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Thread: Premier Notley's Second Year

  1. #701

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    Bingo.

    There's also people who work for the government & aren't unionized nor are they anywhere near the sunshine list level of compensation. They've already had freezes, their variable pay reduced/removed & so forth in the last two years, but because they're outside the scope of the unions they're effectively on their own & as mid-level employees they don't have enough weight on their own to affect any change for themselves. Meanwhile the right-wingers & quasi-conservatives call for rollbacks & more, making any progress or change politically volatile.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  2. #702

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita.
    Yes, yes, you've been quite clear in stating & restating your belief that the higher wages & standard of living should apply to all Albertans except for those that work for the government (or unions), because the government/unions is evil or they're all lazy or some other claptrap you've gleaned from the National Post or the Sun or The Rebel or wherever you get your dose of conservative rhetoric.

    *YAWN*
    Average per capital wages in the private sector in Alberta are also higher than the average of other provinces. Say if those above average in the private sector are all willing to take say a 15% cut, then it would make sense for the government to do like wise. If they are not willing, then they shouldn't whine about it.
    A lot of people in the private sector, who still have jobs (unlike government workers whose positions are guaranteed for life), have taken cuts in that region.

    http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...rpaid-oilpatch

    Canada’s largest independent oil and gas producer revealed staff at its offices in Calgary and Aberdeen in Scotland will have their pay cut by as much as 10 per cent as it opts to reduce salaries rather than eliminate staff to align its cost structure with what’s seen as the new normal for oil prices.
    PHX Energy Services, which cut salaries 20 per cent earlier this year, blamed the uncertainty around oil prices as it laid off nearly half its workforce Friday, cutting more than 500 jobs. With the oil price plunge, job security has become a major preoccupation across the oil and gas industry – and for good reason. Those aren’t jobs you’d want to lose.
    The government can cut wages, or cut staff, by not taking action sooner, Notley is just forcing more pain when a fiscally responsible government comes in. The private sector has right sized, its been painful. Its the governments turn now, because it is $10b a year unsustainable right now, about two LRT lines every year of over spending.
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-11-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  3. #703

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    "Guaranteed for life"

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    "fiscally responsible"

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHAHAHAHHA

    You're hilarious moa, that's the funniest thing you've said since "tax cuts pay for themselves".
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Tax and spend is right out of the Left playbook.
    So we should tax & not spend? Spend & not tax? What's your right-wing playbook on this?
    I'm not Right Wing. I'm Centre. I'm more of a Ed Stelmach kind of guy. In my wheelhouse we leave the coal industry alone, no pst for starters.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  5. #705

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita.
    Yes, yes, you've been quite clear in stating & restating your belief that the higher wages & standard of living should apply to all Albertans except for those that work for the government (or unions), because the government/unions is evil or they're all lazy or some other claptrap you've gleaned from the National Post or the Sun or The Rebel or wherever you get your dose of conservative rhetoric.

    *YAWN*
    Average per capital wages in the private sector in Alberta are also higher than the average of other provinces. Say if those above average in the private sector are all willing to take say a 15% cut, then it would make sense for the government to do like wise. If they are not willing, then they shouldn't whine about it.
    A lot of people in the private sector, who still have jobs (unlike government workers whose positions are guaranteed for life), have taken cuts in that region.

    http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...rpaid-oilpatch

    Canada’s largest independent oil and gas producer revealed staff at its offices in Calgary and Aberdeen in Scotland will have their pay cut by as much as 10 per cent as it opts to reduce salaries rather than eliminate staff to align its cost structure with what’s seen as the new normal for oil prices.
    PHX Energy Services, which cut salaries 20 per cent earlier this year, blamed the uncertainty around oil prices as it laid off nearly half its workforce Friday, cutting more than 500 jobs. With the oil price plunge, job security has become a major preoccupation across the oil and gas industry – and for good reason. Those aren’t jobs you’d want to lose.
    The government can cut wages, or cut staff, by not taking action sooner, Notley is just forcing more pain when a fiscally responsible government comes in. The private sector has right sized, its been painful. Its the governments turn now, because it is $10b a year unsustainable right now, about two LRT lines every year of over spending.
    I doubt the UCP will be any more "fiscally responsible" than its predecessor party which which was running deficits for years when oil was still close to $100/barrel. At least the current government has the excuse of much lower oil prices.

