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Thread: Premier Notley's Second Year

  1. #601

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Unions think they should go up! LOL, head out of your @sses union leaders
    They’d argue that it’s essentially their ‘fiduciary’ responsibility. It’s a horrible immoral excuse. Similarly business owners use the very same excuse for a lot of their bad behaviour saying: ‘Our job is to serve the shareholder.’ Well, it’s total garbage.

  2. #602

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    The last public union contracts that made the news had no increases, so they at least understand that they're better off with frozen wages than with a strike or with lost employment.

    I don't mind if unions are looking out for their members, so long as they are unions only and not also certifying bodies (ATA), and as long as they are recognized as such. The public (and the government) need to be willing to call groups like ATA when they pretend to be advocacy organizations, but at least unions are in it for the long term unlike, say, vulture funds.
    There can only be one.

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    Would the Alberta Motor Association or the WCB be classified as certifying bodies?
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  4. #604

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    So The NDP is bad for the economy?



    Alberta growth expected to continue next year, Conference Board of Canada says
    Gordon KentGORDON KENT
    Published on: November 22, 2017

    “ “Alberta’s economic performance could well surprise on the upside once more … “

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...of-canada-says


    West is best: Canada's two western most provinces to lead economic growth this year and next

    http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...659297653.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I remember a few years back reading an article in regards to Alberta nurses. A lot of them are part timers. I guess 32 hours and under per week is considered part time. Most nurses work a 10-12 hours shift. When there was a shortage of nurses a lot of nurses were getting paid overtime once they had went over their 32 hour part time status. If they worked 3 days on a 10 hour shift and they were needed for 4 days the 4th day they were paid 8 hours of overtime money. If they were required to work a 12 hours shift the 3rd. day they were on 4 hours overtime. Of course, being a shortage a lot of nurses were asked to work longer hours and extra days. so they really reaped rewards in the way of overtime pay. The government of the day signed the contract for these part time workers and knew they would end up paying a lot of overtime. The nurses were making more money working part time and working overtime than they would have working full time. The government knew they were getting ripped off but the contract was already signed.
    P.S. I have nothing against unions. They have done more good than harm for the average worker.
    Fixing this sort of thing that needs to be a priority. It is what we get when we take a short term view and slash randomly when revenue is down, then throw money at every problem when revenue is up. Continue the wage freezes for most Alberta public sector workers instead of trying to roll back, but work on restructuring to increase efficiency. Notley's government should have been studying this from the day they took office and should have been getting started on long term efficiency improvements by now.

  6. #606

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So The NDP is bad for the economy?



    Alberta growth expected to continue next year, Conference Board of Canada says
    Gordon KentGORDON KENT
    Published on: November 22, 2017

    “ “Alberta’s economic performance could well surprise on the upside once more … “

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...of-canada-says


    West is best: Canada's two western most provinces to lead economic growth this year and next

    http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...659297653.html
    Sorry this doesn't fly.

    I've never held the NDP responsible for the drop in oil prices and resulting economic crash, I have held them responsible for how they handled it and still think they did a poor job.

    So with your post I feel the same holds true...only in reverse.

    The price of oil has slowly staggered up to the point we are seeing some activity...great!

    But the NDP cannot take credit for the rise in oil prices and the small boost we are seeing anymore than blaming them for the drop and resulting crash.

    If it was true on the downside then it's true on the upside.

    IMO

  7. #607

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I remember a few years back reading an article in regards to Alberta nurses. A lot of them are part timers. I guess 32 hours and under per week is considered part time. Most nurses work a 10-12 hours shift. When there was a shortage of nurses a lot of nurses were getting paid overtime once they had went over their 32 hour part time status. If they worked 3 days on a 10 hour shift and they were needed for 4 days the 4th day they were paid 8 hours of overtime money. If they were required to work a 12 hours shift the 3rd. day they were on 4 hours overtime. Of course, being a shortage a lot of nurses were asked to work longer hours and extra days. so they really reaped rewards in the way of overtime pay. The government of the day signed the contract for these part time workers and knew they would end up paying a lot of overtime. The nurses were making more money working part time and working overtime than they would have working full time. The government knew they were getting ripped off but the contract was already signed.
    P.S. I have nothing against unions. They have done more good than harm for the average worker.
    Probably a bit more to this story. First, I am guessing the "shortage" was caused by one of the previous governments layoffs of people, when energy prices went down. No, we don't need so many nurses now - everyone knows that when oil prices go down people don't get sick as much. So some of these nurses leave Alberta or are forced to take part time positions instead of full time ones. In the short term the government boasts about "saving" money on health care, until it turns out people are still getting sick at the same rate, hence the need for getting those part time people to work more hours.

    The real lesson for any government is you can not manage health care like a yo yo based on the current price of ail and mindless cuts will come back to bite you.

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    ^^ Did the NDP take credit for the rise in oil prices? I haven't seen any evidence of that.
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  9. #609

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^^ Did the NDP take credit for the rise in oil prices? I haven't seen any evidence of that.
    Not directly, they are taking credit for the increase in the economic rise coming from the increase in oil prices. The conferenece board has been very clear the the forecast economic recovery/increase in Alberta's GDP is being driven by the oil price rise and the oil industry. As reported on Global, CFRN and CBC.

    T

  10. #610

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^^ Did the NDP take credit for the rise in oil prices? I haven't seen any evidence of that.
    As the economy continues to recover, its going to get a bit embarrassing for those UCP types to drone on about job losses. They will have to find some new grievances or they will start to appear more out of touch with reality.

  11. #611

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^^ Did the NDP take credit for the rise in oil prices? I haven't seen any evidence of that.
    As the economy continues to recover, its going to get a bit embarrassing for those UCP types to drone on about job losses. They will have to find some new grievances or they will start to appear more out of touch with reality.
    Dave, I am going to assume you are referring to my comment above (if my assumption is incorrect I apologize in advance).

    First off, I am not a member of the UCP and at this time I am not a supporter as they have not released any policies or plans of note for me to base that decision on and Jason Kenney as leader is not something I am fond of but the policies will make my decision.

    Second, "Progressives" were adamant at the start of the NDP term that the NDP and Rachel Notely did not control oil prices and it was not her fault the oil prices crashed and the economy tanked... I happen to agree and have stated so many times.

