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Thread: ETS New Name

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    Default ETS New Name

    On some city websites, including the main ETS page, ETS says that it is the "Edmonton Transit Service". In fact the proper name is the Edmonton Transit System.

    Is this an admission that ETS really doesn't operate as a coherent system? I can't say the name change appeals to me too much. It sounds like something a smaller town might call its transit system.

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    There seems to be a push to regionalize and better incorporate St. Albert Transit, Strathcona County Transit, and Leduc Transit into the wider system.

    Eventually going to need a new name for the wider system, particularly if a person can get a single harmonized pay system going with zone-based fares.

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    I always assumed that switching to the label "service" was basically a PR move, meant to emphasize that the department serves the public.

    As for it being a small-town thing, I'm not sure about that. Toronto calls its police department the Toronto Police Service
    Last edited by overoceans; 19-02-2017 at 11:00 AM.

  4. #4

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    I'm immediately led to think that an org that doesn't even know what its name is might not be too good..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #5

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    I always thought that ETS meant, Edmonton Transit Screwup or Eventually Transit Shows-up or Edmonton's Tardy Service or ....
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    I have a friend who works for ETS and they said it was an official name change that Eddie Robar implemented recently.

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    So let's see, here we have a manager who has been with ETS for less than two years, who "just decides" that he will personally rename the transit system, which has gone by the same name since 1908. No public consultations. How is this acceptable behaviour from a public servant?

  8. #8

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    I am surprised that they did not sell the rights for corporate branding like Rexall Place.

    How about The Brick Transit Service?

    Telus Transit
    Skyreach Streetcars
    Subway's Subway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I am surprised that they did not sell the rights for corporate branding like Rexall Place.

    How about The Brick Transit Service?

    Telus Transit
    Skyreach Streetcars
    Subway's Subway
    Don't be ridiculous. You are minimizing a legitimate issue. Since when can the ETS general manager simply rename it without any public consultation? This is the real issue.

  10. #10

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    ETS has been a mess for years. They have a monopoly and no interest in improving service except in mega projects. Even so, the streetcar to Millwood will me slower than the existing express bus service and cost $100 million per kilometer.

    ETS has the largest union in the COE and any form of efficiency is resisted because they see as a threat to their membership.

    Changing a name is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMHO.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 20-02-2017 at 05:48 AM.
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    I really don't see the big deal about the name change...

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ETS has been a mess for years. They have a monopoly and no interest in improving service except in mega projects. Even so, the streetcar to Millwood will me slower than the existing express bus service and cost $100 million per kilometer.

    ETS has the largest union in the COE and any form of efficiency is resisted because they see as a threat to their membership.

    Changing a name is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic IMHO.
    You know. I've heard about those deck chairs all my life. So much that I'm tempted to start a similar board or online themed game.

    Well, now, anyway, if they'd have gotten a whole bunch of people up on them thar decks of the titanic to rearrange those famous deck chairs, well, maybe someone would have realized that they were steaming towards a big f'ing iceberg and averted disaster.




    https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/12093885_f520.jpg

    http://hubpages.com/living/The-Steamer-Chair-Story

    The Titanic kept going at a high rate of speed through waters full of icebergs. Everything was left to those in control. Maybe more eyes on deck would have led to some calls for use of common sense.
    Last edited by KC; 21-02-2017 at 06:46 PM.

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    It was dark though, wasn't it? I don't know that they had night-vision glasses then.
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    KC is thinking of the movie...
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  15. #15

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    You guys must have missed all the other depts that also changed their names to end in Services. Something tells me it wasn't a singular person that decided to change the name on a whim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by illin View Post
    You guys must have missed all the other depts that also changed their names to end in Services. Something tells me it wasn't a singular person that decided to change the name on a whim.
    Edmonton had a number of highly publicized police-brutality cases, including one in which someone got their fingers broken, in the period right before the department changed its name to Edmonton Police Service. After the change was made, the Sun(in what was a bit of a departure from its usual cheerleading for the cops) editorialized "Edmontonians do not expect broken fingers from a service".