    Even with some cuts in the private sector, average Alberta wages are still above the average of other provinces (now only 15% above vs. 20% previously).

    I have a feeling with oil prices starting to increase, some of those private sector cuts will soon be reversed. I guess it makes sense for people in the energy industry to get paid more to ride the oil and gas roller coaster, but not everyone else in the province is paid as well and doesn't benefit as much from the upside.

  6. #706

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    That's their own dumb fault for not riding the oil train Dave, just like those lazy union workers & parasitic government employees!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  7. #707
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    ^ Lazy union workers? That's very un left wing of you noodle.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  8. #708

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Tax and spend is right out of the Left playbook.
    So we should tax & not spend? Spend & not tax? What's your right-wing playbook on this?
    I'm not Right Wing. I'm Centre. I'm more of a Ed Stelmach kind of guy. In my wheelhouse we leave the coal industry alone, no pst for starters.
    I'm actually not a big fan of PST myself either but my point for those people who don't want a deficit is we have choices. As I see it we actually have three choices: first, belt tightening and gradually reducing the deficit as the economy improves; second, large cuts to services to eliminate the deficit faster or third, get a new revenue source such as PST to the eliminate the deficit.

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    ^ The AG will have a new revenue source called Pot.
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  10. #710

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ lazy union workers? That's very un left wing of you noodle.
    *whooooosh*
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    That's their own dumb fault for not riding the oil train Dave, just like those lazy union workers & parasitic government employees!
    The only parasites I recall are those thrown out of office in Alberta and Ottawa most recently.

  12. #712

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    I didn't think I'd have to start labeling my sarcasm as sarcasm, but I guess I should going forward.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  13. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    I'm actually not a big fan of PST myself either but my point for those people who don't want a deficit is we have choices. As I see it we actually have three choices: first, belt tightening and gradually reducing the deficit as the economy improves; second, large cuts to services to eliminate the deficit faster or third, get a new revenue source such as PST to the eliminate the deficit.
    No one wants to pay more taxes. But this province has a serious public revenue problem that won't be fixed by belt tightening and an improving economy alone. The shale revolution has pretty much guaranteed that the world will never see $100 per barrel oil again and certainly not for a sustained period of time. This means that the oil and gas revenue windfall Alberta's public finances experienced during most of the 2000 to 2014 period is not likely to be repeated. A sales tax that brings our revenue streams closer to those of provinces like B.C. and Saskatchewan seems inevitable. I have this secret hope that at least one of Alberta's political parties recognizes this and makes the need for a sales tax into a major election issue in 2019.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I didn't think I'd have to start labeling my sarcasm as sarcasm, but I guess I should going forward.
    I thought it was pretty obvious.

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    ^ Me, too. Some on here wouldn't spot a bit of sarcasm if you bashed them over the head with it.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ lazy union workers? That's very un left wing of you noodle.
    *whooooosh*
    My attempt at subtle sarcasm, a bomb that never exploded. Sigh.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^and we all know what would happen if there was a PST. There would be no balanced budget, instead, there would be a ton of social housing going up all over the place and an end to the civil service pay freeze - the more money you give a drunken sailor, the more they spend.
    Yup, Illinois is a highly taxed state, with many toll roads, Chicago is tied for the worst taxes in any US city, both have extreme deficits, their roads are not particularly well maintained. They don't have a revenue problem, but like Alberta a spending problem.

