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Thread: Trump on immigration, big beautiful walls, etc

  1. #1

    Default Trump on immigration, big beautiful walls, etc

    " Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Answer: No way in Hell if doing so hurts the Trump case.

    Two seconds with Google would have found the facts but instead they circulate a picture of a wall and call the Pope a hypocrite.



    No, Internet, the Vatican is not a walled city

    "After this week’s kerfuffle between GOP frontrunner Donald Trump and Pope Francis about whether building border walls is a Christ-like act, Trump supporters and others gleefully proclaimed the pope a hypocrite because the Vatican itself is completely surrounded by a big wall.

    Except that it’s not."


    ...
    This map, also circulating, shows St. Peter’s Square, on the right, closed off from the street by a wall. ...

    https://cruxnow.com/church/2016/02/1...a-walled-city/

    Bolding was mine
    Last edited by KC; 24-05-2017 at 09:21 AM.

  2. #2

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    Another Trump bashing thread.
    Some are going to argue that there are wall around Vatican (City). Apparently Pope Leonine built them to keep Muslims out.


    http://www.hannity.com/articles/war-...uilt-14400553/
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  3. #3

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    Its interesting how we can have one Liberal / Trudeau thread, one Notley / NDP thread, but that Trump is supposedly so much more important (presumably because he is not a left winger and is in the US), that he needs multiple threads to discuss him.

  4. #4

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    One Trudeau thread is on to many. Trudeau is a lightweight.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  5. #5

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    Except there's waaay more than 1 Notley/NDP thread. Hell, there's three with her name in the title on the front page of the Alberta Politics subforum, and then there's all the other policy-related threads. And any thread with Gem in it has a 99% chance of becoming "a Trudeau thread" within a handful of posts if we consider her tired ad hominems a valid discussion of Trudeau as an individual or Liberal policies in general.

    But don't let reality get in the way of your rhetoric, conservatives. I mean, ludicrous claims debunked in seconds via a cursory internet search are the height of presidential behaviours!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  6. #6

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    We could start a "Notley Scandals" thread, but it would be empty.
    There can only be one.

  7. #7

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    ^Perhaps, Notley seems a smart woman, its just a shame most of the people in her party are empty in their heads, which doesn't make up for how big their hearts supposedly are.

  8. #8

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    In spite of her political leanings Notley seems like a nice person.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  9. #9

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    Libya was one of the countries on President Trump's attempted travel ban:


    Manchester Bombers's Father Says Son made Regular Visits to Libya: http://archive.is/odAgf

  10. #10

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    I don't think her political leanings are outside the mainstream even in Alberta, it's mostly here party affiliation that makes her seem that way. The "adults" in the Alberta NDP have been mostly moderates as long as I can remember, there are a few MLAs now who might fit the fringe campus NDP mold but she has done a good job keeping them in check.

    As long as she remains firmly in the saddle I will vote NDP, but the minute it look like the leadership might fall to a "meddling" type progressive I will be looking for a different centrist option.
    There can only be one.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Libya was one of the countries on President Trump's attempted travel ban:


    Manchester Bombers's Father Says Son made Regular Visits to Libya: http://archive.is/odAgf
    Which, if the UK had a similar attempted travel ban, wouldn't have prevented a UK citizen from visiting Libya and returning. Like in this case.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Libya was one of the countries on President Trump's attempted travel ban:


    Manchester Bombers's Father Says Son made Regular Visits to Libya: http://archive.is/odAgf
    Which, if the UK had a similar attempted travel ban, wouldn't have prevented a UK citizen from visiting Libya and returning. Like in this case.
    Exactly. The travel ban applies to citizens of those countries. It doesn't prevent American citizens from travelling to and from them.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Libya was one of the countries on President Trump's attempted travel ban:

    Manchester Bombers's Father Says Son made Regular Visits to Libya: http://archive.is/odAgf
    Which, if the UK had a similar attempted travel ban, wouldn't have prevented a UK citizen from visiting Libya and returning. Like in this case.
    Yes, I was reading an article from the UK that said there were actually a lot of people of Libyan descent in the Manchester area. Apparently many fled from Qaddafi in the 1980's so they have been there a long time now, not recent immigrants. I am guessing by those dates that they came when Thatcher was still PM of the UK and most of the youth being radicalized were mostly actually born in the UK and are therefore citizens.

    This suspected terrorist traveled to Libya, but he had close family there so I am not sure that trip would have aroused too much suspicion. It was mentioned he traveled to Syria as well, which perhaps did arouse some suspicion as I gather the authorities were aware of him. However, I am not sure if they were monitoring him very closely as they didn't have any information he posed a likely threat.

    I suppose the UK could ban travel to certain countries like Libya, but then people might just book trips through other countries (like Turkey or Egypt) to get around it and the authorities then might not know their final destination. At least now they have a better idea of where they are actually going.

    In summary, blanket travel bans and immigration restrictions are not going to work as most of the youth in Europe and elsewhere being radicalized were born there or have already been there for many years.

  14. #14

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    The Wall

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Libya was one of the countries on President Trump's attempted travel ban:

    Manchester Bombers's Father Says Son made Regular Visits to Libya: http://archive.is/odAgf
    Which, if the UK had a similar attempted travel ban, wouldn't have prevented a UK citizen from visiting Libya and returning. Like in this case.
    Yes, I was reading an article from the UK that said there were actually a lot of people of Libyan descent in the Manchester area. Apparently many fled from Qaddafi in the 1980's so they have been there a long time now, not recent immigrants. I am guessing by those dates that they came when Thatcher was still PM of the UK and most of the youth being radicalized were mostly actually born in the UK and are therefore citizens.

    This suspected terrorist traveled to Libya, but he had close family there so I am not sure that trip would have aroused too much suspicion. It was mentioned he traveled to Syria as well, which perhaps did arouse some suspicion as I gather the authorities were aware of him. However, I am not sure if they were monitoring him very closely as they didn't have any information he posed a likely threat.

