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Thread: Trump Effect - Household Income Hits 15-Year High

  1. #301

  2. #302

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    The DOW continues to free fall. It has already lost another 267 points (1.01%) just this morning

    It has fallen from 26,616 to 25,263 in just over a week, shedding 1,353 points, a 5.3% loss.

    Trump utterly silent.

    So much winning.
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  3. #303

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    Yup, the Dow is coming down slightly from it's peak record high.

  4. #304

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    So much winning!


    Fox News pulls plug on Trump tax cut speech to break news of massive stock market sell-off

    “We are interrupting for breaking news,” Fox News anchor Shep Smith said. “There is quite a drop happening on Wall Street. A massive sell-off is happening today.”



    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/fox...rket-sell-off/

  5. #305

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    Somebody got his widdle feewing hurt.

    And people love their country. It's you that they can't stand.

    BTW, the penalty for treason ranges from not less than five years in prison all the way up to death. Is he now calling for Democrats to be executed for not clapping for him?

    Donald Trump says Democrats who didn’t applaud during his State of the Union speech are ‘treasonous’

    “Someone said ‘treasonous.’ I guess, why not?” Trump added. “Can you call that treason? Why not. I mean, they certainly didn’t seem to love our country very much.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/don...ch-treasonous/

  6. #306

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    A 9% fall in one week.
    Dow Jones hit by worst fall since 2008
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42942921

    Remind me, who was President then?

    Could it have been a Republican?

    Trump, so much winning.

    Well I guess this is out of Trump's playbook. Go bankrupt and then get a government bailout.

    no...

    wait a second....
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 05-02-2018 at 02:13 PM.
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  7. #307

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    A 9% fall in one week.
    Dow Jones hit by worst fall since 2008
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42942921

    Remind me, who was President then?

    Could it have been a Republican?

    Trump, so much winning.

    Well I guess this is out of Trump's playbook. Go bankrupt and then get a government bailout.

    no...

    wait a second....
    Trump was so quick and eager to take credit when the market was going up, so is he going to take responsibility for it going down now?

  8. #308

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    It's still at a record high.

  9. #309

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    Trump's already deflecting by calling Democrats treasonous for not standing to cheer him during his SOTU.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's still at a record high.
    So too is a guy who just jumped out of a plane at 40,000 feet without a parachute.

  11. #311

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    I suppose if the economy is going to grow at 5.4% in the 1st quarter this year (as forecast), that will lead to some inflation, which stock markets hate.

  12. #312

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's still at a record high.
    So too is a guy who just jumped out of a plane at 40,000 feet without a parachute.
    Also a record fall in just one day, 1,175 points.

    Trump in freefall, hoping for an updraft or a large pile of warm soft **** to land on.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 05-02-2018 at 02:52 PM.
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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's still at a record high.
    huh? No, it isn't. By definition it cannot be at a "record high" if it was higher last week prior to the down days. Are you having a stroke or something?

  14. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Are you having a stroke
    Never at the office. Only on my own time.

  15. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I suppose if the economy is going to grow at 5.4% in the 1st quarter this year (as forecast), that will lead to some inflation, which stock markets hate.
    FTFY

    a big "IF".

    If the market continues to crash, the economy could fall by 5.4%

    Face it, you have been drinking the purple kool-aid. This is the bitter aftertaste of cyanide.
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  16. #316

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    Well, it's Obama's economy.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Are you having a stroke
    Never at the office. Only on my own time.

  18. #318

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Well, it's Obama's economy.
    NOPE. That ended on the one year anniversary of the ******** President's election . Trump was riding the coattails of Obama for a full year. Soon as the honeymoon year was over and Trump got his yuge fabulous tax break for his rich friends, the markets took a nosedive. This is all on Trump.

    NO


    · Deflect
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    · Deny
    · Discount
    · Deceive
    · Divide
    · Dulcify
    · Discredit
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    ALLOWED
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  19. #319

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Well, it's Obama's economy.
    Sorry, the effects of Obama are now over, it's now Trumps economy, and boy, look at that. Over a Trillion dollars in value lost in a few days. I'm sure Trump will be tweeting about all that winning shortly.

  20. #320

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    Trump's tax cuts are in force. It's been over a year. Funny how it was Trump's economy right from the time of the inauguration but now it's suddenly Obama's fault.

  21. #321

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    The tax cuts are costing the US $10B to $15 EXTRA per month in lost revenue
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  22. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Trump's tax cuts are in force. It's been over a year. Funny how it was Trump's economy right from the time of the inauguration but now it's suddenly Obama's fault.
    The markets may be concerned about the inflationary impact of the tax cuts. It certainly wasn't the right time for tax cuts, the economy was already doing fairly well, so it is kind of like pouring gasoline on a fire. Now the Fed will have to raise interest rates more, which risks deflating the asset bubble too quickly. Donald probably should have gotten a PhD in Economics from somewhere other than Trump University.

  23. #323

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    But tax cuts is all they've got left. They're not FOR anything else. Once Trump gets done repealing everything Obama did, what's he got left except tax cuts and hating Muslims?

