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Thread: Trump - misc

  1. #1301

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    Well lets face it. The UN does not do 'chutzpah'. What it does best is the status quo. A bunch of so called leaders get together and advance the world, oh wait, maybe advance is not the right word. A bunch of leaders get together pat each other on the back, make nice, eat a lot, get to stay at nice hotels and just generally spend a lot of money on the worlds taxpayers dime.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  2. #1302

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    In the middle of his comments, Trump paused to take the room's temperature, but it was apparent world leaders were unmoved by the rebuke of the worker state. The room was silent. It was reminiscent of Jeb Bush's "please clap" moment.
    Conservative commentator Bill O'Reilly perhaps described it best: "Most fascinating part of Trump [United Nations] speech: After lambasting socialism, he paused, perhaps waiting for applause. None came. Stony silence."
    http://www.newsweek.com/trump-was-la...cialism-667785

    Of course they were silent when Trump bashed socialist policies - none of them wanted to be sent to the camps by their countries' leaders for applauding that.

    Most of the world is not free.

  3. #1303

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    Who do you consider free?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  4. #1304

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    Western Nation-State democracies are generally the most free societies on Earth.

  5. #1305

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Western Nation-State democracies are generally the most free societies on Earth.
    Here's the most recent breakdown from the Cato Institute's Human Freedom Index. Lest you think I'm picking a source that's biased towards socialism, I'll remind you they're a right-leaning, libertarian think tank funded by the Koch Brothers. The Institute states that it favors policies "that are consistent with the traditional American principles of limited government, individual liberty, and peace", so right up your alley.



    Odd that the United States doesn't even crack the top 10 & somehow all these evil, oppressive socialist regimes have managed to weasel their way to the top...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  6. #1306
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    I think the Cato's rankings are pretty skewed towards "economic" freedom, and not necessarily universal human rights and the like. Hong Kong should absolutely not be at the top of that list, given that they're not even a democracy and numerous people have been "disappeared" and showing up in show trials in the mainland. In any case, we'd probably agree that "socialism" is ridiculously demonized in American political discourse.

  7. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I think the Cato's rankings are pretty skewed towards "economic" freedom, and not necessarily universal human rights and the like. Hong Kong should absolutely not be at the top of that list, given that they're not even a democracy and numerous people have been "disappeared" and showing up in show trials in the mainland. In any case, we'd probably agree that "socialism" is ridiculously demonized in American political discourse.
    this one might be less skewed - rankings were "measured by the Freedom House Organization for their adherence to the guidelines set out by the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.:

    http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/1...the-world.html

    although arguably more theatre than argument, the reasons for the united states no longer being on lists like this are summed up pretty well in this cinematic addressing of the root cause:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs

    the root cause is not not knowing any better, the root cause is not wanting to know any better and not heeding those who do know better.
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  8. #1308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    In any case, we'd probably agree that "socialism" is ridiculously demonized in American political discourse.
    I don't think socialism is criticized enough.


    As far as 20th century politics is concerned, there isn't a single political model that has imprisoned, killed, starved, tortured, and oppressed more people than socialism.

  9. #1309
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    In any case, we'd probably agree that "socialism" is ridiculously demonized in American political discourse.
    I don't think socialism is criticized enough.


    As far as 20th century politics is concerned, there isn't a single political model that has imprisoned, killed, starved, tortured, and oppressed more people than socialism.
    except that political models aren't binary with one represented by the american republic's version of democracy and all the others represented by socialism.

    and i'm pretty sure the imprisoned, killed, starved, tortured and oppressed as a result of the genocides conducted in bosnia and rwanda and darfur were victims of anarchy and dictatorships, not socialism.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  10. #1310

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    ^^You mean communism.

    People actually do criticize it, but under it's actual name, not the one that some people pick just so they can smear unrelated political models by association.
    There can only be one.

  11. #1311
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    What Ken and Highlander said. Socialism is not necessarily totalitarian communism. Just like capitalism isn't necessarily completely unregulated, "free market" corporatism or plutocracy. Either of those extremes will lead to terrible results. These things aren't binary, and they don't even exist on a single axis. The fact is, the countries with the highest standards of living and the most contented or happiest populations tend to be the ones that implement various aspects of both of those ideologies. Hence why I said that socialism is unfairly demonized in American political discourse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    It looked like Trump was expecting the UN to get behind him and cheer him on like he has at his post-election rallies (as strange as those are).
    They aren't odd, they serve a very specific purpose:

    Trump using campaign, RNC funds to pay legal bills from Russia probe: sources


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1BU2OS

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    Trump, the guy supposedly worth $10 billion (according to him), sure likes spending other people's money, doesn't he?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  14. #1314

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    Meanwhile in Trumpland, the freedom model, the US has the highest incarceration rate, one of the highest gun violence rates, highest medical costs, high child poverty and lower standard of living than many industrial countries and low standards of socialized services.

    You are only 'free' in the US if you have money.
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  15. #1315
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    Trump and Kim call each other mad. http://www.bbc.com/news

    Some accuracy at last, then. Wonderful that these two nutters have their fingers on the button.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  16. #1316

  17. #1317

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    It’s like the fanatical religious “fundamentalists” that like to try to enforce their interpretation of ‘word of God / Allah’ on others and then say everyone is a sinner’ or ‘things have changed’ when they themselves are called out for their own failures.

    NFL players who kneel during the national anthem are not the only ones violating US codes to protect the flag — Quartz


    https://qz.com/1085871/nfl-players-w...tect-the-flag/
    Bolding was mine



    Kneeling for Life and Liberty Is Patriotic - The Atlantic
    “...

    That double standard is indefensible.

    If Trump honored the principles of those athletes while contesting the underlying facts about policing, it would be possible to see both the president and the protesters as patriots hashing out a disagreement rooted in different takes on a complicated issue. But Trump is the converse of the protesters: Like a man who displays his marriage certificate in an ornate frame on a prominent wall, then parades his mistress in front of his wife and the mother of his children on the slopes of a posh ski resort, Trump adopts the posture of honoring the rectangular cloth bearing red, white, and blue, then denigrates the self-evident truths and principles behind it.

    Even as protesters objected that people of color are too often unjustly deprived of life or liberty by police officers, Trump pardoned a sheriff found by a court of law to have violated the constitutional rights of Americans. Over the objections of civil libertarians who understand the connection between property rights and the pursuit of happiness, the Trump administration announced a return to asset forfeiture policies that deprive Americans of money, cars, and houses without due process, when they have not been convicted of any crime, on the mere suspicion of police officers.

