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Thread: Omar Khadr judgment/settlement

  1. #101

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    It will be interesting to see the reaction in the public per the polls. Most Canadians didn't want Khadar to return to Canada, I think they are going to have a tough time with the decision to settle this court claim / make him a multi-millionaire / reward him for his past as an Islamic terrorist. There is a reason Trudeau is being silent right now...

    But the poll commissioned by Sun News Network and done by Abacaus Data of Ottawa, shows that a healthy majority of Canadians have not been swayed by that plea.

    When asked if they support or oppose Khadr's transfer to Canada, 60% say they strongly or somewhat oppose it while just 24% say they strongly or somewhat support his return.

    A majority in all parts of the country oppose the transfer though opposition is strongest in Alberta (69%) and Ontario (65%) and weakest in Quebec were 51% oppose the move.

    And both a majority of those who voted for the Conservatives (79%) or the NDP (52%) in the last election don't want Khadr back.

    It's a different matter for those who voted Liberal. A slim plurality of Liberal supporters (42%) oppose his transfer compared to 39% of Liberals who support his transfer back to Canada.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/22...hadr-back-poll

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Thanks for changing the thread title.
    So censorship is ok with you - when you don't like what's been said?




    Freedom of Expression - Canadian Civil Liberties Association

    "...When government actors are allowed to decide which opinions can be expressed and which cannot, an open, vibrant and diverse society quickly breaks down. Similarly, when our court system is used to silence those with unpopular views or those who oppose powerful actors, we all lose the opportunity to hear all sides of an issue and come to our own conclusions. Freedom of expression is the right to speak, but also the right to hear. Informed political debate requires that this right be strongly protected, and it is only through free expression ..."

    "It isn’t always easy to speak up for free expression. It is often those with unpopular or radical views that are silenced or have their freedom of expression threatened. However, CCLA believes that freedom of expression is so core to our democracy that we have even stood up to defend the rights of individuals whose opinions we abhor. We have argued for the repeal of hate speech and obscenity laws which are vague and may chill free expression. We have pushed for modifications to the law of defamation to ensure that we have a strong and free press in Canada, and continue to work to make sure that our civil courts are not used by those with power and wealth to silence the views of those with less resources.. Our work on the right to protest is also closely linked to the value we place on freedom of expression. ..."


    "CCLA recognizes that strong protections for freedom of expression come with responsibilities. When free speech is used to denigrate individuals and groups, we advocate for counter-speech and denunciation, rather than censorship."

    https://ccla.org/focus-areas/fundame...-expression-2/
    Bolding was mine
    Last edited by KC; 05-07-2017 at 05:24 PM.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Im trying to find a quote where Trudeau provides the instruction per the thread title. Does the PM have that authority? Can someone provide that please.


    More here:

    Here’s why Omar Khadr is getting $10M from the Canadian government | Globalnews.ca

    http://globalnews.ca/news/3573619/om...-compensation/
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Interesting comment on the radio. 'It was the Conservatives that brought him back to Canada'. CBC radio this morning I don't know who was talking.

    Now to clarify- further to that radio interview: it was also said that, to paraphrase as best as I can: 'the Conservatives, Jason Kenny's Conservatives were forced to bring him back to Canada by the courts.'

    I'd still like some clarification on where Trudeau is deemed to be the deciding factor in the payout per this thread's title, and not the courts.


    Yeah, you're right. Just more totally nonsensical comments by KC. WTF is he going on about? Trudeau what???? Thread title?

    Oh what is that? One just has to find post #84 for an explanation of why the censorship board was called in to obliterate a poster's thoughts, spin, political correctness (for Moa that is), or whatever that title nonsense was about.
    Last edited by KC; 05-07-2017 at 04:34 PM.

  4. #104

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    Oh no, child abuse - a 16 year old who stabbed to death his girlfriend has been sentenced to life in prison, the poor child. Unlucky for him he didn't kill her in Afghanistan, he could expect a 10m payout one day then...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...cing-1.4188283

    Prockner, who was 16 when he killed Leflar, would normally be handed a youth sentence, but exceptions are sometimes made in the case of a violent crime, such as murder. This stands if the killer is found morally culpable and a youth sentence is determined insufficient to hold the youth accountable.

  5. #105

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    More to this, if this Wikipedia entry is to be believed this prosecutor (see below) had some personal 'limitations' that should cause people to question the accepted course of events:

    "Speer, ...suffered a head wound from a grenade and succumbed to his injuries approximately two weeks later.[4][5]...

    On February 4, 2008, American officials accidentally released an unredacted version of sworn testimony which — according to Khadr's lawyers — showed that Khadr was not responsible for Speer's death.[13] In January 2006 Colonel Morris Davis, Khadr's prosecutor, in statements to the press, said that Khadr owed his life to American medics who stepped over the dead body of their colleague to treat Khadr's wounds. Speer died from his wounds on August 6, 2002, at the age of 28.[14][15] However, the accidentally-released sworn testimony revealed that medics dressed Speer's wounds before they dressed Khadr's.[16]"

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Speer

    As an aside, in the above, note the use of " - " (en or em dash?) and not simple commas when it says:
    " — according to Khadr's lawyers — ". Someone wants that point to stand out.

    Maybe punctuation should be added to the list of manipulative techniques:

    Propaganda techniques
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_techniques
    Last edited by KC; 05-07-2017 at 05:04 PM.

  6. #106

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    Leave the opinions for the comments. Editorialized headlines will drive away readers.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Leave the opinions for the comments. Editorialized headlines will drive away readers.
    Then let Admin start all threads via a submission for approval. Headlines are almost always 'editorialized', it's a tradition in the media, and in book titles, and movie titles, etc. Almost everywhere except in maybe some scientific, technical papers and engineering papers and journals - which attract few readers.


    Eg Edmonton Journal site today:

    " Military families condemn $10M settlement to Omar Khadr. "

    " 'There ought never be an offer to 'settle': Wall against Khadr deal. "
    Last edited by KC; 05-07-2017 at 06:07 PM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    So what now ? The Canadian Govt is on the hook for paying compensation for individuals held against their will and/or illegally in another country. Once you enter another country, you are subject to their rules/ whims/ laws.
    For at least the third or fourth time, the Canadian intelligence services and therefore government was complicit in his treatment. Hence the liability.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    What did he, oh right! He killed someone!!
    Since when is "an eye for an eye" how our country's legal system operates? Again, two wrongs don't make a right. We are supposed to be better than "them". Not just as bad.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 05-07-2017 at 07:35 PM.

  9. #109
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    Came across a good, balanced article by Andrew MacDougall, who served for a time as Harper's communications director: http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/omar-...isan-politics/

    I pushed Khadr around the chessboard too, in my time in Stephen Harper’s PMO, although by then the game was a stalemate. Jean Chrétien’s first move was to judge that sticking up for Khadr wouldn’t wash in George W. Bush’s post-9/11 America. Paul Martin did little to challenge that assumption. And with the die already cast, Harper didn’t want to challenge it, and only changed course with the arrival of the Democrat Barack Obama and his desire to close Guantanamo. Even then, it took years of foot-dragging and a string of losses in court for us to accept the reality and repatriate Khadr. After all, bringing him home willingly would have caused fury with the Conservative base; for them, we couldn’t be tough enough on him. We, like other political parties, were guilty of turning Omar Khadr into a talking point, instead of treating him like a (grossly flawed) human being.

    As a spokesman (with no input to the decision-making), the government’s position was hard for me to defend. It’s not because I’m soft on terrorism; I supported George W. Bush and the wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I think the death of Christopher Speer deserves sanction, and I think it’s tosh that Omar Khadr was some wide-eyed innocent. I also think Khadr’s family of convenient Canadians are an abusive, wretched stain on our noble citizenship.

    But that doesn’t mean I have to feel comfortable about Khadr’s treatment at Guantanamo Bay, or the indifference of successive Canadian governments to his fate. No matter your opinion of him, Khadr was a citizen trapped in a machine none of us would equate with Canadian justice. It’s okay to think he was a terrorist and that he’s been treated shamefully. It’s okay to think that Khadr has served his time, but that he doesn’t deserve a single cent of taxpayer money for his troubles. Governments should have fought for a fair process, if not defend the merits of the man caught in it.

    Had Khadr been brought back to Canada after his capture in Afghanistan and locked up on Canadian soil, I would have been quite happy. Unfortunately, that wasn’t an option. Just as it isn’t an option to resuscitate Christopher Speer and return him to his widow and family.


    And while it would be nice to imagine an ending where Omar Khadr takes the settlement money and confounds his critics by giving it to Christopher Speer’s widow, this isn’t Hollywood. The news of the settlement—and the polarized reaction to it—just confirms there is no happy ending to be had. For anyone.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Came across a good, balanced article by Andrew MacDougall, who served for a time as Harper's communications director: http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/omar-...isan-politics/

    I pushed Khadr around the chessboard too, in my time in Stephen Harper’s PMO, although by then the game was a stalemate. Jean Chrétien’s first move was to judge that sticking up for Khadr wouldn’t wash in George W. Bush’s post-9/11 America. Paul Martin did little to challenge that assumption. And with the die already cast, Harper didn’t want to challenge it, and only changed course with the arrival of the Democrat Barack Obama and his desire to close Guantanamo. Even then, it took years of foot-dragging and a string of losses in court for us to accept the reality and repatriate Khadr. After all, bringing him home willingly would have caused fury with the Conservative base; for them, we couldn’t be tough enough on him. We, like other political parties, were guilty of turning Omar Khadr into a talking point, instead of treating him like a (grossly flawed) human being.