  24. #324

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    The Roaring ‘20s

    Not PC: Quotes of the Morning: Before & after the 1929 crash

    http://pc.blogspot.com/2015/08/quote...fter-1929.html

    The Roaring Twenties Bubble & the Stock Market Crash of 1929 |

    “...

    Pre-bubble boom

    For the first time it became possible for Americans to buy on credit through the credo of ‘buy now, pay later’ practices that ushered in the Roaring Twenties. Generous lines of credit were offered by department stores for families who were not able to pay upfront but who could demonstrate their ability to pay in the future. Installment plans were also offered to buyers who were not able to pay upfront. More than half of the automobiles in the nation were sold on credit by the end of the 1920s. As a result, consumer debt more than doubled during the decade (PBS, n.d).

    Bubble mania

    Overall, the goal of most Americans was to put the fear and uncertainties of the World War I behind them and return to Normalcy. The country emerged from the war with a new respect around the world by President Woodrow Wilson became poised to lead cooperation in an international arena. With his death, this spirit of international cooperation ended and the Republic Party subsequently dominated the remainder of the 1920s (PBS, n.d).

    While there was a brief depression during the first part of the decade, it eventually receded under the stewardship of President Warren Harding and his institution of federal spending and tax cuts. When Harding died suddenly in 1923 and Calving Coolidge took control of the economy, matters began to change.

    By the middle of the decade, the economy had once again become sluggish as the Reserve banks relaxed requirements for credit and more than $500 million was created in new money. Loans totaling more than $4 billion were made available to the American public. The hope was that such measures would stimulate the economy; however, the opposite occurred as more and more consumers took on an increasing amount of debt and the price of stocks and real estate began to skyrocket. In 1926, Coolidge supported the Revenue Act, which reduced taxes on individuals with higher incomes but offered little relief to middle-income families (Chris Butler, 2007).

    After Coolidge decided not to run for office two years later Herbert Hoover emerged as the candidate for the Republican Party. When he was elected to office it appeared as though the American economy was stable. Within a year the exact opposite was true. Hoover found it increasingly difficult to gain control of a rapidly worsening economic situation. As a result of the panic of stockholders selling their stocks too rapidly for the system to be able to compensate, the stock market fell in the fall of 1929. Stocks were no longer traded at face value but were instead sold at whatever price they would bring (PBS, n.d.). ...”


    http://www.thebubblebubble.com/roaring-twenties-bubble/
    Last edited by KC; 05-02-2018 at 08:19 PM.

  25. #325

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    So much winning



    $4 trillion wiped off global equity markets in the last week
    https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article/...global-markets
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  26. #326

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    Almost 5% gone.... thanks Trump!

  27. #327

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    The DOW has been falling ever since the ******** President's State of the Union speech.
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  28. #328
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    You guys ought to engage with some logical consistency. If the rise in the stock market was not Trump's direct doing, then neither are the declines. Or vice versa, if the decline is Trump's fault, then so were the rises that came before it. I fall mostly with the first. Presidents/PMs don't impact the economy on such short term timelines. This is simply the correction I mentioned was inevitable last week. It might be a bump ride for a month or two, but I doubt we're heading towards a true bear market yet.

  29. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The DOW has been falling ever since the ******** President's State of the Union speech.

    Which happened to be when the 5.4% Q1 growth forecast was reported. With an economy that hot, money will be transferred out of stocks and put into bonds.

  30. #330

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    Trump was the one pumping his chest that the stock market was his doing. He claimed that Obama handed him the worst economy when that was completely false.
    If Trump takes all the credit for the narkets going up, it is disingenuous of him to not accept that a downturn is on him. He has a history of never taking responsibility when things go wrong. Just ask laid off Carrier workers. That is the trait of a narcissist.

    Everyone knows that it takes about one year for the President's actions and government policy changes to affect the market. One year in, almost like clockwork, the markets reacted.
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  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT
    Trump was the one pumping his chest that the stock market was his doing. He claimed that Obama handed him the worst economy when that was completely false. If Trump takes all the credit for the narkets going up, it is disingenuous of him to not accept that a downturn is on him. He has a history of never taking responsibility when things go wrong.


    That's true, but that doesn't give you cause to do the exact converse. You're doing the same but opposite thing that you criticize him for. Doing so is totally lacking in logical consistency.

  32. #332

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    No, I stated all along for the past year, that if Trump is taking credit for the rising market, then he owns a falling market. I have been totally consistent.

    Trump makes statements that companies are giving employees a raise or bonus due to his tax breaks but won't say anything about companies who closed or moved operations offshore, bought equipment to automate and laid off workers, bought back stock or paid their shareholders more or are just going to sit on the piles of money that they are gaining with his yuge tax breaks.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 06-02-2018 at 09:45 AM.
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  33. #333

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    Dow closed almost 600 points up after its historic one-day loss. Crazy.

  34. #334

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    And mostly in a big twitch at the end of the day.

    The volatility isn't over.
    There can only be one.

