at the expense of the NDP.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    ^Trudeau has proven more politically adept than expected. He was smart to take the Liberal party left, to run on an NDP platform of big spending, big deficits, and a tax increase for the "rich". He just modified it a little, instead of taking from the rich, and giving to the poor, the message was take from the rich and give to the middle class. Harsh reality is the poor don't really matter in Canadian Federal politics anymore, there aren't that many of them relative to our middle class, and they don't vote a lot. NDP's base is shrinking, and their moves into the middle class by Mulcair (fiscally responsible and similar), just weren't believed.

    Its interesting how the worm turns, it wasn't that long ago that Liberal support was devastated under the mess that Ignatief and Dion created. I think the Conservatives don't have to do much at the moment, they can just watch from the sidelines. Sooner or later the scandals will start mounting up, big spending, means big pork, means big abuse. We saw that with our PC's, we saw that with previous Liberal governments, and we will eventually see it with Trudeau - people are willing to forget the stupid election promises that are broken (like not letting F35 compete), but they are less tolerant of personal abuses (like two tax funded nanny's or a fancy house rebuild). The real scandals will roll in soon enough as his ministers and senators start abusing their newly found good life.
    Last edited by moahunter; 20-04-2016 at 10:12 AM.

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    If modernizing the PMs house and having a nanny take care of kids are "real scandals", Canada is truly a utopia by global standards.

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    I have no problem with keeping the PM's house and other government assets in good condition, 24 Sussex Drive had numerous problems and needed attention.

    And where is Stephane Dion these days, in the political backwater or backbencher? Nope, he is the Foreign Minister approving $15 billion arms deals to Saudi Arabia (a known funder of terrorism) not to mention a main creator of our current oil crisis and massive deficit.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle29672290/

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    ^its actually amusing seeing Dion try to reconcile his "Canada is back" and "we are morally superior" now rehetoric with the reality of Liberal policies, which include that business deals like that matter, especially when they involve and important Ontario electorate, and generate lots of tax revenue they need to help offset their spending. If anything the Liberals are a lot less moral on foreign policy issues, just look at all the sucking up to China, we won't see anything from this government re stolen money being invested in Vancouver, and we won't see Trudeau doing what Harper did, meeting the Dali Lama or talking about Chinese government human rights abuses.

  25. #25

    Default "How you do anything is how you do everything"

    Harper let 24 Sussex get run down to prove he was fiscally prudent. To me, not doing maintenance on your home is not a good idea and leaving the next owner foot the bill is shirking your obligations.

    Harper did that with the entire Canadian economy and infrastructure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Trudeau has proven more politically adept than expected. He was smart to take the Liberal party left, to run on an NDP platform of big spending, big deficits, and a tax increase for the "rich". He just modified it a little, instead of taking from the rich, and giving to the poor, the message was take from the rich and give to the middle class. Harsh reality is the poor don't really matter in Canadian Federal politics anymore, there aren't that many of them relative to our middle class, and they don't vote a lot. NDP's base is shrinking, and their moves into the middle class by Mulcair (fiscally responsible and similar), just weren't believed.

    Its interesting how the worm turns, it wasn't that long ago that Liberal support was devastated under the mess that Ignatief and Dion created. I think the Conservatives don't have to do much at the moment, they can just watch from the sidelines. Sooner or later the scandals will start mounting up, big spending, means big pork, means big abuse. We saw that with our PC's, we saw that with previous Liberal governments, and we will eventually see it with Trudeau - people are willing to forget the stupid election promises that are broken (like not letting F35 compete), but they are less tolerant of personal abuses (like two tax funded nanny's or a fancy house rebuild). The real scandals will roll in soon enough as his ministers and senators start abusing their newly found good life.
    That's a strategy for allowing the Liberals to remain in power for the next ten years. That's about how long it takes for the corruption to start to pile up on an long serving Liberal government. Shorter for Conservative government's.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    ^I don't think so, Trudeau selected his team based on demographics / inclusiveness, not based on talent or ethics. The scandals are already starting to rack up, like the private law firm scandal.

    http://www.macleans.ca/politics/otta...orney-general/

    For the moment the honeymoon is still going, people like snowboard instructor celebrities from the political elite, especially when he has made some smart political moves. People are ok with the spending spree, but it can't last forever, and the Conservatives will regain traction then. Now's not the time for them, the current polls don't matter at all - they just need to focus on developing their platform for the next election, and sorting out who will be the next leader.
    Last edited by moahunter; 20-04-2016 at 11:14 AM.

