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Thread: BC NDP and Greens form coalition gov't. What does that mean for Alberta?

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    Default BC NDP and Greens form coalition gov't. What does that mean for Alberta?

    Global's take.

    So, the Greens and thr NDP are combining to form government in BC. The first media topic is Kinder Morgan. That brings up relations with Alberta.

    Thoughts?
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    The Greens and NDP may both be left of centre but they really don't like one another. The joy of personalities. And first crack at governing is Clark. The Greens have also stated they will vote independently so the Liberals if they give some gifts may stay in power a while. For Kinder Morgan it's a federal approval and done. If BC decides to be a bad player, politics is a blood sport and the back room dealing will likely get ugly. BC will eventually lose. And lose credibility. My opinion
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    I can't see it lasting. The greens want user fees, tolls, they really want to make it more expensive than it is to live in BC. The NDP want to hand out freebies, at least that's what Horgan said. I have friends in BC that voted green, rather than vote for the NDP. They aren't sure how they feel with them holding the balance of power with only 3 seats.

    I thought Clarke did well for BC, I would have voted for her again,but on another forum, they thought she was too close to the feds .Interesting times, let's see how Notley works with them over KM, we know it will be tied up in court, dozens of FN groups will fly in to support other eco terrorists.
    Last edited by H.L.; 30-05-2017 at 01:22 PM.

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    It will all come unraveled when nobody is able to stop the Trans Mountain Expansion on the provincial level. Trudeau has some serious bills to pay, and more to gain in the BC Interior, Alberta and Saskatchewan than to loose in the lower mainland.

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    If there was a re-election with Trans Mountain shovels in the ground, I can't see the Greens loosing any seats, but I think we will see a bunch of NDP seats flip back to Liberals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    It will all come unraveled when nobody is able to stop the Trans Mountain Expansion on the provincial level. Trudeau has some serious bills to pay, and more to gain in the BC Interior, Alberta and Saskatchewan than to loose in the lower mainland.
    Maybe not stop it, but I'm betting it will be held up..

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    Trans mountain pipeline = done deal
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Trans mountain pipeline = done deal
    I hope so, I'm just wondering when the sit ins start, how will they be removed. Will physical force be used?

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    Trudeau announced that the change in government won't derail the project. I expect the opposition will be fierce, but it'll be built. The momentary concern is the financing - stocks fell with the new government. They'll get the funding though.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    We'll see, I think if Clarke decides to let the NDP/Greens lead, it's in trouble. Regardless of what JT says.jmho

    http://www.vancouversun.com/business...588/story.html
    Last edited by H.L.; 30-05-2017 at 02:30 PM.

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    NDP/Greens just making noises to get noticed. The Feds should state right of the bat that anyone getting in the way of the pipeline expansion will be dealt with double quick. Either heavily fined, jail time or both.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    I tend to agree with Global's take. Coalition governments fail quickly. a one issue coalition will fail even faster IMO.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    NDP/Greens just making noises to get noticed. The Feds should state right of the bat that anyone getting in the way of the pipeline expansion will be dealt with double quick. Either heavily fined, jail time or both.

    The greens were reading off their rights as a province, and of course the rights of aboriginals.

    Trudeau said.....governments grant permits, communities grant permission"

    His own words will come back to bite him!







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    Interesting, innit: a Trudeau who has explicitly sided with Alberta's economic interests against the populist feeling in another province.

    Will the stomach-churning right-wing scum-bags give him any credit at all for this?

    Good god, what a stupid question I just asked.

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    A one seat majority when the NDP and Green seats are combined. Has there ever been a more fragile minority government in Canadian electoral history?

    Before the BC Legislature begins sitting a speaker is elected by secret ballot from among the MLAs of all parties. The speaker only votes in the case of a tie which almost never happens. Will be interesting to watch political developments in Lotus Land over the next little while.

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    They cant stop it but can do a lot to fight it in court.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...p-b-c-politics

    Even though the anti-pipeline politicians in B.C. cannot legally stop the pipeline unilaterally, they can put up all kinds of obstacles, such as refusing construction permits or reversing the environmental assessment awarded to the project last January.
    On Tuesday, Green Leader Andrew Weaver alluded to Section 35 of the Constitution dealing with aboriginal rights as a way to fight the pipeline.

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    Get the bulldozers and armed forces on standby during construction
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

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    This could get very ugly...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Interesting, innit: a Trudeau who has explicitly sided with Alberta's economic interests against the populist feeling in another province.

    Will the stomach-churning right-wing scum-bags give him any credit at all for this?

    Good god, what a stupid question I just asked.
    When you use words like scum bag, what do you expect? Scum bag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trick91 View Post
    They cant stop it but can do a lot to fight it in court.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...p-b-c-politics

    Even though the anti-pipeline politicians in B.C. cannot legally stop the pipeline unilaterally, they can put up all kinds of obstacles, such as refusing construction permits or reversing the environmental assessment awarded to the project last January.
    On Tuesday, Green Leader Andrew Weaver alluded to Section 35 of the Constitution dealing with aboriginal rights as a way to fight the pipeline.

