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Thread: Former Ticketmaster CEO: Why you can't get tickets to anything

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    Default Former Ticketmaster CEO: Why you can't get tickets to anything

    Former Ticketmaster CEO tells us the real reason why you're screwed
    https://theringer.com/ticket-industr...ff6#.7bs7x4mcn

    Interesting read. Share where you can.
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    I dunno...trophy wife and kid go to a million concerts...always seem to get good seats at Rexall. I just picked up my all of my NFL tickets throughout the season...all good seats. Not sure who is NOT getting good tickets. To be honest..it seems demand here in Etown for tickets is stronger than say, Phoenix, Orlando, Seattle (with the exception of the Seahawks).

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    Our market isn't that big comparatively speaking so demand is rarely high enough to render tickets out of reach except with something huge like this summers Hip tour.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    many scalpers bought huge bulk of tickets is why you could not get a good seating at any events.


    Gov't should pass heavy regulated ticket sales online and anyone can buy up to 5 tickets only at once that's it.
    Last edited by jagators63; 04-06-2016 at 08:52 PM.
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    If bands want to screw their fans over this way then that's their business. Government has a lot more important issues to deal with than this.

    If there is an issue with one company controlling too much of a market then there are existing laws to deal with that that should be enforced.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    So the biggest artists sign contracts that guarantee them money every time they step on the stage, and that guaranteed amount is usually more than 100 percent of the revenue if every ticket is sold at face value. Which means that if every ticket in the venue “sells out” at the face value printed on the ticket, that wouldn’t be enough to pay the artist what they are contractually guaranteed by the promoter for the performance.

    How does the promoter make up the difference? You guessed it: by selling some of the best seats directly in the secondary market, so that artists don’t get flack from you for pricing them high right out of the gate. That means the artist is either directly complicit, or that the artist is taking a massive check for the performance while looking the other way.
    There's lots of other choice quotes in that article, but I thought this one stood out. I didn't realize that the ticket/promoting business had gotten so screwed up that performers in some cases are actually guaranteed more money than what the ticket sales at face value would even generate. The whole industry appears to be completely broken.

    I don't know what the solution is. I think it's ridiculous that someone is willing to pay $1,000 for a front row seat at a Bieber concert or whatever, but if the market will bear that, then so be it. The problem I have is all the middle men and brokers who are taking their cut along the way. I don't know if some sort of auction process would help find the true value of tickets, or how you could set one up that wouldn't be a rigged game similar to how it is now. But as it stands right now, the industry is totally broken.

    edit: One of the suggestions in that link is to make tickets non-transferable. I can see how that would cripple the re-sellers, but it also screws fans. For example, with the Hip concerts in Edmonton, I was going to pick up some tickets in the Hip Club pre-sale for myself and a few friends. However, I ended up not buying them because a) the stupid Ticketmaster website kept rejecting the password to the pre-sale I was given for no apparent reason and b) I wasn't 100% sure that I could attend the concert, as I may be out of town that night. The Ticketmaster website made it appear that pre-sale tickets would only be honored if the card holder who purchased the ticket is present. So if I bought 4 tickets and ended up being out of town or simply unable to attend that concert due to illness, death in the family, or an infinite number of other reasons, all four tickets would go to waste and my friends would be screwed.

    Seems to me like banning the transfer of any and all concert tickets has as many negatives for fans as positives.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 06-06-2016 at 01:14 PM.

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    The solution to this in the long term is fully electronic tickets. Transferability could be handled by the the ticket seller mediating any transfer of the ticket.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    ^^

    So in addition to Top_Dawg hating crowds, and the fact that the acoustics at most venues are terrible, this would be yet another reason why he hasn't been to a concert in over thirty years.


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    ^if you haven't been to concert in 30 years, how do you know re acoustics? I've been pleasantly surprised concerts of late, the technology (and lip syncing / auto tune) has come a long way. I could probably get up there and sound great (well, maybe not, but then, if Taylor Swift can...).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The solution to this in the long term is fully electronic tickets. Transferability could be handled by the the ticket seller mediating any transfer of the ticket.
    What makes you think artists want a solution? As ugly as that article is, it appears the system achieves exactly what they want, they can advertise reasonable prices for "regular fans", while turning a blind eye to them being jacked up on the side (ensuring they are very well paid). Tragically Hip is a classic example, they know this is last big chance to raise cash for Gordon Downie's family, and all of them, they might say its unfair, but they aren't going to turn down the money from it. This is last big pay day for band members, sad as that is.