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    I'd say the fundraising things are pretty minor to the Conservatives starting immediately with election fraud in 2006 and Maxime Bernier's leaving classified documents at his girlfriend's house.

    This is one that time will tell on though. The Liberals could still go down hard but I suspect that to gain power again the Conservatives will need a leader who can pull the numbers Mulroney did or they'll need the NDP to recover significantly and split the vote again.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    I predict that Trudeau will be in office longer than Harper. I give him 3 full terms (12 years) at the least.

    The only thing that could stop him is a catastrophic global economic meltdown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    I predict that Trudeau will be in office longer than Harper. I give him 3 full terms (12 years) at the least.
    Jesus, I hope not. A decade is about the maximum anyone should be in power.

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    You want a lame duck in the final years?
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    People (especially managers) can stay in the same job too long. It's good to keep changing up the politicians in charge.

  33. #33

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    ^Harper stayed on one term to long (should have passed it off to a new leader). But it is good to have political party change, not just leadership change, I think its important for democracy as well, even if it means we have to tolerate some anti-Albertan policies for a while.

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    Well, they are doing some things right (i.e. same as the Harper "Cons"):

    But now it’s just an ugly memory. Once again, Ottawa’s apparatchiks are disgruntled. The issue, as always, is their rights and benefits. The Conservatives sought to end the practice of “sick days,” which allowed public employees to build up stockpiles of time they could use if they became ill. Treasury Board president Tony Clement proposed a short-term disability plan in its place. Employees would get six sick days a year, instead of 15. After that they could go on short-term disability. The sick days bank, which now contains about 15 million unused sick days, would close.

    After waging war with the Conservatives, the union expected a new proposal from the Liberals. Initially, it looked like the government would deliver. Treasury Board president Scott Brison denounced the Tory program and pledged to roll it back, despite a $900 million hit to the budget. “What the Conservatives did disrespected the negotiating process. It was irresponsible and unfair,” he declared.

    Then he introduced the “new” Liberal plan, which looked a lot like the Tory plan. Sure there was a change here or there, but the short-term disability proposal remained. “I have to say that our teams were disappointed, I’ll be really honest with you,” PSAC president Robyn Benson complained.“We thought we would get something new from the Liberals, not the same old.”

    The union, which represents 140,000 federal employees, says it will not cave on the sick day issue. But rather than continue bickering, it has offered the Liberals another chance to back up their sweet talk. The union’s latest contract proposal includes a 9% pay hike — 3% a year for three years. Benson made clear a second disappointment won’t go over well.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...cial-treatment

    I have never had the ability to carry forward sick days. I can't even bank vacation days (lost the right to that, back in 1997, never seen it since). There is an excellent short term disability, and long term disability system in Canada (I once had to go on long term for three months to finish treatment for an illness). Public service really is bizarre world sometimes.
    Last edited by moahunter; 27-04-2016 at 01:13 PM.

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    ^Meet the new boss, same as the old boss (with better hair).
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    I predict that Trudeau will be in office longer than Harper. I give him 3 full terms (12 years) at the least.
    Jesus, I hope not. A decade is about the maximum anyone should be in power.
    I don't think he will . The media love him, but I see many people not happy with his spending outside of Alberta( these little holiday retreats) where he lies and says its to meet Albertan's. The only Albertan's he met were the ones that worked at the retreat and a quick visit with Notely that did no good at all. I wonder how much he paid the two gurus that went along, one was an adviser to Blair..

    He sure loves to talk, and be on on camera, but it seems that's all he does. Is he ever in Ottawa???.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    He sure loves to talk, and be on on camera, but it seems that's all he does. Is he ever in Ottawa???.
    No, continuing a tradition from previous Liberal governments of lavish use of government jets / retreat's for cabinet ministers all over the country. They should recruit Peter McKay to cross the floor (make him a senator maybe) to take them fishing.

