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Thread: Omar Khadr judgment/settlement

  1. #901
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    I agree, something doesn't quite add up. He married Zaynab in 2009, well after 9/11, her political views were very well known by then. She described her 5 years living with the Taliban "the best years of her life".

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Something doesn't add up. It just doesn't..oh well, I just hope he doesn't sue. I dont think JT would be stupid enough to pay him
    I get the civil rights thing bla bla bla, but anyone one that gives "legal council" to a terrorist is like aiding & abetting a criminal is one themselves. If the Lawyer that got his commission from the Khadr case thinks he can do the same here is no different then aiding & abetting terrorists is one him/herself. Its a slippery slope to be sure. Knowing boy blunder he'd pay in this case.
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  3. #903

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    The slippery slope is deciding that certain people can be summarily stripped of their legal rights just because we've decided that their type is non-desirable.
    If you can decide that a Terrorist deserves no rights then you can use the same logic to strip rights from other groups.

    Who's undesirable next? We've* done Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Communists, Anarchists, Terrorists, Chinese, Japanese, Black, Natives, Irish, Homosexuals, Hutterites, mennonites, Quakers...

    Maybe it's your turn tomorrow.






    *We is anglo nations in the time of N American Colonization to today.
    There can only be one.

  4. #904

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    ^Everybody in a just society is entitled to representation in criminal cases. To say a defense lawyer who takes a rapist/wife beater/murderer etc. is somehow the same as his client is just plain ludicrous. A defence lawyer is needed to make sure his client gets a fair trial and that any punishment meted out is fair. Doctors in emergency rooms don't get to turn down treating patients because of what they have done or who they are. Being 'legal council' to anyone is not aiding and abetting. By your reasoning people who buy lottery tickets are aiding and abetting compulsive gamblers or buying junk food aides other people to become overweight. Get real.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The slippery slope is deciding that certain people can be summarily stripped of their legal rights just because we've decided that their type is non-desirable.
    If you can decide that a Terrorist deserves no rights then you can use the same logic to strip rights from other groups.

    Who's undesirable next? We've* done Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Communists, Anarchists, Terrorists, Chinese, Japanese, Black, Natives, Irish, Homosexuals, Hutterites, mennonites, Quakers...

    Maybe it's your turn tomorrow.






    *We is anglo nations in the time of N American Colonization to today.
    A terrorist is not the same as Jews etc( those you mention) that's a ridiculous
    comparison!

  6. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The slippery slope is deciding that certain people can be summarily stripped of their legal rights just because we've decided that their type is non-desirable.
    If you can decide that a Terrorist deserves no rights then you can use the same logic to strip rights from other groups.

    Who's undesirable next? We've* done Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Communists, Anarchists, Terrorists, Chinese, Japanese, Black, Natives, Irish, Homosexuals, Hutterites, mennonites, Quakers...

    Maybe it's your turn tomorrow.






    *We is anglo nations in the time of N American Colonization to today.
    Maybe I should rephrase this: Known Islamic terrorists.
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  7. #907

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    So IRA terrorists get a fair trial but ISIS ones don't? Totally sounds fair to me.

    How do we decide if they're known? How about a fair trial? Anything less than is injustice.
    Last edited by Highlander II; 13-10-2017 at 03:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    A terrorist is not the same as Jews etc( those you mention) that's a ridiculous
    comparison!
    Ever hear of the Irgun?

    Probably not given the lack of any rational content in your posts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The slippery slope is deciding that certain people can be summarily stripped of their legal rights just because we've decided that their type is non-desirable.
    If you can decide that a Terrorist deserves no rights then you can use the same logic to strip rights from other groups.

    Who's undesirable next? We've* done Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Communists, Anarchists, Terrorists, Chinese, Japanese, Black, Natives, Irish, Homosexuals, Hutterites, mennonites, Quakers...

    Maybe it's your turn tomorrow.






    *We is anglo nations in the time of N American Colonization to today.
    Maybe I should rephrase this: Known Islamic terrorists.
    Sounds right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    So IRA terrorists get a fair trial but ISIS ones don't? Totally sounds fair to me.

    How do we decide if they're known? How about a fair trial? Anything less than is injustice.
    Maybe your not aware but G7 intel are all over this. They know more then we think. And if your sympathetic to terrorists groups like ISIS, maybe you're one of them I don't know.

    Islamic terrorist groups are out to do one thing: Install Sharai law world wide at any cost. These groups, including their sympathisers and supports do not deserve any rights, period under our Laws.
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  11. #911

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    So IRA terrorists get a fair trial but ISIS ones don't? Totally sounds fair to me.

    How do we decide if they're known? How about a fair trial? Anything less than is injustice.
    Maybe your not aware but G7 intel are all over this. They know more then we think. And if your sympathetic to terrorists groups like ISIS, maybe you're one of them I don't know.

    Islamic terrorist groups are out to do one thing: Install Sharai law world wide at any cost. These groups, including their sympathisers and supports do not deserve any rights, period under our Laws.
    My guess is that it wouldn’t just be Sharia law but their interpretation of it - which can be something altogether different and downright evil depending on the fanaticism of those enforcing their beliefs under the guise of the sword of God / Allah. Correction: though appropriate, “sword” was a typo and should have been “word” of God / Allah. Maybe God maybe me do it.



