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Thread: Trump pulls out of Paris

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    That cartoon perfectly exemplifies the worst attitude we commonly see from the left -

    "Everybody needs to change what they are doing for the better good." but "Me? No, someone else needs to do it. Someone else needs to pay for it. I won't be that example of how to do it. Someone else needs to. Not me, but someone."
    There are plenty of those examples, but they don't get press. There are people living off the grid to reduce their impact, people who live smaller, drive less or don't drive at all to cut their personal emissions, but they're busy growing kale so they don't have time for all the conferences.

    All those personal efforts add up to peanuts, though, if there's not a societal effort supporting it. Humans are selfish and lazy, you'll never have more than a few percent willing to make big changes, especially when they see others taking the easy route.
    There can only be one.

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Humans are selfish and lazy
    I don't think humans are lazy. People are willing to do all kinds of hard work and make sacrifices, but the payoff needs to be worth it to them. I don't think that's really "selfish", either.

  3. #203

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    ^^^Kinda, only several orders of magnitude smaller. He could cut is all and make no detectable difference. Oilsands cumulative output, if you're including the carbon shipped out and burned elsewhere, is a big number but still a percent or two of the world - close the oilsands and the issue isn't close to solved.

    But here's the thing - it won't be solved, ever, if we just expect people to act against their own interest by being the one to cut. I can go off-grid and lose all the conveniences of fossil fuel energy but I get zero benefit from my sacrifice beside earning a little smugness.

    Same applies to you, Al Gore, David Suzuki and CNRL.

    Nobody benefits until a strong majority participates. How does that happen? By getting people to care enough to want somebody to do something, and then with that support governments change the playing field so that everybody does participate.

    Your solution for the 1%ers sounds kinda Commie.
    Last edited by Highlander II; 05-06-2017 at 11:48 AM.
    There can only be one.

  4. #204

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    So in summary:
    Individuals won't fix the problem because their marginal cost to cut emissions is larger than the personal marginal gain from their own cut.

    Government programs like Alberta's carbon tax shift the curve, so that people make different choices. But Alberta's still fairly small, and carbon tax high enough to make a real difference (say $150+/ton) will cost our quality of life if we're the only ones doing it. So it won't get that high unless we see others making similar efforts.

    So we need international effort, preferably Global.
    Oh, but that's apparently bad.
    There can only be one.

  5. #205

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    Turkey admits that without USA's money they are less inclined to ratify their end of the Paris Accord:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-g2...source=twitter


    This supports my point that this agreement was primarily a big global wealth redistribution scheme.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Turkey admits that without USA's money they are less inclined to ratify their end of the Paris Accord:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-g2...source=twitter


    This supports my point that this agreement was primarily a big global wealth redistribution scheme.
    Of course it is, it solves nothing! give us your money..give give give..

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Turkey admits that without USA's money they are less inclined to ratify their end of the Paris Accord:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-g2...source=twitter


    This supports my point that this agreement was primarily a big global wealth redistribution scheme.
    Of course it is, it solves nothing! give us your money..give give give..
    You just know that in 10 or so years Trump will be at the front of the line asking for government money when Mar a Lago starts to flood. Climate change causes sea level rise - who knew?

  8. #208

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    He already is in Ireland

    Trump acknowledges climate change — at his golf course
    The billionaire, who called global warming a hoax, warns of its dire effects in his company's application to build a sea wall.
    By BEN SCHRECKINGER 05/23/2016 05:35 AM EDT


    Earlier this month, after failing to win special approval from the national government for the structure, Trump re-submitted a planning application with the Clare County Council seeking permission to build the wall, which would consist of 200,000 tons of rock distributed along two miles of beach. As part of the application, Trump International Golf Links submitted an environmental impact statement — prepared by an Irish environmental consultancy — which argues that erosion is likely to accelerate as sea levels rise more quickly.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-course-223436

  9. #209

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    [QUOTE=kkozoriz;837034]He already is in Ireland

    Trump acknowledges climate change at his golf course
    The billionaire, who called global warming a hoax, warns of its dire effects in his company's application to build a sea wall.
    By BEN SCHRECKINGER 05/23/2016 05:35 AM EDT


    Earlier this month, after failing to win special approval from the national government for the structure, Trump re-submitted a planning application with the Clare County Council seeking permission to build the wall, which would consist of 200,000 tons of rock distributed along two miles of beach. As part of the application, Trump International Golf Links submitted an environmental impact statement prepared by an Irish environmental consultancy which argues that erosion is likely to accelerate as sea levels rise more quickly.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...-course-223436
    [/QUOTE

    ... but it will be a "beautiful" wall, a great wall, a tremendous wall, that will also keep Mexicans out too.

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