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Thread: Ageism to become discrimination in Alberta

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The idea that people have to sell or move out of their apartment or condo if they get pregnant and want to build a family IN THEIR community is unfathomable.
    So getting knocked up is carte blanche for ignoring/breaching the legally binding agreements you voluntarily accepted when you moved in, without consequence? Because feelings? That's not how the law works. You knew the rules, you broke the rules, you deal with the consequences.
    Good god man. Policies change, charters change, life changes.
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  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Good god man. Policies change, charters change, life changes.
    So do addresses. By all means, make it so that getting out from a lease or rental agreement is quick, easy & penalty free in the face of a qualifying life event, but people should still have to deal with the consequences of their choices. People make choices. Choices have consequences. Don't restrict other people's choices with your own. Take responsibility for your actions.
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  3. #103

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    Every adult only building will now require specific authorization for the number of tenants allowed to live in the property. Anymore then the 2 adults and youll be evicted. This is one of those stupid rules that arent needed and really easy to get around.

    There should be adult only buildings or senior buildings if thats what people want. The market has clearly identified that this is wanted hence why there are so many.

    I can easily deny a family with no issues if i dont want kids in my property. Of which one of my properties happens to have a 3 yr old in it now...

  4. #104

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    I'd also question the priorities of any parent willing to sacrifice their children's quality of life by moving them to a neighbourhood with extremely limited family-centric amenities like rec centres, great schools, grocery stores, parks with playgrounds & other children. If you're willing to put your urbanist agenda ahead of your children I wonder how good of a parent you are & how well you're raising your kids.

    "I like being able to walk to work, maybe pop in for a pint on a patio on the way home if it's a nice day & Jasper Ave is humming. Shame little Ian Jr. has to take the bus on his own every day, since there's no schools in our area. I hope he remembered to pick up the groceries on the way home or we'll have to go out for tapas for dinner again! I hope he doesn't fall over & hurt himself on the pavement attempting to play in the pocket park for pocket dogs again when we take the dog for a walk, I hate having to take him to the Medicentre all the way out in barbaric Oliver."
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Good god man. Policies change, charters change, life changes.
    So do addresses. By all means, make it so that getting out from a lease or rental agreement is quick, easy & penalty free in the face of a qualifying life event, but people should still have to deal with the consequences of their choices. People make choices. Choices have consequences. Don't restrict other people's choices with your own. Take responsibility for your actions.
    from my perspective i think you might be on the wrong side of this one. the problem is that what the province may or may not actually do is unclear and the discussion here needs to be broken down.

    you want to be able to decide for yourself based on your criteria whether you want to rent a condo you own to someone with a child or not. fair enough. you should be able to make those decisions or to obtain any reasonable additional rent or damage/security deposits in order for you to reconsider.

    the problem with the "adult only" building designations as they now stand is that someone who would prefer to rent to someone with a child does not have the same choices you do. if you had a condo across the street from grandin school as an example, you might well prefer a tenant with a six year old who is likely to remain a tenant for the next six years so the child doesn't have to change schools.

    those being frozen out of the market aren't just prospective tenants but prospective landlords. this is because the adult only designation covers the entire building, not just individual suites. in the case of condominium buildings, the requirement for 75% of the unit factors plus 75% of the owners to vote in favour at their annual general meeting or at an extraordinary meeting in order to change it means most boards and buildings just shrug their shoulders because of the difficulty and the expense of obtaining both those things, not necessarily because they're not prepared to accept the change.

    i believe that if the province were to amend the legislation regarding building designations not longer being enforceable while still allowing individual landlord's to make individual decisions, most people on both sides of the market would be accepting.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I'd also question the priorities of any parent willing to sacrifice their children's quality of life by moving them to a neighbourhood with extremely limited family-centric amenities like rec centres, great schools, grocery stores, parks with playgrounds & other children. If you're willing to put your urbanist agenda ahead of your children I wonder how good of a parent you are & how well you're raising your kids.

    "I like being able to walk to work, maybe pop in for a pint on a patio on the way home if it's a nice day & Jasper Ave is humming. Shame little Ian Jr. has to take the bus on his own every day, since there's no schools in our area. I hope he remembered to pick up the groceries on the way home or we'll have to go out for tapas for dinner again! I hope he doesn't fall over & hurt himself on the pavement attempting to play in the pocket park for pocket dogs again when we take the dog for a walk, I hate having to take him to the Medicentre all the way out in barbaric Oliver."



    Good one noodler.

    But to be fair, Top_Dawg and Bro_Dawg were raised in Grandin and look how awesome they turned out.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I'd also question the priorities of any parent willing to sacrifice their children's quality of life by moving them to a neighbourhood with extremely limited family-centric amenities like rec centres, great schools, grocery stores, parks with playgrounds & other children. If you're willing to put your urbanist agenda ahead of your children I wonder how good of a parent you are & how well you're raising your kids.

    "I like being able to walk to work, maybe pop in for a pint on a patio on the way home if it's a nice day & Jasper Ave is humming. Shame little Ian Jr. has to take the bus on his own every day, since there's no schools in our area. I hope he remembered to pick up the groceries on the way home or we'll have to go out for tapas for dinner again! I hope he doesn't fall over & hurt himself on the pavement attempting to play in the pocket park for pocket dogs again when we take the dog for a walk, I hate having to take him to the Medicentre all the way out in barbaric Oliver."
    i trust you're kidding or playing devil's advocate because what we're talking about here applies to all of those condos within walking distance of that medicentre in oliver. and the allin clinic in oliver. and the four grocery stores you can walk to in oliver. along with grandin school and oliver school. and oliver arena. you can take the stairs to the glenora club or victoria golf course. most of the condos in windermere or newcastle or terra losa or sherwood park's centre in the park etc. are as close to all of the neighborhood amenities that you imply are only walkable from single family homes "better suited to family life". and most of those condos provide amenity spaces and recreational opportunities that many young parents can't afford to provide on their own. i don't think you can equate any parent's priorities regarding the quality of life of their children by the form of housing they choose to live in. in many parts of the world, the most desirable form of urban housing is multi-family accommodation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Not scientific, but here is a poll on the issue:

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/poll/shou...-be-adult-only

    So far, 70% support allowing adult only condo's. Its really just a minority who want to change things.
    Regardless of people's stance, why bother posting a poll that clearly has confirmation bias on the issue? I'm sure if you put up a poll on the CBC's site, that most would support condos not being adult only, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I'd also question the priorities of any parent willing to sacrifice their children's quality of life by moving them to a neighbourhood with extremely limited family-centric amenities like rec centres, great schools, grocery stores, parks with playgrounds & other children. If you're willing to put your urbanist agenda ahead of your children I wonder how good of a parent you are & how well you're raising your kids.

