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Thread: Edmonton mayor makes push for river valley park similar to Vancouver's popular seawall

  1. #1
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    Default Edmonton mayor makes push for river valley park similar to Vancouver's popular seawall

    Edmonton mayor makes push for river valley park similar to Vancouver's popular seawall
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/08/1...opular-seawall

    Edmonton Mayor Don Iveson proposed a new urban park Wednesday along the North Saskatchewan River, likening it to Vancouver's popular seawall.

    It would feature an expanded walking and biking area between Groat Road and the Walterdale Bridge, with small parks, benches and places to get down to the water. This would build on the Touch the Water project below the Hotel Macdonald, which features wide, park-like stairs and benches alongside a funicular. It is scheduled to open in the fall of 2017.

    "When people see that, they're going to say: 'This is fantastic. I want to see more of this,' " said Iveson, after a meeting to discuss River Valley Alliance capital projects for 2017 through 2022. "I want to get ahead of that and get a preliminary sense of what would be involved in extending that kind of experience."

    The River Valley Alliance is using matching funds from federal and provincial governments to connect riverside pathways right through the capital region. They envision having enhanced facilities like Iveson proposes in heavily used areas during future phases.

    But Iveson said his proposed project is needed now. "We have so many people running and biking and walking their dogs, whatever, along River Valley Road right now that it's actually getting quite congested."
    I'm all for this, though if he's using Vancouver comparables I'd like to see a Coal Harbor promenade in Lower Rossdale.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    "When people see that, they're going to say: 'This is fantastic.
    And when they see what it's going to cost, they're going to say "WTF? 5% tax increase? Potholes!!!"

    Let's wait to see what a "fantastic" idea the funicular is going to be...

    Remember, "fantastic" has its roots in "fantasy."

    And we want 16-year-olds to vote? Do we really with this bunch?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  3. #3

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    I'm all for it. We can't be bitchin all the time about potholes, cracked pavements etc. You have to have some nice places to visit. It would not matter how much the C of E spent of fixing potholes they are still going to keep happening. Until someone comes up with a product for potholes that can beat mother natures freeze and thaw cycles then potholes will be part of the scenery. Some of our taxes have to be spent on the finer things in live like parks etc.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  4. #4

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    Last time I went to Vancouver I noticed that Vancouver's seawall path are was a little different than Edmonton's situation.

    Did not see thick ice and snow on the path in Vancouver.
    Did not see ice jams ripping up the shore
    Did not see a springtime flood that washed away the seawall or covering it with mud

    Note to Mayor Don Iveson: Edmonton is not on the protected Burrard Inlet

    Second Note to Mayor Don Iveson: Last time I looked, there is already a popular walking, biking, sking and jogging path between Groat Road and the Walterdale Bridge, with small parks, benches and places to get down to the water along River Valley Road. Don, try it one day.



    Maybe we need a couple of semi-permanent coffee shops and brew pubs along the route such as the popular Terrasse St. Ambroise on on the Lachine Canal in Montreal



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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Edmonton mayor makes push for river valley park similar to Vancouver's popular seawall
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/08/1...opular-seawall

    Edmonton Mayor Don Iveson proposed a new urban park Wednesday along the North Saskatchewan River, likening it to Vancouver's popular seawall.

    It would feature an expanded walking and biking area between Groat Road and the Walterdale Bridge, with small parks, benches and places to get down to the water. This would build on the Touch the Water project below the Hotel Macdonald, which features wide, park-like stairs and benches alongside a funicular. It is scheduled to open in the fall of 2017.

    "When people see that, they're going to say: 'This is fantastic. I want to see more of this,' " said Iveson, after a meeting to discuss River Valley Alliance capital projects for 2017 through 2022. "I want to get ahead of that and get a preliminary sense of what would be involved in extending that kind of experience."

    The River Valley Alliance is using matching funds from federal and provincial governments to connect riverside pathways right through the capital region. They envision having enhanced facilities like Iveson proposes in heavily used areas during future phases.

    But Iveson said his proposed project is needed now. "We have so many people running and biking and walking their dogs, whatever, along River Valley Road right now that it's actually getting quite congested."
    I'm all for this, though if he's using Vancouver comparables I'd like to see a Coal Harbor promenade in Lower Rossdale.
    I'd like it too. People don't want to see their taxes go up by $50 bucks but then they'll take $5-10 grand every year or two and spend it going to some other city or resort because of such amenities.