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    I see the sore CON losers once again talking to themselves and trying to hijack the thread.

    Face it, you lost!

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    If it wasn't for them this thread would still be at one sad post.

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    Actually YEG Man you probably lost, check your wallet, there is probably less money in it. I didn't take it, so who did? The government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Actually YEG Man you probably lost, check your wallet, there is probably less money in it. I didn't take it, so who did? The government.
    Money well spent to rid Canada of the CONS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post

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    Gemini is resorting to slamming Trudeau with cat pictures. Must have forgotten how to debate issues.

    I'll hit the Goodwin's Law button now



    Nice mention of Edmonton Center going to the NDP. LOL
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-04-2016 at 04:48 PM.
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    ^Meow.........................................
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    Isn't that Thomas Meowcair though?

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    ^Ha Ha, good question, which one is Meowcair, the cat or the guy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    If it wasn't for them this thread would still be at one sad post.
    LOL..yup!

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The Liberals have gained in Alberta but are still far, far behind here.
    True, but I wouldn't overstate the importance of a region with only 12% of the population.

    I don't really follow "Federal" politics, but that is undeniably impressive poll performance to date, including gaining 5% in recession-struck Alberta.
    Agreed. Nationally the Liberal's support is quite large. My comment was aimed at the argument over how well the Liberals were doing in Alberta. Just because they've gained here doesn't mean they're doing well here.

    What the overall numbers show is the majority of voters are not Conservative and with the collapse of the NDP the Liberals have taken most of that vote. Even in Alberta most of the Liberal gain is at the expense of the NDP.
    If one were a Conservative Partygoer, I don't think I'd want to underestimate the significance of 4 seats in ALBERTA, and 2 Liberal seats in Calgary itself. (aka "Political division by zero.") Then this 5% gain is actually since that election, the time that every government typically loses support.

    Weirdly it even seems consistent with the Nenshi effect.

    Even my party (Undecided Party of Canada) has been suffering JT's punches.

    But dismiss whatever you want...
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    I like a PM with personality, a giant leap Harper to Justin. Like comparing my old dirty black socks to a bouquet of roses really. As for the line on the cat picture, most ladies would love to, and maybe even a few guys. He's doing a good job though in my opinion and I'm rooting for the guy. He's like Canadian royalty in a way too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I like a PM with personality, a giant leap Harper to Justin. Like comparing my old dirty black socks to a bouquet of roses really. As for the line on the cat picture, most ladies would love to, and maybe even a few guys. He's doing a good job though in my opinion and I'm rooting for the guy. He's like Canadian royalty in a way too.
    I wonder what you will say in two years, when energy east is still a discussion..

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post

    I wonder what you will say in two years, when energy east is still a discussion..

    As opposed to the ten years during which the CONS failed to get a shovel in the ground.

    Clement did divert enough money and energy to build some gazebos and gravel up some parking lots east of Alberta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I like a PM with personality, a giant leap Harper to Justin. Like comparing my old dirty black socks to a bouquet of roses really. As for the line on the cat picture, most ladies would love to, and maybe even a few guys. He's doing a good job though in my opinion and I'm rooting for the guy. He's like Canadian royalty in a way too.
    Roses have thorns. Yeah I guess there are a few Kardashian type fans (male and female) that would think Trudeau was quite the Romeo. As for doing a good job. Well, I can't figure out if he's working hard or hardly working. As for Canadian royalty, your joking of course.
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  56. #56

    Default Trudeau takes in-laws to meet Obama

    Can you imagine the flak Harper would have got, if he had started inviting extended family to come along and meet the US president?, on taxpayer dime? Seems Trudeau can do no wrong, even when behaving the same as Redford. I wonder how long before a few penthouses are built for him?:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...a-invited-them

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    Given the best your CON could do was shake hands with his son....

