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Thread: Safe Injection Sites

  1. #1
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    Default Safe Injection Sites

    http://globalnews.ca/news/3415931/ed...ors-fire-back/
    Edmonton MP weighs in on safe injection sites; city councillors fire back
    By Julia Wong Digital Broadcast Journalist Global News

    WATCH ABOVE: Edmonton is speeding up a plan to open supervised injection sites in the inner city. Julia Wong reports on how the conversation is now ramping up even more.
    A A

    The debate over supervised injection sites in Edmonton has taken another step – with local Members of Parliament jumping in.

    On Monday, the Community and Public Services Committee will be discussing a report that shows 74 per cent of 1,869 survey respondents agree with the city’s proposed approach. That proposal would see supervised injection sites at the Boyle McCauley Health Centre, Boyle Street Community Services, the George Spady Society and the Royal Alexandra Hospital.

    RELATED: Edmonton accelerates plan to offer safe injection services in inner city

    The report was moved up in city council’s schedule to accelerate the process to open the sites; the mayor and police chief would be required to write letters of opinion to the federal government, which would then grant an exemption for a site to be opened.

    Warren Champion, a board member for the Central McDougall Community League, said he is concerned about the sites being concentrated in one part of the city.

    “Why don’t you actually take these sites to where the people are actually doing the drugs, which means off of Whyte Avenue, which means the West End, and you find a way to actually address the people who live in the River Valley?” he said.

    “What you do to the communities when you take all of those types of services and you put them in a very concentrated area… I don’t think anybody wants to live next to an injection site.”

    Champion said he is concerned about how the sites will affect the quality of life of residents in the area. He also expressed concerns about the consultation done by the city, saying there were none. However, a report going to committee Monday says there were six open houses, an online questionnaire, meetings with community leagues and door knocking around each of the agencies where the service will be provided.

    READ MORE: Supervised-injection service locations for drug users announced in Edmonton

    Concerns are making their way to the federal level; Edmonton Griesbach Conservative MP Kerry Diotte said he has been in touch with worried constituents.

    “These people are coming to me. They’re at their wit’s end they have not been heard,” he said.

    “People don’t feel they are consulted. That’s frustrating people.”

    However, Diotte is under fire himself. In a radio interview, he referred to supervised injection sites as “shooting galleries.”

    “That’s what people are calling them in my constituency.”

    That comment is drawing the ire of city councillors; Ward 5 Councillor Michael Oshry said he found the comment “offensive.”

    “At the end of the day, everyone should be working for what’s best for the people that live in those areas of the city, including in Diotte’s riding. These are constituents of his and I would think that he would be doing what he can to support them,” he said.

    “This is an issue of people dying every day.”

    Oshry also said Diotte’s comments were not a positive contribution to the conversation.

    “Those kinds of comments are fearmongering and trying to rile up neighbours for reasons I don’t know why. But when you look at the evidence, this is the right thing to do. It’s a more effective way of dealing with this medical problem,” he said.

    “The city and Alberta Health has done a lot of work on determining where these sites should be and how they should operate and what services they should include. I’m not sure the [MP is] actually up to speed on what is happening.”

    Oshry said the community consultation will be discussed at Monday’s meeting.

    -with files from Caley Ramsay

    © 2017 Global News, a division of Corus Entertainment Inc.
    I had heard talk of this, but this thing really looks like it has legs and I can't find it on this forum.

    Does this actually to anything to address the homeless and mental health issues roaming around downtown?

    Why do we have to keep making Boyle-McCauley the dumping ground for all of Edmonton's social ills?

  2. #2
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    it certainly does seem to have legs but it doesn't have universal support. on that front, i find it interesting that those that complain about used needles and kits in back lanes and vacant lots seem to have an objection to safe injection sites. from my perspective, if you're finding used needles and kits in back lanes and vacant lots, you already have an injection site. what's proposed won't solve all the problems but it will address some of the symptoms and be closer to some of the solutions...

    boyle mccauley doesn't need to a dumping ground for all of our social ills. on the other hand, it's interesting to look past the statistics that create that impression. i'm not sure how broad the statistics so i won't attribute them to the entire community but it's my understanding that 60% of the existing housing in the quarters is subsidized/affordable. one solution would be to move it elsewhere but that moves away from many of the support services in the area (including things like the main library and being close to our main central transit hub). a better one would be to encourage more market housing to change that mix. i find it interesting that many of those that think there is too much imbalance presently were also opposed to the alldritt proposal (albeit not all for the same reasons) which would be a good start to changing the mix and the impressions of the neighborhood.
    Last edited by kcantor; 01-05-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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  3. #3

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    Would you be amazed. The same city that take education taxes and blow it on entertainment and getting a casino built as priority. Where you find 5 liquor stores on every block. Everything they can to destroy people and family's, dumb you down

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    >BUMP<

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    I like the idea of safe injection sites for addicts. I wonder though, why are there two sites at the Spady and Boyle Street Co-Op?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  6. #6

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    I live in the community, there is not the support they are talking about it's a complete lie! There has been zero consultation, door knocking during the day while some in the community are at work is not sufficient. Everything is based on their word.

    I have been quiet, and I believe many others have been maybe hoping this would go away.

    this area is a complete disaster, I personally am going to lose over $100,000 dollers ( to date I've spent $225000 in just materials)I have invested into my home less then 1 block from McCauley health services. I'm not including thousands( I'm not kidding here) of hours doing all the work myself. I'm a red seal journeyman carpenter who has spent 10 years of hardcore savings, ruptured my bicep working myself into the ground , over a seven year span.

    Who am i?
    Im 34, I have a girlfriend, plan on kids, I make 6 figure, and ignorant to think that cities can change for the positive.
    I have isolated myself from my sister who refuses to visit me because she's terrified to even go from her vehicle to my door. ( this is my only family I have) I have dealt with judgement/ ridicule from 90% of people I know and have worked with, with the other 10% overly positive and feeling like I really made a great decision. Well this does have legs, I'm unfortunately totally f***ed on being able to sell, without moving backwards 7 years of hard savings. I am looking at wrapping up the final renos( which this area has sucked all the energy out of me already, so this will be another year to do). And will be moving,holding onto the house as a rental hoping for the best to find renters every 6-12 months relying on leases to pin people down. This is is what's happening instead of providing help for addicts they are going to make things worse. The city will never be able to correct the blunders of the past and this will forever be a ghetto going forward. I believe I'm the demographic the city wanted more of downtown which I actually started to see happen.