    Trump profanes that which is sacred in America’s civic tradition as flagrantly as one might expect of a man who went on Howard Stern’s radio show and gave the shock jock permission to call his daughter “a piece of ***.” It isn’t clear that anything is sacred to him; he shows more regard for how the size of his fortune is perceived than for any ideals.

    ...


    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...riotic/540942/




    Last edited by KC; Yesterday at 08:43 AM.

  18. #1318

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    I am surprised the owners let this political noise in the NFL reach the level that it has. When you are an owner, you invest hundreds of millions of dollars to pay these players to put people in the seats. You'd think that while a player is wearing the team uniform, he is on the job and his actions represent the franchise. I know that if I were an employer I wouldn't want my employee giving the middle finger to the country's flag and anthem while he's on National TV.


    Ratings and attendance are down this year, and this looks like it will only make it worse. If I were an advertiser with the NFL I would be majorly upset at the way this is being handled.

    It's also an easy win for Trump - if the players stand for the anthem, he'll take the credit. If the players continue kneeling during the anthem, it forces Trump's opponents to stick up for multimillionaire pro-athletes who are disrespecting the country.

  19. #1319

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    Oh man, the way you spin things is always the complete opposite of what actually is happening. The NFL and the NFLPA and all the league owners and the majority of fans all back the actions taken by the NFL and its players this weekend, and in the past.

    Leave it to trump to try to divide a country.

  20. #1320

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    Ha ha. Yeah right! Early NFL ratings from this weekend are showing they are the lowest they've been in 20 years.

    I'm sure it's just coincidental, though.

  21. #1321

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    Source please?

    https://www.si.com/tech-media/2017/0...nthem-protests

    "NBC drew an 11.6 overnight rating for Raiders-Redskins last night. Lowest for a Week 3 "SNF" since 2006 (Broncos-Patriots, 10.7 overnight


    So that's just one game, not all of sunday's games were like that, and that has more to do with who was playing that Trump's bullship



    "
    CBS's overall game coverage was up four percent from last year's Week 3, averaging an 11.9 rating compared to 11.4 last season. The network's Bengals-Packers game overtime game was the highest-rated game on any network this week, netting a 13.8 rating."

    Last edited by Medwards; Yesterday at 10:02 AM.

  22. #1322

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    Google it, lazybones. It's everywhere.

  23. #1323

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    Nobody wants to watch multi-millionare athletes too lazy or disrespectful to stand for their national anthem. Very dumb by the NFL. I was just in the US talking to someone who voted for Clinton - she told me, while she didn't support Trump, she can't stand the way they aren't letting him do anything now in Washington. I think most American's are with Trump on this one.

  24. #1324

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    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-are-way-down/ ++

    Lazy bones?


    Trump's Mostly False claim that NFL ratings are 'way down'

    By Manuela Tobias on Sunday, September 24th, 2017 at 5:56 p.m.









    Autoplay: On | Off

    President Donald Trump blamed low National Football League ratings and attendance on unpatriotic players.
    "NFL attendance and ratings are WAY DOWN. Boring games yes, but many stay away because they love our country. League should back U.S.," Trump tweeted on Sept. 24, 2017.
    ...NFL attendance and ratings are WAY DOWN. Boring games yes, but many stay away because they love our country. League should back U.S.
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 24, 2017

    His Sunday morning tweet referred to NFL players -- most notably former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick -- who kneel during the National Anthem in protest of police brutality. Trump had made a similar claim during a campaign rally on the Friday before for Sen. Luther Strange in Huntsville, Ala.
    Trump also urged the NFL fire or suspend those players.
    "If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend!" Trump tweeted.
    If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 24, 2017

    We wanted to know if ratings or attendance of NFL games were indeed "way down." We previously rated a similar claim Trump made about CNN’s ratings Pants on Fire.
    Once again, Trump seems to be overstating rating declines, and we found little evidence of their political motivation.
    By the numbers
    We’ll begin by saying that the numbers for 2017 so far are inconclusive.
    Advertising Age media reporter Anthony Crupi told us he estimated a decline of around 9 percent in ratings since last year, although the only window to face a significant decline was the 1 p.m. regional games.
    But we only have full data for the first two weeks of the season — the first of which was likely impacted by Hurricane Irma — making the data set too small to draw any conclusions according to Paulsen, editor in chief of Sports Media Watch. (Paulsen’s professional name is simply Paulsen.)
    Average attendance for 2017 thus far is also down — by 5 percent, while gross attendance is off 8 percent from 2016.
    Trump might be referring to 2016, a year when the NFL saw a significant drop in viewership, although average game attendance increased by 3 percent from 2015 to 2016.
    According to ESPN, NFL game broadcasters saw an average year-on-year drop in television viewership last season of 8 percent. Fox saw the lowest ratings since 2008 and ESPN since 2005.
    But that excluded Thursday Night Football games, which Paulsen said likely would lower the percentage, and alternate viewing platforms.
    "A variety of factors made the comparison versus last year skewed, including streaming on Twitter and a new partner, NBC," ESPN reported.
    A new Nielsen study measuring audiences in bars, restaurants, gyms and other out-of-home venues showed that NFL viewership nearly matched 2015’s numbers. However, they didn’t compute out-of-home numbers for 2015, suggesting there might still be some discrepancy.
    It’s still a modest decline, according to Paulsen, because the NFL’s ratings are usually so strong — the NFL is the most popular televised sports event in the United States. He also pointed out that isolating the NFL made little sense.
    "I think it’s really important to note the NFL is not declining while other leagues are increasing," Paulsen said. "NASCAR ratings are in the cellar right now. The NBA had some of its lowest rated games ever on network television last year … It’s an industry-wide phenomenon and the NFL isn’t immune to it anymore."
    Why the drop?
    Trump spokesman Steven Cheung pointed to a Seton Hall Sports Poll that found that 56 percent of 841 respondents cited players not standing for the national anthem as a reason for last year’s ratings drop.
    But as CNBC pointed out, the poll asked why other people — rather than respondents — aren't watching football. About half the people polled said they either follow sports "not closely" or "not at all," but coverage of Kaepernick’s kneeling was widely covered by the media.
    A similar J.D. Power survey Cheung cited also reported national anthem protests as the main reason NFL fans watched less games last season.
    "Among the 12 percent who watch less (sports), 26 percent of them say national anthem protests are to blame, however those respondents reflect only 3 percent of the full, nationwide sample," the researchers wrote.
    Various pundits criticized the survey results as negligible, pointing out that for every one person turned off by protests, 10 NFL fans tuned in.
    "If a larger share of respondents claimed they watched more NFL, the fact that NFL ratings were actually down last year is good enough reason to discard this survey as meaningless," Patrick Redford wrote in Deadspin.
    Like the Seton Hall survey, the reasons for tuning out were offered as a list for respondents to choose from, so people weren’t necessarily offering the anthem protests on their own, and respondents could provide multiple answers.
    Paulsen said that NFL rating drops aren’t unprecedented, with similar declines in the ‘80s, ‘90s and the first half of the 2000s.
    "It’s only now that people are deciding it’s a political issue, that people are really focusing on it. There’s any number of reasons to believe that what’s happening right now is not necessarily political," Paulsen said, including a loss of interest among younger viewers.
    Our ruling
    Trump said "NFL attendance and ratings are WAY DOWN. Boring games yes, but many stay away because they love our country."
    Ratings were down 8 percent in 2016, but experts said the drop was modest and in line with general ratings for the sports industry. The NFL remains the most watched televised sports event in the United States.
    Ratings in 2017 so far suggest a similar year-on-year drop, but experts say it’s too early to tell, and external factors like Hurricane Irma, which coincided with the season’s first week, may help explain the drop.
    NFL game attendance dropped slightly from 2016 to 2017, and rose from 2015 to 2016.
    As for political motivation, there’s little evidence to suggest people are boycotting the NFL. Most of the professional sports franchises are dealing with declines in popularity.

