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Thread: Premier Notley's Second Year

  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    I support the need for meaningful action to fight climate change. The suite of measures in Alberta's climate leadership plan are the strongest in Canada, and significantly stronger than BC's.

    But I also support the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

    All of the other pipeline expansion projects ship Alberta's oil into the US where domestic oil production recently topped 10 million barrels per day, and where demand for our oil is likely to begin shrinking rather than expanding in the coming years.

    Only the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion gets Alberta oil to Canadian tidewater for export to the US West Coast and the Asia-Pacific where oil demand is forecast to keep growing for decades to come.

    If Canada can't even get a desperately needed pipeline built within our own borders, what message does this send about our country being a good place to invest and do business?
    Well said.

  2. #1002

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    I support the need for meaningful action to fight climate change. The suite of measures in Alberta's climate leadership plan are the strongest in Canada, and significantly stronger than BC's.

    But I also support the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

    All of the other pipeline expansion projects ship Alberta's oil into the US where domestic oil production recently topped 10 million barrels per day, and where demand for our oil is likely to begin shrinking rather than expanding in the coming years.

    Only the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion gets Alberta oil to Canadian tidewater for export to the US West Coast and the Asia-Pacific where oil demand is forecast to keep growing for decades to come.

    If Canada can't even get a desperately needed pipeline built within our own borders, what message does this send about our country being a good place to invest and do business?
    The Trans Mountain pipeline expansion and meaningful action to fight climate change are not compatible with each other. The reasons for this are evident in what you said: it is impossible to reduce GHG emissions while at the same time increasing oil production for decades to come. You can't have both.

  3. #1003
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    No Top_Dawg has to disagree.

    We very well can have both.

    With the scrubber technology already available today emissions are a small fraction of what they once were.

    This technology is continuously improving and ultimately it will be such that emissions will be eliminated entirely.

    It is not far off.

  4. #1004

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    No Top_Dawg has to disagree.

    We very well can have both.

    With the scrubber technology already available today emissions are a small fraction of what they once were.

    This technology is continuously improving and ultimately it will be such that emissions will be eliminated entirely.

    It is not far off.
    Well OffWhyte has to disagree with Top_Dawg.

    Scrubbers reduce SO2 emissions during upgrading, not C02 emissions (source). While this is a good thing it does very little to reduce GHG emissions.

    More and more oil sands production is coming from in situ techniques rather than surface mining and in situ techniques are more intensive in terms of GHG emissions. This means unless production is limited GHG emissions will continue to rise. Here is one projection from the Council of Canadian Academies which was tasked by the Harper government to look into the environmental impact of the oil sands (original report is here).


    (Source: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle24652509/)

  5. #1005
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    Pawns of the fanatics. I am tired of Albertans who owe their lifestyle to industries here being self-righteous.

    http://business.financialpost.com/op...t-was-the-plan

  6. #1006

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    "All must bow down to oil! Oil is all, oil is life! From oil all springs, to oil all must return!"
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  7. #1007
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    Tediously pedantic.

    I was blessed to be born here as a result of my grandparents coming from Ukraine before the First World War for a better life. I am so fortunate to be a product of the Alberta public school system and then university at Carleton and U of T. I have been a self-employed professional in Edmonton for the past 36 years and have had and wish to continue to have a fantastic life until I must pass.

    To be lectured by people who ignore reality gets under my skin particularly when I drive by Alberta Works almost every weekday and see Albertans lined up looking for work. And not just "unemployed oilpatch workers" as if there is anything wrong with that vocation. Ordinary people trying to find work to feed themselves and their families.

    I have been a card-carrying Liberal for every one of those 36 years but if the brand of "crazy" being peddled by Ottawa about business and industry continues much longer I will not be voting that way again soon and will never vote for the NDP nor the CONS.

  8. #1008

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    I support the need for meaningful action to fight climate change. The suite of measures in Alberta's climate leadership plan are the strongest in Canada, and significantly stronger than BC's.

    But I also support the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

    All of the other pipeline expansion projects ship Alberta's oil into the US where domestic oil production recently topped 10 million barrels per day, and where demand for our oil is likely to begin shrinking rather than expanding in the coming years.

    Only the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion gets Alberta oil to Canadian tidewater for export to the US West Coast and the Asia-Pacific where oil demand is forecast to keep growing for decades to come.

    If Canada can't even get a desperately needed pipeline built within our own borders, what message does this send about our country being a good place to invest and do business?
    Well said.
    I agree to. The all or nothing ideologues on either side are a bit tiring. I realize there are legitimate concerns about shipping off the coast of BC, but its not the North Atlantic full of icebergs and the ships are not the Titanic. I think those fears have been overblown to suit the political agenda of some in BC who really just want to stop oil production and pipelines for other reasons.

