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Thread: Ageism to become discrimination in Alberta

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    Default Ageism to become discrimination in Alberta

    Potentially a massive step forward for family friendly housing and a more inclusive community.

    ----

    Age will soon be included as a prohibited ground of discrimination under the Alberta Human Rights Act.

    An application to include age as a discriminating factor was granted at a hearing in Edmonton Court of Queen's Bench Friday after it was unopposed by the province.

    "We can now join the rest of Canada," said lawyer Allan Garber as he left the court with seniors' advocate Ruth Adria.



    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...925515?cmp=rss
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  2. #2

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    It is good news and interesting how it was under the radar for so long. On the other hand, what about these over 55 adult only complexes that are built. Will it affect those as 'ageism' is a two way street.
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    Specialty and senior housing likely will remain exempt, but still too early to know.
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    So, are we changing the minimum voting age, etc?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It is good news and interesting how it was under the radar for so long. On the other hand, what about these over 55 adult only complexes that are built. Will it affect those as 'ageism' is a two way street.
    Isn't much of downtown residential restricted to adults only? Hence downtown is anti-family - as we've discussed on pro-downtown threads.

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    ^Doubt it. Some responsibilities come with maturity. If 5 year olds could vote Sponge Bob would be P M. Oh, on second thoughs...................
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It is good news and interesting how it was under the radar for so long. On the other hand, what about these over 55 adult only complexes that are built. Will it affect those as 'ageism' is a two way street.
    Isn't much of downtown residential restricted to adults only? Hence downtown is anti-family - as we've discussed on pro-downtown threads.
    Much of Alberta is 'adult only'...
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It is good news and interesting how it was under the radar for so long. On the other hand, what about these over 55 adult only complexes that are built. Will it affect those as 'ageism' is a two way street.
    Isn't much of downtown residential restricted to adults only? Hence downtown is anti-family - as we've discussed on pro-downtown threads.
    Your logic is broken. "Downtown" isn't anti-family. The individual buildings which are, are, and the law which allows the individual buildings to be so is, but Downtown itself clearly is not.

    Ridiculous leap.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Bingo....and....this applies city, region and Province-wide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It is good news and interesting how it was under the radar for so long. On the other hand, what about these over 55 adult only complexes that are built. Will it affect those as 'ageism' is a two way street.
    Isn't much of downtown residential restricted to adults only? Hence downtown is anti-family - as we've discussed on pro-downtown threads.
    Your logic is broken. "Downtown" isn't anti-family. The individual buildings which are, are, and the law which allows the individual buildings to be so is, but Downtown itself clearly is not.

    Ridiculous leap.
    Of course it is a ridiculous leap. Similarly the buildings aren't anti-family either. Downtown isn't a thinking human. Just as companies, cities, political parties or religions can't be attributed such characterizations, and it is actual human beings, usually anonymous humans, making the decisions, determining policy etc., gross generalizations are expedient. So we all make such ridiculous leaps all the time.
    Last edited by KC; 07-01-2017 at 10:30 AM.

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    How are the buildings not family friendly either? We have families in ours, multiples other have families. Amenity spaces, parks, nearby services and support, walkable, transit, schools, friends.

    This is not a new idea or practice.

    Come on now.
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  12. #12

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    Another thread (below) Personally I've never tried to move my family downtown so I only base my gross generalizations on what I read.


    Adults only: Parents, families looking for places to rent in downtown Edmonton

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...ntown-Edmonton

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Adults only: Parents, families looking for places to rent in downtown Edmonton
    http://metronews.ca/news/edmonton/12...town-edmonton/

    Looking at rental after rental and being turned away by landlords due to the building’s ‘no children’ policy, single mother Jodie McKague just about gave up on moving to Edmonton’s core with her daughter.

    “I think a lot of people are shocked when you say it because it’s kind of discriminatory so when you say it, people don’t really believe you. But once you start looking in downtown proper, there’s so many signs that say ‘adult only’,” she said. “It’s a really difficult thing to explain to your child as well. My daughter just doesn’t understand why a building wouldn’t want kids in it.”

    Vacancy rates have been consistently low in the city but potential tenants and local officials say that shouldn’t excuse the ‘no children’ policy found at many buildings.

    Suzanne MacLean, executive director with the Oliver Centre, says clients have struggled to find a place to live in the core that is still affordable.

    “Years ago, there was ton of family condos, family apartments. I’ve noticed the huge trends and all of the low income families got shoved out of downtown. Hopefully that changes,” she said, adding there are limited renting opportunities for families overall. “You can have a pet but you can’t have a child.”

    Representatives of the Landlord and Tenant Advisory Board say it isn’t a problem they’ve heard of but say that it is a landlord’s choice if they’re going to have an adult only building or not.

    Despite it being at the discretion of the building owner, McKague hopes that landlords consider young families to help bring new residents into downtown Edmonton.

    “I think the idea that if you’re a pet owner or if you have children that means you’re irresponsible or disruptive neighbour is really outdated and isn’t really reflective in reality,” said McKague.

  13. #13

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    Another interesting thread largely addressing the issue of inappropriate design but including this post below.


    Making a family friendly downtown - article

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...wntown-article


    Quote Originally Posted by urbanroo View Post
    I've just found this very informative thread after encountering unexpected difficulties trying to relocate my family to Edmonton. The problem already raised about a lack of 3-bedroom units is certainly something I encountered, but even worse is that so many of the units I looked at were in buildings that have restrictive covenants against children. In case you are interested, I cut and paste text (below) from a letter I wrote to the mayor about the issue, though whether he can do anything about it, I'm not sure; I'm still learning about all the different constraints to raising a family in Edmonton. We'll be moving to a condo on 104 street this fall--it wasn't ideal, but it was the best we could do. In terms of the debate above about what constitutes downtown and whether the very center of town is suitable for families, I guess it depends on the individual; my family currently lives in a very urban neighborhood (more so than anything anywhere in Canada, probably including Toronto) and we just love it. I'm not asking that Edmonton become New York or London, but city leaders should recognize that as Edmonton continues to mature, it will attract families who value urban living.

    Dear Mayor Iveson,

    [...]

    I grew up in Edmonton during the 1990s. I left the city for university and have had the opportunity, through work and study, to live in some of the world’s most dynamic urban centers: London, Paris, Osaka, San Francisco, and most recently Chicago. I have, however, always called Edmonton home and it was thus with great excitement that my young family found out we would be moving back to Edmonton this fall. Since my suburban, car-centric upbringing I have grown to value immensely the virtues of pedestrianized urban living: this is true in terms of health and recreation; the environment; finances; the prospects of small businesses; community sociability; and overall convenience and quality of life. This conviction has become even stronger as I’ve become a husband and father. I can’t think of anything more annoying than having to strap a struggling toddler into a car seat whenever we want to do groceries or go out for lunch. In addition, though I realize I might be in the minority on this point (old slogans like “Albertans love their cars” have an almost talismanic power), I find the climate and snowfall in Edmonton to be particularly ill-suited to having to drive everywhere (Scandinavia demonstrates the virtues of urban, pedestrian living in a cold climate). Why drive on ice and snow to an enormous parking lot (South Edmonton Common comes to mind) only to have to walk the same distance to a shop or restaurant than one would have to in a dense urban environment?