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Can you imagine the flak Harper would have got, if he had started inviting extended family to come along and meet the US president?, on taxpayer dime? Seems Trudeau can do no wrong, even when behaving the same as Redford. I wonder how long before a few penthouses are built for him?:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...a-invited-them
    Technically Trudeau didn't invite them, Obama explicitly asked for them to come to the state dinner. Interestingly the Liberal Party officials were also invited by Obama and paid their own way.

    Not sure if the family members paid for their own trips however a total cost of $25000 for 44 people to travel round trip to Washington is exceedingly low. There are politicians that have racked that up on a single trip by themselves.

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  59. #59

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    ^I don't get to bring family on my work trips on company dime. Do you? This is photo op politics at its worst, the Liberal party should be paying for it if they think its great value:

    “We know that there are important issues to discuss, like perhaps the energy sector, but what we cannot figure out is what expertise the prime minister’s in-laws have and why he could not find room for the natural resources minister,” Opposition House Leader Andrew Scheer said in the House of Commons Monday.

    Conservative MP Blaine Calkins of Alberta added that it was “too bad there was nobody there to lobby for Keystone XL.” The Liberal government has said little about the controversial pipeline, which was to carry bitumen from Alberta to the Gulf of Mexico, since Obama rejected it last year.
    http://www.canada.com/news/national/...607/story.html

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    I'm glad moahunter brought up travel expenses. It is a great opportunity to remember the party with the most egregious history of travel expense abuse: the conservatives.

    http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015...osts-taxpayers

    Conservative MPs rack up highest travel costs for taxpayers

    For instance, Conservative MP Maxime Bernier, Minister of State for Small Business and Tourism, billed taxpayers $7,367 for a plane trip to Calgary and Edmonton in February 2015.
    ...

    Defense Minister Jason Kenney once billed $6,000 to fly his mother from Calgary to Ottawa...

    Conservative MP Nina Grewal was recently mocked online for spending an average of $5,000 to fly her family dependents between Ottawa and her home riding of Fleetwood-Port Kells in B.C....

    In 2013-2014, eight of the top 10 highest-spending MPs on designated travellers were Conservatives— including three cabinet ministers (Jason Kenney, Alice Wong, James Moore) and the prime minister himself.

    According to Parliament’s Internal Board of Economy records, these elected officials on average spent between $3,800 and $6,200 per person every time their spouse or a member of their extended family traveled to meet them. The majority of these trips were round trip journeys from the MP's constituency to Ottawa....

    The Parliamentary expenditures report by member for 2013-14 shows that Tory member John Duncan flew his wife 26 times to Vancouver Island and on other trips, leaving taxpayer's footing a bill of $60,194. His own travel tab came to $66,570.

    Parliament's expenditures report also reveals that Conservative MP Andrew Scheer spent $42,226 on family dependent travellers last fiscal year, higher than his own bill of $35,647 and well above his designated traveller tab of $11,004.
    Harper himself was pretty bad as well. Check out this one:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/harp...-tab-1.1204212

    Harper's baseball trip hit taxpayers with $45,000 tab

    Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Labour Day-weekend trip to Manhattan last fall, which included coveted tickets to a New York Yankees game and a Broadway show, cost Canadian taxpayers at least $45,000, documents reveal.

    Documents obtained under Access to Information reveal only some of the trip's cost. They include $34,633 for the use of the Challenger Jet and another $11,026 for the expenses of four staffers who joined the prime minister during the private family trip.
    Yikes... and that isn't even state trips like this one we are talking about. Wonder how much old steve-o spent on those?

    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...st_239000.html

    Stephen Harper's Middle East trip cost $239,000

    Harper spent four days in Israel and that’s where most of the expenses were incurred — $181,473. Just a small number of the delegates were with Harper during his three days in Jordan and as a result the price tag rang in at just $22,496. Harper’s half-day visit to the West Bank incurred costs of $1,217.
    http://o.canada.com/news/national/1031-public-ministers

    Federal spending on Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s international trips grows by 75 per cent

    The government as a whole spent about $10.2 million in 2011-12 on “hospitality and conference fees” for Canadian representation at international conferences and meetings, including for Harper, cabinet ministers and the Governor General — a 31 per cent increase over the previous year.