  35. #335

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    Dow down 1,032.89, 4.15%. Waiting for the Trump apologists (Trump included) to tell us how this is the best news and that the stock market just doesn't understand how great Trump is.

  36. #336

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    US budget vote delay as senator foresees 'spending oblivion' - BBC News

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42992908

  37. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Dow down 1,032.89, 4.15%. Waiting for the Trump apologists (Trump included) to tell us how this is the best news and that the stock market just doesn't understand how great Trump is.

    Yes, down 11% and 2,756 points in less than 2 weeks. Friday could be black.

    Tired of winning yet?

    Boy those tax cuts sure fired up the economy. Fired up = burned down
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  38. #338

  39. #339

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    People are selling stocks and investing in bonds, given that the 4-5% economic growth is going to lead to an interest rate hike.

    The US economy is getting hot!

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    People are selling stocks and investing in bonds, given that the 4-5% economic growth is going to lead to an interest rate hike.

    The US economy is getting hot!
    soooo... does that mean that for the last year - when people were buying stocks and not bonds - that the us economy wasn’t hot? now i’m really confused. i no longer know whether to believe you and trump or to believe you and trump. whichever one i choose i’ll be both right and wrong at the same time. it’s as if truth doesn’t matter any more...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  41. #341

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    flip flop fan flip flops like flip flop does.

  42. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    People are selling stocks and investing in bonds, given that the 4-5% economic growth is going to lead to an interest rate hike.

    The US economy is getting hot!
    soooo... does that mean that for the last year - when people were buying stocks and not bonds - that the us economy wasn’t hot?
    Economic growth wasn't 4-5%

    So I would say it wasn't as hot.

    I fail to see how that would confuse anyone.

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    People are selling stocks and investing in bonds, given that the 4-5% economic growth is going to lead to an interest rate hike.

    The US economy is getting hot!
    soooo... does that mean that for the last year - when people were buying stocks and not bonds - that the us economy wasn’t hot? now i’m really confused. i no longer know whether to believe you and trump or to believe you and trump. whichever one i choose i’ll be both right and wrong at the same time. it’s as if truth doesn’t matter any more...
    Economic growth wasn't 4-5%

    So I would say it wasn't as hot.

    I fail to see how that would confuse anyone.
    but... but... i’m still confused - economic growth isn’t 4-5% now either.

    ps i hope you don’t mind my adding back in what you edited out of the post you quoted.
    Last edited by kcantor; 09-02-2018 at 09:04 AM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  44. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    People are selling stocks and investing in bonds, given that the 4-5% economic growth is going to lead to an interest rate hike.

    The US economy is getting hot!
    soooo... does that mean that for the last year - when people were buying stocks and not bonds - that the us economy wasn’t hot? now i’m really confused. i no longer know whether to believe you and trump or to believe you and trump. whichever one i choose i’ll be both right and wrong at the same time. it’s as if truth doesn’t matter any more...
    So, does that mean that Donald is wrong too? I'm so confused.



    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account
    @realDonaldTrump


    In the “old days,” when good news was reported, the Stock Market would go up. Today, when good news is reported, the Stock Market goes down. Big mistake, and we have so much good (great) news about the economy!

    6:59 AM - 7 Feb 2018

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...tor-2018-02-07





  45. #345

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    Stock Market still crashing

    Market summary > Dow Jones Industrial Average

    Feb. 9, 1:35 p.m. EST
    23,424.20 Price decrease
    Down 436.26 Points (-1.83%) just today!


    It was at 26,616 on Jan 26th
    DOWN 3,192 POINTS!
    Down over 13%

    Wipes out all gains made over past 3 months!

    May lead to Trump's 5th bankruptcy. The US Economy!

    Soooo much winning!

    See what happens when you try to stimulate an already hot (Obama) economy.
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  46. #346

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    People are selling stocks and investing in bonds, given that the 4-5% economic growth is going to lead to an interest rate hike.

    The US economy is getting hot!
    Bonds are falling though because bonds are even more sensitive to inflation and interest hikes than equities.

  47. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    but... but... i’m still confused - economic growth isn’t 4-5% now either.
    A week ago, the 1st Quarter growth was projected to be 5.4%. That's when this started.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 09-02-2018 at 12:40 PM.

  48. #348

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    DOWN 3,192 POINTS!
    Down over 13%

    Wipes out all gains made over past 3 months!

    Yeah now it's only equal to its previous record high that it was just before Christmas.

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    but... but... i’m still confused - economic growth isn’t 4-5% now either.
    A week ago, the 1st Quarter growth was projected to be 5.4%. That's when this started.
    ????? you have one notoriously wrong forecaster that threw that @rap projection on the wall to see if it would stick. consensus projections are still in the 2.2 - 2.9% range but with more caution than a week ago. and regardless of which first quarter or annual forecast for 2018 you want to hang your hat on, so far it’s certainly nowhere near your stated range of 4-5% and even further away from your now specific 5.4% that seems to have magically replaced the previous range.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  50. #350

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    Hey, I only am repeating what I saw in the news. Serves me right, I suppose.