    Something else to fear:
    Canon law of the Catholic Church - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_...atholic_Church
    Last edited by KC; 14-10-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  12. #912

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    He wasn't exactly hitchhiking in a random area though when you consider his ex-father-in-law was a very active Taliban member and extremely close to Osama bin Laden. This doesn't mean he is a terrorist or supports terrorism.
    Then he refused to fly on a US military flight to USA, as he is worried he might be arrested or interrogated, but will fly a Canadian commercial airline to Canada.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ban-freed.html

    His family just said, it wasn't a very wise decision to go to where they went for their hols, ya think?

    JT refuses to talk about it..lol. I bet he does,
    I hear Kabul and Pyongyang are wonderful at this time of year, but you know for some reason I think I'll pass. Maybe he encountered his ex father in law on his trek through the Afghanistan country side - awkward. I think that might not have gone well for him.
    Possibly not...
    Joshua Boyle: He’s perhaps best known for his link to Khadr family – Ottawa Citizen

    http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...o-khadr-family
    One more thing. One never knows when people caught up in these horrific situations are in actuality working for ‘our’ side (CSIS or allied agencies like CIA, etc.).

    As they say: Tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”. It takes all three to come to a correct judgement. Looking at the facts alone can lead to entirely wrong conclusions when not all facts are known or when non-facts influence one’s perceptions of some facts.
    Last edited by KC; 14-10-2017 at 10:32 AM.

  13. #913

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    Wickedness this way comes

    More details will be needed but some people let their religious ideologies justify the taking of human lives and harming other lives.


    Freed hostage Joshua Boyle says captors killed infant daughter, raped his wife - World - CBC News

    “...

    “Boyle didn't provide specific details but said the "stupidity and evil of the Haqqani network's kidnapping of a pilgrim and his heavily pregnant wife engaged in helping ordinary villagers in Taliban-controlled regions of Afghanistan was eclipsed only by the stupidity and evil of authorizing the murder of my infant daughter, martyr Boyle, as retaliation for my repeated refusal to accept an offer that the criminal miscreants of the Haqqani network had made to me."

    He said he wants justice and won't allow the Haqqani network to weaken his family's commitment to "do the right thing, no matter the cost." ...”


    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/boyle-c...ndon-1.4353052
    Last edited by KC; 14-10-2017 at 09:35 AM.

  14. #914

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    So IRA terrorists get a fair trial but ISIS ones don't? Totally sounds fair to me.

    How do we decide if they're known? How about a fair trial? Anything less than is injustice.
    Interesting parallel. Can you imagine if Russia flew drone strikes against IRA terrorists and accidently launched missiles at a wedding party?
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    Boyle sure jumped out in front of this story. They weren't Muslims, not even bad Muslims, they were pagans. He demands justice after they killed his daughter and raped his wife. Funny how all the other children lived?
    Then, they only captured them because his wife was pregnant.
    They weren't hiking, they went to a dangerous part where no aid workers dared to go.
    I hope TPTB research all he has said, because I'm not buying it..
    I still waiting for Trudeau to give them cash! I bet Khadrs lawyer has already been in touch!

  16. #916

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    You really believe in what you post?

    You won't see any claims against the government at all.
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  17. #917
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    He named his daughter Martyr. Seems odd to me. I think he's some kind of nut. I think we will see something happen in the future to confirm it. Stand by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Boyle sure jumped out in front of this story. They weren't Muslims, not even bad Muslims, they were pagans. He demands justice after they killed his daughter and raped his wife. Funny how all the other children lived?
    Then, they only captured them because his wife was pregnant.
    They weren't hiking, they went to a dangerous part where no aid workers dared to go.
    I hope TPTB research all he has said, because I'm not buying it..
    I still waiting for Trudeau to give them cash! I bet Khadrs lawyer has already been in touch!
    Something about this whole story doesn't add up. Notice he still wore a beard even in the presser. You'd think the first thing he'd have done was too shave.
    But Muslims don't shave.
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  19. #919

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    Maybe he spent 5 years watching Duck Dynasty reruns.
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    ^^
    most musilms don’t shave although many of those that don’t shave do trim/crop their beards quite short. regardless of whether they are trimmed or not however, the choice of whether or not to shave is largely a personal one outside of some sects. those sects who do attempt to ban it are emulating the appearance of the prophet mohammed and purported sayings but there is no edict in the koran itself that bans shaving.
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  21. #921

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^^
    most musilms don’t shave although many of those that don’t shave do trim/crop their beards quite short. regardless of whether they are trimmed or not however, the choice of whether or not to shave is largely a personal one outside of some sects. those sects who do attempt to ban it are emulating the appearance of the prophet mohammed and purported sayings but there is no edict in the koran itself that bans shaving.
    Sounds to me like growing a beard to emulate Mohammed would essentially be practicing idolatry.

  22. #922

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Maybe he spent 5 years watching Duck Dynasty reruns.
    Yup, gotta wonder about those dynasty guys and any possible terrorist connections they may have. Did they have guns on that show?

  23. #923

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    They have guns and look like terrorists to me. Maybe they should send them back to where they came from...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    They have guns and look like terrorists to me. Maybe they should send them back to where they came from...
    remind me again what terrorists look like?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_...e:Nichols2.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Boyle sure jumped out in front of this story. They weren't Muslims, not even bad Muslims, they were pagans. He demands justice after they killed his daughter and raped his wife. Funny how all the other children lived?
    Then, they only captured them because his wife was pregnant.
    They weren't hiking, they went to a dangerous part where no aid workers dared to go.
    I hope TPTB research all he has said, because I'm not buying it..
    I still waiting for Trudeau to give them cash! I bet Khadrs lawyer has already been in touch!
    Something about this whole story doesn't add up. Notice he still wore a beard even in the presser. You'd think the first thing he'd have done was too shave.
    But Muslims don't shave.
    I don't know about that, but I hope they keep him on the radar, I think he's full of it..going into a war zone to help the poor. Total BS!

