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Thread: Modern day aggression

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Nothing has beaten my Metro for fun to drive factor, especially in BC. Makes you feel like an F1 driver without exceeding the speed limit. Unfortunately that got me into trouble when I took a reverse-banked corner a little too fast just after a rainshower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what occurred before the video started was someone was waiting for a car to back out from a parking spot. I'm sure that we've all been burnt a few times over the years that depending on which way they turn as they back out someone else "sneaks" in and takes the spot and it's quite apparent you were waiting.
    I was waiting for a spot at the U of A hospital a few years ago, and a dude nabbed it before I could turn into it (it was a T and I was on the top right, he came from the bottom). I pulled up, told the guy that I was waiting for the spot and he stole it from me. He apologized, got into his truck and backed out of the spot to give it to me. I wasn't expecting that at all, but my faith in humanity was restored, at least for that day.
    Equally annoying are the people who stop and wait when they see someone arrive at their vehicle with a cartfull of stuff, making it impossible for everyone behind them to continue looking for a spot until the stuff has been put away, the kids bucked in and the cart returned. If you don't see vehicle movement or at least reverse lights, keep driving.
    Well then you're supposed to jump out of your car, swear and berate the driver in front of you. This way you get to extend the wait to two or three extra minutes compared to the one minute wait otherwise.

    Anyone that's ever learned anything from their kids, has learned that it's always better to go into a tantrum, protest vociferously and jump up and down for seemingly endless stretches of time rather than spending the two secs just giving in. Same principle here.


    Metros sound like the old Datsun 510s.



    I wonder if this lady realized yet that all she got in the end was a glorified "station wagon" (now called a "crossover" SUV). Someday it will hit home as she drives through a Costco parking lot and the emotions well up inside her. Then somebody will grab 'her parking spot' and watch out!



    Why the Idea of Buying a Minivan Depresses Me



    The thought of driving a minivan depressed the hell out of me. I don’t consider myself someone who relies on cars to define myself (see: Ford Focus) but was I really at the minivan part of life? I was only 31! Two years before, I was in my 20s with no children. It was happening so fast.

    I did some soul-searching to determine why I was rejecting this outward symbol of a stage of life that I love. I decided that my minivan-induced depression was tied into having so many major life changes happening all in one summer. I was a couple of months away from having our second baby. We had just sold our Washington, D.C., condo and moved into a house in the suburbs because we needed the space. Buying a minivan would have put me over the edge. It feels very different to be a young couple with one baby living in the city and being a family of four hunkered down in the suburbs.



    http://www.momtastic.com/parenting/4...ice-was-clear/


    Last edited by KC; 07-06-2016 at 06:54 AM.

  2. #102
    highlander
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    I love my minivan. There's something slightly rebellious about actually embracing the un-cool.

    And I agree with everyone above - the most fun driving isn't in an actual high-powered sports car, it's in an underpowered small car with a manual that you have to drive right to get any performance out of. I miss my 98hp compact sedan.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I love my minivan. There's something slightly rebellious about actually embracing the un-cool.

    And I agree with everyone above - the most fun driving isn't in an actual high-powered sports car, it's in an underpowered small car with a manual that you have to drive right to get any performance out of. I miss my 98hp compact sedan.
    I wouldn't go that far...

    Different vehicles for different uses...

    Our family vehicle is a 2WD cross over, wife loves it and it's ok to drive. Very good on the highway and for picking up groceries and hauling the clan around town.

    My summer commuter is a 40 year old very small sports car that I have finally finished sorting out and mildly modifying. Tiny, basic (only 2 seats) under 4 ft tall and 2000lbs with 110 hp. Very quick, nimble and fun while getting 30+ mpg in town.

    Then there is my 30+ year old 1/2 ton. Good shape, 6 cylinder hauler that only gets used for yard and project work in the summer but doubles as my winter commuter and because of the little 6 gets good winter mileage and is warm and reliable.

    Finally my current project that is a few weeks from finished...mid 80s muscle car that will have extensive suspension work to boost it's stock (surprisingly impressive) handling to touring car level. Full load inc air and T Bar. Engine is in progress but when done will have in the area of 400ish hp/500 ft lb of torque in a 3500lb car for extremely quick performance, but with an overdrive system that will give it high 20s to low 30s on the highway while being able to accelerate with the new generation of muscle toys and handle the twists and turns with the Euro cars. It will be Dad's toy and won't get driven much.

    Beauty is I have a combination of what work when I need it, all in good to exceptional condition and because the overwhelming majority of the work has been done in my single car garage I've got less in our multiple vehicles than most have in a new sub compact!

    All paid for and because 2 are now "classics" insurance is cheap.

    Now if I can just find the right airplane to add to the fleet. lol

    My 2 bits

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Also may have those near useless fair weather paddle shifters. Lose the clutch and you lose half your snow and ice driving advantage.

    BMWs still out rank most other cars though for driving fun. However, I rented a 3 series diesel a coulee years ago and drove it around the country roads of Ireland. Not at all impressed.
    I have the paddles, but no clutch. North American 428xi are all 8-speed automatics. Still managed a 5.85s 0-100km/h run using Launch Control on Sunday (first time I've ever used it).
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  5. #105
    highlander
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    ^^ I didn't say best car. Just the most fun. and by fun, I mean as a car to drive, not to display or to cruise whyte ave, or to race.

    Your muscle car will be fun, in it's place, but there will be fewer places where you can actually have fun driving. It needs wide open roads.

    Stick shift econo-boxes can have that fun anywhere but a traffic jam.

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Also may have those near useless fair weather paddle shifters. Lose the clutch and you lose half your snow and ice driving advantage.

    BMWs still out rank most other cars though for driving fun. However, I rented a 3 series diesel a coulee years ago and drove it around the country roads of Ireland. Not at all impressed.
    I have the paddles, but no clutch. North American 428xi are all 8-speed automatics. Still managed a 5.85s 0-100km/h run using Launch Control on Sunday (first time I've ever used it).
    I always loved the clutch because it helped in regular winter driving in the city and on backcountry winter roads. Never took a car to the track, though that sounds fun.

    The only acceleration I cared about was for passing and getting up to speed when turning onto a highway (the later only because I had 80s something Malibu rental and pulled out onto the highway at Banff and nearly got run over by a semi because it took so, so, sooo long to just get up to 100kph. Totally meaningless in a Costco parking lot, except for getaway purposes.

    Passing speed is just one more reason why I miss ugly old Saab:

    The Saab 9000 is an executive car that was produced by the Swedish ...

    Aeros were equipped with ...eight-way Recaro-designed heated sports seats, a sport suspension, and 16-inch Super Aero wheels.[7] The Aero's in-gear acceleration was strongly emphasised; the Aero was capable of accelerating from 80 to 121 km/h (50 to 75 mph) faster than a Porsche Carrera 4 or a Ferrari Testarossa.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9000
    Last edited by KC; 07-06-2016 at 09:38 AM.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    ^^ I didn't say best car. Just the most fun. and by fun, I mean as a car to drive, not to display or to cruise whyte ave, or to race.

    Your muscle car will be fun, in it's place, but there will be fewer places where you can actually have fun driving. It needs wide open roads.

    Stick shift econo-boxes can have that fun anywhere but a traffic jam.
    We are not disagreeing...and I said different cars for different uses

    Lightweight low power cars are one kind of fun...add 50% more power like I did with my oldest's metro and its a whole new fun.

    All of my cars/trucks are drivers...I am won't own show queen, some guys are into it...but I want to drive them.

    I've driven extremely high powered/high handling cars in traffic...just as much fun, but different. Makes you feel like a shark in a minnow tank. But I find they feel best on winding fairly tight secondary highways making you work and use your skills...even at the speed limit you can push the corners hard if they are tight.

    As for pure clean fun...I'd to have my "70" Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV back. It was ultra light, small as a metro with the power of a small V-8, but was an all alloy 4. Total gas almost everywhere and at all speeds. Made you work to get it though.

    IMO

    T

  8. #108
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    Calgary mom beaten with hockey stick in bizarre road rage attack

    Two men smashed the windows of a*minivan with a hockey stick, then pulled the female driver out of the vehicle and beat her in front of her child in a bizarre road rage incident, Calgary police say.

    The attack occurred on Wednesday after 5 p.m. near the Mount Pleasant Sportsplex.

    "It's quite rare where when we see road rage manifest itself into something physical," said Insp. Darren Leggatt. "In my 27 year of policing, this is probably one of the more cowardice acts I've seen relative to a road rage incident."It's a deplorable, random act of violence for - at the end of the day a very petty reason."

    The 28-year-old mother, Karalie Red Old Man, told police a BMW had tried to pass her vehicle as she travelled on 4th Street N.W. south toward the Mount Pleasant neighbourhood. At one point, the BMW rear-ended her Dodge Caravan minivan and continued to aggressively tailgate her. The BMW followed her to the arena, where her vehicle was boxed in. After demanding she come out of her car to "fight them," she said the men broke windows on the minivan and assaulted her, at times using a hockey stick as a weapon. She was taken to hospital in an ambulance with injuries to her face, jaw, lips and teeth. Red Old Man had a child in her minivan at the time, who witnessed the beating.