    Moreover, oil prices are down, the economy is hurting, the unemployment rate is rising, financing costs are near negative. It's time to borrow long and do some of these things.
    Last edited by KC; 17-08-2016 at 08:22 PM.

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    The city really needs vegetation maintenance. Get rid of those weeds standing shoulder high.

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    Love the idea, idiotic how little we interact with our river.
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    For once I agree on something that Iveson is proposing. This how we need to grow this City.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Love the idea, idiotic how little we interact with our river.
    I mean no malice sir, but...

    Idiotic, really? We are idiots because we don't interact with the river as much as you think we should? Why idiotic? What would be non-idiotic? Not just walking past or over it, because there are plenty of ways to do that. Not being on it with boats and canoes and kayaks and those surboards with a long pole (the name escape me)? People do that hourly every day as evidenced by the Walterdale bridge live cam. Not fishing it? Not panning for gold on it? Not letting dogs go splash around in it? How are we not interacting with it already that anything the Mayor has said will change?

    I am truly curious what's left to do except jumping into it and that's been already dissuaded with fencing in some spots that people have called "idiotic" too.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    ^There are few ways for the average person to use the water. Not everyone owns a boat. But it doesn't mean they wouldn't use one. I would love to be able to rent a canoe or kayak on the river without having to worry about getting it there.

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    As in very few places to eat and drinks with a view, few places to 'touch the water' and fewer places to sit beside it.
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  12. #12

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    @Ian That is as silly as Iveson's view. People are not idiotic in how they use the river. its not an easy river to utilize, navigate.

    We have a deep bank river with mega erosion, countless sheer cliffs that make riverside trails all but impossible in many extended areas. Its absolutely ridiculous that Iveson is voicing this at this moment, at a time where every paper in the city and news source has front page storiess on the dire state of neglect that the already established trail system is suffering.

    This is the worst possible time Iveson could voice this chasing his tail narrative on building a "Seawall"

    Iveson really loves to jam his feet in his mouth. If he's still got a publicist he bounces these things off of he needs a different one. What a halfbaked stupid idea while they can't even fund what we have.


    Next, currently we have a river valley that CAN'T be accessed from either the Macdonald Hotel stairway OR the Cloverdale pedestrian bridge. Rendering all the build up on Louise McKinley park as all for not as its difficult for most people to even get there now. Today we're out in cloverdale trying to figure out how to get from the River Valley to the Downtown due to all the closures. I HATE taking the Bellamy road route which is noisy, dirty, homeless people all around and really no other way in that area to use. We could've walked way over to SCC but often their doors are closed as well.

    I've lived here all my life and we had trouble accessing river-> downtown. The current state of affairs is unacceptable. Visitors would try to do this once and probably never return. No signs redirecting, nothing, just closures.

    Another story. We took a look at new Walterdale bridge from the old one. Apparently the thought is why replace any decking boards on the pedestrian pass on the old bridge...Frankly I've never been on a civic bridge ANYWHERE in NA where the planks were in such poor condition. I think if I jumped up and down I could break some of these boards. Memo to the city that this is not a boardwalk on solid ground where such condition might be acceptable. Its a major pedestrian bridge with quite a severe drop... The amount of boards that are loose is appalling.

    Yeah, so maybe upkeep the bare minimum of egress, entry, paths, that are already there.
    Last edited by Replacement; 17-08-2016 at 10:27 PM.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    ^There are few ways for the average person to use the water. Not everyone owns a boat. But it doesn't mean they wouldn't use one. I would love to be able to rent a canoe or kayak on the river without having to worry about getting it there.
    No kidding not everyone own a boat, poor excuse. But people do boat. There are canoe tours down the river every day. One guy was even featured in one of the newspapers recently. Has been for a long time. Average people are allowed to call him up and sign up. How witl the Mayor's idea change that?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Edmonton mayor makes push for river valley park similar to Vancouver's popular seawall
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/08/1...opular-seawall

    Edmonton Mayor Don Iveson proposed a new urban park Wednesday along the North Saskatchewan River, likening it to Vancouver's popular seawall.