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    LOL Think of the cash cow the QE 2 would generate as a toll road. The AG could nickel & dime us into the poor house.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  19. #719

    Default UCP MLA criticized for calling new Calgary Cancer Centre a 'fancy box'

    I don't know all the in's and out's of the design, but I think its reasonable that we ask some questions why an option that was bid $200m less and 8 months quicker completion, was not chosen over the PCL winning bid,

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...jken-1.4429381

    Describing the Calgary Cancer Centre as a "fancy box" in the legislature has brought a United Conservative Party MLA under fire from the provincial*Infrastructure minister.

    During question period Thursday, UCP MLA Glenn van Dijken asked Infrastructure Minister Sandra Jansen to explain why the NDP government had chosen to go with a $1.122-billion bid to build the cancer centre, which was $206 million more than the lowest option.

    "At the end of the day, we are building a box — mind you, a fancy box*—*to do the job of treating cancer patients," said van Dijken.

    In an interview with CBC News on Friday, Jansen said she was stunned by the comment.
    $200m is a heck of a lot of money. I sure hope this hospital doesn't end up going over budget and cost $1.5b... Oh well, its not like its our money, and its being built in Calgary which always gets the best stuff, so maybe its just a given...

  20. #720

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^and we all know what would happen if there was a PST. There would be no balanced budget, instead, there would be a ton of social housing going up all over the place and an end to the civil service pay freeze - the more money you give a drunken sailor, the more they spend.
    Yup, Illinois is a highly taxed state, with many toll roads, Chicago is tied for the worst taxes in any US city, both have extreme deficits, their roads are not particularly well maintained. They don't have a revenue problem, but like Alberta a spending problem.
    The old "they don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem", must be one of the favorite cut and paste sayings of conservatives around the world, whether it is relevant or not. In Alberta's case when oil and natural gas prices went down considerably, so did royalties and other revenues to the province - so actually there is a revenue problem. You can ignore it or dismiss it with pithy conservative bromides, but it doesn't make it go away.

    Now I don't know anything about Illinois and what its fiscal situation is. I don't think it would be very comparable to Alberta - first the US system is a bit different than Canada's in terms of the taxes states can levy and I believe their economy is more manufacturing based as opposed to resource based. Perhaps their economy may be a bit more comparable to Ontario, but I doubt it is very similar to Alberta's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?

  22. #722
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    I do not think people disagree with paying for all of the above, the problem is that govt workers tend to have A) higher pay, B) higher levels of unionization , C) increased job security D) a publicly funded pension.

    I may have posted ( or may have read) that in Germany govt workers receive lower pay for recognition for job security. You simply cannot have everything.

  23. #723

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    Klein showed what cuts and deferred infrastructure maintenance can do.

    He was bringing an end to deficit spending and reliance on debt, and the majority of voters approved of his actions.

    He also showed what rising oil and gas prices can do. Remember that Klein’s glory years cane before the gory years of horizontal drilling crashed natural gas prices, and Klein’s term ended shortly before oil hit $140/bbl and ended well before oil prices crashed. Klein had pretty good “luck of curcumstance” going for him. However if prices hadn’t recovered he was doing what would have eventually been unavoidable, no matter who was in power. He was doing what seemed in the early 1990s to the majority of voters, like the only alternative at that time because the hoped for return to boom conditions and rising oil and gas prices then seemed to be dashed and resource price increases were not in the cards.

    Come coward the the election of the NDP and I would say that voters again voted for what they felt was an appropriate course of action.



    Klein served from 1992-2006 and in that time natural gas prices initially hovered aroun $2/GJ but spiked upwards to $4 then to $8 then to $14/GJ.



    And remember the earlyier says and the Canadian dollar moving down toward 50-cents/US - while our oil was priced in USD.




    https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/p...parabolic1.png
    Last edited by KC; 04-12-2017 at 12:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    I do not think people disagree with paying for all of the above, the problem is that govt workers tend to have A) higher pay, B) higher levels of unionization , C) increased job security D) a publicly funded pension.

    I may have posted ( or may have read) that in Germany govt workers receive lower pay for recognition for job security. You simply cannot have everything.
    Very good points! thankyou..