    I suppose the UK could ban travel to certain countries like Libya, but then people might just book trips through other countries (like Turkey or Egypt) to get around it and the authorities then might not know their final destination. At least now they have a better idea of where they are actually going.

    In summary, blanket travel bans and immigration restrictions are not going to work as most of the youth in Europe and elsewhere being radicalized were born there or have already been there for many years.

    His father was arrested, that close family??

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Another Trump bashing thread.
    Some are going to argue that there are wall around Vatican (City). Apparently Pope Leonine built them to keep Muslims out.


    http://www.hannity.com/articles/war-...uilt-14400553/
    Not bashing Trump. Why would you come to that conclusion?

    Bashing his supporters that can't or won't let facts get in their in order to create their pro-Trump propaganda? Yes.

    I fully understand the argument for a wall and empathize with Americans that feel that their immigration system and immigrants should follow legal pathways and not reward the illegal behaviour. Similarly I believe winning arguments and policy positions through a legimate presentation of factual information and not bogus highly selective crap.



    In fact, Vatican City is wide open to anyone who wants to stroll down ... The only thing that may slow you down are metal detectors.

    In the square, ... open to the adjacent streets, designed to symbolically welcome you into the arms of Holy Mother Church.

    https://cruxnow.com/church/2016/02/1...a-walled-city/
    Last edited by KC; 24-05-2017 at 05:10 PM.

  17. #17

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    Remember everyone, to some people you are not a thinking individual, you are a stereotype - and don't ever forget it. And sometimes they may actually be right.

    Texas sheriff defends Facebook post on Manchester attack

    Mr Murphree wrote on Monday after the attack: "This is what happens when you disarm your citizens. When you open your borders without the proper vetting.

    "When you allow political correctness to dictate how you respond to an enemy that wants to kill you.
    "The left tells us we must submit and accept these radical beliefs and bend over backwards to make sure we don't hurt anybody's feelings."

    "The left wants to cater to the very group that would kill every group they claim to support. Folks this is an enemy hell bent on killing you," he continued.

    He later wrote: "You better wake up America. While you are distracted by the media and the crying of the left, Islamic Jihadist are among us and want to kill you."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-engl...ester-40007967

  18. #18

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    Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian.


  19. #19

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    Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian. They have the same number of deaths as Manchester every three days on average.


  20. #20
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    And this same good ol' boy sheriff was yapping off about transgendered people:"Last April, while running for office, Mr Murphree was criticised for posting about North Carolina's transgender "bathroom bill".
    The law banned transgender people from using toilets in accordance with their chosen gender.
    Mr Murphree suggested he would assault any man who entered the same toilet as his daughter, sparking backlash among the transgender community.
    He later told the local ABC affiliate WFAA the post "was a mistake"."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40032897


    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian. They have the same number of deaths as Manchester every three days on average.

    Well isn't that special...

    The right to bear arms, especially in Texas, makes everyone so much safer than in England. With everyone carrying guns, why do the need a a police force in Texas, let alone a Sheriff with a mouth as big as the State itself?
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian. They have the same number of deaths as Manchester every three days on average.

    Well isn't that special...

    The right to bear arms, especially in Texas, makes everyone so much safer than in England. With everyone carrying guns, why do the need a a police force in Texas, let alone a Sheriff with a mouth as big as the State itself?
    3,203!!! They've now even exceeded the total 911 casualty count of 2,996.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian.
    Well of course. Most people in Texas (and in the entire Western Hemisphere, really) are from a Christian background.

    No matter what people do - good or bad - ALL stats are going to be skewed towards "a Christian did it". (Unless it's a public bombing or car/knife attack - Muslim people cornered the market on that)

  24. #24

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    I ask you, how often has a member of the public in the US, stopped a terrorist attack or even a mass shooting?

    As far as I recall, every State and town has an effective police department that are more than capable in maintaining the peace against "hordes of Muslims" that are on every market corner. I find it ironic that there have been terrorist/mass shootings at US military installations where even there, few personnel carry a gun but instead rely on the Military Police and posted guards.
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  25. #25

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    WTF?

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  26. #26

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    Boom! 4th Circuit Court of Appeal upholds Block on Muslim Ban 2.0.


    "The question for this Court, distilled to its essential form, is whether the
    Constitution, as the Supreme Court declared in Ex parte Milligan, 71 U.S. (4 Wall.) 2,
    120 (1866), remains “a law for rulers and people, equally in war and in peace.” And if
    so, whether it protects Plaintiffs’ right to challenge an Executive Order that in text speaks
    with vague words of national security, but in context drips with religious intolerance,
    animus, and discrimination.
    Surely the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment yet
    stands as an untiring sentinel for the protection of one of our most cherished founding
    principles—that government shall not establish any religious orthodoxy, or favor or
    disfavor one religion over another."

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...mps-travel-ban

  27. #27

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    ^It will be overturned in the Supreme Court - you can't start judging legislation beyond what is written down - it ends up ridiculous. This is a political decision not a legal one.

    Some of the 13 judges on the appeals court that heard arguments earlier this month seemed sceptical of the administration’s argument.

    “Don’t we get to consider what was actually said here and said very explicitly?” said Judge James Wynn Jr, who was appointed by former US President Barack Obama, a Democrat.

    Other judges worried about using a candidate’s word to evaluate a policy’s motive.

    “Can we look at his college speeches? How about his speeches to businessmen 20 years ago?” said Judge Paul Niemeyer, who was tapped by President George HW Bush, a Republican.
    http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...44eb88f0878f93

  28. #28

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    Actually, you can. It shows intent. And Rudy Guillianni has said on the record that Trump came to him and asked how he could make his Muslim ban legal. They're not talking about college speeches or speeches from 20 years ago. It's what candidate Trump said that he would do just a few months ago. When he was in college or in business, he wasn't running for President. That's the difference.

    In this case, since it's an Executive Order and not a legislative bill, Trump is the one that they look to to determine intent.

    Legislative intent
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_intent
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 25-05-2017 at 02:06 PM.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^It will be overturned in the Supreme Court
    That's what the odds are. Especially with Gorsuch in there.