    Police describe the two attackers as being in their early 20s, with dark brown or black hair and medium builds. One was wearing light grey or white clothing on his upper body. They are also looking for a silver, two-door BMW car with an Alberta licence plate. The car would likely have extensive damage to the front passenger side and possibly the front bumper, police said.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rage-1.3888089
    Last edited by Kitlope; 08-12-2016 at 08:11 PM.

  9. #109

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    ^Pretty deplorable. I'm thinking that that BMW may be stolen as who would ram a high end vehicle into another vehicle without thinking twice about doing it. Even a cheaper model vehicle a person would have to be a special kind of stupid to do that.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Pretty deplorable. I'm thinking that that BMW may be stolen as who would ram a high end vehicle into another vehicle without thinking twice about doing it. Even a cheaper model vehicle a person would have to be a special kind of stupid to do that.
    Maybe she slowed them down and screwed up their drug deal.

    Car photos here:
    Calgary woman beaten with hockey stick in vicious road rage attack by two men
    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...ad-rage-attack
    Last edited by KC; 09-12-2016 at 12:32 AM.

  11. #111
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    There maybe more to this story according to Reddit and the other news links... and it's looking like she was as much of an aggressor as the two men.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    There maybe more to this story according to Reddit and the other news links... and it's looking like she was as much of an aggressor as the two men.
    ...because she tried to defend herself from her minivan with a hockey stick?


    Clearly we men can suffer very emotional breakdowns:


    Calgary mother recounts road rage incident that escalated into arena parking lot assault


    Red Old Man says she was travelling southbound on 4 Street NW, near the 40 Avenue NW intersection, in her Dodge Caravan at around 5:20 p.m. when she changed lanes, unaware of a speeding vehicle in her blind spot.

    “When I did my shoulder check and my mirror check, it looked safe to do so, so I proceeded to drive into the left lane,” recalled Red Old Man. “When I was halfway between both lanes, I saw a silver vehicle speeding really fast towards me and trying to pass but I was already in the lane.”

    “They got mad and he started beeping his horn at me because he couldn’t pass.”

    Red Old Man says the driver followed close to her rear bumper for a short distance before the car entered the right lane. “He was driving right beside me trying to get into the left lane and trying to push me into oncoming traffic.”

    The driver of the car returned to the left lane behind Red Old Man’s minivan when the vehicles entered the playground zone near St. Joseph Elementary Junior High School. Red Old Man says she had slowed her minivan below the posted speed limit when she encountered a stopped vehicle waiting to make a left hand turn.

    “I ended up having to stop behind them and I kind of stopped quick and that’s when he rear-ended me.”

    The minivan driver continued ...

    http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-mo...ault-1.3195518
    Last edited by KC; 09-12-2016 at 04:20 PM.

  13. #113

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    I've found that people act aggressive and get mouthy and try to egg people on, up to the point where they're confronted face-to-face, then the tough guy smart-*** act goes away. I did something that I wasn't too proud of last winter, but it was the last straw at the time. I was driving through a parking lot along the front of a store, it was very icy so I wasn't going that fast. These two young guys (20's or 30's) who dress like redneck cabella shopping gangsters, or whatever that style is, were walking across the road about 30 feet in front of me and crossed well before I got there. Then at the last minute, one of them quickly stepped off the sidewalk like he was going to cross back over again right in front of me, and they were facing me so they saw me coming. I hit the brakes and swerved almost hitting a divider median with a tree, and I was in a brand new vehicle.

    My window was cracked open a bit and I heard them crack up laughing. I put my truck in park, opened the door and yelled "You think that's funny?" And he yelled back "F**k you ***hole!" and laughed. I got out, walked up to him and said again "You think that's funny??" and shoved him, he fell to the ground on his back. Then he and his buddy changed their tune and were like "What's your problem man? It was just a joke man etc...." Guess they didn't realize that not only was I not gonna take it, but I'm also 6'3" and easily had 80lbs on both of the little skinny pricks. I said "I don't think it's funny that I almost crashed my truck because you're a d**k, and if you try that again, I'll run you over. I also got you on my dashcam." The guy looked like he was gonna cry and never bothered to try to get up, the other guy was telling me to leave him alone. I got back in my truck and left.

    I got what he did on my dashcam but still don't need to go through the trouble of dealing with insurance, paying deductibles, truck being in the shop etc just because some punk thinks he can do what he wants. Like I said at the beginning, I'm not proud of what I did, but it was a bad bad day and the icy roads combined with people driving like idiots all day made this the last straw. If I had to do it all over again, honestly, I would probably do the same. I bet he won't pull something like that again, so I like to think that I've helped out others that he WOULD have done that to in the future until I confronted him.

    Like I said, people are aggressive and mouthy, until you confront them. I think some of these are internet tough guys who try to do the same in public...
    Last edited by alkeli; 10-12-2016 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Spelling, typos

  14. #114
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    Redneck rednecks are the worst rednecks.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    I've found that people act aggressive and get mouthy and try to egg people on, up to the point where they're confronted face-to-face, then the tough guy smart-*** act goes away. I did something that I wasn't too proud of last winter, but it was the last straw at the time. I was driving through a parking lot along the front of a store, it was very icy so I wasn't going that fast. These two young guys (20's or 30's) who dress like redneck cabella shopping gangsters, or whatever that style is, were walking across the road about 30 feet in front of me and crossed well before I got there. Then at the last minute, one of them quickly stepped off the sidewalk like he was going to cross back over again right in front of me, and they were facing me so they saw me coming. I hit the brakes and swerved almost hitting a divider median with a tree, and I was in a brand new vehicle.

    My window was cracked open a bit and I heard them crack up laughing. I put my truck in park, opened the door and yelled "You think that's funny?" And he yelled back "F**k you ***hole!" and laughed. I got out, walked up to him and said again "You think that's funny??" and shoved him, he fell to the ground on his back. Then he and his buddy changed their tune and were like "What's your problem man? It was just a joke man etc...." Guess they didn't realize that not only was I not gonna take it, but I'm also 6'3" and easily had 80lbs on both of the little skinny pricks. I said "I don't think it's funny that I almost crashed my truck because you're a d**k, and if you try that again, I'll run you over. I also got you on my dashcam." The guy looked like he was gonna cry and never bothered to try to get up, the other guy was telling me to leave him alone. I got back in my truck and left.

    I got what he did on my dashcam but still don't need to go through the trouble of dealing with insurance, paying deductibles, truck being in the shop etc just because some punk thinks he can do what he wants. Like I said at the beginning, I'm not proud of what I did, but it was a bad bad day and the icy roads combined with people driving like idiots all day made this the last straw. If I had to do it all over again, honestly, I would probably do the same. I bet he won't pull something like that again, so I like to think that I've helped out others that he WOULD have done that to in the future until I confronted him.

    Like I said, people are aggressive and mouthy, until you confront them. I think some of these are internet tough guys who try to do the same in public...
    If they thought that was a joke then they have a weird sense of humour. I consider what you did a public service. They know doubt would do it again and someone in a vehicle will skid on ice and do damage or hurt someone. Usually the dufusses that do this are teenage male school kids or the NAIT brigade. They don't look left or right they just step off the curb at the last minute and anyone driving by has to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting them. Like I say, it's predominately guys of a certain age who do this. One has to shake ones head as these guys are the brains? of the future.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  16. #116
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    well, I for one applaud you Alkeli. Too many people are complete arseholes and sometimes these little little life lessons are what's needed to set them straight, especially for the special snowflake generation. I usually know within 10 blocks of driving away from my place what kind of idiots will be about, the bad days I make it quick and return home.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    If they thought that was a joke then they have a weird sense of humour. I consider what you did a public service. They know doubt would do it again and someone in a vehicle will skid on ice and do damage or hurt someone. Usually the dufusses that do this are teenage male school kids or the NAIT brigade. They don't look left or right they just step off the curb at the last minute and anyone driving by has to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting them. Like I say, it's predominately guys of a certain age who do this. One has to shake ones head as these guys are the brains? of the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    well, I for one applaud you Alkeli. Too many people are complete arseholes and sometimes these little little life lessons are what's needed to set them straight, especially for the special snowflake generation. I usually know within 10 blocks of driving away from my place what kind of idiots will be about, the bad days I make it quick and return home.
    Thanks guys. These guys weren't the ones that don't look to see if traffic was coming. They clearly saw me coming, they were looking right at me, and did this on purpose. That's why I blew my lid. The ones who don't look left or right also tick me off though.

  18. #118
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    alkeli, that reminds me of the time some a**hole decided he'd run a red light in the middle of nowhere and almost ran me over. I had just left kung fu, and when I saw they turned in half a block away, I followed them into the video store (haha, remember those?!) they went into. I walked up to the guy, reemed him out in front of everyone (I was towering over him), took down his plate and called an officer I knew at the police station I was volunteering at. He received a call at 8am the next morning from the officer, and he said "Oh man, I thought that guy was going to rip my head off! I just did it because I thought it was funny... I realize it wasn't funny at all." I remember walking out of the store wishing I had punched him into one of the racks of movies.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  19. #119
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    Figure this might be a suitable thread for this short youtube video. I spend many hours on the Roadcam subreddit watching peoples ****** driving... and I seriously get a kick out of this guy because he's oblivious to the fact he was cutting through the empty parking lot and the lady in the van had 100% right of way. Just makes me laugh... the Jersey accent comes across as all Pacino like. Priceless. And what a douche.