  51. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Hey, I only am repeating what I saw in the news. Serves me right, I suppose.
    Where did you hear this, FOX and Friends?
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  52. #352

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Stock Market still crashing

    Market summary > Dow Jones Industrial Average

    Feb. 9, 1:35 p.m. EST
    23,424.20 Price decrease
    Down 436.26 Points (-1.83%) just today!


    It was at 26,616 on Jan 26th
    DOWN 3,192 POINTS!
    Down over 13%

    Wipes out all gains made over past 3 months!

    May lead to Trump's 5th bankruptcy. The US Economy!

    Soooo much winning!

    See what happens when you try to stimulate an already hot (Obama) economy.
    ? the dow jones is up over 23% of its entire life since Trump took office up 4458 points in a little over a year, stock market Crash did you fail math ?
    Last edited by Creativemind; 12-02-2018 at 12:41 AM.

  53. #353

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    Trump took credit when it was going up, now it is going down. The previous President had a much better stock market performance in his first year and the Republicans called him a failure.

    What part of the double standard don't you understand?

    Obama had the best stock market performance since FDR. When he took office, he inherited an economy in free fall, dropping 18% in the 6 weeks after inauguration. By the end of his first year, he regained the 18% and added another 25 percent. (a 52% recovery) Stellar performance and he pulled the US out of the Great Recession with excellent policies and a strong cabinet that had to fight the obstructionist Republicans every step of the way. The Republicans even blocked votes on bills that were based upon Republican idea and policy.

    President Donald Trump and former President Barack Obama may seem very different -- but when it comes to the performance of their stock markets, they could hardly be more similar.

    The stock market has climbed 25.6% since Trump took office through the market's close on Tuesday. At the same point in Obama's term, the market had climbed by a virtually identical 25.8%. Of course, Obama's bull market came after the market bottomed out of the Great Recession. Trump's has built on what was already a strong economy. (meanwhile Trump lied that he inherited a mess)
    It's been a rollercoaster last few days for the Dow Jones Industrial Average, tumbling more than 2,000 points since the start of the month before rebounding slightly on Tuesday.
    The abrupt nosedive unraveled most of the market's gains since the beginning of the calendar year. Trump has repeatedly touted the stock market's gains during his term.

    See the interactive graph showing the history of the DOW Jones with the past 100+ years of Presidents.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/06/polit...ate/index.html
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-02-2018 at 06:07 AM.
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  54. #354

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Trump took credit when it was going up, now it is going down. The previous President had a much better stock market performance in his first year and the Republicans called him a failure.

    What part of the double standard don't you understand?

    Obama had the best stock market performance since FDR. When he took office, he inherited an economy in free fall, dropping 18% in the 6 weeks after inauguration. By the end of his first year, he regained the 18% and added another 25 percent. (a 52% recovery) Stellar performance and he pulled the US out of the Great Recession with excellent policies and a strong cabinet that had to fight the obstructionist Republicans every step of the way. The Republicans even blocked votes on bills that were based upon Republican idea and policy.

    President Donald Trump and former President Barack Obama may seem very different -- but when it comes to the performance of their stock markets, they could hardly be more similar.

    The stock market has climbed 25.6% since Trump took office through the market's close on Tuesday. At the same point in Obama's term, the market had climbed by a virtually identical 25.8%. Of course, Obama's bull market came after the market bottomed out of the Great Recession. Trump's has built on what was already a strong economy. (meanwhile Trump lied that he inherited a mess)
    It's been a rollercoaster last few days for the Dow Jones Industrial Average, tumbling more than 2,000 points since the start of the month before rebounding slightly on Tuesday.
    The abrupt nosedive unraveled most of the market's gains since the beginning of the calendar year. Trump has repeatedly touted the stock market's gains during his term.

    See the interactive graph showing the history of the DOW Jones with the past 100+ years of Presidents.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/06/polit...ate/index.html
    So Democrats think Obama should get credit for the rise under Trump but it falling is all Trump ... typical Fact is it's hit all record highs under Trump give credit when it's deserved it's just makes the left look stupid and why Trump was elected in the 1st place , people see the blatant hypocrisy that goes on and only builds the republicans stronger.

  55. #355

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^Really

    The wretched right doesn't like this graph. It blows there minds. "What the stock market existed before Trump came in to power... hurrrrr"

  56. #356

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    ^^Fact; ALL Presidents inherit issues, good and bad from their predecessors. Why would Trump be any different? He cannot say on day one after inauguration that every gain was his when he had not even passes one major bill for a year.



    The market takes time to react.

    Obama inherited the failing policies of Bush. Obama took the heat for months and turned things around to the positive.

    Trump inherited the rising stock market and full employment from Obama. Now the stock market is falling.
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  57. #357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^Really

    The wretched right doesn't like this graph. It blows there minds. "What the stock market existed before Trump came in to power... hurrrrr"
    You do realise that Obama gave 85 billion a month to the banks for 4 straight years at a cost of 4 trillion dollars as a handout so they could play the markets. It was called Obamas 4 trillion dollar gift which accounts for 20% of the entire US deficit . So your graph is distorted! And the facts are Obama did see a rise after a total collapse he was given credit for it although he pumped 4 trillion into it it did help at the cost of American debt to every citizen . It had some good spins people were able to refinance their loans and houses at a lot lower interest rate also stimulated the economy in other ways , So the market under Trump has done even better without the gifts so maybe he deserves some as well . And the wretched right lol is about as immature argument you can have . The left need to learn how to rationalise without emotions and look at facts.

