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Thread: Child friendly Edmonton

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    Default Child friendly Edmonton


    https://twitter.com/IanOyeg

    https://www.edmonton.ca/programs_ser...=childfriendly

    The City of Edmonton has a clear vision: to create a vibrant, connected, safe, sustainable and welcoming city.

    A child-friendly city welcomes and involves children and youth and promotes their well-being and safety. It fosters the rights of young people as contributing members of society who have a sense of ownership and a voice in their community.

    Child Friendly Edmonton, in a spirit of cooperation and collaboration, works with citizens, community groups and orders of government to create the best possible results for children and their families.

    The Child Friendly Edmonton Initiative is based on the International UNICEF Child Friendly Cities Initiative. It promotes the implementation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child at the level where it has the greatest direct impact on children’s lives: in the cities where they live.

    The Way We Live: Edmonton's People Plan 10 year strategic plan redefines local government as a caring entity that creates a diverse and inclusive city by connecting people, creating communities where people can age in place and actively nurturing an arts, culture and athletic community.
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    I wonder how many tax dollars were spent on this initiative in terms of outside consultants and city staff when even the basics the city has difficulty in doing
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Food for thought.

    SO many kids Downtown today.
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    https://thewalrus.ca/the-problem-with-kid-free-condos/
    I know developers and builders want to make a profit but there are some things that should not be included/excluded in the profit margins.
    Personally I would hate not having kids around my neighborhood. It's just a breath of fresh air watching them cavorting all over the place, watching them be real serious when they are playing street hockey. Starts of with one putting out the net and before you know it there's 10 of them. If there hollering to loud I close the window, if the ball comes in my yard they have permission to get it back. Remember, kids are not the enemy.
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    I'm fine not seeing kids, I raised mine, look after grandchildren, I don't want them in my condo building.

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    I always think of buildings that are for adults only (especially senior buildings) are Gawds waiting rooms. Most of them are devoid of sound or any personality. Told hubby he might as well shoot me if I had to go into an seniors or adult only building. I would hate all my neighbors to be elderly. Mixed bag of ages just suites me fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I always think of buildings that are for adults only (especially senior buildings) are Gawds waiting rooms. Most of them are devoid of sound or any personality. Told hubby he might as well shoot me if I had to go into an seniors or adult only building. I would hate all my neighbors to be elderly. Mixed bag of ages just suites me fine.
    Ours is lots of fun. We have grandchildren that visit, but on the whole, it's nothing like you envision. I'm willing to go to court to have my say about our condo building, we have rights as well.

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    ^ I don't think you have anything to worry about if your condo is all privately owned units. It's the rental high rise buildings that only rent to adults that are under fire.
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    I hope so, I'm sure we will be next.jmho though...

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    ^^it likely would apply to rental AND condo as it would usurp individual strata bylaws.

    My guess is that we will see them exempt 55+
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^^it likely would apply to rental AND condo as it would usurp individual strata bylaws.

    My guess is that we will see them exempt 55+
    Were in 18+. Great news...��

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    Nothing is confirmed, so who really knows, but my hope/guess is that we will see them remove 18+ but allow 55+.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Nothing is confirmed, so who really knows, but my hope/guess is that we will see them remove 18+ but allow 55+.

    I like it where I am, its the right mix, I don't want( along with others) kids in our building! How bloody unfair we get no choice.!
    Concrete jungles, perfect for kids.(.eye roll.)

    I hope all those eating places you love allow screaming babies!

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    So we don't want to align with best practices across Canada and be more inclusive? The reality is that you will not be flooded with screaming babies and families in your building, perhaps a couple, but it will allow people to REMAIN in their homes, neighbourhoods, communities if and when they decided to have kids.

    Concrete jungles hardly. Urban centres across the world have many children living there just fine thank you very much... time for us to evolve, adapt and become aware of this fact.
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    And Top_Dawg can't help but wonder exactly who are these pi$$ flaps that decide what is and what isn't a best practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    So we don't want to align with best practices across Canada and be more inclusive? The reality is that you will not be flooded with screaming babies and families in your building, perhaps a couple, but it will allow people to REMAIN in their homes, neighbourhoods, communities if and when they decided to have kids.

    Concrete jungles hardly. Urban centres across the world have many children living there just fine thank you very much... time for us to evolve, adapt and become aware of this fact.
    You look at the cities with children, that grow up to be bored gang members in many urban centers and then we will talk, your not looking to the future. I paid my dues at 65 I should be able to live where I like, without children if that's what I want!!You and Don have a downtown view, that wont work, it wont be vibrant, it will be dead, like it is now on a Saturday Thank god most parents want their children to be able to run around, or play hoops etc..St Albert looks better and better.
    We go to the citadel( season ticket holders) parking is now a pain, and restaurants near there are now nearly empty( and complaining), we no longer bother with them..its unfriendly!( OMG you have a car)

    My Friends lives downtown NY and if you think you know what youre talking about, take a trip to her condensed urban area

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    And Top_Dawg can't help but wonder exactly who are these pi$$ flaps that decide what is and what isn't a best practice.
    They all know better , until they dont !!

    Concrete jungles hardly. Urban centres across the world have many children living there just fine thank you very much... time for us to evolve, adapt and become aware of this fact.
    LOL!!
    Last edited by H.L.; 19-06-2017 at 12:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by booster View Post
    I wonder how many tax dollars were spent on this initiative in terms of outside consultants and city staff when even the basics the city has difficulty in doing
    That was my first though.