    Another have not province, soon.

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    My guess is the BC government will last 6-18 months. Not sure how long a 44 seat coalition vs a 43 seat opposition can last, unless they negotiate everything that could be a confidence vote beforehand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    It will all come unraveled when nobody is able to stop the Trans Mountain Expansion on the provincial level. Trudeau has some serious bills to pay, and more to gain in the BC Interior, Alberta and Saskatchewan than to loose in the lower mainland.
    Would have to disagree. ..the pro pipeline group won't vote for JT regardless and with stabbing his base , the left, environmentalists he's going be lucky to keep power . Combine the fact that Notely's at war with Saskatewan ( Brad Wall ) , , now B.C , plus all Albertan's with her carbon tax scam ....There's just too much fighting.

    Now remember it was a Liberal minister that threaten military force should the people protest the line....it's just to ugly of an environment.

    I see a lot of protectionism, fighting and both leaders will fall. ...possibly to an NDP government .

  24. #24

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    The opponents of the pipeline(s) running through B C have been running rough shot for too long. If these pipelines have approval from all levels in regards to route, safety, environmental, monetary gains etc. people who stand in the way should be charged with obstruction. Anyone causing havoc or vandalism of these pipelines should be arrested. If Tweedledum and Tweedledee of the new NDP/Green coalition in B C want to start holding things up they should be swiftly told by the feds that it's in the national interest and to button it.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    The only people who need this pipeline are petroleum-stockholders and the Alberta roughnecks who have been brainwashed into thinking there's nothing they can do except rape the resources.

    Just as Edmonton would be a better city without the Oilers, Alberta would be a better province without oil exports.

    In truth, no one really needs our sludge anyway.

    But all the oil drinkers out there need not worry. The Oilers won't move, and the oil will flow.

    Your kvetching is just insecure panic because you don't have the guts to be really confident in yourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    My guess is the BC government will last 6-18 months. Not sure how long a 44 seat coalition vs a 43 seat opposition can last, unless they negotiate everything that could be a confidence vote beforehand.
    They had better make sure everyone is there for a vote, don't be ill, don't go to the washroom. I doubt it will last 18 months.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The opponents of the pipeline(s) running through B C have been running rough shot for too long. If these pipelines have approval from all levels in regards to route, safety, environmental, monetary gains etc. people who stand in the way should be charged with obstruction. Anyone causing havoc or vandalism of these pipelines should be arrested. If Tweedledum and Tweedledee of the new NDP/Green coalition in B C want to start holding things up they should be swiftly told by the feds that it's in the national interest and to button it.
    Hate to break this to you but , as Canadians we are afforded certain basic rights and freedoms , by constitution . Superceding some federal nimrod and, it's agency's

    It's going be a long long long fight.
    Last edited by champking; 31-05-2017 at 08:41 PM.

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    What is being proposed is the twinning of an existing pipeline along a ROW located in close proximity to an existing highway corridor to the West Coast with the terminus being Canada's busiest port located in its third largest metropolis. Hardly a pristine wilderness.

    The existing pipeline supplies oil to refineries in Kamloops and Burnaby to serve BC residents as well as refineries in Washington State. In addition to shipping crude oil to tankers that have safely traversed Burrard Inlet with zero spills since 1956, the existing Westridge Marine Terminal also delivers jet fuel by pipeline to Vancouver International Airport.

    Details of product destination of the existing pipeline here: https://www.transmountain.com/product-destination

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    The only people who need this pipeline are petroleum-stockholders and the Alberta roughnecks who have been brainwashed into thinking there's nothing they can do except rape the resources.

    Just as Edmonton would be a better city without the Oilers, Alberta would be a better province without oil exports.

    In truth, no one really needs our sludge anyway.

    But all the oil drinkers out there need not worry. The Oilers won't move, and the oil will flow.

    Your kvetching is just insecure panic because you don't have the guts to be really confident in yourselves.
    It's being produced anyway, I would rather we get full price by getting it easily to market. But I hope that we resist the temptation to further expand our oil production.

    The bigger it is the more it will hurt when we lose it.
    There can only be one.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    The only people who need this pipeline are petroleum-stockholders and the Alberta roughnecks who have been brainwashed into thinking there's nothing they can do except rape the resources.

    Just as Edmonton would be a better city without the Oilers, Alberta would be a better province without oil exports.

    In truth, no one really needs our sludge anyway.

    But all the oil drinkers out there need not worry. The Oilers won't move, and the oil will flow.

    Your kvetching is just insecure panic because you don't have the guts to be really confident in yourselves.
    Stick this somewhere where you can see it. Maybe make you less of a sour puss.