    By the same logic the NDP and Rachel Notely still do not control oil prices and it is not to their actions (after all they don't control oil prices) that we are seeing the economy recovering due to the increases in the price of oil and the economic activity it generates.

    You can't have it both ways ... it's not logical IMO.

    We can debate about how the NDP and Rachel Notely have handled the economic downturn caused by the fall of the oil prices and the projected recovery caused by the projected increase in the rise of the price oil.

    But if the NDP did not control/are not responsible for the drop in the price of oil and the economic crash ... then logically as they still don't control/are not responsible for the price of oil then they cannot take credit for the rise in the price of oil and the economic recovery it is expected to drive.

    Pretty simple IMO
    Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 23-11-2017 at 02:59 PM.

  12. #612

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    They're not taking credit for raising oil prices. But raising oil prices aren't what's driving an insane 6.7% GDP growth. Oil went up a few bucks. That's not enough to drive that kind of growth. Investment is, and with only limited investment in oil, it's everything else that's driving it. How about the NDP's efforts that have grown Alberta's craft beer market by 1200%? Things like that they can take credit for, and should.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  13. #613

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    They're not taking credit for raising oil prices. But raising oil prices aren't what's driving an insane 6.7% GDP growth. Oil went up a few bucks. That's not enough to drive that kind of growth. Investment is, and with only limited investment in oil, it's everything else that's driving it. How about the NDP's efforts that have grown Alberta's craft beer market by 1200%? Things like that they can take credit for, and should.
    According to news reports on Global/CFRN/CBC (as well as what I have read on the net) the Conference Board of Canada is stating in their projection that the rising price of oil and it's impacts are what is expected to drive the 6.7% growth as I have heard and read.

    As to the Craft Beer industry growth helped (partly) by the NDP, yes they should and do get credit for that and should rightly so.

    IMO

  14. #614

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    They're not taking credit for raising oil prices. But raising oil prices aren't what's driving an insane 6.7% GDP growth. Oil went up a few bucks. That's not enough to drive that kind of growth. Investment is, and with only limited investment in oil, it's everything else that's driving it. How about the NDP's efforts that have grown Alberta's craft beer market by 1200%? Things like that they can take credit for, and should.
    According to news reports on Global/CFRN/CBC (as well as what I have read on the net) the Conference Board of Canada is stating in their projection that the rising price of oil and it's impacts are what is expected to drive the 6.7% growth as I have heard and read.

    As to the Craft Beer industry growth helped (partly) by the NDP, yes they should and do get credit for that and should rightly so.

    IMO
    Oil prices were in the $45 to $55 range for quite some time now. I believe that is what those forecasts are based on, not the very recent increases above $55.

  15. #615

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    They're not taking credit for raising oil prices. But raising oil prices aren't what's driving an insane 6.7% GDP growth. Oil went up a few bucks. That's not enough to drive that kind of growth. Investment is, and with only limited investment in oil, it's everything else that's driving it. How about the NDP's efforts that have grown Alberta's craft beer market by 1200%? Things like that they can take credit for, and should.
    According to news reports on Global/CFRN/CBC (as well as what I have read on the net) the Conference Board of Canada is stating in their projection that the rising price of oil and it's impacts are what is expected to drive the 6.7% growth as I have heard and read.

    As to the Craft Beer industry growth helped (partly) by the NDP, yes they should and do get credit for that and should rightly so.

    IMO
    Oil prices were in the $45 to $55 range for quite some time now. I believe that is what those forecasts are based on, not the very recent increases above $55.
    I don't know, haven't seen a reference to what data is being used.

    But ... it makes no difference to the point of my comment(s).

    T

  16. #616

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^^ Did the NDP take credit for the rise in oil prices? I haven't seen any evidence of that.
    As the economy continues to recover, its going to get a bit embarrassing for those UCP types to drone on about job losses. They will have to find some new grievances or they will start to appear more out of touch with reality.
    Dave, I am going to assume you are referring to my comment above (if my assumption is incorrect I apologize in advance).

    First off, I am not a member of the UCP and at this time I am not a supporter as they have not released any policies or plans of note for me to base that decision on and Jason Kenney as leader is not something I am fond of but the policies will make my decision.

    Second, "Progressives" were adamant at the start of the NDP term that the NDP and Rachel Notely did not control oil prices and it was not her fault the oil prices crashed and the economy tanked... I happen to agree and have stated so many times.

    By the same logic the NDP and Rachel Notely still do not control oil prices and it is not to their actions (after all they don't control oil prices) that we are seeing the economy recovering due to the increases in the price of oil and the economic activity it generates.

    You can't have it both ways ... it's not logical IMO.

    We can debate about how the NDP and Rachel Notely have handled the economic downturn caused by the fall of the oil prices and the projected recovery caused by the projected increase in the rise of the price oil.

    But if the NDP did not control/are not responsible for the drop in the price of oil and the economic crash ... then logically as they still don't control/are not responsible for the price of oil then they cannot take credit for the rise in the price of oil and the economic recovery it is expected to drive.

    Pretty simple IMO
    My comment was about those who blamed the NDP for most of the job losses, which I don't think is quite what you are saying. I don't know or presume the party, if any, that you support. You seem to have more consistency in your positions than political parties do.

  17. #617

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    So The NDP is bad for the economy?



    Alberta growth expected to continue next year, Conference Board of Canada says
    Gordon KentGORDON KENT
    Published on: November 22, 2017

    “ “Alberta’s economic performance could well surprise on the upside once more … “

    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...of-canada-says


    West is best: Canada's two western most provinces to lead economic growth this year and next

    http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...659297653.html
    Sorry this doesn't fly.

    I've never held the NDP responsible for the drop in oil prices and resulting economic crash, I have held them responsible for how they handled it and still think they did a poor job.

    So with your post I feel the same holds true...only in reverse.

    The price of oil has slowly staggered up to the point we are seeing some activity...great!

    But the NDP cannot take credit for the rise in oil prices and the small boost we are seeing anymore than blaming them for the drop and resulting crash.

    If it was true on the downside then it's true on the upside.