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    A buddy of mine widowed mother lives in one of those adult only buildings. It's about 6-7 floors and 5-6 years old. Anyway, the mother had to have an op and after she came out of the hospital my friend went to stay with her for a few days to help her out. My friend said she was going to have a long soak in a bubble bath then blow dry her hair etc. Anyway her mum said it was a bit late to do that as people would be asleep. It was nine o'clock on a Friday night. L O L. Her mum also told her if she went to the bathroom through the night to tinkle to not flush the toiled as it would wake the people around them.
    Oh my, this place was not inexpensive to buy and the walls I'm sure are not cardboard. Her mum told her it was more or less unwritten rules that the tenants followed, they all kinda did that. Sleepy Hollow at it's finest.
    Last edited by Gemini; 19-06-2017 at 01:35 PM.
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    Nine o'clock on a Friday.

    These grannies really know how to party.

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    My kids tell me to be careful how I treat them as they might have to pick what raisin factory (nursing home) I may have to go in when I'm elderly. My take is people who buy those over 55+ units are on a practice run for when that happens. Now I know that's not a nice thing to say but it seems that way to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    A buddy of mine widowed mother lives in one of those adult only buildings. It's about 6-7 floors and 5-6 years old. Anyway, the mother had to have an op and after she came out of the hospital my friend went to stay with her for a few days to help her out. My friend said she was going to have a long soak in a bubble bath then blow dry her hair etc. Anyway her mum said it was a bit late to do that as people would be asleep. It was nine o'clock on a Friday night. L O L. Her mum also told her if she went to the bathroom through the night to tinkle to not flush the toiled as it would wake the people around them.
    Oh my, this place was not inexpensive to buy and the walls I'm sure are not cardboard. Her mum told her it was more or less unwritten rules that the tenants followed, they all kinda did that. Sleepy Hollow at it's finest.
    That's up to her though! How thin are the walls, imagine a screaming baby if the walls are that thin???? We are never in bed that early, never. But why is that so funny? She is living her life, without someone's screaming bloody kids!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    My kids tell me to be careful how I treat them as they might have to pick what raisin factory (nursing home) I may have to go in when I'm elderly. My take is people who buy those over 55+ units are on a practice run for when that happens. Now I know that's not a nice thing to say but it seems that way to me.
    Yes, we wouldn't want them to have peace and quiet if that's what they desire. I'm betting colonel sanders McKeen won't like/let kids in his building, unless its for a photo op!
    Its a shame your kids don't understand anymore than you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    So we don't want to align with best practices across Canada and be more inclusive? The reality is that you will not be flooded with screaming babies and families in your building, perhaps a couple, but it will allow people to REMAIN in their homes, neighbourhoods, communities if and when they decided to have kids.

    Concrete jungles hardly. Urban centres across the world have many children living there just fine thank you very much... time for us to evolve, adapt and become aware of this fact.
    You look at the cities with children, that grow up to be bored gang members in many urban centers and then we will talk, your not looking to the future. I paid my dues at 65 I should be able to live where I like, without children if that's what I want!!You and Don have a downtown view, that wont work, it wont be vibrant, it will be dead, like it is now on a Saturday Thank god most parents want their children to be able to run around, or play hoops etc..St Albert looks better and better.
    We go to the citadel( season ticket holders) parking is now a pain, and restaurants near there are now nearly empty( and complaining), we no longer bother with them..its unfriendly!( OMG you have a car)

    My Friends lives downtown NY and if you think you know what youre talking about, take a trip to her condensed urban area
    Clearly unaware and uninformed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    So we don't want to align with best practices across Canada and be more inclusive? The reality is that you will not be flooded with screaming babies and families in your building, perhaps a couple, but it will allow people to REMAIN in their homes, neighbourhoods, communities if and when they decided to have kids.

    Concrete jungles hardly. Urban centres across the world have many children living there just fine thank you very much... time for us to evolve, adapt and become aware of this fact.
    You look at the cities with children, that grow up to be bored gang members in many urban centers and then we will talk, your not looking to the future. I paid my dues at 65 I should be able to live where I like, without children if that's what I want!!You and Don have a downtown view, that wont work, it wont be vibrant, it will be dead, like it is now on a Saturday Thank god most parents want their children to be able to run around, or play hoops etc..St Albert looks better and better.
    We go to the citadel( season ticket holders) parking is now a pain, and restaurants near there are now nearly empty( and complaining), we no longer bother with them..its unfriendly!( OMG you have a car)

    My Friends lives downtown NY and if you think you know what youre talking about, take a trip to her condensed urban area
    Clearly unaware and uninformed.
    They live there, you don't. You're nobody in Edmonton.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    My kids tell me to be careful how I treat them as they might have to pick what raisin factory (nursing home) I may have to go in when I'm elderly. My take is people who buy those over 55+ units are on a practice run for when that happens. Now I know that's not a nice thing to say but it seems that way to me.
    Yes, we wouldn't want them to have peace and quiet if that's what they desire. I'm betting colonel sanders McKeen won't like/let kids in his building, unless its for a photo op!
    Its a shame your kids don't understand anymore than you do.
    My kids would not care or begrudge you living in your over 55 condo. Who knows, they may choose to live in an over 55 building when they get older. I really don't care or begrudge you living in your over 55 condo but I am entitled to have an opinion on it. My opinion is not the same as yours but no need to get uppity about it.
    The statement about 'bringing kids up and now you want peace and quiet' is rather bogus and rather selfish. Unless the 'kids' were bought up on an acreage or farm I'm sure they made themselves heard to their neighbors. Unless they were to scared to open their mouths and move (which I doubt) I'm sure when they were around they let of steam. I have lived in dwellings with multiply age groups and every noise just blended into each other. Every one just got on with it because it's a thing called 'life'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    So we don't want to align with best practices across Canada and be more inclusive? The reality is that you will not be flooded with screaming babies and families in your building, perhaps a couple, but it will allow people to REMAIN in their homes, neighbourhoods, communities if and when they decided to have kids.