    It would feature an expanded walking and biking area between Groat Road and the Walterdale Bridge, with small parks, benches and places to get down to the water. This would build on the Touch the Water project below the Hotel Macdonald, which features wide, park-like stairs and benches alongside a funicular. It is scheduled to open in the fall of 2017.

    "When people see that, they're going to say: 'This is fantastic. I want to see more of this,' " said Iveson, after a meeting to discuss River Valley Alliance capital projects for 2017 through 2022. "I want to get ahead of that and get a preliminary sense of what would be involved in extending that kind of experience."

    The River Valley Alliance is using matching funds from federal and provincial governments to connect riverside pathways right through the capital region. They envision having enhanced facilities like Iveson proposes in heavily used areas during future phases.

    But Iveson said his proposed project is needed now. "We have so many people running and biking and walking their dogs, whatever, along River Valley Road right now that it's actually getting quite congested."
    I'm all for this, though if he's using Vancouver comparables I'd like to see a Coal Harbor promenade in Lower Rossdale.
    Excellent, Iveson demonstrating some leadership! I want to see more of this kind of thinking. I think it is what people expected when they elected him.

  15. #15

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    More ranting on this stupid "seawall" proposal.

    Perhaps Iveson can ponder that in Vancouver bridges are long spanning bridges that allow seawall access underneath. For instance Burrard bridge, Granville bridge, Lions gate bridge, Georgia street bridge etc so that multiuse trail users do not have to always be impeded by bridges, lights, and the traffic they contain.

    In this city right now we are ironically completing the short span Walterdale bridge which continues to impede any bike or multiuse corridors in the area. Being an impediment to the very thing Iveson is talking about. Ironic? yeah, a bit. When this stupid bridge was planned I was stating this needed to be a longspan bridge going almost on top of power plant, Telus field, connecting right to 97ave. Instead we have a shortsighted low crossing, short span new Walterdale bridge as ineffective, and dividing, as the old one.

    We lost a chance at building more of a contiguous, unimpeded stretch of bike pathway. Its really a drag cycling on river trails and having to stop for lights on 105st which will continue now forever.

    What did I say about half baked plans?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  16. #16

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    Iveson said he wants a river valley park similar to Vancouver's seawall. He's not asking for it to be exactly the same as he no doubt can tell that's not possible. Any civic administration that advances the river valley system will have the rewards of this being reaped for years to come. Rome was not built in a day and neither will the river valley be. You are not always going to find every bridge, path, ski trail etc. in perfect condition every time you visit either. Just because you have fix existing infrastructure it does not say that the new cannot be built.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  17. #17

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    Have you even visited the Seawall? One of the great things about it is that its unimpeded by roadways, bridges, and you have free and unstopped egress all the way around Stanley Park, all around false Creek. That's a key in its popularity among users and of course the beautiful vantage points. But had they obstructed the thing with every damn bridge and roadway it sure wouldn't be the same.

    lol, right now its hardly even tenable to get from river valley to River valley road accessing from east. For years its been rerouted, blocked off and a maze of detours.

    Again ironic Iveson is talking about this now.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  18. #18

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    ^So you want all river valley work to stop because it does not meet your expectations.
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    This is a duplicate thread. It's just the stalled 1990's LMP vision rebranded "Vancouverish."
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Scrap this idea, use the money to build a weir.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Scrap this idea, use the money to build a weir.
    And a beach!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    More ranting on this stupid "seawall" proposal.

    Perhaps Iveson can ponder that in Vancouver bridges are long spanning bridges that allow seawall access underneath. For instance Burrard bridge, Granville bridge, Lions gate bridge, Georgia street bridge etc so that multiuse trail users do not have to always be impeded by bridges, lights, and the traffic they contain.

    In this city right now we are ironically completing the short span Walterdale bridge which continues to impede any bike or multiuse corridors in the area. Being an impediment to the very thing Iveson is talking about. Ironic? yeah, a bit. When this stupid bridge was planned I was stating this needed to be a longspan bridge going almost on top of power plant, Telus field, connecting right to 97ave. Instead we have a shortsighted low crossing, short span new Walterdale bridge as ineffective, and dividing, as the old one.

