Results 1 to 56 of 56

Thread: Anyone into music production?

  1. #1
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default Anyone into music production?

    I've been trying to get into this since 2010 with mixed results. At first I wanted to produce pop/punk music on the computer using software and I bought some programs like Cubase 6 etc. I bought Native Instruments Komplete 8 and Maschine MK2. Then after a lot of messing around I discovered a lot of producers on YouTube using hardware like Volca's, iPads and other gear. Now this is the direction I want to go. Anybody here into this hobby?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  2. #2
    never answered e-mail
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Peachland
    Posts
    1,579

    Default

    I simply use garageband on my mac book, and my input interface is a two 1/4 inch/XLR input/output duet (apogee) - it also has a midi input. This allows me to input guitar,bass, vocals, keys, loops, etc. Even the basic Garageband product has drum loops that are easily manipulated for song writing and putting out pretty spectacular quality demos. Bang for your buck, you can't go wrong with garageband!

    Cubase from what I've farted around and understand a is step below the more expensive software like Protools, etc. My friend is a recording engineer and says that Cubase is a solid product. I don't have a lot of experience with the Volcas, etc. We just use the good ol' Korg keyboard products and mini moogs of the world

  3. #3
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    I don't even know anymore :/
    Posts
    1,197

    Default

    I've used logic, FL studios and ableton live. Ableton is by far the best of those in my opinion. The komplete stuff is really good, and if you're looking into other synthesizers I'd look into Native Instruments Massive. I find it a lot easier and more intuitive than other synths.

  4. #4
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glasshead View Post
    I simply use garageband on my mac book, and my input interface is a two 1/4 inch/XLR input/output duet (apogee) - it also has a midi input. This allows me to input guitar,bass, vocals, keys, loops, etc. Even the basic Garageband product has drum loops that are easily manipulated for song writing and putting out pretty spectacular quality demos. Bang for your buck, you can't go wrong with garageband!

    Cubase from what I've farted around and understand a is step below the more expensive software like Protools, etc. My friend is a recording engineer and says that Cubase is a solid product. I don't have a lot of experience with the Volcas, etc. We just use the good ol' Korg keyboard products and mini moogs of the world
    Nice to see this thread having some legs. Garageband 2 (as I understand it) works with 64 bit i0S devices. I have the iPad 2 but I hope to get the 9.7" iPad pro next fall or wait for the iPad pro mini. Garageband is a great app. Love it. I like the new Moog mother 37. That's on my list of gear after the iPad and the OP-1 by Teenage Engineering. The Volca's have a new edition with the Volca FM. Cool product. Actually Cubase Pro 8 blows Pro Tools out of the water. So many good DAW's out there but I'm trying to break away from software to more hardware synths like the Volca's, Novations Circuit etc. I'm aiming for a more performance Live feel to my music production. More organic then software. Roland's AIRA gear looks good also. I get my gear from Long & McQuade.
    Last edited by envaneo; 22-05-2016 at 02:35 PM.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  5. #5
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    I've used logic, FL studios and ableton live. Ableton is by far the best of those in my opinion. The komplete stuff is really good, and if you're looking into other synthesizers I'd look into Native Instruments Massive. I find it a lot easier and more intuitive than other synths.
    Ableton is ranked as the best for music production to be sure. I'd suggest Saint Joe's Sounds & Gear channel. He's big on Ableton. I have Komplete 8 but it runs slow on my 2009 laptop. Massive is included in Komplete
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  6. #6
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    It really depends on what kind of music you are trying to produce.

    I haven't used Ableton Live for many years (though I still have it). I wouldn't call it music production software in the normal sense of the word, unless what you do is EDM, dance music, or beats for Hip-Hop or something. It's fantastic for live (hence the name), and I suppose it would be attractive to someone who doesn't know what they are doing because you don't need to know music (theory, arranging, composition, etc), or how to play an instrument.

    It's best for triggering clips. Live is so much fun to play live. That's where it kills other software. It's brilliant. But not so much in the studio except for a narrow, specific scope of production.

    I think of Live as being primarily useful for live performance as opposed to music production. It's more of a software suite for DJ's, though you could certainly use it for music production. Not many instruments. More useful for playing clips. I can't imagine recording an actual instrument or singer using the Live interface, though it's no doubt changed a lot since I last used it maybe 8 years ago.

    The big 2 would probably be Pro Tools and Logic. I use Adobe Audition a lot, because it's part of Adobe CC suite, and it works great with Premier Pro and After Effects. Logic is easier to learn, but still a steep curve. I just don't have the time I'd need to invest to learn Pro Tools, or the money either.

    My personal preference, by a long shot, is Reason. It does it all for me. I've been using it for 13 years. Most of what I do involves singing or playing an instrument (guitar, bass, keyboards). It's really fast for getting my ideas down.

    Reason use their own plugins, so if you have a lot invested in VST or AU plugins you may want to stick with one of the others.

    I know a lot of people like Garageband, but it feels like a toy compared to Reason. I guess it's largely what you get used to.

    The Stanley Milner library have two recording booths that can be reserved. They each have a workstation, and you can try out different applications there.

    I also use Final Touch on my iPad for Mastering. And I use BIAS amp modelling to record guitar. Really good solutions overall.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 23-05-2016 at 02:42 AM.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  7. #7
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    i^ At the moment I'm doing Trap, techno, House, EDM, stuff like that with hardware.