    "I like being able to walk to work, maybe pop in for a pint on a patio on the way home if it's a nice day & Jasper Ave is humming. Shame little Ian Jr. has to take the bus on his own every day, since there's no schools in our area. I hope he remembered to pick up the groceries on the way home or we'll have to go out for tapas for dinner again! I hope he doesn't fall over & hurt himself on the pavement attempting to play in the pocket park for pocket dogs again when we take the dog for a walk, I hate having to take him to the Medicentre all the way out in barbaric Oliver."
    I know you're being sassy with Ian here, but c'mon.

    Do you even have children?

    Given legislation on the issue elsewhere, this change would not be unprecedented by any means. Plenty of buildings outside of downtown are adult only, too. JSG won't make sweeping changes to what individual owners can do - this reads as property rules, not individual owner rules.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I'd much rather have buildings full of kids than dogs.
    Which is why the current rules are good, you can choose which one you want today, you wont have that choice in the future if some people get their way.
    I don't think there's much choice at all today. Landlords have the right to discriminate, while people looking for a place to live have far less rights. The discrimination will end, and you won't even notice the difference since your head is so far up your own arse.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I'd much rather have buildings full of kids than dogs.
    Which is why the current rules are good, you can choose which one you want today, you wont have that choice in the future if some people get their way.
    except you can't really choose which one you want today can you?

    even if you're an owner/landlord that would be happy to rent to someone with children, if the building's 40 year bylaws said "no children", you don't have any more of a choice in the matter than someone with children looking to rent.

    the same would hold true if you were looking to sell that same unit with 40 year bylaws saying "no children" and found a buyer with children. you don't have a choice to sell to them just as they have no choice when it comes to buying.

    and, in both cases, all it would take is 26% of the owners to continue to deprive you of that choice even if you had the support of the other 74%. i'm not sure how you can conclude those rules are doing a good job in providing you with choice and not depriving you of choice.
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    26% ?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I'd also question the priorities of any parent willing to sacrifice their children's quality of life by moving them to a neighbourhood with extremely limited family-centric amenities like rec centres, great schools, grocery stores, parks with playgrounds & other children. If you're willing to put your urbanist agenda ahead of your children I wonder how good of a parent you are & how well you're raising your kids.

    "I like being able to walk to work, maybe pop in for a pint on a patio on the way home if it's a nice day & Jasper Ave is humming. Shame little Ian Jr. has to take the bus on his own every day, since there's no schools in our area. I hope he remembered to pick up the groceries on the way home or we'll have to go out for tapas for dinner again! I hope he doesn't fall over & hurt himself on the pavement attempting to play in the pocket park for pocket dogs again when we take the dog for a walk, I hate having to take him to the Medicentre all the way out in barbaric Oliver."
    My man you are so incredibly naive or just an awful awful person.

    Grandin is an amazing school.

    Everything is walkable.

    We have amazing park/green spaces.

    I know you are mr.contrarian, but those comments remind me just how uninformed you are.
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  14. #114

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    ken- when you buy into a condo with rules and bylaws we do so knowing we must follow them. This notion old bylaws arent what people want is the wrong arguement to use because its the reason people would have bought there to begin with. I wont buy a rental property in a condo that is adult only and then blame some bylaws that state i cant rent to kids.

    If family orientated buildings were desired downtown they would get built. Why arent developers catering to this market if they are so hard done by and underserved? The worst part of this bs that kid friendly buildings dont exist is that there are plenty of them. I found an apartment for my wife and kids in a day as we were homeless for a few months when buying a new house.

    Want a specific area or a specific building? Too freaking bad...

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    Condo bylaws should NEVER EVER usurp Provincial legislation and a Human Rights Act.

    This is NOT a downtown, suburb, rural or child issue... it is a violation of a basic human right which is absolute BS.
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  16. #116

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    oh shut up about that non sense.. there should be a choice. The argument this is a problem isnt based on facts...

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    There should be a choice, THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT... at the moment soon to be or families do not have that protected under the Human Rights Act.

    Thanks
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    I am truly ashamed that we are having this conversation.
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  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There should be a choice, THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT... at the moment soon to be or families do not have that protected under the Human Rights Act.

    Thanks
    There is a choice. There are plenty of options. Sorry someone doesnt get to dictate terms with a landlord and force them to take them. Sorry someone has to pick a different building other then that shiny condo downtown.

    This choice shouldnt be forced on me as a landlord.

    Ken put it nicely.. maybe remove the age designations on buildings and leave individual choice to landlords to say no or charge more.

    Regardless what happens if i dont want kids in my property they wont be there.

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    This is monumental and something some of us (hopefully all of us) will look back on and say 'about time'.
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    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/04/0...only-buildings

    David Shepherd, NDP MLA for Edmonton-Centre, said all other Canadian jurisdictions at least prevent age discrimination in rental properties. Most allow exemptions for buildings geared to seniors.
    So if I read that right, Alberta is the only jurisdiction in Canada that is behind the times on this.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  22. #122

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    Noise issues can be dealt with by condo or building's noise bylaw, augmented by the City's noise bylaw. Doesn't matter if it's kids or hair dryers or whatever. Don't need it in the Human Rights Act to deal with noise.

    That said, I don't think taking it out of the act will fundamentally change most buildings Downtown. We don't want anyone to be restricted in where they can rent but realistically families are not going to flock to certain buildings just because the rules have changed. Basically those that are living in single adult buildings now probably won't see many changes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/04/0...only-buildings

    David Shepherd, NDP MLA for Edmonton-Centre, said all other Canadian jurisdictions at least prevent age discrimination in rental properties. Most allow exemptions for buildings geared to seniors.
    So if I read that right, Alberta is the only jurisdiction in Canada that is behind the times on this.
    Basically, yes. We are simply getting to par with oh I dunno, Canada.
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  24. #124

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    theres been a few posts ive came across where people have weasled their way into senior only buildings and then realized that seniors are retired and have all day to make their life hell. Apparently being the first non senior in a senior only building is not a good idea.