    Thanks for ruining my life

  7. #7

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    And to the critics:

    I will consider trading properties to get out of this area

  8. #8

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    i feel for you swill. I dont see why the we should start with 4 sites. Start with one or two and evaluate how they affect the community and see if additional sites are needed.

  9. #9

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    The worst part is even if they had one site it would be 99% likely at the McAuley health centre
    McAuley health centre has proven themselves to be a bad neighbour and they have not earned the social merit on what they have done to this community on allowing people sleeping on their property 24 hours a day shooting up needles

    I had Jane Molstad at my house two years ago and she was telling me everything was perfect everything was going to get better there was massive changes coming for the positive Lotta buildings were going to get shut down houses re-renovated new house is built .there's a lot more in the details how about that the needle pick up has seen a 40% increase in the amount of needles but yet they hire two full-time people to pick up needles so there's just more people picking up needles this is all been a preamble to get this site past

    The original grant was for approximately $500,000 and as a lot of smart average Joe people say follow the money someone's getting a handout as much as they say they care about life this does not preserve life this creates more addicts. if you want to save lives have detox centres available 24 hours a day without six week waiting list

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I like the idea of safe injection sites for addicts. I wonder though, why are there two sites at the Spady and Boyle Street Co-Op?
    Because one will be daytime, one will be night time. I believe just based on each agency's hours, but there could be other reasons.
    There can only be one.

  11. #11

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    ^^I get where you're coming from - my brother lived on the block south of Lucky 97 for several years. We visited with our kids, but it wasn't a place to hang out outside. His issues were similar to what you've recounted in previous threads, lots of petty crime and public disorder.

    I hope that you're wrong, and that the safe injection sites will make things better rather than worse. Most of the data that I've seen reported indicates that it should, but it's not like there's a whole lot out there.

    Once the safe injection sites are open I hope that the authorites can start to take public use and intoxication more seriously - there will be no excuse.
    There can only be one.

  12. #12

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    Definitely a good idea, as long as it's implemented right.

    In other "well, duh" news, Diotte says something dumb, again.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  13. #13

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    The problem is nobody would want it next door to them. The one in the alex is logical to me (although why not all hospitals? e.g. Miscordia, etc.), but the other two, I don't know. I think its risking just making the area more of a draw for poverty - basically ghettoizing neighborhoods like what happened in East Village. Rather than Boyle / MacCauley, I'd prefer see it in Churchill square or somewhere else in the CBD, which is a short walk. It could be attached to City Hall. After all, downtown is for everyone isn't it?
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-05-2017 at 11:39 AM.

  14. #14

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    Watch The drain of any good people that do exist in South Mcc.Auley this is going to ghettoize the entire area for years to come this will never leave this will never get shut down investment is going going to dry up I for one am leaving, this has killed me as a person I'm broken

    this city is a disgrace

  15. #15
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    I'm not sure I understand why you feel that safe injection sites are going to make the problem in the area worse. Isn't that basically the exact opposite of what has been experienced every time they're tried in other cities? They don't increase, encourage, or concentrate drug use. That drug use is already happening with or without the injection site.

  16. #16

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    Come over to my place for coffee id have you over for a barbeque it's already unbearable as for getting worse it will get worse I went to the consultations they're already saying that they will not increase police presence Actually going to decrease police presence that came from these quacks they're actually pushing this insight BS

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    The worst part is even if they had one site it would be 99% likely at the McAuley health centre
    McAuley health centre has proven themselves to be a bad neighbour and they have not earned the social merit on what they have done to this community on allowing people sleeping on their property 24 hours a day shooting up needles

    I had Jane Molstad at my house two years ago and she was telling me everything was perfect everything was going to get better there was massive changes coming for the positive Lotta buildings were going to get shut down houses re-renovated new house is built .there's a lot more in the details how about that the needle pick up has seen a 40% increase in the amount of needles but yet they hire two full-time people to pick up needles so there's just more people picking up needles this is all been a preamble to get this site past

    The original grant was for approximately $500,000 and as a lot of smart average Joe people say follow the money someone's getting a handout as much as they say they care about life this does not preserve life this creates more addicts. if you want to save lives have detox centres available 24 hours a day without six week waiting list
    Good to hear something towards actual detail and experience. I expect there is a whole spectrum of good and bad experiences that could be discussed to create an accurate picture of the situation(s).

    Isn't detox though often just a short-term intervention, revolving door non-solution for some?

    I would guess, yes "guess", that a multitude of approaches is needed for the multitude of conditions that are causing people to use various substances. "Harm reduction" seems like a long ignored but logical approach to mitigate against far worse situations developing.

  18. #18

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    Saw part of a TV show on this last week. Trying to remember what program it was on. Note the "Rorschach test" comment below. So what's new?



    Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing
    The country has 3 overdose deaths per million citizens, compared to the EU average of 17.3

    Chris Ingraham Saturday 6 June 2015

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10301780.html
    Mixed Results For Portugal's Great Drug Experiment
    Listen· 16:59
    January 20, 2011

    ...So it has become something of a Rorschach test, where people in this very polarized debate - not just in Europe, but certainly in the U.S. -can look at these numbers and make almost whatever argument they'd like to make.

    CONAN: I hate that balancing report. We like to keep things simple here.

    (Soundbite of laughter)

    Mr. O'BRIEN: Sorry, Neal. I'm sorry. I can't help you.

    CONAN: So what lessons does the Portuguese government draw? Ten years after the experiment began - a long time for an experiment, but 10 years after it began, they say, are we going to change anything?

    Mr. O'BRIEN: No. The Portuguese government is holding this up, perhaps not unsurprisingly, as a great success. You know, they point to some of the numbers we've mentioned here.
    ...

    http://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/133086...rug-Experiment

    boding was mine
    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2017 at 12:35 PM.