    We lost a chance at building more of a contiguous, unimpeded stretch of bike pathway. Its really a drag cycling on river trails and having to stop for lights on 105st which will continue now forever.

    What did I say about half baked plans?
    Wait what? Both sides of the new Walterdale will have bike lanes* that continue unimpeded under the bridge.

    *Multiuse paths, not actual bike lanes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post

    Wait what? Both sides of the new Walterdale will have bike lanes* that continue unimpeded under the bridge.

    *Multiuse paths, not actual bike lanes
    You quoted him and I read it...I fell for it.

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    That stretch along River Valley Road from groat to the walterdale is low, accessible and has a few small beaches NOW. It would make a wonderful spot to do this and bring a lot of people to the area.

    Saskatoon knows how to do it!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    More ranting on this stupid "seawall" proposal.

    Perhaps Iveson can ponder that in Vancouver bridges are long spanning bridges that allow seawall access underneath. For instance Burrard bridge, Granville bridge, Lions gate bridge, Georgia street bridge etc so that multiuse trail users do not have to always be impeded by bridges, lights, and the traffic they contain.

    In this city right now we are ironically completing the short span Walterdale bridge which continues to impede any bike or multiuse corridors in the area. Being an impediment to the very thing Iveson is talking about. Ironic? yeah, a bit. When this stupid bridge was planned I was stating this needed to be a longspan bridge going almost on top of power plant, Telus field, connecting right to 97ave. Instead we have a shortsighted low crossing, short span new Walterdale bridge as ineffective, and dividing, as the old one.

    We lost a chance at building more of a contiguous, unimpeded stretch of bike pathway. Its really a drag cycling on river trails and having to stop for lights on 105st which will continue now forever.

    What did I say about half baked plans?
    when the bridge is complete the mulituse trail will continue under the bridge on both sides unimpeded by lights or traffic.

    But why let facts get in the way of a good rant, go on!

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    I think a walkway from the Walterdale to the LRT bridge just west of the High Level would be great.
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    Vancouver contemplating a surf park in false creek


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    There really should be some serious work on the North bank between Groat and Walterdale, as it's incredibly well used and very accessible. What exactly that entails, I'm not sure. But certainly there should be a place to grab a drink or a bite, other than the lovely BC CHERRIES trailer. That thing is so bush league. Why does the city continue to issue it permits? And there should absolutely be a place to rent kayaks/canoes and/or go on guided tours of the river. Maybe have a service that lets you paddle from somewhere near Groat down to Rundle/Goldbar where they'll pick up the canoe for you. And pave the damned parking lots in that area as well.

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    THIS!
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    I agree

    But the South bank also needs major work as a return leg. I was surprised how packed the park beside (west) Kinsmen Field House is, fantastic place, accessible by everyone. It also needs some upgraded food facilities. Going down the south bank path to Groat Road Bridge is a hazard at best Most joggers go up the grade to Sask drive because the lower path along the river is ice choked and, muddy and wet into early May. Parts of the trail are often closed for repairs or under flood waters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    There really should be some serious work on the North bank between Groat and Walterdale, as it's incredibly well used and very accessible. What exactly that entails, I'm not sure. But certainly there should be a place to grab a drink or a bite, other than the lovely BC CHERRIES trailer. That thing is so bush league. Why does the city continue to issue it permits? And there should absolutely be a place to rent kayaks/canoes and/or go on guided tours of the river. Maybe have a service that lets you paddle from somewhere near Groat down to Rundle/Goldbar where they'll pick up the canoe for you. And pave the damned parking lots in that area as well.
    I would definitely like to see these at the Rossdale plant site.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    If they move the homeless , tents included, It will be fine..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    There really should be some serious work on the North bank between Groat and Walterdale, as it's incredibly well used and very accessible. What exactly that entails, I'm not sure. But certainly there should be a place to grab a drink or a bite, other than the lovely BC CHERRIES trailer. That thing is so bush league. Why does the city continue to issue it permits? And there should absolutely be a place to rent kayaks/canoes and/or go on guided tours of the river. Maybe have a service that lets you paddle from somewhere near Groat down to Rundle/Goldbar where they'll pick up the canoe for you. And pave the damned parking lots in that area as well.
    I would definitely like to see these at the Rossdale plant site.
    Buildings make more sense in Rossdale, yes.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  34. #34

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    @Medwards

    Will there be No light on 105st then and a direct and unimpeded connection with the River Valley road trail? Didn't look like that from taking a close look yesterday but good news if its happening. That would be an improvement from prior.