    In regards to age restrictions... we cant say age is a human right but then ignore the same principles and allow seniors buildings to be exempt from this. Is it discrimination or not? We cant have it both ways where it is and isnt.

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    Need kids in downtown too. Don't limit buildings to adults.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    theres been a few posts ive came across where people have weasled their way into senior only buildings and then realized that seniors are retired and have all day to make their life hell. Apparently being the first non senior in a senior only building is not a good idea.

    In regards to age restrictions... we cant say age is a human right but then ignore the same principles and allow seniors buildings to be exempt from this. Is it discrimination or not? We cant have it both ways where it is and isnt.
    in some areas i think you can not only have it both ways but need to have it both ways...

    if a building is specifically designed to accommodate seniors and/or offers programs and amenities or services specifically for seniors and/or receives or did receive grant monies or subsidies intended for the provision of accommodation for seniors, then it's appropriate that those spaces and the monies behind them not be appropriated by those not qualifying or not in need of the investments made in them.
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  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    theres been a few posts ive came across where people have weasled their way into senior only buildings and then realized that seniors are retired and have all day to make their life hell. Apparently being the first non senior in a senior only building is not a good idea.

    In regards to age restrictions... we cant say age is a human right but then ignore the same principles and allow seniors buildings to be exempt from this. Is it discrimination or not? We cant have it both ways where it is and isnt.
    in some areas i think you can not only have it both ways but need to have it both ways...

    if a building is specifically designed to accommodate seniors and/or offers programs and amenities or services specifically for seniors and/or receives or did receive grant monies or subsidies intended for the provision of accommodation for seniors, then it's appropriate that those spaces and the monies behind them not be appropriated by those not qualifying or not in need of the investments made in them.
    My parents moved into a life lease building with 24 hour care. The vast majority, say 95%+, were seniors but there were a few younger residents there as well. I never heard of there being any age related issues.

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  29. #129
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    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.
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  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    theres been a few posts ive came across where people have weasled their way into senior only buildings and then realized that seniors are retired and have all day to make their life hell. Apparently being the first non senior in a senior only building is not a good idea.

    In regards to age restrictions... we cant say age is a human right but then ignore the same principles and allow seniors buildings to be exempt from this. Is it discrimination or not? We cant have it both ways where it is and isnt.
    in some areas i think you can not only have it both ways but need to have it both ways...

    if a building is specifically designed to accommodate seniors and/or offers programs and amenities or services specifically for seniors and/or receives or did receive grant monies or subsidies intended for the provision of accommodation for seniors, then it's appropriate that those spaces and the monies behind them not be appropriated by those not qualifying or not in need of the investments made in them.
    I can understand your point of view but you can't hold others legally liable and then turn a blind eye to other age demographics. Any 65+ building will want the exception then the +55 then the +45. All it would take is one court case to take the exceptions provided to some age demographics to throw this legislation out.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.
    Its clearly only a downtown issue as the article only wants to talk about downtown. The fact the focus is only on DT buildings and DT residents blows my mind. If its a human rights issue why are we limiting it down to one minor part of the city? Simple answer is because there are PLENTY of child friendly buildings city wide... PLENTY.

    This DT coalition wants 55+ restrictions to be allowed... the hypocrisy in this is ridiculous.

    Can i discriminate against some gays? Some blacks? Some Asians?
    Last edited by gwill211; 05-04-2017 at 11:20 PM.

  31. #131
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    Spearheaded by some in the urban core, Downtown, Oliver, etc... BECAUSE they are having or have kids and had to move or are now being forced to move, but the act is Provincial and impact broad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.

    It's a bloody issue if we have to move!

  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.

    It's a bloody issue if we have to move!
    Move to a Quiet Building. All ages, races, sexes welcome, but 3 strikes on noise complaints and you're out. Maybe you're already there.

  34. #134

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    Paula Simons with an excellent first person article because as a kid she and her family got kicked out of an adult only building for the crime of having her.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...o-ban-children

    Now just in passing I'll mention here a common human dynamic where one tends to be comforted by the thought that ones statements in a thread made just yesterday are so resolutely worded by such an erudite columnist in todays article. Paulas comments being so similar one would think she glanced at my posts. heh Conversely Paula would be one of those journalists I respect enough that I would have cause to rethink my position(or wonder about it) if she was diametrically opposed. Rex Murphy is another one that hits me that way, a few others. I suspect we all have some of those Journalists or columnists (decreasing number) that we share notes with figuratively speaking.

    Anyway just thought it a must first person read. Now consider how likely easy it would be to have Paula and her family livng next door. I would say that would have likely been pretty easy to deal with and great to have as neighbors. I don't know that there would be better neighbors.

    This segues into my next post..
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.



    It's a bloody issue if we have to move!
    Move to a Quiet Building. All ages, races, sexes welcome, but 3 strikes on noise complaints and you're out. Maybe you're already there.

    It's super quiet. No kids pushing all the buttons in the elevators, or running in the hall. That happens when some grandchildren visit, and get bored.

  36. #136

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    Living in the midst of black and white world of standardized rules that CAN'T BE BROKEN.. This is a bit of a rant.

    My premise here is that why in the present age does everything have to be standardized, why does everything have to be all or nothing black and white. Whatever happened to case by case basis, flexibility, standardization as suggestion rather than implacable rule. I see this across so many issues now. Some public entity, fearful of lawsuits, legal advice, see fit to always standardize so much that everything is uniform, every school the same, every dogma the same, can't be different, march in lockstep now...

    Consideration should be given to status quo imo. Whether this mean that an adults only building that doesn't have the police at its door every other day and that is responsible run and tenanted should continue to be allowed to be that. But with the intersecting consideration that the odd family that perhaps unexpectedly has a child in such a building could be granted some consideration as well in terms of incumbency.

    I have to say that in my experience it is naďve to think that young couples do not radically change their notion of having kids or not. I've met and worked with countless families that said "never, not for me, never having kids, forget it, you kidding me" well, check in with those young couples or individuals in followup 1, 5, 10yrs later. Guess what you find? That such *decision* and proclamation made when young is often altered by suddenly deciding to have kid(s). This kind of behavior I think is reasonable, and I think its unreasonable to suggest that any such couple, or individual, entered into a lease agreement with any intention of not honoring the no kids verdict. Just that people, when it comes to the most important decision in a person life, often change their minds on that decision.

    So if a person loves their life, their residence, and their kids should they be forced out? Or could they be dealt with on a case by case basis. Could there be meritorious accommodations made. All round? Isn't that more reasonable?