    Broken down, the prime minister’s most expensive trip in 2011-12 was his visit to Brazil, Colombia, Costa Rica and Honduras, which cost taxpayers almost $941,000 in travel expenses for Harper, a handful of ministers and dozens of advisors and employees from the PMO, Privy Council Office, Foreign Affairs and International Trade, and other departments.

    Also, the government spent nearly $1.2 million on additional hospitality and conference fees for the same five-day visit to Latin America in August 2011.

    Harper’s five-day trip to China in February 2012 for an official state visit and to promote trade cost approximately $725,000 in travel expenditures, and $972,000 in hospitality and conference fees.

    Among Harper’s cabinet, International Trade Minister Ed Fast (along with his parliamentary secretary and staff) racked up the largest international travel expenses in 2011-12 at $350,000, with Finance Minister Jim Flaherty (and parliamentary secretary and staff) next at $290,000, followed by Defence Minister Peter MacKay at $246,000.

    Oh my.. those "fiscal conservatives" sure do know how to travel in style.

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    Not facts! CONS don't like facts!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Oh my.. those "fiscal conservatives" sure do know how to travel in style.
    There is a rule in Canada that PM cannot use commercial airlines. That applies to Trudeau and Harper. The difference is, Harper brought qualified people to government missions, not his in-laws for a photo op. PS. Please explain why you think its better for Trudeau to bring his in-laws than his resources minister? Just because Obama wanted a pretty photo op? PPS. Why don't you look at the Liberal government before Harper? The Conservatives massively reduced travel when they came into power. The Liberals are already racking it up again.

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    Given that no shovels went into the ground during the CON regime and the fact that Harper never got invited to a State Dinner shows how qualified the entire cast of underlings were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Oh my.. those "fiscal conservatives" sure do know how to travel in style.
    There is a rule in Canada that PM cannot use commercial airlines. That applies to Trudeau and Harper. The difference is, Harper brought qualified people to government missions, not his in-laws for a photo op. PS. Please explain why you think its better for Trudeau to bring his in-laws than his resources minister? Just because Obama wanted a pretty photo op? PPS. Why don't you look at the Liberal government before Harper? The Conservatives massively reduced travel when they came into power. The Liberals are already racking it up again.
    Harper spent $45,000 of taxpayer money to see a baseball game and broadway show in NYC.

    No amount of your mental gymnastics can convince people that Trudeau has a comparative problem with travel expenses. His Washington trip was dirt cheap compared to the last 10 years of Harper rule.

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    Regardless of anyone's stance on Trudeau or the Liberal platform, they need to recognize that right now he is crazy popular outside of Canada and that popularity has given Canada a voice at many tables it hasn't been invited to in a very long time.

    So far, he seems to be doing a good job rebuilding relationships that had been long cold.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Harper spent $45,000 of taxpayer money to see a baseball game and broadway show in NYC.

    No amount of your mental gymnastics can convince people that Trudeau has a comparative problem with travel expenses. His Washington trip was dirt cheap compared to the last 10 years of Harper rule.
    This was a vacation, and there is a set policy which he followed and applies to all PM's re security:
    Harper reimbursed government for flight

    A spokesperson for the prime minister told CBC News that Harper covered the cost of both the flight and accommodations for himself, his daughter and two guests on the flight. He also covered the costs of tickets to the game for himself and his guests.

    "Prime Minister Harper makes it a practice of reimbursing the government for personal travel," spokesperson Julie Vaux wrote in an email. "As the prime minister is prohibited from flying commercial for security reasons, he also compensates the government for the cost of an equivalent commercial flight. In this case, he compensated for the flight for himself, his daughter, and guests at the cost of a commercial fare for each."
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/harp...-tab-1.1204212

    He didn't expense his in-laws on work trips ahead of cabinet ministers. I noticed you didn't answer why extended family are a higher priority for state visits than cabinet ministers, its all photo op royalty now, to visit a lame duck US president.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-05-2016 at 09:48 AM.