    “A pessimist is a man who thinks everybody is as nasty as himself, and hates them for it.”
    George Bernard Shaw
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  31. #31

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    The biggest lie out of Alberta and it's oilsands is in the reclamation . They don't have the technology nor the resources to clean that disaster up ( return it to its original state <___that was the deal ). If I were B.C , I would tell Alberta to clean up its own mess before preaching about social license and the environment. Ruin your own province....when the profits dry up , who's clean the mess up ? Much like all the abandon oil wells .

    Maybe they need to call in some of these global bodys , the U.N. Deem it a disaster

    Only need to look at the provinces balance sheets to see this one trick pony's a failure
    Last edited by champking; 31-05-2017 at 09:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    The only people who need this pipeline are petroleum-stockholders and the Alberta roughnecks who have been brainwashed into thinking there's nothing they can do except rape the resources.

    Just as Edmonton would be a better city without the Oilers, Alberta would be a better province without oil exports.

    In truth, no one really needs our sludge anyway.

    But all the oil drinkers out there need not worry. The Oilers won't move, and the oil will flow.

    Your kvetching is just insecure panic because you don't have the guts to be really confident in yourselves.
    Stick this somewhere where you can see it. Maybe make you less of a sour puss.


    A pessimist is a man who thinks everybody is as nasty as himself, and hates them for it.
    George Bernard Shaw
    Like x 10!

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    Great to see the usual suspects going postal at anything outside the narrowest of conventional dogma.

    For the record, here's what I've said -- and meant -- so far in this thread:

    The tar sludge is far too widely acknowledged to be somehow important to this country as a whole, and so the pipes to carry it WILL be built, regardless of anyone's panicked speculation about political failure and constitutional warfare.

    But dependence on the tar sludge is an illusion, a comfortable drug for people to cowardly to imagine anything different.

    We are bound on oil, but that is not our strong point. It is our weakest point, and if we did not have oil as a crutch, we would have a fundamentally stronger, more stable, and ultimately more prosperous economic foundation. Our economy could have been founded on any number of sectors without the endless repetition of excess boom and bust -- not the usual mild recessions and period of growth, but manias alternating every fifteen years with depressions.

    Instead we've had eight decades of increasing drug addiction, and it has made us weak, cowardly, and jittery.

    And you'll howl out with your noise anyone who tells you that you are a pathetic addict. And like any addict you will eventually be better off it you manage to go cold turkey.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 31-05-2017 at 11:45 PM.

  34. #34

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    The sludge moves anyway. Unfortunately sans pipeline it tends to move more by rail, by tanker, and by means that are arguably much more risk averse to the environment. A fact that seems to elude such people as the Mayor of Montreal just using him as a case instance.

    I agree with the premise that the world is too dependent on fossil fuels. But the solutions lie beyond jurisdictional squabbling and negotiating about pipelines under the false visage of greater environmental benevolence.

    BE, A province that was founded on exploiting the environment, that exploits everything in forestry, fishing and that floods massive amounts of arable land and that derives energy from massive damming is damning us about environmental stewardship.

    Its the hypocritical irony that is hard to get over. Hypocrisy that will outlast even pipelines and oil tankers and hazardous freight and that will continue undeterred. If only they could harness all that hot air for energy.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  35. #35

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    ^There are people/groups/businesses along those pipelines. Some are very eager to get it started hoping they can get some business and money from it. Then there are the ones who are going to protest, protest, protest. Their end game is still the same. How much they can leverage in the way of compensation for whatever wrong the pipeline is supposedly going to do. The latter seem to have a lot of time on their hands to protest as most of them don't work.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^There are people/groups/businesses along those pipelines. Some are very eager to get it started hoping they can get some business and money from it. Then there are the ones who are going to protest, protest, protest. Their end game is still the same. How much they can leverage in the way of compensation for whatever wrong the pipeline is supposedly going to do. The latter seem to have a lot of time on their hands to protest as most of them don't work.
    Some of them are paid to protest. Its easy to rent a mob.

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    Rent a Riot, Pay a Protester, Cash for Chaos. Thriving business.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^There are people/groups/businesses along those pipelines. Some are very eager to get it started hoping they can get some business and money from it. Then there are the ones who are going to protest, protest, protest. Their end game is still the same. How much they can leverage in the way of compensation for whatever wrong the pipeline is supposedly going to do. The latter seem to have a lot of time on their hands to protest as most of them don't work.
    Yep, with BC its me first posturing, what I do get, and as this journalist recants has been occurring as long as confederation.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/27...ntal-hypocrisy

    Its striking how little has changed to get BC to play ball and be part of a federation.

    The geographic reality is BC is the western port for the nation, not JUST for BC. If they want in this country, and to contribute to this country then at least service that.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Interesting, innit: a Trudeau who has explicitly sided with Alberta's economic interests against the populist feeling in another province.

    Will the stomach-churning right-wing scum-bags give him any credit at all for this?

    Good god, what a stupid question I just asked.
    I think you already know the answer to that - nope. There is still that crowd here in Alberta that will not vote for him because of his name or his party and it does not matter what he does or doesn't they will still come up with some imagined reason to dislike him.