    We're letting law, and strict interpretations of law and code, and edict to increasingly black and white, shape our society.
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    We have had upwards of 5 children living in our building at one time, ZERO complaints to the board or any real impact to anyone else.

    There is also a trend to have grandparents live in the same or a building nearby so that they can continue an active life in an urban core with the ability to be the babysitter or nanny for 2 working parents. This will only continue to increase and yet at the moment that cannot occur in many buildings.
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  38. #138

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    My man you are so incredibly naive or just an awful awful person. [/quote]
    Personal attacks should be avoided. And again, I ask you to not be overly familiar with me.
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Grandin is an amazing school.
    What if I don't want my children going to a Catholic school thanks to its ties to the despicable & loathsome Catholic Church? What if I have goals for my children besides French or Spanish Immersion? Grandin is great, sure, for an extremely narrow demographic of people. One good school does not equal "great schools".
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Everything is walkable.
    Not by the standards set by the CoE. Where's the playground within 400m of The Omega? Fully featured Rec Centre? Where's the family-oriented retail? Or are you talking about the Walkability score, which mischaracterizes corner stores as "grocery stores" Downtown, overinflating scores?
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    We have amazing park/green spaces.
    So does almost everywhere in town. Bonus is that those park/green spaces have playgrounds for kids & other children to play with. Downtown does not.
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I know you are mr.contrarian, but those comments remind me just how uninformed you are.
    It's your terrible, disingenuous, misleading, narrow-minded rhetoric, overly familiar tone & attempts at attacking me & not the issues directly that show me (and many others here) exactly what sort of person you are. You rarely give a straight answer & you and your cadre of yes men have devolved into the Ad Hominem Posse. Sad.
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    Oh Noods.

    Grandin has a fantastic playground 5mins from my condo that is well used by kids in the area. As for your religious beliefs, there are other schools nearby for you that are much closer than both of my elementary schools that required 30mins bus rides. Many look past the Catholicism and instead appreciate a school with English, Spanish and French being offered.

    Anything I generally need is within a 10mins walk or 5mins drive, including groceries.

    The YMCA is a 5-7mins walk, or a short LRT to Commonwealth if I don't want to do the 15mins walk to Kinsmen.

    What is sad is your continued inability to give credit where credit is due with regards to our urban core, people's choices and the fact that you can have as much of an urban life here as most other places if you so choose.
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  40. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.



    It's a bloody issue if we have to move!
    Move to a Quiet Building. All ages, races, sexes welcome, but 3 strikes on noise complaints and you're out. Maybe you're already there.

    It's super quiet. No kids pushing all the buttons in the elevators, or running in the hall. That happens when some grandchildren visit, and get bored.
    Some of the poor children behaviors cited in the thread are arguably poor parenting related indications. For instance pulling a fire alarm, jamming elevator by pressing everybutton possible at once or writing on walls or screaming in hallways. Those are adult issue behaviors that just happen to be manifest in the children due to a lack of sufficient authority, supervision, and parenting. Chances are theres a few other things wrong with a tenant letting their kids run all over the place a lot of the time. Particularly if this was going on in an adult oriented building you would wonder about the parents allowing their kids to be at large and unsupervised in a building.

    My reason for rebutting is that these are for the most part tenant related issues, not kid issues specifically.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  41. #141

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    Now heres where the Social worker conscience in me steps into the fray.

    you have a young couple. Just come home from the hospital, the challenges of childrearing being potentially overwhelming but at least they have each other, a place to stay, and people and neighborhood they are comfortable with. Even people down the block that will babysit. Maybe even relatives down the block prepared to do that as well as offer support.

    They come home from a world already overturned to an eviction notice, and surprised, and perhaps thinking that they wouldn't be summarily kicked out for the offense of having a wonderful baby.

    The mother, as so often in the case develops post partum depression soon thereafter. The baby cries a lot sensing the parents stress, In addition to no sleep, dad tryng to work, mother depressed they have the expectation of finding a place, moving all their belongings now. With zero energy, now!

    Now anybody familiar with the intersection of mental health change stress and life change stress knows a situation like this can and does go far south in a hurry. We are taking people at their most vulnerable time, ever in their life, with the most challenges they have ever faced, and evicting them at that worst moment.

    At best this is unkind. Yes I've seen these fullblown situations. yes I've seen mother in hospital or treatment facility, even psychiatric facility, overwhelmed, yes I've seen baby removed from the home when alternatives ought to have been possible.

    What kind of society do we want to be?
    Last edited by Replacement; 06-04-2017 at 09:06 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This is monumental and something some of us (hopefully all of us) will look back on and say 'about time'.



    Mr. Gorbachev.

    Tear down this wall.

  43. #143

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    ^^oh the humanity, someone breaks the rules and has a dog or a child in their building when the rules, as agreed by the tenants, doesn't allow that. Terrible. It makes me almost feel as bad as when someone who is hungry, goes into a store and takes some food, and doesn't pay. Terrible, they broke the rules as agreed by society, but we must feel sorry for the poor buggers, not let them face the consequences of their decisions (to enter store and steal, to live in a pet free building with a pet, to live in child free building with a child), mustn't we?

    If people didn't want adult only buildings, there wouldn't be adult only buildings. Get over, you have no godess-given right to live anywhere you choose - I can't demand to live in Darryl Katz house, why should I be allowed to live in an adult only building or a senior building, if I have kids?
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-04-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^^oh the humanity, someone breaks the rules and has a dog or a child in their building when the rules, as agreed by the tenants, doesn't allow that. Terrible. It makes me almost feel as bad as when someone who is hungry, goes into a store and takes some food, and doesn't pay. Terrible, they broke the rules as agreed by society, but we must feel sorry for the poor buggers, not let them face the consequences of their decisions (to enter store and steal, to live in a pet free building with a pet, to live in child free building with a child), mustn't we?
    Because that's a reasonable response.

    lol that you induce the hungry person that steals a loaf of bread should be made to pay and pay and pay. How dare somebody starving want to eat. Jean Valjean be damned. Rules! Laws! You should know this one, you watch movies as background..