    You still need to know some music theory. I can play a bit of piano and I know the major and minor scale. Cubase pro 8 (I don't have but its on my wish list)

    Ableton Live suite has new hardware controllers such as Push and others. Seems more producers are using Ableton but I agree with what your saying here. Ableton doesn't seem to develop their product as much as Cubase, Sonar (Roland) and FL and even Pro Tools. I have FL 8 and use it occasionally but my 2009 laptop (almost full cpu can't keep up)

    I think the big 2 would probably be Ableton and FL Studio. I'm with you on the time and investment and the learning curve of a lot of these DAW's. From what I know of Reason a colleague used to go by the name Rekesh maybe now Kesh. (haven't seen him in years) uses Reason on his rap stuff and the interface seems so much like modular synthesis.

    I've got more then enough VST's. I'm 2 years away from getting a iMac since the AU format is mostly for iOS. Right now I'm using my iPad 2 for apps and my iPod 5th Gen to record the iPad screen, using Windows Movie Maker on my newly acquired Lenova pc stick. I got so disillusioned with being bogged down by a slow cpu and programming almost turned me off on the hobby until I noticed a lot of YouTube producers using hardware like Volcas, OP-1, and Electribes and stuff. My headphones really bring out the bass response. There are some great producers out there Like Kink, Cuckoo, etc doing fantastic ambient/house stuff. Over the past year I'm learning my craft and producing the odd bits here and there.

    Actually with the 2.0 release of Garageband for 64 bit iOS devices, Garageband has significantly improved. There are so many great apps for the iOS musician out there. I've got Audioshare, audiobus, iMaschine 2, Funkbox and other drum machines. I'd like to get AUM and other apps but I can't hold much on our 16 Gb iPad 2. Even my New Ntendo 3DS works great with Detunes DS-12. Another app I want to get.

    I knew the Makerspace had 1 sound studio, I didn't know they had 2. I called them and asked them if they plan on getting any Volca's or Electribe's but they didn't have a answer for me. The use Wondershare for video editing. Every time when I try to book studio time, I'm eather working or sleeping. Hard to book time when your working 6 days a week. Hopefully I'll be able to book some studio time this summer.

    I've never heard of Finale Touch for the Ipad. I've got Guitar Rig in Cubase but the cpu on my laptop cant keep up. I got it just before I discovered music production. Now I want to use mainly hardware. Laptops are ok I suppose but I need at least a 2.5Ghz or higher cpu and I doubt I can get that on a Mac book without over clocking and the best Mac books offer in hd space is 1 Tb. When I get my iMac, it'll be a i7 with multi quad cor, 1 Tb fusion drive and 2 TB hd's with 64 Ram. Since gaming on the iMac is a low priority graphics aren't that important
    Last edited by envaneo; 23-05-2016 at 11:16 AM.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  8. #8
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    That's a lot of cool stuff. There are so many options for the modern music maker.

    I write mostly standard songs (that is, as if a band was playing instruments and singing). Some can be pretty goofy or weird, but I have an audience of 1 to please - me.

    I don't have a consistent work flow, but, generally, I use Reason first as a composition tool. There was a time when Reason did not support live recording, say, from a microphone. But it was great for getting down the idea, and the arrangement.

    Since 7 (I think, I've been using it since 2.0) Reason has integrated it's recording app, so it's even more useful for me. I do 90% of my work there. I use Adobe Audition if I want to give it some gloss, and for it's incredible noise reduction tools. I also often use Audition so I can use my BIAS plugin, instead of using the app.

    Once I have a song coming together in my mind I try to find a drum clip that has the right feel and it will play for the duration of the song. Once I have the general overall arrangement idea, I put down the bass track for the arrangement, even though the drums might not fit for certain parts.

    Then I might do a scratch vocal, even if I don't have all the words. Once I know what's going on, I add guitars and keyboards, and maybe some other stuff. Then go back over it again and again until it starts to feel like music.

    At this point it's usually a jumbled mess. I get it close as possible, then I strip the drums out and add a click track. Then I send the song with click to a drummer in Toronto, and he records the drum tracks (he has a great room with a lot of mics, so I can take it a few different directions).

    I get a world class drummer to play on my song, for $100. It would cost a lot more to rent a studio, hire the drummer, and hire an engineer, so it really works out great for both of us.

    I could do the same for any instrument or for vocals if I need to. That's the biggest advance modern recording has afforded me. I can easily collaborate with top notch musicians from around the world.

    The black arts of mixing and mastering are a work in progress for me. If I have something I want to take further, I'll give it to my buddy Stew at Sound Extractor Studios. He's just brilliant!

    Final Touch is an app by the same people who make the excellent BIAS amp modelling app. What an amazing time saver. I had a friend who's recorded a few albums listen to the same songs run through Final Touch, and they sounded a lot better, to me. But not to him. I think he was feeling threatened that I could push a button and do a better job of mastering than the guy he paid thousands of dollars.

    Of course it's subjective. But the majority of musicians I know (and I know a lot of musicians) are heavily invested in an old paradigm, and it's not always serving them well. I'm tired of hearing from them that their music is "real", and computer generated music is "fake" because it's "easy".

    For me - the easier, the better. If I have a tool that can save me countless hours and do things that were previously impossible - I'll use it.

