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Thread: Holocaust - new facts

  1. #1

    Default Holocaust - new facts

    Another example of humanity's dark side. Allies knew what was happening by 1942. Plus more....


    Opening of Secret UN Archive Yields New Holocaust Revelations - History in the Headlines
    Excerpt:

    Later this week, visitors to London’s Wiener Library will be able to access the complete archive of the UN War Crimes Commission, an invaluable cache of tens of thousands of historic documents that have been largely inaccessible to researchers for more than 70 years. Among the revelations contained in the archive are the indictment of Adolf Hitler for Nazi killings in Czechoslovakia in 1944, and the fact that Allied governments learned the Nazis were slaughtering Jews more than two years before Soviet troops reached the first death camp in Poland.

    For decades, the attempts made by the United Nations War Crimes Commission (UNWCC) to prosecute the horrific crimes committed by Nazi Germany during World War II have been shrouded in secrecy. This week, tens of thousands of files that make up the commission’s archive will be opened to the public for the first time at the Wiener (pronounced “VEE-ner”) Library in London, a leading research destination for scholars of Nazi Germany, the Holocaust and genocide. The catalog will be available to search online. As reported in the Guardian, the opening of the archive promises to “rewrite crucial chapters of history” about the Holocaust and how the Allied Powers confronted it.

    ...

    http://www.history.com/news/opening-...st-revelations







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    Last edited by KC; 21-04-2017 at 07:55 PM.

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    I wonder if the Allies could have bombed some of the camps, or even some of the rail lines leading to the camps. I would imagine that some lives may have been saved at Auschwitz if the gas chambers were hit.
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  3. #3

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    It seems so many of these war criminals got away scot free. Many of them knowingly went to South America etc. but very little effort was put into finding them and bringing them to justice. The handful they did apprehend were usually in their 80's. United Nations War Crime Commission, just another name for Money Pit.
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  4. #4

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    More sourced from that first article

    Opening of UN files on Holocaust will 'rewrite chapters of history' | Law | The Guardian
    Excerpt:

    The files establish that some of the first demands for justice came from countries that had been invaded, such as Poland and China, rather than Britain, the US and Russia, which eventually coordinated the post-war Nuremberg trials.

    ...Around the same time, many convicted Nazis were granted early release after the anti-communist US senator Joseph McCarthy lobbied to end war crimes trials.


    ...All of this has never seen the light of day.” ...


    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017...mes-commission


    https://www.wienerlibrary.co.uk
    Last edited by KC; 21-04-2017 at 08:13 PM.

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    I didn't think it was a secret that the allies new of the death camps early on in the war. There had been talk of bombing the camps but they seemed paralyzed as to what to do so they continued bombing military targets and the German civilian population.
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    Early on in the war USA and UK lacked ability to bomb the camps, however later on they did have air supremacy and nothing was done.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4175045.stm

  7. #7

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    ^I think it was a difficult debate - they were worried they would end up killing more prisoners than saving. Its easy with hindsite to see the mistake, but the priority was to win the war - that was ultimately the only way to stop the continued killings, anything else just a band aid. Bomb a gas chamber, people would get shot instead.

    Watched an interesting Netflix documentary on Nazi secrets - it seems many of the soldiers were crystal meth addicts (pervitin). There is some suggestion this is why, the soldiers initially had huge unbelievable reserves of energy, then tapered off into addiction later in the war. Also the inhumane treatment of captives might be a bit linked to being psychotically deranged by drugs.

    In an effort to make its front-line soldiers and fighter pilots fight longer, harder, and with less concern for individual safety, the German army ordered them to take military-issue pills made from methamphetamine and a primarily cocaine-based stimulant. After Pervitin, a methamphetamine drug newly developed by the Berlin-based Temmler pharmaceutical company, first entered the civilian market in 1938, it quickly became a top seller among the German population. The drug was brought to the attention of Otto Friedrich Ranke, a military doctor and director of the Institute for General and Defense Physiology at Berlin's Academy of Military Medicine.[3] The effects of amphetamines are similar to those of the adrenaline produced by the body, triggering a heightened state of alertness. In most people, the substance increases self-confidence, concentration, and willingness to take risks while at the same time reducing sensitivity to pain, hunger, and the need for sleep. In September 1939, Ranke tested the drug on 90 university students and concluded that Pervitin could help the Wehrmacht win the war. Cocaine, whose effects substantially overlap with those of amphetamine but feature greater euphoria, was later added to the formulation to increase its potency through the multiplicative effects of drug interaction and to reinforce its use by individuals.