    Maybe you could let know about another movie you watched that makes you an expert in this and any area. Top Gun maybe. I would be tempted to make further comment but I endeavor not to make unkind comments about people. Nor do I think these are your actual viewpoints anyway. I think you are shining it on at this point. At least I hope so for your sake.

    carry on I guess.
    Last edited by Replacement; 06-04-2017 at 09:17 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  45. #145

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    ^I remember seeing this issue come up before in psychology tests. There are thinking people, who believe laws matter and should be applied. And there are feeling people, who are more worried about the consequences on individuals. In the corporate world there aren't many feeling people (less than 30%), the less rational tend to rather become artists, hairdressers, environmental activists and social workers.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-04-2017 at 09:26 AM.

  46. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Oh Noods.

    Grandin has a fantastic playground 5mins from my condo that is well used by kids in the area. As for your religious beliefs, there are other schools nearby for you that are much closer than both of my elementary schools that required 30mins bus rides. Many look past the Catholicism and instead appreciate a school with English, Spanish and French being offered.
    Grandin is 600m away & across a busy commuter arterial. As for my schooling & religious beliefs, I'm sorry that I have convictions & beliefs that are incompatible with the Catholic school system, both religious & secular. Sure, I could look past my principles & make due, but isn't this about families wanting to have their cake & eat it too? Language programs are only one small aspect of the panoply of options available. Having them the only option above baseline public education is not sufficient to meet the "great schools" criteria.

    I couldn't care less what your childhood commute was, it's irrelevant to the conversation. But if we're pulling out personal anecdotes to explain our points, here we go: My mom drove me 20 minutes every day to school & gave up career advancement to do so by changing schools to one closer to the lone school on the south side of Edmonton that offered the programs I needed & my dad gave up seeing his kids except on weekends so he could get work to keep us in the house with a big backyard & lots of room for safe activities during the spotty oil & gas construction industry of the 1980s. I guess my parents just raised me with a different set of priorities regarding children & their education. It's part of the reason I've remained resolutely child-free, as I know I don't have the same level of conviction & commitment they had to do it right & anything less than that would seem like a failure. It's also why when I was faced with the prospect of raising a child, my partner at the time ensured that we picked someone with the same obvious commitment to their children & their future that my parents instilled in me (but not quite enough).

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Anything I generally need is within a 10mins walk or 5mins drive, including groceries.

    The YMCA is a 5-7mins walk, or a short LRT to Commonwealth if I don't want to do the 15mins walk to Kinsmen.
    You've got a known & oft-corrected tendency to vastly underestimate distances or walking/travel times in & out of the core. Not sure what the deal is or who you think you're fooling, especially since you know I know better than to believe your speed-walking-through-walls malarkey. But hey, old dogs don't learn new tricks.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    What is sad is your continued inability to give credit where credit is due with regards to our urban core, people's choices and the fact that you can have as much of an urban life here as most other places if you so choose.
    Oh man. You act like I didn't spend a decade and a half living an "urban life" in the core, only to realize how limiting it is & growing up/out of it. You don't give anyone any credit unless they parrot your views & your inability to see things from other's points of view is well-established.

    You think just because we're often on opposite sides of an issue that I take the opposite tack & joust against your terrible rhetoric because of you & not the issue. Get over yourself. Your assumptions about me reveal more about your own sad mindset than any insights you think you're gleaning about me.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  47. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I remember seeing this issue come up before in psychology tests. There are thinking people, who believe laws matter and should be applied. And there are feeling people, who are more worried about the consequences on individuals. In the corporate world there aren't many feeling people (less than 30%), the less rational tend to rather become artists, hairdressers, environmental activists and social workers.
    lol, nice try. Keep working on it though. But at least be imaginative when trying to offend. You're not even convincing at that. The reaction is mirth just so you know. Keep em coming.

    ps you should have stated Psych 101 texts. Or Psychology today, or a movie...pffft, pay attention to detail man when looking for a reaction. Go big or go home!

    ps its not working. I'm almost incapable of being offended. Try harder dammit.
    Last edited by Replacement; 06-04-2017 at 09:35 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #148

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    So does this mean there will be no Senior only discounts??

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.



    It's a bloody issue if we have to move!
    Move to a Quiet Building. All ages, races, sexes welcome, but 3 strikes on noise complaints and you're out. Maybe you're already there.

    It's super quiet. No kids pushing all the buttons in the elevators, or running in the hall. That happens when some grandchildren visit, and get bored.
    Some of the poor children behaviors cited in the thread are arguably poor parenting related indications. For instance pulling a fire alarm, jamming elevator by pressing everybutton possible at once or writing on walls or screaming in hallways. Those are adult issue behaviors that just happen to be manifest in the children due to a lack of sufficient authority, supervision, and parenting. Chances are theres a few other things wrong with a tenant letting their kids run all over the place a lot of the time. Particularly if this was going on in an adult oriented building you would wonder about the parents allowing their kids to be at large and unsupervised in a building.

    My reason for rebutting is that these are for the most part tenant related issues, not kid issues specifically.

    Kids love to run,they run at school etc. If they are cooped up in a small condo, where do they run ? Hallways, parkades, its not bad behaviour, it's child like behavior..

    I don't think this will fly, too many are against it.

  50. #150
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    ...what is childlike is not their running, it is what I am reading here as to why a basic Human Right that other Provinces recognize is now being opposed to by people who think that age discrimination is acceptable.
    www.decl.org

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  51. #151

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    From your viewpoint it's age discrimination, from mine it's about property rights.

    I can understand your viewpoint & disagree with it. You seem incapable of doing the same for me & my concerns, dismissing them as simply me being contrarian due to who's saying them.

    We can amend the legislation that makes it burdensome to break a legal agreement when one party can no longer abide by it due to a life event. We can make it easier for condominiums to switch up their bylaws without requiring the current level of consensus. Heck, we can even incentivize family-style buildings like we do so many others. We can take care of the issues that negatively impact one group without throwing the baby out with the bathwater & restricting property rights for everyone.
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    Too many people in this thread spouting off opinions about the legality of all this, yet obviously have no clue about the justice system. Got to love the legalese on C2E.

  53. #153

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    We're as much experts on the justice system as Ian is on child-rearing.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  54. #154

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    Doesn't anyone else find it ridiculous that there actually is a right that you don't have under 'certain conditions'? Who wrote Alberta's Human Rights Act anyway?

  55. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Again, not a Downtown issue, not a child issue, not an Edmonton issue.