  19. #19

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    I have some reservations but I trust the data that it will improve conditions for addicts and with back alley drug use, but it is not at all a solution for the neighbourhood, although further liberalization of drug policies could cut into the number of petty smash & grab type crimes by addicts just trying to find money for that next hit.

    If they are actually planning to reduce police presence as swillv8 says then that's a disgrace.

    There needs to be enforcement of the public disturbances that seem to be happening all the time in the area, police (and society) need to be willing to do something about constant offenders who can't afford to pay a fine.
    There can only be one.

  20. #20

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    They cannot increase pressure/presence because it will look like they are targeting these addicts I've been told.this area is not safe and will get worse with an increase in mental disorders.
    its bad enough I've been told by our wonderful eps they have their hands tied on First Nation issues as that comes as profiling even though it's 75% of the transient population in the area with the majority First Nation peddling the drugs too. I watch this **** daily and once again invitation is open to see the **** show 5pm -10 pm at night in the summer

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I'm not sure I understand why you feel that safe injection sites are going to make the problem in the area worse. Isn't that basically the exact opposite of what has been experienced every time they're tried in other cities? They don't increase, encourage, or concentrate drug use. That drug use is already happening with or without the injection site.
    Because its making the issue permanent at only certain locations - by selective choosing only one neighborhood, you mark that neighborhood as non-family friendly, and remove the great hope of some that they might one day gentrify. Its like the "we don't tolerate prostitution" signs. It does nothing to reduce prostitution, it has the opposite effect, it marks the area for anyone who doesn't know it, as the hooker stroll. This will become the needle stroll. In principal I like the idea of safe injection, but I think maybe hospitals are the best place, or commercial areas in the CBD - not close to residential.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-05-2017 at 01:08 PM.

  22. #22
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    I think moahunter has hit the nail on the head. I used to live in the 107th Avenue area and remember the "we don't tolerate prostitution" signs well. Occasionally I'd see a scantily clad person leaning against them while I was on my way to work (yes at 8 to 9 am).

    Swillv8 and his fellow neighborhood residents are going to be penalized by the fact that the injection sites will be permanently placed near their houses. It does decrease their property values and the perception of people who might like to visit. The sites may cause a marginal decrease in the general nuisance crimes that he has to cope with but it will create a new normal that will never ever get better.

  23. #23

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    Honestly I don't post online much because all I have is negative. I am devastated, lied to by city officials, and really am questioning my life, my judgement calls, and everything I have done since June 2010 when I bought this property. I have made massive personal sacrifice to go down this road. I would ask readers how hard it would be to save $30000 a year to renovate a house? I make the money I do by sacrificing. 60plus hrs a week I have been working for over 10 years now. On top of that I spent every waking hr )( giving up on personal life/ needs/wants)for 18 months in 2013-2014 gutting and redoing everything. With work continually before and still ongoing) On top of my day job. I don't have the luxury of working 5 mins from my house. A regular work day I'm gone from 6-630pm with travel.I mentioned massive investment on my part ,I'm not talking about paying myself some absurd wage let alone any wage. Purchased a shack with 3 suites. ($178000)And turned into a beautiful single family dwelling and after agonizing decision ( because their is just to much rental in the area)put the basement studio back in $225000 so $400000 total pure cost. Yet I'm neutered by a process of zero consultation, rammed down the throats of this community on a fast track timeline and I am down $100grand instantly. I won't be able to make the money like this anymore, there is no bounce back, I literally work myself to the bone to the point of ripping my tendon right off my shoulder. Sacrifice what is this? I'm bitter and ducking angry!
    Last edited by Swillv8; 02-05-2017 at 01:25 PM.

  24. #24

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    When you purchased your house a block away from the McCauley Health Centre 7 years ago what did you expect the neighbourhood to be like at this point? What would you have liked City Administration to do for you?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  25. #25

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    ^^^There's no reason it has to be that way, any more than the existing service agencies are locked in. Ideally we would see clinics offer the same services at northgate, meadowlark and a few other locations around the city, especially since at least one goal of the idea is to help get addicts away from the street life, it doesn't make sense to send them back there every day to get their fix.

    I don't think you can overstate how much the cumulative effect of the petty nuisance crimes and disorder is on these neighbourhoods. That's the whole reason that so many stable, employed people stay away - if it's not spilling into the alley or down the street it doesn't affect me. it's all those little things- every time you have to listen to belligerent drunks fight on the sidewalk, find used (and dangerous) needles in the alley, or have your car rifled through right in front of your house wears you down and cuts into your quality of life. That, and the response from the police and authorities that they just don't care and I can understand why swillv8 feels beaten down.

    That's not how it works in the suburbs. Everyone knows that there are drug houses here and there, in all sorts of neighbourhoods. When it's close by everyone knows where it is, but it doesn't drag down the whole neighbourhood because whatever associated crap stays inside - and when it doesn't the authorities listen to the neighbours and then shut the place down fast.

    That needs to happen here too.
    There can only be one.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    ^^^There's no reason it has to be that way, any more than the existing service agencies are locked in. Ideally we would see clinics offer the same services at northgate, meadowlark and a few other locations around the city, especially since at least one goal of the idea is to help get addicts away from the street life, it doesn't make sense to send them back there every day to get their fix.
    Why not try it then at one of those locations first? Once these get accepted in neighborhoods, then sure, put one McCauley. Again though, its the pilot - and I'm willing to bet, once it goes in there, it will be used as an excuse by other neighborhoods to NIMBY not get one as well (look at the mess outside there - look at the crime rate, etc., even if none of that is related the shooting gallery). Its pretty naïve to think Edmonton's experience is going to be any different from Vancouver, a city with two times the metro population, that has one for the whole region, in East Hastings.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-05-2017 at 01:45 PM.

  27. #27

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    ^ Yeah, that's the politics. Although there seems that we will have more than one right from the getgo.
    There can only be one.

