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Thread: Omar Khadr judgment/settlement

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211
    the child soldiers in africa are 6,7,8 yrs old. Khadr was 15 fighting in afghanistan. Major freaking difference marcel.
    [COLOR=#333333]

    He was 9 when his father brought him to Afghanistan and began associating him with terrorists etc.
    Great - why don't we give every terrorist who kills someone $10m dollars if they grew up as children with bad people? Lots of Canadians grow up in Canada with bad people and in bad situations, we don't give them a 10m reward for killing someone. If you kill someone at 16 in Canada, even 15, you can be tried as an adult, you can go to jail, and no cash reward. Do at 15 in the middle east, killing not just one but probably many more with explosives you have yourself videotaped planting for western troops, be lucky enough that US doesn't kill you but rather puts you in a warm location in cuba, and, the PC brigade are all too happy to hand out an insane amount of cash, all because the Liberal government sent some CSIS agents to check in on him.
    Hey moa, here is a great "get rich quick"idea for you. Go to Afghanistan, get captured, beaten,tortured, imprisoned without trial, stuck in solitary confinement for years.

    Then I will give you $10m of my own money.
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Great - why don't we give every terrorist who kills someone $10m dollars if they grew up as children with bad people? Lots of Canadians grow up in Canada with bad people and in bad situations, we don't give them a 10m reward for killing someone. If you kill someone at 16 in Canada, even 15, you can be tried as an adult, you can go to jail, and no cash reward. Do at 15 in the middle east, killing not just one but probably many more with explosives you have yourself videotaped planting for western troops, be lucky enough that US doesn't kill you but rather puts you in a warm location in cuba, and, the PC brigade are all too happy to hand out an insane amount of cash, all because the Liberal government sent some CSIS agents to check in on him.
    As I asked in a previous post: "Honestly, what do you anti-settlement people think the other option here was? Other than continuing to fight a completely unwinnable legal battle and throwing even more money away."

    The Canadian Supreme Court has twice unanimously ruled that his rights were violated. What do you propose? That our government ignore the Supreme Court? That we repeal the Charter? What? His legal case was pretty much a guaranteed win, whether you like it or not.

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    read another interesting article that states any canadian actively engager in combat against canada can be charged with treason which comes with a life time sentence.

    Curious why this wasnt done when khadr is on video planting ieds that killed 97 canadians.
    You know why don't you stop running around with your hair on fire and actually listen to what people say. The kid was a minor, he was 9 when he left Canada. He was in his father's custody and his father was up to no good along with his terrorists friends. What does a kid of 9 do in a situation when his survival depends on his father. Even if he knew he was doing wrong what was his alternative. He could not go down to the local government office and ask to speak to a social worker, could not run away as there was destruction all around him, no cops, nothing. So his father and his fathers friend basically taught him and expected him to fight for their cause.
    Oh wait, why am I and others constantly trying to tell you this. You should know as after all you were born with a full set of teeth, a head of hair, a beard, you walked upright and had the brain of an adult and you had fathered a kid before you were one year old. Your parents did not have to teach you right from wrong, the art of survival or any of that. You knew that instinctively the minute you were conceived.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211
    the child soldiers in africa are 6,7,8 yrs old. Khadr was 15 fighting in afghanistan. Major freaking difference marcel.
    [COLOR=#333333]

    He was 9 when his father brought him to Afghanistan and began associating him with terrorists etc.
    Great - why don't we give every terrorist who kills someone $10m dollars if they grew up as children with bad people? Lots of Canadians grow up in Canada with bad people and in bad situations, we don't give them a 10m reward for killing someone. If you kill someone at 16 in Canada, even 15, you can be tried as an adult, you can go to jail, and no cash reward. Do at 15 in the middle east, killing not just one but probably many more with explosives you have yourself videotaped planting for western troops, be lucky enough that US doesn't kill you but rather puts you in a warm location in cuba, and, the PC brigade are all too happy to hand out an insane amount of cash, all because the Liberal government sent some CSIS agents to check in on him.
    Cripes it's like trying to go through kryptonite with a cotton swab:



    https://www.google.ca/search?q=jokes...w=1280&bih=523
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  5. #205

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    Marcel- did it need to be 10m? Did it need to be secretly paid to circumnvent the law suit filed to prevent khadr from getting the money?

    Optics would have looked great if khadr was paid and the money went to the soldier khadr killed.

  6. #206

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    You still don't get it do you? These things are negotiated. The lawyer had a good case and could win the $20 million and sometimes Judges add more punitive fines. They settled at $10 million. Deal with it.

    Was any of this secret? NO! It is all public knowledge. Dumbass!
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    The government is not above the law. The Supreme Court of Canada determined they violated his right to a fair trial, twice. The law is for everyone not only for the people you like or what you think they may or may not have done. The previous government thought they could ignore a Supreme Court decision for political expediency much as Andrew Scheer wants to do now. Dangerously to close to a totalitarian for my comfort.
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    The $10m figure is in line with Maher Arar's settlement which I assume would be the baseline for compensation. Arar spent over a year in confinement whereas Khadr was incarcerated for over a decade.