  26. #926

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    ^^No silly. Everyone knows that all Muslims have beards and all people with beards are Muslims. Much like these famous Muslim beard growing terrorists.

    Abraham Lincoln
    Karl Marx
    Mr. T
    Earnest Hemingway
    Chuck Darwin
    Santa Claus

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  27. #927

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    They have guns and look like terrorists to me. Maybe they should send them back to where they came from...
    remind me again what terrorists look like?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_...e:Nichols2.jpg
    Well, everyone knows, terrorists look like Duck Dynasty guys. If someone doesn’t, then they aren’t terrorists are they, but rather bombers, mass murderers, demented people, or whatever, but not terrorists. Look at the Vegas shooter. Apparently met the state’s definition of committing an act of terror but he’s not bring called a terrorist.



    Heres an interesting article, I mostly agree with, however I’d simply ask: if you held a similar concert in that same location next week would 20,000 people attend? The effect has not been a judgment by people that this was just a one-off event.

    People will fear that this guy has changed everything in terms of large groupings of people within shooting range of a hotel. Hence even the NRA criticizing bump stocks.

    What makes a mass shooting count as terrorism? - Futurity

    http://www.futurity.org/mass-shootin...lence-1573452/
    Last edited by KC; 14-10-2017 at 08:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Something about this whole story doesn't add up. Notice he still wore a beard even in the presser. You'd think the first thing he'd have done was too shave.
    But Muslims don't shave.
    He had the beard before though, and they both look a LOT thinner.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/1374898/c...-joshua-boyle/

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    They have guns and look like terrorists to me. Maybe they should send them back to where they came from...
    remind me again what terrorists look like?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_...e:Nichols2.jpg
    Well, everyone knows, terrorists look like Duck Dynasty guys. If someone doesn’t, then they aren’t terrorists are they, but rather bombers, mass murderers, demented people, or whatever, but not terrorists. Look at the Vegas shooter. Apparently met the state’s definition of committing an act of terror but he’s not bring called a terrorist
    So now we can tell somebody is a terrorist because how they dress and look?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Something about this whole story doesn't add up. Notice he still wore a beard even in the presser. You'd think the first thing he'd have done was too shave.
    But Muslims don't shave.
    He had the beard before though, and they both look a LOT thinner.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/1374898/c...-joshua-boyle/
    Well she was 7 months pregnant. She looks awful right now, its her I feel the most sorry for..

  31. #931
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    ^ Me too. Imagine going through a forced abortion. They seem like a nice couple in this photograph.
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  32. #932

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    So now we can tell somebody is a terrorist because how they dress and look?
    Well according to this person.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Something about this whole story doesn't add up. Notice he still wore a beard even in the presser. You'd think the first thing he'd have done was too shave.
    But Muslims don't shave.
    All the beard jokes were sarcastic comments to your prejudiced comments that Muslims don't shave. You infer that this somehow makes him suspect. You even question his religion. You sound like MrOilers

    A far as I heard, Canada is a free country and if Boyle wants to grow his beard, that is his choice.

    Get it?

    Got it?

    Good!
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-10-2017 at 06:55 AM.
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  33. #933
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    Not that I'm siding with the Taliban or anything but they have a different version:
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  34. #934

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    Right...

    And kidnapping terrorists that held a family for 5 years "were concerned for their safety"

    I think their last words were "kill the hostages!"
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  35. #935

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Not that I'm siding with the Taliban or anything but they have a different version:
    As they say: Who are you going to believe? ( The victim or the criminal? )

    Moreover the Taliban guy speaks with a spokesman tongue. When has anyone ever fully believed what a spokesman says - they aren't in the job to tell the truth.

  36. #936

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Something about this whole story doesn't add up. Notice he still wore a beard even in the presser. You'd think the first thing he'd have done was too shave.
    But Muslims don't shave.
    He had the beard before though, and they both look a LOT thinner.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/1374898/c...-joshua-boyle/
    Well she was 7 months pregnant. She looks awful right now, its her I feel the most sorry for..
    ‘Feel sorry for her...’

    Yeah and I noted in the interviews it’s the husbands (her’s and her mother’s) doing the speaking and possibly making the decisions. Per one interview; the father said ‘he had an issue with the guy so they aren’t yet making plans to visit them in Canada...’. Her father is spot on about the son-in-law taking of his daughter into risky territory but despite it all to not put everything aside to see the daughter and new grandchildren asap? Sounds to me more like what a supreme a-hole would do. I wonder what the wives are thinking, if they agree or if the husbands are running the show. (As a result, I also wonder about any dynamics involved in calling their dead child: Martyr.)


    As an aside, I remember reading where the extremists in the Middle East and the religious fundamentalists in the US are somewhat aligned due to their conservative beliefs that often go against the west’s human rights advances like gay marriage etc. I thought that was interesting. So seeing the upbringing of people is interesting in terms of their influences and possible drivers of their behaviours. Note some of the comments chosen for, and from, this article:


    Canadian held in Afghanistan: Who is Joshua Boyle? | Globalnews.ca

    Excerpts:

    Boyle had a fascination with terrorism, Canadian counterterrorism and security.