    A lot of musicians are just starting to come around. When I say Pro Tools is the biggest one, I mean it's the one in just about every big studio.

    The fact people can produce their music from start to finish in their bedroom has led to a different kind of music being made. A friend and sometimes sound tech just hates a lot of the new bedroom studio music, saying how this level is wrong, and the vocals are poorly recorded.

    Meanwhile, people are coming up with charming little ditties like this.

    Keep it up!
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  9. #9
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    This is the synth I'd really like to have right now.

    Roli Seaboard
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  10. #10
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    I've seen Cuckoo demo this keyboard on his channel.

    I hate that too when "guitar police" come out and say it sounds midi. "Computer music is not real music," which is crap because if your going to produce music the producer needs to know music theory and a little bit about arranging. Other wise its just noise. How often do I hear that and I ask them if they can site read (read music) heck, not even the Beatles could read music.
    I know what a rest is and what a dotted quarter note is. I can't play a guitar but I know what a flat 7 is and where to find "C".

    I'd also like to get into modular synthesis like the Moog mother 37.
    Last edited by envaneo; 23-05-2016 at 11:36 PM.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  11. #11
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    I love noise

    Though often thought of as rooted in the 18th and 19th centuries, many Classical music composers have been at the leading edge of new music, experimental music, and electronic music, for more than a century, rejecting entrenched ideas of tonality as "old fashioned" since at least Schoenberg.

    It's really handy to have a good grasp of theory. But it can be a trap when theory becomes rules that must not be broken. It's supposed to be a means to an end. A lot of modern pop music is rooted in the beat anyway. The groove, or feel. As long as it sounds cool to you, it's alright.

    Break the rules.

    Of course on a keyboard the notes are laid out for you, in black & white as we like to say. Transposing to another key (say, moving from C Major to F Major) is as easy as pushing a button, or selecting all of your midi notes in the sequencer and moving them up or down.

    You could easily write everything in C (using only the white notes) and change keys later. I think Irving Berlin did that, and he was one of the greatest modern American composers. If you're looking for the "funky scale" try using the C scale, only the white keys, but going from D to D instead. It's the Dorian mode, and you've got a minor 3rd, and a flat 7.

    I'd recommend screwing around with that scale for awhile, paying special attention to the (minor) 3rd (F), (perfect) 5th (A), (minor, or flat) 7th (C), and the Tonic (D). Chords (generally) are built using every second note of the scale, so playing D F A and C together would be a minor 7th chord, which is very common in modern dance music.

    Don't worry about reading music, or things like dotted quarter notes, at all. In many cases you won't need to use any other notes but the white notes. There are zillions of modern songs that never stray from the Dorian mode.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  12. #12
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Most of what I want to produce is experimental, House, Trap, and funky ambient jams anyway, with some modular tossed in to keep things interesting. Not a lot of music theory involved. For the most part I know my way around the Keyboard and I can even read a bit of sheet music if I have too. Songwriting is the same as story telling. Its all about telling stories. The Ramones made a career of using just 3 chords. As long as it sounds good, who cares?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  13. #13
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    The #1 rule, and perhaps the only rule that you shouldn't break, is please yourself.

    Of course it doesn't mean anyone else has to like it. But if you don't like it, you're going to be uninspired, and your performance is going to suck.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  14. #14
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    ^ Makes sense.

    Last night while watching the hockey game, I restored an old app called iSequence. Sadly it doesn't have Audiobus support. Apple's Garageband might support it on their inter app audio.

    I'll be messing around with this on the couch during the Sharks game tonight
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  15. #15
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    That's funny - I use hockey games as practice sessions for guitar.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  16. #16
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    ^LOL, but you don't need to have your guitar charged up like my iPad. Some of those apps really burn the battery.

    Its not much but you can view some of my stuff here.

    https://www.youtube.com/dashboard?o=U
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  17. #17
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Thanks, I'll check it out.

    Reason 9 is coming out soon with some new instruments, including a "scale and chord" instrument that makes it easier to get chords and extensions without really knowing how to build them. As much as it's a cool instrument that allows people with no training to play advanced chords and harmonies, it's also a learning tool as those same people learn what certain chords sound like.

    Just came across this fellow. I love this kind of kooky stuff! Messer Für Frau Müller
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  18. #18
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    Have you guys looked at a high end arranger keyboard?

    I know they get a bit of a bad rap as being something of a 'toy' which, at the upper end, is a definite misnomer.

    As a songwriting tool they're pretty swift at getting your ideas down. Full-blown onboard sequencing, tweakability to the nth degree - Korg are brilliant at this, great synth engines, and a fantastic range of sounds (nothing to stop you using VSTs in conjunction, if you want). Pitch correction for your vocals, harmoniser, miles of effects. An all in one solution, really.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  19. #19
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    ^ Yeah, most of these arranger Keyboards are pretty good. The Roland FA 06 is a good example of a "low cost" arranger keyboard. Yamaha also has some decent ones that come with Cubase SE. The Roland works good with Sonar and is probably one of the most affordable, arranger/workstation keyboards. Your probably referring to Native Installments S series keyboards but most of these are controllers, same with the Akai Advance. If you want to sequence on a budget and you have a 2.0 Ghz computer processor or better M-Audio has their Ignite system. Everything is reordered and arranged in blocks on the screen with full Export functionality and tons of instruments and affects, and its free. For the budding iOS musician like myself there's Korgs Gadget and a host of similar in app audio options but I also see a arranger keyboard on my radar eventually.
    Last edited by envaneo; 26-05-2016 at 06:52 PM.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  20. #20
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    You'd probably crucify me for this , but I presently own a Korg i30, a Pa1xPro, and a Pa3x and apart from some tweaks (which I get into, but not too, too deep) I just don't have enough interest in all the computer stuff involved with the jungle of software that's out there these days.