    When we recently visited Edmonton on a house-hunting trip, we accordingly wanted to live in the downtown core or in Oliver, where we would be able to continue the lifestyle that we so value. In particular we were attracted to the Grandin area for its high-density residential development, its leafy and salubrious streets, its proximity to the LRT and to our wonderful river valley and its many green spaces. There was, however, a recurring problem that persistently frustrated out attempts to find a home: age restrictive covenants. Despite the fact that there are very few three-bedroom condos in the city, we were happy to make do and purchase a two-bedroom condo, and we found several that we liked. One, in particular (in the Grandin Manor) we fell in love with. But in each case we were stymied by “adult only” restrictions. This is something I have never encountered in any other city. On the one hand I recognize the need for assisted living homes for the elderly, but I am totally perplexed by the fact that the majority of homes we looked at in Edmonton had restrictions against children. I find the legality of all this rather dubious, though I am not qualified professionally to comment. What I do know is that such restrictions serve to impoverish an urban community. Children are the lifeblood of any society, they are the future, they are what most people, at some point in their lives, come to value above all else. A community that prevents children from living in it is bound, literally, to be sterile. It will be a place void of any vibrancy or dynamism. Segregated cities are always the more impoverished for it: this applies to race and social class, but it also applies to age. Diversity is almost always a virtue, and if downtown Edmonton is to become a dynamic, livable community, it is vital that city leaders do everything possible to lift any sort of restriction that prevents families from living in the core of our city.

    [...]

  14. #14

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    While this is a step in the right direction to ending housing discrimination against families, according to a response I received from Edmonton-Centre MLA (David Shepherd) after this news broke, it's not so simple.

    According to him:
    It’s important to note, however, that the definition of ‘age’ in the Alberta Human Rights Act (AHRA) is “18 years or older.” This is common in most jurisdictions across Canada, though B.C. defines it as 19 and older and Ontario lowers it to 16 in regards to housing. And given that adult-only condominiums have previously argued that they aren’t discriminating on the basis of family status (i.e. – a parent-child relationship) but on the basis of age, it may require a court or human rights challenge to clearly define the new precedent.
    He has however assured me he will be keeping in touch with the minister as these changes to the AHRA are being drafted to ensure that families (like my own) do not experience discrimination in housing options. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
    Last edited by stevester; 07-01-2017 at 11:08 AM.

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    That's correct, however it just needs a few new families to challenge it and force the issue. We have and will be requesting this to occur and have a few willing participants.
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    ive got a family in my one condo right now which i didnt think id ever do. So far theyve been awesome tenents but i have to play devils advocate when i say it will be very easy for me to deny a family from living in my properties with zero recourse from anyone.

    I dont get how we can set laws that allow kids in any building except +55 buildings or senior homes. There are +45 buildings or +35 even. If your protecting discrimination based on age it needs to cover all ages not just a select few.

    This will be the first defence by anyone challenging a human rights complaint based on age.. its not discriminatory for 55+ buildings so why would it be for an 18+.

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    Exactly.
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    About time!

    Downtown parents seek to ban adults-only buildings

    BY ELISE STOLTE

    Court ruling
    The court case had nothing to do with children. In March 2016, Ruth Maria Adria challenged Alberta's Human Rights Act, saying it lets people discriminate against seniors when renting or selling, which is unconstitutional.

    Court of Queen's Bench Justice R.P. Belzil agreed and gave Alberta one year to rewrite the act to prevent discrimination based on age. Alberta Justice chose not to fight the ruling.

    All that's left for Alberta Justice to decide is whether it should include exemptions.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/04/0...only-buildings
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    ^I think that's ridiculous. Are we going to force seniors homes to accept children living there as well? If people want to live in a building that doesn't allow children, that should be their choice. You shouldn't have to live with anyone you don't want to, just because some urban hipsters think your lifestyle isn't as perfect as theirs. If you don't like the buildings policies, on pets, or children, or smoking, or whatever, don't live there. Its likely not a place that wants you anyway.

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    There will be exceptions, as stated in the article. Age is no different than race. What is ridiculous is that this is coming up in 2017.

    Discrimination re goods, services, accommodation, facilities
    4 No person shall
    (a) deny to any person or class of persons any goods, services,
    accommodation or facilities that are customarily available to
    the public, or
    (b) discriminate against any person or class of persons with
    respect to any goods, services, accommodation or facilities
    that are customarily available to the public,
    because of the race, religious beliefs, colour, gender, gender
    identity, gender expression, physical disability, mental disability,
    ancestry, place of origin, marital status, source of income, family
    status or sexual orientation of that person or class of persons or of
    any other person or class of persons.
    RSA 2000 cH-14 s4;2009 c26 s4;2015 c18 s3
    Discrimination re tenancy
    5 No person shall
    (a) deny to any person or class of persons the right to occupy as
    a tenant any commercial unit or self-contained dwelling unit
    that is advertised or otherwise in any way represented as
    being available for occupancy by a tenant, or
    (b) discriminate against any person or class of persons with
    respect to any term or condition of the tenancy of any
    commercial unit or self-contained dwelling unit,
    because of the race, religious beliefs, colour, gender, gender
    identity, gender expression, physical disability, mental disability,
    ancestry, place of origin, marital status, source of income, family
    status or sexual orientation of that person or class of persons or of
    any other person or class of persons.
    RSA 2000 cH-14 s5;2009 c26 s45;2015 c18 s3
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    ^Age isn't included in that. It is ridiculous that people can't set by condo rules based on age. But, if stupid hipster families want to try and force their way into living with people who collectively have decided they don't want children, all credit to them, I'm sure they are going to have a happy life in that building (not).

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    Thank goodness none of my revenue properties are vacant. As a landlord, not really in favour of anything that restricts my ability to do what I choose with my own private property.
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    ^Oh, but think of the children - you have to love them and accept them, even if you own a slum / crack dwelling that isn't suitable for a child, or your other tenants you know are noisy and like to party (which IMO we should have the right to do without having to worry about kids, if we choose a building that allows that). So you have to take them, and have to deal with the constant noise complaints or crying babies, or too loud stereos waking crying babies, because its for the "good of downtown". I just don't get why some prudes try so hard to ban sports bars, and now also, sanitize all condos (even when the residents collectively don't want that) to the point where nothing fun for adults can happen downtown anymore. You don't make a lively / exciting / big city downtown where young adults can let their hair down and party, by turning every building into a vision of what exists in a family suburb / hick town center.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 09:49 AM.