    As a spokesman (with no input to the decision-making), the government’s position was hard for me to defend. It’s not because I’m soft on terrorism; I supported George W. Bush and the wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I think the death of Christopher Speer deserves sanction, and I think it’s tosh that Omar Khadr was some wide-eyed innocent. I also think Khadr’s family of convenient Canadians are an abusive, wretched stain on our noble citizenship.

    But that doesn’t mean I have to feel comfortable about Khadr’s treatment at Guantanamo Bay, or the indifference of successive Canadian governments to his fate. No matter your opinion of him, Khadr was a citizen trapped in a machine none of us would equate with Canadian justice. It’s okay to think he was a terrorist and that he’s been treated shamefully. It’s okay to think that Khadr has served his time, but that he doesn’t deserve a single cent of taxpayer money for his troubles. Governments should have fought for a fair process, if not defend the merits of the man caught in it.

    Had Khadr been brought back to Canada after his capture in Afghanistan and locked up on Canadian soil, I would have been quite happy. Unfortunately, that wasn’t an option. Just as it isn’t an option to resuscitate Christopher Speer and return him to his widow and family.


    And while it would be nice to imagine an ending where Omar Khadr takes the settlement money and confounds his critics by giving it to Christopher Speer’s widow, this isn’t Hollywood. The news of the settlement—and the polarized reaction to it—just confirms there is no happy ending to be had. For anyone.
    Hey let's sue the Liberal and Conservative Parties for reparations. The writing was on the wall from other settlements and yet their ideological or other flaws led them to kicking the can down the road and further increasing the eventual liability / settlement that taxpayers would be forced to hand over.

  11. #111
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    The political parties don't have any direct liability in this matter. The governments they formed do. What's the point of suing ourselves?

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    The political parties don't have any direct liability in this matter. The governments they formed do. What's the point of suing ourselves?
    Just being facetious. People are blaming the liberals over what seems to be a legal/constitutional (court) issue, as if it were the Liberals simply deciding to make a payout. Guys like Brad Wall say they should fight it, so how would we all feel if our legal fees cost Canadians millions more and then the lawyers won their $20 million case?

    To me it looks like our the government legal team is trying to cut its losses - and the politicians have little say in the matter - unless they can legislate it away - and if they could, where were the Conservatives all the while the legal liability was clearly climbing ever higher?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    So what now ? The Canadian Govt is on the hook for paying compensation for individuals held against their will and/or illegally in another country. Once you enter another country, you are subject to their rules/ whims/ laws.
    For at least the third or fourth time, the Canadian intelligence services and therefore government was complicit in his treatment. Hence the liability.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    What did he, oh right! He killed someone!!
    Since when is "an eye for an eye" how our country's legal system operates? Again, two wrongs don't make a right. We are supposed to be better than "them". Not just as bad.
    What on earth are you yammering about, did I say kill him? No! I certainly didn't say kill him with kindness either!
    Sheesh, read already!
    Last edited by H.L.; 06-07-2017 at 07:03 AM.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Came across a good, balanced article by Andrew MacDougall, who served for a time as Harper's communications director: http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/omar-...isan-politics/

    I pushed Khadr around the chessboard too, in my time in Stephen Harper’s PMO, although by then the game was a stalemate. Jean Chrétien’s first move was to judge that sticking up for Khadr wouldn’t wash in George W. Bush’s post-9/11 America. Paul Martin did little to challenge that assumption. And with the die already cast, Harper didn’t want to challenge it, and only changed course with the arrival of the Democrat Barack Obama and his desire to close Guantanamo. Even then, it took years of foot-dragging and a string of losses in court for us to accept the reality and repatriate Khadr. After all, bringing him home willingly would have caused fury with the Conservative base; for them, we couldn’t be tough enough on him. We, like other political parties, were guilty of turning Omar Khadr into a talking point, instead of treating him like a (grossly flawed) human being.

    As a spokesman (with no input to the decision-making), the government’s position was hard for me to defend. It’s not because I’m soft on terrorism; I supported George W. Bush and the wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq. I think the death of Christopher Speer deserves sanction, and I think it’s tosh that Omar Khadr was some wide-eyed innocent. I also think Khadr’s family of convenient Canadians are an abusive, wretched stain on our noble citizenship.

    But that doesn’t mean I have to feel comfortable about Khadr’s treatment at Guantanamo Bay, or the indifference of successive Canadian governments to his fate. No matter your opinion of him, Khadr was a citizen trapped in a machine none of us would equate with Canadian justice. It’s okay to think he was a terrorist and that he’s been treated shamefully. It’s okay to think that Khadr has served his time, but that he doesn’t deserve a single cent of taxpayer money for his troubles. Governments should have fought for a fair process, if not defend the merits of the man caught in it.

    Had Khadr been brought back to Canada after his capture in Afghanistan and locked up on Canadian soil, I would have been quite happy. Unfortunately, that wasn’t an option. Just as it isn’t an option to resuscitate Christopher Speer and return him to his widow and family.


    And while it would be nice to imagine an ending where Omar Khadr takes the settlement money and confounds his critics by giving it to Christopher Speer’s widow, this isn’t Hollywood. The news of the settlement—and the polarized reaction to it—just confirms there is no happy ending to be had. For anyone.
    Thanks for this Marcel. Its a classic illustration of decisions being made politically, and in view of what is politically viable, than making the best, most prudent, and even ethical decisions. If people wonder why such atrocity as residential schools and child scoops happened in this country it occurs the same way. Its what happens when you let the rabble lead the cart.

    Second, what nature of leadership is evident when decision trees are based sheerly on placating public opinion? Even when that opinion is reactionary, unfounded, and without legal basis?


    When federal decision making is so broken by being careful what to or not to do based on populist grounds then the whole system doesn't work, and much more is wrong than the decisions on Khadr.
    Last edited by Replacement; 06-07-2017 at 06:24 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Thanks for changing the thread title.
    So censorship is ok with you - when you don't like what's been said?
    I'm one of those that asked for the thread title to be changed away from something needlessly inflammatory, so yep.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    What on earth are you yammering about, did I say kill him? No! I certainly didn't say kill him with kindness either!
    Sheesh, read already!


    You tried to use his (very, very iffy) conviction of murder to justify the violation of his human rights. Again, that is not how our legal or justice systems work, nor should they.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Leave the opinions for the comments. Editorialized headlines will drive away readers.
    It'll only drive away critical thinkers. Conservatives eat up editorials like they're actual news. I mean, look at some posters' propensity to post up Lorne Gunter op-eds as actual news stories.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Leave the opinions for the comments. Editorialized headlines will drive away readers.
    It'll only drive away critical thinkers. People of all stripes eat up editorials like they're actual news. I mean, look at some posters' propensity to post up *insert any local, provincial/national paper/TV/internet site here* op-eds as actual news stories.
    There...fixed it for ya...
    I don't have to look far on even this board to see many examples of op-eds on all topics from health care, to climate science, to poverty, to whatever to get people of all stripes taking so and so's op-ed column as factual representations...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  19. #119

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    Your fix would work better if that lazy good for nothing Admin would enable strikethrough... Ahem.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Leave the opinions for the comments. Editorialized headlines will drive away readers.
    It'll only drive away critical thinkers. People of all stripes eat up editorials like they're actual news. I mean, look at some posters' propensity to post up *insert any local, provincial/national paper/TV/internet site here* op-eds as actual news stories.
    There...fixed it for ya...
    I don't have to look far on even this board to see many examples of op-eds on all topics from health care, to climate science, to poverty, to whatever to get people of all stripes taking so and so's op-ed column as factual representations...
    Yeah - its basically why I wrote it originally the way I did - I just wanted to get a discussion going as it had been almost a day with none. I think it worked (until thin skinned left wingers got so upset they set up a "counter" thread), but no objections to the edit.

  21. #121

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    No, you wrote it the way you did because that's how you see the world. I mean, look at your posts in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    I don't think so, we are rewarding him because he was lucky enough to throw at a US soldier, its obscene.
    Don't try and paint your regressive, illiberal & deplorable commentary & world view as just being done to bait discussion as you've given us over 27,000 pieces of evidence to show how contemptible & callow you are.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Your fix would work better if that lazy good for nothing Admin would enable strikethrough... Ahem.

    He's drunk...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    What on earth are you yammering about, did I say kill him? No! I certainly didn't say kill him with kindness either!
    Sheesh, read already!




    You tried to use his (very, very iffy) conviction of murder to justify the violation of his human rights. Again, that is not how our legal or justice systems work, nor should they.
    Well say that then, not this eye for an eye BS. Quite frankly, I'm not angry at the money, mainly because his greedy lawyer will take a lot of it, and I really don't care one way or another what he does with his life now. Look at Arar, took the money, and never heard of again.