    If you took a poll in Alberta you would probably find support for the pipeline as strong (or stronger) in Alberta than opposition to it in BC, so "populist feeling" as you refer to it is not just in BC.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The sludge moves anyway. Unfortunately sans pipeline it tends to move more by rail, by tanker, and by means that are arguably much more risk averse to the environment. A fact that seems to elude such people as the Mayor of Montreal just using him as a case instance.

    I agree with the premise that the world is too dependent on fossil fuels. But the solutions lie beyond jurisdictional squabbling and negotiating about pipelines under the false visage of greater environmental benevolence.

    BE, A province that was founded on exploiting the environment, that exploits everything in forestry, fishing and that floods massive amounts of arable land and that derives energy from massive damming is damning us about environmental stewardship.

    Its the hypocritical irony that is hard to get over. Hypocrisy that will outlast even pipelines and oil tankers and hazardous freight and that will continue undeterred. If only they could harness all that hot air for energy.
    The people who seem to be more opposed are those who are closer to the pipeline in the lower mainland, which leads me to believe that all their recent concern about the planet and saving the environment is just a cover for NIMBY.

    Vancouver is chock full of vehicles burning fuel from the Alberta oil sands - yes, Virginia that is where it really comes from. Now if they could run their economy on hot air and hypocrisy, they wouldn't need fuel from Alberta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Interesting, innit: a Trudeau who has explicitly sided with Alberta's economic interests against the populist feeling in another province.

    Will the stomach-churning right-wing scum-bags give him any credit at all for this?

    Good god, what a stupid question I just asked.
    I think you already know the answer to that - nope. There is still that crowd here in Alberta that will not vote for him because of his name or his party and it does not matter what he does or doesn't they will still come up with some imagined reason to dislike him.

    If you took a poll in Alberta you would probably find support for the pipeline as strong (or stronger) in Alberta than opposition to it in BC, so "populist feeling" as you refer to it is not just in BC.


    Trudeau???
    when he sees 'the need' to reduce the 700,000 barrels of oil imported into eastern Canada per day, everyday, then we'll talk, right now he's done nothing but okay a pipeline that will be tied in court for years, and said no to one, because of Quebec..the greedy petulant child of Canada

    http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/as-politicians-gloat-about-climate-leadership-saudi-arabias-oil-is-dumped-in-canada


  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Interesting, innit: a Trudeau who has explicitly sided with Alberta's economic interests against the populist feeling in another province.

    Will the stomach-churning right-wing scum-bags give him any credit at all for this?

    Good god, what a stupid question I just asked.
    I think you already know the answer to that - nope. There is still that crowd here in Alberta that will not vote for him because of his name or his party and it does not matter what he does or doesn't they will still come up with some imagined reason to dislike him.

    If you took a poll in Alberta you would probably find support for the pipeline as strong (or stronger) in Alberta than opposition to it in BC, so "populist feeling" as you refer to it is not just in BC.


    Trudeau???
    when he sees 'the need' to reduce the 700,000 barrels of oil imported into eastern Canada per day, everyday, then we'll talk, right now he's done nothing but okay a pipeline that will be tied in court for years, and said no to one, because of Quebec..the greedy petulant child of Canada

    http://business.financialpost.com/news/energy/as-politicians-gloat-about-climate-leadership-saudi-arabias-oil-is-dumped-in-canada

    will mention also..enforcing these pipelines to the west coast is using a strategic resource to fuel the communists regime of China, who also has a terrible human rights/ environmental record
    Last edited by champking; 03-06-2017 at 11:53 AM.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The sludge moves anyway. Unfortunately sans pipeline it tends to move more by rail, by tanker, and by means that are arguably much more risk averse to the environment. A fact that seems to elude such people as the Mayor of Montreal just using him as a case instance.

    I agree with the premise that the world is too dependent on fossil fuels. But the solutions lie beyond jurisdictional squabbling and negotiating about pipelines under the false visage of greater environmental benevolence.

    BE, A province that was founded on exploiting the environment, that exploits everything in forestry, fishing and that floods massive amounts of arable land and that derives energy from massive damming is damning us about environmental stewardship.

    Its the hypocritical irony that is hard to get over. Hypocrisy that will outlast even pipelines and oil tankers and hazardous freight and that will continue undeterred. If only they could harness all that hot air for energy.
    The people who seem to be more opposed are those who are closer to the pipeline in the lower mainland, which leads me to believe that all their recent concern about the planet and saving the environment is just a cover for NIMBY.

    Vancouver is chock full of vehicles burning fuel from the Alberta oil sands - yes, Virginia that is where it really comes from. Now if they could run their economy on hot air and hypocrisy, they wouldn't need fuel from Alberta.
    Agreed, but its even more tenuous a position for them, or Montreal to have, as we have instances of people living in industrial ports where any resource is shipped in in huge tanker amounts and yet they choose to turn their noses up at pipelines under the supposed protection of environment umbrella while seemingly ignoring all the huge tankers.

