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Thread: Edmonton Marijuana Dispensaries

  1. #1

    Default Edmonton Marijuana Dispensaries

    Thread to discuss Edmonton's municipal plans as we progress down the legalization path. Latest article from the Journal here mentions how the city is considering restricting zoning to prevent the proliferation that Vancouver has seen. I agree it should be managed properly, but I hope to see it be privatized like liquor stores so we get choice and entrepreneurial innovation.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    But drinking liquor near a store doesn’t affect bystanders the same way a cloud of pot smoke would, Nickel said: “As an intoxicant, how are you going to deal with that?”
    If Nickel is worried that people might get intoxicated from walking by places where marijuana is being consumed, I think he can put his mind at ease. I won't say that contact-highs are mythological in the sense that unicorns are mythological, but I'd say they're a pretty rare creature in any case. If it were that easy to get a second-hand stone, you'd have a lot more people just showing up at parties weedless, and just breathing the air to get high. (Though I guess you could eventually end up with a free-rider problem.)

    Plus, he seems to be talking about people walking OUTDOORS, breathing the smoke coming out of a shop. That makes psychoactive impact even less likely.

    That said, I'm still hedging my bets on the posssibility of full legalization of recreational marijuana. I could see the whole thing getting bogged down in inter-jurisdictional squabbles, eg. if it's gonna be sold in liquor stores, a few provinces will say they don't want to do that, and the feds won't be able to force them, etc etc.

    And, if you read his statements carefully, Trudeau says that his goal in legalization is to keep it away from kids(because the black market supposedly makes it more accessible), not to make it easier for stoners to indulge. This gives him the perfect escape hatch if he wants to back down: "Upon further study, we've found that legalization might actually make it easier for kids to get stoned, so..." And then loosen the rules on medical marijuana a bit to give the impression that he's fulilling his promises.

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    That quote stood out to me as well. Either he's woefully informed on the potency of marijuana smoke, or he's fear mongering.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/randi...ct-high-2014-1

    That being said, I don't imagine legalization will permit smoking in public anyways, so it's a total non-concern. Just like you can't walk down the street drinking a six pack, nor will you be able to smoke a joint. In Nickel's example, the people consuming both the liquor and the marijuana apparently right outside the door are breaking the law, and would face ticketing or arrest. So what's the big concern in that specific example?

    In general though, I do agree that there will need to be restrictions on where the shops can open, if that's the way legalization goes. Personally, I can't stand how many awful looking liquor stores there are scattered around every nook and cranny. Which is why I think that grocery stores should be able to sell at least a limited selection of beer and wine, as that would put a fair number of the small independents out of business. For pot, I'm not sure what distribution model makes the most sense. It probably doesn't make sense to sell it in liquor stores, for a variety of reasons, but mostly because from a public health perspective it's probably best not to be selling two intoxicants in the same place. I don't think pharmacies should be selling recreation pot for the same reasons they shouldn't be selling booze or tobacco (medicinal makes sense, of course).

    So likely a dispensary model makes the most sense, but they're just so damn tacky. I was on a motorcycle trip through Washington a little over a month ago, and the sheer number of them along the highway through every town was pretty surprising to me. And it seemed like 50% of the billboards I went by were advertising for it as well. I have zero problems with recreational pot use, I just don't want to see a massive proliferation of ugly storefronts similar to what we already have with liquor.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 03-11-2016 at 03:58 PM.

  4. #4

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    I see kids/teens still drinking and smoking tobacco all the time. Legalization won't change much for pot either. I'm all for it though. Silly double standard and missed revenue opportunity for governments.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    the sheer number of them along the highway through every town was pretty surprising to me. And it seemed like 50% of the billboards I went by were advertising for it as well. I have zero problems with recreational pot use, I just don't want to see a massive proliferation of ugly storefronts similar to what we already have with liquor.
    I think we're still witnessing this because it's new. Fast forward a few years and I think it will die down, especially as it becomes common. This screams "tourists, smoke weed here!" which won't mean a thing as legalization creeps it's way into the mainstream. I imagine liquor and strippers are the same way in places where it's legal, right next to jurisdictions where it is/was not.
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  6. #6

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    Policing will be an issue.

    However, below, you'll see an example of a very poor article. It implies cause and effect without providing any data to show that the accidents were caused by smoking dope. Legalize the stuff and a whole lot more people may then use it, even more will breath it as second hand smoke, so of course, it will be in their blood. ...but at what concentration? I'd assume that they'd know that considering that there were fatalities.