    NSFW.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nO1VbbFVZ4

  20. #120
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    Man breaks woman's arms with crowbar in vicious road-rage attack

    A 34-year-old woman had both arms broken with a crowbar Tuesday morning in what police say was a vicious road-rage incident.

    The woman was driving north on 87th Street in the King Edward Park neighbourhood in south Edmonton at around 6:30 a.m.

    She was trying to turn onto 77th Avenue when she approached a silver Chevrolet Aveo stopped on the road, police say.

    The woman honked her horn then passed the stopped car.

    The car followed the woman to a nearby home, where she got out of her vehicle to go inside.

    The man ran up to the woman and smashed her arms with a crowbar. She was taken to hospital, where she underwent surgery for two broken arms.

    Her attacker is described as Caucasian, about 30 years old, six foot one, medium build, with brown hair and blue eyes. He was wearing a grey toque, blue jeans, and a dark jacket.

    Police say they hope the public will help identify the man shown in dash-camera images.

    Investigators also want to speak with two witnesses who were walking across the street from where the attack happened, a female with a long white coat and a male walking two dark-coloured dogs.

    The man's car is described as a mid-2000s, silver, four-door Chevrolet Aveo, with a seven-digit Alberta licence plate that starts with the letter "B."

    The car has a small fin or spoiler on the rear hatch and steel winter-wheel rims.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...tack-1.4014435


    I can't say it enough, a dash cam is a absolute must these days. Not only for the fraudulent liars and to prove who had right of way, but for your safety (or conviction, however you want to put it) from road ragers.

  21. #121

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    Woman's arms broken with crowbar in road rage attack

    A woman has two broken arms after a road rage attack with a crowbar in south Edmonton early Tuesday morning.
    Police are searching for a man and a silver Chevrolet Aveo. They believe the vehicle, shown in images taken from a dashboard camera, was involved in what they describe as a “vicious” beating.
    Southwest division police officers were called to the area of 76 Avenue and 87 Street NW around 6:30 a.m. Tuesday after a 34-year-old woman said she was attacked by a man with a crowbar.
    It started when she was driving north on 87 Street near a Chevrolet Aveo that was stopped in the eastbound lane.

    The woman honked her horn as she turned onto 77 Avenue and passed the vehicle before driving to a nearby residence.

    When she got out of her vehicle, a man ran up to her and hit her on both arms with the crowbar, police said.
    Paramedics took her to hospital where she had surgery for two broken arms.
    Police are searching for a 30-year-old white man, who is six-foot-one, medium build with brown hair and blue eyes. They say he was wearing a grey toque, blue jeans and a dark jacket.
    He was driving a mid-2000s silver four-door Chevrolet Aveo with a seven-digit Alberta licence plate that starts with the letter B. It also has a small fin or spoiler on the rear hatch and steel rims on the tires, police said.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/crim...ad-rage-attack

    Article does not really say the reason for the road rage except she honked her horn for some reason.
    Anyway, this guy must be one strung out pr*ck to do that kind of damage. I'm sure the cops will get him pretty fast though once they start looking into their data base. He looks spooked by the truck behind him, seems to be just about turned around looking back from the drivers seat.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  22. #122

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    The most I could pull out is a snow brush. Who the hell carries a crowbar around with them? I have tons of tools including multiple crowbars, prybars, etc and if I flipped out I'd have to first drive home to get them so unless the guy was a labourer, it sounds like he has some severe problems that he's already fully aware of.


    As for honking. I never honk. Though I've always wanted to find a friendly sounding vehicle horn for more friendly sounding honks. (I tend to despise those that lay on their horn over any little thing.)
    Last edited by KC; 07-03-2017 at 06:54 PM.

  23. #123

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    A crowbar sounds too old-timey to be "modern."
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  24. #124
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    May have been a tire iron... but whatever. Does that work for you Spudly? Just brutal. When I started driving in the early 90's I don't recall this kind of aggression as common as it is today. Hence the thread title.

    KC, I honk. Oh.. do I honk. Especially after getting my car almost written off on Saturday because some dummy just needed to save 3 seconds of time.

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    May have been a tire iron... but whatever. Does that work for you Spudly? Just brutal. When I started driving in the early 90's I don't recall this kind of aggression as common as it is today. Hence the thread title.

    KC, I honk. Oh.. do I honk. Especially after getting my car almost written off on Saturday because some dummy just needed to save 3 seconds of time.
    Drugs are worse today. I can't imagine the perpetrator in this instance was completely sober, or of a sober mind. I would virtually guarantee its some male hopelessly ****** up on something. Not excusing him on that basis. The guy should spend the rest of his life in jail where free society is safe from his aggression.

    I can't fathom the action that this person did and reconcile it with a sane mind. I just can't, or don't want to.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    May have been a tire iron... but whatever. Does that work for you Spudly? Just brutal. When I started driving in the early 90's I don't recall this kind of aggression as common as it is today. Hence the thread title.

    KC, I honk. Oh.. do I honk. Especially after getting my car almost written off on Saturday because some dummy just needed to save 3 seconds of time.
    Interesting that a dash cam was available to catch some images. I've thought about buying one but can't justify the cost. It would likely just be a novelty- but cameras can sure pay off at times.
    Last edited by KC; 08-03-2017 at 08:51 AM.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post

    As for honking. I never honk. Though I've always wanted to find a friendly sounding vehicle horn for more friendly sounding honks. (I tend to despise those that lay on their horn over any little thing.)



    Top_Dawg would love to have a dixie horn like the General Lee on Dukes of Hazard.

  28. #128

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    I always find it funny when people claim today's violence is worse. I call BS. It's always been bad, sometimes it was more hidden, but we humans fought. Go have a look at clockwork orange, it's as brutal as anything today, and that was typical 1970s - look at other movies from the time, the Dirty Harry movies, Bronson movies, etc. NYC wasn't a hip stylish place to get ahead like today, it was a violent cespit of constant muggings and sexual assualts, and that was typical US downtowns (it helped drove the white flight with help of developers selling a safe surburban oasis).

    There were always scuffles in car parks, this is nothing new, the only change is everyone has a video recorder (cell phone). From 1950, motomania




    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAZ_xu0DCg
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-03-2017 at 08:07 AM.

  29. #129

  30. #130

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    ^that never happened when you were growing up? I remember kids pulling knifes in playgrounds.

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Interesting that such articles now state that such videos were viewed "X" times. I'm not sure how that is pertinent but I supposedly it's interesting trivia. (Sort of like an old paper newspaper reporting the next day how many papers they sold related to stories in that day's news.)

  32. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^that never happened when you were growing up? I remember kids pulling knifes in playgrounds.
    I grew up in Edmonton and boys, but never girls would physically scrap and get into very brief fist fights though. Never any knives. I didn't encounter any blood-spilling fights until my post-secondary years and that was in places like outside RATT or in other bars at at night.

  33. #133
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    A former owner of The Gas Pump used to regale Top_Dawg with stories of what happened in the women's washroom the previous Friday and Saturday nights.

    Security would often have to run in there and break up fights between some smelly warthogs.

    For a while it seemed like every week some ho-nasty would peel the lid off a toilet tank and start beating another swamp donkey with it.

    They eventually had to secure the lids in place with steel strapping.



    Classic.
    Last edited by Top_Dawg; 08-03-2017 at 09:18 AM.

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Yeah and the ESB spokesman trots out the regular prepared statement and no doubt forgot about it 2 seconds after he said it. Nothing will change once the reporter took off.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg
    They eventually had to secure the lids in place with steel strapping.


    Ah yes, secured and sandpapered toilet tank lids. The sign of a truly classy establishment. Wouldn't want any of the prestigious clientele beating each other with the lids, or doing lines off them. Probably in reverse order.

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^that never happened when you were growing up? I remember kids pulling knifes in playgrounds.
    I grew up in Edmonton and boys, but never girls would physically scrap and get into very brief fist fights though. Never any knives. I didn't encounter any blood-spilling fights until my post-secondary years and that was in places like outside RATT or in other bars at at night.
    Grew up in poor suburban neighborhood in New Zealand - 1980's for high school. A significant portion of my year were already gang affiliates, out of about 200 only about 6 of us went on to university. When I watch American movies from time, looks much the same, but they had guns as well. Didn't know if was different in Edmonton, maybe the small town thing, albeit my city was hardly large. And yeah, I saw girls fighting all the time, I think its a lie that girls / women are less violent, if anything, I think more emotional and more so. They just do less damage, and have more support systems / more likely to be believed, so don't end up in prison as much.
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-03-2017 at 03:54 PM.

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^that never happened when you were growing up? I remember kids pulling knifes in playgrounds.
    I grew up in Edmonton and boys, but never girls would physically scrap and get into very brief fist fights though. Never any knives. I didn't encounter any blood-spilling fights until my post-secondary years and that was in places like outside RATT or in other bars at at night.
    Grew up in poor suburban neighborhood in New Zealand - 1980's for high school. A significant portion of my year were already gang affiliates, out of about 200 only about 6 of us went on to university. When I watch American movies from time, looks much the same, but they had guns as well. Didn't know if was different in Edmonton, maybe the small town thing, albeit my city was hardly large. And yeah, I saw girls fighting all the time, I think its a lie that girls / women are less violent, if anything, I think more emotional and more so. They just do less damage, and have more support systems / more likely to be believed, so don't end up in prison as much.
    Lived in one of the worst areas of Edmonton growing up and never saw a knife fight. Fist fights? Every freaking day. If some lunatic brought a weapon and tried to use that in a fight a dozen people would jump that person and take it away and probably pound the **** out of them and would certainly be yelling what the **** is wrong with them.