    Concrete jungles hardly. Urban centres across the world have many children living there just fine thank you very much... time for us to evolve, adapt and become aware of this fact.
    You look at the cities with children, that grow up to be bored gang members in many urban centers and then we will talk, your not looking to the future. I paid my dues at 65 I should be able to live where I like, without children if that's what I want!!You and Don have a downtown view, that wont work, it wont be vibrant, it will be dead, like it is now on a Saturday Thank god most parents want their children to be able to run around, or play hoops etc..St Albert looks better and better.
    We go to the citadel( season ticket holders) parking is now a pain, and restaurants near there are now nearly empty( and complaining), we no longer bother with them..its unfriendly!( OMG you have a car)

    My Friends lives downtown NY and if you think you know what youre talking about, take a trip to her condensed urban area
    2 million New Yorkers are under the age of 18.

    http://www1.nyc.gov/site/planning/da...ion-facts.page

    If it's non of our business how people over 55 want to live their lives then it's non of our business how people bring up their kids. Weather that be a single/multiple/high rise/walk up/farm/country dwelling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    So we don't want to align with best practices across Canada and be more inclusive? The reality is that you will not be flooded with screaming babies and families in your building, perhaps a couple, but it will allow people to REMAIN in their homes, neighbourhoods, communities if and when they decided to have kids.

    Concrete jungles hardly. Urban centres across the world have many children living there just fine thank you very much... time for us to evolve, adapt and become aware of this fact.
    You look at the cities with children, that grow up to be bored gang members in many urban centers and then we will talk, your not looking to the future. I paid my dues at 65 I should be able to live where I like, without children if that's what I want!!You and Don have a downtown view, that wont work, it wont be vibrant, it will be dead, like it is now on a Saturday Thank god most parents want their children to be able to run around, or play hoops etc..St Albert looks better and better.
    We go to the citadel( season ticket holders) parking is now a pain, and restaurants near there are now nearly empty( and complaining), we no longer bother with them..its unfriendly!( OMG you have a car)

    My Friends lives downtown NY and if you think you know what youre talking about, take a trip to her condensed urban area
    2 million New Yorkers are under the age of 18.

    http://www1.nyc.gov/site/planning/da...ion-facts.page

    If it's non of our business how people over 55 want to live their lives then it's non of our business how people bring up their kids. Weather that be a single/multiple/high rise/walk up/farm/country dwelling.
    Gemini, I agree, but why can't I live in an 18+ plus building, when I got this place for that very reason. Why change the rules on me /us now. My GF works with inner city kids was all I meant and they don't have the luxury of say green grass, unless its an outing..never mind..why bother? You win, we are of no use..I'm so very upset...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    My kids tell me to be careful how I treat them as they might have to pick what raisin factory (nursing home) I may have to go in when I'm elderly. My take is people who buy those over 55+ units are on a practice run for when that happens. Now I know that's not a nice thing to say but it seems that way to me.
    Yes, we wouldn't want them to have peace and quiet if that's what they desire. I'm betting colonel sanders McKeen won't like/let kids in his building, unless its for a photo op!
    Its a shame your kids don't understand anymore than you do.
    My kids would not care or begrudge you living in your over 55 condo. Who knows, they may choose to live in an over 55 building when they get older. I really don't care or begrudge you living in your over 55 condo but I am entitled to have an opinion on it. My opinion is not the same as yours but no need to get uppity about it.
    The statement about 'bringing kids up and now you want peace and quiet' is rather bogus and rather selfish. Unless the 'kids' were bought up on an acreage or farm I'm sure they made themselves heard to their neighbors. Unless they were to scared to open their mouths and move (which I doubt) I'm sure when they were around they let of steam. I have lived in dwellings with multiply age groups and every noise just blended into each other. Every one just got on with it because it's a thing called 'life'.
    I'm not in a 55 plus, I'm too young for that! We are in our sixties, we've had our noise..we still have noise, I just don't want to be in a building with children. I know couples in their thirties that don't want that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Gemini, I agree, but why can't I live in an 18+ plus building, when I got this place for that very reason. Why change the rules on me /us now. My GF works with inner city kids was all I meant and they don't have the luxury of say green grass, unless its an outing..never mind..why bother? You win, we are of no use..I'm so very upset...
    Why now? Because it is 2017.

    Last time I checked there was a good amount of park space, trees, fountains, pools etc. in central Edmonton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Gemini, I agree, but why can't I live in an 18+ plus building, when I got this place for that very reason. Why change the rules on me /us now. My GF works with inner city kids was all I meant and they don't have the luxury of say green grass, unless its an outing..never mind..why bother? You win, we are of no use..I'm so very upset...
    Why now? Because it is 2017.