    IMO
    I agree with you and sure appreciate your rather non-ideological arguments. My comment was only there to challenge those that blindly believe that a left leaning party can only drive an economy into the ground.

    I’ve never been one to put much blame or give much credit to politicians of any strip for economic performance. But they can slow or they can accelerate a rise or a decline in the general economy.
    Last edited by KC; 23-11-2017 at 09:20 PM.

  18. #618
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    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
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  19. #619

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
    Alberta's was 9 to 10% in 1992-93, and 11 to 12% in 1983-84. We’ve been worse off in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
    Alberta's was 9 to 10% in 1992-93, and 11 to 12% in 1983-84. We’ve been worse off in the past.
    we've been worse off in the past?

    well that’s a pretty turn on the more common “it’s edmonton, that’ll be good enough”.
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    Looks like Notley is losing Edmonton voters, what a darn shame!!lol!☺

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3879033/n...o-region-poll/

  22. #622

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    Yeah, when you think about it the next provincial election is May 2019. Although in politics a lot can happen in 18 months.
    Personality wise I like Notely but not her politics. Kenney comes across as an arrogant p.rick. Could be a lot of people holding their noses while voting the next election.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Yeah, when you think about it the next provincial election is May 2019. Although in politics a lot can happen in 18 months.
    Personality wise I like Notely but not her politics. Kenney comes across as an arrogant p.rick. Could be a lot of people holding their noses while voting the next election.
    I won't be holding mine. I'll take 10 of him over hopeless Nelly, who has her head so far up Trudeau's @ss, its embarrassing!

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    Apologies to Thomas & Dave for not responding sooner.

    My take: When Loblaw's announced last week they said the layoffs were in part but not mainly, due to some provinces raising minimum wage. I think Sobey's recent layoff announcement might be in line with Loblaw's. Its probably too early to tell but the min wag increases imo didn't sit to well with a lot of people. Its all fine and well to want to attract people to Alberta but to suggest that the min wage is higher here and we have no sales tax is hardly an incentive to move here. However if there is no jobs around in a 11% unemployment rate (Edmonton) economy is hardly a good sales pitch.

    If our local economy was about 4% unemployment rate today, the NDP would look like Jesus on the mule.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Yeah, when you think about it the next provincial election is May 2019. Although in politics a lot can happen in 18 months.
    Personality wise I like Notely but not her politics. Kenney comes across as an arrogant p.rick. Could be a lot of people holding their noses while voting the next election.
    I won't be holding mine. I'll take 10 of him over hopeless Nelly, who has her head so far up Trudeau's @ss, its embarrassing!
    I'd take Daniel, Rona or even Jan Reimer over RN any day of the week.

    As for boy blunder and his crocodile tears, what an actor.
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  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Yeah, when you think about it the next provincial election is May 2019. Although in politics a lot can happen in 18 months.
    Personality wise I like Notely but not her politics. Kenney comes across as an arrogant p.rick. Could be a lot of people holding their noses while voting the next election.
    I won't be holding mine. I'll take 10 of him over hopeless Nelly, who has her head so far up Trudeau's @ss, its embarrassing!
    I'd take Daniel, Rona or even Jan Reimer over RN any day of the week.

    As for boy blunder and his crocodile tears, what an actor.
    Omg, his tearing up made me lol, even those who don't mind him, said , oh come on!!..lol
    RN , I can't even look at her anymore, and when she talks, nails on a chalkboard... Ugh!!!

  27. #627

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    There's all kinds of ways anyone of those parties can screw up before election day. I'm predicting more screw ups for the UPC than any other party. More drama, maybe a hint of 'Lake of Fire', lots of denials etc. Gong show central.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  28. #628

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    ... and when she talks, nails on a chalkboard... Ugh!!!
    ... in complete contrast to such incessant, hypocritical dogmatism.

    Today's acronym: Poor Undeniably-Thick Zero

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    There's all kinds of ways anyone of those parties can screw up before election day. I'm predicting more screw ups for the UPC than any other party. More drama, maybe a hint of 'Lake of Fire', lots of denials etc. Gong show central.
    True, but it ain't looking good for the Notley..😊

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Yeah, when you think about it the next provincial election is May 2019. Although in politics a lot can happen in 18 months.
    Personality wise I like Notely but not her politics. Kenney comes across as an arrogant p.rick. Could be a lot of people holding their noses while voting the next election.
    I won't be holding mine. I'll take 10 of him over hopeless Nelly, who has her head so far up Trudeau's @ss, its embarrassing!
    I'd take Daniel, Rona or even Jan Reimer over RN any day of the week.

    As for boy blunder and his crocodile tears, what an actor.
    Omg, his tearing up made me lol, even those who don't mind him, said , oh come on!!..lol
    RN , I can't even look at her anymore, and when she talks, nails on a chalkboard... Ugh!!!
    Boy blunder can redeem himself if he fixes Phoenix, reconciliation and gets us that aircraft we need. More money will go into Bombardier before that will ever happen.
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  31. #631

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I'm predicting more screw ups for the UPC than any other party. More drama, maybe a hint of 'Lake of Fire', lots of denials etc. Gong show central.
    Me too. I'll be shocked if anything different happens, actually.

    However, since the NDP won last election due to what amounted to a "protest" vote, I expect the next election's "protest vote" will go to the new United Conservative party.

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/elec...erta-1.4417616

    "Within weeks, the Alberta Electric System Operator (AESO), which manages and operates the province's power grid, is expected to announce the results of a bidding process to create "5,000 MW of renewable electricity generation capacity connected to the Alberta grid between now and 2030".
    Some experts say the prices set in the Alberta bidding process could be as low as 5 cents per kilowatt hour. That's in the same range as the gold standard combined cycle natural gas power plant and just the beginning of a process that will use market forces to stimulate new efficiencies in Canada's electricity market as technology improves."

  33. #633

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    ^.................and how will that translate on our utility bills?
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  34. #634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^.................and how will that translate on our utility bills?
    No change.

    If the cost for the renewables is higher than the market price, the government will use a tiny fraction of the carbon tax revenues to pay the difference so they can be dispatched in lieu of cheaper conventional sources. If the market price is higher than the renewables, the money over & on top of their stated bid price goes back to the government, they still only get the bid price.