  24. #24

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    It's all mostly irrelevant - rights are rights and the law decides the boundaries. There's always been excuses made to perpetuate discrimination and/or exclude others. Men only clubs, government etc. White only buildings, restaurants, bus seats, religion or skin colour limiting neighbourhoods...

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Age isn't included in that. It is ridiculous that people can't set by condo rules based on age. But, if stupid hipster families want to try and force their way into living with people who collectively have decided they don't want children, all credit to them, I'm sure they are going to have a happy life in that building (not).
    Collectively? I don't know if it works that way. Is there that much choice or is it the building owner/manager setting a policy and so the only people living there are the ones that happened to meet the criteria? Or is everyone seeking out age restricted buildings?

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? Is Contours discriminatory? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.
    Or bathrooms...

    Building owners or managers may be able to post the ages of the residents and people looking to buy or rent there could then choose / profile the building and decide themselves what they want to do. This takes the choice away from management and puts it in the hands of the consumer.

    Anyway, you're suggesting all kids are noisy, etc. yet you say that you want to be able to crank up your own music. So what about the people that don't want a loud noisy adult neighbour? Or don't like certain ethic smelling foods (like warmed over pizza)... as I've stated, I don't mind kids or adults running around having fun, but I really don't care for obnoxious swearing loud music playing, drug smoking kids or adults - even though they are often just emitting nonsensical noises and meaningless words, I still would rather be around happy kids and adults rather than miserable people. However, I don't have that choice.
    Last edited by KC; 05-04-2017 at 10:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Age isn't included in that. It is ridiculous that people can't set by condo rules based on age. But, if stupid hipster families want to try and force their way into living with people who collectively have decided they don't want children, all credit to them, I'm sure they are going to have a happy life in that building (not).
    Collectively? I don't know if it works that way. Is there that much choice or is it the building owner/manager setting a policy and so the only people living there are the ones that happened to meet the criteria? Or is everyone seeking out age restricted buildings?

    I want 18 plus..no kids!

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Age isn't included in that. It is ridiculous that people can't set by condo rules based on age. But, if stupid hipster families want to try and force their way into living with people who collectively have decided they don't want children, all credit to them, I'm sure they are going to have a happy life in that building (not).
    Collectively? I don't know if it works that way. Is there that much choice or is it the building owner/manager setting a policy and so the only people living there are the ones that happened to meet the criteria? Or is everyone seeking out age restricted buildings?

    I want 18 plus..no kids!
    Well, if I were to stereotype a group, I'd say I don't want IQs under 130. I'm ok with intelligent, thinking people no matter what their age, race, hair colour, sex, height, weight, looks, language...

  30. #30

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    ^join Mensa then, and find some people to live with. Or do people want to ban that as well?

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^join Mensa then, and find some people to live with. Or do people want to ban that as well?
    I couldn't get in. Just saying I don't care to live with people 'stupider' than me. - or many a lot smarter than me. On a good day I might hit 90

    Anyway, any of these arbitrary categorizations should been seen as tongue in cheek because you simply can't effectively generalize and typecast and expect to get great results.

    Basically people don't get to decide who they live with and that's generally good. When it comes to many rules, it's not a consensus but rather some owner manager board member(s) making the choice for everyone else.

    Moreover, what problems do such age restrictions actually solve? No kids, yes, but you still get the noisy older / adult people, the yelling and domestic disputes, the noisy vehicles, etc.
    Last edited by KC; 05-04-2017 at 10:40 AM.

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    The idea that people have to sell or move out of their apartment or condo if they get pregnant and want to build a family IN THEIR community is unfathomable.
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  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? Is Contours discriminatory? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.
    Exactly. People should be allowed to make choices (i.e. to have a women-only gym, join a women-only gym, to offer adult-only living to their tenants, or to live in an adult only building, etc.). Taking away people's choices is wrong.

  34. #34

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    Wonder if non-refundable per-child deposits will be allowed, like some buildings charge for pets. I'd be a lot more amenable to letting kids live in my revenue properties if the extra wear & tear was proactively taken care of. That & continued enforcement of all the condo bylaws without any provisions for the "but they're just kids" excuse or other parental false entitlements.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The idea that people have to sell or move out of their apartment or condo if they get pregnant and want to build a family IN THEIR community is unfathomable.
    The idea that someone chooses to live in an Adult only building and then decides to have a child (pregnant, or adoption, or divorce settlement, or whatever) and expects everybody else IN THEIR community, to have to accept that EVEN THOUGH THEY AGREED OTHERWISE, is unfathomable. By the same logic, I could rent a non-smoking residence, and then decide to take up smoking, and DEMAND that the landlord accommodate my choice because SMOKERS ARE A CLASS OF PEOPLE who shouldn't be discriminated against. Or I could live in a non-pet building and get a pet and DEMAND that the landlord accommodate that.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 11:29 AM.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? Is Contours discriminatory? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?

    Realize you're going for hyperbole there but real unpleasant of you to invoke child abuse as a primary argument.

    you're opposing kids and families on the basis of not wanting to hear child abuse, as if that's what every family does.

    That's a low blow to families.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?
    I have kids and they stay with me in my downtown condo sometimes. That's because I CHOSE TO PURCHASE a condo that allows kids. Its no different from CHOSING to live in a condo that allows pets, or doesn't allow pets. When I was in my 20's at a different point in my life, I made very different choices - I think its important people have the option to CHOSE to live in an adult only building if they want that.

    As to my example, its unfortunate that offends you, but yes, that's what you do hear in condos with children sometimes, not every family brings up kids the way that I think they should. Not having to interact with kids who are badly behaved or badly treated by their parents, or just culturally differently treated, is one of many reasons why some adults make the choice to live in adult buildings.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 11:33 AM.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The idea that people have to sell or move out of their apartment or condo if they get pregnant and want to build a family IN THEIR community is unfathomable.
    Wait, whats this, we're agreeing on something. Its not April 1 either..

    But yep. Bang on.

    Its UNNATURAL for any society, and culture to exist without children, kids, family. Of which human kind, doesn't exist without it. People look at me as a curmudgeon, and I get that, but I got welcoming arms to any children and families moving into my area or next door. Those are the people I WANT next door. Much more than some cretins that think a house is a nonstop party pad front yard nightclub and everybody should just go with it.

    Bring on the kids and families, you're welcome in the Mill hood.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? Is Contours discriminatory? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.
    Exactly. People should be allowed to make choices (i.e. to have a women-only gym, join a women-only gym, to offer adult-only living to their tenants, or to live in an adult only building, etc.). Taking away people's choices is wrong.
    We all want more choice, but the point I've been trying to make is that we still don't get much say in choices. Someone else is coming up with nonsensical categories and it's from those we get to choose. Racism, discrimination is all about some thoughtless people trying to define for the rest of us a bunch of negative characteristics to slap as a label on a group of other people. Same for many age related labels. So, often your choice has little to do with your actual needs.