    Last time I checked there was a good amount of park space, trees, fountains, pools etc. in central Edmonton.
    Seriously? You mustn't be any kind of father or uncle. Rolls eyes!
    And your, it's 2017 sounds as idiotic and patronizing as when Trudeau 2.0 said it was 2016. Another tater tot perhaps?? :P

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    I am an uncle and certainly have many wee ones with friends around, including in multi-fam Downtown, Oliver, Old Strat, Riverdale etc.
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    I think Edmonton needs to deal with the panhandlers before I'd even think of taking kids downtown.
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    I fail to see how pandhandlers are dangerous to people.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

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    In a world of billions of people kids living downtown Edmonton is a 3rd. world problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think Edmonton needs to deal with the panhandlers before I'd even think of taking kids downtown.
    These kind of statements are hard to understand/comprehend. Again, this is not an Edmonton thing... tons of kids live in many central/downtowns that have homelessness/panhandling far worse than us without issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think Edmonton needs to deal with the panhandlers before I'd even think of taking kids downtown.
    I live in a leafy suburb and my local strip mall has at least one regular panhandler. I think he travels from strip mall to strip mall so he can maximize how many people he annoys. A friend of mine lives in the Beverley area with fairly high density of kids. She said she runs into panhandlers all the time in Abbotsfield Mall.
    Not just a downtown problem unfortunately.
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    I think Edmonton is a special case. The panhandlers dominated downtown for years. The panhandlers will come begging for money anywhere. You can't go a block without being harassed for change.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    So in The Cat's world, Edmonton shouldn't have any kids at all because panhandlers. The logic of this guy continues to astonish me.
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    I'd like to see downtown have more families, including kids. It's great to see downtown host the Street Perfomers or the K-Days parade. I'm looking forward to the RAM opening. I work downtown and it's great to see the improvement over 15 years. To a mom who brings her kids down to the library, she might think twice if people harass her for change.
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    Harass is one thing, asking is another.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think Edmonton is a special case. The panhandlers dominated downtown for years. The panhandlers will come begging for money anywhere. You can't go a block without being harassed for change.
    Have you been to Vancouver? Toronto? Montreal?

    All 3 of these major Canadian cities have far more visible / aggressive panhandlers then Edmonton.

    Inner cities will continue to suffer from these issues as most Downtown cores go through serious gentrification displacing and leaving in poverty the original residents before it does a full 360.
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    Young families typically leave cities for the suburbs. Here’s how to keep them downtown.
    Urbanist Brent Toderian explains how Vancouver held onto its families.
    https://www.vox.com/2017/6/21/158155...amilies-cities
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  46. #46

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    The one thing I agree most with the article is homes and architecture being designed to be internal, vs external. That in a nutshell makes or breaks an areas vitality for me. They referenced that it hits home at a Sesame Street level, that street door fronts signify that kind of harmony and interaction with neighborhood. To me that is charming defined.

    People go to places like NY, London, and see the rows upon rows of brownstone dwellings, in London often wrought iron gated but still communicating with street front.

    All that aside Vancouver and NY and London are poor examples of cities that are "family friendly"

    You have to either luck into some kind of fantastic subsidized opportunity rarely available, have huge sums of inherited money, or I don't know what. 1M doesn't even buy a crackhouse in DT Vancouver now unless you want Hastings street a block away..


    What the article didn't describe though is the overall pull of what TRULY draws people and family to great DT's. They all feature tremendous park space and access to wonderful park experiences with varied features, paths, exploration etc. To wit DT Vancouver is not what it is without Stanley Park. Its the heart of it, as many architects that think Coal Harbor and places like that are the buzz, Its Stanley Park and the seawall and environs. It always has been. Changing False Creek was big as well and furthering the Sea wall through there. IN NY its of course Central Park that helps lend a DT core an escape from city pace and dreary smog. London has Hyde Park, James Park and Hampton Heath to get quick escapes and urban picnics for stay at home moms or dads. Those things are understated in articles like this but they are INTEGRAL. To that degree the Funicular might be one of the most important developments in Edmonton albeit it wasn't properly done and should also span the river offering easy and relaxe access to such things as Muttart conservatory and Grierson area. Edmonton river valley is far less assessable and a circle route from the Funicular, cross river, through parkland over to Walterdale, back to Rossdale, or Leg etc would be such a circuit that is harder to do now.

    Access to quick and available parkland for a morning, afternoon, evening stroll is one of the most important things to an attractive DT. It would appear superficial, and window dressing, but its the very thing that speaks "I love this place". ARchitecture and urban build rarely does that as much. Its the natural spaces or designed parks that are imaginative that appeal. That's what creates am emdiromg love affair.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  47. #47

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    AS a further bit. Anybody that has spent ample time in a great city knows that a balance is required. Humans have a natural affinity to natural spaces even if they don't know it. Think back about your trips to great cities. Its fine to do the hectic visiting the usual sites and the noise and bustle but often you would tire in days if respite wasn't immediately available. So people walk hand in hand in the human spaces, the spaces that offer a breather, a trip away from the city that is in the City. Central Park isn't an accident its REQUIRED. That city is grimy and isn't the same without it. Its the heart of the place. The main place any kid would remember is time spent with families in that park interacting with the many features and exploring it. Connecting with nature is a restart for humans. Even the most urban of humans require this. Any city would be drudgery without it. The park space access is critical feature of a successful DT. Our forefathers recognized that when we first made places like Borden park which was for decades neglected and largely forgotten.

    Has anybody visited Montreal? Do you think it would be the same place without wonderful Mount Royal park? To me these are some of the best things about any city. The natural, or created natural spaces. Its the counter to what tires people about urban experience without it. It completes it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Young families typically leave cities for the suburbs. Here’s how to keep them downtown.
    Urbanist Brent Toderian explains how Vancouver held onto its families.
    https://www.vox.com/2017/6/21/158155...amilies-cities
    Bingo and not rocket science.