    It's a bloody issue if we have to move!
    Move to a Quiet Building. All ages, races, sexes welcome, but 3 strikes on noise complaints and you're out. Maybe you're already there.
    Exactly. Tighten up your bylaws regarding noise and fines. 3 strikes you're out. I know a building where someone was assessed almost $10,000 in fines for throwing a party. Again, you don't need age restrictions in the Human Rights Act to deal with noise. That's just bad governance and no other province is doing that anymore.
    www.decl.org

  56. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Heck, we can even incentivize family-style buildings
    What, pray tell, is a 'family style' building?

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    Man, I wish I was at that party.

  58. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Heck, we can even incentivize family-style buildings
    What, pray tell, is a 'family style' building?
    A building with a variety of unit sizes & bedroom counts at different pricepoints, vs sub 1k sq ft bachelors, 1+1s & the like, with the only >2 bedroom units being big money upper level stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids love to run,they run at school etc. If they are cooped up in a small condo, where do they run ?
    Umm...I grew up in a 1 bedroom apartment as part of a family of 4 in a communist country. If I wanted to run, I ran outside. Of course y'all have the fear of the stranger in your DNA so that you won't let your kids do what kids do unless leashed like dogs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids love to run,they run at school etc. If they are cooped up in a small condo, where do they run ?
    Umm...I grew up in a 1 bedroom apartment as part of a family of 4 in a communist country. If I wanted to run, I ran outside. Of course y'all have the fear of the stranger in your DNA so that you won't let your kids do what kids do unless leashed like dogs.
    I had two children..But when it was -20 or colder .How many times do you think they went out.to play

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    We're as much experts on the justice system as Ian is on child-rearing.

    or children living across the hall from him.If heels bothered him from above,kids jumping sure would...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Umm...I grew up in a 1 bedroom apartment as part of a family of 4 in a communist country.

    Boiled cabbage is an acquired taste.


  63. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ...what is childlike is not their running, it is what I am reading here as to why a basic Human Right that other Provinces recognize is now being opposed to by people who think that age discrimination is acceptable.
    Forcing people to no longer be allowed to live in a building that does not permit children, is a form of age discrimination. You seem to value children and families with children, ahead of adults who don't have children who prefer to live in buildings that have no children. I don't think that's fair at all, its discrimination wrapped up in human rights garbage. Other provinces may tolerate that, but Alberta doesn't have to. We should be more tolerant and allow people to live how they choose, where they choose, not force them to live next door to children because of some socialist community engineering goal.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-04-2017 at 12:16 PM.

  64. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I had two children..But when it was -20 or colder .How many times do you think they went out.to play
    Well...this..explains..a..lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    We're as much experts on the justice system as Ian is on child-rearing.

    or children living across the hall from him.If heels bothered him from above,kids jumping sure would...
    You would not hear them in a concrete building, heels yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    We're as much experts on the justice system as Ian is on child-rearing.

    or children living across the hall from him.If heels bothered him from above,kids jumping sure would...
    You would not hear them in a concrete building, heels yes.
    Actually you do. Ours is concrete, people had twin girls living here, and the people below complained . They purchased their condo for the same reason we did...no children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    I had two children..But when it was -20 or colder .How many times do you think they went out.to play
    Well...this..explains..a..lot.
    Said the person with no children

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids love to run,they run at school etc. If they are cooped up in a small condo, where do they run ?
    Umm...I grew up in a 1 bedroom apartment as part of a family of 4 in a communist country. If I wanted to run, I ran outside. Of course y'all have the fear of the stranger in your DNA so that you won't let your kids do what kids do unless leashed like dogs.
    I had two children..But when it was -20 or colder .How many times do you think they went out.to play
    i would guess that children would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf condo about as much as they would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf home in riverdale or ritchie or westmount...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Exactly Ken.
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ...what is childlike is not their running, it is what I am reading here as to why a basic Human Right that other Provinces recognize is now being opposed to by people who think that age discrimination is acceptable.
    Forcing people to no longer be allowed to live in a building that does not permit children, is a form of age discrimination. You seem to value children and families with children, ahead of adults who don't have children who prefer to live in buildings that have no children. I don't think that's fair at all, its discrimination wrapped up in human rights garbage. Other provinces may tolerate that, but Alberta doesn't have to. We should be more tolerant and allow people to live how they choose, where they choose, not force them to live next door to children because of some socialist community engineering goal.

    Great post Moa!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids love to run,they run at school etc. If they are cooped up in a small condo, where do they run ?
    Umm...I grew up in a 1 bedroom apartment as part of a family of 4 in a communist country. If I wanted to run, I ran outside. Of course y'all have the fear of the stranger in your DNA so that you won't let your kids do what kids do unless leashed like dogs.
    I had two children..But when it was -20 or colder .How many times do you think they went out.to play
    i would guess that children would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf condo about as much as they would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf home in riverdale or ritchie or westmount...
    But in a house,you only annoy your own family,not everyone else

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Exactly Ken.
    Ian,you have no clue..None.

  74. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    You would not hear them in a concrete building, heels yes.
    Wrong.

    Source: Live in concrete building, unit above was previously rented out to family who were forced to move (and the owner to sell, since they got to the point their fines were so high that a single complaint would push them into the red on their revenue property) due to repeated noise violations thanks to the kids running around & wrestling. It's not as loud as heels, as the person before the family rolled outta bed into her stilettos, but kids are totally audible through my slab.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids love to run,they run at school etc. If they are cooped up in a small condo, where do they run ?
    Umm...I grew up in a 1 bedroom apartment as part of a family of 4 in a communist country. If I wanted to run, I ran outside. Of course y'all have the fear of the stranger in your DNA so that you won't let your kids do what kids do unless leashed like dogs.
    I had two children..But when it was -20 or colder .How many times do you think they went out.to play
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    We're as much experts on the justice system as Ian is on child-rearing.