    Noodle is worried about kid related damage but we've had years of kids and dogs in our house, but it was the maid services over the years that have put the most damage on our furniture and cabinetry. However, I do have a nice little pink heart permanently drawn on a white dining room chair. However to me it dramatically increased that chair's intrinsic value.
    Last edited by KC; 05-04-2017 at 11:34 AM.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?
    I have kids and they stay with me in my downtown condo sometimes. That's because I CHOSE TO PURCHASE a condo that allows kids. Its no different from CHOSING to live in a condo that allows pets, or doesn't allow pets. When I was in my 20's at a different point in my life, I made very different choices - I think its important people have the option to CHOSE to live in an adult only building if they want that.
    I think for Seniors I could see that. But tbh honest if a building was so "Adult" that it wouldn't be appropriate for kids it sure wouldn't want to be where I lived either. That's jmo of course.

    In general though I think as a society we need to get over this developing kid and child and baby dislike where everybody stares at the family with the crying kid in a restaurant, or stares at the mother breastfeeding as they have every right to do. We've strangely become a society that is learning to dislike babies, kids, mothers, families. That's pretty weird imo. Again we don't exist without families, we are not here on Earth without families. Do we forget that once we are adults.

    All a society does, all it is, is a result of children and families. Society is nothing but that.

    Hey, I was young once, liked to party a bit too much, lived in an apartment, but having mature adults around, having families around, that was a bonus. It was a stopcheck to keeping things in control, keeping a party from getting too big too loud, too frequent. I liked that we lived in an all ages building. It was a healthy control, for all. When I was in my 20's probably a bad idea to live in a party area where anything goes. I avoided living in frat houses for that kind of reason.
    Last edited by Replacement; 05-04-2017 at 11:40 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    We all want more choice, but the point I've been trying to make is that we still don't get much say in choices. Someone else is coming up with nonsensical categories and it's from those we get to choose.
    We do get say, we get the choice to live in building A, or B or C. And when we live in Building A or B or C, we get to attend condo board meetings, we can even run for the board. Most buildings have the ability to have a building wide vote to change fundamental rules.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I think for Seniors I could see that.
    Why not young adults? Why do I have to be limited on how loud I play my stereo during the day, because there is a baby next door, and parents who get mad about it? I know when I was in my 20's I lived in building where we partied every night and I had to deal with constant complaints from a family with a small child next door. We made their life hell, but at that age, I didn't care, and I don't expect my kids at that age would either (they don't live in your and Ian's hipster utopian society of perfect respect). Who are you, or they, to say my lifestyle was wrong at that age? Who are you to say what ages its ok to want to live close to kids, and what age its not ok? These rules on adult buildings are there for a variety of reasons, including to avoid conflict, which I think is a good thing, I wish I had had the option of adult only when I was younger, and I will want it when I am older.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 11:44 AM.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?
    I have kids and they stay with me in my downtown condo sometimes. That's because I CHOSE TO PURCHASE a condo that allows kids. Its no different from CHOSING to live in a condo that allows pets, or doesn't allow pets. When I was in my 20's at a different point in my life, I made very different choices - I think its important people have the option to CHOSE to live in an adult only building if they want that.
    I think for Seniors I could see that. But tbh honest if a building was so "Adult" that it wouldn't be appropriate for kids it sure wouldn't want to be where I lived either. That's jmo of course.

    In general though I think as a society we need to get over this developing kid and child and baby dislike where everybody stares at the family with the crying kid in a restaurant, or stares at the mother breastfeeding as they have every right to do. We've strangely become a society that is learning to dislike babies, kids, mothers, families. That's pretty weird imo. Again we don't exist without families, we are not here on Earth without families. Do we forget that once we are adults.

    All a society does, all it is, is a result of children and families. Society is nothing but that.
    My daughter is this incredibly fun loving creative playful perpetually happy kid (except when she had to be a good little robot and sit still and do boring tasks). Her friends are mostly great kids too. A niece of the same elementary school age is near off the charts intelligent, and I'd rather kids like this be living around me than say a former neighbour that would idle his smelly diesel truck for half an hour every morning, verbally bash natives and other ethnic people, or the smokers that would toss their cigarette butts over the side fence into our yard. To me, adults simply present a far wider spectrum of negative or distasteful habits than kids mostly having fun or at worst balking at adopting societies rules.

    Rarely for me does a day go by where I don't see someone spit. Just this morning a lady walked past me in my vehicle and spat on the side walk. Kids doing that - it's rare.
    Last edited by KC; 05-04-2017 at 11:49 AM.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I think for Seniors I could see that.
    Why not young adults? Why do I have to be limited on how loud I play my stero during the day, because there is a baby next door, and parents who get mad about it? I know when I was in my 20's I lived in building where we partied every night and I had to deal with constant complaints from a family with a small child next door. Who are you, or they, to say my lifestyle was wrong at that age? Who are you to say what ages its ok to want to live close to kids, and what age its not ok? These rules are there to avoid conflict, which I think is a good thing, I wish I had had the option of adult only when I was younger, and I will want it when I am older.
    In my line of work I've seen party building, seen crack buildings, with all their resident troubles and like any party district things can get very out of control in a building with no societal constraints. As I mentioned in my post edit all ages society contact within a building or area provides that healthy constraint. It isn't good for anybody to party too much, too long, and such buildings get that atmosphere going until the police come. Invariably people these days can't handle excess drugs and alcohol continually. Maybe they never could. Problems, a lot of them, occur. That's where you would want to live and preserve as a sanctity?

    Those are the worst places that first responders like me fear to tread. The last building you want to go in as part of an investigation or intervention is a building with people with heads full of substances. Trust me on that much. I've done if for decades. These very buildings you mention are every first responders nightmare. You leave wondering how people could even choose to live that way.

    Realize I am being consistent with this as well. I abhor party districts, drinking districts. I think they are fraught with inevitable trouble and post decline after a couple decades of booze/drugs cash registers. Excess doesn't build society, it deconstructs it.
    Last edited by Replacement; 05-04-2017 at 11:54 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    In my line of work I've seen party building, seen crack buildings,

    ..

    Realize I am being consistent with this as well. I abhor party districts, drinking districts. I think they are fraught with inevitable trouble and post decline after a couple decades of booze cash registers. Excess doesn't build society, it deconstructs it.
    Yeah I get it, supposedly all the crack buildings will disappear if kids live in them (I'd better give up crack because little joey might smell it next door), all the bars close, and we all go to church every Sunday. Glad that's your and Ian's dream of utopia, its not mine, and forcing it on me, or others, because it offends your values, is not going to work.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 11:53 AM.