    I think that kind of sums up the general idea behind these name-changes. It's supposed to sound more humanistic. Personally, I liked "system" just fine(seems more grown-up somehow), and I'd prefer it if the institutions in question focused more on changing their practices, rather than symbolic gestures like re-branding.

  17. #17

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    As this page details, the ETS has had about four to six names during its history, and that does not count the period from 1977 to 1993 when it was called simply "Edmonton Transit".

    If there were pathetic whiners around for the other name changes as well, history has given their noise the oblivion it deserves.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    It was dark though, wasn't it? I don't know that they had night-vision glasses then.
    Well, I wasn't there, maybe they had moonlight vision. There were however other icebergs present. It was described as an ice field. Apparently a rescue ship had to maneuvere around icebergs to get to the survivors. Another ship stopped because of the ice bergs. An obtuse topic for another obtuse thread for those relaxing in deck chairs.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    KC is thinking of the movie...
    Yeah, what the hell, instead of that king of the world crap, why didn't that dude just stop to see what was right in front of him. One of those pesky ironic twists in the manuscript.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    On some city websites, including the main ETS page, ETS says that it is the "Edmonton Transit Service". In fact the proper name is the Edmonton Transit System.

    Is this an admission that ETS really doesn't operate as a coherent system? I can't say the name change appeals to me too much. It sounds like something a smaller town might call its transit system.
    Do you have any actual proof that it is in fact called Edmonton transit System? because i trust all of the information im finding online which says it was never called that. This is the only relevant post that comes up in google search when searching "edmonton transit system." Its been called Edmonton transit service for as long as I can remember... i think you're reading into it a bit too much. System/service, who cares.. ETS is good enough.

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    I found one reference actually...
    Edmonton Transit Service (14 November 2016 - present)
    Organization's formal name changed from Edmonton Transit System to Edmonton Transit Service circa November 2016.


    But even this site https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~wyatt/...monton-ab.html
    but they dont have any references either

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by geordieinthecity View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    On some city websites, including the main ETS page, ETS says that it is the "Edmonton Transit Service". In fact the proper name is the Edmonton Transit System.

    Is this an admission that ETS really doesn't operate as a coherent system? I can't say the name change appeals to me too much. It sounds like something a smaller town might call its transit system.
    Do you have any actual proof that it is in fact called Edmonton transit System? because i trust all of the information im finding online which says it was never called that. This is the only relevant post that comes up in google search when searching "edmonton transit system." Its been called Edmonton transit service for as long as I can remember... i think you're reading into it a bit too much. System/service, who cares.. ETS is good enough.
    Yeah people get so used to the acronyms-as-words usage that they forget what they are talking or writing about. Think scuba, radar, RAM, SIM card...

    Radar...


    Wifi?

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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Interesting bit of news from 2009 that I missed. Who knew?

    New LRT stations opened in April at South Campus, McKernan/Belgravia, and Leger.

  25. #25

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    Hahaha oh boy.

    I bet they meant to just say transit station for leger

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    Edmonton Police Service used to be Edmonton Police Department
    Edmonton Fire Rescue Services used to the the Edmonton Emergency Response Department and before that the Edmonton Fire Department

    Seems they want to have the branches that provide a service to the public labeled as such

    Personally I think it should be METS and be a true Metro service with the surrounding communities
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    Well weather it is System or Service I'd say that probably about 99.9 % of Edmontonians could care less was the S in ETS stands for.

    Anyways, to go off of etownff's suggestion, I personally would think that an integrated regional system called "GETS" Greater Edmonton Transit System could be a good name. Their first slogan could be GETS where you want to go.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownff View Post
    Personally I think it should be METS and be a true Metro service with the surrounding communities
    It's in the works. http://emrb.ca/Website/media/PDF/Pub...nteractive.pdf

  29. #29

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    Let’s give the system whole new names:
    Edmonton Underground for the underground rail and pedestrian system (stealing from London)
    Edmonton On-ground for the buses and at grade rail lines
    and when the gondola is built: The Edmonton Overground