    Perhaps I'm being unclear. I don't mean paths on the walterdale bridge I mean the East west northbank corridor that has been cutoff since the Walterdale construction and that even prior to that construction had the trail impeded by lights on 105st before being able to hit up River Valley road trail.
    Last edited by Replacement; 18-08-2016 at 11:54 AM.
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    I think it would be a nice trail but I honestly don't believe the geology or constantly evolving geography can allow for it.

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    There will be new connections that cross under the bridge, East/west, on both sides of the river. This will mean not requiring waiting for the lights on 105th in the future, you'll have a direct under the bridge connection.

  37. #37

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    Thank you, and with apologies to the thread. From crossing old Walterdale yesterday it wasn't clear at all that the trail connection was rerouted and that it would occur directly under the bridge. That is an improvement, a design element that makes it much more enjoyable for cyclists.

    thanks again
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Golf course needs to go. Traffic lanes moved over more - maybe even and an extra lane. The river walk and river wall need to be expanded. The golf course? there are 20 more in Edmonton area to go to. We have only one small piece of river valley from Government House Park to McKinney Park...and access for the public to get to the river should be the priority.

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Golf course needs to go. Traffic lanes moved over more - maybe even and an extra lane. The river walk and river wall need to be expanded. The golf course? there are 20 more in Edmonton area to go to. We have only one small piece of river valley from Government House Park to McKinney Park...and access for the public to get to the river should be the priority.
    Ummmm.... ya no. So much history with Victoria Golf course.
    Last edited by barhonda; 18-08-2016 at 06:00 PM.

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    Edmontonians love their golf so closing Victoria Golf Course ain't gonna happen
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  41. #41

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    I'd keep the golf courses. It's the veiled and implied strip malls and parking lots that I don't want to see in the valley. McKinney is bad enough with that stupid surface parking lot, more=worse.
    Last edited by JayBee; 19-08-2016 at 06:03 AM.
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    I absolutely love this idea and feel that it's something our city has been missing for a while. Done right, it will be an excellent addition to our River Valley.

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    Nobody's asking for or implying strip malls.

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    Great, time to strip the trees out and pave the river banks, then?

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    Ah yes, I was waiting for the C2E river valley BANANA to spew out some hyperbole.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Ah yes, I was waiting for the C2E river valley BANANA to spew out some hyperbole.
    How is it hyperbole. Are you telling me it won't involve that? BTW, the fact that you must resort to personal insults already doesn't do much for your argument.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Ah yes, I was waiting for the C2E river valley BANANA to spew out some hyperbole.
    Ah Monkey & his quintessential posting style where he flings poop around & then comments about the smell...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  48. #48

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    If Mr. Mayor is looking for some Vision to hang on his lapel for the next election (October 2017) it would be reassuring if he first made something of his Vision for a bike network. We all know how that one has gone so far, but maybe it was just a practice Vision and he could hone his Vision-ing skills making something of that first, then move on to the next one.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    If Mr. Mayor is looking for some Vision to hang on his lapel for the next election (October 2017) it would be reassuring if he first made something of his Vision for a bike network. We all know how that one has gone so far, but maybe it was just a practice Vision and he could hone his Vision-ing skills making something of that first, then move on to the next one.
    "to hang on his lapel for the next election"

    Why are you trying to read something into this and cast a aspersion on the mayor for suggesting an idea? Moreover, it's his job and part of the democratic process to satisfy the electorate which doesn't just include bike path users.
    Last edited by KC; 19-08-2016 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Fixed per noodle below

  50. #50

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    I believe you meant aspersion, not dispersion.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Ah yes, I was waiting for the C2E river valley BANANA to spew out some hyperbole.
    Ah Monkey & his quintessential posting style where he flings poop around & then comments about the smell...
    Good one!

    We all need to learn to discuss the issue or idea and only the issue and idea, and just because the messenger is black or white or asian or gay or straight, moslem or jewish or christian or female or a politician or a a vested interest or... That we try hard to leave our personal predudices, racist, sexist and other views - out of view.
    Last edited by KC; 19-08-2016 at 10:39 AM.