    Yet more coastal habitat has been damaged/ruined by Tankers than pipelines and tankers put multi jurisdictions at risk. With tanker spills they can occur anywhere and effect huge areas anywhere. With pipeline usually only the immediate areas are at risk. makes sense to have pipelines near water as mitigated and controlled and monitored as possible though.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The sludge moves anyway. Unfortunately sans pipeline it tends to move more by rail, by tanker, and by means that are arguably much more risk averse to the environment. A fact that seems to elude such people as the Mayor of Montreal just using him as a case instance.

    I agree with the premise that the world is too dependent on fossil fuels. But the solutions lie beyond jurisdictional squabbling and negotiating about pipelines under the false visage of greater environmental benevolence.

    BE, A province that was founded on exploiting the environment, that exploits everything in forestry, fishing and that floods massive amounts of arable land and that derives energy from massive damming is damning us about environmental stewardship.

    Its the hypocritical irony that is hard to get over. Hypocrisy that will outlast even pipelines and oil tankers and hazardous freight and that will continue undeterred. If only they could harness all that hot air for energy.
    The people who seem to be more opposed are those who are closer to the pipeline in the lower mainland, which leads me to believe that all their recent concern about the planet and saving the environment is just a cover for NIMBY.

    Vancouver is chock full of vehicles burning fuel from the Alberta oil sands - yes, Virginia that is where it really comes from. Now if they could run their economy on hot air and hypocrisy, they wouldn't need fuel from Alberta.
    Agreed, but its even more tenuous a position for them, or Montreal to have, as we have instances of people living in industrial ports where any resource is shipped in in huge tanker amounts and yet they choose to turn their noses up at pipelines under the supposed protection of environment umbrella while seemingly ignoring all the huge tankers.

    Yet more coastal habitat has been damaged/ruined by Tankers than pipelines and tankers put multi jurisdictions at risk. With tanker spills they can occur anywhere and effect huge areas anywhere. With pipeline usually only the immediate areas are at risk. makes sense to have pipelines near water as mitigated and controlled and monitored as possible though.
    With more pipelines comes more tanker traffic .

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The sludge moves anyway. Unfortunately sans pipeline it tends to move more by rail, by tanker, and by means that are arguably much more risk averse to the environment. A fact that seems to elude such people as the Mayor of Montreal just using him as a case instance.

    I agree with the premise that the world is too dependent on fossil fuels. But the solutions lie beyond jurisdictional squabbling and negotiating about pipelines under the false visage of greater environmental benevolence.

    BE, A province that was founded on exploiting the environment, that exploits everything in forestry, fishing and that floods massive amounts of arable land and that derives energy from massive damming is damning us about environmental stewardship.

    Its the hypocritical irony that is hard to get over. Hypocrisy that will outlast even pipelines and oil tankers and hazardous freight and that will continue undeterred. If only they could harness all that hot air for energy.
    The people who seem to be more opposed are those who are closer to the pipeline in the lower mainland, which leads me to believe that all their recent concern about the planet and saving the environment is just a cover for NIMBY.

    Vancouver is chock full of vehicles burning fuel from the Alberta oil sands - yes, Virginia that is where it really comes from. Now if they could run their economy on hot air and hypocrisy, they wouldn't need fuel from Alberta.
    Agreed, but its even more tenuous a position for them, or Montreal to have, as we have instances of people living in industrial ports where any resource is shipped in in huge tanker amounts and yet they choose to turn their noses up at pipelines under the supposed protection of environment umbrella while seemingly ignoring all the huge tankers.

    Yet more coastal habitat has been damaged/ruined by Tankers than pipelines and tankers put multi jurisdictions at risk. With tanker spills they can occur anywhere and effect huge areas anywhere. With pipeline usually only the immediate areas are at risk. makes sense to have pipelines near water as mitigated and controlled and monitored as possible though.
    With more pipelines comes more tanker traffic .
    If servicing international markets, yes, if serving domestic markets, or industry no. I specifically mentioned Montreal as the Mayor of Montreal would apparently rather have Oil shipped in tanker from the middle east vs a pipeline from Alberta servicing the same need.

    That's the degree of specious opposition that Alberta tends to face in this confederation.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    The sludge moves anyway. Unfortunately sans pipeline it tends to move more by rail, by tanker, and by means that are arguably much more risk averse to the environment. A fact that seems to elude such people as the Mayor of Montreal just using him as a case instance.

    I agree with the premise that the world is too dependent on fossil fuels. But the solutions lie beyond jurisdictional squabbling and negotiating about pipelines under the false visage of greater environmental benevolence.

    BE, A province that was founded on exploiting the environment, that exploits everything in forestry, fishing and that floods massive amounts of arable land and that derives energy from massive damming is damning us about environmental stewardship.