    Note: I would expect more accidents and deaths in some respects and fewer deaths in other respects.

    Rocky Mountain data: Big increase in fatal crashes since pot legalized
    Jack Encarnacao Thursday, October 13, 2016
    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/loc..._pot_legalized

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    So likely a dispensary model makes the most sense, but they're just so damn tacky.
    The dispensaries I saw in Victoria looked really cool. I didn't know what they were until I asked a guy coming out of one. It just looked like a really cool storefront.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  8. #8

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    Edmonton did have a dispensary run for 10+ Years providing access to Medical Paients. MACROS - amazing people. But thats a side note. Federally after Legalization the only thing that makes sense is to allow storefront dispensaries.

    As the current model stands LPs (Licensed Producers - companies allowed to grow Medical pot) are NOT allowed to operate storefronts. All Cannabis must be sent through the mail. Also the redtape to become an LP is insane, which is why we dont have a lot more.

    I imagine Trudeau will 'flick the switch' so to say with the LPs and allow them to have storefronts OR allow any Joe Blow operate a storefront but all their product must be purchased through the already established LPs.

    Either way aside from basic zoning regulations I hope we see an abundance of Dispensaries once Legalization happens.
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    Another escape hatch for the Liberals, should they choose to dump their promise...

    http://tinyurl.com/hgqcfls

    "This legislation is going to be a model for the world. So Canadians want to ensure it's done in the safest way possible. When the new technology for testing drivers is in, we'll be implementing the laws to begin the legalization of weed!"

    In other words, not before the next election.

    (fictional quote)
    Last edited by overoceans; 10-01-2017 at 09:21 AM.

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    ^oh my, it could be decades before that technology comes... Crazy stuff, because it doesn't stop people using this drug. Just legalize it already, if the US states can, why can't Canada? I'm guessing Trudeau is struggling with because he won't be a good boy scout with the UN anymore then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^oh my, it could be decades before that technology comes... Crazy stuff, because it doesn't stop people using this drug. Just legalize it already, if the US states can, why can't Canada? I'm guessing Trudeau is struggling with because he won't be a good boy scout with the UN anymore then...

    Yeah, legalizing it at the federal level would put us at odds with a bunch of international treaties, which would kind of complicate the Liberal narrative about how virtuous Canada is for always acting multilaterally etc.

    There is a legitimate debate to be had(not that I think we should have it here) about just how detrimental marijuana is to driving; not all drugs have the same impact on spatial perception that alcohol does. And it's arguable that medicines containing opioids(some of which are OTC in Canada) would have a worse effect on driving, yet we seem to be cool with that risk.

  12. #12

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    There is the question of dosing when it comes to marijuana. Basically with alcohol, it takes approx an hour for an average person to fully metabolize one drink (1 bottle of beer, 1 shot of hard liquor, or 1 small glass of wine). Doses of prescription or OTC meds can be rationed easily as well. You cannot accurately ration or measure an active dose absorbed in inhaled smoke (or even second-hand doses).

    For example, someone can have a couple of drinks and know that they need to wait a couple of hours before they can drive. It's a pretty easy formula. But how long does someone have to wait to drive after they smoked some pot? And how do they know how much they have taken? It's not as clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    There is the question of dosing when it comes to marijuana. Basically with alcohol, it takes approx an hour for an average person to fully metabolize one drink (1 bottle of beer, 1 shot of hard liquor, or 1 small glass of wine). Doses of prescription or OTC meds can be rationed easily as well. You cannot accurately ration or measure an active dose absorbed in inhaled smoke (or even second-hand doses).

    For example, someone can have a couple of drinks and know that they need to wait a couple of hours before they can drive. It's a pretty easy formula. But how long does someone have to wait to drive after they smoked some pot? And how do they know how much they have taken? It's not as clear.
    That is a point. Gaseous inhalations and their impact are harder to quantify than their liquid counterparts.

    Though I'd imagine that, if scientists really wanted to, they could give a rating according to weight, which would be more or less accurate for the average person. Whether that would deter the kind of person who is inclinded to drive while debilitatingly stoned is another question.

    I also wonder how the war on tobacco(which I now consider to be a little overblown) is going to fare if the government allows ENTIRE SHOPS to exist for the sole purpose of selling clearly marked bags of weed, while convenience stores are still being required to hide their cigarettes behind curtained cupboards, as if it were hardcore pornography.

