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Thread: Moderation

  1. #1
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    Default Moderation

    Please, use the report post function. I cannot fix what I don't see,

    Also, do not start threads asking for moderators to be removed. I will make that decision.

    I am reducing moderators until further notice. I need to reassess where things are going. I've been swamped with post Airshow issues (I still have a broken F16 to deal with, and if you don't think that's expensive, think again).

    Report post.

    Use it.

    Admin
    Ow

  2. #2

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    I asked for a moderation review long, long before the airshow, back when this site rose from the ashes.

    I would not have donated a thin dime after seeing your TV interview if I knew your comments about the monoculture & echochamber being deleterious to the ongoing success were nothing more than lip service.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  3. #3

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    Hi Admin,

    thanks for at least starting to look into it. This abuse of power has only been getting worse as of late. Some are painting themselves into corners and when they can't word themselves out of what they say, they are deleting posts, banning users (such as myself....)...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I asked for a moderation review long, long before the airshow, back when this site rose from the ashes.

    I would not have donated a thin dime after seeing your TV interview if I knew your comments about the monoculture & echochamber being deleterious to the ongoing success were nothing more than lip service.
    Don't dare accuse me of being dishonest.

    That I will not tolerate.

    If you think a 7 figure show is a 3 day planning event, think again. 2017, should we do it, is already taking 30 hours a week in planning.

    Look at the "Pint" thread, you'll see I completely disagreed with some of the positions taken by this "echo chamber".

    The "echo chamber" is not something I can moderate away just as I cannot moderate away other opinions decrying said "echo chamber". To do so is more disingenuous than what you're accusing me of.

    There is a large constituency on this forum that is pro one opinion. I cannot change that via moderation. Only alternate opinions can do that - well thought out and reasonable opinions. That takes more people participating.

    Open note to all:

    Here is a tip. If you don't like an opinion, just discuss the opinion. These barbs that are going back and forth, these little additions to the text, these are not helping.

    Say your piece. That's it. You don't need to then end the conversation with something like, "but we all know a certain so and so who does such and such with this thing and that". Trust me, the audience reading is smarter than you think. They see the bias. They understand it. They see, for example, the double standards of "inappropriate" massing in one area juxtaposed with the same massing in another area being "appropriate". One building being historical when the other one is "hysterical". One parade is just and wanted, while a similar one is reprehensible. One bar is liked, and another similar one is bad. They understand the anti car bias and argue their own points. They see the anti pedestrian bias, and they argue their own points.

    They see, they read, they make their own opinions. I see the actual readership. Be articulate, and you'd be surprised at just how many people agree with you.

    Just because they don't post, doesn't mean they don't read. I get the emails.

    Like I said, I am doing the moderation for the next while. Things need to calm down. I am seriously not a happy camper with this behaviour on many poster's parts.
    Ow

  5. #5

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    I used to think that we needed a system where every single post is totally anonymous and so, is author reputation free. Each set of words would to stand on its own. Then when totally inappropriate wording is used, viewers could vote to reveal a 'handle' and if that persists, then eventually reveal their real identify. However, I see that may not work. Scrap another bone headed idea.

    Additionally, using or revealing the fact that one donated 'to save the site' as leverage to influence the site's operation and moderation seems immoral to me.

    BTW - feel free to delete this post. These are just words thought up on the spot and I reserve the right to change my anonymous position without a moment's notice. I also apologize for offending any other anonymous "character". I try hard not to learn the personal identities of other posters and think it is regrettable that some have come to light because it just seems to make a potentially objective process of give and take, of learning and debate into a very personal 'reputational' war loaded with all kinds of emotional crap.
    Last edited by KC; 16-08-2016 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #6

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    I didn't accuse you of being dishonest. There's a big jump between not doing something about a known problem & (deliberate or even unintentional) deception. I know you're busy, pulled a dozen different directions with other things & always juggling priorities.

    When Matt shared his ban message with me, including Ian's petulant ultimatum & I realized that not only was Ian a moderator still (despite the poor optics on that), that he's actively moderating threads he's participating (a huge forum etiquette no-no) & that the Admins were giving tacit approval by letting his behaviour continue (lest he take his ball & go home) it became clear to me just how far off the tracks this place truly has gotten.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Additionally, using or revealing the fact that one donated 'to save the site' as leverage to influence the site's operation and moderation seems immoral to me.
    It's no more immoral than a moderator using his prior & ongoing non-financial contributions as justification to bend the rules while banning someone else for pointing out said moderator's fallacious logic. In fact the moderator's case is much worse, given that the abuse of power wasn't hypothetical.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Additionally, using or revealing the fact that one donated 'to save the site' as leverage to influence the site's operation and moderation seems immoral to me.
    I agree with you, everyone should be the same. Those of us who donated, its probably because we could / cared about the site, those who didn't, it shouldn't mean they are valued more or less, may have cared just as much but for whatever reason not possible for them to.