    Medical authorities described this plan, under which the distributed pills numbered in the millions, as having the negative consequence that many soldiers became addicted to drugs and useless in any military capacity, whether combat or supporting.[4]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_p...f_Nazi_Germany
    Last edited by moahunter; 11-05-2017 at 12:45 PM.

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    There was a very famous raid on on a prison camp in France where a squadron of mosquitoes bombed the perimeter to free resistance fighters. Could have been done for concentration camps but they didn't have the strategic importance.

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    ^I think I saw documentary on that also - it was an amazing raid. There might have been a range issue for Mosquitos to go to the Eastern European camps though, with a sufficient bomb load to make a difference. There is an interesting claim that the Mosquitos did more effective damage, than all of the rest of the aerial bombing, at a fraction of the cost in lives. Its basically where we get pinpoint bombing today, area bombing isn't very effective against industrial complexes (or I expect, prison camps).

  10. #10

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    There was a very famous raid on on a prison camp in France where a squadron of mosquitoes bombed the perimeter to free resistance fighters. Could have been done for concentration camps but they didn't have the strategic importance.


    ^I think I saw documentary on that also - it was an amazing raid. There might have been a range issue for Mosquitos to go to the Eastern European camps though, with a sufficient bomb load to make a difference. There is an interesting claim that the Mosquitos did more effective damage, than all of the rest of the aerial bombing, at a fraction of the cost in lives. Its basically where we get pinpoint bombing today, area bombing isn't very effective against industrial complexes (or I expect, prison camps).


    Not as simple as is being suggested

    The prison camp raid was operation "Jericho" IIRC and the Mosquitos were only able to achieve their success becasue of fighter cover from a squadron of Tempests, losses were high as % of total aircraft.
    It also took incredible coordination in the prison camp itself (thanks to the French undreground) to have the prisoners ready and away from the strike area, wihtout that coordination the losses of prisons would have negated the whole project.

    Now add in the fact that the concentration camps were at or beyond max range of the Mosquito with a singnificant bomb load (yes the fighter version could reach the areas but did not carry bombs) and the fighter escorts could not provide extended cover for the bombers as happened with operation "Jericho".

    While the Mosquito was an amazing aircraft and considered one of the most versitille of the period it was not a miracle on wings. As pathfinders for the night bombers it was able to increase the effectiveness of the bomber stream by marking the targets wiht incediary bombs. It was an amazing pinpoint strike aircraft in the right conditions performing raids like "Jericho" happening in Norway and several other countries within effective range. But it was no substitute for the heavy bombers.

    The USGG report (segments often quoted out of context) showed that the bombing campaign in Europe was effective in stoppiing production. As example were the huundereds on hundreds of German fighters sitting complete but inoperable becasue of a lack of tires, bearings for the engines and other components. Same with many other pieces of military hardware.

    Considering the technology of the time it was effective. Compared to today...it was a mess. But that is also comparing apples to oranges.

    Its basically where we get pinpoint bombing today
    Actually the concept was created by the Americans in the early 30s and perfected by the Germans as part of the Blitzkreg tactics using the coordination of ground forces with pinpoint strikes by aircraft like the Stuka, Do217 and Ju 88.

    Many historians feel one of the failing was Germany's lack of heavy bombers that led to their eventual defeat.

    IMO and IIRC

  11. #11
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    On a related note, a lot of Nazi artifacts were just found after a police raid in Buenos Aires, Argentina, they are unsure yet who they were (Mengele was mentioned)
    http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/huge-...sec-1796250871

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