    Its the hypocritical irony that is hard to get over. Hypocrisy that will outlast even pipelines and oil tankers and hazardous freight and that will continue undeterred. If only they could harness all that hot air for energy.
    The people who seem to be more opposed are those who are closer to the pipeline in the lower mainland, which leads me to believe that all their recent concern about the planet and saving the environment is just a cover for NIMBY.

    Vancouver is chock full of vehicles burning fuel from the Alberta oil sands - yes, Virginia that is where it really comes from. Now if they could run their economy on hot air and hypocrisy, they wouldn't need fuel from Alberta.
    Agreed, but its even more tenuous a position for them, or Montreal to have, as we have instances of people living in industrial ports where any resource is shipped in in huge tanker amounts and yet they choose to turn their noses up at pipelines under the supposed protection of environment umbrella while seemingly ignoring all the huge tankers.

    Yet more coastal habitat has been damaged/ruined by Tankers than pipelines and tankers put multi jurisdictions at risk. With tanker spills they can occur anywhere and effect huge areas anywhere. With pipeline usually only the immediate areas are at risk. makes sense to have pipelines near water as mitigated and controlled and monitored as possible though.
    With more pipelines comes more tanker traffic .
    If servicing international markets, yes, if serving domestic markets, or industry no. I specifically mentioned Montreal as the Mayor of Montreal would apparently rather have Oil shipped in tanker from the middle east vs a pipeline from Alberta servicing the same need.

    That's the degree of specious opposition that Alberta tends to face in this confederation.
    Agreed. I'm in favor of a pipeline to the east coast , opposed to the west coast . At Same time it's being protectionist , putting our own first , using our own oil. That defeats this globalist ideology , ...a hypocrisy at its finest .. for its not o.k to import oil , yet o.k to expand to other markets, expecting them to buy ours
    Last edited by champking; 03-06-2017 at 12:35 PM.

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    Something I was wondering about. Maybe someone in the biz knows more. I was thinking about NE BC and all the oil and gas business around Ft. St. John, Dawson Creek, Ft. Nelson etc. A lot of this product must come via pipeline or other means into Alberta, into Edmonton or other places for distribution. BC collects a lot of royalties in that 1/4 of their province. I was wondering if this was the case or are there pipelines taking this product south through BC. If not, and they stop TransMountain should we stop the flow of their product coming here for distribution whether it be pipeline or other means and hurt their bottom line.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 05-06-2017 at 12:44 AM.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Something I was wondering about. Maybe someone in the biz knows more. I was thinking about NE BC and all the oil and gas business around Ft. St. John, Dawson Creek, Ft. Nelson etc. A lot of this product must come via pipeline or other means into Alberta, into Edmonton or other places for distribution. BC collects a lot of royalties in that 1/4 of their province. I was wondering if this was the case or are there pipelines taking this product south through BC. If not, and they stop TransMountain should we stop the flow of their product coming here for distribution whether it be pipeline or other means and hurt their bottom line.
    A trade war would just hurt everyone and is not the best way to go. I don't think the BC Greens will be a long term part of the government, the numbers are not strong enough for it to last very long.

    I don't think some in BC appreciate how dependent they are on Alberta oil and transportation routes. I think they will eventually realize antagonizing their neighbour is really not a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Something I was wondering about. Maybe someone in the biz knows more. I was thinking about NE BC and all the oil and gas business around Ft. St. John, Dawson Creek, Ft. Nelson etc. A lot of this product must come via pipeline or other means into Alberta, into Edmonton or other places for distribution. BC collects a lot of royalties in that 1/4 of their province. I was wondering if this was the case or are there pipelines taking this product south through BC. If not, and they stop TransMountain should we stop the flow of their product coming here for distribution whether it be pipeline or other means and hurt their bottom line.
    The Spectra Energy natural gas pipeline transports about 55% of NE BC's natural gas south to the Lower Mainland. Enbridge recently acquired Spectra so now owns this pipeline.

    http://www.spectraenergy.com/Operati...ion-Pipelines/

    Spectra's pipeline also ties in to the Alberta pipeline network at Boundary Lake. There is also the separate Alliance pipeline running from Fort St. John through Edmonton which presumably handles the other 45% of BC natural gas.

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?vi...verlay&first=1

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    So now ol' scarecrow is threatening to do exactly what big arse was advocating months ago.

    Reduce the amont of oil exports to BC.

    http://edmontonsun.com/news/politics...9-abd8b3456460


    Top_Dawg absolutely loves it.

    In fact Top_Dawg would love to see them scale back exports just for fun.

    Watch them squeal like piggies.

    You don't like oil you good for phuck all sons of bitches ?

    Mmk.

    No oil for you.

    How you like that you slimy pussy farts.

    Just bring those useless cawk lickers to a standstill.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post

    Just bring those useless cawk lickers to a standstill.
    Someone needs to start a Top Dawg drinking game. One swig of beer every time he posts something about man-on-man sex.