  25. #725

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Just because something is political suicide doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It really annoys me that all many Albertans see is green. Why care about our overall economy, the environment, or other people when you could have a few more dollars in your pocket?

    Is your solution to all budget problems to cut spending? Any time we have a shortfall cut school budgets, healthcare, government workers? Who needs well educated children, a healthy population, highways, roads, bridges, and a million other services the government provides that you probably don't even realize exist (after all if you can't directly see it's benefits to you what good could it possibly be)?
    I do not think people disagree with paying for all of the above, the problem is that govt workers tend to have A) higher pay, B) higher levels of unionization , C) increased job security D) a publicly funded pension.

    I may have posted ( or may have read) that in Germany govt workers receive lower pay for recognition for job security. You simply cannot have everything.
    Very good points! thankyou..
    Well, a key assumption for this to work well is that other sectors have stable level of pay, maybe that is the case in Germany I don't know, but in Alberta the energy industry fluctuates a lot. Say year one is a good year and the energy worker makes $100,000 and the government worker makes $75,000. Now lets say the energy sector has a bad year and they only make $65,000 in year two. What do we do then, cut the government workers pay by $10,000? To further complicate this say in year 3 the energy sector recovers somewhat and the energy worker makes $80,000.

    Another logical problem is that some people say introducing a PST will only cause governments to spend more. It has been pointed out the Ontario and BC both spend less per capita than Alberta and they have PST or the provincial component of GST, so it actually seems to have the opposite effect in practice.

    I also think Ontario and BC may have much lower per capita spending as their population is more concentrated in small regions of their provinces (lower mainland and GTA). It is probably cheaper/easier to deliver services in large urban areas. The per capita difference between Alberta and other provinces is not as great. It is closer to 15%, which is the average wage difference between Alberta and the rest of Canada.

  26. #726

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    Great points!

    However, in Alberta energy prices have driven population growth and so the demand for more nurses, teachers, development officers, etc. Everything in the government and the private sector expands. Unfortunately the nature of government services is that much increased demand does not then shrink with falling energy prices. It’s like a couple that gets paid a great income for a few years and goes out and mortgages their future on a huge house, has more kids etc. And when theirr income tumbles they are stuck with their past decisions.

    Here, when oil and gas prices are high, capital rushes into the province, royalty and land sales revenues spike upwards, the government of the day embraces oil sector expansion and the government does all it can to facilitate new labour coming to the province. Those workers buy houses, create demands for new, bigger and better infrastructure, new schools, new hospitals new or expanded water treatment plants, landfills, you name it - population increases and a vibrant economy drive up costs of living and create long-term commitments and major government budgetary problems.

    When oil prices tumble those in the private sector find their work slows down or vanishes and they take pay cuts to keep their jobs but they don’t stop going to the hospital or sending their kids to school. That demand stays near constant.

    Industry attracts people here and that forces government to take on debt to expand everything for those new people. They create lasting demand while the industry walks away from Alberta. Industry simply sells off, writes off and lays off money losers and often just leaves. Albertans though don’t like seeing lives crash, house values and all other asset values crashing, so the government is expected to pick up the slack.

    So to base government spending which by its nature is very different from the economics of an energy sector that is historically and predictably extremely volatile due to the nature of the commodities is just foolish mismanagement.
    Last edited by KC; 04-12-2017 at 05:38 PM.

  27. #727

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    ^population growth doesn't explain why our government spends considerably more per capita than average for Canada. There is a ton of waste right now, but lets see what the UCP does. I expect they will tell every government department find 20% to 25% savings. Some government departments can probably even be eliminated. It wouldn't surprise me if government departments are all ramping up their spends right now in anticipation of it happening, so that they come down from a higher base. There have been massive cut backs in spending in the private sector, the same has to happen in the public sector, we just can't afford the price we are being charged - lets face it, even though we pay more, the service is no better than what other provinces get, so we are overpaying right now.
    Last edited by moahunter; 04-12-2017 at 05:56 PM.