    We rate this claim Mostly False.

  25. #1325

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Google it, lazybones. It's everywhere.
    I can't find a credible source that agrees with you. Sorry, Trump's twitter is not considered an accurate source of information by any stretch.

  26. #1326

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    Well if politifact tells us that the NFL ratings are fine, then I guess I'm completely wrong!

  27. #1327

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    And just about every other source. Glad you are admitting you are completely wrong!

  28. #1328

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    http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...s_working.html

    It wasn’t typical for NFL players to stand for the national anthem until 2009—before then, it was customary for players to stay in the locker room as the anthem played. A 2015 congressional report revealed that the Department of Defense had paid $5.4 million to NFL teams between 2011 and 2014 to stage on-field patriotic ceremonies; the National Guard shelled out $6.7 million for similar displays between 2013 and 2015.
    Comedy gold. It wasn't even a thing until the DoD started paying the NFL to artificially ramp up the rah-rah jingoistic patriotism.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  29. #1329

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    https://sports.yahoo.com/cbs-ratings...154216596.html

    CBS' ratings go up for Week 3, NFL ratings as whole expected to see increase


  30. #1330

  31. #1331

  32. #1332

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    http://time.com/4953215/robert-muell...-what-we-know/

    It's hard to know what special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation is doing, but it's clear that it's going quickly.
    Experts on independent investigations, including some who have worked with them in the past, say that the former FBI director is moving on an aggressive timeline as he looks into Russian attempts to influence the 2016 election. They say that could help keep it from getting bogged down or off track, like some past investigations.
    Yeah, SO DEAD.
    E: Whoops. Wrong trump thread.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  33. #1333

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    fruck did you even read the article? the article only talks about 1 game. the Sunday night game between two snoozers of teams. Raiders vs Redskins. Most of the other games during the day were up in ratings. But your silly link that you probably didn't even read, only talks about the single game in the evening.

    You trump supporters lap up everything he says as if it was gospel and don't bother to fact check. That's how this loser got into power. Idiots like you who don't have agod clue how to research anything. Moahunter, you're really shining through again.

  34. #1334
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Well if politifact tells us that the NFL ratings are fine, then I guess I'm completely wrong!

    http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/25/nfl-sund...ings-kneeling/

    http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins...bc-1202176141/

    http://www.cleveland.com/entertainme...s_down_sl.html

    Lots of links saying you are not wrong

  35. #1335

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    No I am completely wrong. Somebody here said so.

    NFL ratings have never been better! Networks are not even worried!

  36. #1336

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Well if politifact tells us that the NFL ratings are fine, then I guess I'm completely wrong!

    http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/25/nfl-sund...ings-kneeling/

    http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins...bc-1202176141/

    http://www.cleveland.com/entertainme...s_down_sl.html

    Lots of links saying you are not wrong
    Holy hell, you've proven you can't read either. All three of your links only refer to Sunday nights game, not the rest of the sunday games. 1 game between lackluster teams that never have good tv ratings, mean while, all the other games on Sunday were up. Do you even read the links you provide?

  37. #1337

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    You trump supporters really need to read what your linking before linking it. You've made yourself all look like idiots by showing you can't even read the links you are providing.

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  38. #1338

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    Yeah, the Sunday night NFL game (that bombed in the ratings even harder this week) isn't actually the NFL, guys. The ratings for that game don't count!

  39. #1339

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    you're not making sense, again.

    All other games on Sunday had good ratings. The Sunday Night game between two boring teams was down by 4%.


    Did you know that there's more than 1 NFL game on Sunday?

  40. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Yeah, the Sunday night NFL game (that bombed in the ratings even harder this week) isn't actually the NFL, guys. The ratings for that game don't count!
    Well, they were up against 60 minutes and Oprah!!!. LOL

  41. #1341
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Yeah, the Sunday night NFL game (that bombed in the ratings even harder this week) isn't actually the NFL, guys. The ratings for that game don't count!
    Well, they were up against 60 minutes and Oprah!!!. LOL
    and all of them were up against the ongoing trump watch soap opera on cnn and msnbc and fox...

    and all of them were also up against coverage of the aftermath of consecutive "storms of the century" in texas and florida along with more than 2 million acres of active wildfires in the us giving some of those typical weekend television warriors a few higher priority items in their lives to deal with than parking in front of a screen.

    unless you're going to take the position that even mother nature is conspiring with crooked hillary and little rocket man against the donald, i'm not sure that a blip in nfl football attendance and ratings one way or the other is a particularly good indication of the state of the world. it might however provide one more glimpse into the state of the donald's mind and his ability to politicize and alienate just about anything for the sake of nothing but his own ego.

    if pride really does come before a fall, this one is going to be large enough to register on the richter scale.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  42. #1342

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    Both the NFL and NASCAR have seen declining audiences since about 2008. It's not about players taking a knee or not, it's about the economy and alternate consumption platforms.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  43. #1343

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Both the NFL and NASCAR have seen declining audiences since about 2008.
    That's true.

    However, I don't see how this political controversy is going to help the NFL win over more viewers/attendees.

  44. #1344

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Both the NFL and NASCAR have seen declining audiences since about 2008.
    That's true.

    However, I don't see how this political controversy is going to help the NFL win over more viewers/attendees.
    It will not, but most people will find watching football or basketball much more fun than watching Trump and little Kim try to verbally bully each other with threats of nuclear destruction.

  45. #1345

    Default The politizcization of everything

    Americans don’t begrudge athletes their free-speech rights—see the popularity of Charles Barkley —but disrespecting the national anthem puts partisanship above a symbol of nationhood that thousands have died for. Players who chose to kneel shouldn’t be surprised that fans around the country booed them on Sunday. This is the patriotic sentiment that they are helping Mr. Trump exploit for what he no doubt thinks is his own political advantage.

    American democracy was healthier when politics at the ballpark was limited to fans booing politicians who threw out the first ball—almost as a bipartisan obligation. This showed a healthy skepticism toward the political class. But now the players want to be politicians and use their fame to lecture other Americans, the parsons of the press corps want to make them moral spokesmen, and the President wants to run against the players.

    The losers are the millions of Americans who would rather cheer for their teams on Sunday as a respite from work and the other divisions of American life.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-pol...trending_now_1

  46. #1346

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    ... as opposed to the millions of US citizens who lose due to the perpetual stream of lies and divisive inanities from their so-called president. Yeah, them fricken athletes, I tell ya ...

    But don't let the root cause get in the way.

  47. #1347

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    most people will find watching football or basketball much more fun than watching Trump and little Kim try to verbally bully each other with threats of nuclear destruction.
    I think this is the best show on TV - much more engaging than sports. I never thought they could top season 1, but they did! The show is a lot more fun if you root for the villain.

  48. #1348

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    But don't let the root cause get in the way.
    So if Obama was in power and Republican athletes were bending on their knees, you would be ok with it? Its just stupid, and the athletes doing this are stupid. If they want to be politicians, run for politics. Until then, show some respect to your nation (regardless of who the president is and what you think of him / her).

  49. #1349

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    Republican athletes? There was all but one athlete in the NFL this weekend that didn't bend their knee or raise the fist in solidarity. The message they are trying to get across is that they are united together, despite their allegiance to one party or the other. They are dedicated to being a team and supporting each other, and value their rights to expression.


    What I don't understand is how its okay to protest in Charlottesville's - but NFL athletes can't protest themselves?

  50. #1350

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    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...the-new-uppity
    Yet the belief endures, from Armstrong’s time and before, that visible, affluent African-American entertainers are obliged to adopt a pose of ceaseless gratitude—appreciation for the waiver that spared them the low status of so many others of their kind. Stevie Wonder began a performance in Central Park last night by taking a knee, prompting Congressman Joe Walsh to tweet that Wonder was “another ungrateful black multi-millionaire.” Ungrateful is the new uppity. Trump’s supporters, by a twenty-four-point margin, agree with the idea that most Americans have not got as much as they deserve—though they overwhelmingly withhold the right to that sentiment from African-Americans. Thus, the wonder is not the unhinged behavior of this weekend but rather that it took Trump so long to exploit a target as rich in potential racial resentment as wealthy black athletes who have the temerity to believe in the First Amendment.
    Emphasis mine.

    Evidently the First Amendment is just for white folks with tiki torches. Those rich athletes should just shut up & do as they're told.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  51. #1351

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    What I don't understand is how its okay to protest in Charlottesville's - but NFL athletes can't protest themselves?
    Who said they can't protest? They can protest just like anyone can. But during the national anthem isn't the time or the place. I don't watch a sports game to watch a political protest during the anthem, even if it were something I agreed with. Its endless, there is enough politics in life without putting it before a sports match.

  52. #1352

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    Rather than taking a knee, most NFL players opted for a show of unity Sunday, locking arms ahead of their games amid criticism from President Trump who slammed players opting to protest during the national anthem.

    Still, plenty opted to kneel during "The Star-Spangled Banner," with the Baltimore Ravens' Terrell Suggs and Tampa Bay Buccaneers' Mike Evans among the stars following the lead of former pro quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who pioneered the anthem protests last year over what he was said was social and racial injustice.
    Kaepernick, who has sat and knelt during the anthem, has said he refused to honor a song or "show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." He also referenced the shootings of black men by police as one of reasons for his stance. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way," he told NFL Media. "There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."





    Ahead of a Sunday morning game in London and afternoon games, players from several teams, including the New England Patriots, Jacksonville Jaguars, Cleveland Browns, the Denver Broncos and the Miami Dolphins, took knees during the anthem. With the exception of one player, the Pittsburgh Steelers didn't even take the field until the anthem was over. The Seattle Seahawks and Tennessee Titans also chose not to take the field for the national anthem.
    In Sunday morning tweets, Trump renewed his criticism of the protests, slamming the league's ratings and saying players should be fired or suspended for such protests. On Saturday, he called for NFL owners to fire any "son of a *****" who "disrespects our flag."
    "What you just saw was a variety of responses with the theme of unity," an NFL front office source told CNN. "All across the league, owners, coaches and players came together to decide what was best for them."
    The source added, "If Trump thought he could divide the NFL, he was wrong."
    Following Sunday's 1 p.m. kickoffs, Trump tweeted that he approved of players locking arms, saying it represented "great solidarity" for the country.
    Here's who's been taking a stand Sunday:
    Washington Redskins vs. Oakland Raiders


    Member of the Washington Redskins stand arm-in-arm during national anthem before a game against the Oakland Raiders.




    Redskins players, including quarterback Kirk Cousins and defensive back Josh Norman, and owner Dan Snyder stood arm-in-arm. Several Redskins also knelt.
    Across FedEx Field, a number of Raiders sat with their arms locked before the prime time game.
    "Football has always served as the great unifier, bringing people together to celebrate the values of courage, commitment and achievement," the Redskins said.
    NBC's Michele Tafoya said the Raiders head coach, Jack Del Rio, told her the team wanted to stay in the locker room during the anthem but couldn't. The team would have forfeited the coin toss and be in danger of a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, she said.
    Tafoya said 12-year veteran Vernon Davis, a tight end with the Redskins, said he would visit the White House if he was invited, and he would tell the President that "we love the flag. Let's focus on solutions rather than attack those protesting."
    Cincinnati Bengals vs. Green Bay Packers


    Green Bay Packers players, including quarterback Aaron Rodgers, stand with arms locked during the national anthem before their game against the Cincinnati Bengals.




    Packers starting quarterback Aaron Rogers and Bengals starting quarterback Andy Dalton were among the players on both teams who stood and locked their arms on their sidelines. Three Packers players also sat during the national anthem.
    Kansas City Chiefs vs. Los Angeles Chargers


    Members off the Los Angeles Chargers lock arms in protest before a football game against the Kansas City Chiefs.




    A number of Chargers players stood with their arms interlocked and others sat. Some Chiefs players knelt, including linebacker Justin Houston who knelt towards the players bench
    "I believe in honoring the American flag and supporting all of those who sacrifices protect the many freedoms we have in this country, including the right to have differences of opinion," Chiefs Chairman and CEO Clark Hunt said in a statement.
    Seattle Seahawks vs. Tennessee Titans


    An empty Tennessee Titans bench during the national anthem for their game with the Seahawks.




    The Seattle Seahawks and Tennessee Titans remained in their locker rooms during the national anthem.
    "The players jointly decided this was the best course of action. Our commitment to the military and our community is resolute and the absence of our team for the national anthem shouldn't be misconstrued as unpatriotic," the Titans organization said in a statement.
    The Seahawks said the team made the decision together.
    "We will not stand for the injustice that has plagued people of color in this country. Out of love for our country and in honor of the sacrifices made on our behalf, we unite to oppose those that would deny our most basic freedoms," the Seahawks players said in the statement.
    Titans cheerleaders were seen standing on the sidelines with hands over their hearts, like many fans in the stands.
    Meghan Linsey, a Nashville singer and runner-up on NBC's The Voice," sang the national anthem. On the last note, Linsey and her guitarist took a knee.
    Cleveland Browns vs. Indianapolis Colts


    Cleveland Browns players take a knee and join arms during a game against the Indianapolis Colts.




    Several Browns players locked arms. Some stood, while others knelt on the sideline. Colts players were also locked arm-in-arm while they stood or took a knee.
    New Orleans Saints vs. Carolina Panthers


    New Orleans Saints players sit on the bench during the national anthem before a game against the Carolina Panthers.




    Several Saints players sat on the bench or knelt while others stood. Panthers starting quarterback Cam Newton and his teammates stood during the anthem.
    There was swift reaction to the actions of some Saints players. A restaurant in Chalmette, Louisiana, near New Orleans, refused to show the Saints game on television.
    "Some of our local players chose to sit during the National Anthem, which will not be supported or praised at WOW," WOW Cafe & Wingery of St. Bernard wrote on its Facebook page.
    Denver Broncos vs. Buffalo Bills


    Denver Broncos Von Miller, left, and Brandon Marshall take a knee during the anthem before their game.




    Five-time Pro Bowl selection Von Miller was among several Broncos players who knelt, while Garett Bolles and Virgil Green stood with their fists in the air.
    Multiple Buffalo Bills players stood with their arms around each other, while some players knelt with their arms interlocked. Some of those who stood held the shoulders of other players.
    Bills running back LeSean McCoy stretched during the national anthem, according to local media reports.
    "I can't stand and support something where our leader of this country is ... acting like a jerk, angry and upset about NFL players protesting in a peaceful manner," McCoy said after the game, CNN affiliate WKBW reported.
    New England Patriots


    Members of the New England Patriots kneel before a game against the Houston Texans.




    While most players from both teams, Tom Brady among them, opted to lock arms, more than a dozen Patriots -- including running back James White, wide receiver Brandin Cooks and Pro Bowl cornerback Stephon Gilmore -- took knees.
    In the owner's suite above them, Patriots owner Robert Kraft stood with his hand over his heart.
    Miami Dolphins vs. New York Jets


    Wide receiver Jarvis Landry stands among his kneeling Dolphins teammates Sunday.




    Jets head coach Todd Bowles and Dolphins owner Steve Ross both joined their teams, arms interlocked, before Sunday's AFC East showdown.
    On the Dolphins sideline, wide receiver Jarvis Landry stood during the anthem but locked arms with safety Maurice Smith and tight end Julius Thomas, both of whom knelt.
    Philadelphia Eagles


    Philadelphia Eagles owner Jeff Lurie joins his players for the national anthem.




    As Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins tweeted before the game, Philadelphia players locked their arms in unity. As a retired African-American serviceman, Petty Officer 1st Class Generald Wilson, belted out the anthem, Eagles CEO Jeff Lurie joined the team, locking arms with Jenkins on the sideline. Linebacker Mychal Kendricks opted not to join his team and stood off to the side during the anthem.
    "Having spoken with our players, I can attest to the great respect they have for the national anthem and all it represents," Lurie wrote. "We ... firmly believe that in this difficult time of division and conflict, it is more important than ever for football to be a great unifier."
    Atlanta Falcons vs. Detroit Lions


    Rico LaVelle closed out the national anthem on one knee Sunday.




    Team owners Arthur Blank of the Falcons and Martha Firestone Ford of the Lions joined their teams on the sidelines, locking arms with their players. Starting running back Ameer Abdullah was among at least eight LIons players taking a knee during the anthem.
    Detroit singer Rico Lavelle closed out his rendition of the anthem by taking a knee and holding his microphone aloft in his fist.
    Tampa Bay Buccaneers vs. Minnesota Vikings


    Wide receivers DeSean Jackson, forefront, and Mike Evans take a knee before Sunday's game.




    While both teams locked arms along the sidelines, Buccaneers star wide receiver Mike Evans and his counterpart DeSean Jackson knelt with their hands over their hearts. Coach Dirk Kover stood with his hand over his heart. The crowd applauded once "The Star-Spangled Banner" concluded.
    Pittsburgh Steelers


    Steeler and ex-Army Ranger Alejandro Villanueva stands outside the tunnel during the national anthem.




    As coach Mike Tomlin promised, the Steelers didn't take the field for the national anthem. But offensive lineman Alejandro Villanueva, a former captain in the Army and ex-Ranger who did three tours in Afghanistan, stood in the tunnel, hand over heart, as the anthem played.
    Tomlin had said before the game his squad would remain in the locker room.
    Baltimore Ravens vs. Jacksonville Jaguars


    Retired Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis, in a sportcoat, joined his former team during Sunday's protest.




    Six-time Pro Bowler and Super Bowl champ Suggs was atop the list of Ravens players taking a knee before the game in London. Alongside him was retired Ravens legend Lewis, who locked arms with wide receiver Mike Wallace and linebacker C.J. Mosley.
    Other coaches and players locked arms during the anthem.
    At least a dozen Jaguars took knees during the anthem, including defensive standouts Calais Campbell and Jalen Ramsey, as well as their No. 4 draft pick, running back Leonard Fournette.

    Team owner Shad Khan joined his players in protest Sunday.




    The majority of players locked arms, as did the coaching staff and Pakistani-American team owner Shad Khan, who said in a statement that he met with team captains prior to the game to express his support.
    "Our team and the National Football League reflects our nation, with diversity coming in many forms -- race, faith, our views and our goals," he said. "We have a lot of work to do, and we can do it, but the comments by the President make it harder. That's why it was important for us, and personally for me, to show the world that even if we may differ at times, we can and should be united in the effort to become better as people and a nation."



    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/24/us/nfl...sts/index.html

  53. #1353

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Who said they can't protest? They can protest just like anyone can. But during the national anthem isn't the time or the place.
    Why not? Isn't disruption inherently part of the process of protesting? Should they just protest at home, in a closet, in the dark, where nobody can see them?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  54. #1354

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    NBA All-Star LeBron James spoke to the press today following Sunday's protests around the NFL, in which many players took a knee during the national anthem in support of equality.
    "It’s powerful what all these athletes are doing," James said. "It's not about the disrespect of our flag and the military that’s made this world free."
    Read: Tom Brady speaks out against Trump's 'divisive' comments on players taking a knee
    Related: Trump says issue of NFL players kneeling 'has nothing to do with race'
    He added: "It's about equality."
    The peaceful protests that the Cleveland Cavaliers star was referring to took place on Sunday, after President Donald Trump called for the NFL to "fire or suspend" those who kneel during "The Star-Spangled Banner."
    "If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend!" Trump tweeted on Sunday, which followed similar comments he made Friday in Huntsville, Alabama.
    James commented on the support that NFL players got not only from teammates but from team owners as well, some of whom also took the field Sunday in solidarity. He said what Trump said over the weekend "frustrated me."
    "He used the sports platform to divide us. Sports is so amazing, what sports can do for everyone, no matter shape, size, race; brings people together like no other. I'm not going to let one individual no matter the power, the impact he or she should have ever use sport as a platform to divide us," he said. "The people run this country, not one person. And damn sure not him."
    And while James hasn't considered taking a knee when the NBA's regular season starts up again in a couple of weeks, he said he will continue to speak out and educate the people of Ohio.
    "I’m doing OK for myself, my family is doing OK," he said. "Even if we weren’t doing OK financially, I'd still be trying to find a way to inspire the youth. ... Personally, my voice is more important than my knee."
    But James didn't take anything away from the movement that former 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick started last pre-season, when he was the first to take a knee during the national anthem. In fact, he wishes he could hire Kaepernick.
    "I salute Colin for being as powerful as he was," he said. "I wish I owned an NFL team right now. I’d sign him today."

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/lebron-jame...ry?id=50081105

  55. #1355

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Who said they can't protest? They can protest just like anyone can. But during the national anthem isn't the time or the place.
    Why not? Isn't disruption inherently part of the process of protesting? Should they just protest at home, in a closet, in the dark, where nobody can see them?
    I wouldn't pay money to watch a bunch of millionares disrespecting a national anthem - but if you want to, all credit to you. This turns me off, and per the polls, its turning American's off too. All its doing is pitting Democrats against Republicans - that's not what I go to a sports game to watch.

    Americans don’t begrudge athletes their free-speech rights—see the popularity of Charles Barkley —but disrespecting the national anthem puts partisanship above a symbol of nationhood that thousands have died for. Players who chose to kneel shouldn’t be surprised that fans around the country booed them on Sunday. This is the patriotic sentiment that they are helping Mr. Trump exploit for what he no doubt thinks is his own political advantage.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-pol...trending_now_1
    Last edited by moahunter; Yesterday at 02:51 PM.

  56. #1356

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    Per what polls? There was only one game that had lower tv viewership and that was for the Raiders/Redskins, and the viewership wasn't lower because Trump started something. It was because no one cares about the raiders or the redskins.


    All the other games yesterday were average or higher than average viewership. Did you miss all the links I posted? Did you not read the links you posted?

  57. #1357

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Who said they can't protest? They can protest just like anyone can. But during the national anthem isn't the time or the place.
    Maybe if Trump didn't offend every American who fought for equality, civil rights and defended their country against racist Nazis. Trump should have taken a knee at Charleston and righting some wrongs, the players would not have to protest his actions.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  58. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    most people will find watching football or basketball much more fun than watching Trump and little Kim try to verbally bully each other with threats of nuclear destruction.
    I think this is the best show on TV - much more engaging than sports. I never thought they could top season 1, but they did! The show is a lot more fun if you root for the villain.
    how can you root for either of them without rooting for a villain?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  59. #1359

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    WWII veteran, 97, kneels in support of protesting athletes







    A 97-year-old World War II veteran from Missouri has kneeled in support of protesting NFL players, saying the athletes “have every right to protest.”
    The picture of John Middlemas on one knee and supporting the athletes has become a viral social media sensation.
    The vet’s photo was taken and posted with the #TakeAKnee hashtag by his grandson, Brennan Gilmore, who quoted his 97-year-old grandfather saying, “Those kids have every right to protest.”


    Middlemas has long fought for social justice, supported the civil rights movement and working alongside black servicemen when in the military, the Springfield News-Leaderreported.
    My grandpa is a 97 year-old WWII vet & Missouri farmer who wanted to join w/ those who #TakeaKnee: "those kids have every right to protest." pic.twitter.com/LurCj7SLUB
    — Brennan Gilmore (@brennanmgilmore) September 24, 2017

    "I wanted to communicate what I always told to my grandkids and everybody else," Middlemas told the publication about his support for the athletes. "When they'd go to bed at night, we'd tell the kids we wanted to be like Jesus."
    “I'm trying to say that you have to love everybody," he added. “We don't kill people. We want to make people live."

    The controversy over athletes taking a knee has reached its peak on Sunday following President Trump’s attacks on those kneeling during the national anthem.
    “If a player wants the privilege of making millions of dollars in the NFL, or other leagues, he or she should not be allowed to disrespect our Great American Flag (or Country) and should stand for the National Anthem,” Trump tweeted Saturday.
    “If not, YOU'RE FIRED. Find something else to do!” he added.
    If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 24, 2017

    On Sunday, the president doubled-down on the issue, tweeting: “If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend!
    “NFL attendance and ratings are WAY DOWN. Boring games yes, but many stay away because they love our country. League should back U.S.”
    Veterans and family members of U.S. servicemen who support the movement said they are acting out of love to the country.
    “My hand was over my heart because I love this country and I have family members, including my father, who bled for this country, and who continue to serve,” Bruce Maxwell, Oakland A’s rookie catcher and the first MLB player to take a knee during the anthem, told the San Francisco Chronicle on Sunday.
    “I am and forever will be an American citizen and grateful to be here, but my kneeling is what's getting the attention, and I'm kneeling for the people who don't have a voice.”

  60. #1360

    Default NFL stars are falling into Donald Trump’s trap

    Trump does this all the time — whether by design or just gut instinct — and his opponents always fall into the trap.

    He picks an issue, identifies a popular position, then takes that position to its extreme.

    For example, most people are against illegal immigration. Trump turned that into “we’re going to build a wall, and Mexico is going to pay for it”.

    Everyone, including Trump’s own supporters, knows Mexico isn’t going to pay for the wall. That was never the point. Here’s the real point: by taking an inflammatory position, Trump both signals to his fans that he is serious about the issue and infuriates his opponents, causing them to lash out, overreach and alienate the people they need to win over to beat him.

    He is essentially the world’s most successful troll.

    Trump’s fight with the NFL follows this formula perfectly. Polling shows 72 per cent of Americans do not support players protesting by kneeling during the anthem. They feel it is disrespectful and unpatriotic. Instinctively, they are on Trump’s side of the argument.
    http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-...7966945b634ab2

  61. #1361

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    I can find polls that disagree with your polls. http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpo...ling-protests/ but what ever. Polls are just that.

  62. #1362

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    Trump’s NFL tirade shows the nation who he really is: A white supremacist

    Donald Trump is the president America deserves.
    He’s forcing the country to take the mask off, to confront its systemically oppressive ways, to deal with the fact that xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, able-ism, anti-Semitism, Islamaphobia and, yes, racism, are real. Say it with me: Racism is real.
    He spoke in Alabama Friday night, supposedly for a rally to support Sen. Luther Strange in the state’s Republican primary. But then he decided to target black men advocating for equality and justice, to make their erasure at least as important as North Korea and American health care. He only added further proof to a truth everyone needs to stop denying.

    “Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a ***** off the field right now. Out! He’s fired. He’s fired!’” said Trump, the president of the United States of America.

    He just disrespected the mamas of former 49er Colin Kaepernick, Chiefs cornerback Marcus Peters and so many more men who’ve been raising their fists, kneeling and sitting out “The Star-Spangled Banner” because they want their flag and the country’s anthem to actually live up to the freedom they symbolize. But he called some of those neo-Nazis terrorizing Charlottesville “very fine people.” What did we expect?

    ESPN anchor Jemele Hill wasn’t lying when she tweeted about Trump, and writer Ta-Nehisi Coates brilliantly broke it down, too: Donald Trump is a white supremacist.
    http://www.kansascity.com/living/liv...175086291.html
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  63. #1363

  64. #1364

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I can find polls that disagree with your polls. http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpo...ling-protests/ but what ever. Polls are just that.
    Of course you can - left wing media will have polls showing most Americans don't care or support the players, neutral media will show the opposite. At the end of the day though, what is happening is divisive, even in the NFL only turns off 10% of its fans, that's a huge hit. Legislators in some states like Louisiana are even proposing now to cut off state aid and tax dollars to the teams. Its quite interesting, a year ago all the team owners were in anger at the player who was protesting during the anthem - that player was blacklisted. But now they see a media circus opportunity. It will back fire on them if they don't put the fire out soon.

  65. #1365

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    neutral media will show the opposite? You mean right wing media.

  66. #1366

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    Haha. Cato is left-leaning? Better tell the Koch Bros.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  67. #1367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    But don't let the root cause get in the way.
    So if Obama was in power and Republican athletes were bending on their knees, you would be ok with it? Its just stupid, and the athletes doing this are stupid. If they want to be politicians, run for politics. Until then, show some respect to your nation (regardless of who the president is and what you think of him / her).
    Oh, dear. So much "stupid"-ness.

    So, an athlete is either Republican or Democrat, and must be a Democrat if so demonstrating? So, being an athlete or president, and being either Republican or Democrat makes a difference as to whether such a demonstration is acceptable? So, such a demonstration should be limited based on one's profession? So, determination of whether a demonstration is respectful to one's nation should be based on what you think is acceptable?

    Perhaps you should simply be thankful that you reside in a country where lawful expression of opinion isn't determined by an individual with such a narrow definition of respectful, lest it be different than yours.

    Dumb, de-dumb dumb ...


    PS: Time to ditch your partisan binoculars. Very little is as black and white as you tend to portray. Just a suggestion.

  68. #1368

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post

    Perhaps you should simply be thankful that you reside in a country where lawful expression of opinion isn't determined by an individual with such a narrow definition of respectful, lest it be different than yours.
    If a bunch of NHL players stand on one knee during the anthem to protest against Trudeau, I will be offended. That's the difference between me and you, if it suits your politics you think its great, but if it doesn't match your politics, you hate it. I just respect what an anthem is, and don't want political crap from the left or right ******* it up.

  69. #1369

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    true north strong and free.

    Free. Free to protest. Free to not protest. Free to be offended, Free to not be offended. Free to express yourself how you feel free to do in your own manner.

    Free.

  70. #1370

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    ^^ I cannot tell if you are just continuing to troll or are simply that daft.

    ... if it suits your politics you think its great, but if it doesn't match your politics, you hate it ...
    My politics? Sez who? Based on what?

    ... I just respect what an anthem is, and don't want political crap from the left or right ******* it up.
    Yet the subjective political profiling is all yours. Give it up, already.

    Dumb, de-dumb, dumb, DUMMMMB.

  71. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post

    Perhaps you should simply be thankful that you reside in a country where lawful expression of opinion isn't determined by an individual with such a narrow definition of respectful, lest it be different than yours.
    If a bunch of NHL players stand on one knee during the anthem to protest against Trudeau, I will be offended. That's the difference between me and you, if it suits your politics you think its great, but if it doesn't match your politics, you hate it. I just respect what an anthem is, and don't want political crap from the left or right ******* it up.
    this isn't about politics. the only person who made it political was the donald.

    the real crime here is that what is going on today is still going on five decades after john carlos and tommie smith stood on the podium at the olympics in mexico making the same protest for the same reasons in 1968.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  72. #1372
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    At least 6 White House Advisors used Private Email accounts for White House matters. Which according to some here is literally the worst crime to commit. Uh oh.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/private-email-trump-kushner-bannon.html?action=Click&contentCollection=Breakin gNews&contentID=65874496&pgtype=Homepage&_r=0

  73. #1373

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    At least 6 White House Advisors used Private Email accounts for White House matters. Which according to some here is literally the worst crime to commit. Uh oh.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/politics/private-email-trump-kushner-bannon.html?action=Click&contentCollection=Breakin gNews&contentID=65874496&pgtype=Homepage&_r=0
    I feel the urge to chant - lock them up, lock them up, lock them up !!!

  74. #1374

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    No, it is OK with Trump if his team does something illegal. In fact he encourages it by his own actions. Nothing sticks to Trump and then he can resort to Presidential pardons. ..
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  75. #1375

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    Mr. Trump.

    Are you tired of all the losing you have done? Haven't seen any winning yet?
    A Divider, Not a Uniter, Trump Widens the Breach
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/2...isiveness.html
    By PETER BAKER
    SEPTEMBER 24, 2017
    WASHINGTON — Over the course of just 17 hours this weekend, President Trump assailed John McCain, Chuck Schumer, Stephen Curry, the National Football League, Roger Goodell, Iran and Kim Jong-un — the “Little Rocket Man.” And that was on his day off.

    While football players knelt, locked arms or stayed in their locker rooms during the national anthem in protest on Sunday, any notion that Mr. Trump may soften his edge, even under the discipline of a new chief of staff, seemed fanciful. While he has restrained himself for brief stretches, his penchant for punching eventually reasserts itself.

    Never in modern times has an occupant of the Oval Office seemed to reject so thoroughly the nostrum that a president’s duty is to bring the country together. Relentlessly pugnacious, energized by a fight, unwilling to let any slight go unanswered, Mr. Trump has made himself America’s apostle of anger, its deacon of divisiveness.

    His denunciation of what he called unpatriotic sports stars protesting racial injustice by not standing for the national anthem clearly cheered supporters at a rally in Huntsville, Ala., on Friday. For his admirers, his attacks on entitled elites can be bracing and invigorating, finally giving voice to grievances they consider long ignored. Whether by design or not, they also distract from other matters, in this case another looming legislative debacle as his health care bill faces defeat in the Senate.
    The tyrannical man child throws a tantrum whenever someone defy's him. What a freaking baby.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; Today at 05:10 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  76. #1376
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    Just play the anthem before players come out on the field and stop all this bs

  77. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post

    Perhaps you should simply be thankful that you reside in a country where lawful expression of opinion isn't determined by an individual with such a narrow definition of respectful, lest it be different than yours.
    If a bunch of NHL players stand on one knee during the anthem to protest against Trudeau, I will be offended. That's the difference between me and you, if it suits your politics you think its great, but if it doesn't match your politics, you hate it. I just respect what an anthem is, and don't want political crap from the left or right ******* it up.
    Question for you, moa, do you know WHY they are taking a knee during the anthem?
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  78. #1378

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Just play the anthem before players come out on the field and stop all this bs
    Which is what was done prior to 2009.

  79. #1379

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    Trust Trump to bring something from obscurity to the spotlight. People are now kneeling/being absent when "The Star-Spangled Banner" in defiance of Trump, an attention hog, that think it's OK to call people names, and try to exert his presidential power in completely unrelated matters. The fact that people know relate USA to Donald Trump is "a bad thing, a very bad thing."

    BTW maybe it's my culture but the act of kneeling is in no way disrespectful to me, it's really more of a humbling act. Maybe the players aren't standing tall and proud but still better than just sitting there.

  80. #1380

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Question for you, moa, do you know WHY they are taking a knee during the anthem?
    I expect each individual players has their own reasons / interpretation of why they are doing it - a lot of them are probably just sheep - doing it because the guy next to them is doing it. Its quite hypocritical that the same GM's who were critical of the original player who did this, are now themselves taking part.

  81. #1381

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    ^ might have something to do with the way Trump attacked. The league is coming to defense of its own. United, together, not divided by his attack... and aside from that Each player has the right to expression.

  82. #1382

    Default

    Yeah. You know. Team spirit, one for all and all for one. Protests start with one person. Rosa Parks was one example. She would not sit on the segregated section of the bus. She was arrested and walked to work. She was fired from her job and recieved numerous death threats. Thousands followed in her footsteps in defiance of segregation and Jim Crow laws.

    This is not an uncommon protest and I would not be surprised that in a short time, a million people of all color and background, will March on Capital Hill and bend their knee in defiance of Trump the unruly Emperor.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  83. #1383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    Question for you, moa, do you know WHY they are taking a knee during the anthem?
    I expect each individual players has their own reasons / interpretation of why they are doing it - a lot of them are probably just sheep - doing it because the guy next to them is doing it. Its quite hypocritical that the same GM's who were critical of the original player who did this, are now themselves taking part.
    Moa,

    Why don't you stand in front of an NFL team bending on one knee and call them a bunch of sheep.

    New Zealand mincemeat anyone?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  84. #1384

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Why don't you stand in front of an NFL team bending on one knee and call them a bunch of sheep.
    You don't understand or appreciate sheep the way kiwis do


  85. #1385

    Default

    I do appreciate them as much as Cooch does...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  86. #1386
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Default

    The fans at these games are booing. I wonder how long this will go on for?

  87. #1387

    Default

    ^Murray Ball smiled in his grave.


  88. #1388

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    The fans at these games are booing. I wonder how long this will go on for?
    What games are you watching? I'm guessing you haven't watched any at all. The majority of fans weren't booing. Find a different source outside of Trump's twitter, which has never been factually correct. Even his own staffers roll their eyes when he tweets. You should too, gullible.

  89. #1389
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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  90. #1390

  91. #1391

    Default

    Ya, a few people booed. They expressed their rights to show their displeasure. Much like the players are showing their displeasure with Trump (who gets booed everywhere he goes that isn't a rally).

    NFL Fans have a right to express themselves
    NFL Players have a right to express themselves.

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