    It's going to the Supreme Court. Straight from the Attorney General: https://twitter.com/AP/status/867859151212380162

    Last edited by MrOilers; 25-05-2017 at 07:26 PM.

  30. #30

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    To be fair, Trump did say he was going to start targeting civilians that were relatives of suspected ISIS members. I'll bet that those kids won't become terrorists now.

    Oh wait....

    US-led strike kills scores of family members of Islamic State fighters in Syria

    The 68-member coalition began bombing IS in Iraq in the summer of 2014, and expanded operations to Syria on September 23 that year.


    On Thursday, a Pentagon investigation concluded that at least 105 civilians died in an anti-jihadist air strike on an IS weapons cache in Mosul in March.


    Before the new revelation, the US military had said coalition air strikes in Iraq and Syria had “unintentionally” killed 352 civilians since 2014.


    Rights groups put the number much higher, and the Observatory this week reported the highest monthly civilian death toll for the coalition’s operations in Syria.


    It said between April 23 and May 23, coalition strikes killed 225 civilians in Syria, including dozens of children.


    Reports of civilian casualties in the air campaign have swelled in recent days.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/us-l...ters-in-syria/

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Actually, you can. It shows intent. And Rudy Guillianni has said on the record that Trump came to him and asked how he could make his Muslim ban legal. They're not talking about college speeches or speeches from 20 years ago. It's what candidate Trump said that he would do just a few months ago. When he was in college or in business, he wasn't running for President. That's the difference.

    In this case, since it's an Executive Order and not a legislative bill, Trump is the one that they look to to determine intent.

    Legislative intent
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_intent
    Courts are only able to look to legislative intent, if the legislation is unclear. And even then, its restricted normally to looking at hansard and similar. This legislation isn't unclear, it says clearly which countries are banned, and says nothing about religion. As one of the judges pointed out, can a judge then overturn legislation based on something someone said a year ago? How about two years ago? Ten years ago? Twenty years ago? Its just a mockery, this political decision by politically biased judges, will be overturned.

  32. #32

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    Seeing as previous courts have already used Trump's previous comments against him, I would say that they're more informed of what's appropriate than you are.

    And, as I pointed out, Trump made his comments about banning Muslims as a candidate, not as a private citizen and not ten or twenty years ago. And you also ignored the fact that Rudy Guillianni, one of the drafters of Muslim band 1 & 2, has stated that Trump specifically asked for a way to make a Muslim ban legal.

    There's also the question of why he didn't include Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the most to most of the 9/11 attackers. Could it be that he has business dealings there that he doesn't have in other countries?

  33. #33

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    Saudi and Egypt are not part of ISIS' self-proclaimed caliphate.

  34. #34

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    How not to make friends with moderate Muslims

    Tillerson declines to host Ramadan event at State Department - sources
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-re...-idUSKBN18M2IE
    Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has declined a request to host an event to mark Islam's holy month of Ramadan, two U.S. officials said, apparently breaking with a bipartisan tradition in place with few exceptions for nearly 20 years.


    Since 1999, Republican and Democratic secretaries of state have nearly always hosted either an iftar dinner to break the day's fast during Ramadan or a reception marking the Eid al-Fitr holiday at the end of the month, at the State Department.


    Tillerson turned down a request from the State Department's Office of Religion and Global Affairs to host an Eid al-Fitr reception as part of Ramadan celebrations, said two U.S. officials who declined to be identified because they were not authorized to speak publicly.


    According to an April 6 memo seen by Reuters, the office - which typically initiates such events - recommended that Tillerson hold an Eid al-Fitr reception.


    His rejection of the request suggests there are no plans this year for any high-profile Ramadan function at the State Department. The month of fasting and prayer for Muslims gets under way in many countries on Saturday.
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  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Saudi and Egypt are not part of ISIS' self-proclaimed caliphate.
    Most of the countries on the banned list aren't part of it either

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Saudi and Egypt are not part of ISIS' self-proclaimed caliphate.
    Saudi Arabia is the largest state sponsor of terror in the world, but because they "Buy American" they get turned a blind eye.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  37. #37

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    Didn't 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers come from Saudi Arabia?
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  38. #38

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    15 of 19 - Saudi Arabia
    2 of 19 - United Arab Emerites
    1 of 19 - Egypt
    1 of 19 - Lebanon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijack...acks#Hijackers



    https://www.forbes.com/sites/datades.../#5ed35e0c4694

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Saudi and Egypt are not part of ISIS' self-proclaimed caliphate.
    Most of the countries on the banned list aren't part of it either
    That is also true.

  40. #40

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    I really like listening and reading Fareed Zakaria's views on events.


    He points out rightfully that Iran is not the main problem. The source for jihadist terrorism is Saudi Arabia.

    I still have serious issues with past Presidents including George Bush, Obama and now Trump cosying up to this powerful but dangerous Kingdom.



    How Saudi Arabia played Donald Trump
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.feff5ca78dc7
    Trump’s speech on Islam was nuanced and showed empathy for the Muslim victims of jihadist terrorism (who make up as much as 95 percent of the total, by one estimate). He seemed to zero in on the problem when he said, “No discussion of stamping out this threat would be complete without mentioning the government that gives terrorists . . . safe harbor, financial backing and the social standing needed for recruitment.”

    But Trump was talking not of his host, Saudi Arabia, but rather of Iran. Now, to be clear, Iran is a destabilizing force in the Middle East and supports some very bad actors. But it is wildly inaccurate to describe it as the source of jihadist terror. According to an analysis of the Global Terrorism Database by Leif Wenar of King’s College London, more than 94 percent of deaths caused by Islamic terrorism since 2001 were perpetrated by the Islamic State, al-Qaeda and other Sunni jihadists. Iran is fighting those groups, not fueling them. Almost every terrorist attack in the West has had some connection to Saudi Arabia. Virtually none has been linked to Iran.