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    All 4 of those things are done better in the suburbs than they are in Downtown, in Edmonton.

    • Larger, family friendly housing is cheaper on the periphery.
    • Parks in suburban residential neighbourhoods tend to be more child friendly than anything we've currently got Downtown (and even all the planned stuff still doesn't really measure up).
    • Daycares are limited, thanks to the infinitesimal number of family friendly housing options precluding dayhomes & the like forcing it into one style/mode of service that many parents don't like. Also, the complete dearth of schools also means no school-tied care either.
    • Schools? What schools?


    Vancouver has dramatically different demographics & land-use constraints than Edmonton. While their approach certainly works for them, attempting to parrot what they're doing devoid of the contextual differences is the height of futility.

    "Bingo" indeed.
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    Does that prohibit them from being done or being done better as we move forward, hence THE POINT of much of this.

    Housing exists for families and more coming
    Parks are here and in the works with more of an inclusive focus
    Downtown has more daycares than anywhere in the city
    There are 4 elementary, 2jr and 1 sr high within 10mins, similar to or more than most burbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Does that prohibit them from being done or being done better as we move forward, hence THE POINT of much of this.

    Housing exists for families and more coming
    Parks are here and in the works with more of an inclusive focus
    Downtown has more daycares than anywhere in the city
    There are 4 elementary, 2jr and 1 sr high within 10mins, similar to or more than most burbs.
    I live in Westmount, right on the East border, close enough to downtown without being downtown. As I'm sure you are aware, many condos and apartment buildings self-designate as "adult" buildings.

    Our was, and I got it changed to allow families. You'd think it was going to ruin the place, according to some of the complaints. The #1 complaint was that children are noisy, and it's true, sometimes they are.

    But in our experience the noise level and number of complaints went down, not up. It seems people behave better when there are families around, and we have fewer problem "adult" tenants now. We used to have the police here every few days, mostly because of one problem tenant (who had drinking/druggie friends in the building). He's gone now, and it's not the kind of "adult" building it used to be, with lots of drinking and partying.

    It would be nice to see more shops downtown that cater to kids and parents. I remember shopping for toys at Christmas a few years ago, and there were no stores with toys in the core. Even the Bay took theirs out. It's a chicken and egg thing, though.

    I'd have no problem raising children downtown. There is always something going on it seems, and there's lots to do.
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    Bingo.

    For toys:

    The Bay
    Audreys
    Winners
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    Help our child friendly working group learn more about what your business does or could do to make families more welcome at your business.

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/52YNFZ7
    Last edited by IanO; 21-07-2017 at 04:30 PM.
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    A similar survey for consumers and your needs.

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/52MGXZT
    Last edited by IanO; 21-07-2017 at 04:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by booster View Post
    I wonder how many tax dollars were spent on this initiative in terms of outside consultants and city staff when even the basics the city has difficulty in doing
    Its a little sad isn't it? There is a whole industry of people whose job is to produce studies and initiatives, none of which will ever be tracked or checked as to how effective they have been, and nobody ever loses a job if their study or project doesn't actually achieve anything, which I expect is the case with most of them (because everyone has moved on to the next study / initiative that won't be implemented or reviewed...). If we took all the people doing studies / designing pretty web sites with pretty happy people, and handed them shovels and hammers, and mops and pressure washers, and asked them to go out to communities and help them build playgrounds, and clean graffiti, and feed kids, and provide sports activities for kids, in struggling communities (i.e. Boyle Street "downtown") as opposed to rich communities (i.e. Oliver "downtown"), there might actually be something useful done for children who actually need the help.
    Last edited by moahunter; 21-07-2017 at 04:47 PM.

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    The old slide/playground at McKay Avenue School/Dick Mather Park. A group (EPSB, EPS, DECL, DBA) of us are working on a new playground adjacent to the 1881 schoolhouse. More to come, but save the date for September 23 to join us there for an announcement.


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    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...hall-fountains

    The beloved City Hall wading pool will only be ankle-deep after it reopens in 2019.
    “It will still have play potential for kids. … But what I don’t know is if six inches (15 cm) of water is enough for that,” Coun. Scott McKeen, whose ward includes downtown, said Tuesday.
    For the last 25 years, the City Hall wading pool has been a favourite with families and summer camps. The water is 40 cm deep, past most adults’ knees. It will drop to 15 cm in the new design, part of a $13-million overhaul for City Hall’s surroundings.
    I guess Scott means it has potential play potential, not actual play potential & certainly not actual play?
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    Yet another Daycare Downtown. Excellent to see.

    Reference ID: Job No 269405038-001
    Description: To change the Use from Professional, Financial and Office Support Services to Child Care Services (74 occupants) and to construct interior alterations.
    Location: 10004 - 104 AVENUE NW
    Plan 9524494 Lot 2
    10004 - 104 AVENUE NW
    Plan 9525104 Lot 4
    Applicant: ALNAJJAR, DOAA
    Status: In Development Review
    Create Date: 12/5/2017 9:06:38 AM
    Neighbourhood: DOWNTOWN
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  60. #60

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    I wonder how many times higher the daytime child population is in Downtown compared to the evenings given the number of daycare slots in the core far, far outstrips the native population of children.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    ^its a natural fit for a lot of parents to drop their kids off close to their work, then pick them up for the commute back home. Not just a downtown thing, a lot of people will pick a suburban of industrial zone day care if its close to their work, it nice to know you can get to your children quickly if something happens.

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    It was meant as a completely neutral question about the numbers & not a thinly-veiled commentary of any sort. Sheer curiosity, since I can't be arsed to try and dig the information out (if available) from the city's open data.