    I admire guys like yourself and Jimbo who seem to have all this stuff nailed down. Good luck with your efforts.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  21. #21
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    ^ Actually I'm trying to get away from programing on the computer. Unless you have a fast processor and lots of hard drive space or a iMac, yeah good luck to you. I'm just going to stick with hardware like drum machines and an iPad. From what I know of the Korg Pa3x, its a high end work station priced about $3k.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  22. #22
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    I can't afford a high end workstation, or justify one, because I'm not really a keyboard player. I wish I was. I'm a guitarist, and sometimes vocalist. Live, I sing and play guitar, like a zillion other people.

    I use a keyboard as a controller. It could be horn shots, triggering samples, a synth patch, any percussion instrument, or, fairly often, a piano. I can always switch it after, and, of course, endless tweaking of the effects.

    Piano is right there for you, in black and white, as they say. I keep it simple, slow it down, play the obvious (to me) notes, and allow myself to make mistakes as far as the note goes, going instead for the right rhythm. It's much easier to fix the notes than it is to try to move midi notes to the right rhythm (though I can snap to the drum groove, it doesn't always come out right. Easier to play the wrong notes you can easily reach at the right time).

    Two octaves is best, because I like to plug it in, stick it on my lap, and play. I really need to set up my home workstation a lot better, and I'm looking at a better desk from L&M.

    There are a lot of ways to go about making music. The options I have today were unimaginable when I was learning music.

    I use Reason because I've been using it as a writing tool for so many years. But even in Reason, there are vast areas I don't understand. Most of the people who use it, I presume, use it to make some form of electronic dance music or hip-hop. I used it to chart out songs. But I also did a ton of just experimenting with everything, and got some really weird stuff that I really enjoyed at the time, but wouldn't be something I'd expect anyone else to like.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 27-05-2016 at 12:57 AM.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  23. #23
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Unlike Axe LM has rentals on everything including the desk your looking at. Axe music doesn't have the same credit program as LM. I got Komplete 8 on a rental (credit) and Maschine mk2. A year after I bought mk2, Native Instruments brought out their Maschine Studio. Thanks to the flux of the Canadian dollar Maschine mk2 is now priced at $850. I bought it at just under $600 in 2012. Its not LM raising the prices of their gear or even the company that manufactures the product but the Canadian dollar.

    I think if I had the money I'd get a Yamaha psr990s, and its got a tone of tools. Its priced reasonably well and wont' break the bank on credit, and has a couple of on board speakers. The Yamaha works good with Cubase/Steinburg since Yamaha and steinburg are the same company.

    I'm not so much into "programing notes" as you seem to be, I think that's great that you are. It all depends on ones work flow.

    I got into the hobby late in life but I'm not out to re invent the wheel. I've been asked a few times over the years to front a punk rock band but I don't have that much time, drive and commitment. I work in a call centre and guys have always made comments on my voice. Some even brought laptops into the office before shifts. I'd humor them and sing a few songs laughed and went back to work.



    The above is where I spend most of my time. Once and if I make pension, I hope to replace that monitor with a iMac.

    When I first got into this hobby, 2010 a colleague had reason on his laptop. Then I got a copy of Sonar a bit later and used that, then I bought FL Studio in 2011 and Cubase in 2012.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  24. #24
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    I haven't recorded anything this past five or six years. One of the last ones was a version of Dire Straits' song Walk of Life. This was recorded into an early version of Adobe Audition and done on two tracks.

    Track one was my trusty old Korg i30 played live, having been set up within the keyboard itself.

    Track two was vocals - myself on lead and wifey on harmonies.

    The harmonies were generated from an ancient Korg ih harmoniser triggered by my left hand chords. I can't remember what the actual harmonic setup was.

    The only "post-processing" in Audition was a wee bit of compression and reverb on vocals.

    Here's the track:
    https://app.box.com/shared/u74sl3uf8h

    What this really goes to show is how useful an arranger keyboard can be in laying down songs.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  25. #25
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Impressive, better then anything I could do. How did you produce the drums?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  26. #26
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    Thanks for the listen.

    No 'producing' on my part at all. The drums on the recording are the stock, unadulterated midi drums within the Korg i30 itself. As I mentioned earlier, I'm not into heavy tweaking and the i30 had nowhere near the capabilities of the later models. These days you can adjust a whole slew of parameters of individual drums within the selected kit - and there literally dozens of kits all on board.

    BTW, the harmoniser, the onboard TC Helicon harmonisers of newer models just blow the old ih model out of the water. The range of effects is just tremendous.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  27. #27
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    You should put some of your stuff on YouTube. Its not the music I want to produce but its good.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  28. #28
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Cool, Howie.

    I'm going to have to get more stuff completed. I must have hundreds of songs "sketched out", but it's a means to an end rather than an end for me thus far.