    I think with moderation, people need to keep in mind, if they aren't breaking the rules / personal attacks, likely they won't be banned. I don't think it matters that much re consistency, moderation will never catch everything.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Admin
    Like I said, I am doing the moderation for the next while. Things need to calm down. I am seriously not a happy camper with this behaviour on many poster's parts.


    I don't think it's even "many" posters. It's basically 3-4 in particular. And has been for years. I mean certain topics can bring out poor behavior/posting from others, but those are occasional flare ups that can be dealt with as they come. But the day to day, continual sniping and tit for tat is limited to only a handful of people.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Admin
    Like I said, I am doing the moderation for the next while. Things need to calm down. I am seriously not a happy camper with this behaviour on many poster's parts.


    I don't think it's even "many" posters. It's basically 3-4 in particular. And has been for years. I mean certain topics can bring out poor behavior/posting from others, but those are occasional flare ups that can be dealt with as they come. But the day to day, continual sniping and tit for tat is limited to only a handful of people.
    Some people are just highly emotional, volatile and unable to control or refocus their temperament. It's their nature and we need to be tolerant of the differences among us. Learn to enjoy and even study the various forms 'sniping' and attempts at character assassination. (How did I do?)

  11. #11

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    I didn't bring up that I donated to get clout, but merely to illustrate I was on the fence regarding the fate of the site until Richard gave his interview wherein he expressed concerns & sentiments I share regarding the monoculture & certain demographics exerting undue influence on the site/conversations. I figured if he felt the way I did that we'd see some movement on addressing the issues we had in common, so I threw in my support. Since then however if anything it's actually getting worse & I've given up participating almost entirely on the site due to the inconsistent/incoherent moderation.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Hi Admin,

    thanks for at least starting to look into it. This abuse of power has only been getting worse as of late. Some are painting themselves into corners and when they can't word themselves out of what they say, they are deleting posts, banning users (such as myself....)...



    Classic.

    Top_Dawg loves shameless power tripping.

  13. #13

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    Just want to state again that I have had no concern about moderation being impartial, or biased, or problematic on this board. I don't think it is. I've been on boards where moderation blatantly picks agenda and sides. The non intrusive moderation here is a breath of fresh air mostly.

    The board is as good as the posters posting on it and the decorum and discussion that they either bring, or decide not to bring.


    That said there is a degree of badgering on this board historically that makes it a less pleasant place to visit and that I continue to think shows this to be an at times unwelcome place for those lurking, visiting.


    Maybe there could be threads and sections where knives are checked at the door..
    Last edited by Replacement; 17-08-2016 at 11:08 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  14. #14
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    I found using the ignore feature paired with Greasemonkey and a script on Firefox means I never even see posts from people on my ignore list - I don't even see that they've posted, or were quoted. Makes coming here a lot easier if there are users that just drive you nutty with their posts.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I found using the ignore feature paired with Greasemonkey and a script on Firefox means I never even see posts from people on my ignore list - I don't even see that they've posted, or were quoted. Makes coming here a lot easier if there are users that just drive you nutty with their posts.
    Oh gordie, gordie, gordie. I can see you but you can't see me.


    Sorry, just working on my petulance.



    Any of youse guys like Oscar Wilde?

    “Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong.”

    “Life is too important to be taken seriously.”

    “Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.”

    "To be great is to be misunderstood.”

    “In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.”
    Last edited by KC; 18-08-2016 at 02:41 AM.

  16. #16

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    Gord's right, break out the ignore button. I've got a dozen or so people on the list just because they are constantly creating arguments. Occasionally I check and see if things have calmed down. When they are, off the ignore list they go. But the moderation however is sorely lacking. There are threads I just actively ignore because they've devolved into pissing matches. It's honestly bad enough that I don't bother to put the effort into even uploading the shots I take because pictures seem to further add fuel to whatever fire is happening at any given point. There is just so much pent up whatever that simple comments or misunderstandings just turn into raging infernos of **** and bitching. I will post the occasional quip, mention some stuff I have seen in my neck of the woods. But honestly the desire to participate given the constant bitchy shitstorms brewed up by whatever nonsense is just not there. I at least still do, but I would hazard a guess that there are some visitors who are just like 'f that'. I'm not even going to touch the who is/isn't/shouldn't be a mod.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I found using the ignore feature paired with Greasemonkey and a script on Firefox means I never even see posts from people on my ignore list - I don't even see that they've posted, or were quoted. Makes coming here a lot easier if there are users that just drive you nutty with their posts.
    You should market and sell this Greasemonkey script, you'd make a mint!

    Even though I have the trolls, the keyboard tough guys, the consistently clueless and the white noise generators on my Ignore list, it's hard to eliminate them entirely from the posting experience when others insist on continuing to derive any little value in interacting with them, which is akin to extracting blood from inside a stone.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  18. #18

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    I find it hilarious that the king of posturing on the forums has a gap in his self awareness that precludes him from realizing he's part of the problem while simultaneously attempting to call other people out.