    Maybe stop reading so much between the lines & projecting that everyone is as partisan, scammy, scummy, disingenuous & duplicitous as you are.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  63. #63

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    Reducing the amount of water in the wading pool is bullshizzle, as are the reasons for it. Another penny wise and pound foolish decision by council - "This amenity appears popular and well-used, let's make it less fun and see what happens," says council. The current depth ensured older kids some entertainment meaning families could enjoy the amenity. Of course, the majority of the crowd using the pool are not the well-heeled, downtown condo dweller types so don't expect much hand wringing over the decision.

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    I certainly am not pleased with this and have expressed that in the stakeholder meetings for the civic precinct.
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    Given the popularity of the pool I would think the solutions would be move the planters back from the pool edge and to increase the capacity of the filtration system. As it stands they are removing something that makes the city and City Hall a better place.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    There are many factors in play here for this decision, but it will be much easier for wee ones to enter/exit and safer for young children. It will also allow parents to go in and out without the need of a bathing suit.

    I prefer how it is now, but the list of reasons for this is long and regulatory.
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    I presume then they'll be removing the legislature pools as well....

    For entering and exiting they could have sloped the bottom to have a shallow and and a deeper end. The reality I see from this change is fewer people there and more people at the legislature.
    Last edited by Paul Turnbull; 13-12-2017 at 12:43 PM. Reason: spelling

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  68. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    It will also allow parents to go in and out without the need of a bathing suit.
    Wouldn't that be a bit disturbing for prudish Albertans, if the pool turned into a nudist thing?

  69. #69

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    The children are actually tax payers and mommy and daddy are city council/administration. Do we have legit concerns? Of course. But as always, they know what's best for us! They can do no wrong!

  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There are many factors in play here for this decision, but it will be much easier for wee ones to enter/exit and safer for young children. It will also allow parents to go in and out without the need of a bathing suit.

    I prefer how it is now, but the list of reasons for this is long and regulatory.
    If your kids are little enough you're going in with them regardless of any change to the safety of getting in and out. If the jets are going you're getting wet. The depth of the water won't make a difference. There's a few adults/teens in bathing suits around in the summer but the majority of users are in street clothes/sockless/shirtless etc. Regulatory my azz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There are many factors in play here for this decision, but it will be much easier for wee ones to enter/exit and safer for young children. It will also allow parents to go in and out without the need of a bathing suit.

    I prefer how it is now, but the list of reasons for this is long and regulatory.
    That's *&^%.

    How wet you are going to get isn't going to change one iota if it's shallower than this:

    [IMG]Photo-1-City-Hall-FountainSmall-533x400[1][2305843009214881724].jpg[/IMG]

    Who makes and who approves these kinds of *&&^% decisions?

    They're doing this for "safety and health reasons"? Really?

    If this is for safety and health reasons, how many safety and health issues have needed to be dealt with in the last quarter of a century that this would have prevented? And how many more safety and health issues will there be because there isn't enough water to cushion a fall and there won’t be as much ice making up the skating surface in the winter making it that much more likely to cut through to concrete when it gets soft?

    If they need some larger pumps and some larger filters to reduce the flow time through the system from 3 hours to 2 hours, that’s probably a lot less expensive and a lot more practical than reducing the time this way.

    There aren’t many places that have as much public use or as much of a sense of public ownership and pride or that are as egalitarian as this one simple amenity manages to be for Edmontonians. It’s the sort of thing City Council should be looking to replicate, not eliminate.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  72. #72

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    They keep making terrible, unpopular decisions because they know people won't hold them to account at the ballot box. I didn't vote for the incumbent last time. Did any of you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    They keep making terrible, unpopular decisions because they know people won't hold them to account at the ballot box. I didn't vote for the incumbent last time. Did any of you?

    I would not have, we moved just before the election.

  74. #74

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    Let's see. Which popular city amenity is easier to get to on transit with multiple busses from all points in the city?
    a) Accidental Beach
    b) City Hall Wading Pool

    oooo, another one:
    Which popular city amenity already exists, doesn't require spending an extra city dime, and doesn't generate complaints from citizens?
    a) Accidental Beach
    b) City Hall Wading Pool

    One more for the road:
    Which popular city amenity will be better used by middle-class, high-income earners of their respective surrounding areas?
    a) Accidental Beach
    b) City Hall Wading Pool

  75. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    I didn't vote for the incumbent last time. Did any of you?
    Nope. Only office I actually cast a vote in was for the school trustee. Mayor & Councillor left blank.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There are many factors in play here for this decision, but it will be much easier for wee ones to enter/exit and safer for young children. It will also allow parents to go in and out without the need of a bathing suit.

    I prefer how it is now, but the list of reasons for this is long and regulatory.
    That's *&^%.

    How wet you are going to get isn't going to change one iota if it's shallower than this:

    [IMG]Photo-1-City-Hall-FountainSmall-533x400[1][2305843009214881724].jpg[/IMG]

    Who makes and who approves these kinds of *&&^% decisions?

    They're doing this for "safety and health reasons"? Really?

    If this is for safety and health reasons, how many safety and health issues have needed to be dealt with in the last quarter of a century that this would have prevented? And how many more safety and health issues will there be because there isn't enough water to cushion a fall and there won’t be as much ice making up the skating surface in the winter making it that much more likely to cut through to concrete when it gets soft?

    If they need some larger pumps and some larger filters to reduce the flow time through the system from 3 hours to 2 hours, that’s probably a lot less expensive and a lot more practical than reducing the time this way.