    “Anything related to terrorism on Wikipedia, I wrote, pretty much,” the University of Waterloo graduate told the Globe and Mail in May 2009.
    ...

    Boyle said his parents, both fundamentalist Christians who live in Ottawa, supported his relationship with Khadr.

    “My family is supportive of my marriage and of their extended family, and they believe in the need for justice for all Canadian citizens. We have faith in God and we have faith in justice and we have faith in the Canadian people to do the right thing,” he told Maclean’s. ...

    https://globalnews.ca/news/1374898/c...-joshua-boyle/


    Last edited by KC; 15-10-2017 at 09:58 AM.

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    I'd set that aside to see my daughter, and my grandchildren. Maybe they are giving them some much needs sleep time. I suspect she has been in contact with her family.
    We sure hear a lot from him!

  38. #938

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    So now we can tell somebody is a terrorist because how they dress and look?
    Well according to this person.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Something about this whole story doesn't add up. Notice he still wore a beard even in the presser. You'd think the first thing he'd have done was too shave.
    But Muslims don't shave.
    All the beard jokes were sarcastic comments to your prejudiced comments that Muslims don't shave. You infer that this somehow makes him suspect. You even question his religion. You sound like MrOilers

    A far as I heard, Canada is a free country and if Boyle wants to grow his beard, that is his choice.

    Get it?

    Got it?

    Good!

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^No silly. Everyone knows that all Muslims have beards and all people with beards are Muslims. Much like these famous Muslim beard growing terrorists.

    Abraham Lincoln
    Karl Marx
    Mr. T
    Earnest Hemingway
    Chuck Darwin
    Santa Claus

    Seeing someone with a face covering naturally raises people’s suspicions. Well earned suspicions. Think Abraham Lincoln - war monger and involved in a successful assassination, Hitler - say no more, Marx, Darwin - disseminators of revolutionary disruptive ideas, Hemingway - more of those idea things, plus directly involved in a suicide. Mr. T - glorifying violence and bling. Santa? Oh, no one wants to touch that one - there’s so many suspicions things about Santa’s activities (kids, elf’s, recluse, night-time visits, industrial-toy manufacturer complex, free giveaways to all socialist,... coal industry supporter...)

    And it’s not just face coverings. Guys wearing hoodies, muscle shirts, chains, leather coats, or bow ties naturally raise public suspicions of radicalism or violent tendencies too.

    Hipsters? Hmm.
    Last edited by KC; 15-10-2017 at 12:14 PM.

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    Hipsters are the scariest. They hate the rest of us. Haters! lol

  40. #940

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Hipsters are the scariest. They hate the rest of us. Haters! lol
    Pure deviants! Can’t dress like normal people, can’t assimilate. It’s a slippery slope to outspokenism and then radical violence.

    Just like anybody born in the 1950s and 60s. They all have that look you know. Greying and wrinkly. Why don’t they look like normal people. Keep your eye on them, as you never know when they’ll direct their hatred at a crowd of normal people just trying to enjoy normal music or something. And have you ever heard a bingo hall manager, cruiseline entertainment director or casino operator come out publicly to denounce the extremism fomenting in their establishments?
    Last edited by KC; 15-10-2017 at 01:12 PM.

  41. #941

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    And then there are those C2E posters

    As in See-Too-Extremist.

    To them it is more than a forum. It is a cult!
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    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/taliban...ions-1.3633018

    I don't see them raping his wife of killing their daughter.Are they [email protected], yes..but Boyle just doesn't come across as being truthful..jmho of course

  43. #943

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    The whole series of events are strange and I will sit back until more facts come out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/taliban...ions-1.3633018

    I don't see them raping his wife of killing their daughter.Are they [email protected], yes..but Boyle just doesn't come across as being truthful..jmho of course
    Notice how he kept on calling them stupid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/taliban...ions-1.3633018

    I don't see them raping his wife of killing their daughter.Are they [email protected], yes..but Boyle just doesn't come across as being truthful..jmho of course
    Notice how he kept on calling them stupid.
    Yes. Plus as I said upthread, he was smart enough to get ahead of the story, knowing full well, someone would not query his story, as in you believe the Taliban over me? He'll slip up, watch!

  46. #946

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/taliban...ions-1.3633018

    I don't see them raping his wife of killing their daughter.Are they [email protected], yes..but Boyle just doesn't come across as being truthful..jmho of course
    He and his wife apparently didn’t either.

    So do you agree with this:


    Taliban deny rape, murder accusations by freed Canadian hostage Joshua Boyle | Toronto Star

    Excerpt:

    “Mujahid says Boyle and Coleman are now “in the hands of the enemy”, and the statement Boyle gave was “force fed” to him.”


    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...pert-says.html
    Last edited by KC; 15-10-2017 at 09:21 PM.

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    I'm getting more inclined to believe their story, both look like they've been living through hell for the past few years.

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    I haven't heard their story, just his! I'll wait...

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    After seeing the interview with him on The National I believe him more. A lot of tears.

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    Wondering what the thoughts are on this?

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tort...lion-1.4372689

    I mean these were productive members of society who were wrongly accused and had to go through hell, for no reason. I don't know about the dollar value, but then again I've never been tortured in a Syrian jail.