    And will weed be covered by future anti-smoking campaigns, or is the scientific consensus that it doesn't harm you the way tobacco does?
    Last edited by overoceans; 11-01-2017 at 09:12 AM.

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    PSAs from Colorado...

    Drive High, Get a DUI

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    I noted that their actions are being lauded by the marijuana lobby forces and they suggest that the law will be changed in their favor as an inevitability.

    That assumes a lot. How can anyone predict that the laws will be changed?
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    Actually, I think a lot of people in the "marijuana lobby" are pretty sick of Emery and his antics. Thing is, that "lobby" is a fairly diverse group, from social activists like Emery to large business like Aurora that operate within existing laws and don't want to be associated with someone like Emery. In any case, I think it's a massive waste of police and court resources to go after Emery, even if he's basically begging for it. There are far, far more pressing matters for law enforcement and the courts to concern themselves with, in light of the fact that at some point in the next year or two, recreational marijuana will be legalized.

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    @ PRT, post 16

    Well, the Liberals were elected on a promise of legalization, and are still saying they're gonna do that, with Bill Blair and Anne McLellan hashing out the details.

    But, as I've already said, I'm still hedging my bets. Part of me thinks that the procedure is gonna turn out to be too convoluted and cumbersome to implement, and will at some point be subtly abandoned.

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    I really doubt that. The genie's already out of the bottle, essentially. There is no way they can try to stuff it back in. Although it's going to be hilarious to watch Jeff Sessions attempt to in the US. Well actually, no, probably not hilarious, because it'll likely lead to thousands of lives destroyed or ended unnecessarily in a new crackdown. But hey, it'll make Sessions' masters in the private prison industry happy.

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    Liberals to announce marijuana will be legal by July 1, 2018

    This is something leaked to the CBC, not an official announcement.

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    Looks like Bill Blair is backing away from the CBC's time-line...

    link

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    I thought there was another legal-weed thread somewhere on the forum, but I can't find it. So I'll post this here...

    Medical journal calls for tighter rules on pot

    Not sure how much impact this will have on the government's plans. Medical opinion was kind of used as a rationale for legalization in the first place, so if the Liberals lose the doctors, it might make it kind of awkward for them to proceed under the previous justification. On the other hand, I've long suspected that the medical concerns were just a facade for pandering to recreational users.

    And speaking of all this, aren't the provinces supposed to be coming up with their own regulations, in preparation for next July? Anyone heard what's happening with that?
    Last edited by overoceans; 29-05-2017 at 10:30 AM.

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    Canada's police services say there is zero chance they will be ready to enforce new laws for legalized pot by next summer.
    link

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    What a load of horsecrap.

    they want the government to reconsider allowing people to grow pot at home, because it will be difficult to police and could make it easier for young people to obtain marijuana.
    We allow homebrewing of alcohol which is immeasurably worse for people & society, but somehow growing weed at home is just tooooo much.

    The police say they also need more time and money to train officers to recognize and handle drug-impaired drivers.
    WTF. Don't they do this now?

    Cops want more time to figure out how they can justify their current budgets & staffing levels in a post-prohibition world & all they're trying to do is stall until they've got their answers ready.
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    ^^How can they be not ready? They're not being asked to enforce more, they're being asked to enforce less.

    ^ I suspect that home-brewed alcohol causes far fewer problems than store-bought, and I suspect that it would be the same for Marijuana. Is "For personal use only" really that hard?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    ^ I suspect that home-brewed alcohol causes far fewer problems than store-bought, and I suspect that it would be the same for Marijuana.
    I agree.

    If someone simply wants to get boozed up, it's far easier to buy a bottle of something at the liquor store thank making it at home. It takes a lot of work, care, and patience to bew your own wine or beer. Everyone I know who does it (including myself) do it as a craft and a hobby. I envision it will be similar for people growing their own pot plants vs people who buy pot at a shop.

  27. #27

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    Apparently growing pot isn't even that easy. Keeping a plant alive, maybe, but having it grow properly, cultivating it, and curing it is apparently quite tricky. Trickier than a home brew kit, and takes months to grow.
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    Edmonton Mayor Don Iveson says the city is not looking to make a profit from marijuana sales after pot is legalized on July 1.

    But he said the city wants to make sure costs are covered for extra policing and rezoning for dispensaries, areas the city will be responsible for.

    On Friday, Iveson said municipalities have largely been left out of discussions with the federal and provincial governments.

    "They're sort of carving things up right now, and they say they're mindful of the impacts to municipalities," he said. "But we're not at the table.
    CBC

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