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    What on earth are you yammering about, did I say kill him? No! I certainly didn't say kill him with kindness either!Sheesh, read already!
    You tried to use his (very, very iffy) conviction of murder to justify the violation of his human rights. Again, that is not how our legal or justice systems work, nor should they.
    Well say that then, not this eye for an eye BS. Quite frankly, I'm not angry at the money, mainly because his greedy lawyer will take a lot of it, and I really don't care one way or another what he does with his life now. Look at Arar, took the money, and never heard of again.
    Wrong once again. Maher Arar was in the news last year for founding a tech startup called CauseSquare which:

    "CauseSquare allows users to choose from a menu of causes including education, human rights, justice and independent media. It then narrows the choices to individual charities and non-profits, helping users find the best fit for them."

    He's frequently a guest speaker for human rights organization (for free) and has visited Edmonton for talks.
    Last edited by faraz; 06-07-2017 at 10:08 AM. Reason: formatting

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L.
    What on earth are you yammering about, did I say kill him? No! I certainly didn't say kill him with kindness either!Sheesh, read already!
    You tried to use his (very, very iffy) conviction of murder to justify the violation of his human rights. Again, that is not how our legal or justice systems work, nor should they.
    Well say that then, not this eye for an eye BS. Quite frankly, I'm not angry at the money, mainly because his greedy lawyer will take a lot of it, and I really don't care one way or another what he does with his life now. Look at Arar, took the money, and never heard of again.
    Wrong once again. Maher Arar was in the news last year for founding a tech startup called CauseSquare which:

    "CauseSquare allows users to choose from a menu of causes including education, human rights, justice and independent media. It then narrows the choices to individual charities and non-profits, helping users find the best fit for them."

    He's frequently a guest speaker for human rights organization (for free) and has visited Edmonton for talks.
    Well I hadn't heard of him, and he does thing for free? I should bloody well think so!

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Oh no, child abuse - a 16 year old who stabbed to death his girlfriend has been sentenced to life in prison, the poor child. Unlucky for him he didn't kill her in Afghanistan, he could expect a 10m payout one day then...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...cing-1.4188283

    Prockner, who was 16 when he killed Leflar, would normally be handed a youth sentence, but exceptions are sometimes made in the case of a violent crime, such as murder. This stands if the killer is found morally culpable and a youth sentence is determined insufficient to hold the youth accountable.
    I don't think you will truly get what having your constitutional rights taken from you until it happens to you. What if you were went to Mexico on holiday and over night someone in the next room got murdered. They arrested you and charged you with the murder and flung you in some real hell hole of a jail. You contact the Canadian Embassy and they say maybe we will sent someone to see you. You languish there for months at a time while they interrogate mercilessly every day, even wake you up every 3-4 hours to do so. To make it worse you are in cells with guys much bigger and stronger than you. Anyway, months turn into years and it seems the Canadian Embassy have more or less written you off and you are wondering why your rights have been violated. Then after years of incarceration you get to leave and you take the matter to court because you were not represented buy your country. You win your case and they offer you a written apology and a framed citation that you are now a free man. Would you be saying that you cannot put a price on freedom?.

    Oh, by the way, the example you are using about the 16 year old stabbing his girlfriend. This 16 year old went through due process and had his day in court within the time frame of a fairly quick trial. He was found guilty by a jury and sentenced accordingly. He got what is considered a fair trail which would be given to anyone else in his situation.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Oh no, child abuse - a 16 year old who stabbed to death his girlfriend has been sentenced to life in prison, the poor child. Unlucky for him he didn't kill her in Afghanistan, he could expect a 10m payout one day then...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...cing-1.4188283

    Prockner, who was 16 when he killed Leflar, would normally be handed a youth sentence, but exceptions are sometimes made in the case of a violent crime, such as murder. This stands if the killer is found morally culpable and a youth sentence is determined insufficient to hold the youth accountable.
    I don't think you will truly get what having your constitutional rights taken from you until it happens to you. What if you were went to Mexico on holiday and over night someone in the next room got murdered. They arrested you and charged you with the murder and flung you in some real hell hole of a jail. You contact the Canadian Embassy and they say maybe we will sent someone to see you. You languish there for months at a time while they interrogate mercilessly every day, even wake you up every 3-4 hours to do so. To make it worse you are in cells with guys much bigger and stronger than you. Anyway, months turn into years and it seems the Canadian Embassy have more or less written you off and you are wondering why your rights have been violated. Then after years of incarceration you get to leave and you take the matter to court because you were not represented buy your country. You win your case and they offer you a written apology and a framed citation that you are now a free man. Would you be saying that you cannot put a price on freedom?.

    Oh, by the way, the example you are using about the 16 year old stabbing his girlfriend. This 16 year old went through due process and had his day in court within the time frame of a fairly quick trial. He was found guilty by a jury and sentenced accordingly. He got what is considered a fair trail which would be given to anyone else in his situation.
    I think it's the $10 million amount that people are most "offended" with. Heard a guy on the radio yesterday mentioning that his mother received about $20 thousand in settlement on her Residential School experience. To me the idea of being taken away from one's parent(s) at a young age and subjected to whatever they were each individually subjected to, would in some cases warrant substantial compensation - but maybe constitutionally they weren't as protected in those times.

    It may be interesting in terms of setting financial levels for the future but the excuse by the powers that be, will always be that everything has to be viewed on a case by case basis.

  28. #128

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    Omar was suing for $20M & is settling for $10M in a case he'd likely win. The government not continuing to waste millions in a futile fight that's an international embarrassment & a dark mark on our human rights record while managing to settle for half the requested amount is something to be lauded, not derided.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  29. #129

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    ^^^not only that, but he has the possibility of parole in 10 years, despite the murder being clearly his idea.

    Omar Khadr was in prison that long before it even went to trial for throwing a grenade in a firefight that was not his idea, in which he could reasonably have been fearing for his life.

    Maybe the settlement is too high, but a significant settlement is justified. I give a lot of credit to his supporters and human rights campaigners who have backed him and aided him - no thanks to the government, of course - that his life wasn't more thoroughly ruined.
    There can only be one.

  30. #130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Oh no, child abuse - a 16 year old who stabbed to death his girlfriend has been sentenced to life in prison, the poor child. Unlucky for him he didn't kill her in Afghanistan, he could expect a 10m payout one day then...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...cing-1.4188283

    Prockner, who was 16 when he killed Leflar, would normally be handed a youth sentence, but exceptions are sometimes made in the case of a violent crime, such as murder. This stands if the killer is found morally culpable and a youth sentence is determined insufficient to hold the youth accountable.
    I don't think you will truly get what having your constitutional rights taken from you until it happens to you. What if you were went to Mexico on holiday and over night someone in the next room got murdered. They arrested you and charged you with the murder and flung you in some real hell hole of a jail. You contact the Canadian Embassy and they say maybe we will sent someone to see you. You languish there for months at a time while they interrogate mercilessly every day, even wake you up every 3-4 hours to do so. To make it worse you are in cells with guys much bigger and stronger than you. Anyway, months turn into years and it seems the Canadian Embassy have more or less written you off and you are wondering why your rights have been violated. Then after years of incarceration you get to leave and you take the matter to court because you were not represented buy your country. You win your case and they offer you a written apology and a framed citation that you are now a free man. Would you be saying that you cannot put a price on freedom?.

    Oh, by the way, the example you are using about the 16 year old stabbing his girlfriend. This 16 year old went through due process and had his day in court within the time frame of a fairly quick trial. He was found guilty by a jury and sentenced accordingly. He got what is considered a fair trail which would be given to anyone else in his situation.
    I think it's the $10 million amount that people are most "offended" with. Heard a guy on the radio yesterday mentioning that his mother received about $20 thousand in settlement on her Residential School experience. To me the idea of being taken away from one's parent(s) at a young age and subjected to whatever they were each individually subjected to, would in some cases warrant substantial compensation - but maybe constitutionally they weren't as protected in those times.

    It may be interesting in terms of setting financial levels for the future but the excuse by the powers that be, will always be that everything has to be viewed on a case by case basis.
    This is a great example. Canadas own ethnic cleansing yet payouts were far less then omar. The govt fought this for 20-30 years in court and paid out pennies to survivors who were taken from their homes, raped and murdered.

    The rights were violated as bad or worst as first nations were repeatedly sexually abused. We are talking a massive scale of human rights violations that went on till the 90s. I guess omar the terrorist deserves more then the tens of thousands taking from their homes to be abused and assimilated.

    Lets keep on defending the terrorist. Please keep defending a murderer.

    Well done.

  31. #131

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    Well at least you admit that in both examples, the Canadian government were complicit in both group and individual human rights violations.

    On that we agree.
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  32. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Lets keep on defending the Canadian citizen who was denied his Charter rights by the government itself. Please keep defending the Charter of Rights & Freedoms, one of the most important documents this country has ever created.
    FTFY, since you're being as deliberately disingenuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post

    Well done.
    Thanks!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Well at least you admit that in both examples, the Canadian government were complicit in both group and individual human rights violations.