    or children living across the hall from him.If heels bothered him from above,kids jumping sure would...
    You would not hear them in a concrete building, heels yes.
    Actually you do. Ours is concrete, people had twin girls living here, and the people below complained . They purchased their condo for the same reason we did...no children.
    i think that's actually a construction issue, not a children's issue, and dealing with it as a construction issue would solve a lot more than just hearing children.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  76. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    [
    i would guess that children would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf condo about as much as they would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf home in riverdale or ritchie or westmount...
    I don't have any fundamental issue with parents choosing to bring their kids up in a condo or apartment (as long as the building permits that). But this is a bit silly, if I live in a house with a fenced in back yard, I am a lot more likely to let a three year old out to play by themselves, than if the back door leads onto Jasper Avenue. You and IanO seem to like the idea of toddlers running around downtown alone, but most of us realize it isn't that safe, and never will be, no matter how many toddlers do it. Even as my kids got older, I'm a lot more comfortable letting a 10 year old walk through a suburb to school, than I would be letting them walk past homeless on Jasper avenue. Even I get accosted by the homeless, and have been threatened by them, I don't need that for my kids - when they stay with me downtown in condo, I can't just open the door and let them go as I once did in suburb, I hate to say it, but downtown is more dangerous for children, and always will be.
    Last edited by moahunter; 06-04-2017 at 12:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Safir View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Kids love to run,they run at school etc. If they are cooped up in a small condo, where do they run ?
    Umm...I grew up in a 1 bedroom apartment as part of a family of 4 in a communist country. If I wanted to run, I ran outside. Of course y'all have the fear of the stranger in your DNA so that you won't let your kids do what kids do unless leashed like dogs.
    I had two children..But when it was -20 or colder .How many times do you think they went out.to play
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    We're as much experts on the justice system as Ian is on child-rearing.

    or children living across the hall from him.If heels bothered him from above,kids jumping sure would...
    You would not hear them in a concrete building, heels yes.
    Actually you do. Ours is concrete, people had twin girls living here, and the people below complained . They purchased their condo for the same reason we did...no children.
    i think that's actually a construction issue, not a children's issue, and dealing with it as a construction issue would solve a lot more than just hearing children.
    No,it's not.LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    [
    i would guess that children would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf condo about as much as they would go out to play if they lived in a 900 sf home in riverdale or ritchie or westmount...
    I don't have any fundamental issue with parents choosing to bring their kids up in a condo or apartment (as long as the building permits that). But this is a bit silly, if I live in a house with a fenced in back yard, I am a lot more likely to let a three year old out to play by themselves, than if the back door leads onto Jasper Avenue. You and IanO seem to like the idea of toddlers running around downtown alone, but most of us realize it isn't that safe, and never will be, no matter how many toddlers do it.

    Even as my kids got older, I'm a lot more comfortable letting a 10 year old walk through a suburb to school, than I would be letting them walk past homeless on Jasper avenue. Even I get accosted by the homeless, and have been threatened by them, I don't need that for my kids.


    Exactly!!!

  79. #179

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    As someone who grew up on an acreage with the exact opposite of helicopter parents I lack a frame of reference or experience on this, but at what age would the parents in the thread feel safe about a child walking 600-1000m to a playground & across a busy 6-lane commuter arterial street without adult supervision?
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    You would not hear them in a concrete building, heels yes.
    Wrong.

    Source: Live in concrete building, unit above was previously rented out to family who were forced to move (and the owner to sell, since they got to the point their fines were so high that a single complaint would push them into the red on their revenue property) due to repeated noise violations thanks to the kids running around & wrestling. It's not as loud as heels, as the person before the family rolled outta bed into her stilettos, but kids are totally audible through my slab.
    i would agree with your "wrong" comment that just choosing a concrete building and expecting it to eliminate the problem isn't enough.

    ceramic and hardwood and even sheet goods need to be installed properly with proper sound isolation being installed in between the concrete (or wood etc.) to isolate the noise and prevent sound transmission. it's the same with walls and ceilings - roxul properly installed instead of cheap batt insulation and enclosing electrical outlets and not installing them back to back and actually complying with building code requirements to maintain fire separations etc.

    these things not only make spaces "childproof" for others in the building, they ensure everyone's spaces are quieter all around, more energy efficient and provide better fire and life safety for their occupants than banning children.
    Last edited by kcantor; 06-04-2017 at 01:04 PM.
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  81. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ...what is childlike is not their running, it is what I am reading here as to why a basic Human Right that other Provinces recognize is now being opposed to by people who think that age discrimination is acceptable.
    Forcing people to no longer be allowed to live in a building that does not permit children, is a form of age discrimination. You seem to value children and families with children, ahead of adults who don't have children who prefer to live in buildings that have no children. I don't think that's fair at all, its discrimination wrapped up in human rights garbage. Other provinces may tolerate that, but Alberta doesn't have to. We should be more tolerant and allow people to live how they choose, where they choose, not force them to live next door to children because of some socialist community engineering goal.
    Your lack of awareness of what you say sometimes amazes me. You say people should be able to live where they choose then you say people with children should not be able to choose (or by default adult buildings take that choice away). Then in other posts you seem to think it would be O.K. to be able to play loud music whenever you want in an adult building but children playing/crying would not be O.K. The world does not revolve around your loud music. I should imagine you would get punched in the face by some onery tenant if you played loud music at 3.00 a.m. on a Wednesday morning. Then again, to you, it would be O.K. at least it's not a baby crying. Do yourself and everyone else a favor. Buy a pair of headphones then mind your own business.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    As someone who grew up on an acreage with the exact opposite of helicopter parents I lack a frame of reference or experience on this, but at what age would the parents in the thread feel safe about a child walking 600-1000m to a playground & across a busy 6-lane commuter arterial street without adult supervision?
    Depends on the age, but why not walk with them and go enjoy the outdoors? In Paris or Toyko kids take subways, walk to parks of equal distance and can read walk or no walk signs. Are Edmonton kids different?

    We have a park across the street as well.

    With regards to noise from above, this is awesome!

    http://www.today.com/home/what-your-...g-there-t13926
    Last edited by IanO; 06-04-2017 at 01:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    As someone who grew up on an acreage with the exact opposite of helicopter parents I lack a frame of reference or experience on this, but at what age would the parents in the thread feel safe about a child walking 600-1000m to a playground & across a busy 6-lane commuter arterial street without adult supervision?
    i'm not sure at what age but it would probably be the same age whether they were walking from a house or an apartment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.
    so is the real issue the fact that babies cry - which they do - or that you might hear it (which you shouldn't)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.
    Food, water, medication and shelter, a basic human right for everyone in western civilization. Headphones come in a variety of prices and if it's the middle of the night ear plugs are very cheap.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.
    so is the real issue the fact that babies cry - which they do - or that you might hear it (which you shouldn't)?
    Both...I don't want.to.hear.them.Ken..I'm allowed to feel that way..I raised mine.

    I think they should be allowed in every single eatery though, with no exceptions. Ian would love love love that!