    The fighting code here was (other than the above dealing with lunatic situation);

    1)Fighting is one on one only. Not packs of ravaging animals stabbing.

    2) No weapons other than fists. That means no rocks, no bars, no chains, knives, nothing. Not even tinfoil.

    3)If a person falls from a punch fight is over. if a person starts covering after a punch and in obvious defensive mode fight is over.

    4) Anybody that feigns getting hurt and then tries to resume fighting is put down. Fight is over. You lost.

    5)Fight is presided over naturally by everybody around. People wanted to see a clean fight, not bs. Get the fight done and move on. Even amicably.

    6)Anybody that says "I'll get my big brother after you, or I'll get a gang of guys to jump you is considered the biggest wanker and social pariah in school and is virtually guaranteed to get pounded every week.

    6a) Tell your parents and see 6 above.

    7)Anybody grabbing a knife or a weapon would be presumed to be as stated a psychopathic lunatic. Basically everybody would probably report that fool at first opportunity.

    That's just the way it was back in the 60's, 70's here. I have heard of some more violent times post war, in the 50's.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #138

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    Replacement

    I like and agree with what you posted as that is pretty much how I saw things happen in the 60s/70s.

    But this part below nails the problem:

    Lived in one of the worst areas of Edmonton growing up and never saw a knife fight. Fist fights? Every freaking day. If some lunatic brought a weapon and tried to use that in a fight a dozen people would jump that person and take it away and probably pound the **** out of them and would certainly be yelling what the **** is wrong with them.


    Back then if you got out of line your peers (and often strangers) would shut you down ... hard. That doesn't happen today ... on other threads folks have been adamant about not getting involved when seeing a problem.

    Take this road rage incident from yesterday, the police have described several witnesses and asked them to come forward. Come forward! The woman being assaulted was screaming and you were there and didn't do so much as yell! You didn't come over to see if she was ok? Didn't wait for the police?

    There is the problem, we have created a community that cares not for their fellow man and would rather not be inconvenienced.

    Pretty sorry society we've created isn't it?

    IMO

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Replacement

    I like and agree with what you posted as that is pretty much how I saw things happen in the 60s/70s.

    But this part below nails the problem:

    Lived in one of the worst areas of Edmonton growing up and never saw a knife fight. Fist fights? Every freaking day. If some lunatic brought a weapon and tried to use that in a fight a dozen people would jump that person and take it away and probably pound the **** out of them and would certainly be yelling what the **** is wrong with them.


    Back then if you got out of line your peers (and often strangers) would shut you down ... hard. That doesn't happen today ... on other threads folks have been adamant about not getting involved when seeing a problem.

    Take this road rage incident from yesterday, the police have described several witnesses and asked them to come forward. Come forward! The woman being assaulted was screaming and you were there and didn't do so much as yell! You didn't come over to see if she was ok? Didn't wait for the police?

    There is the problem, we have created a community that cares not for their fellow man and would rather not be inconvenienced.

    Pretty sorry society we've created isn't it?

    IMO

    Agreed, even friends would shut you down hard if you were out of line, and you would be momentarily confused, but usually quickly see they were right. There was a social conforming milieu, there were rules, standards, even if unwritten, they were known. But theres significantly less present social contract, its becoming more and more disengaged. Road rage an example of that, 7,500 people a year doing a hit and run in Edmonton an example of that (leaving the scene of an accident or fender bender, number includes parking lot damages)

    As I've stated before the reason there is less social contract, mores, values, is we live in a time of anomie of those values due to various changes in our society and what we adhere to.

    But other things are occurring too. Values are not only changing, they are being altered. If I stated such a thing that it would be impossible for me to ignore a women being attacked, or a child, (it is impossible for me to ignore) I'll probably be met with some kind of response suggesting I'm patriarchal, sexist, etc. In fact that nature of exchange has happened here more times than I would want to remember.

    Another thing that is extremely unfortunate is good Samaritan targeting. Whereby the Samaritan is drawn in so that they could be mugged, attacked, robbed, even killed, with that being the intent. Staged events itargeting good Samaritans is, tragically, a warped idea that has been increasing.

    Even without that first responders are often at risk. Social workers, police, Emergency workers all know this intimately. Become involved and respond and aggression is quite common. albeit unexpected. People in the middle of a dispute, especially domestic, have lost in those moments a sense of being rationale. In that instance the good Samaritan that means to be helpful is perceived as interfering and worse.
    Last edited by Replacement; 08-03-2017 at 05:06 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  40. #140

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    ^Well the police are saying tips are pouring in so there are people out there trying to help. As for witnesses. Sometimes people don't always see what people think they should have seen. If two people are walking together on the other side of the road/lane and they are in deep conversation they could be oblivious of what happened. If they did see, well that's awful they did not intervene, by helping the victim or calling the police.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/crim...ictims-vehicle
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  41. #141

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    One of the difficult things these days is how often kids/youth scream as if they are being attacked by wild animals or something. I know I sound like old Dennis the Menace the neighbor saying that but countless times I've heard bloodthirsty cries outside only to go outside and find that its kids playing and being dramatic. Any school recess these days (we have 3 schools within 2 blocks and you can hear all of them) sound as if two dozen people are running around with chainsaws during recess or after school. Screaming and yelling and screeching. Constant.
    Thing is you stop being able to detect a real emergency due to screams occurring as a rule in kid/youth world.

    This reminds me of the play area they used to have at MWTC. Used to sound like a zoo, people would comment on that constantly. That it sounded like screeching jackals and cockatoos being attacked by baboons. I think not even parents miss that its been removed.
    Last edited by Replacement; 08-03-2017 at 05:37 PM.
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  42. #142
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    Personally, I think it's time to bring back the front license plate in this province. Almost 25 years has gone by and judging by driving trends, the experiment has failed.

    Easier (front) identification for all vehicles would be a good thing considering all the impatience, distraction & aggression on our roads. I know its not going to make a dent in the stupidity however at least it should make it easier to ID them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Personally, I think it's time to bring back the front license plate in this province. Almost 25 years has gone by and judging by driving trends, the experiment has failed.

    Easier (front) identification for all vehicles would be a good thing considering all the impatience, distraction & aggression on our roads. I know its not going to make a dent in the stupidity however at least it should make it easier to ID them.
    Send letters to Alberta Transportation, SolGen/Justice, Service Alberta, etc, if you want to see it done. If you get a small army on your side, they will eventually take notice.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    There is the problem, we have created a community that cares not for their fellow man and would rather not be inconvenienced.

    Pretty sorry society we've created isn't it?


    Care to offer any proof whatsoever that the Bystander Effect has worsened in our society? It's a well understood and studied phenomenon, so that shouldn't be too hard if there's any validity to your claim.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect



  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    I always find it funny when people claim today's violence is worse. I call BS. It's always been bad, sometimes it was more hidden, but we humans fought. Go have a look at clockwork orange, it's as brutal as anything today, and that was typical 1970s - look at other movies from the time, the Dirty Harry movies, Bronson movies, etc. NYC wasn't a hip stylish place to get ahead like today, it was a violent cespit of constant muggings and sexual assualts, and that was typical US downtowns (it helped drove the white flight with help of developers selling a safe surburban oasis).

    There were always scuffles in car parks, this is nothing new, the only change is everyone has a video recorder (cell phone). From 1950, motomania




    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAZ_xu0DCg
    is there anything in the world that you dislike or don't agree with or find unpleasant that isn't somehow the fault of those *&^% developers?
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  46. #146

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    Police charge man with attempted murder in violent road rage attack.


    Edmonton police arrested a man in connection to Tuesday’s violent road rage attack that left a woman in hospital with two broken arms.
    Jared Matthew Eliasson, 28, has been charged with attempt to commit murder, possession of an offensive weapon dangerous to the public and aggravated assault.
    Eliasson was arrested on Wednesday, police said in a release.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ad-rage-attack
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Police charge man with attempted murder in violent road rage attack.


    Edmonton police arrested a man in connection to Tuesday’s violent road rage attack that left a woman in hospital with two broken arms.
    Jared Matthew Eliasson, 28, has been charged with attempt to commit murder, possession of an offensive weapon dangerous to the public and aggravated assault.
    Eliasson was arrested on Wednesday, police said in a release.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ad-rage-attack
    Would this have happened so quickly, or even at all, without the dashcam video?

  48. #148

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    ^nope, public violence should go down as people realize there is nowhere in public today where you aren't likely under surveillance, or can very quickly be under surveillance (as we all have surveillance tools in our pockets).