    Trump has adopted the Saudi line on terrorism, which deflects any blame from the kingdom and redirects it toward Iran. The Saudis showered Trump’s inexperienced negotiators with attention, arms deals and donations to a World Bank fund that Ivanka Trump is championing. (Candidate Trump wrote in a Facebook post in 2016, “Saudi Arabia and many of the countries that gave vast amounts of money to the Clinton Foundation want women as slaves and to kill gays. Hillary must return all money from such countries!”) In short, the Saudis played Trump.
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  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I really like listening and reading Fareed Zakaria's views on events.


    He points out rightfully that Iran is not the main problem. The source for jihadist terrorism is Saudi Arabia.

    I still have serious issues with past Presidents including George Bush, Obama and now Trump cosying up to this powerful but dangerous Kingdom.



    How Saudi Arabia played Donald Trump
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.feff5ca78dc7
    Trump’s speech on Islam was nuanced and showed empathy for the Muslim victims of jihadist terrorism (who make up as much as 95 percent of the total, by one estimate). He seemed to zero in on the problem when he said, “No discussion of stamping out this threat would be complete without mentioning the government that gives terrorists . . . safe harbor, financial backing and the social standing needed for recruitment.”

    But Trump was talking not of his host, Saudi Arabia, but rather of Iran. Now, to be clear, Iran is a destabilizing force in the Middle East and supports some very bad actors. But it is wildly inaccurate to describe it as the source of jihadist terror. According to an analysis of the Global Terrorism Database by Leif Wenar of King’s College London, more than 94 percent of deaths caused by Islamic terrorism since 2001 were perpetrated by the Islamic State, al-Qaeda and other Sunni jihadists. Iran is fighting those groups, not fueling them. Almost every terrorist attack in the West has had some connection to Saudi Arabia. Virtually none has been linked to Iran.


    Trump has adopted the Saudi line on terrorism, which deflects any blame from the kingdom and redirects it toward Iran. The Saudis showered Trump’s inexperienced negotiators with attention, arms deals and donations to a World Bank fund that Ivanka Trump is championing. (Candidate Trump wrote in a Facebook post in 2016, “Saudi Arabia and many of the countries that gave vast amounts of money to the Clinton Foundation want women as slaves and to kill gays. Hillary must return all money from such countries!”) In short, the Saudis played Trump.
    Unlike Saudi Arabia, no Trump hotels or golf courses in Iran. Is is a coincidence or does his foreign policy seem to mirror his private interests?

  42. #42

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    Iran is an ally of Russia. If Trump had a personal partnership with Russia (as many of his critics claim) he should also be building a partnership with Iran, no?

  43. #43

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    Iran is the boogeyman. If Trump moved in there, he's lose his business dealing with the Saudis.

  44. #44

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    Trump Administration Keeps its Promise: Begins Removing Violent Gang Members, Criminals, and Predators from American Communities

    Just yesterday, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) announced the arrests of nearly 200 individuals in Southern California. These arrests arise out of a five-day operation targeting at-large criminal aliens, illegal re-entrants, and immigration fugitives. Almost 90 percent of those arrested had prior criminal convictions—including convictions for domestic violence, battery, sex crimes, manslaughter, assault, arson, and cruelty to a child.

    Last week, ICE announced that in the 100 days since President Trump signed his Executive Orders on immigration enforcement, the agency has arrested roughly 30,000 convicted criminal aliens whose offenses range from homicide and assault, to sexual abuse and drug-related activity.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...g-violent-gang

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Trump Administration Keeps its Promise: Begins Removing Violent Gang Members, Criminals, and Predators from American Communities

    Just yesterday, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) announced the arrests of nearly 200 individuals in Southern California. These arrests arise out of a five-day operation targeting at-large criminal aliens, illegal re-entrants, and immigration fugitives. Almost 90 percent of those arrested had prior criminal convictions—including convictions for domestic violence, battery, sex crimes, manslaughter, assault, arson, and cruelty to a child.

    Last week, ICE announced that in the 100 days since President Trump signed his Executive Orders on immigration enforcement, the agency has arrested roughly 30,000 convicted criminal aliens whose offenses range from homicide and assault, to sexual abuse and drug-related activity.
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...g-violent-gang
    They're also releasing personal information about abuse victims. Hooray for them!

    DHS Public Database Includes Personal Information of Abuse Victims


    "Earlier this month, the center was able to find the personal information of one of its clients in the database. The group then reached out to attorneys who work with immigrant survivors; together, they confirmed that the names, custody status, and detention location of other survivors were searchable in the DHS-VINE system. The database also includes information about where detainees are housed and sends notifications when they are transferred or released, potentially allowing abusers or traffickers to find their victims and cause further harm. "Their listing in the public database is a violation of federal statute which carries significant penalties under the law, and puts survivors' lives in danger," the center notes in its letter.
    Immigrant advocates first notified ICE of the problem earlier this month but received no response. They then sent a second letter on May 25, calling for the information of survivors to be pulled from the system immediately or for DHS-VINE to be shut down by Friday."

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...r-dhs-database
    And then there's this as well. The attorney sounds like just the sort of guy Trump would want in his cabinet.

    Defense attorney arrested after telling rape victim Trump would deport her if she testified

    "The Baltimore Sun reports that attorney Christos Vasiliades and his associate Edgar Ivan Rodriquez were recorded telling the victim’s husband that Immigration and Customs Enforcement was likely to pick up his wife if she testified in court and then have her deported.
    “You know how things are with Trump’s laws now; someone goes to court, and boom, they get taken away,” Rodriguez said in the recording.
    Under the Trump administration, ICE has regularly detained undocumented immigrants after staking out courthouses where they know they’ll be testifying.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/defe...she-testified/

  46. #46

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    ^ Oh, give me a break. Instead of giving credit where credit is due, you are always saying "well what, doesn't anyone care about THAT victim over there?" as if it is some sort of legitimate argument. Well, it's not.

  47. #47

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    is MrOilers actually Sean Spicer?

  48. #48

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    Apparently he believes that you Make America Great Again by releasing the names and contact information of abuse victims. That'll show em!