    On that we agree.
    Clearly your incapable of reading my many posts. Im perfectly fine with defending someones rights but the second you excuse his actions and murders thats not okay. Many here are crossing this line and cant seperate the 2 issues.

    Why would khadr be given ten million when there are first nations who had family members murdered while enduring years and years of sexual abuse.

    It seems super lopsided when compared to actual atrocities committed by our govts in canada.

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Oh no, child abuse - a 16 year old who stabbed to death his girlfriend has been sentenced to life in prison, the poor child. Unlucky for him he didn't kill her in Afghanistan, he could expect a 10m payout one day then...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...cing-1.4188283

    Prockner, who was 16 when he killed Leflar, would normally be handed a youth sentence, but exceptions are sometimes made in the case of a violent crime, such as murder. This stands if the killer is found morally culpable and a youth sentence is determined insufficient to hold the youth accountable.
    I don't think you will truly get what having your constitutional rights taken from you until it happens to you. What if you were went to Mexico on holiday and over night someone in the next room got murdered. They arrested you and charged you with the murder and flung you in some real hell hole of a jail. You contact the Canadian Embassy and they say maybe we will sent someone to see you. You languish there for months at a time while they interrogate mercilessly every day, even wake you up every 3-4 hours to do so. To make it worse you are in cells with guys much bigger and stronger than you. Anyway, months turn into years and it seems the Canadian Embassy have more or less written you off and you are wondering why your rights have been violated. Then after years of incarceration you get to leave and you take the matter to court because you were not represented buy your country. You win your case and they offer you a written apology and a framed citation that you are now a free man. Would you be saying that you cannot put a price on freedom?.

    Oh, by the way, the example you are using about the 16 year old stabbing his girlfriend. This 16 year old went through due process and had his day in court within the time frame of a fairly quick trial. He was found guilty by a jury and sentenced accordingly. He got what is considered a fair trail which would be given to anyone else in his situation.
    I think it's the $10 million amount that people are most "offended" with. Heard a guy on the radio yesterday mentioning that his mother received about $20 thousand in settlement on her Residential School experience. To me the idea of being taken away from one's parent(s) at a young age and subjected to whatever they were each individually subjected to, would in some cases warrant substantial compensation - but maybe constitutionally they weren't as protected in those times.

    It may be interesting in terms of setting financial levels for the future but the excuse by the powers that be, will always be that everything has to be viewed on a case by case basis.
    This is a great example. Canadas own ethnic cleansing yet payouts were far less then omar. The govt fought this for 20-30 years in court and paid out pennies to survivors who were taken from their homes, raped and murdered.

    The rights were violated as bad or worst as first nations were repeatedly sexually abused. We are talking a massive scale of human rights violations that went on till the 90s. I guess omar the terrorist deserves more then the tens of thousands taking from their homes to be abused and assimilated.

    Lets keep on defending the terrorist. Please keep defending a murderer.

    Well done.
    While the word 'defending' Kadhr is being bounced around some people are reading it in the wrong content. People are 'defending' his right to due process that he did not receive from his own government. He was born in Canada, he was a Canadian citizen an yet the government did nothing to help him when he was taken to Guantanimo to spend years in gaol with no representation from the Government. The government of the day just played political football with him. He stayed in gaol with out a trial or anyone from the Canadian Embassy doing anything constructive for him. People like Homolka/Bernardo/Olson and other criminals all got trials in quick due course, they did not sit in gaol for years awaiting trial and sentence. Like it or not people accused of crimes have a right to a trial, innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of our justice system. A right to quick trial so that they can be sentenced and their victims and victims families can move on. This is why he got awarded $10 million, the government did nothing for him, he sat in gaol for years without his day in court. The government passed the law on Human Rights and then they totally disregarded them in his case.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  35. #135
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    Gems.

    It's' ' jail '.

    Either do the entire post in ebonics.

    Or not at all.

    Kinda confuses Top_Dawg when it's just one word.

  36. #136

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    ^Duly noted. Took 3 years high school in another country and sometimes in plays havoc with the whole 'gaol' 'jail' thing.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Well at least you admit that in both examples, the Canadian government were complicit in both group and individual human rights violations.

    On that we agree.
    Clearly your incapable of reading my many posts. Im perfectly fine with defending someones rights but the second you excuse his actions and murders thats not okay. Many here are crossing this line and cant seperate the 2 issues.

    Why would khadr be given ten million when there are first nations who had family members murdered while enduring years and years of sexual abuse.

    It seems super lopsided when compared to actual atrocities committed by our govts in canada.
    The thing is Kahdr made the confession under extreme duress as he had no one representing him. He was treat as an adult when he was still a minor etc. It goes full circle, no one there defending his human rights therefore he was treated badly and questioned constantly. The government knows they were not there to look out for him. If they had of been he would not have been in jail for so long without a trial. Let's say he did have a trial in due time and found guilty. He could have spend his time in a Canadian jail. If that was the case the government would not have found itself in the position of awarding him $10 million.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  38. #138

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    ^I love your sympathy to a murdering terrorist. You keep providing excuses for khadr in all of your posts. Its very cute.

    Rights violated? Sure. Were they violated worst then first nations over an entire century? No.. but lets pay him way more then them anyways.

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^I love your sympathy to a murdering terrorist. You keep providing excuses for khadr in all of your posts. Its very cute.

    Rights violated? Sure. Were they violated worst then first nations over an entire century? No.. but lets pay him way more then them anyways.
    If the residential school payout was low (which it was), blame the government and ask them to do more. But as I suspect, people would be up in arms about that too if each child in residential school was given $1m instead of $20k. Most people using the residential school example to win the argument in this forum would otherwise have little sympathy for any cause related to First Nations.

  40. #140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ^I love your sympathy to a murdering terrorist. You keep providing excuses for khadr in all of your posts. Its very cute.

    Rights violated? Sure. Were they violated worst then first nations over an entire century? No.. but lets pay him way more then them anyways.
    First Nations People did not have their human rights violated when they went to court for the Residential School Settlement. They had lawyers and government officials with them every step of the way.


    I'm beginning to think you do not know what the Human Rights Act of Canada actually is. Kadhr had his human rights violated by the Canadian Government, it was proven in court. The very government that wrote the act abused the act in his case. Maybe remember that if you ever go to another country and get arrested and you phone the Canadian Embassy for help.
    Nobody on the thread is glorifying what Kadhr did but some understand what his life was like and what led up to it. If you are so concerned about what the First Nations People got as a settlement and what Kadhr got for a settlement I suggest you write to your MP or the PM as well as posting here. I'm not fully versed myself of the Canadian Human Rights Act but I know enough the government should not abuse it for political or any other gain.
    Last edited by Gemini; 06-07-2017 at 05:16 PM.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  41. #141

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    The Canadian government made a child the example of a warped intent to prove to the Bush Administration that it was tough on terrorists and used Kadhr as the 'whipping boy'. They used him for political purposes and deliberately withheld his rights and literally disowned him. They then assisted a foreign government to allow him to be tortured and imprisoned in the harshest conditions that were a violation on many Canadian and international laws and conventions. All to appease the hawks who started illegal wars and practiced many acts that are considered war crimes.

    Since the Government of Canada made good on their efforts to make an example and scapegoat , the Courts wisely punished the Government and made the payout significant based upon the harm done and to prevent such acts to be repeated, as an example of what NOT to do to a Canadian citizen.

    If you want to make a comparison to another double murderer, let's look at a full adult like Karla Homolka who got a very light sentence in a hotel gaol with parties and wine as her "torture"
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 06-07-2017 at 06:16 PM.
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  42. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    He murdered an unarmed medic, and was videoed planting IED's for the cause (IED's being a major killer of Canadian troops). He is a traitor, its as simple as that.


    And now....

    He walketh among us.

    Beware next time you get into a cab.

    Could be ol' Khadr ready to wage jihad.
    Well, he's been attending classes for a while now at King's College, the Christian Reformed liberal-arts school on 50th street, just east of Ottewell. Can't say I've heard anything about that place becoming a hotbed of violent jihad.



    Moa lurking around Kings College.

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=funny...w=1280&bih=523
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  43. #143
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    ^ Well, as a former long-time resident of Ottewell, I can report that that landscape is WAY too green and lush to be the industrial dead-zone that is 91st and 50th. Trying to put some sort of black-ops over on us, Gem?

    (Seriously, though. Good one.)

  44. #144

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    The 'fake' news is reporting that Khadr already has the cash.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/07...it_a_23020282/
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  45. #145

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    Conservatives must move on from demonizing Omar Khadr
    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opi...ticle35556321/


    It was under a Liberal government that Omar Khadr's constitutional rights were summarily violated, but it was under a Conservative one that he was transformed into the one-man wedge issue that would ultimately sour Canadians on Stephen Harper's sinister way of doing politics.

    Have the Conservatives learned nothing? Relics of the Harper era persist in portraying Mr. Khadr as a "convicted terrorist" who "confessed" to egregious crimes that took the life of one U.S. solider in Afghanistan and permanently maimed another. They seek to stir up outrage at the Trudeau government's decision to settle Mr. Khadr's $20-million lawsuit against Ottawa for half that amount on the grounds that any wrongs committed against him have since been righted by Canadian courts.