  28. #28

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    ^start with just the Royal Alex, IMO. Then go to other hospitals, including the general downtown, u of a, misericorida, grey nuns, etc. Before you know it, the whole city is covered, but at least its built into a large facility so the impacts to local residents aren't going to be as obvious.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-05-2017 at 01:49 PM.

  29. #29

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    I don't know what to say. I grew up in a small town, sheltered, ignorant, and had no idea in the variance in laws being enforced vs area. I thought the health clinic was precisely that open to " regular" people. I didn't expect a " business" to be run so poorly, they have zero social license. Based on how they maintain their exterior and order. I was busy working a12/2 schedule at the time in 2010 night shift building the keephills 3 power plant. I drove by 4-5 times in the middle of the night several times during the day and did not see the systematic problems that actually exist. I knew the "east side"was bad But had no idea 1 block could make this much difference. I even thought the mustard seed was a church! Holy ****! Still to this day Jane Molstad lies and claims they are not able to "fix" up their ( mustard seed)property and either they will build or move. After I got in this situation I was not comfortable but decided new building is better then the deplorable shack they conduct a horrible unaccountable business out of.

  30. #30

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    To everyone expecting the safe injection sites to be scattered around Edmonton instead of where those who can benefit most are located: how long do you think an addict who's already come to terms with using in the open will walk or spend on the bus to get to a safe injection site?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  31. #31

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    ^^ So you moved in, found out things weren't what they seemed but instead of cutting your losses at that point you chose to funnel endless amounts of time, effort & money into the property?

    I feel for you up until the point you started throwing more money into the place despite knowing what the surrounding area was like. It sucks that you weren't made aware of the challenges & issues facing the neighbourhood when you initially purchased, but you're the one who kept throwing good money after bad even once you knew what reality was like.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  32. #32

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    ^ The Alex would have been the right place to start. In general, though, a clinic setting would be preferable to a hospital setting, and would be cheaper too.

    There's a lot of fears right now that are probably unfounded. It's highly unlikely that the Boyle McCauley health centre location will cut $100,000 from swillv8's property value. It's not likely to be a magnet and draw more disruptive people to the area. It's just one more case of a whole neighbourhood that for good reason doesn't trust the city to give them anything good.
    There can only be one.

  33. #33

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    I don't feel entitled to anything or expect special treatment just consistency for everyone and laws to be followed noodle. If you could experience life in this area for a week I wonder where you would lean? My understanding is you are very right leaning and I associate myself right if anything however the guise that you should know better or it's the east side or don t like it move is unexceptable . I pay taxes and plenty at that, I'd be happy paying twice the property taxes to have a "cleaner" area.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    To everyone expecting the safe injection sites to be scattered around Edmonton instead of where those who can benefit most are located: how long do you think an addict who's already come to terms with using in the open will walk or spend on the bus to get to a safe injection site?
    That's a good question, but not one that necessarily supports placing a single location on the downtown fringe. There are users all over the place, and they're not all homeless.
    There can only be one.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    ^^ So you moved in, found out things weren't what they seemed but instead of cutting your losses at that point you chose to funnel endless amounts of time, effort & money into the property?

    I feel for you up until the point you started throwing more money into the place despite knowing what the surrounding area was like. It sucks that you weren't made aware of the challenges & issues facing the neighbourhood when you initially purchased, but you're the one who kept throwing good money after bad even once you knew what reality was like.
    I can respect this and I choose long term, where was there indications of onsite? Constant banging of the drum for rejuvenation if anything, also edmonton for its size is mild to many cities I took a risk I acknowledge but that doesn't change the fact this sprung up and is being forc d on such a short time frame

  36. #36

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    Let's be clear also this insite is surrounded by houses!! Houses! 15 per block side. A 1 block radius that's a lot of houses

  37. #37

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    I've actually been homeless myself & spent the better part of 6 months living at the YMCA in Toronto. I'm well aware of what happens & goes on when you live on the streets, how that effects the area around you & how hard it is to change your life for the better. This is a big part of why I'm actually extremely left-leaning (my NDP votes are not protest votes) & I place a huge value in the social services, having been a beneficiary of the safety net myself for a time.

    It's truly unfortunate that your real estate agent didn't accurately portray the neighbourhood to you, but nobody made you pull out & then put back in suites. That's entirely on you.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  38. #38

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    Suite cost me a drop in the bucket being a carpenter

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    That's a good question, but not one that necessarily supports placing a single location on the downtown fringe. There are users all over the place, and they're not all homeless.
    How many of those people engage in the same level of needlessly harmful behaviour in addition to & on top of their drug use? On a per-user basis, do you think heroin users in Riverbend are equally likely to share needles as someone living on the streets? There's certainly a case to be made for harm reduction methodologies to be spread out, but at first I think putting the safe injection sites nearer where the majority of the more unsafe injections are currently happening is not a bad idea at all.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    Suite cost me a drop in the bucket being a carpenter
    So the $225K you mentioned earlier to put the basement suite back in (a large portion of the $400K you say you've invested) is entirely a fabrication made to drum up your case? I know trades can be lucrative but $225K is more than "a drop in the bucket" methinks.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  41. #41

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    Bad typing on my part, $50g on the suite, $225 total on house with purchase of $178g
    im all in 400k excluding labour, interest ect.

  42. #42

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    Edit: see above from the horse's mouth.
    There can only be one.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I'm not sure I understand why you feel that safe injection sites are going to make the problem in the area worse. Isn't that basically the exact opposite of what has been experienced every time they're tried in other cities? They don't increase, encourage, or concentrate drug use. That drug use is already happening with or without the injection site.
    Because its making the issue permanent at only certain locations - by selective choosing only one neighborhood, you mark that neighborhood as non-family friendly, and remove the great hope of some that they might one day gentrify. Its like the "we don't tolerate prostitution" signs. It does nothing to reduce prostitution, it has the opposite effect, it marks the area for anyone who doesn't know it, as the hooker stroll. This will become the needle stroll. In principal I like the idea of safe injection, but I think maybe hospitals are the best place, or commercial areas in the CBD - not close to residential.
    I guess I just don't see the magic alternative that makes the problem go away overnight. The fact is, there is a huge problem of IV drug use in those neighborhoods. If a safe injection site is going to go anywhere, it should be in the areas where the usage is happening. While I have no doubt IV drug use is happening in other neighborhoods, the rate and type of usage (needle sharing, disease transmission etc) are likely very, very different and probably wouldn't justify the expense of running injection sites in them. A middle class IV drug user living in Glenora or Riverbend or something isn't likely to use a safe injection site, even if one is located in their neighborhood.