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I believe you meant aspersion, not dispersion.
    Yes, thanks. Corrected above. Maybe was a mental slip as we cast and fling things about.

  53. #53
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    A river walk from Louis McKinney Park to the Legislature Grounds would be great, I think it would be a great idea.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Are there environmental concerns with altering the river bank? I thought a wooden post and pier structure might suffice but then soon there would be issues with people living beneath it.

    Alternatively, a path weaving in and out with added spans of view points might create the benefits of a sea wall walkway while adding the benefits of a natural landscape.

    The problem I see with things like Vancouver's seawall is that they totally destroy the natural environment. It's not neccessarily 'totally environmentally unfriendly' but it come close in some cases. Here we have a naturalized riverbank that could face obliteration just to allow people a long continuous view of the water. So, is there a compromise option?
    Last edited by KC; 19-08-2016 at 10:54 AM.

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    Wow. This made me laugh.

    But Iveson said his proposed project is needed now. "We have so many people running and biking and walking their dogs, whatever, along River Valley Road right now that it's actually getting quite congested."
    Has this guy ever used that path? I run on a regular basis from downtown, through the leg grounds, across River Valley Road and along the river to Groat and back up Victoria Park Rd on the back side of the driving range and it is anything but congested. It is the exact route he is describing. I've never had any issues with cyclists or "near misses". The only congestion that I've seen in the last couple years is in the past few weeks where Pokemon players are walking blindly in the legislature grounds. Maybe they should build a designated park for the people glued to their phones.

  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Wow. This made me laugh.

    But Iveson said his proposed project is needed now. "We have so many people running and biking and walking their dogs, whatever, along River Valley Road right now that it's actually getting quite congested."
    Has this guy ever used that path? I run on a regular basis from downtown, through the leg grounds, across River Valley Road and along the river to Groat and back up Victoria Park Rd on the back side of the driving range and it is anything but congested. It is the exact route he is describing. I've never had any issues with cyclists or "near misses". The only congestion that I've seen in the last couple years is in the past few weeks where Pokemon players are walking blindly in the legislature grounds. Maybe they should build a designated park for the people glued to their phones.
    But he said: 'actually'! How can that not be so.

  57. #57
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    I take the same route, and depending on the weather and time of day, it can fair busy. But yeah, I wouldn't say it's ever actually congested. However, given the disparate speeds between walkers, runners, and bikers and some people's inability to be aware of their surroundings, it's probably worth at least considering widening the path along that stretch.

  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    "to hang on his lapel for the next election"

    Why are you trying to read something into this and cast a aspersion on the mayor for suggesting an idea? Moreover, it's his job and part of the democratic process to satisfy the electorate which doesn't just include bike path users.
    Why do you first assume I cast aspersions?

    He's a Vision-y kind of guy, and there's an election coming, and so far as I've seen in the press or here the electorate haven't been clamoring for any vision for the valley.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    "to hang on his lapel for the next election"

    Why are you trying to read something into this and cast a aspersion on the mayor for suggesting an idea? Moreover, it's his job and part of the democratic process to satisfy the electorate which doesn't just include bike path users.
    Why do you first assume I cast aspersions?

    He's a Vision-y kind of guy, and there's an election coming, and so far as I've seen in the press or here the electorate haven't been clamoring for any vision for the valley.
    I just interpreted you choice of words that way - as the idea being generated out of self-interest and not in the interests of the city. Sorry for the misinterpretation. Personally I think we need a lot more visiony people on all fronts. All ideas should be welcome. That way new personal visions can become mass visions.


    I think Deming got it right here:



    Customers never invented anything. All they have comes from the producer. No customer asked for electric light. No customer asked for photography, or for telephones, or for telegraph. And no customer asked for pnematic tires or automobiles.

    The customer's expectations are only what any company and its competitors have taught the customer. He's a rapid learner, once he learns to expect something." -

    W. Edwards Deming, Automobile Magazine, October 1991

    And Jobs:


    It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." -

    Steve Jobs, Business Week, May 25 1998



    “It’s not about pop culture, and it’s not about fooling people, and it’s not about convincing people that they want something they don’t. We figure out what we want. And I think we’re pretty good at having the right discipline to think through whether a lot of other people are going to want it, too. That’s what we get paid to do. So you can’t go out and ask people, you know, what’s the next big [thing.] There’s a great quote by Henry Ford, right? He said, ‘If I’d have asked my customers what they wanted, they would have told me ‘A faster horse.’’’