    These guys never were terrorists, never threw grenades or made bombs.

  51. #951

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    Upon reading the article if this is true.............

    A 2008 federal inquiry found the actions of Canadian officials contributed indirectly to the torture of three men.
    "They caused the torture to happen, they caused the detention to happen," Almalki told CBC's The Fifth Estate in June 2016. "They caused huge losses in my business. My brothers, their lives got destroyed. My kids, their lives got destroyed."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tort...lion-1.4372689


    ..........what happened to those Canadian officials?. Did they get fired, reprimanded, suspended?.

    On another note. The Libs (Tater Tot in particular) got hammered for the Khadr settlement. Should be interesting what hue and cry is going follow this. One more nail in the Libs coffin no doubt.
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  52. #952

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Upon reading the article if this is true.............

    A 2008 federal inquiry found the actions of Canadian officials contributed indirectly to the torture of three men.
    "They caused the torture to happen, they caused the detention to happen," Almalki told CBC's The Fifth Estate in June 2016. "They caused huge losses in my business. My brothers, their lives got destroyed. My kids, their lives got destroyed."

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tort...lion-1.4372689


    ..........what happened to those Canadian officials?. Did they get fired, reprimanded, suspended?.

    On another note. The Libs (Tater Tot in particular) got hammered for the Khadr settlement. Should be interesting what hue and cry is going follow this. One more nail in the Libs coffin no doubt.
    Back in 2008. Hmm. So which government failed? Liberal or PC?

    Or was it the fault or the Liberals back in the early 2000s?
    Last edited by KC; 26-10-2017 at 02:04 PM.

  53. #953

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    ^Whatever 'government' was in at the time did the wrong thing. What happened to the people who let it happen?.
    The payout is being paid out under the Liberal watch and that's all some people are going to take from this.
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    i think much of the angst most canadians feel regarding the settlement with khadr isn't paying a settlement to khadr. he was a victim of not having his rights protected by his government. but our first nations residential school survivors also received a settlement from the government of canada for subjecting them to abuse and not adequately protecting their rights.

    but if you were a residential school survivor, you were entitled to $10,000 for the first school year (or part of a school year) involved, plus $3,000 for each school year (or part of a school year) involved after the first one but only if you lived at and didn't just attend the school. so a residential school survivor of 9 years of hell would get $34,000 plus an allowance for proven sexual or serious physical abuses - or other abuses that caused serious psychological effects - of between $5,000 and $275,000 per for a maximum additional amount of $430,000.

    so where the victims were/are children in the actual care of the government of canada for generations, there might be a $464,000 maximum settlement.

    but khadr's human rights violations - even though the abuse was not actually committed by the government of canada and were also the result of his families and his own actions - were deemed to be worthy of a $10,500,000 settlement.

    i don't think it's a conservative or a liberal question as to who was responsible at the time the violation took place as much as it is one of relative fairness in the resulting consequences and by whom and how that was determined.
    Last edited by kcantor; 26-10-2017 at 02:40 PM.
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  56. #956

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    ^the angst felt by most Canadians WAS the payment of $10.5 million paid out to Khadr. Most Canadians did not get past their 'he's a terrorist' rhetoric to grasp what had happened to him.
    Then comparing what Khadr go to the residential school victims. As tragic as it was what happened to our indigenous people they were represented in court by various lawyers and council. Settlements were approved by all parties at the table. Weather people think it was fair or not that is what was settle on. Do you think that the residential school inquiry should be reopened and bigger settlements aimed for?.
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    Actually the angst felt by most Canadians is that if he was a citizen of pretty much any other continent other than North America, then he would have got a bullet in the head, his sorry azz corpse would have been pi$$ed on, and his carcass would have been left on the sand dunes for maggots to feast on.

    And nobody would have ever heard of or given a flying fuq about some omar.

    Last edited by Top_Dawg; 26-10-2017 at 03:33 PM.

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    ^^

    you're taking my sentiment somewhat backwards...

    yes, the indigenous victims of our residential school system were represented by lawyers and council and so was khadr.

    but one of the mainstays of our legal system is precedent and what khadr was given was disproportionate to the precedents previously set for thousands of other canadians who were victims of similar actions.

    whether i think the precedent was fair or not is not the point. the point is the government of canada set the precedent and then chose to ignore it in what they elected to give to khadr.
    Last edited by kcantor; 26-10-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Actually the angst felt by most Canadians is that if he was a citizen of pretty much any other continent other than North America, then he would have got a bullet in the head, his sorry azz corpse would have been pi$$ed on, and his carcass would have been left on the sand dunes for maggots to feast on.