  9. #1009

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post

    To be lectured by people who ignore reality gets under my skin particularly when I drive by Alberta Works almost every weekday and see Albertans lined up looking for work. And not just "unemployed oilpatch workers" as if there is anything wrong with that vocation. Ordinary people trying to find work to feed themselves and their families.
    You're the one ignoring reality, what with Alberta's economy being what it is & what our trajectory is forecast to be. You make it seem like we're not adding a ton of new jobs, which is untrue. There are 28,000 more fulltime jobs in Alberta now than a month ago. Our unemployment keeps dropping & is 1.7 points lower than it was a year ago. We're poised to lead the entire country in economic growth this year. But I guess your personal anecdotes about the people you pass by refutes all the numbers & statistics completely & utterly. Oh no, wait, it doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I have been a card-carrying Liberal for every one of those 36 years but if the brand of "crazy" being peddled by Ottawa about business and industry continues much longer I will not be voting that way again soon and will never vote for the NDP nor the CONS.
    So you'll just not vote? Take your ball & go home? Suit yourself.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  10. #1010
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    I should know by now to never argue with idiots because they will beat you with their experience every time....

  11. #1011

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I should know by now to never argue with idiots because they will beat you with their experience every time....
    Ah, the personal dig after I refute your pearl-clutching "won't anyone think of the jobs" nonsense with actual economic indicators.

    Thanks for throwing in the towel!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  12. #1012
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    Let me see the hypocrisy from the 'pot calling the kettle black':

    "...pull that huge stick outta your ***"

    "Dial back the crazy...."

    "...pearl-clutching...."

    Look in the mirror.

  13. #1013
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    The chart from the Canadian Council of Academies study in #1004 was completed 3 years ago.

    A lot has changed since then. Some changes are policy-driven. The 100 megatonne oil sands emissions cap that is part of the Climate Leadership Plan. The phase-out of coal for Alberta electricity generation which until recent years was a bigger contributor to GHG emissions than the oilsands. And yes shifting consumer behaviour by putting a tax on carbon emissions.

    Other changes are technology-driven. Likely the most significant is a longer-term shift away the oil sands as an energy source (both mining and in-situ) in favour of shale oil.

    https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNe...BN1FI0G7-OCATP

  14. #1014

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Let me see the hypocrisy from the 'pot calling the kettle black':

    "...pull that huge stick outta your ***"
    Response to your lashing out in a personal attack the post prior which contained zero actual facts, just subjective personal digs. You got super ornery after I pointed out you use a logical fallacy to dismiss people who disagree with you unfairly & then made a joke regarding your inability to discern between homonyms.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    "Dial back the crazy...."
    You literally told me to GTFO because I don't believe we should unconditionally kowtow to the petrochemical industry, which is ludicrous & illogical at best. Apologies for the turn of phrase I used regarding your nonsensical suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    "...pearl-clutching...."
    Adjective applying to the nonsense, not to you as an individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Look in the mirror.
    Done. I'm pretty okay with how this has turned out, what with you speaking in platitudes & anecdotes that I refuted with facts, admittedly with some spin & loaded words, because your untenable position is so removed from reality.

    Your turn.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  15. #1015

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Pawns of the fanatics. I am tired of Albertans who owe their lifestyle to industries here being self-righteous.

    http://business.financialpost.com/op...t-was-the-plan
    "an aggressive radical campaign by green extremists to rip up the Canadian economy" ... "more than a decade of gross disinformation, quasi-illegal activity and backroom political campaigns funded by Americans" ... etc

    Laughable. Terence Corcoran needs to line up at the tin foil hat section of his local Walmart.

  16. #1016
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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    The chart from the Canadian Council of Academies study in #1004 was completed 3 years ago.

    A lot has changed since then. Some changes are policy-driven. The 100 megatonne oil sands emissions cap that is part of the Climate Leadership Plan. The phase-out of coal for Alberta electricity generation which until recent years was a bigger contributor to GHG emissions than the oilsands. And yes shifting consumer behaviour by putting a tax on carbon emissions.

    Other changes are technology-driven. Likely the most significant is a longer-term shift away the oil sands as an energy source (both mining and in-situ) in favour of shale oil.

    https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNe...BN1FI0G7-OCATP
    Another good post

  17. #1017

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I should know by now to never argue with idiots because they will beat you with their experience every time....
    ZING........................................
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  18. #1018

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I should know by now to never argue with idiots because they will beat you with their experience every time....
    You should know by now to never argue on the internet using someone else's words without attributing it properly. It's just too easy to get caught.

  19. #1019
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    Another prime example of someone with the requisite "experience."

  20. #1020

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Another prime example of someone with the requisite "experience."
    So you deny borrowing from Mark Twain?

  21. #1021
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    That phrase is so well known that it's part of the lexicon of anyone who falls prey to arguing with noodle and you.