    A large portion of that compensation will likely go to his lawyers who worked pro bono and supposedly amassed considerable debt in doing so.
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    If a large portion of the payment goes to the lawyers it isn't really pro bono is it?
    Last edited by SP59; 07-07-2017 at 11:37 PM. Reason: pro not for

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    If a large portion of the payment goes to the lawyers it isn't really for bono is it?
    No, and if you think his Scottish lawyer, who I can't stand, did all this for free, I have swampland in Florida! He knew a lawsuit would happen, and he knew there would be a big payout!

  11. #211

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    Actually I met his 'Scottish' lawyer a few times some years back in a work environment setting. For what interaction I had with him he seemed like a very nice person.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You still don't get it do you? These things are negotiated. The lawyer had a good case and could win the $20 million and sometimes Judges add more punitive fines. They settled at $10 million. Deal with it.

    Was any of this secret? NO! It is all public knowledge. Dumbass!
    Im sorry your heads so far up your *** but when the govt decided to pay khadr they purposely sped up the payment so the pending law suit against khadr wouldnt get any of it. None of this was public. The information being released were all leaks.

    Thats pretty messed up. Khadr has a major judgment against him from court. I assume you think khadr will be paying some of it?

    How long till khadrs really really bad family takes the money from him? You know, the same guys everyone blames and uses as the excuse?

  13. #213
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    The irony is that if Khadr had been handed over to Canadian officials for prosecution for terrorism offences he could have theoretically been tried as an adult in a Canadian court and sentenced to serve time in the Canadian penal system and there wouldn't have been any claim of liability against the government.

    So at the end of the day you can lay the blame at the government and our legal system for having to pay restitution.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    And maybe Hello Lady has noodle on ignore too.
    I think Hello Lady has a lot on ignore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You still don't get it do you? These things are negotiated. The lawyer had a good case and could win the $20 million and sometimes Judges add more punitive fines. They settled at $10 million. Deal with it.

    Was any of this secret? NO! It is all public knowledge. Dumbass!
    Im sorry your heads so far up your *** but when the govt decided to pay khadr they purposely sped up the payment so the pending law suit against khadr wouldnt get any of it. None of this was public. The information being released were all leaks.

    Thats pretty messed up. Khadr has a major judgment against him from court. I assume you think khadr will be paying some of it?

    How long till khadrs really really bad family takes the money from him? You know, the same guys everyone blames and uses as the excuse?
    I kind of agree with Sgt. Spears on this by paying Khadr the $10 million basically means Canada is aiding and abetting terrorism.

    Isn't there a Canadian Law that states if you support terrorism abroad and are caught you lose your passport and Canadian Citizenship?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    And maybe Hello Lady has noodle on ignore too.
    I think Hello Lady has a lot on ignore.
    Its H.L. I don't have a lot, but a few, because they are condescending @sses, that delight in bringing other peoples opinions down. It's a sport with them. I've watched moa, and a few others post, not be rude, and along come the bully boys, and they look ridiculous. I have let others who aren't on this board read what they say, and they concur. Its easy to block someone, rather than let them think what they say has any importance to me...
    Good day,

    Btw. Would you interact with someone that calls you scum? Who does that? Smh
    Last edited by H.L.; 08-07-2017 at 07:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You still don't get it do you? These things are negotiated. The lawyer had a good case and could win the $20 million and sometimes Judges add more punitive fines. They settled at $10 million. Deal with it.

    Was any of this secret? NO! It is all public knowledge. Dumbass!
    Im sorry your heads so far up your *** but when the govt decided to pay khadr they purposely sped up the payment so the pending law suit against khadr wouldnt get any of it. None of this was public. The information being released were all leaks.

    Thats pretty messed up. Khadr has a major judgment against him from court. I assume you think khadr will be paying some of it?

    How long till khadrs really really bad family takes the money from him? You know, the same guys everyone blames and uses as the excuse?
    I kind of agree with Sgt. Spears on this by paying Khadr the $10 million basically means Canada is aiding and abetting terrorism.


    Isn't there a Canadian Law that states if you support terrorism abroad and are caught you lose your passport and Canadian Citizenship?

    The other man he injured was interviewed, he was there, unlike any of us. I heard what he said, Khadr is lucky to be alive and live in Canada. Why isn't that enough for him? Why add 10 million. I was happy to see PM Harper come back at the liberals for this, because they did everything in secret, then JT, like the coward he is, leaves the country!

  18. #218

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    Definition of bigot. : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
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  19. #219

    Default Trudeau skips the theme socks for his scheming Khadr apology

    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-07-2017 at 10:14 AM.

  20. #220

    Default Khadr apology likely to unite Canadians, but not how Liberals hoped

    Not much uniting on this thread so far, but I think regular Canadians who aren't hard core left wingers understand the terrible precedent just handing over such a huge sum of cash without fighting till the end, sets.
    This was a clear choice by Justin Trudeau. Stephen Harper would have litigated until Satan was skating to work. Even if it cost millions more, it would have negated the need to apologize.

    ...