    And nobody would have ever heard of or given a flying fuq about some omar.

    while that might be true, it's also true than in many other countries you could get a bullet in the head, your sorry azz corpse pi$$ed on, and your carcass left on the sand dunes for maggots to feast on just because someone didn't like the colour of your hair or perhaps did like your boots or your watch. that shouldn't make that same behaviour acceptable here.
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  60. #960

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you're taking my sentiment somewhat backwards...

    yes, the indigenous victims of our residential school system were represented by lawyers and council and so was khadr.

    but one of the mainstays of our legal system is precedent and what khadr was given was disproportionate to the precedents previously set for thousands of other canadians who were victims of similar actions.

    whether i think the precedent was fair or not is not the point. the point is the government of canada set the precedent and then chose to ignore it in what they elected to give to khadr.
    The precedents for giving victims of torture was already being set in another country. I should imagine Kadhr's lawyers were playing close attention to this:
    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...obeandmail.com while thinking out their strategy for Kadhr. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that the Canadian government set a precedent of Kadhr and then ignored it. What figures did the government bandy about before coming up with the final amount or are you just making that up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you're taking my sentiment somewhat backwards...

    yes, the indigenous victims of our residential school system were represented by lawyers and council and so was khadr.

    but one of the mainstays of our legal system is precedent and what khadr was given was disproportionate to the precedents previously set for thousands of other canadians who were victims of similar actions.

    whether i think the precedent was fair or not is not the point. the point is the government of canada set the precedent and then chose to ignore it in what they elected to give to khadr.
    The precedents for giving victims of torture was already being set in another country. I should imagine Kadhr's lawyers were playing close attention to this:
    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...obeandmail.com while thinking out their strategy for Kadhr. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that the Canadian government set a precedent of Kadhr and then ignored it. What figures did the government bandy about before coming up with the final amount or are you just making that up.
    again you're taking my comments backwards - the truth and reconciliation agreement was reached in 2007 and should have been the canadian precedent for khadr's settlement a decade later.
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  62. #962

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    ^so what you are saying is that the Residential School Settlement should have been the precedent for Kadhr's pay out.
    I'm not totally agreeing with you but I guess some people will. Then again, some people are (and do) argue that Kadhr should have got nothing.
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  63. #963

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Actually the angst felt by most Canadians is that if he was a citizen of pretty much any other continent other than North America, then he would have got a bullet in the head, his sorry azz corpse would have been pi$$ed on, and his carcass would have been left on the sand dunes for maggots to feast on.

    And nobody would have ever heard of or given a flying fuq about some omar.

    while that might be true, it's also true than in many other countries you could get a bullet in the head, your sorry azz corpse pi$$ed on, and your carcass left on the sand dunes for maggots to feast on just because someone didn't like the colour of your hair or perhaps did like your boots or your watch. that shouldn't make that same behaviour acceptable here.
    Its a consequence though, when people see injustice with how one Canadian is treated versus another Canadian, then the "easy" answer is to avoid the problem, and we see that then happening now (I posted this in another thread). Basically, western politicians are saying, why would I want to bring back a citizen who is going to be very expensive to legally try, politically dynamite if some goes wrong and a payout required per some supposed international standard:

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Not surprising, much better than paying them 10m dollars when their charter rights are broken or spending a fortune enriching lawyers / courts, a bullet is a lot cheaper:

    http://nationalpost.com/news/world/f...death-in-raqqa

    The forces fighting the remnants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant in Syria have tacit instructions on dealing with the foreigners who joined the extremist group by the thousands: Kill them on the battlefield.

    As they made their last stand in the northern Syrian city of Raqqa, an estimated 300 extremists holed up in and around a sports stadium and a hospital argued among themselves about whether to surrender, according to Kurdish commanders leading the forces that closed in. The final days were brutal — 75 coalition airstrikes in 48 hours and a flurry of desperate ISIL car bombs that were easily spotted in the sliver of devastated landscape still under militant control.

    No government publicly expressed concern about the fate of its citizens who left and joined the Islamic State fighters plotting attacks at home and abroad. In France, which has suffered repeated violence claimed by the ISIL — including the Nov. 13, 2015, attacks in Paris — Defence Minister Florence Parly was among the few to say it aloud.

    “If the jihadis perish in this fight, I would say that’s for the best,” Parly told Europe 1 radio last week.

    Those were the orders, according to the U.S.

    “Our mission is to make sure that any foreign fighter who is here, who joined ISIS from a foreign country and came into Syria, they will die here in Syria,”
    said Brett McGurk, the top U.S. envoy for the anti-ISIL coalition, in an interview with Dubai-based Al-Aan television.

    “So if they’re in Raqqa, they’re going to die in Raqqa,” he said.

    The coalition has given names and photos to the Kurdish fighters to identify the foreign jihadis, who are seen as a threat back home and a burden on their justice systems, according to a commander with the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces. The commander said his U.S.-backed fighters are checking for wanted men among the dead or the few foreigners among the captured.
    Its great for Liberal do-gooders to somehow convince themselves that "complicity" to "torture" is far worse than ripping children from their families and throwing them into abusive schools, but I don't think that's what most normal people think. The end result is that future "Khadrs", be they "children" or "adults", who may have been captured, and given a reasonable punishment at a reasonable cost, are instead just put down.
    Last edited by moahunter; 26-10-2017 at 05:30 PM.

  64. #964

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    David Millgard, wrongly convicted of murder received $10 million in compensation from the Canadian Government. His mother Joyce received $750,000. This was in 1999.
    One could say that a 'precedent' had been set with that. If that is the case why did all parties involved in the Residential School Inquiry settle for what they did.
    They had their chance and settled for less.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/milgaa...ation-1.174896
    Last edited by Gemini; 26-10-2017 at 05:37 PM.
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  65. #965

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    Thanks Gemini. Saved me from writing a similar post. Let's not let this thread continue with the race baiting and whole sidebar issues. Omar was a case of the government knowing better but was deliberately allowing the torture and confinement when it was clearly illegal and exposed early on.

    The residential school issue was also wrong but happened at an earlier time without the legal and ethical protections of the Charter. The Charter clearly defines people's rights and is not retroactive.