    - Steve Jobs
    Last edited by KC; 19-08-2016 at 12:19 PM.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Golf course needs to go. Traffic lanes moved over more - maybe even and an extra lane. The river walk and river wall need to be expanded. The golf course? there are 20 more in Edmonton area to go to. We have only one small piece of river valley from Government House Park to McKinney Park...and access for the public to get to the river should be the priority.
    Are you kidding? Hope so. NO EXTRA LANES.Go enjoy it.
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    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  61. #61
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    RVR doesn't need any additional travel lanes, it functions just fine as is (backups for Westbound traffic originate all the way up Groat Road at 111 avenue). It could use a couple left turn lanes for East bound traffic to access the parking lots, golf course, and pavillion though. One left turning car during rush hour traffic can be left waiting a very long time as Westbound traffic is darn near continuous, which results in East bound traffic grinding to a halt.

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    @Edmontoncowboy^This has been available for quite some time as the multiuse trail and also some other dirt trails followed that path.

    Again its a plus that the detour to River Valley road will be no more. It will now be a very pleasurable contiguous stretch of pathway, unimpeded by roads, afairc all the way from Capilano bridge, Riverdale, LMP, Cloverdale, River valley road all the way up Mackinnon ravine. That's a very nice stretch.

    Anybody who's a cyclist appreciates how much dedicated pathways that are uninterrupted add up to enjoyment. Especially in the river valley.
    Last edited by Replacement; 19-08-2016 at 12:24 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  63. #63

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    There was an approved concept plan from August 2015 http://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plan...terchange.aspx
    that was supposed to address this, but

    There is currently no funding identified for the construction of improvements at the River Valley Road / Groat Road interchange, therefore exact construction timelines are unknown.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  64. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Nobody's asking for or implying strip malls.
    I just ******* wish you were accurate there.

    Any time any hypocritical surface parking lot lover utters the word "Forks" or "Eau Claire" or "Ottawa."

    Don't need to be a genius to see what they're saying.

    Keep the stupid strip malls in the suburbs. That ugly overpriced garbage in Louise McKinney? Too late, already there! Now we expand the ****. Aren't we a bunch of ******* geeniuseses!

    Keep the stupid surface parking lots at the big boxes. That goiter in Louise McKinney?


    #undemocratic #shortsighted
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    I'd rather they focus on fixing the suicide barriers on the High Level Bridge to make it more visually appealing and safer for cyclists. Fix the major paths they ruined before making other ones more fancy.

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I'd rather they focus on fixing the suicide barriers on the High Level Bridge to make it more visually appealing and safer for cyclists. Fix the major paths they ruined before making other ones more fancy.
    And I'd rather they focus fixing our potholes. Probably 80% of the citizens travel on our roads and these potholes unnecessarily cost us a fortune in vehicle wear and tear.

  67. #67

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    Youll never get all the potholes fixed no matter how much you throw at them.

  68. #68
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    I wish Iverson didn't treat Edmonton as if it were BC. He seems to forget we are a winter city. Is his term up yet?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I wish Iverson didn't treat Edmonton as if it were BC. He seems to forget we are a winter city. Is his term up yet?
    Why does building a more structured and prominent path system go against being a winter city?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I wish Iverson didn't treat Edmonton as if it were BC. He seems to forget we are a winter city. Is his term up yet?
    Why does building a more structured and prominent path system go against being a winter city?
    I meant in everything he says and does, not just this, sorry..posting out loud. My bad.

  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I wish Iverson didn't treat Edmonton as if it were BC. He seems to forget we are a winter city. Is his term up yet?
    Why does building a more structured and prominent path system go against being a winter city?
    Cities with more amenable weather and infrastructure result in more cyclist commuting. I would think nothing of cycling in Vancouver in January. Actually did it on Boxing day a couple years back. While given the condition of Edmontons streets and sidewalks I wouldn't do it here. Needs to be stated as well that Edmontons slurpy mix of sand snow grinds gears (literally) and causes rust like nothing else. Surprised people don't comment on this more but cycling here in the winter is just a good way to insure your bicycle needs regular maintenance. On often expensive winter bikes.