    I'm a big fan of guitar instrumentals. I did a kooky little tune that has the parts blocked out (still some work to do - I'm changing the 5 chord). ShakaBOOM!
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  29. #29
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    Oh Yeah! Loved it. A modern-day Duane Eddy with some punch - hope you don't mind me saying that . I was just waiting for the ripping sax solo to bite in there.

    So, what were that drums on that, Jim?

    @envaneo: I guess, like Jim, I too am a bit of an arsedragger when it comes to putting stuff down. Re. YouTube, here's a live clip, same flippin' song, we did with my old i30 at Canada Place a while back. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4_6H2JT_u4
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  30. #30
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/

  31. #31
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Oh Yeah! Loved it. A modern-day Duane Eddy with some punch - hope you don't mind me saying that . I was just waiting for the ripping sax solo to bite in there.

    So, what were that drums on that, Jim?

    @envaneo: I guess, like Jim, I too am a bit of an arsedragger when it comes to putting stuff down. Re. YouTube, here's a live clip, same flippin' song, we did with my old i30 at Canada Place a while back. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4_6H2JT_u4
    The "finished version" might have a crazy sax solo, some screams during the solo, and even a Wolfman in it

    The drums were played by Edmonton expat Joel Anderson. Joel lives in TO now, and plays in the Jim Cuddy band, Kathleen Edwards, among others.

    I do the song using drum loops and midi, and get it as close as I can for the feel. Then I strip the drums and send the file to Joel, and he records the drums.

    Once I have the drums, I generally replace everything. I haven't gotten around to rerecording anything yet.

    And as far as leaving mastering to human ears, it's always a good idea to have it done by someone other than oneself. It's best to get a second set of ears.

    I'm only going to do that if I'm a lot further along in the process, and I have the money to waste. It's a hobby for me.

    Final Touch works great for me as a mastering tool. Soundcloud is a toy, and not a very good one. You need a lot more control. These days you can have any song mastered by an award winning mastering engineer for $100 or so. They just listen to the song, apply their own presets, and adjust as necessary.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 30-05-2016 at 02:07 PM.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  32. #32

    Default

    I'm really impressed with the music talent. Who's done "Whiter Shade of Pale"?.
    That would be a great track to do on all those music gadgets.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  33. #33
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^LOL, but you don't need to have your guitar charged up like my iPad. Some of those apps really burn the battery.

    Its not much but you can view some of my stuff here.

    https://www.youtube.com/dashboard?o=U
    I can't get your stuff with the link. It goes to my own dashboard, after making me sign in.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  34. #34
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    I don't even know anymore :/
    Posts
    1,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.

  35. #35
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    What software are you using?

    I use the aforementioned Reason, which has it's own mastering suite built in. I use it judiciously, because I use Audition or Final Touch (iPad app) to do the real mastering (though I'm not an engineer by a long shot - so I'm not necessarily the best person to ask).

    The trick for me is to have it sound big while still carving out a space for the individual instruments and vocals.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  36. #36
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Oh Yeah! Loved it. A modern-day Duane Eddy with some punch - hope you don't mind me saying that . I was just waiting for the ripping sax solo to bite in there.

    So, what were that drums on that, Jim?

    @envaneo: I guess, like Jim, I too am a bit of an arsedragger when it comes to putting stuff down. Re. YouTube, here's a live clip, same flippin' song, we did with my old i30 at Canada Place a while back. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4_6H2JT_u4
    The "finished version" might have a crazy sax solo, some screams during the solo, and even a Wolfman in it

    The drums were played by Edmonton expat Joel Anderson. Joel lives in TO now, and plays in the Jim Cuddy band, Kathleen Edwards, among others.

    I do the song using drum loops and midi, and get it as close as I can for the feel. Then I strip the drums and send the file to Joel, and he records the drums.

    Once I have the drums, I generally replace everything. I haven't gotten around to rerecording anything yet.

    And as far as leaving mastering to human ears, it's always a good idea to have it done by someone other than oneself. It's best to get a second set of ears.

    I'm only going to do that if I'm a lot further along in the process, and I have the money to waste. It's a hobby for me.

    Final Touch works great for me as a mastering tool. Soundcloud is a toy, and not a very good one. You need a lot more control. These days you can have any song mastered by an award winning mastering engineer for $100 or so. They just listen to the song, apply their own presets, and adjust as necessary.
    As I suspected, then. The drums were too human on your track although, as you know, the gap is closing between VST and real. It's all about the feel and groove, though. I think some mightily skilled producer types can pull it off, but there's just something about the human touch that's just that bit more convincing. Don't put me in a blind sound test, though.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  37. #37
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    Myself, I don't do any mastering. There are better ears around than mine and an independent set of ears doesn't have the same subjectivity that one's own might. As I previously mentioned, all my instrument tracks are mixed in the keyboard and then recorded in one shot - far from the right way of doing things, I know, but then I'm not heavily into recording, anyway.

    Just a quick thought re. "annoyingly quiet": is your signal hot enough going in? Sometimes that's easily overlooked - been there, done that.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  38. #38
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    Your software should have a "Normalize" feature to bring up the noise. I just uploaded another "song" to my YouTube channel. Its not much but its getting there.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  39. #39
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Oh Yeah! Loved it. A modern-day Duane Eddy with some punch - hope you don't mind me saying that . I was just waiting for the ripping sax solo to bite in there.

    So, what were that drums on that, Jim?