    And I honestly don't see how a safe injection site is going to somehow mark the area as non-family friendly. That mark is ALREADY there because of the amount of disorder and crime in the area. Safe injection sites reduce those, along with improving health outcomes, making addicts more likely to seek treatment, and so on. To me it's a step in the right direction, although by no means is it a solution in and of itself. I'm all for having them located somewhere that doesn't directly impact residential properties, but there's probably no perfect location for them.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swillv8 View Post
    Bad typing on my part, $50g on the suite, $225 total on house with purchase of $178g
    im all in 400k excluding labour, interest ect.
    That makes a little more sense, thanks for the clarification.
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  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I'm not sure I understand why you feel that safe injection sites are going to make the problem in the area worse. Isn't that basically the exact opposite of what has been experienced every time they're tried in other cities? They don't increase, encourage, or concentrate drug use. That drug use is already happening with or without the injection site.
    Because its making the issue permanent at only certain locations - by selective choosing only one neighborhood, you mark that neighborhood as non-family friendly, and remove the great hope of some that they might one day gentrify. Its like the "we don't tolerate prostitution" signs. It does nothing to reduce prostitution, it has the opposite effect, it marks the area for anyone who doesn't know it, as the hooker stroll. This will become the needle stroll. In principal I like the idea of safe injection, but I think maybe hospitals are the best place, or commercial areas in the CBD - not close to residential.
    I actually agree with moa on this one. I don't know why we're not piloting it within hospitals, or at the very least, not next door to houses. I didn't think addicts hung out in residential areas. But then again I don't really know much about what heroin users do.
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  46. #46

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    To be clear edmonton does not have a heroin problem it is everything else addicts are crushing up. How many people I've chased off with a fresh hit and can walk better then myself. Prescription pills from others garbage cans and meth is what ive seen mostly. And why do they live in this area? It's the houses that are unhealthy fire traps the city will not crack down on. The "carmen" houses. And many more that offer rooms $500-$800.

  47. #47

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    Not heroin, no, but there's a general opioid epidemic that includes heroin users along with the Oxycodone, fentanyl, et al.
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  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I'm not sure I understand why you feel that safe injection sites are going to make the problem in the area worse. Isn't that basically the exact opposite of what has been experienced every time they're tried in other cities? They don't increase, encourage, or concentrate drug use. That drug use is already happening with or without the injection site.
    Because its making the issue permanent at only certain locations - by selective choosing only one neighborhood, you mark that neighborhood as non-family friendly, and remove the great hope of some that they might one day gentrify. Its like the "we don't tolerate prostitution" signs. It does nothing to reduce prostitution, it has the opposite effect, it marks the area for anyone who doesn't know it, as the hooker stroll. This will become the needle stroll. In principal I like the idea of safe injection, but I think maybe hospitals are the best place, or commercial areas in the CBD - not close to residential.
    I actually agree with moa on this one. I don't know why we're not piloting it within hospitals, or at the very least, not next door to houses. I didn't think addicts hung out in residential areas. But then again I don't really know much about what heroin users do.
    Because if you want people to use it, it has to be where they are already actually accessing health services and have relationships with social service staff. Like it or not, BMHC and BSC have huge populations they can see. It's a proven fact, that if people don't feel they have a personal relationship with services they WON'T use them. So, putting them in a hospital they they don't have a regular relationship with, may use only on an emergency basis...it just won't be as successful.

    Don't forget, when these people show up in the RAH ED, or elsewhere, work occurs to (or try to) attach them to a site that has the resources to help them with their medical illness, as well as mental health, addiction and social welfare concerns.

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    At this point, I think they should just declare the area as an "inner city wellness subdivision", buy residents out of their homes and/or businesses, and use those homes to house the people/services they are trying to help. The city and it's allies in the poverty industry fully intend to operate this area as a service ghetto, while they set up powerless committees to "monitor" it.

  50. #50

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    Was there ever this much controversy over the methadone clinic on 101 St. and 111 Ave?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Was there ever this much controversy over the methadone clinic on 101 St. and 111 Ave?
    Are there 4 methadone clinics within a short distance to each other in that area?

  52. #52

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    ^^^Yup. Sad thing is, its a model we know doesn't work, Vancouver has invested well over a billion in East Village, for no return other than more poverty / more concentrated poverty. Its a vicious cycle - "we put the support there, because that's where the customers are", becomes, "we go there, because that's where the support is". It creates a ghetto that is extremely hard for people trapped in it, to ever escape from. They become dependent on the services, but unable to really benefit from them due to the destructive influences all around them. Other cities have taken other approaches more successfully, creating opportunities in regular neighborhoods to break free / rebuild, but that requires more political will.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-05-2017 at 03:32 PM.

  53. #53

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    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/t...-insite-works/


    Insite was opened, following extensive consultation, after a public health emergency was declared in Vancouver in 1997 in an attempt to counter more than 1,000 overdose deaths in the preceding years and a spike in HIV and hepatitis C infections caused by shared needles. Dr. Thomas Kerr of the B.C. Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS called the outbreak “the most explosive epidemic of HIV infection that had been observed outside of sub-Saharan Africa.” Since then, B.C. has gone from having the highest infection rate in Canada to among the lowest. “In the immediate area around Insite, the 40-block area around the facility, there’s been a 35-per-cent decline in overdose deaths,” says Kerr. “And people who use Insite on a regular basis are 30 per cent more likely to enter addiction treatment.”
    Emphasis mine.

    ...the facility and other harm-reduction strategies like free needle exchanges have slashed HIV infections and overdose death rates, and have increased the number of people seeking treatment without contributing to an increase in crime
    Last edited by noodle; 02-05-2017 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Added second quote
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  54. #54

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    ^You are confusing two separate issues:

    1. Whether safe injection sites make sense (I think most people realize they do), and
    2. Whether two out of the three injection sites should go into one inner city neighborhood.