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    He expensed the flight and costs for bringing along 4 staffers, which makes up the $45k. Given the track record of his party (spend first, ask questions later), I think it is a safe bet to say he would have expensed the entire thing if he didn't get caught and dragged out in the media.

    As to why he needed to bring along four staff to a baseball game and play, no one knows.

    And in response to your in-law comment, they didn't prioritize in-laws over cabinet ministers. The expenses incurred were to bring nine cabinet ministers, as it clearly states in your national post article. The other individuals that went along were invited by Obama. I guess they could have turned down their personal invitation, but I can't see why that would be necessary except to avoid a bunch of straw-grasping sore losers from attempting to spin the story into something it isn't.

    This simple fact is this: Trudeau's trip spending has so far been far, far less than what Harper routinely allowed within his party. Trudeau's 44 person delegation to a US State dinner cost nearly half what Harper spent to bring 4 staffers to a MLB game in NYC.

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    This simple fact is this: Trudeau's trip spending has so far been far, far less than what Harper routinely allowed within his party. Trudeau's 44 person delegation to a US State dinner cost nearly half what Harper spent to bring 4 staffers to a MLB game in NYC.
    So Trudeau won't be taking any vacations? Note - he already has, and is following the same policies, I'm sure this caribean trip cost more than the MLB game. You comparing apples and oranges, Harper didn't extended family on state visits.

    http://www.citynews.ca/2016/01/11/to...bean-vacation/

    Last edited by moahunter; 10-05-2016 at 10:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Oh my.. those "fiscal conservatives" sure do know how to travel in style.
    There is a rule in Canada that PM cannot use commercial airlines. That applies to Trudeau and Harper. The difference is, Harper brought qualified people to government missions, not his in-laws for a photo op. PS. Please explain why you think its better for Trudeau to bring his in-laws than his resources minister? Just because Obama wanted a pretty photo op? PPS. Why don't you look at the Liberal government before Harper? The Conservatives massively reduced travel when they came into power. The Liberals are already racking it up again.
    So the nine cabinet ministers and associated officials aren't qualified people?

    And while the National Post didn't deem it necessary to report, other outlets have reported the expenses for the family members will be repaid, the same as Harper's practice.

    Either way, I still say that costs in the range of ~$600 per person on a government trip like this are exceedingly low.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    This simple fact is this: Trudeau's trip spending has so far been far, far less than what Harper routinely allowed within his party. Trudeau's 44 person delegation to a US State dinner cost nearly half what Harper spent to bring 4 staffers to a MLB game in NYC.
    So Trudeau won't be taking any vacations? Note - he already has, and is following the same policies, I'm sure this caribean trip cost more than the MLB game. You comparing apples and oranges, Harper didn't extended family on state visits.

    http://www.citynews.ca/2016/01/11/to...bean-vacation/
    And he followed the exact same policies for travel as Harper.

    “When travelling for personal reasons, and as was the case with previous prime ministers, Mr. Trudeau and members of his family travelling with him reimburse an economy airfare.”

    ...

    Former prime minister Stephen Harper has in the past also paid the economy fare-equivalent costs of personal travel with his family.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Moa, I hope you're on your way to Rio this summer because your mental gymnastics to spin this into a serious story deserve a gold medal.

  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Moa, I hope you're on your way to Rio this summer because your mental gymnastics to spin this into a serious story deserve a gold medal.
    He's pooling his travel expenses with some other people from C2E who thanks to all their experience in moving the goalposts have gotten ground crew jobs!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  73. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    Moa, I hope you're on your way to Rio this summer because your mental gymnastics to spin this into a serious story deserve a gold medal.
    Its just a matter of ethics Jaerdo, taking friends and family along to get selfies with the US president (even if Trudeau did cleverly call ahead to set up a "personal invite"), IMO, isn't what our PM should be doing. Being friends with Trudeau shouldn't mean getting a trip of a lifetime (even if you do pay for it). I don't care who Trudeau vacations with, and I accept there is a cost to that because he is PM, but not this when on work duty:

    The Liberal Party's national president, Anna Gainey, and chief Liberal fundraiser Stephen Bronfman, were also in attendance for the lavish White House dinner.