  58. #358

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    go a little further - why did Obama give that handout? I think your answer will be interesting.

  59. #359

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    go a little further - why did Obama give that handout? I think your answer will be interesting.
    To keep lower interest rates and help stop the bleeding of house foreclosures as well as small businesses the economy was taking to long to respond , food stamps were rising to all time levels . Like I said it had it pro' s and cons like most things government implements . And all things come at a cost

  60. #360

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    You may have forgot, TOO BIG TO FAIL...

    Did you want Chrysler, GM, Freedie Mac, Fannie Mae and several of the big banks to fail?

    I don't like the bitter pill that we had to take but not doing the bailout would have wrecked the economy. Now with the economy roaring , Trump does something increadibly stupid. He throws gasoline on a heated economy which raises the rate of inflation and the tax cuts are already raising the debt with little benefit to show for it. Trump is the type that can drive a profitable casino out of business. Now he is running up the det like never before and the stock market is reacting to his insane corporate bailout when none was needed.

    Think harder Creativemind.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-02-2018 at 08:26 AM.
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  61. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creativemind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    go a little further - why did Obama give that handout? I think your answer will be interesting.
    To keep lower interest rates and help stop the bleeding of house foreclosures as well as small businesses the economy was taking to long to respond , food stamps were rising to all time levels . Like I said it had it pro' s and cons like most things government implements . And all things come at a cost
    ok great, so Obama pretty much had to give those handouts to stop the big banks for failing, which you related to the rise of the stock market for Obama's two terms. Now... Trump's been in power for just about a year, but the right has been claiming the stock market has been rising due to him since he was elected and before he even came in to power. What did Trump do to attribute that rise to him ??

  62. #362

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Creativemind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    go a little further - why did Obama give that handout? I think your answer will be interesting.
    To keep lower interest rates and help stop the bleeding of house foreclosures as well as small businesses the economy was taking to long to respond , food stamps were rising to all time levels . Like I said it had it pro' s and cons like most things government implements . And all things come at a cost
    ok great, so Obama pretty much had to give those handouts to stop the big banks for failing, which you related to the rise of the stock market for Obama's two terms. Now... Trump's been in power for just about a year, but the right has been claiming the stock market has been rising due to him since he was elected and before he even came in to power. What did Trump do to attribute that rise to him ??
    Wow such a weak argument The banks were not failing the money was a gift Bush had already bailed them out , And I am going to laugh pretty soon since my career is in finance . Now take a good look at your graph You will notice two really big drops bigger in percentage than the drop this year what spurred those ? I will tell you talks of interest rates rising even after a major collapse the Dow did not recover to it's level till Obama's 2nd term and after pumping Trillions into markets the market cap has risen more under Trump without the gifts. The economy is stronger and consumer confidence is higher under Trump than anytime under Obama Unemployment as well plus a huge reduction of people under food stamps in one year. Now the left was yelling from the roof tops if Trump won the Markets would collapse instantly and the whole world economy would collapse , I have never in my life seen a political side be so wrong on so many accounts . Even the Russian collusion is all now pointing at Democrats not Trump

  63. #363

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You may have forgot, TOO BIG TO FAIL...

    Did you want Chrysler, GM, Freedie Mac, Fannie Mae and several of the big banks to fail?

    I don't like the bitter pill that we had to take but not doing the bailout would have wrecked the economy. Now with the economy roaring , Trump does something increadibly stupid. He throws gasoline on a heated economy which raises the rate of inflation and the tax cuts are already raising the debt with little benefit to show for it. Trump is the type that can drive a profitable casino out of business. Now he is running up the det like never before and the stock market is reacting to his insane corporate bailout when none was needed.

    Think harder Creativemind.
    The bailouts were already done under Bush not Obama lol remember congressman stating they felt pressured to approve the bailout because Bush had the flipping military there . Bush and Obama will be known as 2 of the most corrupt presidents of all time and Clinton the sleaziest . The jury still out on Trump if he rids the leeches and suckers who have ripped of the public for years out of there he will go down as a good one. Just Like Stelmach and Redford destroyed a once good government and now we have the worst one yet imo. I don't care about left or right I care about who is there for the good of the people that's it

  64. #364

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    sources on your allegations? I've seen lots of sources posted in this thread which disagree with just about everything you've said in the last two posts... and please, spare us laughing at foxnews, cnn, etc.

  65. #365

  66. #366

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    Bush threats of martial law if bailout not approved

  67. #367

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    I am anything but a Trump supporter but Creativemind actually quite accurately describes the current financial situation and the risk that the economy now faces. The main reason for the run-up in equities since the financial crisis was The Fed's massive and unprecedented amount of purchases of fixed-income securities from the US Treasury and banks. This has kept yields (i.e. interest rates) low and masked some serious fundamental weaknesses in the economy.