    Let's say power is $50/MWh currently in Alberta & Wendy Windmill wants to sell her power, but she needs $70/MWh to cover her bills. She sells her power at $70/MWh, the marketplace pays the same $50/MWh as they would buy it from Charlie Coal or Nick Natgas & the gov't tops up the $20 needed to make her whole.

    Disaster strikes & there's multiple generator outages across the province & the price spikes to $100/MWh. Wendy still only gets $70 of the $100, the other $30 goes back to the government into the same pile the subsidies came from.

    Clear?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  35. #635

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    ^A long as Peter Power the Taxpayer pays his bill the government don't care.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  36. #636

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
    Job losses were going to happen eventually. The vast majority of oilsands jobs aren't in the mining, they're in the construction of the plants. Once the plants are done being built, they can mine for decades without having to build anything. Those construction jobs going away were inevitable, regardless of the price of oil. It just happened earlier because of the crash. The NDP are at least attempting to open up new industries that aren't boom/bust to create some stable employment, and the beauty of the Alberta worth ethic is that people are taking those up.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  37. #637

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    So now that the government is collecting carbon taxes we can expect Billions of dollars' worth of green/renewable energy jobs to come flooding into the province any moment now... right?

  38. #638

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^A long as Peter Power the Taxpayer pays his bill the government don't care.
    Actually, they do care quite a lot. Hence why they're doing this via an RFP, are making sweeping changes to the electricity marketplace to ensure we can transition as fast as we can with a minimum of knock-on effects to us & have put in a cap on the maximum price of power for residential customers for the near future, in case something unforeseen happens.

    You've got them confused with the PCs, who used Enron as a model for the initial deregulation of the marketplace & caused the price of power to rise to nearly triple what the NDP have capped it at, while allowing the generators to pass on the cost of their transmission/distribution infrastructure on to the consumer causing those big non-energy charges everyone complains about.

    I await your next ignorant, glib one-liner response.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  39. #639

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    So now that the government is collecting carbon taxes we can expect Billions of dollars' worth of green/renewable energy jobs to come flooding into the province any moment now... right?
    That's what the RFPs are for, the first of which is having its results announced soon & more to follow.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  40. #640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Unions think they should go up! LOL, head out of your @sses union leaders
    They’d argue that it’s essentially their ‘fiduciary’ responsibility. It’s a horrible immoral excuse. Similarly business owners use the very same excuse for a lot of their bad behaviour saying: ‘Our job is to serve the shareholder.’ Well, it’s total garbage.
    Well this is exactly why we have a government to debate, determine and balance out what is in the broader interest. Unions are going to represent their members and businesses are going to advocate for things that are beneficial for their stakeholders. It is their job to do that, but I think smarter businesses and unions also consider the broader interest too. The ones that only think about their own interests usually end up missing the bigger picture and sometimes get caught out for their bad behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    So now that the government is collecting carbon taxes we can expect Billions of dollars' worth of green/renewable energy jobs to come flooding into the province any moment now... right?
    Well, that was promised some time ago. The food bank has the most people it's had in many years.

  42. #642

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
    Job losses were going to happen eventually. The vast majority of oilsands jobs aren't in the mining, they're in the construction of the plants. Once the plants are done being built, they can mine for decades without having to build anything. Those construction jobs going away were inevitable, regardless of the price of oil. It just happened earlier because of the crash. The NDP are at least attempting to open up new industries that aren't boom/bust to create some stable employment, and the beauty of the Alberta worth ethic is that people are taking those up.
    Those of us old enough to remember the late 80's and early to mid 90's will remember the unemployment rate was higher than now and the provincial government in power got re-elected several times, in spite of it. This recession, compared to the ones in the 1980's and 1990's, has actually been fairly mild and seems to be over now.

  43. #643

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
    Job losses were going to happen eventually. The vast majority of oilsands jobs aren't in the mining, they're in the construction of the plants. Once the plants are done being built, they can mine for decades without having to build anything. Those construction jobs going away were inevitable, regardless of the price of oil. It just happened earlier because of the crash. The NDP are at least attempting to open up new industries that aren't boom/bust to create some stable employment, and the beauty of the Alberta worth ethic is that people are taking those up.
    Those of us old enough to remember the late 80's and early to mid 90's will remember the unemployment rate was higher than now and the provincial government in power got re-elected several times, in spite of it. This recession, compared to the ones in the 1980's and 1990's, has actually been fairly mild and seems to be over now.
    Sorry have to disagree Dave

    I am more than old enough to remember and work through the 80s recession, that's why I pay a lot of attention to this recession.

    As reported on the news networks multiple times over the last months, insolvencies and bankruptcies are at an all time record. (CTV, Global, CBC, CHED)

    The number of people out of work and no longer looking for work is also at record levels, again same sources and not counted in unemployment recording.

    The other factor is the work coming back is very different, a lot of part time and much lower wages than what was lost unlike the 80s recession.

    So yes I'm afraid our opinions differ on the intensity and if it is over.

    But differing opinions/perceptions are the nature of discussion.

    IMO

  44. #644

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
    Job losses were going to happen eventually. The vast majority of oilsands jobs aren't in the mining, they're in the construction of the plants. Once the plants are done being built, they can mine for decades without having to build anything. Those construction jobs going away were inevitable, regardless of the price of oil. It just happened earlier because of the crash. The NDP are at least attempting to open up new industries that aren't boom/bust to create some stable employment, and the beauty of the Alberta worth ethic is that people are taking those up.
    Memories are short.

    The PCs tried the diversification game as well tryiing to pick winners and losers ...

    So far the NDP is trying the same, but their luck so far doesn't seem any better than their predecessors.