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The fighting code here was (other than the above dealing with lunatic situation);
    I thought those sort of childish codes died in the 70's, but I guess not. Where I grew up, you just tried to hurt the other person as much as you could, I was taught if someone attacks you, you can do whatever you need to in self defense. And yeah, your mates would help, whether you outnumber or were outnumbered. I don't think its that different anywhere in the world today. I saw a guy break a glass on a table and use as a knife against a girl in Edmonton. Dance hall shootings aren't uncommon all over Canada. Guess I didn't grow up in the same generation as you, that code stuff died. I'm not a fan of codes because they aren't enforceable, the only one that has enforcement is the law. The nice thing is with more surveillance hopefully public spaces will get a bit safer in time.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Police charge man with attempted murder in violent road rage attack.


    Edmonton police arrested a man in connection to Tuesday’s violent road rage attack that left a woman in hospital with two broken arms.
    Jared Matthew Eliasson, 28, has been charged with attempt to commit murder, possession of an offensive weapon dangerous to the public and aggravated assault.
    Eliasson was arrested on Wednesday, police said in a release.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ad-rage-attack
    Would this have happened so quickly, or even at all, without the dashcam video?
    perhaps not so quickly but i would hope that the public cooperation and tips and the outrage that brought out those things would have been just as effective even if not as quick.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  51. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    perhaps not so quickly but i would hope that the public cooperation and tips and the outrage that brought out those things would have been just as effective even if not as quick.
    That hasn't' been the experience of police investigating dance hall shootings and similar in Edmonton, where more than 100 people are absolutely silent. A lot of the key drug dealers are way too powerful for people to speak up against them. But yeah, maybe with a road rage. Probably not though, and I doubt police would have pushed it so hard without that.

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The fighting code here was (other than the above dealing with lunatic situation);
    I thought those sort of childish codes died in the 70's, but I guess not. Where I grew up, you just tried to hurt the other person as much as you could, I was taught if someone attacks you, you can do whatever you need to in self defense. And yeah, your mates would help, whether you outnumber or were outnumbered. I don't think its that different anywhere in the world today. I saw a guy break a glass on a table and use as a knife against a girl in Edmonton. Dance hall shootings aren't uncommon all over Canada. Guess I didn't grow up in the same generation as you, that code stuff died. I'm not a fan of codes because they aren't enforceable, the only one that has enforcement is the law. The nice thing is with more surveillance hopefully public spaces will get a bit safer in time.
    I have a hard time with you describing knife attacks and pack behavior as being a better way of sorting out affairs then a one on one fight which you describe as "childish"

    Apparently for you its a sign of development to cowardly attack someone with a weapon or have a gang jump them. Where do you come up with such outlandish thought? Is it self taught, inate, or are you spending a life working on such warped perspective.

    The whole notion of getting someone before they get you is REPREHENSIBLE and borne of US style gun and weapon violence and where the likelihood of getting murdered is 10X as high. Apparently you reside in the wrong country. People aren't safer if they pull out a weapon or everybody has that as a mental directive. That's obviously more dangerous as are attitudes like you just espoused. Which you probably don't even realize. you probably don't realize either that countless murder and assault investigations have revealed that the defendant perceived being attacked even when witnessess thought the defendant was the aggressor. Its primary for people, especially people that are easily afraid, and panic, to perceive danger, risk, aggression, and be first to respond in what they allege is self defense. Its quite often the exact opposite and with the twitchy weapons wielding type being the actual aggressor of violence. That's why the code existed, to try to prevent worse harm. With an accompanying acknowledgement that the people using weapons are the biggest cowards around and are worthy only of disgust.


    btw I specifically described that as a code of the 60's and 70's here as it was what I was intimately aware of growing up.

    ps the best method in disputes is de-escalation and/or avoiding getting wrapped up in escalations, and obvious wrong places in the first place. When weaponry is prerequisite to defending one self its a a very sad day for *civilization*.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-03-2017 at 05:54 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Police charge man with attempted murder in violent road rage attack.


    Edmonton police arrested a man in connection to Tuesday’s violent road rage attack that left a woman in hospital with two broken arms.
    Jared Matthew Eliasson, 28, has been charged with attempt to commit murder, possession of an offensive weapon dangerous to the public and aggravated assault.
    Eliasson was arrested on Wednesday, police said in a release.


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ad-rage-attack
    I realize these are difficult matters for EPS and that cause a lot of pause for thought but Christa Pennie, a normally thoughtful EPS Sergeant, and spokesperson for this arrest refers to the individual as a Gentleman. I realize that's a common term in this age as if to convey respect to all involved but it shouldn't be in use regardless of situation. This is no gentleman, and doesn't deserve that term, doesn't deserve to even be called a man. Also, no reason for the EPS answer to "is this person known to the police to be "no, not really". They were aware of this individual and apparently had prior dealings with this individual. Why give him that much benefit of doubt. This is the most disgusting and deplorable act of the year, save for any of the 8 homicides that have occurred in the city this year.

    Jared, please take that crowbar and bash your nuts in to at least do society a Darwinian favor.

    I'll resist stating anything else.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-03-2017 at 05:49 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  54. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    There is the problem, we have created a community that cares not for their fellow man and would rather not be inconvenienced.

    Pretty sorry society we've created isn't it?


    Care to offer any proof whatsoever that the Bystander Effect has worsened in our society? It's a well understood and studied phenomenon, so that shouldn't be too hard if there's any validity to your claim.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect



    Well Marcel

    You asked a good question and I spent some hours on and off through the day to discover that there are no academic or scholarly articles on the incidence of the bystander effect at any particular point of time. That I could find at least after many searches using varied wording.

    You can certainly glean "what it is", "the causes", "percentage of crowd likely to not act" and many physiological papers and documentation covering those topics. Interestingly it appears it is a fairly recent piece of physiological interest as the first papers only appear in 1968 with additional data not appearing till the late 1970s and only becoming of increased interest since the 1990s.

    As far as rates of incidence, appears it has not been studied by my many searches, not even a reference to a study. Which to me indicates a) Lack of hard data on incidence or b) No one wants to deal with it.

    That said the time was not wasted as it led to quite a series on increasing social and communal apathy (as opposed to political apathy which flood the topic), how that apathy has been a big piece of the rise in bullying on and off line, lack of social engagement and a series of other negative effects. far too many links to provide so I'll let you research that on your own.

    That said it certainly appears that the "bystander effect", "social and community apathy" are simply symptomatic of much larger problems ... including road rage, bullying and others.

    Did find it interesting that there are no academic or scholarly article references to "bystander effect" and "social apathy" prior to the 1968 study/paper of the 1964 murder of Kitty Genovese and subsequent studies later that year.

    Certainly an interesting topic to read on during a cold day ... that said my interpretation of the days readings seem to support my original statement.

    In my opinion

    Seeing as it is a topic that seems in Replacement's bailiwick maybe Replacement can jump in with additional information.
    Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 09-03-2017 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Fixed mixed Font

  55. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    There is the problem, we have created a community that cares not for their fellow man and would rather not be inconvenienced.

    Pretty sorry society we've created isn't it?


    Care to offer any proof whatsoever that the Bystander Effect has worsened in our society? It's a well understood and studied phenomenon, so that shouldn't be too hard if there's any validity to your claim.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect



    Well Marcel

    You asked a good question and I spent some hours on and off through the day to discover that there are no academic or scholarly articles on the incidence of the bystander effect at any particular point of time. That I could find at least after many searches using varied wording.

    You can certainly glean "what it is", "the causes", "percentage of crowd likely to not act" and many physiological papers and documentation covering those topics. Interestingly it appears it is a fairly recent piece of physiological interest as the first papers only appear in 1968 with additional data not appearing till the late 1970s and only becoming of increased interest since the 1990s.

    As far as rates of incidence, appears it has not been studied by my many searches, not even a reference to a study. Which to me indicates a) Lack of hard data on incidence or b) No one wants to deal with it.

    That said the time was not wasted as it led to quite a series on increasing social and communal apathy (as opposed to political apathy which flood the topic), how that apathy has been a big piece of the rise in bullying on and off line, lack of social engagement and a series of other negative effects. far too many links to provide so I'll let you research that on your own.

    That said it certainly appears that the "bystander effect", "social and community apathy" are simply symptomatic of much larger problems ... including road rage, bullying and others.

    Did find it interesting that there are no academic or scholarly article references to "bystander effect" and "social apathy" prior to the 1968 study/paper of the 1964 murder of Kitty Genovese and subsequent studies later that year.

    Certainly an interesting topic to read on during a cold day ... that said my interpretation of the days readings seem to support my original statement.

    In my opinion

    Seeing as it is a topic that seems in Replacement's bailiwick maybe Replacement can jump in with additional information.
    This indeed is my ballpark. Bystander effect changes through time is not consistently substantiated in the literature. As difficult as it is to capture that in studies, or experiments. My sense is there would be reduction in good Samaritan or participant bystander action and for some of the reasons I mentioned. But that's more tied into an overview of present day Canada being more a society in flux and with less established mores, values, and the lack of connection therein. That part is substantiated. Its called cultural anomie. Emile Durkheim first posited the effects of Anomie over a century ago but it continues to have continued, if not increased relevance. The world effects that Durkheim was observing have been amplified over the last century. So anomie arguably applies more now.