    The metro line could be the Edmonton Grounded and it’s passengers the Edmonton Ground-down
    Last edited by KC; 19-03-2018 at 07:56 AM.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well weather it is System or Service I'd say that probably about 99.9 % of Edmontonians could care less was the S in ETS stands for.
    I think that Transit Users who just saw their bus pull away and have to wait 15 minutes for the next one in the cold, can tell you what the 'S' in ETS stands for...
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  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Well weather it is System or Service I'd say that probably about 99.9 % of Edmontonians could care less was the S in ETS stands for.
    I think that Transit Users who just saw their bus pull away and have to wait 15 minutes for the next one in the cold, can tell you what the 'S' in ETS stands for...
    Adding S for System or Service to the name is like adding M for Machine (as in ATM). User: So is this teller a machine? Bank staff: No, there’s a person hiding in there.

    Person at bus stop: So is this bus in Edmonton and is it part of a system? Bus driver: no, your drunk and you’re in Sherwood Park.
    Last edited by KC; 19-03-2018 at 08:04 AM.

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    I prefer new name called Captial Transit system.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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    What they really need is a decent logo something bright and distinctive not the bland colours they have now. There isn’t anything that tells you this is the entrance to the subway system it could an entrance to an underground toilet.
    ^ Definitely not capital in the name anywhere we are trying to brand ourselves and capital means nothing to anyone.
    Last edited by Glenco; 19-03-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    I prefer new name called Captial Transit system.
    They've been painting big Edmonton Transit Service on their new LRT rolling stock.

    Once merged with St. Albert - I sort of like METS; Metropolitan Edmonton Transit System ...

    And yeah - catchy logo would help.
    ... gobsmacked

  35. #35

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    Who cares if the logo is 10 feet tall. Does it improve bus service? No?

    Then why bother?
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  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Who cares if the logo is 10 feet tall. Does it improve bus service? No?

    Then why bother?
    And what about our potholes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Who cares if the logo is 10 feet tall. Does it improve bus service? No?

    Then why bother?
    Attitude or what? It’s all about branding and being instantly recognizable who said it had to be 10 feet tall.
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  38. #38

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    Uhhh...



    You can't recognize a 40 foot bus or a 4 car train?

    Maybe prescription glasses would help you.
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    More attitude.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  40. #40

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    Come again?
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  41. #41

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    Near every product or service has to put their name out there for very practical purposes plus they can enhance it to bring other benefits. Such branding often works. Just changing to acronyms is a common practice even though spelling it out is more informative - at the cost of quick recognition, some sort of memory effect, etc.


    Interesting articles below. Think Tesla. Should it be called maybe TTC? Tesla Transport Company? No way, Tesla sounds cool TTC sounds super boring.


    Branding in the Real World: Acronym Branding

    https://www.brandingmag.com/2016/09/...onym-branding/

    The Pitfalls of Branding Acronyms - Delve Group

    https://delvegroup.com/pitfalls-branding-acronyms/



    Acronyms are Brand Killers | Orbit Design
    Excerpt:

    “So Having an Acronym for a Business Name Invites Failure?
    Not always, but why take the chance? Let’s flip it and look at the 100 fastest growing businesses in the United States. You will find that 92% of the business names are not acronyms. And if we eliminate the four notoriously acronym-happy industries – financial, medical, IT, and construction – there are no fast growing companies using an acronym name.”
    http://orbit-design.com/2012/01/27/a...brand-killers/
    Last edited by KC; 20-03-2018 at 06:26 AM.

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Uhhh...



    You can't recognize a 40 foot bus or a 4 car train?

    Maybe prescription glasses would help you.
    Maybe that's why ETS keeps hitting people with their buses. Insufficient branding!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    ^^ KC, of course branding is important but ETS already has a brand and ETS has a monopoly on public transit. It is not that there are two or five different transit companies in Edmonton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Come again?
    I made specific reference to underground stations which are not visible at ground level and you made some assernine remark about needing glasses.
    Attitude.
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  45. #45

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    The underground stations aren't visible?