    Actually, Trump just doesn't want any foreign competition for good 'ole AmericanGang Members, Criminals, and Predators.

    White House budget slashes program to fight violent extremism at home

    Conservatives say the program obscures the biggest threat to national security because it doesn’t focus solely on Islamic terrorism.




    Ironically, both sides may soon get their wish to see the program end. The White House’s new budget proposal would slash all funding for CVE, bringing the $50 million allocated for the program down to zero in the next fiscal year.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/whit...emism-at-home/
    Violent extremism at home. You know, like this guy....

    Two dead, another injured in MAX train stabbing attack; one person in custody

    "Prior to the attack, police say the suspect was yelling hateful statements at two Muslim girls, one of whom was wearing a hijab. His speech was not specifically anti-Muslim and his behavior was erratic, Portland Police Bureau Sgt. Pete Simpson said.


    The suspect then stabbed two bystanders who attempted to de-escalate the situation, police confirmed. A third person was stabbed as well.


    "When the train stopped moving, the guy who stabbed them was cursing and he said, 'This is free America, I can do whatever I want,'" a witness said.


    Saturday morning, police identified the suspect as 35-year-old Jeremy Joseph Christian of North Portland.
    Christian was seen at a march in Portland several weeks ago, where he was spotted giving what looked like the Nazi salute while hurling various insults at protesters."

    http://Two dead, another injured in ...son in custody



    MAX triple stabbing suspect facing murder, hate crime charges

    "[The suspect] said, 'Get off the bus, and get out of the country because you don't pay taxes here,' [he said he] doesn't like Muslims, they're criminals," Evelin Hernandez, who witnessed the attack, told KATU News.
    "When the train stopped moving, the guy who stabbed them was cursing and he said, 'This is free America, I can do whatever I want,'" a witness said.

    http://katu.com/news/local/max-tripl...-crime-charges

    Looks like a fine, upstanding American citizen.

    Last edited by kkozoriz; 27-05-2017 at 02:33 PM.

  49. #49

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    Give me a break.

    The fact that an insane Bernie supporter went on a public stabbing spree does not mean that Islamic terrorist attacks are not a huge problem in the world.

  50. #50

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    Ramadan body count: 78 Killed, 29 Injured

    2017.05.28 Mosul, Iraq - 12 killed as Caliphate members set fire to a hospital and execute a dozen young people inside.
    2017.05.27 Khost, Afghanistan - 18 killed, 6 injured as a suicide car bomber slaughters eighteen at a public bus station.
    2017.05.27 Philippines - 19 killed - three women and a child are among nineteen civilians found slain by Islamic extremists near a university.
    2017.05.26 Minya, Egypt - 29 killed, 23 injured as Christians (including 10 children) on their way to a monastery shot in mass shooting by Islamic gunmen.

  51. #51

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    OK, we can play this too.


    Yesterday, the Department of Defense responded to an incident that killed 105 civilians in Mosul, Iraq, back in March when a bomb was dropped on a building with two ISIS snipers — and over a hundred civilians.


    On Friday, Al Jazeera reports that more than 106 civilians, including 42 children, died during two days of bombing in Al-Mayadeen, Syria, by the US-led anti-ISIS coalition. The planes fired strikes at buildings that housed families of ISIS fighters.


    Basically, because the US chooses to fight ISIS primarily from the skies, it was inevitable that civilians would become collateral damage. America is good at dropping bombs exactly where it wants to, but it can’t control the explosion and those who might get hurt as the dust settles. The Pentagon knows this, of course, but it has historically done a very poor job policing itself and its allies to take all measures to minimize innocent deaths.

    According to Airwars, a watchdog group that monitors the anti-ISIS coalition’s operations, 3,681 civilians have died since the anti-ISIS coalition was formed in September 2014.


    But what else was to be expected? The Obama administration decided to pursue an air campaign against ISIS because it didn’t want troops on the ground in the Middle East. After all, that’s what Obama campaigned against. Trump decided not only to follow the Obama administration’s approach — but also decided to accelerate it.

    During the presidential campaign, then-candidate Donald Trump sent a clear message to voters: He would “bomb the ****” out of ISIS.



    https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/26/...-syria-mayadin

  52. #52

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    ^ Another useless, deflective argument.

    The fact that people are dying in wars does not mean that Islamic terrorist attacks are not a huge problem in the world.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 29-05-2017 at 06:57 AM.

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Give me a break.

    The fact that an insane Bernie supporter went on a public stabbing spree does not mean that Islamic terrorist attacks are not a huge problem in the world.
    I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of terrorism is conducted by people with some sort of mental issues.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    ^ Another useless, deflective argument.

    The fact that people are dying in wars does not mean that Islamic terrorist attacks are not a huge problem in the world.
    Then why isn't Trump trying to ban people from ALL Muslim nations from entering the US? Why isn't he banning people from Saudi Arabia, who contributed most of the 9/11 terrorists?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  55. #55

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    I can give you a hundred billion reasons...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  56. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    ^ Another useless, deflective argument.

    The fact that people are dying in wars does not mean that Islamic terrorist attacks are not a huge problem in the world.
    Then why isn't Trump trying to ban people from ALL Muslim nations from entering the US? Why isn't he banning people from Saudi Arabia, who contributed most of the 9/11 terrorists?
    Saudi Arabia is an ally of Israel (quietly). The US wants to sell arms to Saudi Arabia. Like it or not, as President, Trump has the authority for US political reasons, security reasons, any reasons, to choose which countries he allows immigrants from. He was elected, its his prerogative not the courts to decide (as they weren't elected). Trudeaus government exercises the same authority, its a lot easier to visit Canada from Israel than from Iran.

  57. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Give me a break.

    The fact that an insane Bernie supporter went on a public stabbing spree does not mean that Islamic terrorist attacks are not a huge problem in the world.
    I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of terrorism is conducted by people with some sort of mental issues.
    Do you mean like narcissistic behaviour, xenophobia, Christianophobia/Islamophobia?
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  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Give me a break.