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    Top Dawg is my favorite contributor here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Just bring those useless cawk lickers to a standstill.
    Someone needs to start a Top Dawg drinking game. One swig of beer every time he posts something about man-on-man sex.
    no game required - his posts alone are enough to drive one to drink.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Top Dawg is my favorite contributor here.
    figures...

    now we only need MrCombust to chime in for the trifecta.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Someone needs to start a Top Dawg drinking game. One swig of beer every time he posts something about man-on-man sex.
    I suspect those thoughts dawg him even when he is doing it doggy style.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 09-03-2018 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Dog pun
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    Top_Dawg's posts are probably the most innovative around here on c2e. While they are most edgy then most, they certainly are entertaining.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Top_Dawg's posts are probably the most innovative around here on c2e. While they are most edgy then most, they certainly are entertaining.
    Yes, the constant denigration is truly forward thinking an soooo dawg smart.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  57. #57

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    Post #53 is damn funny. What happened to the like button around here?

  58. #58

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    Say what you will, TD wields crudeness pretty inventively - over the line sometimes to be sure. And the third person schtick is inherently humorous.

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    So to somewhat quote Klein if we let those left coast creeps and bums freeze in the dark this also means we aren't selling oil either and not receiving royalties.
    Regardless something needs to change in Canada and soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    So to somewhat quote Klein if we let those left coast creeps and bums freeze in the dark this also means we aren't selling oil either and not receiving royalties.
    Regardless something needs to change in Canada and soon.
    Just for the historical record, since I know you weren't attributing the whole quote to Klein...

    "Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" was a bumper-sticker from the Energy Wars era. I know it was in use as early as 1980, because I saw it used in an Uluschak cartoon in the Journal, the week of the first Quebec referendum(a guy wearing the slogan on a t-shirt was encouraging Levesque to jump out of a window, symbolizing Alberta's apathy to the possibility of Quebec separation).

    "Creeps and bums" was the phrase Klein used in a speech in '82. He wasn't talking about the energy wars, but about migrant workers who came to Alberta and got into trouble.

    It is amazing how those two phrases have merged together in the public memory, to the point where just a few weeks ago, a columnist at CBC attributed "Let the eastern bastards freeze etc." to Klein.

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    Yeah, King Ralph made the " creeps and bums " remark when he was mayor of Calgary.

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    ^ And many people in Calgary agreed with him. And it was Eastern creeps and bums.

    Wish we had him here instead of who we got now.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Yeah, King Ralph made the " creeps and bums " remark when he was mayor of Calgary.
    True indeed. And it looks like we now have another entry into Alberta's venerable canon of anti-outsider political epithets...

    Alberta minister apologizes for calling B.C. government 'a bunch of shitheads'

  64. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Yeah, King Ralph made the " creeps and bums " remark when he was mayor of Calgary.
    True indeed. And it looks like we now have another entry into Alberta's venerable canon of anti-outsider political epithets...

    Alberta minister apologizes for calling B.C. government 'a bunch of shitheads'
    I am not sure if what he said was any better or worse that Klein's remarks, but that is what happens when a Province feels its economy is threatened. I think it is a sign of growing frustration in Alberta, which the Feds especially would be wise not to ignore or misjudge. Right now most of the anger and frustration in Alberta is directed against BC, but it could easily turn against the rest of Canada if people here start to feel the Feds are part of the problem and not part of the solution. The Premier has already said that retaliation may not only be limited to only BC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post

    I am not sure if what he said was any better or worse that Klein's remarks, but that is what happens when a Province feels its economy is threatened.
    Probably better, 'cuz unlike Klein, he didn't say he was cool with police beating people up, and anyway, the early 80s migrant workers weren't really a serious threat to Alberta's economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Yeah, King Ralph made the " creeps and bums " remark when he was mayor of Calgary.
    True indeed. And it looks like we now have another entry into Alberta's venerable canon of anti-outsider political epithets...

    Alberta minister apologizes for calling B.C. government 'a bunch of shitheads'
    I am not sure if what he said was any better or worse that Klein's remarks, but that is what happens when a Province feels its economy is threatened. I think it is a sign of growing frustration in Alberta, which the Feds especially would be wise not to ignore or misjudge. Right now most of the anger and frustration in Alberta is directed against BC, but it could easily turn against the rest of Canada if people here start to feel the Feds are part of the problem and not part of the solution. The Premier has already said that retaliation may not only be limited to only BC.

    Is it possible to enact legislation where we remit our federal tax to the Alberta treasury and then they transfer the money to the federal government?

    That way they could withhold transfers in times like these and the federal government would have to deal with them in court as opposed to going after individuals.

    It would take some effort to set up but it might be a nice tool to have.

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Yeah, King Ralph made the " creeps and bums " remark when he was mayor of Calgary.
    True indeed. And it looks like we now have another entry into Alberta's venerable canon of anti-outsider political epithets...