    My view and IMO

  45. #645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As long as the local unemployment rate remains at 8.4% anything posted here is meaningless. As it stands now Northern Alberta's unemployment rate 11.5% while its a bit better in Southern Alberta 8.4%. When the unemployment rate gets down to about 5% in both major Cities, then that'll be something to get excited about:

    http://srv129.services.gc.ca/ei_regi...s.aspx?id=2017
    Job losses were going to happen eventually. The vast majority of oilsands jobs aren't in the mining, they're in the construction of the plants. Once the plants are done being built, they can mine for decades without having to build anything. Those construction jobs going away were inevitable, regardless of the price of oil. It just happened earlier because of the crash. The NDP are at least attempting to open up new industries that aren't boom/bust to create some stable employment, and the beauty of the Alberta worth ethic is that people are taking those up.
    Those of us old enough to remember the late 80's and early to mid 90's will remember the unemployment rate was higher than now and the provincial government in power got re-elected several times, in spite of it. This recession, compared to the ones in the 1980's and 1990's, has actually been fairly mild and seems to be over now.
    Sorry have to disagree Dave

    I am more than old enough to remember and work through the 80s recession, that's why I pay a lot of attention to this recession.

    As reported on the news networks multiple times over the last months, insolvencies and bankruptcies are at an all time record. (CTV, Global, CBC, CHED)

    The number of people out of work and no longer looking for work is also at record levels, again same sources and not counted in unemployment recording.

    The other factor is the work coming back is very different, a lot of part time and much lower wages than what was lost unlike the 80s recession.

    So yes I'm afraid our opinions differ on the intensity and if it is over.

    But differing opinions/perceptions are the nature of discussion.

    IMO
    There were a lot of bankruptcies and insolvencies in the early 80's too. Sometimes we forget how really brutal that time was. Now, Alberta's population and the number of businesses have grown a lot since that time (I think double or so), so I would not be surprised in numerical terms there may be more companies going out of business now too. However, percentage wise, I would guess in every measure the recession of the early 1980's was far worse and certainly more prolonged. I also recall many good jobs at the time were replaced by lower paying ones too, so that is nothing new either.

    In addition to all the records you have cited, there are actually also a record number of people working in Alberta now, so yes it does depend on perspective whether the glass is half full or half empty.

  46. #646

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    There were a lot of bankruptcies and insolvencies in the early 80's too. Sometimes we forget how really brutal that time was. Now, Alberta's population and the number of businesses have grown a lot since that time (I think double or so), so I would not be surprised in numerical terms there may be more companies going out of business now too. However, percentage wise, I would guess in every measure the recession of the early 1980's was far worse and certainly more prolonged. I also recall many good jobs at the time were replaced by lower paying ones too, so that is nothing new either.

    In addition to all the records you have cited, there are actually also a record number of people working in Alberta now, so yes it does depend on perspective whether the glass is half full or half empty.
    Oh I'll never forget how bad it was ... loss of our business (my brother and I) cost my brother 500k and myself 250K that took years to decades to pay off.

    As to numerical difference, the last report on insolvencies I saw on TV was quoting percentages not numbers, CBC IIRC. Which is particularly worrying when you consider interest rates were spiking over 18% in the 80s.

    Not seeming to be as prolonged I'll agree with ... so far. As to the well paying jobs, they came back in the 80s, I do not see that happening (at least to the same extent) as then.

    I prefer to be optimistic, but this time I am being much more realistic.

    IMO

  47. #647

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    The 1970s boom came to a very unexpected bust. $40 oil was supposed to go to $80. The drop and shock were dramatic.

    This latest bust was preceded by the financial crisis and before that the natural gas bust somewhat created by horizontal drilling technologies, which then seemed to only spur on horizontal drilling to the sand effect. Moreover this time around there was a lot more awareness of the risks. Also there IS NOW an awareness that these over supply driven busts can cause oil prices to languish for a decade or two.

    In the 1970s and 1980s I would guess that relatively speaking the last vestiges of the conventional oil sector expansion helped. So lots of jobs like landmen came back. Natural Gas discoveries in the northwest and in BC also helped. Then there was enhanced recovery on old wells, and some other technological advances. I’m not sure what hope there is today for such conventional resource discoveries. Then on the oil sands front some huge savings gains were achieved by adopting truck and shovel, etc.

    Today the whole business seems to be dominated by the oil sands, by these large capital projects requiring large capital outlays and a lot more up front planning. US shale oil and it’s power to expand and contract at a faster and more marginally sensitive/incremental rate puts a huge headwind in front of oil sands project work.

    Doubling the provincial population also means that resource potential per capita has been halved.
    Last edited by KC; 27-11-2017 at 06:24 PM.

  48. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    As reported on the news networks multiple times over the last months, insolvencies and bankruptcies are at an all time record. (CTV, Global, CBC, CHED)


    Can you provide an actual source for that? That's a pretty strong claim ("all time record") and not one that I recall having seen in major media outlets or in ATB's The Owl notes. And I also recall seeing that in the first half of 2017 business and personal bankruptcies had already started to decline. For example:
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/local-business/alberta-sees-first-drop-in-bankruptcies-in-more-than-a-year

  49. #649

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    As reported on the news networks multiple times over the last months, insolvencies and bankruptcies are at an all time record. (CTV, Global, CBC, CHED)


    Can you provide an actual source for that? That's a pretty strong claim ("all time record") and not one that I recall having seen in major media outlets or in ATB's The Owl notes. And I also recall seeing that in the first half of 2017 business and personal bankruptcies had already started to decline. For example:
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/local-business/alberta-sees-first-drop-in-bankruptcies-in-more-than-a-year
    Sorry Marcel but as I rarely engage here now I haven't been chasing links. Matter of fact with my new position I am pretty much getting my news from the above sources and not cross referencing or following my old news feeds. If I had more than the local MSM listed above I would be glad to provide. That said those reports have been over the last 6 weeks AIR.

    T

  50. #650
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    I wasn't asking for a link from sources other than those. Claiming a source said something is not the same as actually providing a source.

  51. #651

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I wasn't asking for a link from sources other than those. Claiming a source said something is not the same as actually providing a source.
    Amen.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  52. #652

    Default Poll puts UCP at 47% versus 33%NDP

    UCP is almost over half of decided voters (which would be a massive majority government), its looking very gloomy for Rachel Notley and her Carbon Tax:

    A new Insights West online poll says if an election was held in Alberta tomorrow, the United Conservative Party would have the support of 47 per cent of decided voters.

    But while the Jason Kenney-led UCP dominates with voters in the 35-plus age category, Rachel Notley's NDP dominated among voters between ages 18 and 34.