    @envaneo: I guess, like Jim, I too am a bit of an arsedragger when it comes to putting stuff down. Re. YouTube, here's a live clip, same flippin' song, we did with my old i30 at Canada Place a while back. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B4_6H2JT_u4
    The "finished version" might have a crazy sax solo, some screams during the solo, and even a Wolfman in it

    The drums were played by Edmonton expat Joel Anderson. Joel lives in TO now, and plays in the Jim Cuddy band, Kathleen Edwards, among others.

    I do the song using drum loops and midi, and get it as close as I can for the feel. Then I strip the drums and send the file to Joel, and he records the drums.

    Once I have the drums, I generally replace everything. I haven't gotten around to rerecording anything yet.

    And as far as leaving mastering to human ears, it's always a good idea to have it done by someone other than oneself. It's best to get a second set of ears.

    I'm only going to do that if I'm a lot further along in the process, and I have the money to waste. It's a hobby for me.

    Final Touch works great for me as a mastering tool. Soundcloud is a toy, and not a very good one. You need a lot more control. These days you can have any song mastered by an award winning mastering engineer for $100 or so. They just listen to the song, apply their own presets, and adjust as necessary.
    As I suspected, then. The drums were too human on your track although, as you know, the gap is closing between VST and real. It's all about the feel and groove, though. I think some mightily skilled producer types can pull it off, but there's just something about the human touch that's just that bit more convincing. Don't put me in a blind sound test, though.
    Most sequencing software has a "swing" feature, which make programmed drums sound less robotic. Or a simple drum loop works good if you need a click track. FL. Studio has tons of drum loops in their initial software.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  40. #40
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ... The drums were too human on your track although, as you know, the gap is closing between VST and real. It's all about the feel and groove, though. I think some mightily skilled producer types can pull it off, but there's just something about the human touch that's just that bit more convincing. Don't put me in a blind sound test, though.
    Most sequencing software has a "swing" feature, which make programmed drums sound less robotic. Or a simple drum loop works good if you need a click track. FL. Studio has tons of drum loops in their initial software.
    I often use midi to write the basic drum part and block out the song. Unless it's some robotic thing, I'll either apply swing, or print a groove (Reason) that I can apply to all my sequencing.

    I ALWAYS have something I played "by hand".

    Once I apply the swing or groove, I always have to go back and fix it where it moved the note to the wrong place.

    I sequence all of the horns, but I don't try too hard to make it sound "real". I rather be honest about being "fake". And some, of course, are "real", in that they're a loop. I have Memphis Horns on one of my songs, and it's the real thing.

    I write all kinds of stuff, but I'm mostly working on stuff I can sing and play live with a band. I really struggle with the vocals. Auto tune bugs me, though I always try it. When I write the song in my head, I can sing great.

    Once I have the basics down (and it can be really basic) I look for a loop (with variations - a set of loops) that works as well as I can. I have quite a few loops, though the kind of ones I'm looking for can be hard to find. Again, Reason have a Memphis thing I've used.

    Getting the drums to sound organic is a constant , never ending battle. It was so much simpler to just get it close, get the basic feel and parts mapped out, and send it to a good drummer who knows me and how I work.

    You can get a top Nashville pro to play on your track for less than $200 if you know the right fellow.

    It's still not optimal. The best would be to work with a drummer directly over a long time - the really organic way. Or sit down with the drummer in a studio and go over it, with a back and forth. But that costs a lot of money, especially if you have to fly a drummer in from Toronto.

    There's still a back and forth, but it takes days instead of seconds.

    Still, the ability to be able to do something like that, relatively cheaply and easily, is a little mind boggling. I expect a lot of collaborations like this
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  41. #41
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    I don't even know anymore :/
    Posts
    1,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    What software are you using?

    I use the aforementioned Reason, which has it's own mastering suite built in. I use it judiciously, because I use Audition or Final Touch (iPad app) to do the real mastering (though I'm not an engineer by a long shot - so I'm not necessarily the best person to ask).

    The trick for me is to have it sound big while still carving out a space for the individual instruments and vocals.
    I use Ableton, and a couple external programs, but usually their in program stuff seems to work decently. Yeah mastering involves a lot of equalizing, and it will sound good in my nice headphones, but not in any other speakers.

  42. #42
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    I don't even know anymore :/
    Posts
    1,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    Myself, I don't do any mastering. There are better ears around than mine and an independent set of ears doesn't have the same subjectivity that one's own might. As I previously mentioned, all my instrument tracks are mixed in the keyboard and then recorded in one shot - far from the right way of doing things, I know, but then I'm not heavily into recording, anyway.

    Just a quick thought re. "annoyingly quiet": is your signal hot enough going in? Sometimes that's easily overlooked - been there, done that.
    So you send your sound stems to someone else to master? Ive thought about that but it seems expensive for someone who makes music as a hobby. Yeah most of my stuff ends up hitting 0db pretty consistently, In fact a lot of the time I have trouble keeping it loud while not having it clip.

  43. #43
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    A colleague Dave Kirilo <spelling? plays in a local metal band. I said I would like to do a cover of Joe Lavine's (Ohio Express) "Down at Lu lu's" cool song. Dave said he would help me out with the guitar work for a bottle of pop. Also, my buddy Tim is one of the best drummers I know said he'd lay down a drum track for me as well. My vocals make dogs howl and cats scream.