    By all means I am in favor of commuter routes anyway. Just that we have 6mths of the year where its viable for most people.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  72. #72

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    With fatbikes Edmonton has an exploding winter recreational biking community. Winter is only a limitation in those who want it to be.

  73. #73
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    ^^Riding an expensive bike in winter here is not a good idea, but a $10 chain and $15 freewheel every spring will keep a wal-mart special going for several years. The problem that riding in the brown sludge that forms at temperatures between 0°C and -15°C is kind of like riding on a beach. That nastiness is less likely to be encountered on a dedicated bike path.

    River valley trails are not good commuter routes though. Nobody wants to climb out of the valley on their way to work / school / the store. If we want multi-use trails that are popular with commuters as well as recreational users, they need to be at the top of the bank. Oh, and fix the mess they made of the one river crossing in the city that does not require climbing out of the valley.

  74. #74
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    This logic that we can't have nice things because 'winter city' has always baffled me.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^^Riding an expensive bike in winter here is not a good idea, but a $10 chain and $15 freewheel every spring will keep a wal-mart special going for several years. The problem that riding in the brown sludge that forms at temperatures between 0°C and -15°C is kind of like riding on a beach. That nastiness is less likely to be encountered on a dedicated bike path.

    River valley trails are not good commuter routes though. Nobody wants to climb out of the valley on their way to work / school / the store. If we want multi-use trails that are popular with commuters as well as recreational users, they need to be at the top of the bank. Oh, and fix the mess they made of the one river crossing in the city that does not require climbing out of the valley.
    Precisely. More trouble than its worth imo.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    This logic that we can't have nice things because 'winter city' has always baffled me.
    In many cases I'd agree, but in the case of government subsidised private operations in the River Valley, there is no way they can survive Winter without a surface parking lot (as well as the massively subsidised rent in the McKinney building).
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Edmonton mayor makes push for river valley park similar to Vancouver's popular seawall
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/08/1...opular-seawall

    Edmonton Mayor Don Iveson proposed a new urban park Wednesday along the North Saskatchewan River, likening it to Vancouver's popular seawall.

    ...

    The River Valley Alliance is using matching funds from federal and provincial governments to connect riverside pathways right through the capital region. They envision having enhanced facilities like Iveson proposes in heavily used areas during future phases.
    ...
    My first reaction was WTF. But on due consideration I like the idea more and more. As the trail is now, the river is hidden and the trail could be alongside any road. A promenade that is open to the view of the water would show the river as the jewel that it is.

    I visualize the completed project to be similar to the Victoria Promenade along 100AV from 117ST to 120ST; but greatly enhanced and expanded

    A wall that protects the river bank from erosion could be considered as a pilot project to evaluate its effectiveness in other locations that are more prone to flood and erosion; and, as such, would potentially show how to enhance and protect the trail system throughout the river valley.

    At the same time, we should learn from the shortcomings of similar projects and make it wide enough to separate various forms of traffic IE 4 metres for 2 opposing lanes for bicycles, 2 metres for 1 lane for inline skates, 2 metres for 1 lane for skateboards, 2 metres for 1 lane for joggers, 2 metres for benches, and 3 metres for pedestrians.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    In many cases I'd agree, but in the case of government subsidised private operations in the River Valley, there is no way they can survive Winter without a surface parking lot (as well as the massively subsidised rent in the McKinney building).
    As I suggested for LMP ten years ago, I suggest again, let the food trucks have the opportunity to fill the need. There is no point in spending millions to find out that we have another money-sucking white elephant.

  79. #79
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    We haven't recieved all the money we need to finish the LRT, where are we getting the money for Iverson's fancy ideas. The taxpayer is going to revolt, wait until we have a carbon tax, even less money to go round.

  80. #80

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    We have money for fancy "seawalls" and yet 1/3 of river valley trails are in bad shape?

    http://www.inews880.com/syn/110/1368...in-great-shape

  81. #81
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    The one thing that worries me is you can build all sorts of nice things by the river but one high water spring and the raging N. Sask could destroy it.

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