  46. #46
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    Kids in a condo, where do they run and play? Sad.!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?
    I have kids and they stay with me in my downtown condo sometimes. That's because I CHOSE TO PURCHASE a condo that allows kids. Its no different from CHOSING to live in a condo that allows pets, or doesn't allow pets. When I was in my 20's at a different point in my life, I made very different choices - I think its important people have the option to CHOSE to live in an adult only building if they want that.
    I think for Seniors I could see that. But tbh honest if a building was so "Adult" that it wouldn't be appropriate for kids it sure wouldn't want to be where I lived either. That's jmo of course.

    In general though I think as a society we need to get over this developing kid and child and baby dislike where everybody stares at the family with the crying kid in a restaurant, or stares at the mother breastfeeding as they have every right to do. We've strangely become a society that is learning to dislike babies, kids, mothers, families. That's pretty weird imo. Again we don't exist without families, we are not here on Earth without families. Do we forget that once we are adults.

    All a society does, all it is, is a result of children and families. Society is nothing but that.
    My daughter is this incredibly fun loving creative playful perpetually happy kid (except when she had to be a good little robot and sit still and do boring tasks). Her friends are mostly great kids too. A niece of the same elementary school age is near off the charts intelligent, and I'd rather kids like this be living around me than say a former neighbour that would idle his smelly diesel truck for half an hour every morning, verbally bash natives and other ethnic people, or the smokers that would toss their cigarette butts over the side fence into our yard. To me, adults simply present a far wider spectrum of negative or distasteful habits than kids mostly having fun or at worst balking at adopting societies rules.

    Rarely for me does a day go by where I don't see someone spit. Just this morning a lady walked past me in my vehicle and spat on the side walk. Kids doing that - it's rare.

    Ugh!Where do you live?....I never see this behaviour.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids in a condo, where do they run and play? Sad.!
    Ask Eric Clapton, super sad. I try to keep my kids off the balcony.

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I think for Seniors I could see that.
    Why not young adults? Why do I have to be limited on how loud I play my stereo during the day, because there is a baby next door, and parents who get mad about it? I know when I was in my 20's I lived in building where we partied every night and I had to deal with constant complaints from a family with a small child next door. We made their life hell, but at that age, I didn't care, and I don't expect my kids at that age would either (they don't live in your and Ian's hipster utopian society of perfect respect). Who are you, or they, to say my lifestyle was wrong at that age? Who are you to say what ages its ok to want to live close to kids, and what age its not ok? These rules on adult buildings are there for a variety of reasons, including to avoid conflict, which I think is a good thing, I wish I had had the option of adult only when I was younger, and I will want it when I am older.
    "We made their life hell, but at that age, I didn't care, and I don't expect my kids at that age would either..."

    Somehow that's not surprising to me.
    Like father like child...

    Hmm so, I may have to rethink my position.


    How old were you? Under 18?


    Maybe we need empathy tests and maturity and emotional intelligence restrictions rather than age.
    Last edited by KC; 05-04-2017 at 12:03 PM.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids in a condo, where do they run and play? Sad.!
    Ask Eric Clapton, super sad. I try to keep my kids off the balcony.


    My grandchildren don't go on ours..smh.

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    In my line of work I've seen party building, seen crack buildings,

    ..

    Realize I am being consistent with this as well. I abhor party districts, drinking districts. I think they are fraught with inevitable trouble and post decline after a couple decades of booze cash registers. Excess doesn't build society, it deconstructs it.
    Yeah I get it, supposedly all the crack buildings will disappear if kids live in them (I'd better give up crack because little joey might smell it next door), all the bars close, and we all go to church every Sunday. Glad that's your and Ian's dream of utopia, its not mine, and forcing it on me, or others, because it offends your values, is not going to work.
    Countless neighborhoods around the world have been improved through moderate gentrification efforts, allowing different people to move in, allowing families to move in, allowing individuals that care about the community in which they exist to move in. Every big city has stories like this. Where communities are being revitalized and improved through the impetus of family oriented living, play, facility, and lifestyle. In Edmonton I would cite Alberta Avenue which still needs a lot of work but with a growing number of families in there fighting for a better way of life for that whole community. With wonderful festivals like Deep Freeze and Kaleido springing from those efforts. I've done a lot of work in the area. I see the benefits, the improvements, I see even longterm addicts buying into it, trying to adjust their lifestyle, engaging in harm reduction and starting to get healthier. Because they see a community of the living around them.

    Theres nothing worse for substance abuse than to surrounded with substance abuse. For anybody. Communities implode that way, they don't grow.

    Substance use doesn't offend my values. I'm actually an everything in moderation, live and let live fellow that has NEVER had any escalating problems with neighbors. Because I manage and nurture good family relations (wish I knew how to do that better online, haha)

    The thing that substance abuse offends is your liver. I'm saying yours figuratively.
    Last edited by Replacement; 05-04-2017 at 12:04 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? Is Contours discriminatory? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?

    Realize you're going for hyperbole there but real unpleasant of you to invoke child abuse as a primary argument.

    you're opposing kids and families on the basis of not wanting to hear child abuse, as if that's what every family does.

    That's a low blow to families.

    I raised my family .Can't I choose some quiet time now?

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Countless neighborhoods around the world have been improved through moderate gentrification efforts, allowing different people to move in, allowing families to move in, allowing individuals that care about the community in which they exist to move in.
    I call BS - a lot of the worst crack dens are in quaint little neighborhoods in small towns , or places of suburban bliss (like the working class neighborhood in the movie "the fighter"). Kids sadly grow up in them too. It has nothing to do with adult buildings.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Age isn't included in that. It is ridiculous that people can't set by condo rules based on age. But, if stupid hipster families want to try and force their way into living with people who collectively have decided they don't want children, all credit to them, I'm sure they are going to have a happy life in that building (not).
    Collectively? I don't know if it works that way. Is there that much choice or is it the building owner/manager setting a policy and so the only people living there are the ones that happened to meet the criteria? Or is everyone seeking out age restricted buildings?

    I want 18 plus..no kids!
    Well, if I were to stereotype a group, I'd say I don't want IQs under 130. I'm ok with intelligent, thinking people no matter what their age, race, hair colour, sex, height, weight, looks, language...


    Your choice!

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    Some people in this thread have never known a colicky baby that cries for hours on end, so you don't have the energy to work, just sleep!

  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? Is Contours discriminatory? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?

    Realize you're going for hyperbole there but real unpleasant of you to invoke child abuse as a primary argument.

    you're opposing kids and families on the basis of not wanting to hear child abuse, as if that's what every family does.

    That's a low blow to families.

    I raised my family .Can't I choose some quiet time now?
    You may be getting more quiet now but you don't seem to be at peace with yourself. Maybe having kids around again would make you more empathetic.