    If by contrast we had an electronic system where the price was determined by bid, their profiteering would be obvious. And if we had a system where prices were just fixed and cheap, they wouldn't get the money I expect they feel they have earned. Its a clever, albeit devious, compromise.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-06-2016 at 01:54 PM.

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    Maybe one solution is to go back to the old days and line up overnight for tickets, then if there's any tix left then put them up for sale on Ticketmaster. The Folk Festival used this system over the weekend, and it seems to work fine when you consider the scarcity of tickets for this thing every year. Hell, people still line up for Boxing Day so why not.
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    That's so 80s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    ^^

    So in addition to Top_Dawg hating crowds, and the fact that the acoustics at most venues are terrible, this would be yet another reason why he hasn't been to a concert in over thirty years.

    Many would consider this an added benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The solution to this in the long term is fully electronic tickets. Transferability could be handled by the the ticket seller mediating any transfer of the ticket.
    What makes you think artists want a solution? As ugly as that article is, it appears the system achieves exactly what they want, they can advertise reasonable prices for "regular fans", while turning a blind eye to them being jacked up on the side (ensuring they are very well paid). Tragically Hip is a classic example, they know this is last big chance to raise cash for Gordon Downie's family, and all of them, they might say its unfair, but they aren't going to turn down the money from it. This is last big pay day for band members, sad as that is.

    If by contrast we had an electronic system where the price was determined by bid, their profiteering would be obvious. And if we had a system where prices were just fixed and cheap, they wouldn't get the money I expect they feel they have earned. Its a clever, albeit devious, compromise.
    This won't come from the artists or Ticketmaster as it will come from demand from the customers to stop having to deal with paper tickets.

    One thing I do wonder about is how Ticketmaster has managed to escape anti-trust laws. They have a pretty clear monopoly. On the other hand technology is moving fast enough that perhaps a startup could get in with a fully electronic system. More likely, I think, would be an existing industry, like movie tickets, moving into concerts as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    This won't come from the artists or Ticketmaster as it will come from demand from the customers to stop having to deal with paper tickets.

    One thing I do wonder about is how Ticketmaster has managed to escape anti-trust laws. They have a pretty clear monopoly. On the other hand technology is moving fast enough that perhaps a startup could get in with a fully electronic system. More likely, I think, would be an existing industry, like movie tickets, moving into concerts as well.
    The merger was approved by both the Canadian & American governments with stipulations.

    Separate regulatory reviews of the proposal were continuing in the United States and Canada. On January 25, 2010, the United States and Canadian governments cleared the way for Live Nation and TicketMaster to merge. Irving Azoff is chairman and founder of Azoff Music Management Group, Inc. In late 2008, he became chairman and CEO of Ticketmaster Entertainment. He is now Executive Chairman of Live Nation Entertainment.

    As part of the agreement with governments to merge, Ticketmaster has to sell its ownership in its self-ticketing company, Paciolan. According to the Associated Press, Live Nation Entertainment will be under a 10-year court order prohibiting it from retaliating against venues that choose to accept competitors' ticket-selling contracts, and it "must allow venues that sign deals elsewhere to take consumer ticketing data with them".

    In addition, the new company will have to license a copy of its ticketing software to two companies—Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG) and either Comcast Spectacor or another "suitable" company—so that both companies can compete "head-to-head" with Ticketmaster for venues’ business. After five years, AEG will have the option of buying the software, replacing it with something else, or partnering with another ticketing company.
    Evidently there IS competition, but that competition is at the big-shot level. Katz got an offer he couldn't refuse from Live Nation so Live Nation events & Ticketmaster tickets are what we'll get in Edmonton. The end-user experience isn't really a factor whatsoever, as the real consumer relationship is between OEG & Live Nation. Everyone else is just along for the ride.
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    So true! We need a like button on the new version of this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny View Post
    So true! We need a like button on the new version of this site.
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    Agreed

    A great graphic from Titanium48

    Years ago it was illegal to scalp tickets in Alberta for more than face value under the Amusements Act. But the Act was was repealed several years ago and hasn’t been replaced.

    Ticketmaster is actively buying the entire ticket inventory and then reselling blocks of tickets to known scalping sites at a huge profit where Ticketmaster adds no value or service. They are just pimping.




    Now, for many events it is nearly impossible to get tickets for face value. How would it be if you went to buy groceries and the can of soup that has a label with a price of $1.49 had added shipping charges and fees for shelf space, billing, store overhead, etc for a total of $3.29, and that those costs are already included in the cost difference between wholesale and retail prices?