    The fact that an insane Bernie supporter went on a public stabbing spree does not mean that Islamic terrorist attacks are not a huge problem in the world.
    I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of terrorism is conducted by people with some sort of mental issues.
    Do you mean like narcissistic behaviour, xenophobia, Christianophobia/Islamophobia?
    More like not giving a **** about anyone but themselves and their closed minded ideological beliefs.

    Portland attack: Trump urged to speak up over killings - BBC News
    Excerpt:
    "Eyewitness Michael Kennedy said the stabbing was a terrorist attack"

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40084410

  59. #59

  60. #60

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    ^we clearly need to spend taxpayer dollars on prayer rooms in schools so that we can have more such peace.

  61. #61

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    The Ramadan bombathon continues:

    ISIS claims responsibility for 13 killed, 24 injured in Baghdad ice cream shop blast:
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05...hers-hurt.html

  62. #62

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    How many refugees have killed someone in the USA since 1980?

  63. #63

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    Lincoln County, Mississippi deputy, seven others killed in shooting spree; suspect in custody
    http://www.dailyleader.com/2017/05/2...ounty-officer/


    Large spikes in handgun acquisitions seen in aftermath of mass shootings
    AMERICAN COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS
    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-lsi042517.php
    Large increases in handgun acquisitions occurred in California immediately following the mass shootings in Newtown, Connecticut in 2012 and San Bernardino, California in 2015. The spikes were short-lived and accounted for less than 10 percent of annual handgun acquisitions statewide, but researchers express concern about whether repeated shocks of this kind could lead to substantial increases in the prevalence of firearm ownership. The findings are published in Annals of Internal Medicine.

    Each year in the United States, more than 32,000 people die of gunshot wounds. While mass shootings account for less than 1 percent of those deaths, they are the most visible form of firearm violence. Mass shootings may boost firearm sales among people who are concerned about personal protection or among those who fear that the government will react to the mass shooting with increased gun control measures. News stories and two studies have reported sharp increases in handgun acquisition after several mass shootings, but the size and nature of these increases have not been well-described.
    With 22 dead in the Manchester bombing is shocking but 88 people die every day in the United States (one Manchester bombing every 6 hours)
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  64. #64

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    Place your bets, everyone:

    BREAKING: Car ploughs into police officers in Goteborg, Sweden, injuring one, two men in the car reportedly shot by police.

    https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/st...32203339980804

    Even without that attack, after 4 days the scorecard for the Ramadan Month of Conquests is 120 killed in 13 attacks. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Place your bets, everyone:

    BREAKING: Car ploughs into police officers in Goteborg, Sweden, injuring one, two men in the car reportedly shot by police.

    https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/st...32203339980804

    Even without that attack, after 4 days the scorecard for the Ramadan Month of Conquests is 120 killed in 13 attacks. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Each year in the United States, more than 32,000 people die of gunshot wounds

  66. #66

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    In England, wiki reports only one stabbed in Westminster Attack for all of 2016
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_line_of_duty
    1 in 65 million population

    In the USA, the Officer Down Memorial Page reports 79 deaths in the line of duty in 2016
    https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2016
    79 in 321 million population = 16 times the death rate for police officers compared to Britain
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  67. #67

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    Act of Islamic peace and tolerance foiled in Germany:


    German police arrest suspect allegedly planning suicide attack in Berlin

    A teenage asylum-seeker suspected of planning a suicide attack in Berlin has been arrested in the German state of Brandenburg. He reportedly wrote to his mother about his intentions.

    http://www.dw.com/en/german-police-a...lin/a-39047741

  68. #68

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    Terrorist attack foiled in Paris - 2 arrested, tried to activate explosives, nearby cafes evacuated

    https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/st...09652799107072

  69. #69

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    Manchester Jihad Bomber had reported his teacher for "Islamophobia"

    http://pamelageller.com/2017/05/manc...mophobia.html/

  70. #70

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    From 2016 so it doesn't include Portland, etc.

    RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS ARE A BIGGER THREAT TO AMERICA THAN ISIS
    BY KURT EICHENWALD ON 2/4/16

    Clearly, these were not the typical “Islamic terrorists” described in the boogeyman stories of American politicians who exploit fear for votes. Glendon Crawford, the industrial mechanic who conceived the plan, has all the panache of a Macy’s shoe salesman; Eric Feight, a software engineer who helped build the device, looks like a less impish version of Kurt Vonnegut. But their harmless appearance belies their beliefs—Crawford was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, and the plot he hatched with Feight involved killing scores of Muslims, as well as officials at the governor’s mansion in Albany, New York and at the White House.They and untold thousands like them are the extremists who hide among us, the right-wing militants who, since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have. In that time, according to New America, a Washington think tank, Islamists launched nine attacks that murdered 45, while the right-wing extremists struck 18 times, leaving 48 dead. These Americans thrive on hate and conspiracy theories, many fed to them by politicians and commentators who blithely blather about government concentration camps and impending martial law and plans to seize guns and other dystopian gibberish, apparently unaware there are people listening who don’t know it’s all lies. These extremists turn to violence—against minorities, non-Christians, abortion providers, government officials—in what they believe is a fight to save America. And that potential for violence is escalating every day.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/r...ts-422743.html

  71. #71

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    I throght Trump's lawyers were going to proofread his twitter twits.



    Translation from Trumptonian to common English




    Now the latest word created by Trumpo is available in this fashionable T-shirt. Available in all sizes and colors including orange.

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  72. #72

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    Obviously Afghanistan needs to do more to integrate Muslims into their society:


    90 killed, over 400 injured in massive explosion in Kabul

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05...0-injured.html
    Last edited by MrOilers; 31-05-2017 at 09:29 AM.

  73. #73

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    Jared Kushner 'admitted Donald Trump lies to his base because he thinks they're stupid'
    'He just knows Republicans are stupid and they’ll buy it,' says former New York Observer editor
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7764791.html

    Donald Trump lied to his Republican base and thought they were so stupid they would believe it, according to Jared Kushner.