    The problem with this approach is that The Fed actually has no money. They financed their massive purchases by simply printing more money:
    almost as much money has been created in the last 10 years as in the previous 50 years.


    (Source: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M...ign=categories)

    This means that rising prices are now inevitable because an increase in money supply is the underlying cause of inflation. The inflation genie is out of the bottle; there's really nothing that can be done now to stop it. Eventually this will start to show itself in consumer prices. At the same time The Fed is finally starting to reduce its balance sheet while the Treasury will have to continue to issue vast amounts of debt: bonds will thus tank and yields will spike. Interest rates will then go up because of the double whammy of inflation and rising yields. Corporations will be forced to service their record amounts of debt for the first time instead of keeping their share prices artificially high by paying dividends and buying back stock so equities will collapse. Meanwhile consumers will for the first time in a generation will be faced with both rising prices and rising interest rates; they will also be unable to service their debts. Banks that are historically over-leveraged on their derivatives based on both corporate and consumer debt will then be at risk.

    Everything is about to unwind: it will be a financial meltdown of epic proportions, probably exceeding the chaos of 2008, and as usual it will be innocent people that suffer the most. And its going to happen under the watch of a historically incompetent and chaotic administration led by a narcissistic and inept president. Trump is extraordinarily unqualified to be able to manage this situation but, in his defense, the situation was not of his making (although the tax cut package will make it worse).

  68. #368

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Hey, I only am repeating what I saw in the news. Serves me right, I suppose.
    Where did you hear this, FOX and Friends?
    It was reported by NBC News (I posted it on February 1st on the previous page in this thread)

  69. #369

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    There you go. We'll just take some money from Medicare, Medicade and Social Security and the tax cuts are all paid for. Easy peasy.

    That $1,000 one time bonus isn't going to go nearly as far as you thought it would, will it?

    Trump proposes cutting entitlements by $1.7 trillion — enough to pay for $1.5 trillion in tax cuts: report

    Bloomberg editor Alex Wayne reported on Monday that his publication had received confirmation that “Trump’s fiscal 2019 budget proposes $1.7 trillion in entitlement cuts over a decade.”


    Wayne noted that $237 billion in Medicare cuts are included in the plan.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/tru...x-cuts-report/

  70. #370

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    That did not take long. Give the taxpayers a dime and give the top 1% a $100 bill and the corporations a a $1000 bill

    Then a couple of months later, take away the meager benefits from the 99%.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  71. #371
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
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    I don't even know anymore :/
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    1,183

    Default

    Starve the beast in action.

    "Hey look, we took away these programs money and now they don't work. But it's clearly because the programs suck, not because they have no money!"

  72. #372

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    Dow has been steadily climbing is back up above 25,200. Almost back to where it was one month ago.

  73. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Dow has been steadily climbing is back up above 25,200. Almost back to where it was one month ago.
    The DOW. Hmm.

    How about now?

    The day after Trump got elected I posted to a financial stight that it was an opportunity of a lifetime to buy stocks. (I barely changed my high cash position because I don’t invest according to who’s in Power, but it did seem like an obvious win for the markets.) I would guess that many Trump fans did buy heavily into the US market and did very well as a result. I would expect that those fans are itching to buy more now with every drop in the market because of their belief/faith that Trump will make America great again. (For reasons now out of my control I’ve now significantly joined the masses and have to hope so, and have that faith, as well. And as a ultra-conservative person, financially, this REALLY ticks me off.)


    U.S. stock market cheerleader-in-chief goes quiet in downturn - The Globe and Mail

    “The frequency of Trump's tweets touting the stock market upswing increased towards the second half of 2017 as the S&P 500, a broad index of U.S. stock prices, hit a series of record highs. The index ended the year up nearly 20 per cent, its best annual performance since 2012.

    But after a violent selloff - prompted by fears of U.S. inflation - wiped over $4 trillion in global stock market capitalization earlier this year, the president's Twitter feed has gone quiet on the subject: the second-longest spell without a tweet about the market since his election.”


    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ticle38342544/
    Last edited by KC; 24-03-2018 at 06:35 AM.

  74. #374

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    MrOilers has also gone 'mysteriously' silent.

  75. #375

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    Strange that. Especially since we are not tired of all the 'winning' accomplishments of Trump that we can count on one hand.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  76. #376

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    China bends the knee to Trump's demands, and markets are skyrocketing this morning.


    Wall Street Surges as Trade War Fears Cool


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1H21GD

  77. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    China bends the knee to Trump's demands, and markets are skyrocketing this morning.


    Wall Street Surges as Trade War Fears Cool


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1H21GD
    And the DOW crashes back down to where it was on monday morning. 23,857 Lowest point since November
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-03-2018 at 03:08 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  78. #378

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    [quote]

    Better living through borrowing...



    Opinions
    A debt crisis is on the horizon


    By Michael J. Boskin, John H. Cochrane, John F. Cogan, George P. Shultz and John B. Taylor
    March 27

    The writers are senior fellows and economists at the Hoover Institution.