    Overall support for the NDP sat at 33 per cent of decided voters, but the figured jumped to 46 per cent among younger respondents.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-ndp-1.4422390

    Amen and good riddance, soon.
    Last edited by moahunter; 28-11-2017 at 08:46 AM.

  53. #653

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    UCP is almost over half of decided voters (which would be a massive majority government), its looking very gloomy for Rachel Notley and her Carbon Tax:

    A new Insights West online poll says if an election was held in Alberta tomorrow, the United Conservative Party would have the support of 47 per cent of decided voters.

    But while the Jason Kenney-led UCP dominates with voters in the 35-plus age category, Rachel Notley's NDP dominated among voters between ages 18 and 34.

    Overall support for the NDP sat at 33 per cent of decided voters, but the figured jumped to 46 per cent among younger respondents.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-ndp-1.4422390

    Amen and good riddance, soon.
    It will be interesting to see what they do once the NDP is punted.

    They’ve promised to get rid of the Carbon Tax right?

    So, the revenue shortfall will have to be addressed through cuts to government spending right?

    What’s going to get cut?

  54. #654
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    ^ You name it.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  55. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    As reported on the news networks multiple times over the last months, insolvencies and bankruptcies are at an all time record. (CTV, Global, CBC, CHED)


    Can you provide an actual source for that? That's a pretty strong claim ("all time record") and not one that I recall having seen in major media outlets or in ATB's The Owl notes. And I also recall seeing that in the first half of 2017 business and personal bankruptcies had already started to decline. For example:
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/local-business/alberta-sees-first-drop-in-bankruptcies-in-more-than-a-year
    Sorry Marcel but as I rarely engage here now I haven't been chasing links. Matter of fact with my new position I am pretty much getting my news from the above sources and not cross referencing or following my old news feeds. If I had more than the local MSM listed above I would be glad to provide. That said those reports have been over the last 6 weeks AIR.

    T
    So it's almost like ATB is psychic and this morning's Owl addresses this: http://mailchi.mp/9627be5762d4/the-o...y?e=9dd16627ae

    So personal bankruptcies in this recession in absolute terms are well below where they were in 2009. Population growth since then isn't enough to skew the numbers too significantly, if you were to want to compare it on a per capita basis. As far as how it compares to the early 80's, I have no idea, but I suspect it was much worse back then than either 2009-10 or 2015-16. Although I freely admit that is strictly a gut feeling, and not based upon any data.

    So I ask again, what is your source for your claim?

  56. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    UCP is almost over half of decided voters (which would be a massive majority government), its looking very gloomy for Rachel Notley and her Carbon Tax:
    But there isn't an election tomorrow. Or next year. That gives the UCP plenty of time to put their foot in their mouth. Repeatedly. And for the Alberta Party (or suitable replacement) to get in to the discussion. Or for the NDP to start getting some wins under their belt.

  57. #657

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    ^the UCP will be hoping the Alberta party come alive (it will split the NDP vote even more). I'm not a fan of Kenney's social policy views, but I can live with that to get some fiscal discipline / business friendly / red tape cutting government.

  58. #658

    Default

    Thanks for putting it so plainly about where your priorities lie.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  59. #659

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    ^yup, business friendly government creates wealth and higher standard of living for everyone, NDP creates what we have right now, a bureaucratic mess that nobody but the most capital committed already wants to invest in.

  60. #660

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    I'm sure the kids who'd end up outed & on the streets due to their school outing them & after social services are slashed will feel better on the inside knowing you're saving $15/mo on your natural gas bill while the government wastes millions on an ineffectual, pointless fight against the exact equalization scheme the leader of the UCP had a hand in creating.

    What bureaucracy has the NDP specifically created that's stymieing investment in Alberta? What other policy moves, beyond the inevitable carbon tax, have they made doing the same or similar?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  61. #661

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^yup, business friendly government creates wealth and higher standard of living for everyone, NDP creates what we have right now, a bureaucratic mess that nobody but the most capital committed already wants to invest in.
    That’s just simplistic dogma talking.

  62. #662

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    That’s just simplistic dogma talking.
    It's trickle-down economics, a debunked & flawed scheme. All "conservative" economic policy (quotes intentional) boils down to or is an adjunct to that basic, wrong, premise lately it seems.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  63. #663

    Default B.C. is now the worst destination in Canada for oil and gas — and among the worst in the world

    ^there is nothing trickle down about it, governments never create wealth, they only provide an environment for wealth / higher standard of living to be created. If you have NDP governments that are anti- business, then the business goes elsewhere. In Alberta right now, companies are choosing to invest in the US instead of the oil sands, there is less red tape, no carbon tax, and its closer to market. Things have picked up a little, but we are well behind where we once were and will remain that way until policies change. Its even worse in BC where they stupidly voted in an NDP government:

    CALGARY — A handful of years ago, British Columbia’s immense natural gas deposits caught the attention of top global investors eager to produce them and export liquefied natural gas to Asia. Now they’d rather put their cash almost anywhere else.

    According to the Fraser Institute’s Global Petroleum Survey 2017, oil and gas investor perception of British Columbia has plummeted since the election of an NDP/Green government last May and the province now ranks as the least attractive jurisdiction in Canada, followed by Alberta.

    But Alberta, also run by an NDP government, improved its global ranking to 33rd among 97 jurisdictions, from 43rd out of 96 evaluated last year, while B.C. fell to 76th from 39th, according to the survey of 333 oil and gas executives.

    “Investor confidence matters, and having a government that’s openly hostile to resource development has apparently sent a chill throughout the oil and gas industry,” said Kenneth Green, senior director of the Fraser Institute’s Centre for Natural Resources and co-author with Ashley Stedman of the 11th annual scorecard.

    B.C., which dropped to the bottom 25 per cent of global oil and gas jurisdictions, is not in good company. The province fared worse than Myanmar, Tanzania and Romania in the survey, and slightly better than Mexico, onshore Spain and Bangladesh. The least attractive jurisdiction globally is Venezuela.
    http://www.nationalpost.com/worst+de...041/story.html

  64. #664

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^yup, business friendly government creates wealth and higher standard of living for everyone, NDP creates what we have right now, a bureaucratic mess that nobody but the most capital committed already wants to invest in.
    Yup. Governments don't create the wealth - a capitalist system does.