    Since I'm getting more into Trap, House, experimental jams, I'm straying away from that stuff.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  44. #44
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    I don't even know anymore :/
    Posts
    1,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    Your software should have a "Normalize" feature to bring up the noise. I just uploaded another "song" to my YouTube channel. Its not much but its getting there.
    I've actually found that the normalize makes it worse, brings things down to the level of the quieter sections instead of bringing everything up.

  45. #45
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    ^ Depends on what kind of music your after, and where your hosting it. If your just going to host your tacks onto YouTube, mastering isn't that necessary. I'm no expert but I say this because it depends on the end users headphones, environment etc. The other thing is if your clipping, its because (if your using a computer) your cpu is being compromised or there are some instruments where the Db's are not balanced.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  46. #46
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    Myself, I don't do any mastering. There are better ears around than mine and an independent set of ears doesn't have the same subjectivity that one's own might. As I previously mentioned, all my instrument tracks are mixed in the keyboard and then recorded in one shot - far from the right way of doing things, I know, but then I'm not heavily into recording, anyway.

    Just a quick thought re. "annoyingly quiet": is your signal hot enough going in? Sometimes that's easily overlooked - been there, done that.
    So you send your sound stems to someone else to master? Ive thought about that but it seems expensive for someone who makes music as a hobby. Yeah most of my stuff ends up hitting 0db pretty consistently, In fact a lot of the time I have trouble keeping it loud while not having it clip.
    No, there's no mastering at all on my recording. Further up the thread I explained that I'm using an arranger keyboard (on that track it was the Korg i30).

    Just in case you're not familiar with arranger keyboards, they essentially construct 'backings' which are created automatically by playing chords with the left hand which the keyboard then interprets into a full backing complete with bass, percussion, drums and three accompaniment tracks (all of which are freely configurable with the instrument of your choice). On the i30, you have a further three tracks for right hand voices, again freely configurable, with which to play melody lines, solos, or additional chorded passages with strings or, say, brass stabs and such. Along the way, you insert your fills, breaks, etc., on the fly. If you have a decent sense of timing, it's not as risky as it sounds.

    So you construct your backing, play your right hand figures over the top to augment what your right hand is doing, then sing on top. That's the "live" playing part of it. For recording, the backing tracks are laid down first and the vocals added on subsequent tracks.

    All that might sound a bit complicated (but what Jim does downright scares me). I'm primarily a live singer with some keyboard chops and not really into the recording thing.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  47. #47
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Thoughts of this thread while reading this. Leave the mastering to human ears.

    http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/...-an-auto-turd/
    Speaking of mastering, what do you guys do for mastering? I'm having issues with my music being too quiet, and not just compared to the loudness war going on right now, but like annoyingly quiet. As well as a lot of mushiness, but I think thats just EQ'ing issues.
    Your software should have a "Normalize" feature to bring up the noise. I just uploaded another "song" to my YouTube channel. Its not much but its getting there.
    I've actually found that the normalize makes it worse, brings things down to the level of the quieter sections instead of bringing everything up.
    Whenever you use compression (or a Mastering effect that amounts to the same thing), to make it *sound* louder, for example, it will bring your level down, so you need a makeup volume. The more you compress, and the more times you compress (thanks to digital effects processors you can have as many compressors as your CPU can handle), the more makeup volume you need to apply.

    It's usually on the compressor somewhere, called "makeup". Sometimes it can be a significant amount.

    Last edited by Jimbo; 31-05-2016 at 03:04 PM.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  48. #48
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    ^ Last night I broke out my old Cakewalk Sonar Home studio 7 DAW and installed it on my Xp system. It works pretty good. Its got a cool step sequencer but there is a bit of latency between that and my M-Audio keyboard. But I'm impressed with the Sonar DAW. It comes with GM drums, distortion guitar, keys, a synth bass guitar and strings. I need a micro sd memory card and reinstall Sonar onto that so I can use it in my Lenova.

    I see a arranger keyboard in my future possibly when I'm on pension as I'll have a bit extra cash to spend on gear. I don't have any Korg products just yet. I almost bought a Korg M-1 keyboard Long & McQuade had as a refurbished product, when they were at their mothers music location in 2011 but I had no way of getting it home. At the moment I'm looking at getting the Korg iDS -10 for my Ntendo but I need the micro sd card first.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  49. #49
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    This just in: Long & McQuade's "Monster days" are back for June.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  50. #50
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    This just in: Long & McQuade's "Monster days" are back for June.
    I know the credit manager well
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  51. #51
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Monster Days for me is like Boxing day, I'm always broke at the wrong times.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  52. #52
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Monster Days for me is like Boxing day, I'm always broke at the wrong times.
    Hard to believe today (and it was hard to believe back then), but Warren Price used to put almost everything in Mother's Music on half price for Mother's Day.

    The only catch, of sorts, was your account had to be paid up in full.

    He got all of everybody's money. Then he had an empty store and everyone's money for NAMM.

    I had a place in the basement where a certain salesman would let me hide stuff for Mother's Day.

    I have no idea what happened to all of the stuff I bought.

    Those were the days in the music store pro shop era. They even had a pop machine in the back where customers could buy a beer for $1.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  53. #53
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    Great story. I don't go back that far with music production (wish I would have)

    Of the 2 accounts I had at the Mothers music location, both were paid in full before their due date. I've had no accounts since 2013, that was the last one.