    Often the ticket resellers including Ticketmaster are not providing added value except seat allocation which is usually a computer algorithm with little or no overhead.
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    The people buying the tickets & going to shows aren't Ticketmaster's customers. They're consumers, sure, but really they're Ticketmaster's product. LiveNation has a contract with OEG to schedule, manage & sell tickets (through their Ticketmaster subsidiary) to events at the new arena. They know, no matter how deep most people's convictions are & how vehement their opposition is to Ticketmaster they're still gonna shell out to see a game or concert & that'll allow them to pay Katz his cut while maintaining profitability for their own shareholders.

    Ticketmaster's customer in Edmonton is OEG.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The solution to this in the long term is fully electronic tickets. Transferability could be handled by the the ticket seller mediating any transfer of the ticket.

    When you buy a regular airline ticket for yourself, your family or friend, you have to give each name and it is printed on the ticket. They have seat selection, graduated pricing based upon when you buy and different prices for better seats. When you board, you have to show proof of ID that must match the ticket.
    The airlines have solved this problem and are heavily regulated to ensure fair pricing. When is the last time you have heard of someone scalping regular airline tickets? (not including charter flights)

    We need anti-scalping laws that prevent bulk purchases of tickets and profiteering. This is the exact definition of profiteering and the black market.

    When you buy event tickets, they can print the names on the tickets and people have to show ID. Problem solved

    In Ontario, Canada, re-selling the tickets above face value is prohibited by the Ticket Speculation Act and is punishable by a fine of $5,000 for an individual (including those buying the tickets above face) or $50,000 for a corporation.[15]Effective July 1, 2015, in an effort to protect consumers from purchasing fraudulent tickets, Ontario created an exemption under the Ticket Speculation Act to:

    • Enable official ticket sellers to authenticate tickets that are being resold
    • Permit tickets to be resold above face value in circumstances where tickets are authenticated or have a money-back guarantee
    • Allow tickets to be resold at a price that includes any service fees paid when the ticket was first purchased.[16]

    Quebec put into law "Bill 25" in June 2012, making it illegal for ticket brokers to resell a ticket for more than the face value of the ticket without first obtaining permission from the ticket's original vendor. Brokers reselling tickets are required to inform consumers the tickets are being resold, and must tell consumers the name of the ticket's original vendor and the original face value price. The penalty to violating the law includes fines of $1,000 to $2,000 for the first offense, and as much as $200,000 for repeated violations.
    Glastonbury Festival, which sold out 137,500 tickets within less than two hours in 2007,[30] introduced a system in the same year whereby tickets included photographic ID of the original buyer, to enforce non-exchangeability
    Both https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticket_resale
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    'There's a big problem': Two-thirds of Tragically Hip tickets weren't sold directly to fans
    Live Nation admits for the first time that brokers and bots made millions, leaving many fans shut out

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tick...lace-1.3811658
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    And Live Nation is prepared to do nothing about it because it makes bank with Stub Hub.
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    Canadian scalper's multimillion-dollar StubHub scheme exposed in Paradise Papers
    Julien Lavallée’s ticket resale business targets high-grossing acts like Adele, Drake and Ed Sheeran

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/para...bhub-1.4395361

    Love this comment at the end:

    His theatre witnessed Lavallée buy up tickets for the smash hit Book of Mormon in 2014, as did many other scalpers who resold them for huge profits.

    "Governments more or less think scalping is not a real crime," he said. "They think it's victimless crime. 'Who gets hurt?' And so nobody pays a lot of attention to it."
    The issue certainly got a lot of attention during the final Hip tour.
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    Reduces the amount of money slipping out of Alberta’s economy too.

    EDITORIAL: Alberta government makes right move on ticket-selling bots

    http://edmontonsun.com/opinion/edito...t-selling-bots

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    many scalpers bought huge bulk of tickets is why you could not get a good seating at any events.


    Gov't should pass heavy regulated ticket sales online and anyone can buy up to 5 tickets only at once that's it.
    It must burn performers and promoters who sell the tickets for one price and scalpers sell them for 2, 3 or even 10 times face value. Pure profit and profiteering on their music and they get nothing other than complaints.

    Have you seen the prices scalpers are getting for Springsteen on Broadway?
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    Performers are in on it, for good reason. They want to look good to fans, so they advertise tickets at low prices like $40, $60, $120, whatever. However, only like 15% of all seats are sold this way. The rest go to promoters, resellers, etc, where the actual demand value is paid. The entire system is designed this way so the artists make good money, they can afford massive productions, and they can pay people.

    When tickets go on sale, you're not getting beaten by bots, you're getting beaten because out of 15,000 seats, only a couple thousand are available, and if there's 2-3 presales followed by a general sale, each of those might only have a few hundred.
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