  28. #728

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    Yeah, under the UCP we can expect a lot of layoffs and salary cuts (directly or via privatization).

    I can’t see any alternative. I’d expect a possible furthering of the NDP’s tax rate cuts to small business tax rates and a reversal of the NDPs larger business tax increases.

    Also doing away with the Carbon Tax which has been as close as we could ever have expected to getting a provincial sales tax.

    Then the UCP will stop borrowing.

    So that means a massive reduction in assured government revenues in the hopes of spurring on a massive expansion to make up the difference.

    It’s a gamble but it might work. It will create a lag when I’d expect a crashing if the Edmonton economy and house prices etc. But I’m often wrong on that predicting the future stuff.

  29. #729

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^population growth doesn't explain why our government spends considerably more per capita than average for Canada. There is a ton of waste right now, but lets see what the UCP does. I expect they will tell every government department find 20% to 25% savings. Some government departments can probably even be eliminated. It wouldn't surprise me if government departments are all ramping up their spends right now in anticipation of it happening, so that they come down from a higher base. There have been massive cut backs in spending in the private sector, the same has to happen in the public sector, we just can't afford the price we are being charged - lets face it, even though we pay more, the service is no better than what other provinces get, so we are overpaying right now.
    How much of the difference does population growth explain?

    Per capita still increases when there’s a heavy front loading of costs.

    Agree that when tens of billions of dollars are no longer flooding into the province, massive cuts are simply inevitable.
    Last edited by KC; 04-12-2017 at 06:22 PM.

  30. #730

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    Year 1992 = 2,543, 237
    Klein is elected and soon starts to take on the debt/deficit via cuts

    Year 2000 = 2,879,743
    Oil prices started to rise, positive oil developments started to occur

    Year 2015 = 4,108,400
    Reversal of oil prices

    1.2 million people increase since 2000.
    That’s like adding another Edmonton or Calgary to the province
    (since the point where Klein had cut costs and not received a major bailout by rising global oil and natural gas prices).

    Adding 1.3 million people represents a major expansion in necessary government services, schools, hospitals, infrastructure. Hiring the workers during a boom also embeds higher costs in the system in terms of pension obligations, etc.


    http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/...Population.pdf
    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...emo02a-eng.htm

  31. #731
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    So how much of the popular vote will Big Arse capture on Thursday ?

    Top_Dawg predicts he will get 67%.

    What do youz guyz think ?

  32. #732

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    ^82%. Turnout will be tiny.

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    Now that would be a stinging rebuke for ol' scarecrow.

    Actually Top_Dawg expects a good turnout.

  34. #734

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    Tiny turnout for sure.

    Kenny doesn't get people excited.
    UCP doesn't get people excited.
    Even the carbon tax rebellion people aren't excited, thanks to the perception that Kenny's greasy beige rule is inevitable.

    Kenny will win small because retired people vote even when not excited.
    There can only be one.

  35. #735

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    ^I think you have that wrong, retired people vote conservative and are traditional on social issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Kenny will win BIG (not small) because retired people vote even when not excited.

  36. #736

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I think you have that wrong, retired people vote conservative and are regressive on social issues.
    Let's be honest here.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  37. #737

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^I think you have that wrong, retired people vote conservative and are traditional on social issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Kenny will win BIG (not small) because retired people vote even when not excited.

    I have to admit I haven't even looked at who's running against him until right now. But it might be important to note that there are a couple right-of-UCP candidates in there, with names that I recognise.
    There can only be one.

  38. #738

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    ^this is about as safe a seat as can be (Harpers seat covered this area). Middle class sprawl suburb = PC / Conservative vote.

  39. #739

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    If Kenny wins and wins big the bigger his ego. He'll be the male equivalent of Redford. Walk of water, arrogant to the core.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  40. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    If Kenny wins and wins big the bigger his ego. He'll be the male equivalent of Redford. Walk of water, arrogant to the core.
    He's much nicer than that red Tory *****...

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