  88. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Depends on the age, but why not walk with them and go enjoy the outdoors? In Paris or Toyko kids take subways, walk to parks of equal distance and can read walk or no walk signs. Are Edmonton kids different?
    Because parents often have stuff to do while their kids go out & play & enjoy themselves. Hard to do laundry or get dinner ready when you have to escort your child to & from the neighborhood park. It's almost as if you're being ridiculously & intentionally unaware of the time & effort it takes to maintain a household while raising children. You say things are 10 minutes away when they're 20 & completely ignore the extra time & effort involved in wrangling a child in & outta their jackets & herding them to their destinations, adding yet more time & effort you're not accounting for. I feel sorry for any children you may have as you seem to have a very idyllic version of child-rearing in your head that isn't congruent or compatible with reality. And I'm going to completely ignore your attempts to draw parallels between actual urban centers of millions of people through a complete disregard of context. Because of reasons we've gone over again & again.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    We have a park across the street as well.
    Not a playground. I mean, look at this paradise for children to play in:



    OH BOY! Who needs Disneyland when you have concrete planters and a gazebo, amirite?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.
    Food, water, medication and shelter, a basic human right for everyone in western civilization. Headphones come in a variety of prices and if it's the middle of the night ear plugs are very cheap.

    I can't wear earplugs..

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Depends on the age, but why not walk with them and go enjoy the outdoors? In Paris or Toyko kids take subways, walk to parks of equal distance and can read walk or no walk signs. Are Edmonton kids different?
    Because parents often have stuff to do while their kids go out & play & enjoy themselves. Hard to do laundry or get dinner ready when you have to escort your child to & from the neighborhood park. It's almost as if you're being ridiculously & intentionally unaware of the time & effort it takes to maintain a household while raising children. You say things are 10 minutes away when they're 20 & completely ignore the extra time & effort involved in wrangling a child in & outta their jackets & herding them to their destinations, adding yet more time & effort you're not accounting for. I feel sorry for any children you may have as you seem to have a very idyllic version of child-rearing in your head that isn't congruent or compatible with reality. And I'm going to completely ignore your attempts to draw parallels between actual urban centers of millions of people through a complete disregard of context. Because of reasons we've gone over again & again.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    We have a park across the street as well.
    Not a playground. I mean, look at this paradise for children to play in:



    OH BOY! Who needs Disneyland when you have concrete planters and a gazebo, amirite?

    So inviting....

  91. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    i'm not sure at what age but it would probably be the same age whether they were walking from a house or an apartment.
    But the odds of a child having to deal with said 6-lane, busy arterial to get to a playground are far lower in a house-centric neighbourhood. If a kid Downtown wants to get to Grandin to play, they gotta cross 109 St at a minimum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.
    so is the real issue the fact that babies cry - which they do - or that you might hear it (which you shouldn't)?
    Both...I don't want.to.hear.them.Ken..I'm allowed to feel that way..I raised mine.

    I think they should be allowed in every single eatery though, with no exceptions. Ian would love love love that!
    I would love more family friendly establishments and like anything or anyone, it comes down to how parents or people choose to let others act or how considerate they are if someone is being loud.
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    Amazing.

    No crackheads from the Dockside in that photo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Depends on the age, but why not walk with them and go enjoy the outdoors? In Paris or Toyko kids take subways, walk to parks of equal distance and can read walk or no walk signs. Are Edmonton kids different?
    Because parents often have stuff to do while their kids go out & play & enjoy themselves. Hard to do laundry or get dinner ready when you have to escort your child to & from the neighborhood park. It's almost as if you're being ridiculously & intentionally unaware of the time & effort it takes to maintain a household while raising children. You say things are 10 minutes away when they're 20 & completely ignore the extra time & effort involved in wrangling a child in & outta their jackets & herding them to their destinations, adding yet more time & effort you're not accounting for. I feel sorry for any children you may have as you seem to have a very idyllic version of child-rearing in your head that isn't congruent or compatible with reality. And I'm going to completely ignore your attempts to draw parallels between actual urban centers of millions of people through a complete disregard of context. Because of reasons we've gone over again & again.

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    We have a park across the street as well.
    Not a playground. I mean, look at this paradise for children to play in:



    OH BOY! Who needs Disneyland when you have concrete planters and a gazebo, amirite?

    So inviting....
    Dick Mather is WELL used by our community thank you very much with many young parents/kids, tons of dogs and many enjoying the sun, grass and inviting nature of it.

    We are also in the process of working towards a small playground for this park.
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  95. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Amazing.

    No crackheads from the Dockside in that photo.
    I actually moved the vantage point to exclude this gentleman.

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    Top_Dawg knew something was fishy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.
    Food, water, medication and shelter, a basic human right for everyone in western civilization. Headphones come in a variety of prices and if it's the middle of the night ear plugs are very cheap.

    I can't wear earplugs..
    Well, no doubt you could be like moa. If a kid is making a noise why not play loud music to drown it out. If you had moa for a neighbor they would fully understand your reasoning.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  98. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    You can complain and control loud music , you cannot complain about a baby crying loudly, , they cry.
    so is the real issue the fact that babies cry - which they do - or that you might hear it (which you shouldn't)?
    Both...I don't want.to.hear.them.Ken..I'm allowed to feel that way..I raised mine.

    I think they should be allowed in every single eatery though, with no exceptions. Ian would love love love that!

    And some would say that; 'seniors whine and ***** over every little thing'.

    My father once built and owned an apartment building downtown. He was proud of the fact that at the time it was the one of the closest new apartment buildings to the downtown at the time. Then my dad would tell the story of talking with 'old man Melton' with my father saying that he was going to get seniors into the building and Melton saying he was crazy, that old people just sit around finding things wrong and that they'd be calling up my dad day and night. Stuff like: 'It's too hot, it's too cold...'. Melton said he should fill it with young people since they are too busy to care...".

    My dad also had the story of having to go to the building to tell some girls in the building that a neighbour had complained that they had some boys over..."

  99. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Top_Dawg knew something was fishy.
    Yeah, as I was looking for the park on google maps & how to best frame it's complete lack of accommodation for children he popped up in the one shot. I didn't wanna be accused of editorializing my screenshot, so I posted it head-on instead, but you sniffed it out!
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    Gemini.We have rules about noise. We follow those rules. You cannot make a baby follow a rule about noise. I love my grandchildren, happy to see them anytime, also happy to say bye bye. Do you not get what I'm saying? I choose not to live with children. Don't tell make to go to bed with headphones etc, get a place that will allow your kid!l

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