    Life is not fair. Some people get millions in wrongful death settlements. Others get nearly nothing. In some provinces you have no fault insurance with fixed caps. But of you get killed in the workplace you can sue for millions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    David Millgard, wrongly convicted of murder received $10 million in compensation from the Canadian Government. His mother Joyce received $750,000. This was in 1999.
    One could say that a 'precedent' had been set with that. If that is the case why did all parties involved in the Residential School Inquiry settle for what they did.
    They had their chance and settled for less.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/milgaa...ation-1.174896
    millgard spent 23 years in a canadian prison for a wrongful criminal conviction. he didn’t receive a settlement for a human/charter rights violation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Thanks Gemini. Saved me from writing a similar post. Let's not let this thread continue with the race baiting and whole sidebar issues. Omar was a case of the government knowing better but was deliberately allowing the torture and confinement when it was clearly illegal and exposed early on.

    The residential school issue was also wrong but happened at an earlier time without the legal and ethical protections of the Charter. The Charter clearly defines people's rights and is not retroactive.

    Life is not fair. Some people get millions in wrongful death settlements. Others get nearly nothing. In some provinces you have no fault insurance with fixed caps. But of you get killed in the workplace you can sue for millions.
    while it's true the charter of rights and freedoms wasn't enacted until 1982, the predecessor canadian bill of rights was enacted in 1960 and was equally binding on the federal government.

    the last residential school in canada didn't close until 1996, 26 years after millgard's conviction. it was hardly "an earlier time" and equally a time where the government knew better yet deliberately allowed the continuation of something illegal and exposed.

    and for the record i would appreciate your clarification that your "race baiting and whole sidebar issue" was not directed at me or my posts.
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  68. #968

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    David Millgard, wrongly convicted of murder received $10 million in compensation from the Canadian Government. His mother Joyce received $750,000. This was in 1999.
    One could say that a 'precedent' had been set with that. If that is the case why did all parties involved in the Residential School Inquiry settle for what they did.
    They had their chance and settled for less.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/milgaa...ation-1.174896
    millgard spent 23 years in a canadian prison for a wrongful criminal conviction. he didn’t receive a settlement for a human/charter rights violation.
    Like most of your posts you suck and blow at the same time.
    One would have to be a lawyer or a civil/charter/amendment etc. specialist to explain the what/why/when/who of civil/criminal etc. settlements.
    If a person(s) gets their day in court/in front of a tribunal/committee then one would hope the person(s) representing them would wrangle for the best settlement possible under the circumstances. Your chuntering away about who gets what is mute. Like you I'm not a lawyer or the type of specialist I mentioned so I guess we need a better understanding of why the representatives of the Residential School System case and the people it involved settled for the amount they did. If they thought it was adequate settlement then that is what matters in the end.
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    ^
    i suppose that's one sort-of-polite way to end a discussion. at least you didn't accuse me of race baiting.
    have a nice evening...
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  70. #970

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    Ken the race baiting was certainly not directed to you.

    But for certain individuals...


    If the shoe fits...
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  71. #971

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Thanks Gemini. Saved me from writing a similar post. Let's not let this thread continue with the race baiting and whole sidebar issues. Omar was a case of the government knowing better but was deliberately allowing the torture and confinement when it was clearly illegal and exposed early on.

    The residential school issue was also wrong but happened at an earlier time without the legal and ethical protections of the Charter. The Charter clearly defines people's rights and is not retroactive.

    Life is not fair. Some people get millions in wrongful death settlements. Others get nearly nothing. In some provinces you have no fault insurance with fixed caps. But of you get killed in the workplace you can sue for millions.
    while it's true the charter of rights and freedoms wasn't enacted until 1982, the predecessor canadian bill of rights was enacted in 1960 and was equally binding on the federal government.

    the last residential school in canada didn't close until 1996, 26 years after millgard's conviction. it was hardly "an earlier time" and equally a time where the government knew better yet deliberately allowed the continuation of something illegal and exposed.

    and for the record i would appreciate your clarification that your "race baiting and whole sidebar issue" was not directed at me or my posts.
    Your right ken the govt was running residential schools forever. The morons in this post gladly turn a blind eye pretending it doesnt matter turning a blind eye to their hypocricy.

    On a side note our current government continues to deny charter rights to thousands of Canadians who can not apply for a pardon because the pc's changed the parameters.

    Our courts in bc and Ontario have ruled our govt is breaching canadians charter of rights but our govt doesnt care. The govt is aware the changes need to be reversed but they arent acting. In bc and ontario people can apply for pardoms under the old rules due to charter challenges that were successful.

    Yet we have had trudeau on tv multiple times saying canadians charter rights will never be willingly broken ever again.... well right now they're actively breaching thousands of Canadians charter rights. So its not okay to breach rights of suspected terrorists but its okay to stand by and ignore the thousands of rights being violated from every day canadians?

    What's this going to cost the tax payers when a massive class action law suit starts?

  72. #972

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    If you think I am one of the morons turning a blind eye to the residential school issues, you are totally wrong. What was done then including the Ukrainian and Japanese internments, the treatment of our First Nations people, the forced sterilization of people etc are all wrong. The government deliberately drags this out for decades until most of the people are dead. IMHO this is to reduce their costs and like foist the cost and political grilling onto the next opposition government rather than those currently in power. Kicking the issue, the cost, the political fallout and literally the people whose lives were destroyed; down the road for political expediency. Disgusting.