    Mr Kushner, a property developer who is both President Trump’s senior advisor and son-in-law, reportedly made the remarks after he was challenged about Mr Trump’s prolonged interrogation over whether Barack Obama was born in the US.


    During Mr Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign and throughout his presidency, multiple theories emerged falsely claiming he was not a natural-born American US citizen and it was therefore unconstitutional for him to become US President. Mr Trump was among those who pushed the “birther” conspiracy theory and consistently questioned former President Obama’s birthplace of Hawaii.


    The former New York Observer editor has now claimed that Mr Kushner, the former publisher of the paper, informed her that Mr Trump did not believe the “birther” lies he was peddling.


    “When I was the editor of the New York Observer, Kushner and I were going back and forth about how the paper should cover him,” Elizabeth Spiers wrote in a post on Twitter.


    “I told Jared that I was particularly appalled by his father-in-law’s birtherism stance, which I viewed as cynical and racist.


    “He rolled his eyes and said ‘He doesn’t really believe it, Elizabeth. He just knows Republicans are stupid and they’ll buy it’”.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 31-05-2017 at 10:56 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  74. #74

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    ^ so true. Look at his fan base on these forums, they just gobble up all his tweets and statements with out processing or fact checking themselves. If Donald says so, it must be true. 99% of the media is fake news, donchaknow?

  75. #75
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    Regarding U.S. gun deaths, although still a tragedy, over 60% of U.S. gun deaths are suicide.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States

  76. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Obviously Afghanistan needs to do more to integrate Muslims into their society:


    90 killed, over 400 injured in massive explosion in Kabul

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05...0-injured.html
    What's interesting to me is that a multitude of religions and subgroups (sects) co-existed together in these countries for centuries and i'm not aware of a history of frequent slaughtering of one's opponents say before a couple hundred years ago. I'm no historian though. I'm sure there were vicious sect vs sect wars, slaughters and subjugations but it seems that there may be less tolerance and a greater push for territorial dominance. Maybe the Ottoman empire had more effective anti-terrrorism deterrents.

    I'm probably wrong and just suffering the normal 'today is worse than the past' bias but one thing that has changed in the technology to kill. Relative wealth and its distribution and access available may also have changed.

  77. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Regarding U.S. gun deaths, although still a tragedy, over 60% of U.S. gun deaths are suicide.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States
    Suicide or suicided?

    Possibly their health care system combined with suboptimal mental illness support ups the rate.

  78. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ^ so true. Look at his fan base on these forums, they just gobble up all his tweets and statements with out processing or fact checking themselves. If Donald says so, it must be true. 99% of the media is fake news, donchaknow?
    News reporting isn't so much reporting anymore. It's a panel of vested interests battling it out and employing their spin tactics at every opportunity. Moreover, reporters as always, utilize wide gamut of subtle emotive words and words with various connotations to effectively spin the perception of the reader or listener.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Regarding U.S. gun deaths, although still a tragedy, over 60% of U.S. gun deaths are suicide.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States
    Your point being? Ready access to firearms makes suicide far likelier. The US suicide rate is 20% higher than Canada's, as a comparison. How much of that difference is from easy access to guns is hard to say, but it's unquestionably a factor.

  80. #80
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    My point is that the discussion was regarding danger to innocent people from terrorists and murderers. The illustrative graph was headed by this statement: "Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian."
    With 60%+ of the deaths suicide, the graphs and statistics sited are completely inaccurate.

  81. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ^ so true. Look at his fan base on these forums, they just gobble up all his tweets and statements with out processing or fact checking themselves. If Donald says so, it must be true. 99% of the media is fake news, donchaknow?
    News reporting isn't so much reporting anymore. It's a panel of vested interests battling it out and employing their spin tactics at every opportunity. Moreover, reporters as always, utilize wide gamut of subtle emotive words and words with various connotations to effectively spin the perception of the reader or listener.
    To use your words
    "I'm probably wrong and just suffering the normal 'today is worse than the past' bias but one thing that has changed in the technology to report. Relative wealth and its distribution and access available may also have changed."

    Was it ever different when W.R.Hearst ran most of the newspapers in America? Remember Citizen Kane?


    William Randolph Hearst April 29, 1863 – August 14, 1951 was an American newspaper publisher who built the nation's largest newspaper chain and media company Hearst Communications and whose flamboyant methods of yellow journalism influenced the nation's popular media by emphasizing sensationalism and human interest stories. Hearst entered the publishing business in 1887 after being given control of The San Francisco Examiner by his wealthy father. Moving to New York City, he acquired The New York Journal and fought a bitter circulation war with Joseph Pulitzer's New York World that sold papers by giant headlines over lurid stories featuring crime, corruption, graphics, sex, and innuendo. Acquiring more newspapers, Hearst created a chain that numbered nearly 30 papers in major American cities at its peak. He later expanded to magazines, creating the largest newspaper and magazine business in the world.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Hearst
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  82. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    My point is that the discussion was regarding danger to innocent people from terrorists and murderers. The illustrative graph was headed by this statement: "Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian."
    With 60%+ of the deaths suicide, the graphs and statistics sited are completely inaccurate.
    The graphs and statistics sited are completely accurate. What conclusions you want to take out of the data are arguable.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  83. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    My point is that the discussion was regarding danger to innocent people from terrorists and murderers. The illustrative graph was headed by this statement: "Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian."
    With 60%+ of the deaths suicide, the graphs and statistics sited are completely inaccurate.
    The graphs and statistics sited are completely accurate. What conclusions you want to take out of the data are arguable.
    More stats here:

    Deaths: Leading Causes for 2009
    October 26, 2012
    by Melonie Heron, Ph.D., Division of Vital Statistics
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_07.pdf

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    Regarding U.S. gun deaths, although still a tragedy, over 60% of U.S. gun deaths are suicide.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States
    Your point being? Ready access to firearms makes suicide far likelier.
    For sure. My friend was going through a tough time, and in a matter of a couple of hours he bought a gun and killed himself. No waiting period.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    The illustrative graph was headed by this statement: "Actually, you're much, much, MUCH more likely to be killed by an American. Most likely a Christian."
    Graphs and stats like that also ignore the numbers of people injured and maimed (which are always higher than the death count) in bomb blasts vs shootings.