  55. #55

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    The most appropriate is where their harm-reduction strategies would reduce the most harm, which happens to be in the area that has the highest percentage of overdoses & an increased prevalence of unsafe behaviours like needle sharing, embedded into organizations that can provide the additional services required to give people as much assistance as possible in getting in control of their lives.

    So, basically, that's right where they're going.
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  56. #56

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    ^provide the proof. Drugs/needles might be more visible in Boyle / McCauley, but that doesn't mean there are more overdoses there. People use fentanyl, and people use needles, throughout the city.

    http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonto...versation.html


    By the numbers

    343: The number of Albertans who died from an apparent fentanyl overdose in 2016

    89: The percentage of those deaths that occurred in larger urban centres

    85: The percentage of Edmonton and Calgary fentanyl deaths that occurred outside of the central urban core

    25: The percentage of deaths in Edmonton and Calgary among individuals with no fixed address.
    "Build it, and they will come". Build it where support services might be able to make a difference.

  57. #57

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    Missed a part of that article.

    She was hesitant to draw conclusions from the overdose data, however, since earlier reports showed more Edmontonians are dying from opioids other than fentanyl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter
    ^provide the proof. Drugs/needles might be more visible in Boyle / McCauley, but that doesn't mean there are more overdoses there. People use fentanyl, and people use needles, throughout the city.


    Swillv8 has provided plenty of proof that there are massive issues with open IV drug use in the area. I am not aware of any other area of Edmonton in which this is a problem. Are you claiming there is? You're going to be the one that has to come up with "proof" here, given that it's an established fact that Boyle/McCauley have huge use of IV drugs in public.

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter
    ^provide the proof. Drugs/needles might be more visible in Boyle / McCauley, but that doesn't mean there are more overdoses there. People use fentanyl, and people use needles, throughout the city.


    Swillv8 has provided plenty of proof that there are massive issues with open IV drug use in the area. I am not aware of any other area of Edmonton in which this is a problem. Are you claiming there is? You're going to be the one that has to come up with "proof" here, given that it's an established fact that Boyle/McCauley have huge use of IV drugs in public.
    I think the Royal Alex catches a broader area - build a good facility there (and at other hospitals). If there is extreme demand in Boyle/McCauley from the health center, consider options like a free shuttle bus. Its wrong though to just assume there wouldn't be every bit as much patronage in Millwoods, or near WEM, or Clareview, or Castledowns, or even fancy neighborhoods like Terwillegar or Whyte, if the facilities weren't spread around.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-05-2017 at 04:04 PM.

  60. #60

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    ^That doesn't make sense.

    If you're bringing the users back to the neighbourhood anyway, isn't it better to allow them to go in, do it and head back home rather than making them gather there and wait for a bus?
    There can only be one.

  61. #61

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    ^Maybe some of them won't go back? Why is so important to concentrate the social services in that location? I just don't buy it that the biggest injection drug user population are homeless people on the streets in Boyle and McCauley, versus Jasper Place, or Bellamy hill, or whatever. I think there are injectors all over the city. The only difference is many of them have a home so they throw their shared needle in their crack den in the trash instead of on the street.
    Last edited by moahunter; 02-05-2017 at 04:12 PM.

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    City Hall or Edmonton Tower would be an excellent start - lead by example instead of ramming this down the throats of tax payers in that area.

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    One of the things I'm seeing highlighted in this discussion is that we are doing cost/benefit analyses for two very different populations. No one is denying that the best way to prevent deaths in the addict population is to provide services where they are.

    But Swillv8 is not a member of the addict population. He (and his neighbors) are ordinary householders carving out a life in that neighborhood. I'm too lazy to look up when he moved in, but when I was inhabiting the neighborhood there were continual "this neighborhood is going to gentrify any day now" noises from the City and others.

  64. #64

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    Edmonton Tower is just a block south of the George Spady Centre and Boyle Street Community Services, I'm not sure what the difference is. I would have no issue with your proposed location if it were realistic to expect that the target clients would be as likely to access the service there. of course, the lease probably doesn't allow it.
    There can only be one.

  65. #65

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    ^^Edmonton Tower is just a block south of the George Spady Centre and Boyle Street Community Services, I'm not sure what the difference is. I would have no issue with your proposed location if it were realistic to expect that the target clients would be as likely to access the service there. of course, the lease probably doesn't allow it.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    At this point, I think they should just declare the area as an "inner city wellness subdivision", buy residents out of their homes and/or businesses, and use those homes to house the people/services they are trying to help. The city and it's allies in the poverty industry fully intend to operate this area as a service ghetto, while they set up powerless committees to "monitor" it.
    I'm wondering is this isn't the best idea posted so far in spite of its patent absurdity.

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Was there ever this much controversy over the methadone clinic on 101 St. and 111 Ave?
    Are there 4 methadone clinics within a short distance to each other in that area?
    Beats me. How is that an answer?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    At this point, I think they should just declare the area as an "inner city wellness subdivision", buy residents out of their homes and/or businesses, and use those homes to house the people/services they are trying to help. The city and it's allies in the poverty industry fully intend to operate this area as a service ghetto, while they set up powerless committees to "monitor" it.
    I'm wondering is this isn't the best idea posted so far in spite of its patent absurdity.
    What's the usual approach? Centralize, then cut the funding?

    "Narrator: In 1988, the crime rate in the United States rises four hundred percent. The once great city of New York becomes the one maximum security prison for the entire country. A fifty-foot containment wall is erected along the New Jersey shoreline, across the Harlem River, and down along the Brooklyn shoreline. It completely surrounds Manhattan Island. All bridges and waterways are mined. The United States Police Force, like an army, is encamped around the island. There are no guards inside the prison, only prisoners and the worlds they have made. The rules are simple: once you go in, you don't come out." - Escape from New York (movie script)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Was there ever this much controversy over the methadone clinic on 101 St. and 111 Ave?
    Are there 4 methadone clinics within a short distance to each other in that area?
    Beats me. How is that an answer?