  57. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I think for Seniors I could see that.
    Why not young adults? Why do I have to be limited on how loud I play my stereo during the day, because there is a baby next door, and parents who get mad about it? I know when I was in my 20's I lived in building where we partied every night and I had to deal with constant complaints from a family with a small child next door. We made their life hell, but at that age, I didn't care, and I don't expect my kids at that age would either (they don't live in your and Ian's hipster utopian society of perfect respect). Who are you, or they, to say my lifestyle was wrong at that age? Who are you to say what ages its ok to want to live close to kids, and what age its not ok? These rules on adult buildings are there for a variety of reasons, including to avoid conflict, which I think is a good thing, I wish I had had the option of adult only when I was younger, and I will want it when I am older.
    What's with you keep stating wanting to play loud music every day. That to me would be more annoying than some baby or some kids playing. You make it sound like in adult buildings anything goes (except kids). Don't you think if you played loud music and partied the other adult tenants in the building would not be telling you to STFU or do you think they would all make a bee line to your suite to party along with you. My guess is they would be calling the cops as you would be deemed a noisy tenant. It seems the adults in your world are noisier than any kids. Playing loud music, parties, smoking dope. Who's sounding like a kid, you are.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Countless neighborhoods around the world have been improved through moderate gentrification efforts, allowing different people to move in, allowing families to move in, allowing individuals that care about the community in which they exist to move in.
    I call BS - a lot of the worst crack dens are in quaint little neighborhoods in small towns , or places of suburban bliss (like the working class neighborhood in the movie "the fighter"). Kids sadly grow up in them too. It has nothing to do with adult buildings.
    You're calling bs and citing movies as evidence in the same post and phrase.

    Oh my lord.

    Theres really no response required is there?

    These are only your opinions. You don't really have any substantiated view on the topic. Which your posts are illustrating.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I think for Seniors I could see that.
    Why not young adults? Why do I have to be limited on how loud I play my stereo during the day, because there is a baby next door, and parents who get mad about it? I know when I was in my 20's I lived in building where we partied every night and I had to deal with constant complaints from a family with a small child next door. We made their life hell, but at that age, I didn't care, and I don't expect my kids at that age would either (they don't live in your and Ian's hipster utopian society of perfect respect). Who are you, or they, to say my lifestyle was wrong at that age? Who are you to say what ages its ok to want to live close to kids, and what age its not ok? These rules on adult buildings are there for a variety of reasons, including to avoid conflict, which I think is a good thing, I wish I had had the option of adult only when I was younger, and I will want it when I am older.
    What's with you keep stating wanting to play loud music every day. That to me would be more annoying than some baby or some kids playing. You make it sound like in adult buildings anything goes (except kids). Don't you think if you played loud music and partied the other adult tenants in the building would not be telling you to STFU or do you think they would all make a bee line to your suite to party along with you. My guess is they would be calling the cops as you would be deemed a noisy tenant. It seems the adults in your world are noisier than any kids. Playing loud music, parties, smoking dope. Who's sounding like a kid, you are.
    Somebody cue the beastie boys video. That's how I read moas post.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Playing loud music, parties, smoking dope. Who's sounding like a kid, you are.
    You sound like the geriatric you are - there are senior buildings for you. I like exciting noisy, fun downtowns. I don't like sleepy suburban villages. That's a choice I made, IanO wants to take it away from me and others.

  61. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Men only clubs
    Are you going to force womens only gyms to accept men? Is Contours discriminatory? This isn't about discrimination, its about individual rights to choose where you live. I should have the right, if I want, to live in a building that doesn't allow children, so that I can blast my stereo and have loud parties, and don't have to listen to babies crying, and kids getting beaten next door.
    Oh my. Did you hate kids and families this much when you were a kid?

    Realize you're going for hyperbole there but real unpleasant of you to invoke child abuse as a primary argument.

    you're opposing kids and families on the basis of not wanting to hear child abuse, as if that's what every family does.

    That's a low blow to families.

    I raised my family .Can't I choose some quiet time now?
    This is Edmonton, How quiet do you want it?

    just jk around.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  62. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You're calling bs and citing movies as evidence in the same post and phrase.
    Movie is a true story. I know you think nothing bad happens in suburbs and small villages, and places where their are no bars, but that's not the way the world is.

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Playing loud music, parties, smoking dope. Who's sounding like a kid, you are.
    You sound like the geriatric you are. I like exciting noisy, fun downtowns. I don't like sleepy suburban villages. That's a choice I made, IanO wants to take it away from me and others.
    You should buy a big noisy bike with chopped mufflers and parade up and down Whyte Ave and you might find some of your kind. Fight for your right to party!


    What a hill to die on. Literally.

    Its your liver.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  64. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    You're calling bs and citing movies as evidence in the same post and phrase.
    Movie is a true story. I know you think nothing bad happens in suburbs and small villages, and places where their are no bars, but that's not the way the world is.
    People thought "Precious" was a true story. Which is apt as your view on this is precious.

    It is possible to actually have a substantiated view on community renewal, which is a well established civic policy practiced by informed administrations and even in Edmonton. Look, I've been providing direct in homeservice to people in the neighborhoods for decades seeing what few people see out there. I can basically tell you at any given time which areas/communities are getting better, which are getting worse.

    In response you've seen a movie that encompasses what I see in any home visit over 30 years of being a community and family intervention worker.

    That sounds like balanced background in which to have an informed discussion...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Playing loud music, parties, smoking dope. Who's sounding like a kid, you are.
    You sound like the geriatric you are - there are senior buildings for you. I like exciting noisy, fun downtowns. I don't like sleepy suburban villages. That's a choice I made, IanO wants to take it away from me and others.
    Nice try but WRONG. In your world it seems you want to play loud music and party whenever you want but gawd forbid the kid next door raising his/her voice. Kids are not the enemy in these cases. Your the one hollering about noisy kids not me. Maybe you should look at your own life while your sitting in the solitude your gawds quiet waiting room in your downtown adult only building. That's what adult only buildings remind me of, gumudgeons, people who are too deaf to hear the traffic and have one foot in the grave.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    That's what adult only buildings remind me of, gumudgeons, people who are too deaf to hear the traffic and have one foot in the grave.
    Better ban those buildings then. That will make all the people nice like you, and per Replacement, there will be no more drug or drinking problems anywhere.

  67. #67

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    Who woulda thought it: Kids, the enemy of the people.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    That's what adult only buildings remind me of, gumudgeons, people who are too deaf to hear the traffic and have one foot in the grave.
    Better ban those buildings then. That will make all the people nice like you, and per Replacement, there will be no more drug or drinking problems anywhere.
    Geez if we banned them where would people like you go to live.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  69. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Who woulda thought it: Kids, the enemy of the people.
    I have kids.

    I also am not opposed to adult-only buildings.