    Connected with this is people in present day see themselves very much as free agents in society and whereby the connection and responsibility to the world is diminishing. This part is outside of my specific area but theres even a lot of studies on how increased disconnection from ethical constraints in society allow Wall street and big business to function as it currently does. In other words with much more psychopathic actions, behavior evidenced in big business and brokerage.

    The term I use often, and its common vernacular, is that the "social contract" is eroding. Its what ties us together, bonds us, bonds us with responsibility to society, others. Its all eroding. The premise, an easy enough one to make from that is that bystander effect would possibly be diminished. I mean if connection and altruism in general is diminished one would have to imagine that bystander action is curtailed.

    The latter imo

    Heres an addendum to my post. One other reason it would be hard to find a lot of substantiating data on the subject is that it falls more within the realm of Sociology or Social Psychology and especially with the latter this making up a constantly evolving and not necessarily fixed area of study. Social Psychologists essentially find endless things to study and its a bit of a chaotic discipline. Its perhaps the least empirical discipline in the Social Sciences albeit some people would argue that point. Its also been a home to some famous supposed charlatans whose work has been highly criticized since, for instance, Philip Zimbardo and his infamous Stanford experiments that were meant to invoke Stanley Milgrams experimental findings. However Zimbardo's experiments have been highly criticized since as confirmation bias as subjects report being coached, even encouraged to go along with what Zimbardo sought to find. Zimbardo was also the worst definition of pop psychologist. Somebody in it basically to sell books, self promotion, get attention, and he seemingly cared more about his fame then his work. Unfortunately theres been an amount of Social Psychologists like that.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-03-2017 at 09:19 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  56. #156

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    Thanks for the input Replacement

    After reading your response last night I spent some time reading on "cultural anomie", while subject to interpretation it definitely is interesting stuff and certainly explains much about today's society.

    Some of the articles I read demonstrated not only the ties to the "bystander effect" but also to the fall of community, service organizations, loyalty and patriotism and the rise of targeted advocacy, SJWs and the increase in charitable donations while people actually do less in terms of charitable/volunteer work. In a sense government & NGOs replacing community...sad.

    In the case of the rising instances of road rage and similar acts it seems to somewhat explain the "feeling" of "I can do what I want and no one will stop me"

    Seems that "social contract" is becoming very degraded.

    IMO

  57. #157

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    You're welcome Thomas. Emile Durkheim's look at anomie hit me the first time I studied it. Realizing immediately it has so much application. Explains so much. Its rare that theorists in his discipline nail it as well as he did. Moreso that his theories have stood the test of time and are more relevant even today.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  58. #158

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    Interesting:


    Why men fight, rape and kill: Author explores the psychology of male violence - Home | As It Happens | CBC Radio

    March 2, 2018

    “For years, Daemon Fairless would swell with pride whenever he told the story about the time he headbutted a man in the face on the subway.

    It was New Year's Eve in Toronto, and the man was drunk, belligerent and making a scene, Fairless said.

    "The long and short of it is I got up, told him to sit down and after he threatened my wife, I smashed his nose with my forehead," he said.

    "The police came, he was arrested and I was the quote-unquote good guy in that situation."

    But the truth, Fairless said, is much more complicated. ...

    Distorted thinking

    ...

    “There's this huge ability for guys to justify the violence they're doing," he said.

    "We hear the women with the Me Too movement right now, talking over and over about there's all these ways that guys have of shutting down and diminishing, rationalizing not just sexual violence, but you know, sexual harassment."”



    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/...ence-1.4556164


    Last edited by KC; 04-03-2018 at 11:35 AM.

  59. #159

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    This topic is one that the entire city should be discussing. Yes we have technologies that captures and uploads everything, but violence has increased in intensity. Look at the food we consume now; the ever increasing lethal drugs; over consumption of alchohol; the violent video games we allow kids to play; the influence of horrible tv/movie programmings; the fame one garners for their deviant acts, and those are just some examples. I remembered when the video game 'Grand Theft Auto' came out, i saw little kids playing it, and I knew our society was going to be in trouble. Twenty years later, we became the product of the lists I mentioned above; we have become sensitized to violence, rage, theft, ignorance, and more. Even a few of our forum members illustrate the DNA to what I'm articulating and these members are closing in on retirement. Yes, violence and aggression has increased in both intensity and frequency; we live in very ominous times and I truly loathe it!

  60. #160
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    There's basically no reliable evidence that shows violence in video games (or movies/TV for that matter) is causally linked to violence in real life. Similarly, rock n'roll, jazz music and dancing didn't lead to the downfall of society.

  61. #161
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    ^Yup, I grew up watching cowboys and indians movies and had a popgun that shot a cork on a string, and I've never hurt a fly.

    And, yeh, I've played the 'devil's music' since I was a kid.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  62. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    There's basically no reliable evidence that shows violence in video games (or movies/TV for that matter) is causally linked to violence in real life. Similarly, rock n'roll, jazz music and dancing didn't lead to the downfall of society.
    So what did lead to the downfall of society? Was it the processed foods or the vaccines?

    I notice that you don't say that society hasn't fallen.
    There can only be one.

  63. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    This topic is one that the entire city should be discussing. Yes we have technologies that captures and uploads everything, but violence has increased in intensity. Look at the food we consume now; the ever increasing lethal drugs; over consumption of alchohol; the violent video games we allow kids to play; the influence of horrible tv/movie programmings; the fame one garners for their deviant acts, and those are just some examples. I remembered when the video game 'Grand Theft Auto' came out, i saw little kids playing it, and I knew our society was going to be in trouble. Twenty years later, we became the product of the lists I mentioned above; we have become sensitized to violence, rage, theft, ignorance, and more. Even a few of our forum members illustrate the DNA to what I'm articulating and these members are closing in on retirement. Yes, violence and aggression has increased in both intensity and frequency; we live in very ominous times and I truly loathe it!
    ( Bold Mine)

    I think you say the truth more than you realize....you probably meant to say that we have been desensitized but in a lot of ways we really have been sensitized. Physical violence happened more in the past, but we hear about more because our media's reach is that much longer - and because visual media can make it sound so much more immediate that the written word. There's a lot of abuse that would have been undetected or ignored in the past as "normal" but now it's news.

    I've heard old-timers complain about violence today and then speak with pride about how their old man had to whip them with a belt as if that wasn't violence, or that it were somehow better. And talk with fondness of the old days when there would be regular fights after school or outside the bar.
    There can only be one.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    There's basically no reliable evidence that shows violence in video games (or movies/TV for that matter) is causally linked to violence in real life. Similarly, rock n'roll, jazz music and dancing didn't lead to the downfall of society.
    So what did lead to the downfall of society? Was it the processed foods or the vaccines?

    I notice that you don't say that society hasn't fallen.
    It hasn't. We're living in the most prosperous, peaceful times in humanity's history. The problem is that the 24 hour news cycle and internet are constantly bombarding us with news that leads us to believe otherwise.

    https://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels.../dp/0143122010

    Looks like we agree.

  65. #165

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    ^ I agree

    The violent crime statistics have been falling for decades. Political forces are fear mongering that we should be fearful and that crime is out of control when it is clearly under control and declining.



    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  66. #166

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    9 reasons Canada's crime rate is falling
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...rate-1.3692193

    The “real” reason - or maybe “A” real reason. Interesting article though:

    The real reason crime is falling so fast
    How social media obsession, smartphone addiction, and even violent video games are, surprisingly, making us safer
    Jul 31, 2015 Zoe McKnight

    ...
    And it’s not only crime; rising rates of technology use also correlate with a drop in other undesirable behaviours. Research has suggested that the same forces have helped to discourage young people from risky sex, drug use and aggression. The post-Millennial demographic known as Generation Z, defined loosely as those born after 1995, is known to be better-behaved than their older peers. As they enter their late teens, the most likely age of criminal inclination, Gen Z youths are smoking less, graduating more, having fewer pregnancies, and committing fewer robberies, car thefts and murders.

    ...
    Not everyone is convinced that chronic use of technology is helping to bring down crime. The crime substitution theory put forth by Griffiths and Sutton, for one, has faced detractors. University of Toronto criminologist Anthony Doob considers such theories “a dime a dozen,” because there have been countless changes to society since 1991. Likewise, Simon Fraser University criminology professor Graham Farrell isn’t convinced. He’s a former graduate student of Pease’s in the U.K. and a childhood friend of Sutton’s. Farrell attributes most of the crime drop to an increase in security. Since “debut crimes” such as car thefts and shoplifting have become more difficult, young people may be less likely to start a criminal career in the first place, he says. “That might be the stepping stone to why some violent crimes have gone down,” Farrell says. He’s also skeptical that video games, social media and smartphones contributed to the crime drop, which began in 1991, before Google and texting and before Gen Z was even born. But while he’s quick to point out that correlation is not causation, he’s not totally against further investigation to finally prove or disprove the hypothesis. “Mike [Sutton]’s been talking about it for years,” Farrell says from Vancouver. “I say, ‘This is interesting. Where is the evidence?’ ”...



    http://www.macleans.ca/society/the-r...lling-so-fast/

    Is this a 'luxury prison'? - BBC News
    “Despite criticism that it's too luxurious, Norway has achieved one of the lowest reoffending rates in the world.”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-432...-luxury-prison


    60 Minutes Presents: Behind Bars - CBS News
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minu...d-bars-prison/
    Last edited by KC; 05-03-2018 at 09:57 AM.