    As an example the Khadr and three other people wrongly handled by the Canadian Government had to be finished by the Trudeau Government as they were started by the Jean Chretien, Paul Martin Governments and dragged out and exacerbated by the Harper Government.

    Maybe the court ordered large payouts were a signal to the government to stop such unethical behavior.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-10-2017 at 07:52 AM.
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  73. #973

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^^

    you're taking my sentiment somewhat backwards...

    yes, the indigenous victims of our residential school system were represented by lawyers and council and so was khadr.

    but one of the mainstays of our legal system is precedent and what khadr was given was disproportionate to the precedents previously set for thousands of other canadians who were victims of similar actions.

    whether i think the precedent was fair or not is not the point. the point is the government of canada set the precedent and then chose to ignore it in what they elected to give to khadr.
    Bone of contention. Arar predates Khadr & had a large settlement for similar transgressions. Also predates the 2007 reconciliation settlement.
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    ^

    a signal to the government? neither the recent 31 million nor khadr’s 10.5 million were court ordered sums.

    the courts have ruled the fundamental rights of the individuals involved were violated which in turn led to the sums being paid but the amounts were offered/agreed to by the government, not ordered by the courts.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  75. #975

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Ken the race baiting was certainly not directed to you.

    But for certain individuals...


    If the shoe fits...
    You are the only person who has brought up race in this thread, so yes, the shoe does fit you, only a racist would see racial issues in situations where none exist.

  76. #976

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Ken the race baiting was certainly not directed to you.

    But for certain individuals...


    If the shoe fits...
    You are the only person who has brought up race in this thread, so yes, the shoe does fit you, only a racist would see racial issues in situations where none exist.
    If canadians charter rights mattered so much to some of the posters here theyd be focused on actual violations our govt is making right now... but no. They dont actually care...

  77. #977

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post

    If canadians charter rights mattered so much to some of the posters here theyd be focused on actual violations our govt is making right now... but no. They dont actually care...
    I actually was following the pardon stuff you mentioned this summer & AFAIK aren't we waiting on replacement legislation now that the law's been struck down in 2 provinces?

    The current situation & limbo sucks for those affected, but there's change coming. Just not as expeditiously as some may like.
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  78. #978

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Ken the race baiting was certainly not directed to you.

    But for certain individuals...


    If the shoe fits...
    You are the only person who has brought up race in this thread, so yes, the shoe does fit you, only a racist would see racial issues in situations where none exist.
    If canadians charter rights mattered so much to some of the posters here theyd be focused on actual violations our govt is making right now... but no. They dont actually care...
    The money is a common denominator as most people can understand the relative value of money. However rights violations are very much specific to individuals or arbitrary groupings of individuals and their situation or expression of some characteristic. Moreover, money paid out by government represents money paid or to be paid by taxpayers. A public apology also has considerable financial costs associated with it, maybe even greater costs down the road, but an apology isn’t something as easily ‘relatable’ so that too quite naturally doesn’t attract as much !ficus’.

    That said, what are the actual charter violations being made by our government at present?
    Last edited by KC; 27-10-2017 at 10:23 AM.

  79. #979

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    That said, what are the actual charter violations being made by our government at present?
    He's referring to Harper's changes to pardons which have been found to be unconstitutional & unenforceable in BC & Ontario, yet are still on the books elsewhere pending revised Federal legislation.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  80. #980

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    ^right. So the govt knows what they need to do. The courts have made it clear. There is no need to draft new legislation as the courts have mandated what must happen.

    It's been a year already for some of the cases. It's not a pressing matter for the liberals even though our prime minister has been on tv multiple times saying he will not allow charter violations to happen.

    It's kind of comical seeing him say canadians charter rights wont be violated by his govt but he's actively responsible for this exact thing.

  81. #981

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^right. So the govt knows what they need to do. The courts have made it clear. There is no need to draft new legislation as the courts have mandated what must happen.
    Someone failed outta elementary school Social Studies.


    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    It's been a year already for some of the cases. It's not a pressing matter for the liberals even though our prime minister has been on tv multiple times saying he will not allow charter violations to happen.
    Yeah, crafting new legislation takes time. You don't think legislation needs to be crafted, which is wrong, which is why you are upset about the timelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    It's kind of comical seeing him say canadians charter rights wont be violated by his govt but he's actively responsible for this exact thing.
    So what'd you do that you wanna get wiped clean?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  82. #982

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    There are many quick solutions to the charter violations that the liberals choose not to do. We should all be concerned when active charter violations from our govt arent a priority.

    Our prime minister is too worried about being on camera then fixing an issue before him.

    I'm genuinely curious to see how much this will cost the tax payers.

  83. #983

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    Please, what are these quick solutions?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  84. #984

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    One has to wonder how many Canadian government officials and high brows still hold their jobs after the Khadr screw up. How many of those officials that were complicit in the torture and human rights violations still are working under the taxpayers dime. Did they ever get reprimanded or fired for wilfully turning a blind eye or for being a part of the process. Maybe the 10.5 million award should have come out of their pockets and not the taxpayers. It would make them think twice about any future violations on anyone.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  85. #985

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    You asked; "how many Canadian government officials and high brows still hold their jobs after the Khadr screw up?"

    I would suppose all of them. Except that they all were promoted and given bonuses. That's how government bureaucracy works...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  86. #986

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    ^Yes, that's exactly my thoughts also.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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