    I would assume the point is that you can't compare a situation with one methadone clinic in a small area, to a situation where there are four in a small area.

    Not that I necessarily agree of disagree, but I think that's what Downtown was arguing.

  70. #70

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    Criminal issue to a health issue. Glad to see this in my lifetime at least.
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    I think this is fantastic and all the fearmongering is largely baseless. I just don't understand the need for 4 sites immediately when Vancouver still only has just the 1. I haven't read through the entire thread so sorry if you've all discussed it already.

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    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...ure-neighbours


    Krishna Bains Put an injection site in the Belgravia area where Mayor Iveson lives so he can daily see its effectivenes.




    Classic.

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    This CBC story at the end has a map of Edmonton with the EMS responses to "opiate-related events" shown: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...oyle-1.4096057


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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...ure-neighbours


    Krishna Bains Put an injection site in the Belgravia area where Mayor Iveson lives so he can daily see its effectivenes.




    Classic.
    classic? you might be right with that.

    it's just the discussion isn't about a city with no injection sites all of a sudden deciding to allow them.

    the problem is that the city already has injection sites and this is an attempt to clean them up, not introduce something new.

    could you open a safe injection site in belgravia? sure you could. but those users highlighted in the heat map aren't going to walk from their current preferred site to belgravia and back and they're not going to move to belgravia either.

    as to the "four versus one" counterpoint, there's a lot more than just one now if you consider every lane or recessed storefront or vacant lot within walking distance of the ones proposed.
    Last edited by kcantor; 03-05-2017 at 10:27 AM.
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  75. #75

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    ^sure, but why are three needed in the circle, rather than one in the Alex? By looking at the map, there are smudges in other parts of town as well (like the West end), so I think there is a strong logic to using hospital coverage on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^sure, but why are three needed in the circle, rather than one in the Alex? By looking at the map, there are smudges in other parts of town as well (like the West end), so I think there is a strong logic to using hospital coverage on this.
    i'm okay with hospital coverage being used - it might even make better use of the ems and police resources that currently spend way too much non-productive time in hospital er wards...

    as for the "three in the circle", the alex is on the periphery of the circle and it's my understanding the two central ones at "ground zero" are intended to provide 24/7 coverage with neither of them operating 24/7. you can't pick "one or the other" and it's important to remember that part of the philosophy isn't just providing safe injection sites, it's providing them in conjunction with other support network options.
    Last edited by kcantor; 03-05-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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  77. #77

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    the heatmap clearly indicates where the greatest needs for this. Those other smudges are minor.

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    Chinese plan City Hall march and rally for Saturday

    The supporters of Chinatown aren’t giving up with out a fight. Angry at city council’s decision over supervised injection sites, a protest and march is planned for this Saturday.

    “One thing we are really, really, really upset is what ever the consultation process they talk about, not even one Chinese involved,” said Barbara Fung of the Chinese Benevolent Association.

    City council voted Tuesday, 10-1 to take the next step in the process for allowing supervised injection sites and have a letter sent to Health Canada offering support. Fung said there’s considerable anger that the city’s Chinese community was not even aware council planned to discuss that letter until a few days before the public hearing which began Monday.

    “We, the Chinese community, have eight percent of the population of Edmonton. I can’t see why we got ignored. That’s one thing we’re really upset about this important decision. It’s so important to the future of Chinatown.”

    They are upset with the closest of the four sites, George Spady Centre is right on their doorstep and will hurt property values and drive away business. Fung fears the consequences. “Break into somebody’s house, or catch a senior or something? Where are they going to get the money to buy the drugs? Because the government is not going to provide them the money for the drugs. Where are they going to get the money from?”

    “That the city said ‘we’re going to beautify your Chinatown so we can attract more tourism.’ But on the other hand the decision they made is going to damage Chinatown.”

    What is planned as a peaceful march will begin at 11:00 a.m. from Canada Place and move on to City Hall.

    http://www.630ched.com/2017/05/04/ch...-for-saturday/

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    Top_Dawg sez good on the Chinese Benevolent Association.

    Go get'em.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter
    ^provide the proof. Drugs/needles might be more visible in Boyle / McCauley, but that doesn't mean there are more overdoses there. People use fentanyl, and people use needles, throughout the city.


    Swillv8 has provided plenty of proof that there are massive issues with open IV drug use in the area. I am not aware of any other area of Edmonton in which this is a problem. Are you claiming there is? You're going to be the one that has to come up with "proof" here, given that it's an established fact that Boyle/McCauley have huge use of IV drugs in public.
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chinatownghettoyeg?src=hash



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    I've been talking to several people in the communities, the consensus is that there would be more support for a safe injection site(s) if the city/stakeholders would make plans to relocate one of the major shelters to another transit orientated area and set up it's own safe injection site. We feel there are agencies using this substance crises to act without license in the inner city.

    The community is tired of outsiders coming into the area for 50 years and saying "just one more service, just one more service", when there is no plan beyond that. Then labeling these areas as villains for asking questions or being concerned.

    The community is not NIMBY orientated, it's filled with very giving, accepting people, but it just can't handle anymore. Additional services can be added, but at the cost of existing services in the area planned to be relocated other areas. I don't think it's asking a lot. If a line cannot be drawn, then the city has to look at other strategies ranging from waiving taxation, or buying out people.

  82. #82

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    Nobody needing a fix is gonna hop a bus to get to a safe injection site. They'll just shoot up where they do now, out in the open in the community.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    I think you completely missed my point.

  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    I think you completely missed my point.
    You're expecting disenfranchised & homeless addicts to use transit to get around on one of the most expensive transit systems in Canada.

    I think you're the one missing the point & no amount of semantics around your NIMBY arguments makes them any less NIMBY. It's pretty evident you've got next to no understanding or compassion for what it's like to be homeless, an addict, or both.
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  85. #85

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    ^no you are wrong noodle. Nimby attitudes have created the Boyle / McCauley slum, much like in Vancouver's east side. Because no other neighborhood will accept its fair share of social services, they always get put there. You might as well wall it off and call it "homeless town", if you want to keep following those policies. Either you let the slum grow, and encourage more homeless there with even more services to tend to their every whim, and tell families to leave, or you start putting in place policies that share the burden across the city.
    Last edited by moahunter; 09-05-2017 at 10:00 AM.