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    That's what adult only buildings remind me of, gumudgeons, people who are too deaf to hear the traffic and have one foot in the grave.
    Better ban those buildings then. That will make all the people nice like you, and per Replacement, there will be no more drug or drinking problems anywhere.
    Geez if we banned them where would people like you go to live.
    Calgary hopefully..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I think for Seniors I could see that.
    Why not young adults? Why do I have to be limited on how loud I play my stereo during the day, because there is a baby next door, and parents who get mad about it? I know when I was in my 20's I lived in building where we partied every night and I had to deal with constant complaints from a family with a small child next door. We made their life hell, but at that age, I didn't care, and I don't expect my kids at that age would either (they don't live in your and Ian's hipster utopian society of perfect respect). Who are you, or they, to say my lifestyle was wrong at that age? Who are you to say what ages its ok to want to live close to kids, and what age its not ok? These rules on adult buildings are there for a variety of reasons, including to avoid conflict, which I think is a good thing, I wish I had had the option of adult only when I was younger, and I will want it when I am older.
    (Highlighted by me)

    I don't think you're a young adult though!. I think that ship sailed probably 25 years ago and you're still clinging to your youth. Why, why, why can't moa play his stereo loud during the day. Why, why. why can't he make as much noise as he wants in his own home. Why is that baby/kid crying so much, don't they realize I want to listen to my loud music. How inconsiderate of those kids.
    I'm sure most people would rather listen to kids playing than someone like you blasting out your Lawrence Welk renderings.
    Last edited by Gemini; 05-04-2017 at 01:12 PM.
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  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I don't thing your a young adult though!. I think that ship sailed probably 25 years ago and you're still clinging to your youth. Why, why, why can't moa play his stereo loud during the day. Why, why. why can't he make as much noise as he wants in his own home. Why is that baby/kid crying so much, don't they realize I want to listen to my loud music. How inconsiderate of those kids.
    This isn't just about me, its about the human right to choose the type of place you want to live in. I'd like my kids in Edmonton to be able to enjoy their 20's without having to worry about anti-party, anti-music, kill-joys, and an over 18 adult building is a great condo starter choice for them to consider. They can always rent it out then if the decide to have kids and move elsewhere to a quieter more boring building (like the one I live in), its a great stepping stone then into property. Having different types of buildings, and different types of neighborhoods is what makes cities interesting. While you, Replacement and IanO seem to want to turn downtown into a Windermere clone, its not what I think most people want, it certainly won't end the existence of crack dens as Replacement claims (cities that have banned adult only buildings still have plenty of crime). The existence of adult only buildings aimed at young adults and investors, reflects residents desires to have different housing options for people in different situations, I think that's a very good thing, not a bad thing.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 01:17 PM.

  73. #73

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    ^What, kids aren't human too!. Don't they have any rights. My gawd, give it up. Life is not just one big party, you have to grow up at some point. Your loud partying is not a valid reason to deny anyone a place to live. You may think it is but it's not. Go live on an acreage if you want a party house.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  74. #74

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    ^I have never seen a child try to buy or rent in an adult building. I can't take my dog into a no-pets building, and I can't take my child into an adult only building. Get over it, it isn't going to change (hopefully).


    Baxter said there are many reasons why people choose adult only buildings, such as shift workers and students who are looking for quiet lodgings.


    “Lets face it,” said Baxter. “Kids are kids – kids make noise.”


    He said in Calgary, the majority of buildings do allow families with children. And those that don’t are usually located in places such as the Core and Beltline which lack parks and green spaces for children.


    He doesn’t think Alberta should blindly follow suit with other provinces on amending legislation.


    “Just because someone else does it doesn’t mean we have to follow suit. Alberta has always been a free market province,” he said.
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...ds-to-end.html
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 01:36 PM.

  75. #75

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    ^I guess now you're comparing children to dogs. You have an unhealthy fixation on adult only buildings. They're not magic those buildings. Nobody would want to listen to your loud music any time of the day and yet you seem to think you can play it with impunity. Two words. Grow Up.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids in a condo, where do they run and play? Sad.!
    Ask Eric Clapton, super sad. I try to keep my kids off the balcony.


    My grandchildren don't go on ours..smh.
    soooo...

    it's not ok for someone to live in your building if they have children but it's ok for people to visit you in your building if they have children or, presumably, even for just the children to visit you without outside parental supervision?

    is there some theoretically magic period of time on which one side having children in your building is okay but on the other side is not okay? an hour? an afternoon? a weekend? no more often than twice a week?

    and if someone else in your building wants to have their grandchildren visit, is that theoretically magic period of time then somehow doubled or do you have to subdivide and share your allotted time with your grandchildren with your neighbors?

    and if you don't use your allotted magic period of time this month or next, can you carry it over and use it consecutively during their summer holidays so their parents can have a week or two at an adults only resort?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    This is a PROVINCIAL issue, not a condo one, not a Downtown one... Provincial.

    We are also one of, if not the only province that exempts age from what I am told.

    Families, kids should have opportunities to live where they like, you know, like the rest of us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids in a condo, where do they run and play? Sad.!
    Like the world over, in great public amenities, condo amenity spaces, parks, Leg grounds, schools, front yards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Playing loud music, parties, smoking dope. Who's sounding like a kid, you are.
    You sound like the geriatric you are - there are senior buildings for you. I like exciting noisy, fun downtowns. I don't like sleepy suburban villages. That's a choice I made, IanO wants to take it away from me and others.
    Why? How? I want a vibrant urban core that is inclusive.
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  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    We are also one of, if not the only province that exempts age from what I am told.
    Its one of the many reasons I choose to live in Alberta, its sad to see our freedom to live how we want, may be taken away - I'm just thankful we only have 2 more years of this communist NDP government, I fear how much more harm they will do though.

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    I cannot believe that this is even an argument in 2017 that a basic human right is being discriminated on and we are debating if it has merit or not.
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    We should have senior free buildings, alcohol free buildings, marijuana free buildings, music free buildings, peanut butter free buildings, pink clothing free buildings, religious free buildings, electronics free buildings, BBQ free buildings, because people are entitled to live freely away from those things and have rights ya know!

    That is all how you all sound when making the argument for kids free buildings.

  83. #83

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    I'd much rather have buildings full of kids than dogs.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I cannot believe that this is even an argument in 2017 that a basic human right is being discriminated on and we are debating if it has merit or not.
    It is sad that the basic human right to choose what type of place you would like to live in, may be taken away. Obviously many people in Alberta value those rights - we wouldn't have pet free buildings, or adult buildings, otherwise.

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I'd much rather have buildings full of kids than dogs.
    Which is why the current rules are good, you can choose which one you want today, you wont have that choice in the future if some people get their way.