    There aren’t many places that have as much public use or as much of a sense of public ownership and pride or that are as egalitarian as this one simple amenity manages to be for Edmontonians. It’s the sort of thing City Council should be looking to replicate, not eliminate.
    Don't shoot the messenger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    There are many factors in play here for this decision, but it will be much easier for wee ones to enter/exit and safer for young children. It will also allow parents to go in and out without the need of a bathing suit.

    I prefer how it is now, but the list of reasons for this is long and regulatory.
    That's *&^%.

    How wet you are going to get isn't going to change one iota if it's shallower than this:

    [IMG]Photo-1-City-Hall-FountainSmall-533x400[1][2305843009214881724].jpg[/IMG]

    Who makes and who approves these kinds of *&&^% decisions?

    They're doing this for "safety and health reasons"? Really?

    If this is for safety and health reasons, how many safety and health issues have needed to be dealt with in the last quarter of a century that this would have prevented? And how many more safety and health issues will there be because there isn't enough water to cushion a fall and there won’t be as much ice making up the skating surface in the winter making it that much more likely to cut through to concrete when it gets soft?

    If they need some larger pumps and some larger filters to reduce the flow time through the system from 3 hours to 2 hours, that’s probably a lot less expensive and a lot more practical than reducing the time this way.

    There aren’t many places that have as much public use or as much of a sense of public ownership and pride or that are as egalitarian as this one simple amenity manages to be for Edmontonians. It’s the sort of thing City Council should be looking to replicate, not eliminate.
    Don't shoot the messenger.
    "There are many factors in play here for this decision, but it will be much easier for wee ones to enter/exit and safer for young children. It will also allow parents to go in and out without the need of a bathing suit" sure seems to include two conclusions by the poster and not a quote attributed to others.

    either way, both conclusions are still *&^%.
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    Bingo!
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    ^
    ^^actually, those are verbatim from the COE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^
    ^^actually, those are verbatim from the COE.
    then put them in quotes and attribute them instead of taking ownership.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    Similarly, don't presume or assume.
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    Strange, your "verbatim" phrase doesn't exist anywhere Google indexes.

    Citation please?

    ver·ba·timvərˈbādəm/
    adverb & adjective


    • in exactly the same words as were used originally.

    par·a·phraseˈperəˌfrāz/
    verb

    • express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

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    It was never designed as a wading pool. They are going to drain it at night as well. I think its a safety issue, I've seen plenty of children, with no supervision.

  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Similarly, don't presume or assume.
    Get some credibility & objectivity before you expect people to take you at your word.
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    The ultimate face palm for me here is the regulations in question are new, from the province, and don't apply to the Legislature grounds.

    Back in 2014, the Progressive Conservative government brought in new regulations for pool safety. The rules required lifeguards, which the City Hall pool doesn’t have. And under the new regulations, the pool’s water was supposed to “turn over” every two hours. But the existing pool filtration system only turned over the water every three hours. Alberta Health Services granted the city repeated waivers.
    But hey, we can always wade at the legislature pool. To be sure, the water there is even deeper than at City Hall — it’s a glorious 48.26 cm, a full foot-and-a-half deep. And the water change rate there is every eight hours, not every two or three.

    But turns out, the legislature pool is on Crown land. And AHS has no authority to enforce the province’s own rules on the province’s property.
    - Paula Simons: Draining joy from City Hall pool is shallow thinking

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Similarly, don't presume or assume.
    Get some credibility & objectivity before you expect people to take you at your word.
    Says the guy.
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  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Similarly, don't presume or assume.
    Get some credibility & objectivity before you expect people to take you at your word.
    Says the guy.
    If I don't think you have any credibility, how much stock do you think I place in your insults/criticism?

    Come at me, drop the passive aggressive dancing & tell me what you really feel, bro.

    (Still waiting on that "verbatim" source, unless you're using "verbatim" like "literally" is used in the vernacular to mean its opposite...)
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  88. #88

    Default

    On CBC radio this AM Mayor Iveson hinted about a spray park and possibly putting in a small playground in/around Churchill Square. These are massively stupid ideas. Apparently "child-friendly" in Edmonton terms means pandering.

    Why are citizens only hearing about these provincial regulations and their impact on the amenity now? It's not unheard of for one order of government to say "Hey, this great city amenity is going to crater if you don't get your voices heard at the provincial level." Makes me think this decision being "regulatory" is a canard. Some friggin' city Poindexter doesn't like the look of the unwashed masses frolicking outside city hall. Push a little harder and I bet you'll hear complaints about crowds using the city hall washrooms and mucking up the floors.

  89. #89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post


    Strange, your "verbatim" phrase doesn't exist anywhere Google indexes.

    Citation please?

    ver·ba·timvərˈbādəm/
    adverb & adjective


    • in exactly the same words as were used originally.

    par·a·phraseˈperəˌfrāz/
    verb

    • express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

    Not strange.

  90. #90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    On CBC radio this AM Mayor Iveson hinted about a spray park and possibly putting in a small playground in/around Churchill Square. These are massively stupid ideas. Apparently "child-friendly" in Edmonton terms means pandering.

    Why are citizens only hearing about these provincial regulations and their impact on the amenity now? It's not unheard of for one order of government to say "Hey, this great city amenity is going to crater if you don't get your voices heard at the provincial level." Makes me think this decision being "regulatory" is a canard. Some friggin' city Poindexter doesn't like the look of the unwashed masses frolicking outside city hall. Push a little harder and I bet you'll hear complaints about crowds using the city hall washrooms and mucking up the floors.
    I’d guess it depends on one’s connectedness to pool issues. For a few years now I’ve been aware of the changing regulations only because we have a partial ownership (not time share) in a place that has to change one of its pools and substantially upgrade everything to meet water quality standards.