    The Conservatives' Scheer said Canadians were "disgusted" to know these two people — who are also known to be close personal friends of the prime minister — were "along for the ride."

    The prime minister's political friends were granted unprecedented access to senior U.S. officials. The prime minister used the state visit to help his buddies connect with Washington insiders for their own personal gain. This was clearly a reward for their political support," Scheer said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marg...nner-1.3573846
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-05-2016 at 10:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    (even if Trudeau did cleverly call ahead to set up a "personal invite")
    Is there any evidence for this or are you speculating?

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    And for what it's worth it's not unusual for people to take family on business and conference trips as long as it doesn't cost your employer anything extra.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    And for what it's worth it's not unusual for people to take family on business and conference trips as long as it doesn't cost your employer anything extra.
    You don't normally take them in to the office though to meet the President, as payback for political donations or just being a good friend / relative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    And for what it's worth it's not unusual for people to take family on business and conference trips as long as it doesn't cost your employer anything extra.
    You don't normally take them in to the office though to meet the President, as payback for political donations or just being a good friend / relative.
    Do you have any evidence of that or are you just speculating? The article you originally linked to says they were also invited by the U.S.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    I think someone asked how many they were bringing, JT said 44. I doubt if the president actually said bring your mum and in laws..

  79. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I think someone asked how many they were bringing, JT said 44. I doubt if the president actually said bring your mum and in laws..
    Nah, wake up, as Paul Turnball says, Obama just randomly happens to be best friends with Trudeau's extended family / buddies. He listed them all out of his personal, "best buddies address book", and asked that they especially come. Even the Liberal party propaganda machine, the cbc, knows this is a bit odd - per the opposition:

    The prime minister's political friends were granted unprecedented access to senior U.S. officials. The prime minister used the state visit to help his buddies connect with Washington insiders for their own personal gain. This was clearly a reward for their political support," Scheer said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marg...nner-1.3573846
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-05-2016 at 01:08 PM.

  80. #80

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    You conservative team players still getting over the fact 70% of Canadians voted against you?

    lol.

    If I were you I'd look at improving your team.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    So the just of this situation from the "conservative" side is:

    1. It is fine when Harper spends nearly double the amount on bringing staff to baseball games, but not fine when the Prime Minister brings people to an official state dinner (i.e. "do as I say, not as I do")

    2. People who are invited by the US President to join a once in a lifetime state dinner delegation should not go, because they are not important enough.

    3. A grand conspiracy exists to replace important officials with less important ones / family members on the invitation list to the US state dinner.

    Very interesting. A new low of straw-grasping? I think perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I think someone asked how many they were bringing, JT said 44. I doubt if the president actually said bring your mum and in laws..
    Nah, wake up, as Paul Turnball says, Obama just randomly happens to be best friends with Trudeau's extended family / buddies. He listed them all out of his personal, "best buddies address book", and asked that they especially come. Even the Liberal party propaganda machine, the cbc, knows this is a bit odd - per the opposition:

    The prime minister's political friends were granted unprecedented access to senior U.S. officials. The prime minister used the state visit to help his buddies connect with Washington insiders for their own personal gain. This was clearly a reward for their political support," Scheer said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marg...nner-1.3573846
    The CBC saying that, proves it's wacky by JT.

  83. #83

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    In the US they spend millions on their leaders. Nobody cares. Here they obsess over the PM's expenses to the point where they don't even want to fix the PM's house.

    Canadians don't wants tax dollars abused. But pomp and ceremony is just the name of the game when it comes to international relations. It's not cheap.

    Everybody has that experience where you spend a significant amount of money entertaining a family member, but that same family member wouldn't spend a dime on you. Unfortunately in this case, the cheap family member = Canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I think someone asked how many they were bringing, JT said 44. I doubt if the president actually said bring your mum and in laws..
    Nah, wake up, as Paul Turnball says, Obama just randomly happens to be best friends with Trudeau's extended family / buddies. He listed them all out of his personal, "best buddies address book", and asked that they especially come. Even the Liberal party propaganda machine, the cbc, knows this is a bit odd - per the opposition:

    The prime minister's political friends were granted unprecedented access to senior U.S. officials. The prime minister used the state visit to help his buddies connect with Washington insiders for their own personal gain. This was clearly a reward for their political support," Scheer said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marg...nner-1.3573846
    The CBC saying that, proves it's wacky by JT.
    The CBC was reporting what a Conservative MP, Scheer, said.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Unless you're harper at a MLB game or jetting around to 5 star hotels in Israel. Then no one questions it, because hey - he's a fiscal conservative, isn't he?