  22. #1022

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I should know by now to never argue with idiots because they will beat you with their experience every time....
    You should know by now to never argue on the internet using someone else's words without attributing it properly. It's just too easy to get caught.
    Well YEG is not really parroting Mark Twain. Sure Twain said something similar but definitely not the same wording.

    What Mark Twain said was:

    “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

    See the difference.

    By the way OffWhyte, when a guy in another thread asked you if you were from out of province you sarcastically replied 'what do you think with a name like OffWhyte'. That might not be the same terminology but it was on those lines.
    Actually I thought 'OffWhyte' was referring to the colour of your undies. Never mind though, that's just me.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  23. #1023

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Another prime example of someone with the requisite "experience."
    So you deny borrowing from Mark Twain?
    We got a live one here.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  24. #1024

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    Another prime example of someone with the requisite "experience."
    Gotta say it, well done. That was a nice follow up.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  25. #1025
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    People,

    Please stop with the insults. Thanks.
    Ow

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    I haven't logged in for 2 months Admin, why don't you ******* do something about the same old trolls here?

    I'm done here. Some people will be happy. Good. Take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle. Some people might miss my posts. Sorry. Too bad. Just the way it rolls I guess.

    I've been on dozens of forums over the last 20 years but the personal attacks you let the same few consistent asswipes get away with in the name of "free speech" is absolute sick. There IS a point to ending it. Is this the only forum on the internet that lets users get away with personal attacks over and over again? And I'll repeat, take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle.

    So anyway, nice knowing you all, it was a fun time the last 7 years or so and I learnt a lot about the city I love. I guess that's the main thing. But I cannot be a member of this **** show anymore.
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

  27. #1027

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I should know by now to never argue with idiots because they will beat you with their experience every time....
    You should know by now to never argue on the internet using someone else's words without attributing it properly. It's just too easy to get caught.
    Well YEG is not really parroting Mark Twain. Sure Twain said something similar but definitely not the same wording.
    I see an overwhelming similarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    What Mark Twain said was:

    “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

    See the difference.
    That's exactly the same defense Melania Trump and her entourage claimed.

    "In writing her beautiful speech, Melania's team of writers took notes on her life's inspirations, and in some instances included fragments that reflected her own thinking," (Trump senior communications adviser Jason) Miller said.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rism/87278088/

  28. #1028

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    ^I'll start listening to Cry me a River by Ray Charles.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  29. #1029

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    That phrase is so well known that it's part of the lexicon of anyone who falls prey to arguing with noodle and you.
    Fascinating. Although a Google search of connect2edmonton.ca reveals no more than one other post using the same phrase--and in that case at least it was attributed properly to Mark Twain. I think you are not able to claim prior art here.

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...wall&styleid=5

  30. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I'll start listening to Cry me a River by Ray Charles.
    I always liked Jane Morgan's version of that song.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  31. #1031

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    ^Well never heard that version or that lady as a matter of fact. Maybe one of these days I'll track it down on YouTube.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  32. #1032

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    I haven't logged in for 2 months Admin, why don't you ******* do something about the same old trolls here?

    I'm done here. Some people will be happy. Good. Take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle. Some people might miss my posts. Sorry. Too bad. Just the way it rolls I guess.

    I've been on dozens of forums over the last 20 years but the personal attacks you let the same few consistent asswipes get away with in the name of "free speech" is absolute sick. There IS a point to ending it. Is this the only forum on the internet that lets users get away with personal attacks over and over again? And I'll repeat, take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle.

    So anyway, nice knowing you all, it was a fun time the last 7 years or so and I learnt a lot about the city I love. I guess that's the main thing. But I cannot be a member of this **** show anymore.
    Not many people I would be saying this to but it's to bad you are doing that Kitlope. I could count on one hand the number of guys on here that actually looked at things from another point of view let alone a women's point of view. Any who, best thing to do is just take no notice of the jack*sses on the forum. We are all adults and can read so we know who they are. There not really fooling anyone. Their soul purpose in life is to make people as miserable as they are. They get their jollies that way. Just read what they have to say then laugh and shake your head, put them on ignore. Give them the middle finger. You're a trillion times better than any of them that's for sure.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  33. #1033

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post

    To be lectured by people who ignore reality gets under my skin particularly when I drive by Alberta Works almost every weekday and see Albertans lined up looking for work. And not just "unemployed oilpatch workers" as if there is anything wrong with that vocation. Ordinary people trying to find work to feed themselves and their families.
    You're the one ignoring reality, what with Alberta's economy being what it is & what our trajectory is forecast to be. You make it seem like we're not adding a ton of new jobs, which is untrue. There are 28,000 more fulltime jobs in Alberta now than a month ago. Our unemployment keeps dropping & is 1.7 points lower than it was a year ago. We're poised to lead the entire country in economic growth this year. But I guess your personal anecdotes about the people you pass by refutes all the numbers & statistics completely & utterly. Oh no, wait, it doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    I have been a card-carrying Liberal for every one of those 36 years but if the brand of "crazy" being peddled by Ottawa about business and industry continues much longer I will not be voting that way again soon and will never vote for the NDP nor the CONS.
    So you'll just not vote? Take your ball & go home? Suit yourself.
    Short term numbers may not tell the story. In absolute numbers how has Alberta performed over the past few years? Plus like anecdotes, forecasted don’t put food on the table today.
    Last edited by KC; 10-02-2018 at 08:04 AM.