  67. #167
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    Coincidentally enough, this interview with Pinker by MacLean's was just published: http://www.macleans.ca/society/steve...rse-seriously/

  68. #168

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    A few things that haven't been considered in the violent crime decrease are;

    1) Due to technology, identity theft, fraud, robbing someone blind can happen safely over the internet and doesn't require knocking somebody over the head to rob them. Some murders or manslaughters, or acts of aggression would be property theft related. Its far less required to touch the victim now. Just steal their mail. Things like that.

    2)Most murders/homicide attempts are domestic in nature. Acts of passion between partners. Less people getting married, or involved in serious relationships, and getting into that generally later than used to be the case. Could be there are less partner related acts of aggression per population because of less rates of people involved in serious relationships.

    3) A small amount of decrease in serious crime and aggression might be explained by simply incarcerating more people and keeping them locked up or under supervision for longer. Both sides of the border this appears to be occurring.

    4) Aging population. Simply more people aging and that demographically the younger cohorts, more represented in murder, are less a proportion of the overall population.

    5)Tech babysitting. Addiction to video, Netflix, computer games, online activity is simply resulting in an uber cocooning effect and essentially meaning that theres going to be less people out murdering if more people are staring at monitors all day. As articles mention this also having the side benefit of maybe decreasing other forms of chemical addiction, and the crimes and organized crime related to that. Unless Netflix goes mafia on us somehow we're probably all a bit safer than previous generations.

    Many more possible factors.
    Last edited by Replacement; 06-03-2018 at 02:43 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  69. #169

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    2) It seems to me that there are likely fewer murders and assaults between married or other looooong time partners than between serial monogamists or other non-marrieds.

    If you take the conditions of a failing relationship as ripe ground for violence then you'll probably get more fighting when relationships fail more often.
    There can only be one.

  70. #170

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    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../tbl08-eng.htm

    Homicides, by closest accused to victim relationship, Canada, 2015 and 2016
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  71. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    There's basically no reliable evidence that shows violence in video games (or movies/TV for that matter) is causally linked to violence in real life. Similarly, rock n'roll, jazz music and dancing didn't lead to the downfall of society.
    So what did lead to the downfall of society? Was it the processed foods or the vaccines?

    Socialists.

  72. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    There's basically no reliable evidence that shows violence in video games (or movies/TV for that matter) is causally linked to violence in real life. Similarly, rock n'roll, jazz music and dancing didn't lead to the downfall of society.
    So what did lead to the downfall of society? Was it the processed foods or the vaccines?

    Socialists.
    and capitalists.


    Sorry - what is it that broken? Society? If so, I didn’t get that memo.

  73. #173

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    The culmination of all that i mentioned. There is no one factor. Look at the road rage since 'Grand Theft Auto' came out. I hypothesize that position just from personal observation over the years. It is to my understanding that the military is using video games as part of their training program for fighterjet pilots. I can't recall the artical i read long ago regarding this, so there has to be some relevance associated with video games.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  74. #174

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    https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-even...d-video-games/

    In a series of experiments, with more than 3,000 participants, the team demonstrated that video game concepts do not ‘prime’ players to behave in certain ways and that increasing the realism of violent video games does not necessarily increase aggression in game players.
    The dominant model of learning in games is built on the idea that exposing players to concepts, such as violence in a game, makes those concepts easier to use in ‘real life’. This is known as ‘priming’, and is thought to lead to changes in behaviour. Previous experiments on this effect, however, have so far provided mixed conclusions.
    Full paper here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...47563217305472
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  75. #175

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    ^^Non intuitively video games as such, rather than foster violence have seemingly provided an outlet for cathartic violence to be harmlessly dissipated. Its a fascinating area of study and every premise exists.
    But these thoughts have been occurring since parents were first concerned with depictions of shooting, murder, death on TV. Of course its never been possible to isolate such effects from changes in society, mores, etc.

    The one thing I would be concerned about though is that the Video game first person shooter narrative provides potential ideas. Like fighter pilot games you mention it puts that person in the literal cockpit of mass killing.

    To me anyway its hard not to imagine that the school shooters and mass shooters hadn't played a lot of those first person shoot him up games or that theres potentially some conditioning, some connection, some disinhibition. Its a chilling thought that in the self reports and annals indeed such games are often a fascination for these real life shooters.

    Indeed it would be interesting if any movements, actions of the shooters resembled video game play in anyway. For instance stealth tactics, hiding behind walls, defense, choice of weapons etc. This should be closely studied for any such connections.

    The biggest concern in any case I have with video game first person shooter genre is desensitisation. Its the acceptance of engaged vicarious violence. Its essentially violence porn, and like porn, has similar debilitating effects viewing the objects of that porn.

    I don't know if such thing exists but would anybody not be concerned if there were video games like the Saw or Hostel movies or that depict gathering people in your garage so you can murder and dismember them?

    Because those that defend GTA are essentially defending that level of visual and cognitive depravity. In a world that worships "Kill Bill".

    Is it that much surprise that such a world is increasingly hostile, combative, dissociative, and narcissistic. maybe some of the nonstop violence we view does creep in.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-03-2018 at 11:30 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  76. #176

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    The problem with studies is that we have to dwell further than the article itself. Look at who is sponsoring those studies/research. If it was financed by video developers, one can suspect a biase report in favor of respective incumbents. If agression has not risen then explain the gun shootings in school; children carrying knives to protect themselves; or teen age kids buying guns. Why do school children in the US have to lobby the Whitehouse? Factor in the daily mundane stress everyone is going through nowadays, i would say aggression has risen 1000 folds since i was a teen in the 80s. The OJ Simpson era was when I notice a change in progression of aggression. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 07-03-2018 at 11:37 AM.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  77. #177

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    Just further but at this point its basically unquestioned that immersion in pornography alters peoples cognitions, perception, relationships, interactions, mood, neurochemicals, and even brain synapses. The brain even being hardwired differently through immersion with porn. Theres endless studies assessing changes through immersion in porn and verifying the impacts.

    Why wouldn't there be similar connections and changes in response to violence porn immersion?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  78. #178

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    It's hilarious that some people are still blaming acts of real violence on the pretend violence shown in some video games.

    What decade is this?

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's hilarious that some people are still blaming acts of real violence on the pretend violence shown in some video games.

    What decade is this?
    Says the boards lifelong NRA and gun violence supporter.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  80. #180

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    No, I strongly oppose all forms of violence.

    However, I am a huge supporter and advocate of FAKE violence (video games, movies, etc.)

  81. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    No, I strongly oppose all forms of violence.

    However, I am a huge supporter and advocate of FAKE violence (video games, movies, etc.)
    Why would someone even be a "huge supporter and advocate" of violence porn?

    Seems odd to have that, and the NRA, and Trump, as a passion in life.

    You'll excuse me in thinking that you have been impacted and without even realizing.

    The pictures in the other thread of the insane church of guns ceremonies for me anyway depict the mindless and errant association advocates have that guns create safety and are worthy of worship. Which pretty much personifies the kind of nut that feels they have to go to bed with firearms to feel safe. Clinging to them like their life depends on it, in Suburbia anywhere USA. While their kid accidentally shoots themselves in the face with dads unsecured firearm.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-03-2018 at 12:00 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  82. #182

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    Aggression is not neccesarrily a physical attribute; phsychological and emotional may well be more detrimental. I seldomly watch TV but turned it on yesterday afternoon; and it just happened that the program 'The Talk' was on. The discussion was pertaining to Oprah Winfrey's '60 Minute' interview. It was regarding childrens development and the ramification of later lives. The authority researcher expounded that children who are fostered in a well balance setting has different brain wiring than those children that succumb from lesser balanced settings. The lesser become problematic in their future, so this factor is quite pertinent in conjunctipn with video games and other delimas which i mentioned.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  83. #183
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    Sheesh. The 80's and 90's called, and want their laughably outdated opinions back.

  84. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Why do school children in the US have to lobby the Whitehouse?
    The NRA.

  85. #185

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    Im well cognizant of this technicality hence why aggression has proliferated. When i was in school, and people within my age, we didn't worry about these issues. When kids feel they have to arm themselves for protection, does that not tell us aggression is real; the other day on the news, a cab driver in (BC?) was assaulted so badly when he honked at a driver swirving back and forth and nearly sideswiped him as they went through a bridge. He was bruised a battered with missing teeth because the driver stop and assaulted him. These are the actions that resembled the 'Grand Theft Auto' video game. Surely you have heard on the news where kids are stabbed because thieves wanted the Nike shoes they were wearing. Are these not examples of the aggressions we are talking about? When i was a teen, the extend of aggression was name calling or whose in the cool crowd. Skip ahead 30 some what years, teenagers are buying automatic guns and killing other students. The other day, a college student kill his parents whom came to pick him up for holidays because he was high on some form of hard drugs; so are these examples of mild aggressions then?
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 07-03-2018 at 03:06 PM.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  86. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    No, I strongly oppose all forms of violence.

    However, I am a huge supporter and advocate of FAKE violence (video games, movies, etc.)
    Why would someone even be a "huge supporter and advocate" of violence porn?

    I dunno - I am a fan of violent video games and violent movies probably for the same reason you are a huge supporter of watching violent sports like hockey and football.