    <snip>


    Stop it. Anyone with a whit of common sense, much less compassion, knows that the Canadian-born Mr. Khadr, captured at 15 in a raid on an al-Qaeda compound in Afghanistan, should never have been labelled as such. And that it was only in the fog of war that followed the 2001 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil that such labelling was ever allowed to happen in the first place.


    Then Liberal foreign affairs minister Bill Graham's first instinct was to resist such a rush to judgment. On Mr. Khadr's capture, his department issued a statement deeming it "an unfortunate reality that juveniles are too often the victims in military actions and that many groups and countries actively recruit and use them in armed conflicts and in terrorist activities … Canada is working hard to eliminate these practices, but child soldiers still exist, in Afghanistan" and elsewhere.


    News of Mr. Khadr's capture, however, emerged within a few days of the first anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. The public mood was not one of forgiveness, but one of resolve in seeking justice for 9/11 victims, and for the Canadian and American soldiers who had died in the subsequent war in Afghanistan. Mr. Khadr also happened to have been the son of a real Canada-hating al-Qaeda combatant, who had taken him as a child to Afghanistan. Then prime minister Jean Chrétien's government soon caved in to public opinion and U.S. pressure, enabling Mr. Khadr's interrogation at Guantanamo Bay in utter defiance of his constitutional rights.


    Still, it was Mr. Harper, leader of the Canadian Alliance at the time of Mr. Khadr's capture, who picked up this soiled ball and ran with it. From 2002 and throughout his almost 10-year stint as prime minister, he milked the Khadr case for all its political worth, seeking to make an example of this youngster of notorious lineage and provide proof of his own tough-on-terrorism credentials.


    The problem was, Mr. Khadr kept ruining the Conservative narrative by proving, time and again, that he was "better than the person [Mr. Harper] thinks I am." In 2008, Mr. Harper's own government's officials deemed Mr. Khadr "salvageable, non-radicalized and a good kid." Yet, even as evidence mounted that the treatment of prisoners at Gitmo and other tough-on-terror tactics actually did far more to encourage the radicalization of young Muslims than deter it, Mr. Harper and his ministers never let up in their demonization of Mr. Khadr. <snip>


    If the panicky aftermath of 9/11 helps explain the context for the trampling of Mr. Khadr's rights, there is no explanation for the Harper government's relentless exploitation of the Khadr case for political gain. By 2015, the diminishing returns of that political strategy were evident. Canadians had grown weary of Mr. Harper's Manichean world view.
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  46. #146
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    http://www.montrealgazette.com/opini...675/story.html


    If nothing else, at the very least, it’s a brilliant victory for the Taliban, al-Qaida, ISIL and all the other extremists: A young jihadist is now a hero in Canada for killing an infidel – and look, he got a big payday and an apology to boot.

    Well said!

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/opini...675/story.html


    If nothing else, at the very least, it’s a brilliant victory for the Taliban, al-Qaida, ISIL and all the other extremists: A young jihadist is now a hero in Canada for killing an infidel – and look, he got a big payday and an apology to boot.

    Well said!
    Oh the irony of what the writer followed that up with:

    What’s next: Do we apologize to the Germans for winning what another friend calls “those two memorable misunderstandings?”

    The US Marshall Plan gave 13 Billion to European Countries after WWII, including 11% of that to West Germany.

  48. #148

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    *clicks link*
    *sees Christie Blatchford byline*
    *closes tab*
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/opini...675/story.html


    If nothing else, at the very least, it’s a brilliant victory for the Taliban, al-Qaida, ISIL and all the other extremists: A young jihadist is now a hero in Canada for killing an infidel – and look, he got a big payday and an apology to boot.

    Well said!
    Oh the irony of what the writer followed that up with:

    What’s next: Do we apologize to the Germans for winning what another friend calls “those two memorable misunderstandings?”

    The US Marshall Plan gave 13 Billion to European Countries after WWII, including 11% of that to West Germany.
    And we charged Britain interest on monies lent didn't we?

  50. #150

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    Contrary to stupid remarks like this below.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Is 10m enough for enduring state sponsored torture? It is shameful how he was treated.

    There are rules around child soldiers. They were ignored and he was abused by the US.
    Umm his "torture" was sleep denial, that's it, he wasn't waterboarded, beaten, shocked, raped. And the denial was being moved cell to cell in 3 hour intervals, not no sleep for weeks.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...-says-1.726250
    Gee sounds just terrible..( sheesh)

    Did they really need to announce this on Juty 4th..

    Interesting details on Omar Khadr written in 2006 that describes his mental and physical torture and the politic surrounding his abuse.


    The Unending Torture of Omar Khadr
    He was a child of jihad, a teenage soldier in bin Laden's army. Captured on the battlefield when he was only fifteen, he has been held at Guantanamo Bay for the past four years -- subjected to unspeakable abuse sanctioned by the president himself
    https://web.archive.org/web/20070828...tmo_cell/print

    Excerpt

    By the time Omar's lawyers took his case, it was clear that the torture methods used at Guantanamo had been directly authorized by President Bush. In January 2002, the president's lawyer, Alberto Gonzales, working for the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, advised the president that nearly all forms of torture were legal. Physical abuse was not torture unless it generated the intensity of pain associated with "organ failure, impairment of bodily function or even death." Psychological methods were illegal only if they inflicted harm that endured for "months, or even years." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld approved a new interrogation paradigm, and Gen. Geoffrey Miller instituted the same SERE techniques at Guantanamo that he would later bring to Abu Ghraib.
    The people who brought you Abu Ghraib. Abu Ghraib is considered the pivotal point where Islamic Terrorism and especially ISIS was inspired.


    Sabrina Harman poses over the corpse of Manadel al-Jamadi, after he was tortured to death in U.S. custody.
    Only six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts


    Specialist Charles A. Graner punching handcuffed Iraqi prisoners



    A detainee handcuffed in the nude to a bed with female panties soaked in urine covering his face.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Gh...prisoner_abuse
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 07-07-2017 at 08:42 AM.
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  51. #151

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    Okay, I'm ******* sick of the idiocy and done with writing a diatribe every single time a friend posts about how they're upset that Trudeau is giving a terrorist $10m. You people are.... wilfully ignorant and hypocritical. Here's why. (And I thoroughly suggest reading the entire post. If you know me, you know I'm neither stupid, nor an apologist. I am pure ******* science, and this post is such. Read it before making an *** of yourself by posting about how we just gave a terrorist money).


    The story (the facts we know).
    * Canadian born Khadr was taken to Afghanistan at 15 years old, by his father. We don't know if he wanted to go, and we don't know why they went. There has been zero evidence put forth to suggest the trip had anything to do with terrorism. Regardless, as he was only 15, he had no choice in the matter.
    (EDIT: He was actually taken to Afghanistan at 9 years of age. He was taken to Gitmo at 15)
    * Khadr was found in critical condition following a firefight. The mission debrief report filed by the US troops stated that a middle aged man threw a grenade, which killed one US soldier. The grenadier was shot in the head and confirmed killed.
    * Khadr was taken to Guantanamo Bay prison. No charges were filed against him at that time.
    * Several years later, formal charges were filed. These charges were technically not even charges of war crimes, as if they were true, Khadr would be considered an enemy combatant during a time of war, and thus everything he was accused of doing, was legal under rules of engagement. He was denied access to a lawyer at this point and no trial date was set. He was held in detention and tortured for nearly 10 years.
    * Nearly a decade later, an addendum to the original mission debrief was submitted, which identified the grenadier as Khadr by name. The description was updated to match that of a 15 year old Khadr. The original report was not rescinded. No one knows who made the addendum. No US personnel present during the firefight confirms the addendum.
    * A week later, Khadr is offered a plea deal. The terms of the deal were to admit guilt to all charges and serve a few more years in a Canadian prison, or refuse to admit guilt and be denied trial indefinitely.
    * Khadr takes the plea deal, is transferred to Canada.
    * Khadr sues the Canadian government for their involvement in his illegal detention, torture, and lack of a trial.


    All of the above is true as far as anyone knows. That is the official story, from both the Canadian and US governments. They have said straight out that Khadr would not be offered a trial unless he took the plea deal. Just let that sink in for a moment.


    Now let me ask you a question.
    As a Canadian, what do you stand for? Do you believe that you, as a Canadian, have the right to be presumed innocent, until proven guilty, as well as the right to a fair and quick trial? I know this is hard for many of you to consider without jumping to "oh, but he's a terrorist, so **** him, he's a traitor and doesn't deserve anything", but we'll get to that in a minute. Seriously consider this. Do you believe you have, as a Canadian, the inalienable right to everything laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?


    If you do, but still think Khadr does not, because he is a terrorist, let me ask you; "How do you know he is guilty?" There was no trial for 10 years, and he was only offered a trial on the condition that he plead guilty. How do we, as Canadians, determine guilt? Have you read and understood the Chart of Rights and Freedoms? It's entire purpose is precisely to ensure that what happened to Khadr, is not allowed to happen. Period.