    As for moderation, I firmly believe that moderators should not be a secret list, nor should moderators handle topics inside their own bailiwick. If Ian's a mod he absolutely shouldn't be moderating anything that touches development/real estate/discussions on the urban fabric, etc as he's got a clear personal bias & a history of less than impartial thinking on the topic. Not sure if the software supports moderators being only able to moderate certain subforums, but it'd certainly be something to look into.

    (Not attempting to single him out, just using him as a high-visibility, recent example.)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I found using the ignore feature paired with Greasemonkey and a script on Firefox means I never even see posts from people on my ignore list - I don't even see that they've posted, or were quoted. Makes coming here a lot easier if there are users that just drive you nutty with their posts.
    You should market and sell this Greasemonkey script, you'd make a mint!

    Even though I have the trolls, the keyboard tough guys, the consistently clueless and the white noise generators on my Ignore list, it's hard to eliminate them entirely from the posting experience when others insist on continuing to derive any little value in interacting with them, which is akin to extracting blood from inside a stone.
    That's actually quite funny. You (SDM if I'm ignored by him) just created and threw out a bunch of derogatory terms to categorize, label and stereotype a good proportion of your fellow users here on the forum. I guess we all just have to stop deluding ourselves and admit that we're here on an online forum because we are all to some degree social incompetents lacking some of the most basic of social skills, hence we gravitate to posting on-line rather that interacting directly with people in society. Socially and especially so, on-line, we're just a bunch of bumbling idiots and we just hope that everyone will tolerate us and not ban us from this remaining form of interaction. Moreover, when we find we can't interact sensibly and without bias, loaded, terse and childish language, we then turn on the moderators who incomprehensibly can't seem to side with us and against the other incompetents (a group that eventually expands to: everyone else).

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I find it hilarious that the king of posturing on the forums has a gap in his self awareness that precludes him from realizing he's part of the problem while simultaneously attempting to call other people out.

    As for moderation, I firmly believe that moderators should not be a secret list, nor should moderators handle topics inside their own bailiwick. If Ian's a mod he absolutely shouldn't be moderating anything that touches development/real estate/discussions on the urban fabric, etc as he's got a clear personal bias & a history of less than impartial thinking on the topic. Not sure if the software supports moderators being only able to moderate certain subforums, but it'd certainly be something to look into.

    (Not attempting to single him out, just using him as a high-visibility, recent example.)
    Wow, I see you beat me to some of the same sentiments. Well said.

    Some more of my view: This site just barely, BARELY survived. All thanks to one person plus I assume a very few others that stepped up and actually did something tangible (like taking on moderation). The rest of us may have helped in some way via contributing a couple bucks but that's not what saved the site.

    That said, I figure it's time to treat us like the two-year old's that we basically are. Admin should now just say:

    "You get what you get - and you don't get upset." If you don't like the moderation - then just F-off you unappreciative ********. Shut up or step up. Offer to moderate "oh so well" yourself.

    From now on, all of you will stop your complaing, tolerate some discomfort and ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY STOP WHINNING AND MAKING MORE WORK FOR ADMIN. Understand? '.
    ( How do you like my use of all caps? Nice touch eh. I understand that the visual difference, like some colours, evokes strange and irrational emotional responses. )
    Last edited by KC; 19-08-2016 at 11:29 AM.

  21. #21
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    It is pretty ironic when the thread to discuss moderation devolves into people bickering at each other.

    I'm pretty sure vBulletin allows for moderation of specific sub-forums though. I'm with Noodle on that one. People should probably be moderating sub-forums that they have little to no bias for. I don't know where IanO all posts, because I don't frequent all parts of the site, but it seems the Smartphone thread (I see it comes up a lot on the activity feed) or something like that probably needs moderating too. Might be good to have some kind of meeting with moderation people, whether you do that in person, chat room, or VoIP kind of thing. Then again, between Richard and Chris, I'm sure they have a good idea of who they would want to see moderating around here relative to others based on post history.

  22. #22

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    It's very easy to allow mission creep to turn a fun pastime into a hateful job. It's also easy to suggest others do the work and bureaucratize everything.
    Last edited by KC; 19-08-2016 at 12:22 PM.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    It is pretty ironic when the thread to discuss moderation devolves into people bickering at each other.
    ...
    Hmm. Moderation and bickering seem joined at the hip to me.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    You should market and sell this Greasemonkey script, you'd make a mint!
    There are two - vBulletin full ignore and vBulletin total ignore. I forget which does which, but one deletes any message from a person on your ignore list, and the other deletes any quoted message parts from someone on your ignore list. I only have a single person on my block list, but those scripts make it nice to imagine he doesn't even exist anymore
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    I haven't seen expat on here in a long time. So are you sure the scripts are working?

  26. #26
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    Yup, 100%. I tested them by placing a frequent poster on my ignore list and all the posts were gone. Remove the user from the list and the posts return. Give them a shot.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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