    “...
    President Trump’s recently released budget is a wake-up call. It projects that this year, a year of relatively strong economic growth, low unemployment and continued historically low interest rates, the deficit will reach $870 billion, 30 percent greater than last year.

    For years, economists have warned of major increases in future public debt burdens. That future is on our doorstep. From this point forward, even if economic growth continues uninterrupted, current tax and spending patterns imply that annual deficits will steadily increase, approaching the $1 trillion mark in two years and steadily rising thereafter as far as the eye can see.

    Unless Congress acts to reduce federal budget deficits, the outstanding public debt will reach $20 trillion a scant five years from now, up from its current level of $15 trillion. That amounts to almost a quarter of million dollars for a family of four, more than twice the median household wealth.

    This string of perpetually rising trillion-dollar-plus deficits is unprecedented in U.S. history.

    In recent months, we have seen an inevitable rise in interest rates from their low levels of recent years. Rising interest rates and increasing deficits threaten to build upon each other to send public debt spiraling upward even faster. When treasury debt holders ...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.fe7d29b6def9



  79. #379

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    Nothing to worry about. Trump promised that he'd wipe out the debt, not just the deficit, in just a few years.

    Trump’s nonsensical claim he can eliminate $19 trillion in debt in eight years

    Donald Trump: “We’ve got to get rid of the $19 trillion in debt.”


    Bob Woodward: “How long would that take?”


    Trump: “I think I could do it fairly quickly, because of the fact the numbers…”


    Woodward: “What’s fairly quickly?”


    Trump: “Well, I would say over a period of eight years.

    (Update: After this fact check appeared, an advisor to Trump claimed that the candidate could easily meet his pledge by selling “$16 trillion” of national assets. The assets of the United States are valued at about $3.2 trillion, not counting heritage assets such as national parks, forests, museums, monuments and land used by the military. Those assets are not valued, the Government Accountability Office says: “Like stewardship land, the government does not expect to use these assets to meet its obligations.” Moreover, the laws governing their use and management would need to be changed before anyone could contemplate selling off Yosemite National Park and other landmarks to the highest bidder.)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8007c164bb37

  80. #380

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    And many Republicans and Tea Party leaning conservative 's took a vow to never support any budget or policies that increased the deficit. Did they break their vows like Trump does as soon as he sees the next skirt go by?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  81. #381

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    Dow down nearly 500 points, 2%. And the trade war with China is just heating up.

    Dow drops 500 points as Amazon tumbles, trade war fears rise

    Trade war fears and a presidential attack on Amazon are rocking Wall Street.
    The Dow dropped more than 500 points and the Nasdaq plunged about 3% on Monday. All three major indexes are now in the red for the year.

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/02/inve...zon/index.html

  82. #382

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    Don't worry, Trump and his advisors (formerly of Goldman Sachs) has a plan!

    Run America into the ground, declare bankruptcy and then make a deal with the US government to bail them out because they are 'too big to fail'.

    ...no, wait...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  83. #383

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    Down 622 points and falling.

    Tell me more about all this winning.



    You are right!

    We are sick and tired that you won. Please go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  84. #384

  85. #385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Dow down nearly 500 points, 2%. And the trade war with China is just heating up.

    Dow drops 500 points as Amazon tumbles, trade war fears rise

    Trade war fears and a presidential attack on Amazon are rocking Wall Street.
    The Dow dropped more than 500 points and the Nasdaq plunged about 3% on Monday. All three major indexes are now in the red for the year.

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/02/inve...zon/index.html

    He is going after Amazon now because they basically use the US postal service to subsidize themselves, harming smaller retailers.

    This is exactly what Bernie Sanders wanted to do as well.

  86. #386

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post

    He is going after Amazon now because they basically use the US postal service to subsidize themselves, harming smaller retailers.

    This is exactly what Bernie Sanders wanted to do as well.
    He's going after Amazon because it's owned by Bezos who owns the Washington Post & all he's got is his easily disproved statement about the USPS taking a loss.

    Bezos is a real, self-made billionaire & the type of successful, savvy businessman like the character DJT played on TV & it eats Donnie Moscow up on the inside.
    Last edited by noodle; 02-04-2018 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Corrected brain fart, thanks Mr O!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  87. #387

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    Bezos owns the Washington Post, and Amazon does hundreds of millions of dollars worth of business with the CIA

  88. #388

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    My bad, wasn't paying full attention, you're correct. WSJ is a Murdoch property.

    As to Amazon & the CIA, of course they do. Amazon currently controls about a third of the cloud computing market, more than IBM, Microsoft & Google combined. AWS powers a huge chunk of the internet, hence their $17B in revenue last year.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  89. #389

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    Technology Shares Plunge Again Amid Growing Backlash:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/technol...ash-1522689491


    This is great news as far as I am concerned. It looks good on Facebook and other companies doing creepy things to us.