    At least nobody gets seriously injured while I am playing a violent video game or watching a movie featuring fake violence.

  87. #187

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    Is this not Hollywood at this moment?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  88. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's hilarious that some people are still blaming acts of real violence on the pretend violence shown in some video games.

    What decade is this?
    Says the boards lifelong NRA and gun violence supporter.
    Yeah,what sort of ***** would tie video game violence to real world violence?

    Trump turns spotlight on violent video games in wake of Parkland shootings

    “I think that’s a very important point,” the president told Blackburn. “The video games, the movies, the internet stuff is so violent. It’s so incredible. I see it. I get to see things that you wouldn’t be - you’d be amazed at. I have a young - very young son, who - I look at some of the things he's watching, and I say, how is that possible?”


    “It's hard to believe that, at least for a percentage -- and maybe it's a small percentage of children -- this doesn’t have a negative impact on their thought process. But these things are really violent,” he continued.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=53593714
    Japan spends more per capita on the same video games that are sold in the states. in 2014, they had six gun murders compared to 33,599 in the US.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729

    It's not the video games.

  89. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's hilarious that some people are still blaming acts of real violence on the pretend violence shown in some video games.

    What decade is this?
    Says the boards lifelong NRA and gun violence supporter.
    Yeah,what sort of ***** would tie video game violence to real world violence?

    Trump turns spotlight on violent video games in wake of Parkland shootings

    “I think that’s a very important point,” the president told Blackburn. “The video games, the movies, the internet stuff is so violent. It’s so incredible. I see it. I get to see things that you wouldn’t be - you’d be amazed at. I have a young - very young son, who - I look at some of the things he's watching, and I say, how is that possible?”


    “It's hard to believe that, at least for a percentage -- and maybe it's a small percentage of children -- this doesn’t have a negative impact on their thought process. But these things are really violent,” he continued.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=53593714
    Japan spends more per capita on the same video games that are sold in the states. in 2014, they had six gun murders compared to 33,599 in the US.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729

    It's not the video games.
    For some further insight, note the difference between these two headlines:

    Sweden has 65,000 nuclear shelters. Now, in the era of Trump, it wants more.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...it-wants-more/


    Sweden plans to build more bunkers amid fears of Russian aggression - NBC News

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/s...ession-n849821

  90. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's hilarious that some people are still blaming acts of real violence on the pretend violence shown in some video games.

    What decade is this?
    Says the boards lifelong NRA and gun violence supporter.
    Yeah,what sort of ***** would tie video game violence to real world violence?

    Trump turns spotlight on violent video games in wake of Parkland shootings

    “I think that’s a very important point,” the president told Blackburn. “The video games, the movies, the internet stuff is so violent. It’s so incredible. I see it. I get to see things that you wouldn’t be - you’d be amazed at. I have a young - very young son, who - I look at some of the things he's watching, and I say, how is that possible?”


    “It's hard to believe that, at least for a percentage -- and maybe it's a small percentage of children -- this doesn’t have a negative impact on their thought process. But these things are really violent,” he continued.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=53593714
    Japan spends more per capita on the same video games that are sold in the states. in 2014, they had six gun murders compared to 33,599 in the US.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729

    It's not the video games.
    If you read my earlier posts I mentioned that video games offer cathartic violence on screen, also simply occupy ones time, in effect a tech babysitting cocooning and which thereby limits interaction with the real world. But as mentioned complete immersion in computers and such (many people are on 12hrs/day who are addicted to games, online, texting etc) which has its own effects on interaction with other people.

    Next, if detailed first person games can be used to train pilots why would people think that first person shooter games not be utilized by potential mass shooters. In fact several cases of these individuals indicate they did have an utter fascination to these games. What I posited is whether techniques in these games match the video depictions in these events. If these shooter games provide cognition, information, training, desensitisation is that not a problem?

    Further the hardwiring brain chemistry as mentioned can be altered through viewing porn and possibly through viewing first person mass shooting games in which the player is participant in a fantasy of shooting anybody or anything they come into contact with. Studies have revealed that such actions are associated with positive reinforcing releasing of neurotransmitters. Indeed with the games being specifically made to cater to such neurotransmitter release, and associated with kills, and which sets up a reinforcement paradigm. So that the person associates each kill with a quick positive release of neurotransmitters that are similar whether its real or a game.

    Now obviously any such effect would be rare, but for an individual that is sick and susceptible in the first place, and vulnerable to suggestion of course there can be a connection.

    Finally, your citing a culture where gun violence and murder is rare in the first place doesn't really mean much. This is circumstantial evidence, it doesn't provide any proof.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  91. #191

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    Next, and this is more the concern of the sociologist. Albeit in my industry I see the effects.

    In the last few decades we have a decided increase in fascination with extremely gory portrayal in movies, games, pictures and increasing fascination with the same. To the extent that we have series of movies like Saw that show ritualistic dismemberment of live individuals. Indeed this has been a dominant form of horror gore type pictures. But in the last few decades we have directors, producers that engage only in that ilk. Pumping Kill Bills out.

    It can't really be argued that movies like Reservoir dogs, Saw, Hostel brought video violence to a new not seen before level. With extended and detailed scenes of torture. As in with the Exorcist decades before some people were impacted, walked out of movie theaters, or turn away, or can't easily forget the images they see on screen. These being adult audiences as these were adult movies.

    The difficulty as a society is that we have endless movies that are essential depictions of violence porn and in present day they are easily available to any child. They can watch at home on TV, online, at a friends place and experience depictions that were not really meant for children. Further parents get desensitized as several movies cross genres. A movie may even suggest that its OK for kids and the content involves brutal depictions of gore. So that some parents start to wonder about restricting content etc. If this is whats on they inevitably give in and let kids or youth watch stuff they wouldn't be watching decades ago.

    Now regardless of whether one thinks theres any connection at all between violence porn and actions of violence in real life (statistically there isn't) do we really want a world where such a genre has become so huge in movies, video games and entertainment? Why this rabbit hole? Are there not more ideal forms of entertainment that the public, and in turn children can be inundated with?

    Finally, many people who are huge fans of this violence porn genre of entertainment will be the first ones to mock this post, to respond "oh won't somebody save the kids and such" but part of the reason that is done is because those individuals love the material, for whatever reason, just like some people love porn. They'll defend it outright. They'll even defend that a society should offer copious amounts of porn, violence porn, as to not allow this is against freedom of expression. They'll quote erroneous Tarentino bs that he's merely reflecting the state of society (oh really). But myself I'd wish for a society where porn and violence porn weren't such dominating themes that are so represented online, in movies, in games. Entertainment made quite a decided shift in this direction. Simply to sell volume and that violence sells. That porn sells.

    Doesn't that say anything about who we are?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  92. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Now regardless of whether one thinks theres any connection at all between violence porn and actions of violence in real life (statistically there isn't) do we really want a world where such a genre has become so huge in movies, video games and entertainment? Why this rabbit hole? Are there not more ideal forms of entertainment that the public, and in turn children can be inundated with?

    OK, who decides what's an "ideal form of entertainment" and who decides? The government? Federal, provincial or local? Churches, do they get a veto? Or should we simply insist that everything gets a G rating, just to be safe?

    Here's a thought, if you don't want you children to see something, it's your responsibility to see that they don't. If you want to pass it on to someone else, don't complain when they watch something you don't like.


    Meanwhile, we have someone who'll be advising the president that video games are bad but that police should use more lethal force because it leads to better sex. Really.


    Trump’s video game violence panel features police trainer who says lethal force leads to ‘the best sex’

    The Washington Post’s Radley Balko, who has written extensively on Grossman’s courses in the past, writes on Twitter that Grossman not only tells cops they should employ more lethal force, he also tells them that “after killing a man, they’ll have the best sex of their lives.”

    In a Washington Post article on Grossman published last year, Balko noted that Grossman believes that officers ought to think of themselves more as warriors than as public servants — and he wants them to be always on edge about evil doers who are out to kill them.


    “We fight violence,” Grossman tells students, according to a report on a class published by Mother Jones. “What do we fight it with? Superior violence. Righteous violence.”


    The reason that Grossman is attending a panel on violence in video games is that he believes these games are literally training young people to become mass killers.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/03/tru...eads-best-sex/
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 08-03-2018 at 11:33 AM.

  93. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    In the last few decades we have a decided increase in fascination with extremely gory portrayal in movies, games, pictures and increasing fascination with the same. To the extent that we have series of movies like Saw that show ritualistic dismemberment of live individuals. Indeed this has been a dominant form of horror gore type pictures. But in the last few decades we have directors, producers that engage only in that ilk. Pumping Kill Bills out.
    No, as a horror fan, I can say with 100% confidence that the 1980s were the golden age of movies full of violence, gore, creative deaths and high body counts. The 1980s mainstream also featured a lot more violent "hard-R" action movies, and more gunfire and gun deaths on network TV than today as well.

    The 80s was mostly crap, but they created lots of fake violence in the name of entertainment very well!
    Last edited by MrOilers; 08-03-2018 at 12:32 PM.

  94. #194
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
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    I'm not a horror fan for reasons you mentioned above. Although I grew up as a teen in the 1960's watching my daily weekday does of the original Dark Shadows. The B&W version.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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