    And when that capitalist system builds wealth, then social programs have the money required to properly do their jobs.

  65. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^yup, business friendly government creates wealth and higher standard of living for everyone, NDP creates what we have right now, a bureaucratic mess that nobody but the most capital committed already wants to invest in.
    Yup. Governments don't create the wealth - a capitalist system does.

    And when that capitalist system builds wealth, then social programs have the money required to properly do their jobs.
    Correct. And the capitalist system has decided that our main export is not worth what it was several years ago. And likely won't be ever in the future.

  66. #666

    Default

    ^ The "free market" isn't functioning the way they want it to & their goal is to undermine the societal fabric of our city/province/country in order to provide the sorts of direct & indirect subsidies they feel the business community deserves.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  67. #667

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    So I ask again, what is your source for your claim?
    And as I said in the original comment. CTV, Global, CBC, CHED.

    I don't take notes on the day and time but those are the only sources I use for news information over the last number of months.

    T

  68. #668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^yup, business friendly government creates wealth and higher standard of living for everyone, NDP creates what we have right now, a bureaucratic mess that nobody but the most capital committed already wants to invest in.
    Yup. Governments don't create the wealth - a capitalist system does.

    And when that capitalist system builds wealth, then social programs have the money required to properly do their jobs.
    Correct. And the capitalist system has decided that our main export is not worth what it was several years ago. And likely won't be ever in the future.
    Really? There is more oil being consumed today than ever in the history of earth. Prices are at acceptably high levels, and the worlds wants Canadian oil and gas. Its stupid government regulation / bureaucracy that's stopping it from being economic to invest new capital in Alberta versus the US.

    http://www.capp.ca/media/news-releas...ational-survey

    The world sees Canadian oil and natural gas as part of the energy future and the preferred source of energy imports, according to a new global research survey, 2017 Global Energy Pulse, the first-of-its-kind conducted by Ipsos on behalf of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.
    Of the more than 22,000 respondents in 32 countries, 31 per cent said Canada is the preferred choice for oil and natural gas imports, putting us at the top of the list of 11 producing countries. Another 54 per cent of global respondents were neutral or admitted they didn’t know enough about Canada’s industry to make an informed decision – creating an opportunity to share our energy story better.

  69. #669
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    76% said in a poll,the next car would be gas, lol! Weird news, not fake, just weird

    and the worlds wants Canadian oil

  70. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    So I ask again, what is your source for your claim?
    And as I said in the original comment. CTV, Global, CBC, CHED.

    I don't take notes on the day and time but those are the only sources I use for news information over the last number of months.

    T
    I just posted an actual source that clearly demonstrates your claim and recollection are not in line with objective reality. Yet you seem to be fine continuing on the same path with no reconsideration of your view or opinion in the face of conflicting evidence. That's disappointing.

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    Level 2 autonomous cars could become a reality soon:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...ast-facts.aspx

    My guess is 3-5 years from now, we'll be seeing the first few level 2 vehicles.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  72. #672

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Yet you seem to be fine continuing on the same path with no reconsideration of your view or opinion in the face of conflicting evidence. That's disappointing.
    This pretty much sums up C2E in 2017.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    UCP is almost over half of decided voters (which would be a massive majority government), its looking very gloomy for Rachel Notley and her Carbon Tax:
    But there isn't an election tomorrow. Or next year. That gives the UCP plenty of time to put their foot in their mouth. Repeatedly. And for the Alberta Party (or suitable replacement) to get in to the discussion. Or for the NDP to start getting some wins under their belt.
    Foot in mouth happens a lot in politics. One such win for RC (imo) has been Bill-30. Its a good law.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  74. #674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    So I ask again, what is your source for your claim?
    And as I said in the original comment. CTV, Global, CBC, CHED.

    I don't take notes on the day and time but those are the only sources I use for news information over the last number of months.

    T
    I just posted an actual source that clearly demonstrates your claim and recollection are not in line with objective reality. Yet you seem to be fine continuing on the same path with no reconsideration of your view or opinion in the face of conflicting evidence. That's disappointing.
    Actually Marcel

    You asked for my sources, I gave them to you as well as possible.

    Far from ignoring your source I have taken it in consideration and giving it consideration.

    But in the meantime (and this is not directed to our exchange or you in any way) I have re read the overall all thread and the quality of conversation and frankly regret engaging at all and have decided to leave things alone, as I have been making a habit.

    The crassness, name calling and overall demeanor of the devolution of conversation (save for yourself and a select few others) just doesn't make it worthwhile.

    Appreciate our exchange, you've given me a strong point to consider ... thank you. But I'm out thanks.

    IMO

    T

  75. #675

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    So I ask again, what is your source for your claim?
    And as I said in the original comment. CTV, Global, CBC, CHED.

    I don't take notes on the day and time but those are the only sources I use for news information over the last number of months.

    T
    I just posted an actual source that clearly demonstrates your claim and recollection are not in line with objective reality. Yet you seem to be fine continuing on the same path with no reconsideration of your view or opinion in the face of conflicting evidence. That's disappointing.
    Wow. Get over yourself.

  76. #676

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Wow. Get over yourself.
    Nah, Marcel's in the right here MrOpinionsAreSources.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  77. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    But I'm out thanks.


    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers
    Wow. Get over yourself.


    Get over what? He made a claim, I asked for a source, he didn't provide one (again, naming a news organization with no citation is not providing a source), and when I provided an actual source that contradicted his stated opinion he packed up and left with the barest of acknowledgement. I'm not sure what else I'm expected to do here.

  78. #678

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks
    But I'm out thanks.


    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers
    Wow. Get over yourself.


    Get over what? He made a claim, I asked for a source, he didn't provide one (again, naming a news organization with no citation is not providing a source), and when I provided an actual source that contradicted his stated opinion he packed up and left with the barest of acknowledgement. I'm not sure what else I'm expected to do here.
    Mr Oilers and Marcel

    Marcel has nothing to get over, we were having a civil discourse, he made a solid point and my departure has nothing to do with the conversation between Marcel and I.