  90. #390

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Technology Shares Plunge Again Amid Growing Backlash:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/technol...ash-1522689491


    This is great news as far as I am concerned. It looks good on Facebook and other companies doing creepy things to us.
    Yes it’s good to see some penalty for serving as data sources and conduits for companies like Cambridge Analytics. Similar to Facebook being used by foreign nations to distribute their “fake news”. It’s going to be an ongoing battle.

  91. #391

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    The package side of the USPS is actually profitable. They cannot, by law, enter into a contract where they lose money. Amazon does qualify for bulk rates but they also have to follow certain rules in order to get that. Items must be presorted, they must be certain standard sizes, they must have a machine readable barcode are some examples.

    The single biggest problem the USPS faces is that they are forced by law to fully fund their pension obligations for 75 years, something that no other business or governmental entity is required to do.

  92. #392

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    Yeah, bet they're regretting their vote for Trump now.

    Illinois farmer on Chinese tariffs: ‘Our worst fears seem to be coming true’

    "Brian Duncan, an Illinois hog farmer, had hoped the tough trade talk in recent weeks between President Donald Trump and China amounted to saber-rattling.


    On Monday, he discovered otherwise, when the Chinese government imposed tariffs on 128 U.S. products, including pork and various fruits, in retaliation for Trump's previously announced tariffs on steel and aluminum.


    "We were hoping it was just brinkmanship and cooler heads would prevail. But instead, some of our worst fears seem to be coming true," said Duncan, who's also vice president of the Illinois Farm Bureau. "This is significant, real and serious for rural America."

    ---

    Beyond the Chinese tariffs, Duncan said he's concerned about the fate of the North American Free Trade Agreement, which Trump has vowed to renegotiate. He said he would rather see the Trump administration try to improve trade with China and other countries with more dialogue and working through the World Trade Organization.


    "We seem to have a 'ready-fire-aim' approach that's more disruptive," Duncan said.

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/ill...m-coming-true/

  93. #393
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Default

    Well, this is what you get with a ***** at the helm. Smooth move by China to smack Trump right in his voter base.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  94. #394

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    And Trump just upped the ante.

    Trump administration targets $50 billion in Chinese electronics, aerospace and machinery goods with tariffs

    The Trump administration Tuesday unveiled a list of roughly $50 billion in Chinese electronics, aerospace and machinery products it plans to hit with steep tariffs, the latest move in a deepening U.S.-China trade conflict.


    The new 25 percent import taxes are designed to penalize China for discriminatory policies that the United States says puts its companies at a disadvantage in the Chinese market. President Trump has complained that the Chinese government forces U.S. companies to surrender their proprietary technology in return for access to local customers and steals other trade secrets via cyber theft.


    Trump’s latest protectionist move threatens to upend global supply chains for corporations such as Apple and Dell, raise prices for American consumers who have grown accustomed to inexpensive electronics and aggravate tensions between the world’s two largest economies.

    ---

    U.S. farm groups are especially worried about being caught in the crossfire. China’s response to Trump’s steel and aluminum tariffs landed hardest on the agricultural sector, including products such fruit, wine and pork.


    Future Chinese action is likely to hit the farm belt even harder. The U.S. exported $12.4 billion worth of soybeans to China last year, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, down almost 13 percent from the year earlier, as Chinese buyers began turning to alternative suppliers like Brazil.


    In Evansville, Indiana, Joe Steinkamp, 52, raises soybeans and white corn on a 40-acre plot his family has farmed for 100 years. He exports about one-third of his soybean crop to China, so if the Chinese shun American suppliers, he risks losing around $170,000 in annual income.


    “We’re all about trade with China. We spent the last 25 years building that trade relationship,” said Steinkamp. “I appreciate the president looking out for our entire country. We just don’t want soybeans to be the fall guy and take all the punches from the Chinese.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.118ebdccf4a6

  95. #395

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    Well Mr. ******** President, you just started a trade war. Everyone loses, especially the consumer and the people who can least afford it.

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  96. #396

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    And China responds. The speed at which they did this makes it clear that they've got their next moves mapped out well in advance and can match Trump beat for beat.

    China reciprocates with new tariffs on U.S. products worth $50B
    Products include soybeans, autos, chemicals and some aircraft


    China has raised tariffs on $50 billion US of American goods including soybeans, aircraft and automobiles in response to Washington's increased duties on Chinese goods in a technology dispute.


    The Commerce Ministry on Wednesday criticized the U.S. move as a violation of global trade rules and said China was acting to protect its "legitimate rights and interests."


    It said a 25 per cent tariff would be imposed and the date the charges will take effect would be announced later.


    Extra tariffs will also be slapped on products such as whisky, cigars and tobacco, some types of beef, lubricants, and propane and other plastic products, the finance ministry said in its statement.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/chin...hike-1.4604182

  97. #397

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    Maybe Canada will benefit from massive dumping from both sides.

  98. #398

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    I can't believe how Trump can make all these policy decisions unilaterally bypassing Congress using an obscure rule. The Republicans know he is unhinged and lies constantly yet the do nothing to control the man child who thinks he is the Emperor of the United States.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  99. #399

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    Defacto

  100. #400
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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