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    In the US they spend millions on their leaders. Nobody cares. Here they obsess over the PM's expenses to the point where they don't even want to fix the PM's house.

    Canadians don't wants tax dollars abused. But pomp and ceremony is just the name of the game when it comes to international relations. It's not cheap.

    Everybody has that experience where you spend a significant amount of money entertaining a family member, but that same family member wouldn't spend a dime on you. Unfortunately in this case, the cheap family member = Canada.
    Isn't it funny how nobody wrote like this when Harper was in power? He goes on a vacation and follows all the rules, personally reimburses the costs his family had, and its a big scandal, but if Trudeau takes best buddies to meet Obama at a state event to open doors for them so they can personally benefit... that's fine...

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    Who brings 4 staffers along to a family vacation?

    What 4 staffers cost $45,000 to bring to a MLB game?

    What kind of 5 day trip to China comes with $725,000 in travel expenses?

    How do you spend over $900,000 in travel expenses to latin america?

    So many questions from the Harper years, so few answers.

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    Don't criticize Saint Justin - it's not allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    In the US they spend millions on their leaders. Nobody cares. Here they obsess over the PM's expenses to the point where they don't even want to fix the PM's house.

    Canadians don't wants tax dollars abused. But pomp and ceremony is just the name of the game when it comes to international relations. It's not cheap.

    Everybody has that experience where you spend a significant amount of money entertaining a family member, but that same family member wouldn't spend a dime on you. Unfortunately in this case, the cheap family member = Canada.
    Isn't it funny how nobody wrote like this when Harper was in power? He goes on a vacation and follows all the rules, personally reimburses the costs his family had, and its a big scandal, but if Trudeau takes best buddies to meet Obama at a state event to open doors for them so they can personally benefit... that's fine...

    QP was fun today, not one person believes Trudeau..so funny!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Don't criticize Saint Justin - it's not allowed.
    Gosh no, expect that even the media are doing this now. QP on CTV had Craig Oliver saying we need to help Alberta and they need pipelines I was surprised, but once again, we know JT wont build any.
    He would rather tax small business

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Don't criticize Saint Justin - it's not allowed.
    Yip, someone can always trot out "but Harper was worse" so Saint Justin is perfect (although I am not aware of any state occasion where Harper brought buddies along, so they could make friends with powerful politicians / business connections. We didn't pay for nannys either).

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    And yet another cavalcade of hopelessly disenfranchised conservatives drinks the neolib kool-aid and hurts their own message by inflating a non-issue while completely ignoring real ones...

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Don't criticize Saint Justin - it's not allowed.
    Yip, someone can always trot out "but Harper was worse" so Saint Justin is perfect (although I am not aware of any state occasion where Harper brought buddies along, so they could make friends with powerful politicians / business connections. We didn't pay for nannys either).
    If you don't have any buddies, then you can't bring them along.

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    If you don't have any buddies you are bringing them all along.

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    Yup.

    Just you and your twig 'n berries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Yup.

    Just you and your twig 'n berries.
    Yup,fruits and nuts as one

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    If you don't have any buddies you are bringing them all along.
    Unless you just weren't invited in the first place, which was the case with Harper.

  98. #98

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    For cripes sake, don't bleat about how many millions Captain Selfie spends jet setting all over the globe with sweet F A to show for it. Captain Selfie the budget messiah can waste all the time he wants and spend as much as he wants on socializing as he has predicted the budget will balance itself.



    This is how it's done!.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0daf53aee1270
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Could be worse:


    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  100. #100

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    ^Could you supply the source for the cr*p you post as otherwise WTF is this picture supposed to represent.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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