    Now I know many of you still can't get past the "but he's a traitor so he doesn't deserve a trial" even though neither you, nor me, nor the US or Canadian government were able to provide ANY evidence whatsoever, of his guilt (no evidence was submitted during his trial, presumably because none exists), but that doesn't matter. Let me explain the problem to you.


    You are worried that terrorists are trying to take away your freedoms as a Canadian right? They're trying to force Sharia law upon us and we as Canadians, won't stand for that right?


    Do you see where I'm going here? Presuming Khadr's guilt, with no evidence and without trial, is precisely what the terrorists want to do to Canada. Isn't that your concern? Does it not strike you then, that by saying that Khadr doesn't deserve a fair trial because he is a terrorist, with absolutely no evidence, nor a trial to prove the charges, that you are doing precisely what you are worried the terrorists are trying to do do us? A presumption of guilt, no trial, a decade of detention and torture. Is that not Sharia law?


    At this point, I don't think any of us should even be concerned about Khadrs innocence or guilt. He is inconsequential at this point. The REAL concern for all Canadians, is that our government denied a Canadian citizen his inalienable rights, guaranteed to him under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They did EXACTLY what you are worried the terrorists are trying to do. If Khadr was guilty, a trial probably would have proven such, so why was he denied a trial?


    For your information, the Canadian government did not simply offer up an apology and $10m for no reason. They were sued. The Canadian Supreme Court found in favour of Khadr, in that the Canadian government was in breach of Canadian and International law. That money will mostly be covering his legal fees. But here's where you should be more concerned about the money. The Canadian government spent $120m of your money, defending itself for committing what is legally, war crimes. Seriously. Your government, was just successfully sued, for war crimes. Crimes they committed not only against Khadr, but against the entire Canadian public. They assured us that we would all be given a fair trial, but now we know that is not true. They assured us that we will always be presumed innocent until proven guilty. We know that is not true. They took your money, money which could have been spent on building half a hospital or something, and spent it instead, on committing war crimes, and crimes directly against the Charter on which our country was founded.


    In summation:
    If you believe Khadr did not deserve a fair and quick trial, you are not Canadian. You do not stand for what Canada stands for. You are saying very clearly, that you don't care about evidence, treating people (who we presume are innocent until proven guilty) with basic decency, or your own or anyone else's right to a fair trial. You are, quite literally, openly supporting about half of Sharia law. You fuckwits.

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The 'fake' news is reporting that Khadr already has the cash.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/07...it_a_23020282/
    Everyones reporting he got the cash already. 630 ched said thid morning that the govt purposely moved quickly so they would avoid the court date set by the lawyers representing the dead soldier that already won a significant judgement against him.

    The govt never moves quickly with anything so its interesting to see them purposely moving so fast with this.

  53. #153

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    i read a canadian soldier who loses both legs will only get a 270k settlement from our govt.. .

    How do you continue to justify 10m settlement when our vets who went to war and lose limbs get peanuts... lets not forget the undeniable charter rights that were ignored with first nations who got peanuts for way worst crimes committed by our govt over the last 100 years.

  54. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    i read a canadian soldier who loses both legs will only get a 270k settlement from our govt.. .

    How do you continue to justify 10m settlement when our vets who went to war and lose limbs get peanuts... lets not forget the undeniable charter rights that were ignored with first nations who got peanuts for way worst crimes committed by our govt over the last 100 years.
    So we should have spent millions fighting a case we were gonna lose & end up paying Omar double what he's gotten?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    i read a canadian soldier who loses both legs will only get a 270k settlement from our govt.. .

    How do you continue to justify 10m settlement when our vets who went to war and lose limbs get peanuts... lets not forget the undeniable charter rights that were ignored with first nations who got peanuts for way worst crimes committed by our govt over the last 100 years.
    The treatment of Canadian Vets is a concern for sure, but is unrelated to this issue. You might as well be talking about any other government spending vs Canadian Vets.

    As for the settlement amount to the First Nations, that went through a legal process and was a $2 Billion settlement. There were nearly 80,000 people compensated and money set aside for other things like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And if your point is that the compensation they received for the horrors of the Residential School program was low, then we can agree with that. But that's still not what this thread is about.

    As others have pointed out, $10 million settlement with Khar is half of the $20 million lawsuit. The government is likely paying out because they didn't think they could win the case for sure. At that point it's a negotiation.

  56. #156

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    Medwards, you are wasting your breath. There is no reasoning with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Medwards, you are wasting your breath. There is no reasoning with them.
    Pretty sure that's a Facebook copy paste.

  58. #158

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    It was a copy/paste

  59. #159

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    Best copy/paste ever!

    Well done Medwards!
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  60. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/opini...675/story.html


    If nothing else, at the very least, it’s a brilliant victory for the Taliban, al-Qaida, ISIL and all the other extremists: A young jihadist is now a hero in Canada for killing an infidel – and look, he got a big payday and an apology to boot.

    Well said!
    Oh the irony of what the writer followed that up with:

    What’s next: Do we apologize to the Germans for winning what another friend calls “those two memorable misunderstandings?”

    The US Marshall Plan gave 13 Billion to European Countries after WWII, including 11% of that to West Germany.
    Thanks for posting. I was wondering where she was going with that. She completely skewered herself with that example. What on Earth?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  61. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post


    At this point, I don't think any of us should even be concerned about Khadrs innocence or guilt. He is inconsequential at this point. The REAL concern for all Canadians, is that our government denied a Canadian citizen his inalienable rights, guaranteed to him under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They did EXACTLY what you are worried the terrorists are trying to do. If Khadr was guilty, a trial probably would have proven such, so why was he denied a trial?

    Agreed with everything but wanted to focus on this.

    What Canadian politics, jurisprudence, sense of justice has become has of course very little to do with terrorism and is more a general byproduct of intense partisan politics, political opportunism, head in the sand avoidance of justice, and very interestingly both the Liberals and Cons are unmasked in this one. With the taxpayer being made to pay for the cowardice of our elected leaders not withholding basic justice.

    This is our own self implosion politically, from which this nature of injustice prevails. Canadian voters probably deserve the political cowardice that allowed this to unravel.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  62. #162

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    Exactly

    We don't have leaders anymore. We have politicians who are in constant campaigning mode that are more interested in partisan politics and polls rather than in good governance. We need leaders who look out for our greater interests, rather than followers who hound us for our votes.
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    Because abuse did happen at Abu Ghraib and Guatanamo Bay doesn't mean Omar Khadr was subjected to it. Rest assured if anything more than sleep deprivation happened to Omar, his lawyer would have mentioned it. Funny that his lawyer never mentioned it.

    Next, while the grenade incident is based on evidence that has some doubt, there is a video of him assembling and planting IEDs against coalition forces, a coalition that Canada was a part of. Under Section 46 of the Criminal Code this is high treason.
    46 (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,
    ...
    (b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or
    (c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are
    http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...ge-7.html#h-13

    So why do we owe Omar Khadr an apology and $10.5 when evidence exists that he committed high treason?
    Last edited by sundance; 07-07-2017 at 11:18 AM.

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    In Canada, cases that take more than 30 months get dismissed as being unfair to the accused.

    This case took over a decade. That's ignoring the torture, lack of legal representation and more.

    From the mouth of the Public Saftey Minister:

    "It is not about previous behaviour on the battlefield in Afghanistan; it is about the acts and other decisions the Canadian government took against Mr. Khadr after he was captured and detained. Those facts are not in dispute and there is no doubt about how the Supreme Court views them. The government of Canada offended the most basic standards,"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundance
    Because abuse did happen at Abu Ghraib and Guatanamo Bay doesn't mean Omar Khadr was subjected to it. Rest assured if anything more than sleep deprivation happened to Omar, his lawyer would have mentioned it. Funny that his lawyer never mentioned it.


    Funny how the Supreme Court unanimously found that his fundamental, constitutional rights were violated: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/khadr-...court-1.893059

    However, the top court agreed Canadian officials violated Khadr's human rights, and that he continues to be threatened by the effect of those violations.

    In a unanimous decision released Friday, the court declared that Canadian officials breached Khadr's right to life, liberty and security of the person under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance
    So why do we owe Omar Khadr an apology and $10.5 when evidence exists that he committed high treason?


    How many times does someone have to tell you "two wrongs don't make a right" before it sinks in?

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    Below is a link to the video of Omar Khadr assembling and planting an IED
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQjYowsBgc

    The violation of rights, which didn't happen in Canada, wasn't done by Canadians, is a separate issue then the fact he acted against forces allied with Canada.

    Last edited by sundance; 07-07-2017 at 11:34 AM.

  67. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Below is a link to the video of Omar Khadr assembling and planting an IED
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQjYowsBgc
    Here's the Supreme Court of Canada judgement that the Canadian Government denied Omar Khadr his basic & unalienable human rights as a Canadian citizen under the Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms.

    https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/sc.../7842/index.do
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  68. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Medwards, you are wasting your breath. There is no reasoning with them.
    To me, this stuation seems to primarily be a significant failure to protect a Canadian's constitutional rights (a youth!) when the government was in a strong position to do so, however that need to protect those rights arose out of a cascading series of events that seemed to be beyond the reach of the government. That said, a series of administrations (Liberal and Conservative ) didn't act and the political reality of those impediments to acting are being ignored. Thus it may have been a catch22 situation - essentially the reality vs the constitutional theory.