    Also, Muslims are a tiny minority of people in the Western world, yet count for a disproportionately high amount of killing, injuring and destruction. The fact that terrorism apologists try to equate the number of murders done by white Christian Americans (probably close to 70% of the population) to a tiny subset of people tells you all you need to know about the true scale and threat of Islamic terror.

    Not only that, but because murders are done by Americans does not mean that Islamic terrorism isn't a problem. Bringing up crimes by Americans every time there is another Islamic cleansing of infidels is just a deflective arguing tactic from the left. Why they rush to defend Islamic terrorists so much is anyone's guess.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 31-05-2017 at 09:54 PM.

  86. #86

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    Do you have any statistics to back up your claims? Or are you just reading headlines from FOX and Breitbart?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  87. #87

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    Donald Trump exempts 17 senior White House staff including Steve Bannon from ethics rules
    Advisers Kellyanne Conway and Reince Priebus also among high-profile staffers granted waiver from standard conflict of interest checks
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7766301.html

    The White House disclosed Wednesday evening that it has granted ethics waivers to 17 specific appointees who work for President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, including four former lobbyists.
    Among the high-profile figures who received waivers: White House chief of staff Reince Priebus and senior adviser Kellyanne Conway, who were both permitted to engage with their former employer or clients. In addition, a blanket waiver was given to all executive office appointees to interact with news organisations — a move that gives senior strategist Stephen Bannon permission to communicate with Breitbart News, the conservative website he used to run.


    The waiver information - which was requested of all federal agencies by the Office of Government Ethics in April - provides a window into how far the Trump administration is willing to bend on its “drain the swamp” pledge. As a candidate, Trump vowed to take a hard line on lobbyists, which he promised would not shape his administration.

    Three of the former lobbyists given waivers to work in the White House serve as staffers to the National Economic Council, headed by former Goldman Sachs executive Gary Cohn.
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  88. #88
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    ^WOoooww, that's one way to drain the swamp. They can't be called out for breaking the rules if there are no rules.

    Edited for terrible early morning grammar.
    Last edited by seamusmcduffs; 01-06-2017 at 10:04 AM.

  89. #89

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    It's stuff like this that shows why the numerous investigations on all the various Trump stooges, hangers-on, cronies, bootlicks & manipulators (along with Tiny Hand Trump himself) don't want to show their hands or spring into action on consequences without everything being airtight.

    When you're dealing with a spray-tanned goon with the power to pardon his pals & otherwise exempt them from the consequences of their choices/actions you need to clean the whole shebang out in one fell swoop. Takes a lot of time & effort to wrangle that many cats.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  90. #90
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    If you want to talk about pardons check out the following: Clinton pardoned or commuted 457 sentences, Bush 200 and Obama 1927.
    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics

  91. #91

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    Much of Obama's clemency was directed towards non-violent drug offenders with unreasonably harsh sentences due to the mandatory minimum laws put in place during the counterproductive "War on Drugs".
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    If you want to talk about pardons check out the following: Clinton pardoned or commuted 457 sentences, Bush 200 and Obama 1927.
    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics
    No shocker there - left-leaning people are more likely to support and sympathize with criminals.

  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    No shocker there - left-leaning people are more likely to support and sympathize with criminals.
    More like right-wingers are fond of onerous, ineffectual & harmful mandatory minimums for non-violent offenses to prop up the corrupt for-profit prison industry& Obama campaigned with clemency as a part of his platform. Obama was just following the will of the electorate & fulfilling his promises, something you lavish nothing but praise on Trump doing.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    No shocker there - left-leaning people are more likely to support and sympathize with criminals.
    More like right-wingers are fond of onerous, ineffectual & harmful mandatory minimums for non-violent offenses to prop up the corrupt for-profit prison industry& Obama campaigned with clemency as a part of his platform. Obama was just following the will of the electorate & fulfilling his promises, something you lavish nothing but praise on Trump doing.
    All those prisons in the US full of people who committed minor crimes are very expensive to build and maintain. No wonder they have no money to provide health care for people.

    The private prison companies (yes they have privatized prisons in parts of the US) love the right wingers and give their parties big donations. It's another version of the military industrial complex. The private prison corporation complex.

  95. #95

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    MrOilers would prefer if those non-violent, predominantly minority offenders stayed in jail at the taxpayer's expense so they can be utilized as near-slave labour to increase the profitability of the private prisons. Public expenses, private profits, the cornerstone of "free market" conservatives' economic policy.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  96. #96

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    There are law-and-order republican types who make hyperbolic claims about conservative lifestyles becoming illegal.

    It makes a nice thought experiment. Would they have the same "it's the law, they broke the law, they're criminals, they can face the consequences" position if it were their people who were being locked up for, say, not registering their guns, failing to provide ID on demand, or for drinking coffee?
    There can only be one.

  97. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    There are law-and-order republican types who make hyperbolic claims about conservative lifestyles becoming illegal.

    It makes a nice thought experiment. Would they have the same "it's the law, they broke the law, they're criminals, they can face the consequences" position if it were their people who were being locked up for, say, not registering their guns, failing to provide ID on demand, or for drinking coffee?
    The same guys who don't have worry about getting pulled over because a signal light was broken.

  98. #98
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    Here is a link to the details of Obama's pardons and commutations. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/obama-commutations
    The vast majority (I guesstimate over 90%) are drug dealers dealing in coke and meth, the others are for mainly firearms offenses. Scrolling through the lists I found one person convicted of simple possession, and that was heroin (no info on his prior record). So I guess you can say dealing coke and meth is non-violent, but I for one think scummy crack dealers deserve hard time.

  99. #99

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    Crack dealers deserve hard time, but not cocaine dealers in general? Or are you just an advocate for mandatory minimums even though they've been shown to be counterproductive & costly?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  100. #100
    C2E Continued Contributor
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    Yeah most of those are reductions of long sentences that really don't match the crime at all.

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