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    Right back at you noodle. Lets see one of these centres open up next door to you. You can make a nice pie and bring it right on over to welcome everyone in!

    Reread my post. I'm not expecting anyone to get onto the bus to go anywhere.

    I've been talking to several people in the communities, the consensus is that there would be more support for a safe injection site(s) if the city/stakeholders would make plans to relocate one of the major shelters to another transit orientated area and set up it's own safe injection site. We feel there are agencies using this substance crises to act without license in the inner city.

    The community is tired of outsiders coming into the area for 50 years and saying "just one more service, just one more service", when there is no plan beyond that. Then labeling these areas as villains for asking questions or being concerned.

    The community is not NIMBY orientated, it's filled with very giving, accepting people, but it just can't handle anymore. Additional services can be added, but at the cost of existing services in the area planned to be relocated other areas. I don't think it's asking a lot. If a line cannot be drawn, then the city has to look at other strategies ranging from waiving taxation, or buying out people.

    How noodle sees it:

    I want them ALL out! Put the safe injection sites at Century Park and have the addicts LRT there just to shoot up then come on home back to McCauley!


  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Nimby attitudes have created the Boyle / McCauley slum, much like in Vancouver's east side.
    Absolutely.

    Residents in Boyle/McCaulay are merely advocating to improve their already-stressed neighborhoods, and are upset that the city returns the favor by proposing more drop-in social services that will concentrate vagrants and vulnerable people to an even higher degree. That's not NIMBY-ism, that's a reasonable position and perfectly rational outrage.

  88. #88

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    I live a couple blocks away from a methadone clinic & multiple halfway, transitional & group homes. I've also spent time actually literally homeless & more time helping opiate addicts in/through recovery. I also spent 3 years living in The Quarters. I'm not pontificating from the suburbs.

    I've been talking to several people in the communities, the consensus is that there would be more support for a safe injection site(s) if the city/stakeholders would make plans to relocate one of the major shelters to another transit orientated area and set up it's own safe injection site. We feel there are agencies using this substance crises to act without license in the inner city.
    This is so mindbogglingly inane. No facility is an island unto itself. Putting one social service location somewhere isolated from the concentration downtown will ensure its non-use by those it targets. You can't just pick up a segment of a community or population & plunk it down somewhere else. Your disdain for those less fortunate is palpable & revolting. You want to set up homeless "reserves" all around the city so you can appropriate a community that is as much theirs as it is yours & gentrify it to your own ends, getting rid of the less desirables by putting them somewhere else "for their own good".

    You're more revolting than anyone trying to scrape by in your neighbourhood.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  89. #89
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    From someone like you, who comes here with no real opinions, or even wanting to talk about any solutions, I take that as a genuine compliment. Libertards think everything is revolting

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I live a couple blocks away from a methadone clinic & multiple halfway, transitional & group homes. I've also spent time actually literally homeless & more time helping opiate addicts in/through recovery. I also spent 3 years living in The Quarters. I'm not pontificating from the suburbs.
    I care about as much as you cared when I said something very similar in another thread and you blasted me for it.

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    From someone like you, who comes here with no real opinions, or even wanting to talk about any solutions, I take that as a genuine compliment. Libertards think everything is revolting
    I take "Libtard" as the highest compliment when it's spewed from the gob of a regressive illiberal sociopath. So thanks!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  92. #92

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    The services are needed in this area. That's why they are putting them in this area. Nimbys don't want it in there area, because they seem to believe they are not needed in the area, and that by somehow placing the safe injection sites somewhere else where they aren't needed will keep junkies away from their neighbourhood when they already live there?

  93. #93

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    Pretty much.

    Forcible relocation of "undesirables" has always gone so swimmingly in the past too.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  94. #94

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    The residents of Boyle/McCaulay aren't trying to Terwillegar this, they are merely asking to move one (of the 3 proposed sites) to a different neighborhood. Considering this isn't the only area of the city where people are shooting up, a request to spread them out slightly is not unreasonable.

  95. #95

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    Did you see the heat map posted earlier? Do you know how to read a heat map? Boyle/McCaulay is the place these sites are needed.

    I know you have selective reading based on the other threads I've seen you participate in MrOilers, so I will repost the map in case you've missed it, or, purposely ignored it.


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    that big massive blob just north of DT covers several neighbourhoods. They don't all have to be centralized within a couple blocks of each other like they are now.

  97. #97

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    ^No you are right, but the groups proposing to run the sites also don't have unlimited resources, and need to be as efficient as possible. Stretching out to new sites will cost them more than locating in existing spaces.

    And as I previously pointed out - high risk populations like this particularly, do NOT travel to access services - health or social.

  98. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    that big massive blob just north of DT covers several neighbourhoods. They don't all have to be centralized within a couple blocks of each other like they are now.
    There certainly is a bit of a spread, but part of that has to do with the nature of the heatmap as a visualization tool.

    That being said, safe injection sites are to be set up in conjunction with a specific set of supporting/wrap-around social services which currently exist only in a few places, all of which are in the core. Since the lion's share of these services' mandates deal with issues other than IVDU & associated harm reduction strategies it'd be inappropriate to just up & move them just to placate NIMBYs. Should we look at places outside the core for future expansions? Sure. But to remove a chunk of depended-on services from the community isn't appropriate or productive.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    The residents of Boyle/McCaulay aren't trying to Terwillegar this, they are merely asking to move one (of the 3 proposed sites) to a different neighborhood. Considering this isn't the only area of the city where people are shooting up, a request to spread them out slightly is not unreasonable.
    They should, imagine the bloody outrage..LOL

    What they are asking is certainly not unreasonable, but Donnie will think so.

  100. #100

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    They're not embedding the safe injection sites in existing social services directly for the lower cost, but for the increased efficacy of the harm reduction strategies, which then propagate further cost savings.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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