  34. #1034

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    I haven't logged in for 2 months Admin, why don't you ******* do something about the same old trolls here?

    I'm done here. Some people will be happy. Good. Take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle. Some people might miss my posts. Sorry. Too bad. Just the way it rolls I guess.

    I've been on dozens of forums over the last 20 years but the personal attacks you let the same few consistent asswipes get away with in the name of "free speech" is absolute sick. There IS a point to ending it. Is this the only forum on the internet that lets users get away with personal attacks over and over again? And I'll repeat, take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle.

    So anyway, nice knowing you all, it was a fun time the last 7 years or so and I learnt a lot about the city I love. I guess that's the main thing. But I cannot be a member of this **** show anymore.
    Good luck.

    If you return, please cut out the very crap that you are accusing others of spewing. That is, if you want it to stop - or rather - at least not have your anonymous label attached to any of it.

    It is interesting to see how free speech works - and doesn’t work- and how many people get very tired of the use of free speech by others attacking everything. Hence the calls to create safe places on universities, forums, etc.
    Last edited by KC; 10-02-2018 at 08:15 AM.

  35. #1035

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    I haven't logged in for 2 months Admin, why don't you ******* do something about the same old trolls here?

    I'm done here. Some people will be happy. Good. Take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle. Some people might miss my posts. Sorry. Too bad. Just the way it rolls I guess.

    I've been on dozens of forums over the last 20 years but the personal attacks you let the same few consistent asswipes get away with in the name of "free speech" is absolute sick. There IS a point to ending it. Is this the only forum on the internet that lets users get away with personal attacks over and over again? And I'll repeat, take a long hard suck on my dick Noodle.

    So anyway, nice knowing you all, it was a fun time the last 7 years or so and I learnt a lot about the city I love. I guess that's the main thing. But I cannot be a member of this **** show anymore.
    Good luck.

    If you return, please cut out the very crap that you are accusing others of spewing. That is, if you want it to stop - or rather - at least not have your anonymous label attached to any of it.

    It is interesting to see how free speech works - and doesn’t work- and how many people get very tired of the use of free speech by others attacking everything. Hence the calls to create safe places on universities, forums, etc.
    Ahh, but with the proviso that the poster that I won't name (and obviously don't need to) has it as his self stated goal, which he's stated frequently, to harangue those he disagrees with until they either stop posting at all, or stop posting anything he disagrees with, then that arguably is a concern. That has not got anything to do with free speech. Its a stated and operative attempt to suppress the speech of others while engaging in non stop labeling, insults, strawman argument etc. Just that some of us are less repressible..

    What I have expressed prior though is that not everybody is prepared to come here and be insulted every day of the week just for discussing something here and expressing an opinion. Most individuals wouldn't find that a pleasant or desired experience. Friction and calling out others invariably occurs but for that to be a constant behavior with some posters has certainly been raised regularly here as an issue.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-02-2018 at 11:46 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  36. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    There are 28,000 more fulltime jobs in Alberta now than a month ago. Our unemployment keeps dropping & is 1.7 points lower than it was a year ago. We're poised to lead the entire country in economic growth this year.
    Yes, but a lot of these new jobs and economic growth is the result of a modest recovery in oil, natural gas and related industries. A recovery that is increasingly under threat unless Alberta can break its land lock and obtain improved tidewater access.

    Alberta crude oil has always been priced at a discount to WTI (US) and Brent (European). But the differential is rapidly becoming a chasm with Alberta crude oil of all grades in recent months fetching only about half of the prices being obtained by US Gulf States producers.

    https://oilprice.com/oil-price-charts/block/49

  37. #1037
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    Alberta is still at a 7% unemployment rate. How is that good news?

    How many jobs were lost in the Albert hospitality industry due to the last minimum wage increase because of this Govt?

    How many more jobs are going to be lost in other sectors, when small business takes another hit when min wage goes to $15 in October?

    Anyone want to bet that our Provincial credit rating will be taken down another notch when the minimum wage goes up?
    Last edited by envaneo; 12-02-2018 at 11:18 PM.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  38. #1038

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    Notley gives Ottawa and B.C. days to sort out the pipeline spat or more retaliation.




    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...talk-pipelines
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

  39. #1039
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    ^ Not casting my anger on you, but what can she do succeed from the Union?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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