    Alberta minister apologizes for calling B.C. government 'a bunch of shitheads'
    I am not sure if what he said was any better or worse that Klein's remarks, but that is what happens when a Province feels its economy is threatened. I think it is a sign of growing frustration in Alberta, which the Feds especially would be wise not to ignore or misjudge. Right now most of the anger and frustration in Alberta is directed against BC, but it could easily turn against the rest of Canada if people here start to feel the Feds are part of the problem and not part of the solution. The Premier has already said that retaliation may not only be limited to only BC.

    Is it possible to enact legislation where we remit our federal tax to the Alberta treasury and then they transfer the money to the federal government?

    That way they could withhold transfers in times like these and the federal government would have to deal with them in court as opposed to going after individuals.

    It would take some effort to set up but it might be a nice tool to have.
    That is an interesting question. I am not a lawyer or a constitutional expert, but from what I know the province can enact legislation, but the Feds can over ride it if they want, so that might be the answer.

  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post

    I am not sure if what he said was any better or worse that Klein's remarks, but that is what happens when a Province feels its economy is threatened.
    Probably better, 'cuz unlike Klein, he didn't say he was cool with police beating people up, and anyway, the early 80s migrant workers weren't really a serious threat to Alberta's economy.
    Good point, the remark was directed at the BC government, not unemployed or down and out immigrants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Probably better, 'cuz unlike Klein, he didn't say he was cool with police beating people up, and anyway, the early 80s migrant workers weren't really a serious threat to Alberta's economy.

    To Top_Dawg's recollection King Ralph made those remarks after Calgary experienced a sudden rise of muggings, personal robberies, and purse snatchings.

    Top_Dawg is not at all averse to having the brown shirts give these perps a few good shots.




    " That's what I call an attention getter. "
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Probably better, 'cuz unlike Klein, he didn't say he was cool with police beating people up, and anyway, the early 80s migrant workers weren't really a serious threat to Alberta's economy.

    To Top_Dawg's recollection King Ralph made those remarks after Calgary experienced a sudden rise of muggings, personal robberies, and purse snatchings.

    Top_Dawg is not at all averse to having the brown shirts give these perps a few good shots.




    " That's what I call an attention getter. "
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    Better than a thug hug!

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ And many people in Calgary agreed with him. And it was Eastern creeps and bums.

    Wish we had him here instead of who we got now.

    Me too!

  72. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Probably better, 'cuz unlike Klein, he didn't say he was cool with police beating people up, and anyway, the early 80s migrant workers weren't really a serious threat to Alberta's economy.

    To Top_Dawg's recollection King Ralph made those remarks after Calgary experienced a sudden rise of muggings, personal robberies, and purse snatchings.

    Top_Dawg is not at all averse to having the brown shirts give these perps a few good shots.




    " That's what I call an attention getter. "
    - Sherriff Buford T. Justice
    Probably a lot of the criminals were locals, but politically its always easier to blame outsiders. I suspect the migrants were more likely to just leave and go home after their jobs ended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Probably better, 'cuz unlike Klein, he didn't say he was cool with police beating people up, and anyway, the early 80s migrant workers weren't really a serious threat to Alberta's economy.

    To Top_Dawg's recollection King Ralph made those remarks after Calgary experienced a sudden rise of muggings, personal robberies, and purse snatchings.

    Top_Dawg is not at all averse to having the brown shirts give these perps a few good shots.




    " That's what I call an attention getter. "
    - Sherriff Buford T. Justice
    no less repulsive a thought even with the " "...

    adding a cute little emoticon doesn't make calling for the presence of sturmabteiliung on our streets as being anywhere close to acceptable regardless of the initial target you seem to think you would be "not at all averse to".

    you never cease to amaze me with your constant efforts to offend while hiding behind the pretense of humour.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Probably a lot of the criminals were locals, but politically its always easier to blame outsiders. I suspect the migrants were more likely to just leave and go home after their jobs ended.
    No, to Top_Dawg's recollection the whole kerfuffle came about shortly after CPS had made some crime stats available.

    Excerpt from one of his speeches:

    "Even if we have to put them all in jail, on top of one another, we have to do it." A speech to the Calgary Newcomers' Club in January, 1982, in which, as mayor of Calgary, he blasted "creeps" and "bums" who moved to Calgary from Eastern Canada "without jobs, without accommodation and without money to take care of themselves."

    And interview with the Globe:

    "Sure I said creeps and bums, but that applied to people anywhere who rob banks and snatch purses and mug senior citizens. It just so happens that most of the robberies here last year were committed by recent arrivals. I never said Easterners were creeps and bums." A February, 1982, interview with The Globe and Mail.

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    Coupla friendly pointers Top Dawg...

    Even as hyperbole, it's not a good rhetorical device to compare cops you like to brown-shirts. The Nazis are the most discreditied political movement in human history, and NOBODY identifies with them anymore(well, except for people who are neo-nazis, literally).

    And given your oft-proclaimed heterosexual tendencies, you might wanna be careful about which Nazis you're lionizing. The SA(aka brown shirts) were not exactly the straightest arrows in the NSDAP, if you get what I mean.

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