  86. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I cannot believe that this is even an argument in 2017 that a basic human right is being discriminated on and we are debating if it has merit or not.
    What about individual property rights & self determination? Why does someone's desire to live in my property supersede my own rights to do with my private property as I choose? Why should parents be exempted from the repercussions of their actions & choices? Nobody forced their child upon them, why do they have a right to force it upon me & my property? Actions have consequences.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    So we should discriminate on sex, religion, gender, disability, income too? Same bloody thing.
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  88. #88

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    Thanks for the rhetoric- and fallacy-jammed non-answer.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  89. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    So we should discriminate on sex, religion, gender, disability, income too? Same bloody thing.
    Don't we? Try renting in a house with stairs if you are disabled. Trying renting an appartment if you can't afford it. Try living in a nunnery if you are a man or an atheist. Try living in a pet prohibited building, if you have a dog. Try living in a seniors complex if you want your children to live there. Try living in a condo that bans smoking if you smoke (Melville building Coal Harbor). Same bloody thing.
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-04-2017 at 02:30 PM.

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    Like anything, it comes down to enforcement if noise or other issues come up...the same as they would for a loud 20yr old or someone smoking in the halls.

    99% of the time kids would be invisible to anyone in your building.
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    The other 1% of the time they've pulled the fire alarm in the hallway while their parents "turned their back for just a second", necessitating a complete evacuation of the building & a large bill for a false alarm from the FD. Happened to me just last year.

    I'm extremely fortunate that I live in a remarkably soundproof building with only 4 units/floor & a security system that prevents people from going to floors as it minimizes the chance of child-induced disruption/noise, but I gotta say I breathed a sigh of relief when the family with the curious kids moved out (after being fined by the condo board & forced to pay the bill for the false alarm). They realized that living in a SFH was a better fit for them & their growing family.

    My primary concern is not who lives near me, more that the government is stripping me of some of my property rights & preventing me from choosing tenants for my own properties that align best with my intents & purposes. Families are complicated & I like simple people living in my revenue properties. Hence why I prefer to rent to single people & married couples without children. In the 15 years I've been renting properties they've shown to be far less troublesome & more reliable than unmarried couples, roommates & families, with the added bonus of less wear & tear on the property/appliances.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Like anything, it comes down to enforcement if noise or other issues come up...the same as they would for a loud 20yr old or someone smoking in the halls.

    99% of the time kids would be invisible to anyone in your building.
    Says someone I bet has never lived with children in a building. I have and its not easy!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    The other 1% of the time they've pulled the fire alarm in the hallway while their parents "turned their back for just a second", necessitating a complete evacuation of the building & a large bill for a false alarm from the FD. Happened to me just last year.

    I'm extremely fortunate that I live in a remarkably soundproof building with only 4 units/floor & a security system that prevents people from going to floors as it minimizes the chance of child-induced disruption/noise, but I gotta say I breathed a sigh of relief when the family with the curious kids moved out (after being fined by the condo board & forced to pay the bill for the false alarm). They realized that living in a SFH was a better fit for them & their growing family.

    My primary concern is not who lives near me, more that the government is stripping me of some of my property rights & preventing me from choosing tenants for my own properties that align best with my intents & purposes. Families are complicated & I like simple people living in my revenue properties. Hence why I prefer to rent to single people & married couples without children. In the 15 years I've been renting properties they've shown to be far less troublesome & more reliable than unmarried couples, roommates & families, with the added bonus of less wear & tear on the property/appliances.
    I'm not sure the intent here is to enforce each individual application, though, but more around complexes/buildings that outright ban certain groups of people. While it may be worded in a way that would allow further enforcement, the government isn't resourced to handle such a task. You're still entitled to do background checks on people and deny for x, y, z reasons. I mean, ageism doesn't necessarily equate to income related reasons for renting. If you had a family that was respectful versus a single guy throwing parties all the time, you're probably going with the family. Any tenant(s) can be troublesome. If you run a reference on the said family OR individual, and their previous landlord says they trashed the place, that is reasonable grounds to deny them tenancy. Denying them based on the fact that they have children is not though. This isn't about drilling down to reference checks, but outright denial based on age/family situation. I think most landlords, even now, are creative enough to deny tenancy to people that they do not want living there, by legitimate means, even if they have a discriminatory point of view about the applicant(s).

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    While it may be worded in a way that would allow further enforcement, the government isn't resourced to handle such a task.
    Making this a whole lotta change accomplishing nothing, except allowing families with a sense of entitlement to cry foul & allege discrimination on the grounds they've got kids when in fact the kids are a symptom/consequence of their own decision making/life planning abilities that make them poor tenants & not the reason incarnate.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    While it may be worded in a way that would allow further enforcement, the government isn't resourced to handle such a task.
    Making this a whole lotta change accomplishing nothing, except allowing families with a sense of entitlement to cry foul & allege discrimination on the grounds they've got kids when in fact the kids are a symptom/consequence of their own decision making/life planning abilities that make them poor tenants & not the reason incarnate.
    The change would make blanket bans in places like adult-only condos disallowed, while allowing individual renters, for example, to rent to the tenants they choose. Which could include not renting to families. Does this not accomplish exactly what you want?

  96. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    The change would make blanket bans in places like adult-only condos disallowed, while allowing individual renters, for example, to rent to the tenants they choose. Which could include not renting to families. Does this not accomplish exactly what you want?
    No. Although I have my own personal concerns at the forefront with regards to renters, I don't believe that "adults only" condo buildings are something to be prohibited or otherwise unfairly discriminatory. Just because I'd make it out of this change relatively unscathed or unfettered, I don't think that the changes as a whole are a net positive or needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Like anything, it comes down to enforcement if noise or other issues come up...the same as they would for a loud 20yr old or someone smoking in the halls.

    99% of the time kids would be invisible to anyone in your building.
    Says someone I bet has never lived with children in a building. I have and its not easy!!
    I am very proud to say that our building, The Omega, allows kids, pets and anyone else who wishes to live there. My direct neighbour had a baby at one point and ZERO issues. My other neighbour above has heels, many issues.
    www.decl.org

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  98. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The idea that people have to sell or move out of their apartment or condo if they get pregnant and want to build a family IN THEIR community is unfathomable.
    So getting knocked up is carte blanche for ignoring/breaching the legally binding agreements you voluntarily accepted when you moved in, without consequence? Because feelings? That's not how the law works. You knew the rules, you broke the rules, you deal with the consequences.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  99. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I am very proud to say that our building, The Omega, allows kids, pets and anyone else who wishes to live there. My direct neighbour had a baby at one point and ZERO issues. My other neighbour above has heels, many issues.
    You've lived next to kids, but not with kids. Lady's point stands.
    Giving less of a damn than everů Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  100. #100

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    Not scientific, but here is a poll on the issue:

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/poll/shou...-be-adult-only

    So far, 70% support allowing adult only condo's. Its really just a minority who want to change things.

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