    If so, it seems to me that there may be issues (constitutional contravention risk exposure) that this could be the impetus to address to prevent similar catch22 situations in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of issues around dual citizenship, moving or keeping Canadian children in countries in a state of war, indoctrination of ideologies and hatred that would lead Canadians to fight against Canada's allies, etc, leaving Canada and joining allied, or other military forces without explicit government permission, belonging to a military force that subsequently engages in battles against allied forces, etc. So maybe requirements could be put in place to require a return to Canada within a reasonable time period or risk charges or reduced redress due to foreign residency beyond the reach of Canada's extraterritorial powers... some such claptrap. So as a Canadian you cannot go fight someone else's battles and then be able to call on Canada to get you out of trouble.

  69. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Below is a link to the video of Omar Khadr assembling and planting an IED
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQjYowsBgc
    Here's the Supreme Court of Canada judgement that the Canadian Government denied Omar Khadr his basic & unalienable human rights as a Canadian citizen under the Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms.

    https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/sc.../7842/index.do
    We have other Canadians going to fight battles by joining foreign armies - often ignored if they are fighting a common enemy, maybe one where our usual allies, like the US, are fighting - but where Canadian forces are not being deployed by our government.

    Basically, my problem with that is: common enemy or not, who are these citizens to think they can go and engage in war without joining our Canadian forces and engaging in battles only when and if our elected representatives say they can engage in battle.


    50 shades of war: Canadians dive into conflicts’ grey zones | Toronto Star

    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...rey-zones.html
    Last edited by KC; 07-07-2017 at 11:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Below is a link to the video of Omar Khadr assembling and planting an IED
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQjYowsBgc

    The violation of rights, which didn't happen in Canada, wasn't done by Canadians, is a separate issue then the fact he acted against forces allied with Canada.

    Wow, look at him being made to do that! Sheesh

  71. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Below is a link to the video of Omar Khadr assembling and planting an IED
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQjYowsBgc

    The violation of rights, which didn't happen in Canada, wasn't done by Canadians, is a separate issue then the fact he acted against forces allied with Canada.

    Wow, look at him being made to do that! Sheesh
    Hmm. Have any kids / family in the military?

    Possibly have a strong faith in a religion - only because your parents were of that same religion, and not as a result of years of study and attendance with other faiths?

  72. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    The violation of rights, which didn't happen in Canada, wasn't done by Canadians, is a separate issue then the fact he acted against forces allied with Canada.

    WRONG!

    This Court declares that through the conduct of Canadian officials in the course of interrogations in 2003-2004, as established on the evidence before us, Canada actively participated in a process contrary to Canada’s international human rights obligations and contributed to Mr. Khadr’s ongoing detention so as to deprive him of his right to liberty and security of the person guaranteed by s. 7 of the Charter , contrary to the principles of fundamental justice.
    https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/sc.../7842/index.do

    Canada ACTIVELY participated in denying a citizen his rights. It's not even that we looked the other way, we were actively complicit in it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Below is a link to the video of Omar Khadr assembling and planting an IED
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQjYowsBgc

    The violation of rights, which didn't happen in Canada, wasn't done by Canadians, is a separate issue then the fact he acted against forces allied with Canada.

    Wow, look at him being made to do that! Sheesh
    Hmm. Have any kids / family in the military?

    Possibly have a strong faith in a religion - only because your parents were of that same religion, and not as a result of years of study and attendance with other faiths?
    Yes, my son served.Their faith would never allow for this type of BS! Nice try though!

  74. #174

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    H.L., How many former Germans soldiers came to Canada after WWI & WWII in the 1950's?


    Canada welcomed former Nazis and avowed enemies, with open arms and they become productive model Canadian citizens.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 07-07-2017 at 12:14 PM.
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    The government could have apologized. End of story. And how ignorant that Khadr "hopes an apology will help restore his reputation". He's lucky to be living in "the best country on the planet" according to little spud . Yes, best for some but not others...e.g. First Nations or Canadian veterans. I'd rant on CBC but there are no comments allowed, I wonder why???

    People are really po'd!!
    https://www.baytoday.ca/local-news/petition-opposing-10-million-payout-to-omar-khadr-reaches-52000-signatures-663425

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    It just seems like a lot of people have forgotten what it's like to be a kid, and how little control you can have over your own life. He left at age 9, his worldview would have been completely shaped by his father and his friends (terrorists). He would have been brainwashed into thinking that Americans were the enemy, and if they didn't kill them, they themselves would be killed (Not to mention the religious aspect to that brainwashing). It shouldn't be hard to see that, most kids views are completely shaped by their parents, and they don't start having their own opinions until later in life. I know my views were exactly those of my parents until the end of highschool, nearly a complete reflection of their beliefs. I didn't question many things, because it was what I had been taught, and I hadn't been exposed to enough differing opinions or reasons to start questioning them.

    And realistically, let's say he didn't want to make an IED. What happens? He's with a bunch of terrorists. He would probably be beaten, starved, mocked, who knows what. A lot of you seem to lack the ability to put yourselves in the shoes of someone else, to try and understand the situation he was in.

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    ^^"Don't worry about the Human Rights abuses etc, You should be thankful that we didn't kill you!" lol, so kind of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    It just seems like a lot of people have forgotten what it's like to be a kid, and how little control you can have over your own life. He left at age 9, his worldview would have been completely shaped by his father and his friends (terrorists). He would have been brainwashed into thinking that Americans were the enemy, and if they didn't kill them, they themselves would be killed (Not to mention the religious aspect to that brainwashing). It shouldn't be hard to see that, most kids views are completely shaped by their parents, and they don't start having their own opinions until later in life. I know my views were exactly those of my parents until the end of highschool, nearly a complete reflection of their beliefs. I didn't question many things, because it was what I had been taught, and I hadn't been exposed to enough differing opinions or reasons to start questioning them.

    And realistically, let's say he didn't want to make an IED. What happens? He's with a bunch of terrorists. He would probably be beaten, starved, mocked, who knows what. A lot of you seem to lack the ability to put yourselves in the shoes of someone else, to try and understand the situation he was in.
    And some of you are so gaga over the guy, its frighteningly sick!

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    And some of you are so gaga over the guy, its frighteningly sick!
    I'm no fan of Omar. I am, however, exceedingly proud of my country for creating the Charter. I'm disappointed with the government breaching it & violating the fundamental rights all Canadians have under it in their handling of Omar's case.
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    This message is hidden because noodle is on your ignore list.


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    You're welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    And some of you are so gaga over the guy, its frighteningly sick!
    I'm no fan of Omar. I am, however, exceedingly proud of my country for creating the Charter. I'm disappointed with the government breaching it & violating the fundamental rights all Canadians have under it in their handling of Omar's case.

  82. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    You're welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    And some of you are so gaga over the guy, its frighteningly sick!
    I'm no fan of Omar. I am, however, exceedingly proud of my country for creating the Charter. I'm disappointed with the government breaching it & violating the fundamental rights all Canadians have under it in their handling of Omar's case.
    And maybe Hello Lady has noodle on ignore too.
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  83. #183

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    read another interesting article that states any canadian actively engager in combat against canada can be charged with treason which comes with a life time sentence.

    Curious why this wasnt done when khadr is on video planting ieds that killed 97 canadians.

  84. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    H.L., How many former Germans soldiers came to Canada after WWI & WWII in the 1950's?


    Canada welcomed former Nazis and avowed enemies, with open arms and they become productive model Canadian citizens.
    What happened in WWII for Canadian's who went and fought for the Germans? The basic rule was - you were shot as a traitor. If a Canadian teen at 16 goes to prison for murdering his girlfriend, a teen who probably had all sorts of upbringing issues as well, why do we have a problem with a traitor who killed an unarmed medic at 15 (in addition to countless western troops with IED's)? Could the Liberal government have done better to avoid the charter issues when they sent the CSIS spies to Guantanamo? With hindsight, yes, but that's not a reason to make this guy a multi-millionaire when people who have undergone much more horrific experiences in residential schools and similar get mere thousands.
    Last edited by moahunter; 07-07-2017 at 01:34 PM.

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    read another interesting article that states any canadian actively engager in combat against canada can be charged with treason which comes with a life time sentence.

    Curious why this wasnt done when khadr is on video planting ieds that killed 97 canadians.
    Because he was a child soldier, and no court would convict him or even get past a preliminary hearing. Not to mention that no prosecutor in their right mind would bring the case in the first place. Especially in light of his subsequent treatment afterward. Honestly, what do you anti-settlement people think the other option here was? Other than continuing to fight a completely unwinnable legal battle and throwing even more money away.

    Also, you worded your post to imply that Khadr himself planted IED's that killed 97 Canadians. There is zero evidence or proof of that implication. For all we know, every IED he made was a dud, or only killed Americans, or civilians, or whatever. You're making connections with zero basis upon which to do so.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 07-07-2017 at 01:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    read another interesting article that states any canadian actively engager in combat against canada can be charged with treason which comes with a life time sentence.