    Have you ever been to NAMM? Must be quite the show. A lot of producers I follow go there, Saint Joe, Flux, Cuckoo, Kink. January is NAMM month. My YouTube subscriptions get very active at that time.

    I know 2 drummers and both of them Cory and Tim have had a lot of accounts at the old mothers location. When I was working at Xentel Tim and I would hurry down to Mothers (LM) almost every Saturday after work. Most likely your gear went to friends or EBay, but beer for a buck? WOW.

    I was in the 107th street location for my first time last summer. Drooling over the gear. Actually the guy that inspired me to get into music production (Bryon) had a room upstairs in that building. He was a one man band and had a lot of gear. I still have a couple of his punk rock cd's. I lost touch with him. He's a really nice guy. Big fellow, plays bass guitar.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  54. #54
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Instead of "paid up", I should have said "paid off".You couldn't have a balance on account.

    I was going to go to NAMM one year with Warren Price, but never did. He was a LOT of fun!

    They had the NAMM show in Chicago one year, home to Playboy Magazine and the Playboy Club, and that's where Warren got the idea for "Mother's Music". At the time Warren was running Gordon Price Music, and, I think, Capital Music Supplies. They'd just bought out the other large music (as in sheet music) store, and were growing, but musical instruments were an afterthought, and not pro level.

    Gordon Price was still around, but he was the kind of guy who would sneak an extra book in your bag, and say "don't tell Pam", his daughter, who ran the store. I used to have to sneak books back IN to Gordon Price Music.

    At NAMM, Warren was convinced he needed a store targeted to professional musicians. Keen Kraft (which became L&M) was just starting to do well.

    "Mother" was a cartoon character in Playboy Magazine, and Warren was a Playboy Club type if there ever was one. He had the artist who drew "Mother" draw a picture of her clutching a guitar (their first logo), and "Mother's Music" was born. I think the one on Jasper Ave was the first.

    I was fortunate to have been working at Mother's when keyboards really took over, and I got to set up the big new room, and take every keyboard home with me to learn.

    I even remember when polyphonic keyboards were invented.

    LOTS! of piano keyboard players used the Apple IIe back then. The invention of midi changed everything. It was a universal format, entirely non-proprietary, agreed upon by all the manufacturers. The fact it's still used heavily today, for all kinds of things, virtually unchanged, is a real testament to midi.

    So a lot of musicians were early heavy adopters of computers. Back then, it was mostly pretty cheesy, and the ones who were really great at sequencing, and programming their patches, were the lounge performers. We had some great ones. There's a fellow from the West Indies named Simon I've been running into for more than 30 years, and I just saw him a month ago.

    I'd bet he could tell you everything there is to know about that stuff

    After having gone into all the keyboards in depth, and seeing/hearing what was possible, my biggest disappointment was that virtually everybody stuck with the pre-programmed patches and mostly used it to emulate "real" instruments like horns, strings, or drums.

    Korg were the king of bass, and big fat tones. Roland had the crystal bell tones pretty good.

    Now we can sample, of course. Endless possibilities are available to us. But it's still a neat trick to get it from your head to a recording, or live. That hasn't changed at all.

    * beers were called "rockets"
    Last edited by Jimbo; 01-06-2016 at 06:35 PM.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  55. #55
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    9,285

    Default

    The above is a tough act to follow. I don't know if you know Tim Waterson. He has a YouTube page. He kind of runs around with Can Man Dan if your know that name.

    When did Long & McQuade have a store on Jasper Ave and where was it located?

    When I was at the downtown LM store, last summer one of the guys there said at one time they had laptops, customers could open accounts on. My soul for a i7 top line iMac.

    I'm surprised Axe music doesn't have the same kind of payment plan as LM. I bought FL Studio 10 producer edition from them in 2011, my m-audio station, Sonar Home studio 7. The expensive stuff I bought at LM. When they said I have a year to pay off an account I would have it paid off in 6 months. When I'm back to work steady in September (or earlier) I want to get some of the Volcas, the Roland TB-3 and a decent field recorder and a quality low cost mixer before then end of this year.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  56. #56
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The above is a tough act to follow. I don't know if you know Tim Waterson. He has a YouTube page. He kind of runs around with Can Man Dan if your know that name.

    When did Long & McQuade have a store on Jasper Ave and where was it located?

    When I was at the downtown LM store, last summer one of the guys there said at one time they had laptops, customers could open accounts on. My soul for a i7 top line iMac.

    I'm surprised Axe music doesn't have the same kind of payment plan as LM. I bought FL Studio 10 producer edition from them in 2011, my m-audio station, Sonar Home studio 7. The expensive stuff I bought at LM. When they said I have a year to pay off an account I would have it paid off in 6 months. When I'm back to work steady in September (or earlier) I want to get some of the Volcas, the Roland TB-3 and a decent field recorder and a quality low cost mixer before then end of this year.
    It was Mother's that was on Jasper Ave in the 70's, at about 107 st. Chez Pierre was upstairs at the time, and Jasper Ave was "the stroll" in the evenings.

    Keen Kraft was also on Jasper Ave at the time. On 109 st under the underpass.

    Keen Kraft were bought by L&M many years ago. Mother was sold to L&M after Warren passed away.

    I used to buy all my computers from Mother's.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •