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Thread: Trump - misc

  1. #501
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    From Seth Abramson, an attorney on Twitter. I find his posts to be long, but interesting, as he approaches most things from a legal standpoint:

    The ratio of Trump-Russia thinkpieces to breaking Trump-Russia news has reached the point where it's clear media knows where this is headed.
    I've scoured long essays in Vanity Fair, The New Yorker, &c for news but found only an implicit acknowledgment this will take Trump down.
    It's easy to forget that, if you were saying 90 days ago what all mainstream media is saying now, they attacked rather than credited you.
    Now one sees the signs of change everywhere: for instance Peter King (R-NY) saying he wants to talk to Trump's secretary. *Very* telling.
    A CNN analyst—Phil Mudd—being willing to say on national TV that if Manafort were smart, he'd flee the United States and never come back.
    Trump's attorney frantically making legal arguments (including a proposed Motion to Suppress) over an FBI raid of *Paul Manafort's* home.
    I guess what I'm saying is that the mainstream media has caught up to those who've been writing/researching Trump-Russia for many months.
    We're in a space—what I called the "long Phase 2" of a 10-phase process—and the question is if Trump will fill the gap with nuclear war.
    But in a way these non-news-making thinkpieces are a kind of news—they confirm the argument over "if" is over. Now it's all about "when."
    A *month* ago we crossed the key 50% threshold on the "Trump acted illegally/unethically with Russia" question.
    Media is naturally, and perhaps wisely, a bit more conservative than Americans when it comes to adopting/accepting new metanarratives.
    But I think the "invisible news" of the week is a shift in conventional wisdom, which now says Trump colluded and it will take him down.
    The timeline to impeachment I've offered, having investigated/tried criminal cases: 12 to 18 months from May 17 (Mueller's appointment).
    That suggests 9 to 15 months left. But as indictments first arrive in the middle of Phase 2, we won't have to wait as long for those.
    Phases 3 through 10 (see prior thread) should take 6 to 9 months, so we're just 90 to 180 days from seeing a major spate of indictments.
    But what I get asked about most isn't a spate but the *first* publicly revealed indictments—which now seem to be just 30 to 60 days off.
    Indications are that the first indictment will be either Flynn (Making False Statements), Manafort (Money Laundering) or Kushner (FARA).
    Or an indictment could stem from the investigation—e.g. a Perjury, Obstruction, or Destruction of Evidence charge (Page, Manafort, Jr.).
    Note that the case against *Trump* for Obstruction is likely now *stronger* than *any other case* the FBI has—but it *won't* come first.
    Big fish don't come first unless you fear they'll flee—and Trump can't. That's why indictments (or "referrals") on Trump are in Phase 3.
    So the reason for this week's shift in Big Media—which *savaged* Russia freelancers for *months*—is simple: there *will* be indictments.
    I want to repeat that: it is now BEYOND QUESTION there will be indictments in the Trump-Russia scandal. And that has *big* implications.
    Namely, federal prison sentences are habitually MUCH longer than commensurate-crime state-level sentences. So Trump aides WILL squawk.
    You will see powerful D.C. operatives with a ton of dirt on Trump willing to offer anything they can on Trump to reduce their sentences.
    We *already saw that* from Flynn *months* ago—a desperate bid to sell out higher-ups for the sake of a reduced federal prison sentence.
    Truth is, *that* was the moment seasoned attorneys knew Trump was done. Trump's own lawlessness has since confirmed it many times over.
    I used to have clients of whom I *knew* if all their business were known, they'd be chargeable for countless crimes—such a man is Trump.
    So when folks start rolling on Trump they WILL have crimes to speak of—that's 100% clear to anyone who gets the criminal justice system.
    That's why I haven't been talking about "if" for awhile—and why media is likewise moving hard toward "when." It's all *timeline*, now.
    Trump knows it—or at least his attorneys do. It's all about how long he can hang on for. That's why North Korea is just a play for time.
    Trump has one play left, long-term: to convince Republicans that the 2018 mid-terms should be the referendum on him, not an impeachment.
    But to get to the beginning of the mid-term election season—given the Phase 2/Phase 3 timeline I've laid out—he needs to buy some time.
    @maddow notes the last time we had "DPRK nuke miniaturization" news, a) it was false, and b) the Obama Administration didn't freak out.
    Trump's done the opposite—taken one agency's intel, reported via unclear sourcing in WP, and turned it into *a run-up to World War III*.
    But when a president plays like it's nearly World War III, it's a fait accompli—because he's the president—that it *becomes* just that.
    So the North Korea standoff is both a *serious* crisis *and* a transparent attempt—by a POTUS who will be impeached—to buy himself time.
    That's a *very* dangerous combination because—and we should all really *consider* this—Trump has *much less to lose* than Kim does here.
    Political analysts seeking to game this out should consider that Kim may be seeking to act "rationally" against an irrational adversary.
    So the danger may not be Trump's harrowingly bad temperament and skills, but that his presidency is over already and he can't accept it.
    Media must move FAST from "if" to "when" to "how"—as in "how" does America lawfully and peacefully extricate itself from this man. {end}
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  2. #502

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    Here's the memo that blew up the National Security Council
    http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...council-2017-8

    The memo at the heart of the latest blowup at the National Security Council paints a dark picture of media, academics, the “deep state,” and other enemies allegedly working to subvert U.S. President Donald Trump, according to a copy of the document obtained by Foreign Policy.

    The seven-page document, which eventually landed on the president’s desk, precipitated a crisis that led to the departure of several high-level NSC officials tied to former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn. The author of the memo, Rich Higgins, who was in the strategic planning office at the NSC, was among those recently pushed out.

    The full memo, dated May 2017, is titled “POTUS & Political Warfare.” It provides a sweeping, if at times conspiratorial, view of what it describes as a multi-pronged attack on the Trump White House.


    Trump is being attacked, the memo says, because he represents “an existential threat to cultural Marxist memes that dominate the prevailing cultural narrative.” Those threatened by Trump include “‘deep state’ actors, globalists, bankers, Islamists, and establishment Republicans.”


    The memo is part of a broader political struggle inside the White House between current National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster and alt-right operatives with a nationalist worldview who believe the Army general and his crew are subverting the president’s agenda.


    Though not called out by name, McMaster was among those described in the document as working against Trump, according to a source with firsthand knowledge of the memo and the events. Higgins, the author, is widely regarded as a Flynn loyalist who dislikes McMaster and his team.
    Everybody in the White House is stabbing each other in the back.

    Sounds like a scene from...

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  3. #503

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    Yes, the Wall Street Journal is trying to figure out what the most likely way to profit in a an all out nuclear war.



    Meanwhile, Trump is tweeting pictures of bombers and using the hastag #FightTonight

    Yeah, that won't be taken as anything more than brainless rhetoric by North Korea


  4. #504

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    I don't think it does any harm to remind North Korea what it would face if they chose to strike the United States or its territories. Even without the air power, the USA can launch missiles from submarines that can strike land targets with pinpoint accuracy. A single Ohio-class submarine has more than enough firepower to completely and totally destroy everything North Korea, and at any given time there are probably 3 of them actively circling around the Korean peninsula.

  5. #505

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I don't think it does any harm to remind North Korea what it would face if they chose to strike the United States or its territories. Even without the air power, the USA can launch missiles from submarines that can strike land targets with pinpoint accuracy. A single Ohio-class submarine has more than enough firepower to completely and totally destroy everything North Korea, and at any given time there are probably 3 of them actively circling around the Korean peninsula.
    but everyone knows that. They know that. They've long known that. Nothing threatening the US Presidents have ever said would have changed that knowledge that they are vastly outgunned and live or die at the whim of the US.

    So... forever circling around the same discussion totally leaves out what North Korea would have done knowing that their country could be nuked with or without warning. That's the question.

  6. #506

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    North Korea - "What? The United States has nuclear weapons and the largest military in the history of the world? Why didn't anyone tell me that??"

    It's not like the US is shy about showing off their military muscle.

  7. #507

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    Geez now he's mouthing off at Venezuela:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1AR2GR

    He must be feeling really threatened by something.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  8. #508

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    Robert Mueller and the grand jury. Just wait when the subpoenas start being delivered to the White House.

    Mueller is also getting ready to see what Rhona Graff, Trump's long time personal assistant knows about his various dealings. You'll remember Rhona being mentioned in the e-mail exchange - “I can also send this info to your father via Rhona but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first,”.

    THE RUSSIA INVESTIGATION IS GETTING DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO TRUMP
    Congressional investigators want to talk to one of the people who knows Trump best: his longtime personal assistant, Rhona Graff.

    The list of Trump associates to come under Robert Mueller’s magnifying glass may soon include the president’s longtime assistant, Rhona Graff. Amid the escalating Justice Department probe into Kremlin interference in the 2016 election and multiple congressional investigations, lawmakers reportedly want to speak with Graff, who has served as Donald Trump’s gatekeeper for decades.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...a-graff-russia

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Geez now he's mouthing off at Venezuela:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1AR2GR

    He must be feeling really threatened by something.
    It's a byproduct of the adrenaline rush he's getting from dealing with North Korea. When every problem resembles a nail you reach for hammer.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  10. #510
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    I see one of our primary news feeds is now VanityFair. Hmm

  11. #511

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwoodguy View Post
    It's a byproduct of the adrenaline rush he's getting from dealing with North Korea. When every problem resembles a nail you reach for hammer.
    The Ultimate form of American diplomacy


    Tom Lehrer hits the issue more than 50 years ago. Applies today.


    Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, Iraq....

    I thought that Trump was going to put America First and pull out of foreign engagements

    Since 2016, Trump used the slogan, who has said that "'America First' will be the major and overriding theme" of his administration including President Trump's "America First" inaugural message.


    North Korea Applauds Donald Trump’s Threat to Pull Troops From SouthBy CHOE SANG-HUN JUNE 1, 2016
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/w...ald-trump.html

    Trump Suggests Pulling Troops From Japan, Korea: Let Them Build Nukes
    Monday, 28 Mar 2016 07:31 AM
    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Tru.../28/id/721115/

    Trump details 'America first' foreign policy views, threatening to ...
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/.../trum...-threatening-w...
    Mar 27, 2016

    Trump Betrays ‘America First’ Message With Syrian Strike
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/08/tr...syrian-strike/

    With that, the flip flop Cheeto in Chief has betrayed his central promise and as usual, he lies like the worst of politicians that he loudly yelled that he would never become.
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  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Geez now he's mouthing off at Venezuela:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1AR2GR

    He must be feeling really threatened by something.
    Yup, by his own inner inadequacies. This guy has to be stopped.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  13. #513

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I see one of our primary news feeds is now VanityFair. Hmm
    Vanity Fair! Ha ha.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I see one of our primary news feeds is now VanityFair. Hmm
    Okay, that is so hilarious!! LOL..!!

  15. #515

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    Let's just see what you say when Trump's personal assistant is being grilled by the investigators. And Vanity Fair broke the story of the identity of Deep Throat of Watergate fame.

    Remember, MrOilers and crew believe that Alex Jones and Briebart deserve the Pulitzer Prize.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 12-08-2017 at 11:28 AM.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Let's just see what you say when Trump's personal assistant is being grilled by the investigators. And Vanity Fair broke the story of the identity of Deep Throat of Watergate fame.

    Remember, MrOilers and crew believe that Alex Jones and Briebart deserve the Pulitzer Prize.
    Alex who? Put that paintbrush away, alt lefty.

  17. #517

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    He of Pizzagate. Trump's good buddy.

    Alex who? That's cute. Who's next? "Adolph who? Never heard of him"

    Trump praises 9/11 truther's 'amazing' reputation

    Washington (CNN)Donald Trump is heaping praise on a radio host who has asserted that the U.S. government was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing and the September 11 terrorist attacks.


    "Your reputation is amazing. I will not let you down," Trump told Alex Jones during a Wednesday afternoon appearance on the Infowars.com proprietor's show.
    Jones shared the love, telling Trump that "my audience, 90% of them, they support you."

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politi...nes/index.html

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    He of Pizzagate. Trump's good buddy.

    Alex who? That's cute. Who's next? "Adolph who? Never heard of him"

    Trump praises 9/11 truther's 'amazing' reputation

    Washington (CNN)Donald Trump is heaping praise on a radio host who has asserted that the U.S. government was involved in the Oklahoma City bombing and the September 11 terrorist attacks.


    "Your reputation is amazing. I will not let you down," Trump told Alex Jones during a Wednesday afternoon appearance on the Infowars.com proprietor's show.
    Jones shared the love, telling Trump that "my audience, 90% of them, they support you."

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politi...nes/index.html
    The only thing I know about Jones, was when all the children at Sandy Hook were killed, and the said he didn't believe it or something. You can choose to believe me, or not. Its great when a Lefty doesn't believe he, it just shows me his narrowed minded they are, choosing to believe their own rhetoric. I don't know what he has said since then, or that's he's friends with Trump. I think you make [email protected] up. Pizzagate?wtf is that?

  19. #519

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    Awwww, it's so adorable when people claim to be totally unaware of things that were covered extensively in the news.

    In a nutshell, the opponents of Hillary Clinton claimed that she was connected to a child sex ring run out of the basement of a pizza parlour in DC called Planet Ping Pong. This was all based on the fact that one of the leaked e-mails was a reciept for a pizza order.

    There's a number of problems with this. One, Planet Ping Pong's building doesn't have a basement. Two, there was no child sex ring and Three. the reciept was actually for pizza.

    None of this stopped Jones fan and Trump supporter, Edgar Maddison Welch, from showing up at the restaurant with his rifle and firing a number of shots. Luckily, he didn't hit anyone and later surrendered to police (It's a good thing he was white or he wouldn't have gotten the chance to surrender).


    'Pizzagate' Shooter to Serve Four Years in Jail

    in the hours after the shooting, Michael Flynn Jr., the son of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, continued to tweet about it. “Until #Pizzagate [is] proven to be false, it’ll remain a story,” Flynn Jr. said, adding: “The left seems to forget [the] #PodestaEmails and the many ‘coincidences’ tied to it.” At the heart of the conspiracy theory was the idea that Podesta’s many references to “pizza” in the WikiLeaks emails were code for pedophilia.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/news/arc...n-jail/531381/
    Pizzagate was promoted by Alex Jones, Michael Flynn and Michael Flynn Jr. All people that Trump counted on as supporters. In spite of the Flynns promoting the conspiracy theory, Michael Sr. was made National Security Advisor before being fired for unrelated actions.

  20. #520

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Remember, MrOilers and crew believe that Alex Jones and Briebart deserve the Pulitzer Prize.

    You have no argument so you INVENT ways to attack me!

  21. #521

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    The Daily Stormer, the official voice of the KKK, responds to Trump's comments about the events in Charlottesville today. He won't even condemn actual Nazis when he's got Jewish grandchildren.

    But at least the nazis approve.


  22. #522

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    In a nutshell, the opponents of Hillary Clinton claimed that she was connected to a child sex ring run out of the basement of a pizza parlour in DC called Planet Ping Pong. This was all based on the fact that one of the leaked e-mails was a reciept for a pizza order.
    Wrong.

    "Pizzagate" (also known as "Pedogate") came from John Podesta's leaked emails last year, which showed that he had lots of meetings and get-togethers with known pedophiles (such as Anthony Weiner) in Washington, and lots of those meetings were at a pizza place (called "Comet Ping Pong", not "Planet Ping Pong") who had a creepy owner who also frequently hung out with lots of known pedophiles and had lots of creepy pro-pedophilia posts on his personal social media accounts.

    Add to this, the fact that politicians in countries like Norway and UK have been convicted for involvement in pedophile rings, and the lack of any Western politicians condemning Islamic marriages to child brides, it raised a discussion about the likelihood that this sort of thing may be happening in Washington, DC.

    The left, of course, loudly dismisses open discussions about politicians and pedophilia as "conspiracy talk". You can draw your own conclusions as to why they would be apologists for child sex trafficking or pedophilia.


    Last edited by MrOilers; 12-08-2017 at 04:27 PM.

  23. #523

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    The Daily Stormer, the official voice of the KKK...
    Why do you read that crap, never mind post it here? I guarantee you that nobody else here does.

    I can also guarantee you that everyone who disagrees with your politics ALSO condemns racism and the whole idea of "white supremacy". I sure as hell do.

    But please go on and keep shouting slanderous titles to everyone you disagree with to "dehumanize" the other side of the argument, if you think that's the best way to win people over to your side.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 12-08-2017 at 04:25 PM.

  24. #524

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    And your train has totally left the rails and disappeared into looneyville.

    And just how is making up a story about child sex trafficking taking it seriously?

    There you have it folks, MrOilers believes in Pizzagate. That sound you just heard was the last shred of his credibility shattering.

    Pizzagate, explained: Everything you want to know about the Comet Ping Pong pizzeria conspiracy theory but are too afraid to search for on Reddit
    How this incredibly stupid and dangerous piece of fiction captured the lurid imaginations of many gullible people

    Pizzagate started, as so many things have in the last few months, with Wikileaks. When Wikileaks released emails from former Hillary Clinton 2016 Campaign Chairman John Podesta’s account, most commentators honed in on the ones showing Clinton allies speaking candidly and sometimes disparagingly about the candidate and her associates, as well as about policies like a federal $15 minimum wage.


    But a small number of people on message boards like 4chan and Reddit were more interested in seemingly mundane emails about small social gatherings and parties hosted by Podesta and his friends. Specifically, they noticed that these emails mentioned pizza a few times.

    ---

    And that’s the legacy of this whole mess in the end. Hoaxsters and the deranged collaborated to create a compelling and nonsensical story about depraved, satanic elites operating with impunity. This struck a chord with people who have long seen the mainstream media and politically powerful and well-connected people as manipulative and evil — a public very much like the one that helped carry Trump to victory on a wave of anti-elite sentiment.


    http://www.salon.com/2016/12/10/pizz...for-on-reddit/

    Last edited by kkozoriz; 12-08-2017 at 04:31 PM.

  25. #525

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    The Daily Stormer, the official voice of the KKK...
    Why do you read that crap, never mind post it here? I guarantee you that nobody else here does.

    I can also guarantee you that everyone who disagrees with your politics ALSO condemns racism and the whole idea of "white supremacy". I sure as hell do.

    But please go on and keep shouting slanderous titles to everyone you disagree with to "dehumanize" the other side of the argument, if you think that's the best way to win people over to your side.
    Three words "Know thy enemy".

  26. #526

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    Oh. So in your mind, people who don't share your socialist beliefs are automatically racists AND enemies?

  27. #527

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    Trump calls protesters "thugs" but won't refer to people who call themselves Nazis, Nazis.

    “We must call evil by its name”: Republicans criticize Trump, Jeff Sessions for ignoring white supremacists in Charlottesville statements
    The nation's top leaders condemned the violence on "all sides" -- but ignored the white nationalists who stoked it

    Donald Trump did not hesitate to compare U.S. intelligence officers to Nazis but after white nationalists waving the Nazi flag erupted in violent clashes throughout downtown Charlottesville, Virginia, on Saturday, the president failed to call out racists and chide white supremacists — even after a car plowed into a group of anti-racists protesters, killing at least one person.

    http://www.salon.com/2017/08/12/we-m...le-statements/

  28. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Oh. So in your mind, people who don't share your socialist beliefs are automatically racists AND enemies?
    If you want to count actual Nazis among your friends, feel free. I prefer to call them what they are. White nationalists. Racists. Nazis. That's not someone who simply "doesn't share my socialist beliefs".

    Feel free to say that these people "simply don't support your beliefs". But if you do, remember you're the one that claimed I was condemning them for simply not sharing mine.

    This weekend's Charlottesville rally represents an alliance between pro-Confederates and Nazis
    The latest alt-right rally over a Confederate statue represents a terrifying resurgence of Nazi rhetoric.


    Friday’s protesters shouted anti-Semitic and Nazi-associated slogans, including "blood and soil”: a phrase that references the German ideology of Blut und Boden, or the idea that a person is defined by his or her relationship to ethnic ancestry (blood) and the land they cultivate (soil).


    Protesters also shouted “Jews will not replace us” (a more explicitly anti-Semitic take on “you will not replace us,” a white-supremacist alt-right slogan that arose in response to actor Shia LaBoeuf’s anti-Trump performance art piece “He Will Not Divide Us”).


    Attendees at the rally also wore Nazi paraphernalia, carried flags with swastikas alongside Confederate flags, and wore shirts with quotations by Adolf Hitler.

    https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/161383...zis-really-are



  29. #529

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Oh. So in your mind, people who don't share your socialist beliefs are automatically racists AND enemies?
    If you want to count actual Nazis among your friends, feel free.

    You've lost your mind!

  30. #530

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    So they don't share your beliefs? Do you count them as friends? Neutrals? Where do you stand agains Nazis?

    Here's a hint, we went to war half a century ago to defeat them. If you're willing to simply stand back and let them build up again then you're just as much to blame as they are.

    Billions of peaceful Muslims? Terrorists! Nazis? They're not that bad once you get to know them.

    Here's John McCain saying what you won't.

    Last edited by kkozoriz; 12-08-2017 at 06:34 PM.

  31. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Awwww, it's so adorable when people claim to be totally unaware of things that were covered extensively in the news.

    In a nutshell, the opponents of Hillary Clinton claimed that she was connected to a child sex ring run out of the basement of a pizza parlour in DC called Planet Ping Pong. This was all based on the fact that one of the leaked e-mails was a reciept for a pizza order.

    There's a number of problems with this. One, Planet Ping Pong's building doesn't have a basement. Two, there was no child sex ring and Three. the reciept was actually for pizza.

    None of this stopped Jones fan and Trump supporter, Edgar Maddison Welch, from showing up at the restaurant with his rifle and firing a number of shots. Luckily, he didn't hit anyone and later surrendered to police (It's a good thing he was white or he wouldn't have gotten the chance to surrender).


    'Pizzagate' Shooter to Serve Four Years in Jail

    in the hours after the shooting, Michael Flynn Jr., the son of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, continued to tweet about it. “Until #Pizzagate [is] proven to be false, it’ll remain a story,” Flynn Jr. said, adding: “The left seems to forget [the] #PodestaEmails and the many ‘coincidences’ tied to it.” At the heart of the conspiracy theory was the idea that Podesta’s many references to “pizza” in the WikiLeaks emails were code for pedophilia.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/news/arc...n-jail/531381/
    Pizzagate was promoted by Alex Jones, Michael Flynn and Michael Flynn Jr. All people that Trump counted on as supporters. In spite of the Flynns promoting the conspiracy theory, Michael Sr. was made National Security Advisor before being fired for unrelated actions.
    Wow,you know an awful lot about them all, come out of that closet you fan of...lol!

  32. #532

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    Remember that line from Ghostbusters "If someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes!" Well, if someone asks you if you wantthe support of the American Nazi Party and the KKK. ypou say NO! Unless, of course, you can't denounce them because they're your most loyal supporters.

    Sure looks like a Muslim, doesn't he?

    Suspect identified in Charlottesville vehicle rampage that killed protester

    “Dozens of the white nationalists in Charlottesville were wearing red Make America Great Again hats,” The Post noted. “Asked by a reporter in New Jersey whether he wanted the support of white nationalists, Trump did not respond.”



    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/susp...led-protester/

  33. #533

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    Trump blames "many sides" and inferes blame that Barrack Obama did not solve this.

    "It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America."
    ...weak.

    All this from the guy who stoked white supremacists and racists with his Birther fake claims and campaign of hate, fear mongering, overt nationalism with dog whistle speeches, instilling violence at his rallies, indifference to David Duke and his ilk, etc.

    This is Trumps core base and he will refuse to call them terrorists, he will not stop white supremacists and he will not take action.
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  34. #534

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    Unfortunately it's going to be very hard to untangle the motive of the driver in Charlottesville.

  35. #535

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Where do you stand agains Nazis?

    My grandparents fought them in France. But most of my European ancestors that were killed and tortured were victims of socialists and communists. The Nazis (like the ones in 1930s Germany) don't exist anymore, but socialism is an ever present threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    This is Trumps core base and he will refuse to call them terrorists, he will not stop white supremacists and he will not take action.
    Trump is not an idealogue but if there is anything he values it's loyalty and these are his loyalists, they voted for him.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  37. #537

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    you can't denounce them because they're your most loyal supporters.
    If that were true, then YOU aren't denouncing pedophilia because YOU are a child rapist.

    Same style of argument. Same logic.

  38. #538

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Unfortunately it's going to be very hard to untangle the motive of the driver in Charlottesville.
    BS

    Not hard at all unless you want to be his apologist. He is a terrorist that resorted to using a car as a weapon just like similar terrorist attacks in Europe. He is a white supremacist terrorist who murderously hates others who do not support his alt-right beliefs.

    They caught him alive and it won't be at all hard to unravel what we already know in the first few hours.
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  39. #539

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Unfortunately it's going to be very hard to untangle the motive of the driver in Charlottesville.
    BS

    Not hard at all unless you want to be his apologist.
    I was quoting Obama.

    (that is what he said about the Black Lives Matter shooter who murdered the 5 cops)

  40. #540

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Where do you stand agains Nazis?

    My grandparents fought them in France. But most of my European ancestors that were killed and tortured were victims of socialists and communists. The Nazis (like the ones in 1930s Germany) don't exist anymore, but socialism is an ever present threat.

    BS again

    There are thousands of Nazis in the United State and even in Canada. Just where do you get your information?

    You are in denial. I watched and have posted KKK members and white nationalists wearing swastikas, the tattoos and making Nazi salutes.

    Get help. Please get serious help.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-08-2017 at 10:41 PM.
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  41. #541

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    you can't denounce them because they're your most loyal supporters.
    If that were true, then YOU aren't denouncing pedophilia because YOU are a child rapist.

    Same style of argument. Same logic.
    MrOilers. Your post has been reported. I hope that they ban you from this forum.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  42. #542

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Where do you stand agains Nazis?

    My grandparents fought them in France. But most of my European ancestors that were killed and tortured were victims of socialists and communists.

    BS again
    How dare you.

    Back on 'ignore' you go.

  43. #543

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    I have to say that President Trump really handled it perfect today. He refused to pick sides, refused to participate in any identity politics or singling out anyone in this violent clash, and instead called for unity and peace.

  44. #544

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    How dare I???
    I like how you edited out what I was referring to in your rewriting and deflection. Here is what you avoided.

    My grandparents fought them in France. But most of my European ancestors that were killed and tortured were victims of socialists and communists. The Nazis (like the ones in 1930s Germany) don't exist anymore, but socialism is an ever present threat.
    I underlined and pasted in bold your outrageous and clearly wrong statement. It looks like you want to sweep, the fact that Nazism and the alt-right beliefs are a growing violent and dangerous extremist ideology and political movement, away. You are in denial and more so, seem to want to minimize this threat as nonexistent.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  45. #545

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    In a nutshell, the opponents of Hillary Clinton claimed that she was connected to a child sex ring run out of the basement of a pizza parlour in DC called Planet Ping Pong. This was all based on the fact that one of the leaked e-mails was a reciept for a pizza order.
    Wrong.

    "Pizzagate" (also known as "Pedogate") came from John Podesta's leaked emails last year, which showed that he had lots of meetings and get-togethers with known pedophiles (such as Anthony Weiner) in Washington, and lots of those meetings were at a pizza place (called "Comet Ping Pong", not "Planet Ping Pong") who had a creepy owner who also frequently hung out with lots of known pedophiles and had lots of creepy pro-pedophilia posts on his personal social media accounts.

    Add to this, the fact that politicians in countries like Norway and UK have been convicted for involvement in pedophile rings, and the lack of any Western politicians condemning Islamic marriages to child brides, it raised a discussion about the likelihood that this sort of thing may be happening in Washington, DC.

    The left, of course, loudly dismisses open discussions about politicians and pedophilia as "conspiracy talk". You can draw your own conclusions as to why they would be apologists for child sex trafficking or pedophilia.


    Wiener was a pedophile? I thought he was an exhibitionist or whatever it is in sending explicit photos to women. Were kids involved?

    Also where's the info on the pizza shop owner?

    As for that poster. I don't get it. The Haskerk guy was a Republican so what's the point in pointing at the Democrats? Think of all the lifelong friends of priests, ministers, teachers, coaches, etc that aren't also peodofiles.

    However? Of course peodiphiles could exist among the Democrats just as they did among the republicans.

    Again here. See article below. I read the headline and the byline and then I read the article. Did I miss something? Maybe there's is a connection due to the association. Or they were just discussing adoption. Hmm, discussing adoption, now all this has me wondering. Hmm, makes you wonder if those son of Trump meetings about adoption. Maybe they were really about some international child sex ring.

    John Podesta Helps Pedophile Dennis Hastert Get Out Of Prison
    "Former Hillary Clinton campaign chair John Podesta has pulled some strings to get convicted pedophile and former U.S. House Speaker Dennis Hastert released from prison early. "
    July 18, 2017
    http://yournewswire.com/john-podesta...astert-prison/


    Anthony Weiner pleaded guilty to ‘sexting’ a teen girl. Then his estranged wife filed for divorce. - The Washington Post

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.9f2ee1e70802


    The one weird court case linking Trump, Clinton, and a billionaire pedophile

    A woman suing in connection with Jeffrey Epstein’s underage sex ring claims she was first approached while working as a towel girl at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort.
    By JOSH GERSTEIN 05/04/2017 12:03 PM EDT
    NEW YORK—

    A woman who claims in a lawsuit that she was lured into a sex-trafficking ring run by billionaire Jeffrey Epstein contends that the depravity began at a Florida resort now known as the winter White House: Mar-a-Lago.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ficking-237983
    Trump’s Alleged Rape Of 13-Year-Old Girl Isn't Going Away
    A young woman’s decision to drop rape charges over an alleged incident when she was 13 was an amazing stroke of luck for Donald Trump. What’s up on that?


    "DailyWire.com raised more questions about Trump’s possible sexual involvement with minors with their article, 7 Things You Need To Know About Trump And Sex Slave Island. Both Trump and former US President Bill Clinton reportedly sojourned to Epstein’s “Sex Slave Island” or “Orgy Island” as it has been called. They reportedly partook in the alleged salacious, sexual escapades there. As noted by The Free Beacon, “Clinton was aboard the infamous Lolita Express owned by a billionaire pedophile at least 26 times.” ..."



    http://ahtribune.com/us/maga/1560-tr...-old-girl.html

    Last edited by KC; 12-08-2017 at 11:37 PM.

  46. #546
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    While I don't endorse violence unless its a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states. I have deep roots in Texas, my grandfather of the same name as me and him before that. The American Civil war was not about slavery.



    The anthem for the south
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  47. #547

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    So what are you saying?
    Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you are supporting the violent terrorist attack yesterday because the right was provoked.
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  48. #548
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    [QUOTE=MrOilers;842767][QUOTE=Edmonton PRT;842764]
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Where do you stand agains Nazis?

    My grandparents fought them in France. But most of my European ancestors that were killed and tortured were victims of socialists and communists.

    BS again




    How dare you.

    Back on 'ignore' you go.
    Keep it that way! Life is far easier, without the trolls winding people up.

  49. #549

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    Probably the same with any President.


    Scaramucci: White house plotters seeking Trump exit - BBC News
    There are people in Washington DC working against President Donald Trump, the former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci has said.

    He said there were "elements" within the White House trying to eject Mr Trump, and he had "named some names".

    Mr Scaramucci spoke to ABC News for the first time since being sacked last month - after just 10 days in office.

    It followed a phone recording in which he strongly attacked then-White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus.

    He also directed profanity-laced insults at Chief Strategist Steve Bannon...."



    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40917640


  50. #550

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I have to say that President Trump really handled it perfect today. He refused to pick sides, refused to participate in any identity politics or singling out anyone in this violent clash, and instead called for unity and peace.
    So he refused to call it a violent terrorist attack by a white supremacist.

    Trump railed against Obama for not calling out terrorists even though Obama did so.

    Trump was asked directly by a reporter, who had asked him to comment on the claims of white nationalist protesters that they supported Trump’s agenda. The President declined to acknowledge this or any other questions, despite having called the event a “press conference” on Twitter. https://www.economist.com/blogs/demo...harlottesville
    His silence on this issue and the White House 24 hours later not making a formal declaration that this was an act of terrorism is an overt message of support to the emboldened white supremacists, neo-nazis and ultra nationalists.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  51. #551

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    While I don't endorse violence unless its a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states. I have deep roots in Texas, my grandfather of the same name as me and him before that. The American Civil war was not about slavery.

    The anthem for the south
    Please explain yourself, the comment you made that I highlighted in red.

    So what was the Civil War about in your opinion? I really want to know what you think the reasons were.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  52. #552

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    Trump's not so good with numbers.

    Bush released nearly 93% of them yet Trump blamed Obama.


    "President Donald Trump tweeted on 7 March to criticise former President Obama's administration for releasing 122 prisoners from "Gitmo", a shorthand for the US-run Guantanamo Bay detention centre, who "returned to the battlefield"."
    Source: below:
    7 March 2017


    The claim: One hundred and twenty-two prisoners freed by President Obama from Guantanamo Bay engaged in "terrorist or insurgent activities" after their release.

    Reality Check verdict: All but nine of the 122 released prisoners the US says were involved in "terrorist or insurgent activities" after leaving Guantanamo were not freed by Obama but by his predecessor, George W Bush.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39197465
    Bolding was mine.


    Bottom line: 122 sounds like a big number to me.

  53. #553

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    While I don't endorse violence unless its a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states. I have deep roots in Texas, my grandfather of the same name as me and him before that. The American Civil war was not about slavery.

    The anthem for the south
    Please explain yourself, the comment you made that I highlighted in red.

    So what was the Civil War about in your opinion? I really want to know what you think the reasons were.
    Maybe first define "about" and "not about"

  54. #554

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    So after being called a "Nazi" (LOL) here over and over again, I looked up this Sebastian Gorka guy who the far-lefters also claim to be a "Nazi". Turns out they do this because the claim was made by some leftist blog.

    It turns out that the medal that Gorka wears is not a "Nazi pin", but rather a Hungarian anti-communist medal. Once again, instead of arguing facts, the left resorts to character assassination by name-calling and misleading smears.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/seba...ampaign=buffer

    I am glad I looked this up.

  55. #555

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    So after being called a "Nazi" (LOL) here over and over again, I looked up this Sebastian Gorka guy who the far-lefters also claim to be a "Nazi". Turns out they do this because the claim was made by some leftist blog.

    It turns out that the medal that Gorka wears is not a "Nazi pin", but rather a Hungarian anti-communist medal. Once again, instead of arguing facts, the left resorts to character assassination by name-calling and misleading smears.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/seba...ampaign=buffer

    I am glad I looked this up.

    Wrong again


    It is not an anti-communist symbol.

    The Vitézi Rend medal is a Nazi related symbol. "The United States Department of State lists the Order of Vitéz as having been "under the direction of the Nazi Government of Germany"

    Under the Armistice signed between the Allies and the Provisional National Government of Hungary (Ideiglenes Nemzeti Kormány), which was set up in the liberated part of Hungary from the fall of the Nazis until 1945, the Government undertook "to dissolve immediately all pro-Hitler or other fascist political, military, para-military and other organizations on Hungarian territory conducting propaganda hostile to the United Nations and not to tolerate the existence of such organizations in future." The Order's governing National Council of Vitéz was placed listed as such an organization by Prime Ministerial Edict no. 1945/529. Paragraph 1, §(1) of the Statute IV of 1947 regarding the abolition of certain titles and ranks declares annulment of the Hungarian aristocratic and noble ranks, and paragraph 3 §(1) specifically forbids the use of the "vitéz" title.
    The United States Department of State included this Order of Vitéz as an institution "under the direction of the Nazi Government of Germany," along with the ruling Arrow Cross Party and other contemporaneous organizations.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Vit%C3%A9z

    It is apparent that you have determined that The United States Department of State and the UN are far lefty groups.

    You are deplorable. Seek immediate help.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 13-08-2017 at 10:24 AM.
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  56. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    So what are you saying?
    Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you are supporting the violent terrorist attack yesterday because the right was provoked.
    Since admin pulled my last post I'll put it like this instead:

    I sympathise with the plight of the south (and I don't mean southern Alberta ) My father was born in Fannin county, I have 2 generations of my real name interred there. I'm not supporting terrorist, and the protestors that showed up there with torches probably could have used The bonny blue flag as inspiration. I don't endorse violence of any kind and who's to say it wasn't somebody from the other side that incited the violence? But you just don't mess with the General.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  57. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    While I don't endorse violence unless its a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states. I have deep roots in Texas, my grandfather of the same name as me and him before that. The American Civil war was not about slavery.

    The anthem for the south
    Please explain yourself, the comment you made that I highlighted in red.

    So what was the Civil War about in your opinion? I really want to know what you think the reasons were.
    Maybe first define "about" and "not about"
    Southern rights ignored, which many stood up against, young old the crippled. I'm against slavery and human rights abuse.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  58. #558

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    You stated "Southern rights ignored, which many stood up against, young old the crippled."

    Which rights are you referring to?

    Please be specific.
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  59. #559
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    ^ Your going to have to google that one.

    With my video post censored I'm slowly losing an appetite for this thread.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  60. #560

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    While I don't endorse violence unless its a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states. I have deep roots in Texas, my grandfather of the same name as me and him before that. The American Civil war was not about slavery.

    The anthem for the south
    Please explain yourself, the comment you made that I highlighted in red.

    So what was the Civil War about in your opinion? I really want to know what you think the reasons were.
    Maybe first define "about" and "not about"
    Southern rights ignored, which many stood up against, young old the crippled. I'm against slavery and human rights abuse.
    You might want to ask the confederates about that.



    The Cornerstone Speech, also known as the Cornerstone Address, was an oration delivered by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia, on March 21, 1861.

    The Cornerstone Speech became so known for Stephens's declaration that the perpetuation of slavery was the principal goal and purpose of the secession and the Confederacy:


    Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech
    By the same token, the second amendment was put in place at the demand of the slave owning states so they could use militias to track down escaped slaves.

  61. #561
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    I was told, while in Charleston, SC, that the war was over money. The south had too much of it and the north didn't like it so they pulled the rug out from under them and kept them in relative poverty for the next 100 plus years.

  62. #562

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    No, the south was afraid that they'd be at an economic disadvantage if they actually had to pay people to work in their fields. It's much cheaper to simply purchase a slave and then treat them as property. That was the, to paraphrase Ralph Klein, The Confederate Advantage. For the same reason, they opposed allowing black people the vote but wanted the to count as 3/5 of a human being. It added to their population thus giving them more representation but they didn't have to worry about blacks actually voting against their masters interests.

  63. #563

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You stated "Southern rights ignored, which many stood up against, young old the crippled."

    Which rights are you referring to?

    Please be specific.
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Your going to have to google that one.

    With my video post censored I'm slowly losing an appetite for this thread.
    I am quickly losing my lunch.

    I don't think you need to post a video to answer a simple question.

    Which "Southern rights ignored" are you referring to?
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  64. #564

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I was told, while in Charleston, SC, that the war was over money. The south had too much of it and the north didn't like it so they pulled the rug out from under them and kept them in relative poverty for the next 100 plus years.
    So which scholar explained Civil War history to you when you were in Charleston, SC?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  65. #565

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    One aspect of the violent clashes that nobody is commenting on is that if we are going to live by group identity politics (as advocated by the left), we have to grant equality to EVERY identity group.

    For example, if we are to encourage public rallies for any politically-active groups, then we must also allow public rallies for ALL of them, even ones like White Supremacy groups, communist groups, neo-Nazi groups, Islamic State supporters, etc.), no matter how much you disagree with them.

    Fair is fair, right?

    This is why I hate identity politics, and instead advocate for individual rights (not group rights).

  66. #566

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    the south was afraid that they'd be at an economic disadvantage if they actually had to pay people to work in their fields.
    Yup. And it's the exact same reason the left fights so hard on behalf illegal immigrant workers today (cheap labor to be exploited).
    Last edited by MrOilers; 13-08-2017 at 12:58 PM.

  67. #567

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    the second amendment was put in place at the demand of the slave owning states so they could use militias to track down escaped slaves.
    No, the second amendment was put in place long before that, largely because the founding fathers recognized that the war of Independence was won largely because their citizens were armed and could successfully fight back against British Imperialists.

    After all, slavery occurred for thousands of years before guns were invented. America sure as hell didn't invent slavery.

  68. #568

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    You're delusional and I refuse to further engage with you. Go back to pushing your Pizzagate conspiracy theories and leave reality to the grownups.

  69. #569

  70. #570

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    Or, as Trump says, the woman under the wheels was as much to blame as the terrorist behind the wheel.


  71. #571

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    Once upon a time...

    Don't be a Sucker - https://youtu.be/23X14HS4gLk
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  72. #572
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    The other side of the story that isn't popular is probably going to get pulled by the Censorship of Admin. Even clean you tube videos, because Admin doesn't want to hear the other side. So go ahead Admin, censor this too.



    As for Edmonton PRT, I'm not playing your game Edmonton PRT. Your a big boy. Go look the information up yourself.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  73. #573

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    One aspect of the violent clashes that nobody is commenting on is that if we are going to live by group identity politics (as advocated by the left), we have to grant equality to EVERY identity group.

    For example, if we are to encourage public rallies for any politically-active groups, then we must also allow public rallies for ALL of them, even ones like White Supremacy groups, communist groups, neo-Nazi groups, Islamic State supporters, etc.), no matter how much you disagree with them.

    Fair is fair, right?

    This is why I hate identity politics, and instead advocate for individual rights (not group rights).

    Group and/vs individual rights is a fascinating subject. We have a mix of both, probably always gave. Snd trying to separate them might be very hard to do.

  74. #574

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As for Edmonton PRT, I'm not playing your game Edmonton PRT. Your a big boy. Go look the information up yourself.
    You sir, are a childish little boy. You throw rocks at people and then run away.

    All I asked was; which "Southern rights ignored" are you referring to?

    I gave you a fair chance to clarify your position on the inflammatory statements you made but you instead, deflected and insist that we guess what you were thinking. So either you made a statement that you knowingly made that is false or that you realize that the statement is viewed as racist, bigoted and disgusting to many of the people on this forum. You in fact state that "isn't popular is probably going to get pulled by the Censorship of Admin"

    You will not clarify your statement and take a stance against homegrown terrorism just like Donald Trump who remained silent for more than 24 hours after his last watery statement that avoided blaming the white supremacists that planned this event for months and one murder alt-right extremist terrorist attempted to kill as many people as possible.

    "Trump silent as aides look to explain his vague Charlottesville statement" http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/politi...lle/index.html

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    While I don't endorse violence unless its a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states. I have deep roots in Texas, my grandfather of the same name as me and him before that. The American Civil war was not about slavery.
    You posted the Bonnie Blue Flag which is a symbol, much like the later Second Confederate Flag these "rebel flags" has become highly divisive symbols in the United States and your posting the flag and the war song based upon it is reviving Southern Nationalism and a dark and frightening time of the official oppression and enslavement of a people with no rights or protections by their government.
    The Bonnie Blue Flag was an unofficial banner of the Confederate States of America at the start of the American Civil War in 1861.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...tes_of_America


    You then go on to state that you do not endorse violence but "unless it's a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states" It infers that the many acts of planned violence this weekend are a last resort to your perceived threats and therefore empathise with the white supremacists, alt-right, KKK and Neo-Nazis who also empathise with the Southern US states


    You make the outrageous claim that the Civil War was not about slavery when it was clearly the main cause. Here are some factual evidence that disagree with you.

    Those who believe slavery was not a central point of conflict in the Civil War may wish to peruse the South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas declarations of secession. Those documents all explicitly cite threats to slavery as reasons for secession. Mississippi's declaration goes so far as to say that “a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/c...cist_n_7639788 Note in the South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas declarations of secession, the word slave
    /slavery is used 80 times!
    http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras277...secession.html

    The primary catalyst for secession was slavery, especially Southern political leaders' resistance to attempts by Northern antislavery political forces to block the expansion of slavery into the western territories.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...ican_Civil_War

    While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America.
    https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/civil-war-facts

    The curious thing is that although slavery was the moral issue of the nineteenth century that divided the political leaders of the land, the average American had very little interest in slaves or slavery. Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never even seen a slave.
    But political leaders on both sides were very interested in slaves and slavery. The South's economic system was based upon cotton--and slavery. The political leaders of the South, such as Robert Barnwell Rhett of South Carolina, William Lowndes Yancey of Alabama, The Fire Eaters and Robert Augustus Toombs of Georgia, recognized that if the South lost her slaves (i. e., had to pay slaves wages similar to what white laborers were paid), her entire socio-economic system would probably collapse. Hence any political action that took place that threatened the slavery system of the South received the undivided attention of the South's political leaders, many of whom were themselves slave owners.
    http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/causes.htm

    The secession of the Southern states (in chronological order, South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina) in 1860–61 and the ensuing outbreak of armed hostilities were the culmination of decades of growing sectional friction over slavery.
    https://www.britannica.com/event/American-Civil-War

    A common assumption to explain the cause of the American Civil War was that the North was no longer willing to tolerate slavery as being part of the fabric of US society and that the political power brokers in Washington were planning to abolish slavery throughout the Union. Therefore for many people slavery is the key issue to explain the causes of the American Civil War. However, it is not as simple as this and slavery, while a major issue, was not the only issue that pushed American into the ‘Great American Tragedy’. By April 1861, slavery had become inextricably entwined with state rights, the power of the federal government over the states, the South’s ‘way of life’ etc. – all of which made a major contribution to the causes of the American Civil War.
    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...can-civil-war/
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  75. #575

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    Like father, like son, 90 years later

    In 1927, Donald Trump’s father was arrested after a Klan riot in Queens
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f38a8a251ecb
    One of those arrested was Fred Trump of 175-24 Devonshire Rd. in Jamaica. (NYC)






    When news of the old report surfaced last year, Donald Trump vehemently denied his father's arrest. "He was never arrested. He has nothing to do with this. This never happened. This is nonsense and it never happened," he said to the Daily Mail. "This never happened. Never took place. He was never arrested, never convicted, never even charged. It's a completely false, ridiculous story. He was never there! It never happened. Never took place."
    And it's worth noting, too, as did Jonathan Chait at New York magazine, that Trump's claim to "know nothing" about white supremacists echoes the language of the 19th-century "Know Nothing" party a nativist group that supported only Protestants for public office.
    Definition of nativism. 1 : a policy of favoring native inhabitants as opposed to immigrants. 2 : the revival or perpetuation of an indigenous culture especially in opposition to acculturation.
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  76. #576

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The other side of the story that isn't popular is probably going to get pulled by the Censorship of Admin. Even clean you tube videos, because Admin doesn't want to hear the other side. So go ahead Admin, censor this too.


    Yeah, this guy is the poster boy for the Alt-Right and he should be arrested for his actions in inciting a riot. One that one of his followers used a car to injure, kill and terrorise those who disagreed with him.

    Racist alt-right feeds off President Trump’s rhetoric as White House full of aides tied to hate groups
    It was unclear if Miller, or any of the other alt-right-connected White House advisers — Stephen Bannon, Sebastian Gorka and Sam Clovis among them — were behind the much-maligned statement Trump issued after the Charlottesville unrest.


    Instead of specifically denouncing the white supremacists who held the rally and set the tone for the deadly demonstration, Trump suggested that “many sides” were to blame for the violence at the “Unite the Right” rally.
    White nationalist leader Richard Spencer, who also attended Saturday’s rally, plans his own press conference for Monday.


    Spencer, one of the Charlottesville headliners, is listed as a key “alt-right” figure in a new guide from the Anti-Defamation League.


    Spencer, 39, president of the National Policy Institute, a white nationalist think tank, led a rally in Washington after Trump’s election, in which members raised their arms in Nazi salutes, and declared “Hail, Trump.” He’s also the one who coined the term “alt-right,” short for “alternative right.”


    He denied any responsibility for the violence at the rally, and blamed police.
    Right,


    The key figure behind Saturday’s rally was “white rights” activist Jason Kessler, who lives in Charlottesville and organized the protest.


    He is the founder of Unity and Security for America, a right-wing political advocacy group.


    Although Kessler claims that he is not a white nationalist or a white supremacist, members of the Ku Klux Klan were slated to be at his side during the protest, just as they were at a Charlottesville demonstration in July.
    Trump’s appointment of Bannon, the former president of the right-wing Breitbart News, as his chief strategist and senior counselor was seen by many as a nod to the alt-right movement.

    Bannon, 63, came under fire after divorce court documents emerged alleging he didn’t want his twin daughters attending the Archer School for Girls in Los Angeles because many Jewish students were enrolled at the elite institution.


    Under Bannon, Breitbart published a call to “hoist (the Confederate flag) high and fly it with pride” only two weeks after a racist gunman killed parishioners at a predominantly black church in the Charleston, S.C., according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
    Gorka, a counterterrorism adviser to Trump, attended Trump’s inaugural ball wearing the medal of a Hungarian nationalist organization, Vitezi Rend. The group was founded by Hitler-allied Hungarian dictator Miklos Horthy. Gorka denied to NBC News that he is a member of Vitezi Rend and said he has “completely distanced myself” from any fascist ideology.
    “Neutrality in a time of crisis is cowardly,” the Rev. Jesse Jackson said of the President at a news conference in Memphis on Sunday.
    “His silence on them gives them confidence that they have the right to do what they’re doing. It’s not good for America,” Jackson said.

    “This is a very sensitive time for our country,” he added. “He can’t call out the Ku Klux Klan and the Confederates and the neo-Nazis. They are his supports."
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3408936
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  77. #577
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    Raised font is mine

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    As for Edmonton PRT, I'm not playing your game Edmonton PRT. Your a big boy. Go look the information up yourself.
    You sir, are a childish little boy. You throw rocks at people and then run away.

    JHC, give me a chance to answer. It is summer out. I have life.


    All I asked was; which "Southern rights ignored" are you referring to?

    Abolitionism, partisan politics, economics among others...

    I gave you a fair chance to clarify your position on the inflammatory statements you made but you instead, deflected and insist that we guess what you were thinking. So either you made a statement that you knowingly made that is false or that you realize that the statement is viewed as racist, bigoted and disgusting to many of the people on this forum. You in fact state that "isn't popular is probably going to get pulled by the Censorship of Admin"

    See my first sentence

    You will not clarify your statement and take a stance against homegrown terrorism just like Donald Trump who remained silent for more than 24 hours after his last watery statement that avoided blaming the white supremacists that planned this event for months and one murder alt-right extremist terrorist attempted to kill as many people as possible.

    The original protest group was there not to insight violence. They were hoping city police would protect them from issuing their right to the first amendment.



    "Trump silent as aides look to explain his vague Charlottesville statement" http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/politi...lle/index.html

    I'm not a Trump supporter but that was a smart move on his behalf imo

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    While I don't endorse violence unless its a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states. I have deep roots in Texas, my grandfather of the same name as me and him before that. The American Civil war was not about slavery.
    You posted the Bonnie Blue Flag which is a symbol, much like the later Second Confederate Flag these "rebel flags" has become highly divisive symbols in the United States and your posting the flag and the war song based upon it is reviving Southern Nationalism and a dark and frightening time of the official oppression and enslavement of a people with no rights or protections by their government.
    The Bonnie Blue Flag was an unofficial banner of the Confederate States of America at the start of the American Civil War in 1861.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...tes_of_America

    My father was born in Fannin county, and his father before, going back 3 generations. Often dad would be whistling "The Bonny blue flag," when I asked he told me. I was 12 years old. Wiki is great isn't it?

    You then go on to state that you do not endorse violence but "unless it's a last resort I can empathise with the Southern US states" It infers that the many acts of planned violence this weekend are a last resort to your perceived threats and therefore empathise with the white supremacists, alt-right, KKK and Neo-Nazis who also empathise with the Southern US states


    The rally was a planned rally not a prelude to violence. I think the counter protestors started it. Its happened closer to home when where counter protestors got in their face.

    You make the outrageous claim that the Civil War was not about slavery when it was clearly the main cause. Here are some factual evidence that disagree with you.

    Again see my statement above.


    Those who believe slavery was not a central point of conflict in the Civil War may wish to peruse the South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas declarations of secession. Those documents all explicitly cite threats to slavery as reasons for secession. Mississippi's declaration goes so far as to say that “a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/c...cist_n_7639788 Note in the South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas declarations of secession, the word slave
    /slavery is used 80 times!
    http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras277...secession.html


    Slavery was a catalyst but there were other issues.

    The primary catalyst for secession was slavery, especially Southern political leaders' resistance to attempts by Northern antislavery political forces to block the expansion of slavery into the western territories.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...ican_Civil_War

    While I'm not a expert on the topic of the ACW I was writing articles about it back in 1974. I played many a SPI wargame on the topic.


    While many still debate the ultimate causes of the Civil War, Pulitzer Prize-winning author James McPherson writes that, "The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America.
    https://www.civilwar.org/learn/articles/civil-war-facts

    Most modern thinking people dislike slavery but it was a different culture back then and I certainly don't endorse it.

    The curious thing is that although slavery was the moral issue of the nineteenth century that divided the political leaders of the land, the average American had very little interest in slaves or slavery. Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never even seen a slave.
    But political leaders on both sides were very interested in slaves and slavery. The South's economic system was based upon cotton--and slavery. The political leaders of the South, such as Robert Barnwell Rhett of South Carolina, William Lowndes Yancey of Alabama, The Fire Eaters and Robert Augustus Toombs of Georgia, recognized that if the South lost her slaves (i. e., had to pay slaves wages similar to what white laborers were paid), her entire socio-economic system would probably collapse. Hence any political action that took place that threatened the slavery system of the South received the undivided attention of the South's political leaders, many of whom were themselves slave owners.
    http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/causes.htm

    The secession of the Southern states (in chronological order, South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, and North Carolina) in 1860–61 and the ensuing outbreak of armed hostilities were the culmination of decades of growing sectional friction over slavery.
    https://www.britannica.com/event/American-Civil-War

    A common assumption to explain the cause of the American Civil War was that the North was no longer willing to tolerate slavery as being part of the fabric of US society and that the political power brokers in Washington were planning to abolish slavery throughout the Union. Therefore for many people slavery is the key issue to explain the causes of the American Civil War. However, it is not as simple as this and slavery, while a major issue, was not the only issue that pushed American into the ‘Great American Tragedy’. By April 1861, slavery had become inextricably entwined with state rights, the power of the federal government over the states, the South’s ‘way of life’ etc. – all of which made a major contribution to the causes of the American Civil War.
    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...can-civil-war/

    I'll respond to your other post in a bit.
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  78. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    The other side of the story that isn't popular is probably going to get pulled by the Censorship of Admin. Even clean you tube videos, because Admin doesn't want to hear the other side. So go ahead Admin, censor this too.


    Yeah, this guy is the poster boy for the Alt-Right and he should be arrested for his actions in inciting a riot. One that one of his followers used a car to injure, kill and terrorise those who disagreed with him.

    Tell me again why authorities hadn't protected the torch marchers in the first place rather then holding off? Maybe they were the ones that incited the riot.

    Racist alt-right feeds off President Trump’s rhetoric as White House full of aides tied to hate groups
    It was unclear if Miller, or any of the other alt-right-connected White House advisers — Stephen Bannon, Sebastian Gorka and Sam Clovis among them — were behind the much-maligned statement Trump issued after the Charlottesville unrest.

    Ok, if you say so

    Instead of specifically denouncing the white supremacists who held the rally and set the tone for the deadly demonstration, Trump suggested that “many sides” were to blame for the violence at the “Unite the Right” rally.

    Your repeating yourself again.

    White nationalist leader Richard Spencer, who also attended Saturday’s rally, plans his own press conference for Monday.

    Yawn

    Spencer, one of the Charlottesville headliners, is listed as a key “alt-right” figure in a new guide from the Anti-Defamation League.

    You sound like an Alex Jones poster boy


    Spencer, 39, president of the National Policy Institute, a white nationalist think tank, led a rally in Washington after Trump’s election, in which members raised their arms in Nazi salutes, and declared “Hail, Trump.” He’s also the one who coined the term “alt-right,” short for “alternative right.”

    He denied any responsibility for the violence at the rally, and blamed police.
    Right,

    I agree


    The key figure behind Saturday’s rally was “white rights” activist Jason Kessler, who lives in Charlottesville and organized the protest.

    zzzzzzz


    He is the founder of Unity and Security for America, a right-wing political advocacy group.

    zzzzzzz


    Although Kessler claims that he is not a white nationalist or a white supremacist, members of the Ku Klux Klan were slated to be at his side during the protest, just as they were at a Charlottesville demonstration in July.
    Maybe the kkk just wanted to observe


    Trump’s appointment of Bannon, the former president of the right-wing Breitbart News, as his chief strategist and senior counselor was seen by many as a nod to the alt-right movement.


    So? Does that make him a bad guy?

    Bannon, 63, came under fire after divorce court documents emerged alleging he didn’t want his twin daughters attending the Archer School for Girls in Los Angeles because many Jewish students were enrolled at the elite institution.

    zzzzzzz


    Under Bannon, Breitbart published a call to “hoist (the Confederate flag) high and fly it with pride” only two weeks after a racist gunman killed parishioners at a predominantly black church in the Charleston, S.C., according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
    zzzzzzz


    Gorka, a counterterrorism adviser to Trump, attended Trump’s inaugural ball wearing the medal of a Hungarian nationalist organization, Vitezi Rend. The group was founded by Hitler-allied Hungarian dictator Miklos Horthy. Gorka denied to NBC News that he is a member of Vitezi Rend and said he has “completely distanced myself” from any fascist ideology.
    “Neutrality in a time of crisis is cowardly,” the Rev. Jesse Jackson said of the President at a news conference in Memphis on Sunday.
    “His silence on them gives them confidence that they have the right to do what they’re doing. It’s not good for America,” Jackson said.

    “This is a very sensitive time for our country,” he added. “He can’t call out the Ku Klux Klan and the Confederates and the neo-Nazis. They are his supports."
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3408936
    Are you done?

    There's another video showing the counter protester's at Kessler's response yesterday getting in his face. The counter protester's were out for blood and probably would have killed Kessler until Police came to escort him out of the way. The counter protester's closing in on Kessler had the body language of a hateful mob "like vultures descending on its prey," but maybe you didn't see that video. How convenient for you. Keesler put himself in harms way in a attempt to not only diffuse the anger of a rabid mob but explain why his group was there. I can see its kill or be killed, but that march have been a peaceful protest if it hadn't been for the incompetence of the authorities.

    In reading many of your political posts, your anti Right Wing rhetoric is not only toxic but in itself hateful. Imo your no worse then the mob that was out to get Kessler. Your anti Right Wing prose paints you as the very group you try vilify. An alcoholic can only get help if they admit they are one. I try to see both sides of the story. Its a voice that you don't like. I don't like a lot of things. I don't like taking 2 hits of insulin every day, but I have to. I don't like wearing suspension stockings for cvi, but I have to and you call me a little boy?

    .
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  79. #579

    Default

    Nothing you said makes any cognitive sense.

    It was very clear that there was a well planned alt-right March that wanted to protest the removal of a stature of General Robert E. Lee that had been lawfully decided by a democratically elected city council. Even I disagree with that decision but for entirely different reasons. I do not support removing of historic monuments, even those that represent oppression of a people and a person who lead a unlawful succession of States that lead to 500,000 military casualties and affected the lives of millions. Civil wars are a terrible tragedy. What I endorse is the placement of a directly opposing statue and memorial of the slavery issue and the African Americans who were the victims of the hatred and racist policies in all States that supported slavery. Even adding a memorial to the Union soldiers that bravely fought to keep America together and the rights of the slaves. That way you are not erasing or rewriting history of R. E. Lee, but using both memorials to educate the public and honor both sides of the conflict.

    It should be chartered that if one side decides to use any one of the memorials to become an idol or focus point of hatred and racism to disrespect of the other group, left or right, then their respective memorial should be taken away. It is all about respect.

    But that is not what happened.

    Instead a well organized and very symbolic march of a torch wielding and well armed mob in uniforms of white supremacists, anti-semites, neo-nazis, the KKK and other extremist hate groups assembled in a manner straight out of 1933 Germany and the lynch mobs and KKK rallies that were outlawed, reminiscent of 100 years ago who wanted to terrorize and oppress everyone again to push their agenda to roll back history and reverse the fortunes of the Civil War.

    I am not a leftist but a reasonable and articulate centrist that believes in the core principles of a free and democratic society based upon the Constitution, civil rights, individual rights, free and fair elections, ethical values and the rule of law.

    I do not support radical extremist groups of either the left or the right and deplore forms of terrorism that are used to intimate and force the will of one group over another.

    That said, it is entirely clear that you cannot articulate your position in a meaningful debate.

    I, for one, will not stand idly by as white supremacists, anti-semitic hate groups, the KKK, fascists, neo-nazis and other right wing extremists terrorize a community wearing the uniforms, symbols, flags and salutes of oppression.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 14-08-2017 at 06:57 AM.
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  80. #580

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    Trump totally silent for 48 hours about the terrorist attack.

    Meanwhile he attacks Ken Fraser within a hour when he quits the President's advisory Council over this right wing extremist attack.


    Trump fires back after the CEO of Merck resigned from his manufacturing council

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.768f9ad0a1a9
    The chief executive of Merck said Monday in a tweet that he was resigning from President Trump's American Manufacturing Council, saying he was doing so “as CEO of Merck and as a matter of personal conscience” and that “America's leaders must honor our fundamental values by clearly rejecting expressions of hatred, bigotry and group supremacy, which run counter to the American ideal that all people are created equal.”

    In the statement, Kenneth C. Frazier, one of the few African American CEOs in the Fortune 500, said, “I feel a responsibility to take a stand against intolerance and extremism” and touted the power of diversity. “Our country's strength stems from its diversity and the contributions made by men and women of different faiths, races, sexual orientations and political beliefs.”




    Within an hour after the statement was first issued, Trump tweeted his response. “Now that Ken Frazier of Merck Pharma has resigned from President's Manufacturing Council, he will have more time to LOWER RIPOFF DRUG PRICES!”



    At least Jeff Sessions has a backbone...


    Virginia car attack meets domestic terror definition: Sessions
    JONATHAN LEMIRE, BEDMINSTER, N.J. — The Associated Press
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle35980966/
    As President Donald Trump remained out of sight and silent, pressure mounted from both sides of the aisle for him to explicitly condemn white supremacists and hate groups involved in deadly, race-fuelled clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia.

    Trump, who has been at his New Jersey golf club on a working vacation, was set to make a one-day return to Washington on Monday to sign an executive action on China’s trade practices. But he will likely be unable to escape questions and criticism for his initial response to the Saturday’s violence, for which he blamed bigotry on “many sides.”

    His attorney general, Jeff Sessions, said Monday the incident in which a car plowed into a group of counter-protesters, killing one person, “does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute.”


    He told ABC’s “Good Morning America”: “You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation towards the most serious charges that can be brought, because this is an unequivocally unacceptable and evil attack that cannot be accepted in America.”
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  81. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Nothing you said makes any cognitive sense.

    It was very clear that there was a well planned alt-right March that wanted to protest the removal of a stature of General Robert E. Lee that had been lawfully decided by a democratically elected city council. Even I disagree with that decision but for entirely different reasons. I do not support removing of historic monuments, even those that represent oppression of a people and a person who lead a unlawful succession of States that lead to 500,000 military casualties and affected the lives of millions. Civil wars are a terrible tragedy. What I endorse is the placement of a directly opposing statue and memorial of the slavery issue and the African Americans who were the victims of the hatred and racist policies in all States that supported slavery. Even adding a memorial to the Union soldiers that bravely fought to keep America together and the rights of the slaves. That way you are not erasing or rewriting history of R. E. Lee, but using both memorials to educate the public and honor both sides of the conflict.

    It should be chartered that if one side decides to use any one of the memorials to become an idol or focus point of hatred and racism to disrespect of the other group, left or right, then their respective memorial should be taken away. It is all about respect.

    But that is not what happened.

    Instead a well organized and very symbolic march of a torch wielding and well armed mob in uniforms of white supremacists, anti-semites, neo-nazis, the KKK and other extremist hate groups assembled in a manner straight out of 1933 Germany and the lynch mobs and KKK rallies that were outlawed, reminiscent of 100 years ago who wanted to terrorize and oppress everyone again to push their agenda to roll back history and reverse the fortunes of the Civil War.

    I am not a leftist but a reasonable and articulate centrist that believes in the core principles of a free and democratic society based upon the Constitution, civil rights, individual rights, free and fair elections, ethical values and the rule of law.

    I do not support radical extremist groups of either the left or the right and deplore forms of terrorism that are used to intimate and force the will of one group over another.

    That said, it is entirely clear that you cannot articulate your position in a meaningful debate.

    I, for one, will not stand idly by as white supremacists, anti-semitic hate groups, the KKK, fascists, neo-nazis and other right wing extremists terrorize a community wearing the uniforms, symbols, flags and salutes of oppression.
    Your last statement pretty much sums it all up. Your becoming what you think to be. However, you cant tell an alcoholic he/she is one until they admit they are one. In your last sentence you basically admitted that the counter protests you admire so much were ahem, in the right, that they basically started the violence. I think I'm done with you on this thread.
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  82. #582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Your last statement pretty much sums it all up. Your becoming what you think to be. However, you cant tell an alcoholic he/she is one until they admit they are one. In your last sentence you basically admitted that the counter protests you admire so much were ahem, in the right, that they basically started the violence. I think I'm done with you on this thread.
    So, therefore you support the opposite? Your statements clearly indicate that you do.

    I would rather stand on the right side of history that values the rights of free people over an ideology of hatred, division and oppression.

    You support "white supremacists, anti-semitic hate groups, the KKK, fascists, neo-nazis and other right wing extremists terrorize a community wearing the uniforms, symbols, flags and salutes of oppression."

    Your last statement pretty much sums it all up.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 14-08-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Geez now he's mouthing off at Venezuela:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1AR2GR

    He must be feeling really threatened by something.
    Such an incredibly moronic, off-hand comment by Trump. The last thing that the opposition in Venezuela and the regional neighbors working towards a diplomatic solution need is the US President shooting his mouth off about possibly invading. That is Maduro's favorite thing to claim, that the country's economy is failing because of a secret war against it led by the US. All Trump is doing is fanning those flames. But he probably knows nothing about Venezuela or what their problems are, and figured he'd sound awesome if he started throwing around "military options" half a dozen times. What a complete and utter imbecile.

  84. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Your last statement pretty much sums it all up. Your becoming what you think to be. However, you cant tell an alcoholic he/she is one until they admit they are one. In your last sentence you basically admitted that the counter protests you admire so much were ahem, in the right, that they basically started the violence. I think I'm done with you on this thread.
    So, therefore you support the opposite? Your statements clearly indicate that you do.

    I don't support Neo Nazi's, or terrorist organizations


    I would rather stand on the right side of history that values the rights of free people over an ideology of hatred, division and oppression.

    Oppression? How about denying someone's right of Freedom of speech in a public gathering by shouting in their face. That's not only cowardly but oppression in its own right, sad.

    You support "white supremacists, anti-semitic hate groups, the KKK, fascists, neo-nazis and other right wing extremists terrorize a community wearing the uniforms, symbols, flags and salutes of oppression."

    Typical Edmonton PRT, attempting to put words into the mouths of others.

    Your last statement pretty much sums it all up.

    Your sounding like a broken record using my very words against me. # grasping at straws.

    I support the 1st amendment, not violence unless its
    absolutely necessary. What that protester did by slamming a car into a crowd was unconscionable and despicable. I do not condone slavery of any kind but during the time of the ACW, in the South MAYBE it was a necessary mean to an end. Remember, it was a different culture another time. I do not condone the mentality of mob violence as displayed by the counter protestors trying to suppress Kessler's 1st amendment. I am not a White supremacist, Neo Nazi. I am a Freemason and support those values, and a wana be electronic music producer. Anyway, I have to head out of here shortly for a Doctors appointment, so relax PRT if I don't get your blood pressure up three if I don't immediately respond right away.

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  85. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I was told, while in Charleston, SC, that the war was over money. The south had too much of it and the north didn't like it so they pulled the rug out from under them and kept them in relative poverty for the next 100 plus years.
    The South's entire economy and society was built upon slavery prior to the Civil War. They revolved around it, no different than ours does around oil. Except humans, deprived of all rights and dignity, were the engine of their society. So yes, of course Abolishment would lead to massive economic and social upheaval. As far as what the Civil War was about, it was definitely about slavery. Anyone claiming otherwise either doesn't know history, or is themselves a Confederate apologist.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin...ican_Civil_War

  86. #586

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    The President's statement today regarding the violent clashes between the far-right nutters and far-left nutters over the weekend was perfect: "Any and all individuals that acted criminally will be prosecuted."



    However, I see the media is already deep in the "Why didn't he say this sooner?" phase.

    Some have already begun the "But was it heartfelt enough?" phase.

    Next will be the "How come he didn't mention group ___________?" phase.

  87. #587

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    The president didn't make a statement until 2 days later, and it wasn't until he caved under enormous public pressure to say something before he finally made a statement. Yet the moment the 'fake news' says something about him, he's tweeting with in minutes.


    How MrClosetRacist above turns this around into anything else is just telling how much trump/alt-right/breitbart/infowars flavoured koolaid he has drank

    this president cares about two things. Himself, and his rich friends. Anything else is a lie used so he can continue to about the two things he cares about. This is another example of just that.

  88. #588

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    It's official, Godwin's Law is suspended for the duration.

    Mike Godwin‏
    @sfmnemonic


    By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.
    5:03 PM - 13 Aug 2017


    https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/statu...heads-nazis%2F

  89. #589

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    The president didn't make a statement until 2 days later, and it wasn't until he caved under enormous public pressure to say something before he finally made a statement. Yet the moment the 'fake news' says something about him, he's tweeting with in minutes.


    How MrClosetRacist above turns this around into anything else is just telling how much trump/alt-right/breitbart/infowars flavoured koolaid he has drank

    this president cares about two things. Himself, and his rich friends. Anything else is a lie used so he can continue to about the two things he cares about. This is another example of just that.
    And Trump couldn't just come out and make a statement. He felt it was necessary to first tout his economic policies. Yup, he lead off a statement denouncing racism with an ad saying how great he's doing (even though he's signed zero legislation that would affect the economy).

    Trump led off by talking about tax cuts and trade deals and taking credit for the strength of the economy, striking an off note before moving on to trying to sound presidential and concerned about racism.

    "CNN reports that "according to WH sources" Trump "insisted” on adding that opening about the economy. Which tells you something about how interested Trump was in standing up there and talking about racist violence being bad. (Not interested at all.)"

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...nd-KKK-are-bad
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 14-08-2017 at 01:39 PM.

  90. #590

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    Trump could not even call it a terrorist act. Then ran away from reporters when they asked questions during a ultra short press conference. Trump shot back weakly spouting about fake news organizations.

    He is a moral coward.


    Why Won't Trump Call Out Radical White Terrorism?
    It is precisely at moments like this that an American president should speak up directly on behalf of the American creed.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...sville/536703/
    On November 15, 2015, as the world grappled with the horrors of a multipronged ISIS attack in Paris, Donald Trump, who was then an improbable but officially declared candidate for the presidency, tweeted, “When will President Obama issue the words RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM? He can’t say it, and unless he will, the problem will not be solved!”

    Not the date on this past article

    Trump is quick to blame Muslims for terror attacks. He's slow when Muslims are the victims.
    Updated by Sarah Wildman Jun 6, 2017, 9:30am EDT
    https://www.vox.com/world/2017/6/6/1...terror-twitter
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 14-08-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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  91. #591

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    These are the people Trump refused to disavow during the election campaign and that it took three days before he's denounce them after the attack.

    This is his base.

    The Alt-Right’s Rebranding Effort Has Failed
    Some members attempted to pivot away from overt racism. Charlottesville shows that they were always white nationalists.


    The alt-right movement has sought over the past two years to rebrand white nationalism, lifting it out of the obscure corners of the website Stormfront and elevating it into the mainstream political discussion.


    In some ways the effort succeeded. President Trump’s campaign offered white nationalists a political home in the mainstream. They heard Trump’s hardline anti-immigration stances and repeated refusals to disavow racists as a dog whistle. The alt-right itself was media- and internet-savvy and appealed to a younger demographic. Its leaders became household names. Hillary Clinton even gave a speech about the movement.


    Two incidents over the past year show why the alt-right’s pivot failed. One is the infamous speech given by alt-right leader Richard Spencer at a conference last year, where The Atlantic recorded attendees giving Nazi salutes. The other is what happened in Charlottesville, Virginia, on Saturday, where a white-nationalist “Unite the Right” rally starring several of the alt-right’s leading lights turned violent. At the end of the day, three people had died, and at least 19 more were injured. The photos from Charlottesville show Confederate flags, Nazi insignia, and militia members with guns. David Duke was there. In the end, the alt-right never shed its association with older fascist and white-supremacist ideas and movements, and arguably never really tried.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...m_source=atlfb



  92. #592

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    I'm getting tired of being correct all the time.

  93. #593

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    This in the news

    VA governor defends Charlottesville response: Militia members had 'better' guns than police

    http://www.businessinsider.com/virgi...nalists-2017-8

    Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe defended the actions taken Saturday by state and local law enforcement in response to clashes between white nationalist protesters and counter-protesters in Charlottesville, VA.

    McAuliffe told The New York Times in an impromptu street interview Sunday morning that police in Charlottesville did their best considering the circumstances.


    “It’s easy to criticize, but I can tell you this, 80% of the people here had semiautomatic weapons," McAuliffe said.


    Law enforcement in Charlottesville have received widespread criticism from counterprotesters, bystanders, and participants of the white nationalist "Unite The Right" rally. Many called the police's handling of the event hands-off, often appearing outnumbered and waiting too long to break up skirmishes between protesters and counter-protesters.


    Former police officials in New York and Philadelphia made similar criticisms that, despite a large mobilization of law enforcement personnel — Charlottesville's mayor put the number at 1,000 — police failed to separate the clashing factions at the beginning of the event, allowing the violence to quickly grow out of hand.


    Though McAuliffe strongly commended law enforcement's handling of the event, he appeared to suggest that police were unprepared for who actually showed up to the rally.


    “You saw the militia walking down the street, you would have thought they were an army ... I was just talking to the State Police upstairs; [the militia members] had better equipment than our State Police had,” McAuliffe said. “And yet not a shot was fired, zero property damage.”


    McAuliffe's response that law enforcement's handling of the violence was successful because there were no bullets fired and "zero property damage" would appear to ignore that dozens were left injured and a 32-year-old woman, Heather Heyer, was killed when an apparent white supremacist plowed his car into a crowd.
    I will note that both sides were armed but the aggressors were definitely the right wing extremists. There are a lot of apologists that say the the right wing had their 1st Amendment rights violated by the counter protestors but if you look at the ideology of the right wing extremists, their stated goals are white supremacy including the oppression of minorities, anti-semitism, suppression of women, and the wholesale violation of established rights and laws.

    To this, the counter protesters acted in accordance with their beliefs to push back at the threats made by an army of armed militia.
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  94. #594

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I'm getting tired of being correct all the time.
    You and the President of Hate who says he is winning all the time. You must be tired of all that winning.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  95. #595
    C2E Continued Contributor
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    Default

    So according to KKozoriz above and PRT (line 550) "His silence on this issue and the White House 24 hours later not making a formal declaration that this was an act of terrorism is an overt message of support to the emboldened white supremacists, neo-nazis and ultra nationalists." Trump's base is white supremacists and he supports them.
    So does this mean that Obama's refusal to label Nidal Hassan's attack at Fort Hood as terrorism mean that Obama's base is Islamic terrorists and his labelling of the Ft Hood attack as "workplace violence" was actually a stand in support of Islamic Jihad?

  96. #596

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    So much winning.

    Trump hits highest disapproval rating yet in Gallup's daily tracking poll

    On Monday, Trump hit 61 percent disapproval—the highest of his presidency thus far. How does that compare to presidents past? Carter never hit it. Reagan never hit it. George H.W. Bush never hit it. Clinton never hit it. Barack Obama never hit it.


    George W. Bush hit it but only after around 1,920 days in office. Trump did it in just 207 days!

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/201...-tracking-poll

  97. #597

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    ^^ Because not all mass shootings and violent attacks are terrorism.

    ter·ror·ism
    noun
    the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political or ideology aims.

    The Pentagon argued that charging Hasan with terrorism was not possible within the military justice system and that such action could harm the military prosecutors' ability to sustain a guilty verdict against Hasan
    An analyst of terror investigations, Carl Tobias, opined that the attack did not fit the profile of terrorism, and was more similar to the Virginia Tech massacre, committed by a student believed to be severely mentally ill.
    Brian Levin of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism wrote that the case sits at the crossroads of crime, terrorism and mental distress.
    The FBI found no evidence to indicate Hasan had any co-conspirators or was part of a broader terrorist plot, classifying him as a homegrown violent extremist.[145][146] Conversely, the Defense Department currently classifies Hasan's attack as an act of workplace violence and would not make further statements until the court martial.
    Sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting
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  98. #598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    So according to KKozoriz above and PRT (line 550) "His silence on this issue and the White House 24 hours later not making a formal declaration that this was an act of terrorism is an overt message of support to the emboldened white supremacists, neo-nazis and ultra nationalists." Trump's base is white supremacists and he supports them.
    So does this mean that Obama's refusal to label Nidal Hassan's attack at Fort Hood as terrorism mean that Obama's base is Islamic terrorists and his labelling of the Ft Hood attack as "workplace violence" was actually a stand in support of Islamic Jihad?
    Trump and his dwindling fan base would certtainly like everyone to think so

  99. #599
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
    So according to KKozoriz above and PRT (line 550) "His silence on this issue and the White House 24 hours later not making a formal declaration that this was an act of terrorism is an overt message of support to the emboldened white supremacists, neo-nazis and ultra nationalists." Trump's base is white supremacists and he supports them.
    So does this mean that Obama's refusal to label Nidal Hassan's attack at Fort Hood as terrorism mean that Obama's base is Islamic terrorists and his labelling of the Ft Hood attack as "workplace violence" was actually a stand in support of Islamic Jihad?
    No, not at all. Besides, Trump has said something, Obama never did..

    The tweet from our PM was pretty generic as well.

  100. #600
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    /\/\/\ A direct quote from PRT's Wikipedia link:
    "Days after the shooting, reports in the media revealed that a Joint Terrorism Task Force had been aware of a series of e-mails between Hasan and the Yemen-based imam Anwar al-Awlaki, who had been monitored by the NSA as a security threat, and that Hasan's colleagues had been aware of his increasing radicalization for several years."
    Also from the same article:
    "Senator Joe Lieberman called for a probe by the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, which he chairs. Lieberman said "it's premature to reach conclusions about what motivated Hasan ... I think it's very important to let the Army and the FBI go forward with this investigation before we reach any conclusions."[132][133] Two weeks later, when opening his committee's hearings, Lieberman labeled the shooting "the most destructive terrorist attack on America since September 11, 2001."[134]"
    So the Democrat Chair of the Senate Commitee on Homeland security calls it a terrorist attack but Obama didn't, I guess Obama didn't want to alienate his base.

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