    Here’s another one. If someone missed the article they might not know about it until their city or town council puts forth the cost estimates:

    Billions of litres of raw sewage, untreated waste water pouring into Canadian waterways - Politics - CBC News

    “In fact, the amount of untreated waste water, which includes raw sewage and rain and snow runoff, that flowed into Canadian rivers and oceans last year would fill 82,255 Olympic-size swimming pools — an increase of 1.9 per cent over 2014.

    The volume was supposed to drop as cities and towns move to comply with the standards the Conservative government adopted four years ago. “
    ...

    The worst offenders have until 2020 to comply. Municipalities that were doing some water treatment but didn't meet the new standards, have until 2030 or 2040.

    Municipalities that don't meet the deadlines face the prospect of charges and stiff fines. ...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sewa...ties-1.3889072
    Last edited by KC; 14-12-2017 at 10:39 AM.

  91. #91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    On CBC radio this AM Mayor Iveson hinted about a spray park and possibly putting in a small playground in/around Churchill Square. These are massively stupid ideas. Apparently "child-friendly" in Edmonton terms means pandering.
    Spray parks are the worst. Literally the tackiest things known to man. I don't care if they're for children. Downtown churchill square is for everyone to look at and frequent, not just kids. What existed before was a perfect compromise.

  92. #92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    On CBC radio this AM Mayor Iveson hinted about a spray park and possibly putting in a small playground in/around Churchill Square. These are massively stupid ideas. Apparently "child-friendly" in Edmonton terms means pandering.
    Spray parks are the worst. Literally the tackiest things known to man. I don't care if they're for children. Downtown churchill square is for everyone to look at and frequent, not just kids. What existed before was a perfect compromise.
    You don’t see beauty the way I do. Kids love spray parks. Seeing a whole bunch of kids yelling and screaming and running and having a great time is always a better than any communication among adults, especially the ever hyper-critical conversations.

    Anyway having seen what bike riders have reaped, the Spray Park Users Association of Edmonton is no longer willing to compromise.
    Last edited by KC; 14-12-2017 at 11:19 AM.

  93. #93
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Default

    Spray parks are great however I don't think one would be appropriate for Churchill Square. What is appropriate is what already exists, a wading pool!

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  94. #94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    On CBC radio this AM Mayor Iveson hinted about a spray park and possibly putting in a small playground in/around Churchill Square. These are massively stupid ideas. Apparently "child-friendly" in Edmonton terms means pandering.
    Spray parks are the worst. Literally the tackiest things known to man. I don't care if they're for children. Downtown churchill square is for everyone to look at and frequent, not just kids. What existed before was a perfect compromise.
    You don’t see beauty the way I do. Kids love spray parks. Seeing a whole bunch of kids yelling and screaming and running and having a great time is always a better than any communication among adults, especially the ever hyper-critical conversations.
    Spray parks have their place. It's not by city hall. We want gaudy animal plastic thingies in literally the centre of the city and its seat of government?

  95. #95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Spray parks are great however I don't think one would be appropriate for Churchill Square. What is appropriate is what already exists, a wading pool!
    And a beer tent and outrageously loud musical events throughout the summer...

  96. #96

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by River Valley Green View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    On CBC radio this AM Mayor Iveson hinted about a spray park and possibly putting in a small playground in/around Churchill Square. These are massively stupid ideas. Apparently "child-friendly" in Edmonton terms means pandering.
    Spray parks are the worst. Literally the tackiest things known to man. I don't care if they're for children. Downtown churchill square is for everyone to look at and frequent, not just kids. What existed before was a perfect compromise.
    You don’t see beauty the way I do. Kids love spray parks. Seeing a whole bunch of kids yelling and screaming and running and having a great time is always a better than any communication among adults, especially the ever hyper-critical conversations.
    Spray parks have their place. It's not by city hall. We want gaudy animal plastic thingies in literally the centre of the city and its seat of government?
    Oh man. You’re just building an ever stronger case for a spray park.

  97. #97

    Default

    A spray park is a whole different thing than a wading pool;. It's not an attraction, since they're everywhere unlike our extremely few wading pools. Unlike a wading pool, spray parks are not used at all other than warm summer days. and a wading pool that's not being used for wading becomes a reflecting pool. a spray park becomes an abandoned spray park.
    There can only be one.

  98. #98
    C2E Long Term Contributor
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    Default

    A spray park is NOT in the future for Churchill Sq. Let me be clear here. There might be an opportunity with Centennial plaza south of the Milner though...
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  99. #99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Absolutely.

    A spray park is a whole different thing. It's not an attraction, since they're everywhere unlike our extremely few wading pools. Unlike a wading pool, spray parks are not used at all other than warm summer days. and a wading pool that's not being used for wading becomes a reflecting pool. a spray park becomes an abandoned spray park.
    I like reflecting pools, statues, grand buildings, pomp and circumstance as much as anyone. That’s why adding some life nearby might create a great sense of relief.

  100. #100
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
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    Westmount, Edmonton
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Spray parks are great however I don't think one would be appropriate for Churchill Square. What is appropriate is what already exists, a wading pool!
    And a beer tent and outrageously loud musical events throughout the summer...
    A beer tent would be lovely. Now I want go back to Europe again.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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