    I departed quite simply after reading the last few weeks posts on a number of threads this is just someplace I don't wish to be and don't need to be.

    C2E, at one point was a great place to debate, discuss opposing views civilly and in so was constructive as well as entertaining. It's not anymore and as I said above I regretted engaging.

    C2E has evolved to where it needs a lot more Marcel and a lot less noodle in my opinion ... that's not gonna happen so have fun and enjoy.

    IMO

  79. #679

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    C2E has evolved to where it needs a lot more Marcel and a lot less noodle in my opinion ... that's not gonna happen so have fun and enjoy.
    Comedy gold.

    Sorry to see you go, but I won't miss ya.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  80. #680

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    Thomas Hinderks always gathers up his bat and ball and pretends to go home to cry when the debate isn't going in his favour. He'll be back.


    Sources: Just about every debate he has been in, including the ECCA debate.

  81. #681
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    You know what? I like the banter noodle and i have. Noodle is like my wife she has selective hearing. Right or wrong i'm about 50-50. It takes a lot for me to put somebody on ignore and that's happened about only once here.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  82. #682
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    Another poll, another lead by UCP..👍☺☺☺

  83. #683

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    like my wife she has selective hearing
    I prefer to call it "selective caring". She hears you just fine, she just doesn't give a damn
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  84. #684
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    ^ That might account for the longevity of our 17 year marriage lol
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  85. #685

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    ^its normally a bad sign, when you stop caring enough to argue, then you stop caring enough to love as well. Hate is not the opposite of Love, indifference is. Or it could just be you have accepted each other for who you are, that's not so bad I guess...

  86. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    like my wife she has selective hearing
    I prefer to call it "selective caring". She hears you just fine, she just doesn't give a damn
    LOL!

  87. #687
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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ment-1.4424667

    "Tertzakian, executive director of the ARC Energy Research Institute, says those lower costs are why capital is flowing into the Duvernay and other traditional formations like the nearby Montney, instead of to the more capital-intensive operations in the oilsands.

    "There is no question there is a new Alberta vibe happening in that west-central Alberta/northeast B.C. area," he said.

    Tertzakian says capital is already pouring into the area and forecasts about $30 billion will be invested next year, with as much as 20 per cent of that being directed towards the Duvernay — compared to just $13 billion in oilsands investment, which is mostly maintenance and not going toward new projects."

    Nothing in the article about carbon taxes.

  88. #688

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    They'd likely not fall under the Carbon Tax & instead under the Large Emitters side of things.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  89. #689
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    They'd likely not fall under the Carbon Tax & instead under the Large Emitters side of things.
    I meant nothing like "Many people thought that the carbon taxes would affect capital investment in the energy sector, but it turns out it's almost exclusively dependent on the price of the commodity and a more stable price (if not high)".

  90. #690

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    Yeah, but the thing is that the Carbon Tax has never been applicable to capital investment in the energy sector, as the vast, vast, vast majority of the energy sector is under the Large Emitters legislation. It's all boogeyman crap from the conservative camp.

    The only impact that the CT has on the energy sector is on the sales of their products, not the mining/extraction/refining side & the drop off on the consumer side has been negligible to non-existent.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  91. #691
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    So AB was downgraded.( sigh)

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3887501/a...ded-dbrs-debt/


    Credit ratings affect how much governments pay to borrow money. Ceci and Notley have said they plan to balance the budget by 2023

    Ha! .No chance!

  92. #692

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    The quickest way to stop the credit downgrades would be to pop in a PST/HST. Both Moody's & DBRS have said as much.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  93. #693

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    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.

  94. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita. The Province has oil and gas revenues, it doesn't need a PST to balance the books as well, as Klein showed us.

    Bringing in an HST would be political suicide, even the NDP aren't that stupid.
    Oh, I think they are that stupid!

  95. #695

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    ^and we all know what would happen if there was a PST. There would be no balanced budget, instead, there would be a ton of social housing going up all over the place and an end to the civil service pay freeze - the more money you give a drunken sailor, the more they spend.
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-11-2017 at 01:06 PM.

  96. #696
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    Tax and spend is right out of the Left playbook. We've seen it before so it comes as no surprise to me at least that our credit rating is now AA. Sure, we're a long way from austerity, but the longer the Alberta NDP remain in office, and our deficit continues to grow like Pinocchio's nose, we could be in for some serious trouble if RN gets another term. Pardon me for sounding like a alarmist but the $10B deficit is writing on the wall, just saying.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  97. #697

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^and we all know what would happen if there was a PST. There would be no balanced budget, instead, there would be a ton of social housing going up all over the place and an end to the civil service pay freeze - the more money you give a drunken sailor, the more they spend.
    Alberta is this very rich province that likes to pretend to be poor, every time oil prices go down somewhat. If we were to have a PST (alone or integrated with the GST) like every other province, we could finance government operations from taxes, rather than oil revenues. What a concept!

    No, this is Alberta and we prefer to live off the proceeds of our winning ticket in the geological lottery as long as possible. When the luck runs out, oh well we will have p*ssed away our good fortune.

  98. #698

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita.
    Yes, yes, you've been quite clear in stating & restating your belief that the higher wages & standard of living should apply to all Albertans except for those that work for the government (or unions), because the government/unions is evil or they're all lazy or some other claptrap you've gleaned from the National Post or the Sun or The Rebel or wherever you get your dose of conservative rhetoric.

    *YAWN*
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  99. #699

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Tax and spend is right out of the Left playbook.
    So we should tax & not spend? Spend & not tax? What's your right-wing playbook on this?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  100. #700

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^or, better yet, just cut per capita government spending to the average of what other provinces pay per capita.
    Yes, yes, you've been quite clear in stating & restating your belief that the higher wages & standard of living should apply to all Albertans except for those that work for the government (or unions), because the government/unions is evil or they're all lazy or some other claptrap you've gleaned from the National Post or the Sun or The Rebel or wherever you get your dose of conservative rhetoric.

    *YAWN*
    Average per capital wages in the private sector in Alberta are also higher than the average of other provinces. Say if those above average in the private sector are all willing to take say a 15% cut, then it would make sense for the government to do like wise. If they are not willing, then they shouldn't whine about it.

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