    Curious why this wasnt done when khadr is on video planting ieds that killed 97 canadians.
    Was his father friends with Creepy Chretien?

    Just like jihadi Justin, he's mentally unstable imnsho.
    Last edited by H.L.; 07-07-2017 at 01:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    H.L., How many former Germans soldiers came to Canada after WWI & WWII in the 1950's?


    Canada welcomed former Nazis and avowed enemies, with open arms and they become productive model Canadian citizens.
    What happened in WWII for Canadian's who went and fought for the Germans? The basic rule was - you were shot as a traitor. If a Canadian teen at 16 goes to prison for murdering his girlfriend, a teen who probably had all sorts of upbringing issues as well, why do we have a problem with a traitor who killed an unarmed medic at 15 (in addition to countless western troops with IED's)? Could the Liberal government have done better to avoid the charter issues when they sent the CSIS spies to Guantanamo? With hindsight, yes, but that's not a reason to make this guy a multi-millionaire when people who have undergone much more horrific experiences in residential schools and similar get mere thousands.
    Exactly!!

  88. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    It just seems like a lot of people have forgotten what it's like to be a kid, and how little control you can have over your own life. He left at age 9, his worldview would have been completely shaped by his father and his friends (terrorists). He would have been brainwashed into thinking that Americans were the enemy, and if they didn't kill them, they themselves would be killed (Not to mention the religious aspect to that brainwashing). It shouldn't be hard to see that, most kids views are completely shaped by their parents, and they don't start having their own opinions until later in life. I know my views were exactly those of my parents until the end of highschool, nearly a complete reflection of their beliefs. I didn't question many things, because it was what I had been taught, and I hadn't been exposed to enough differing opinions or reasons to start questioning them.

    And realistically, let's say he didn't want to make an IED. What happens? He's with a bunch of terrorists. He would probably be beaten, starved, mocked, who knows what. A lot of you seem to lack the ability to put yourselves in the shoes of someone else, to try and understand the situation he was in.
    Yep. It seems as if virtually none of the context is understood or even thought of in any of this. People comparing it to something some kid would or would not do in NA is bizarre. More evident of some not being able to see beyond their noses.
    Last edited by Replacement; 07-07-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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  89. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    You're making connections with zero basis upon which to do so.
    Hey, if it's good enough for an American kangaroo court it's good enough for gwill211, sundance & hardly lucid.
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    ^^And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that excuses anything he may or may not have done But he should have been tried in the court of law, and been found guilty or innocent within the confines of our legal system.

  91. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    But he should have been tried in the court of law, and been found guilty or innocent within the confines of our legal system.
    Exactly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seamusmcduffs View Post
    But he should have been tried in the court of law, and been found guilty or innocent within the confines of our legal system.
    Exactly.
    Bingo!

  93. #193

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    I guess the Americans suspected that we would not gleefully torture him like Rumsfeld wanted to.

    Amazing that Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush were not charged with war crimes.

    opps, they were
    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics...ey-war-crimes/
    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...s-in-absentia/
    Just not in the good old usa
    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...hers-be-jailed
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  94. #194

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    the child soldiers in africa are 6,7,8 yrs old. Khadr was 15 fighting in afghanistan. Major freaking difference marcel.

    Khadr was tried for murdering a us marine. He should have been tried in canada when he came back for treason as per our laws.

  95. #195

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    Nobody can help you understand if you fail to read any of the posts or evidence that proves you are wrong.

    Bigotry is hard to cure if the person does not want to educate themselves.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  96. #196
    C2E SME
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211
    the child soldiers in africa are 6,7,8 yrs old. Khadr was 15 fighting in afghanistan. Major freaking difference marcel.


    He was 9 when his father brought him to Afghanistan and began associating him with terrorists etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211
    Khadr was tried for murdering a us marine.


    He was tried in 2 US military tribunals, where his rights were severely curtailed, after years of illegal treatment. His own defense attorney (who was a US Marine, no less) at one point referred to the tribunals as a sham and that he found them disgusting (see here:
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15783244). The first tribunal collapsed when the entire process was found to be unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. So they had to pass a new law to try him again. And initially, that collapsed again as well for technical reasons, although eventually they did get it back on the rails. Apparently during the tribunal, lots of evidence was withheld from Khadr himself (although not his defense counsel), which is pretty much a fundamental aspect of any legitimate justice system for the past few centuries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confrontation_Clause).

    The whole thing was a sham, basically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_K...econd_tribunal

    February also saw the accidental release of a five-page "OC-1" witness report to reporters, which revealed that Khadr had not been the only survivor in the compound, as previously claimed, and that nobody had seen him throw the grenade. Officials insisted that the reporters all had to return their copies of the document or face expulsion from the hearings, but after a 90-minute standoff between reporters and military officials, it was agreed that they could retain their copies of the report, but had to redact three names from the report.[140][141]

    In March, Kuebler insisted that "Lt. Col. W." had initially written in his report the day after the firefight that "the person who threw a grenade that killed Sgt. 1st Class Christopher J. Speer also died in the firefight", implying that the grenade had indeed been thrown by the surviving Mujahideen, and not by Khadr. The report was rewritten months later to say that the grenade thrower had been "engaged", rather than "killed", changing the wording that exonerated Khadr.[142] In response, Brownback ordered that the commander be made available for an interview by the defence counsel no later than April 4.[143] and postponed the scheduled May 5 date for the murder trial to begin,[144] while prosecutor Groharing urged Brownback to begin the trial as soon as possible, stressing a "need for justice" for Speer's widow.[145]The following month, Kuebler suggested it was possible that the fatal grenade had actually been one of those being thrown into the compound by American troops while the small team searched the interior.[44]
    Kuebler accused the military of encouraging interrogators to "minimize certain legal issues" by keeping as few records as possible and destroying their notes, and suggested he would seek a dismissal.[146]
    On May 8, 2008, Brownback threatened to suspend the military hearing if prosecutors did not provide the defense with a number of documents, including an al-Qaeda membership list, documents on the relationship between al-Qaeda and al-Libi's Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, copies of the Detainee Information Management System records related to Khadr's treatment in Guantanamo, documents on the use of children by al-Qaeda, investigator notes of witness interviews, details about the militants who were killed in the 2002 firefight, and others.[147][148] Prosecutors did agree to turn over the videotape of Canadian intelligence official Jim Gould and Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) agents interrogating Khadr in February 2003, but said they would alter the tape to hide the identity of the interrogators.[147] Following Brownback's "ruling against the government", the Pentagon announced that he was being removed from the trial in favour of Patrick Parrish, leading critics to highlight what they believed was "more evidence of the illegitimacy" of the tribunal and that official explanations of the timing as being coincidental were "unconvincing".[149][150][151] Parrish, known as "Rocket Docket" for his tendency to speed through trials, immediately ordered a court date of October 8, 2008.
    Find evidence that exonerates him? Keep it secret or simply ignore it! Presiding officer makes a decision you don't like? Remove him!

    In the end, it's no wonder he plead guilty. The entire thing was rigged against him form the start.

  97. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    He should have been tried in canada when he came back for treason as per our laws.
    Continuing your fine tradition of being wrong on this topic I see...

    Had the events happened under Canadian jurisdiction, they would not have been enough to lay a charge, let alone secure a conviction.
    This case represents a Canadian tragedy and failure of moral courage on the part of our government. When Canada should have championed transparency, due process and the rule of law in the Khadr proceedings, we stood mute or actively participated in his abusive interrogation in custody.
    Had the Canadian government done so, any criminal trial in open court would most likely have ended in a humiliating defeat for the U.S. government, and public perception would be very different from what it is today.
    To any trial lawyer, it's plain that Khadr pled guilty for a very simple reason: his plea deal offered a return to Canada and eventual freedom — clearly a better alternative than a lifetime of suffering in Guantanamo.
    http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017...dr-isnt-guilty
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  98. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211
    the child soldiers in africa are 6,7,8 yrs old. Khadr was 15 fighting in afghanistan. Major freaking difference marcel.
    [COLOR=#333333]

    He was 9 when his father brought him to Afghanistan and began associating him with terrorists etc.
    Great - why don't we give every terrorist who kills someone $10m dollars if they grew up as children with bad people? Lots of Canadians grow up in Canada with bad people and in bad situations, we don't give them a 10m reward for killing someone. If you kill someone at 16 in Canada, even 15, you can be tried as an adult, you can go to jail, and no cash reward. Do at 15 in the middle east, killing not just one but probably many more with explosives you have yourself videotaped planting for western troops, be lucky enough that US doesn't kill you but rather puts you in a warm location in cuba, and, the PC brigade are all too happy to hand out an insane amount of cash, all because the Liberal government sent some CSIS agents to check in on him.
    Last edited by moahunter; 07-07-2017 at 03:59 PM.

  99. #199

    Default

    Afghanistan is the Middle East?

    I see your geography skills are on par with your civics knowledge, reading comprehension & critical thinking skills.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  100. #200

    Default

    ^semantics.

    The Greater Middle East was a political term coined by the second Bush administration in the first decade of the 21st century,[25] to denote various countries, pertaining to the Muslim world, specifically Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan and Pakistan.[26] Various Central Asian countries are sometimes also included.[27]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East

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