    New York seems to do OK with this





    And Paris



    And London

    Last edited by kkozoriz; 20-03-2018 at 10:27 PM.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Come again?
    I made specific reference to underground stations which are not visible at ground level and you made some assernine remark about needing glasses.
    Attitude.
    No, the underground stations were your second comment. Your first was this
    What they really need is a decent logo something bright and distinctive not the bland colours they have now.
    It was a general comment and could have meant anywhere the logo was used including the LRT and bus fleet.

    BTW, do you have any idea how much it costs to repaint our entire fleet with new colors?

    Don't get all righteous with your indignation...
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 20-03-2018 at 10:41 PM.
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    ^^Notice how visible the London Underground roundal is. You can see it from a distance. You do not see our entrance sign until you are right next to it. The entrances to Corona station on the north side of Jasper between 107 and 108 look for all the world like entrances to his and her toilets the sign is not visible unless you are along side.
    Last edited by Glenco; 21-03-2018 at 02:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Come again?
    I made specific reference to underground stations which are not visible at ground level and you made some assernine remark about needing glasses.
    Attitude.
    No, the underground stations were your second comment. Your first was this
    What they really need is a decent logo something bright and distinctive not the bland colours they have now.
    It was a general comment and could have meant anywhere the logo was used including the LRT and bus fleet.

    BTW, do you have any idea how much it costs to repaint our entire fleet with new colors?

    Don't get all righteous with your indignation...
    yes it was a general comment about branding but you were supposed to read the second sentence for a specific application where this would be useful.
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  49. #49

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    OK, we make large flashing neon arrows pointing to the underground stations.

    What is your estimation on the amount of ridership increase would we see? 20 percent, 40 percent or 75 percent?
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  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    ^^Notice how visible the London Underground roundal is. You can see it from a distance. You do not see our entrance sign until you are right next to it. The entrances to Corona station on the north side of Jasper between 107 and 108 look for all the world like entrances to his and her toilets the sign is not visible unless you are along side.
    Notice how the New York simply has the word Subway. Are people going to think that those stairs go to a sandwich shop? If people are looking for the trains, they'll find them

  51. #51

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    That would be an awesome sized sandwich!
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  52. #52
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    Re: Branding LRT stations

    Well, y'know, wayfinding downtown could stand a lot of improvement. Making the LRT entrances more visible (and yes, some of them don't look like much) especially with a branded symbol could definitely be a part of that.

    It's really about accessibility -- and I don't just mean "there's nothing physically blocking the path". We want the LRT to be accessible to as many people as possible, whatever background or ability they have. So, if you're not familiar with downtown (and I'm not just talking about tourists) or you're visually impaired, or you don't read (or don't read English), or have mobility problems, etc. you can at least figure out where things are.

    And yes, most people figure stuff out -- eventually. But the quicker and easier it is, the more welcoming and "secure" feeling a place is. No one likes to feel lost, even for a few minutes.

    Lots of little elements go into making places... well, nice. This alone isn't a magic bullet that makes everything better. But it's part of the bigger picture.
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  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack View Post
    Re: Branding LRT stations

    Well, y'know, wayfinding downtown could stand a lot of improvement. Making the LRT entrances more visible (and yes, some of them don't look like much) especially with a branded symbol could definitely be a part of that.

    It's really about accessibility -- and I don't just mean "there's nothing physically blocking the path". We want the LRT to be accessible to as many people as possible, whatever background or ability they have. So, if you're not familiar with downtown (and I'm not just talking about tourists) or you're visually impaired, or you don't read (or don't read English), or have mobility problems, etc. you can at least figure out where things are.

    And yes, most people figure stuff out -- eventually. But the quicker and easier it is, the more welcoming and "secure" feeling a place is. No one likes to feel lost, even for a few minutes.

    Lots of little elements go into making places... well, nice. This alone isn't a magic bullet that makes everything better. But it's part of the bigger picture.
    They could put a big C with a shaded X through it to represent the missed connections people have between the buses and the LRT where they have to wait for another half hour for the next bus. That would be humorous, although perhaps the person who just missed the connection might not see the humour in at the time. Better yet, they could spend the money on better service.

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