    On Friday evening, Harper responded with a terse statement on Facebook:

    “The government today attempted to lay blame elsewhere for their decision to conclude a secret deal with Omar Khadr. The decision to enter into this deal is theirs, and theirs alone, and it is simply wrong. Canadians deserve better than this. Today my thoughts are with Tabitha Speer and the families of all Canadian and allied soldiers who paid the ultimate price fighting to protect us.”

    The apology and settlement hand the Conservatives a gift in their argument that the pendulum of justice rewards perpetrators and penalizes the rights of victims.
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john...d-fd8264ea1495
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-07-2017 at 10:40 AM.

  21. #221

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    weird no one wants to answer my question. If khadr's family is so bad that their to blame for khadrs actions how long until they get their hands on his money? Or will khadr just hand it over willingly?

  22. #222

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    There are almost no hard-core left wingers in Canada.

    And Canadians -- human beings of all political stripes -- understand that the breakdown of the rule of law in what happened to Khadr is the worst precedent of all, and 50 cents per tax-paying citizen is the cheapest of all prices to pay to make it somewhat papered-over.

    The commentary in the national media has been quite eye-opening for me personally. People I had really always thought of as being authoritarian rightists, such as Jonathan Kay, and soft hipsta neocons, such as Konrad Yakabuski, have shown they possess the humanity necessary to recognize that the Khadr story is least of all about the firefight and the death of the American medic, but most of all about how crimes are to be judged, and the condemned treated, in human society.

    What is left? Pure degenerate filthy Nazism. Much of it anonymous and as always supported by the over-tired, over-stressed, under-thinking unwashed masses who are too stressed out to think beyond their wretched little personal lives, and who keep themselves sane by whining about everything that happens outside their narrow little field of vision. But nothing can be done about that. What is worse is jowly smooth-cheeked well-waist-padded politicians, moguls and paid-whore commentators doing their rabble-rousing. And let's not kid ourselves. Pure Nazism is what this is about, not merely in words but in deeds. Racial/religious hatred gone political, followed by concentration camps, torture, kangaroo courts, and execution by interrogation.

    The three or four anonymous cowards on here who support the Nazism are almost certainly no more than the first category: unwashed rabble. But they are part of the shi- that has always kept the Nazi shi- rolling.

    ---

    As regards Khadr's surviving family: they are not "so bad" until they have done something they can be charged with and convicted for. In the case that happens, anything short of a proper conviction, all the rules having been followed and all howling disregarded, will only diminish us as a society. Until that happens, there is nothing worth talking about.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 08-07-2017 at 11:35 AM.

  23. #223

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    One last point, about the politics of it all.

    I voted for the Liberals last election, but I am very uncomfortable with several of their policies, and I intensely dislike what several of Trudeau's most senior ministers, especially Freeland and Sajjan, have stood for in public. Nonetheless, on this one thing, Trudeau did what is right, and showed the necessary amount of political enthusiasm about it: none.

    To bunch him in with the demagogy of Scheer is unconscionable.

    Too many of the posts above excoriating "all politicians" have done just that. To do so is a specious example of self-serving egotism.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I enjoy Rex, thanks for the link.
    I wouldn't want this blood money, something I call karma who can be a right b!tch, will likely correct any wrongs imho!

  25. #225

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    ^agreed, if he wasn't already one of Canadians most hated people, without question he is now. The only positive I can think of, is at least Khadr didn't ask for 100 million in his lawsuit, as Trudeau would have given 50 million then to settle it ...
    Last edited by moahunter; 08-07-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the positive I can think of, is at least Khadr didn't ask for 100 million in his lawsuit, as Trudeau would have given 50 million then to settle it ...
    I agree. It's not sitting well with a lot of people. My girlfriend is a die hard liberal, and something about this deal, the way it was done, has angered her. Tread lightly sunny ways,, tread lightly!

  27. #227

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    Let's just say if Kadhr got his day in court in front of a jury. They look at the facts of the fight in Afghanistan and find him not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt that he threw the grenade that killed Medic Speer.
    The court case would find out that the original report on the fight was tampered with and Kadhr's name entered in at a later date, no one knows who did this.
    The court would also find out that another U S soldier that was there said Kahdr could not have thrown the grenade as Kahdr was under a pile of rubble having been seriously hurt. He will also say there was smoke and debris flying and grenades being thrown all over and from terrorists and soldiers. Jury will find that Kahdr was forced to make a plea bargain under extreme duress. (He's not the first person to make a false confession).
    Well with the government(s) of the time screwing this up so badly Kahdr never got the chance and the public never got to know how it would have played out.
    Kahdr was put in Guantanamo Bay while Chrietian was in charge, the liberals did nothing. Nothing was done during the Harper years except he got to come back to Canada. Libs/Cons are both responsible for the outcome of this. Whatever political game they were playing brought this case to this point. We will never know how a jury would have found this case because the accused never got the right to due process. Now, after the fact, it's in the court of public opinion.

    And yes, even terrorists are entitled to their day in court. As someone mentioned before, we are supposed to be better than countries without any human rights at all. If we did not have human rights we would be Irag/North Korean/Afghanistan etc.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  28. #228

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    Okay, I'm ******* sick of the idiocy and done with writing a diatribe every single time a friend posts about how they're upset that Trudeau is giving a terrorist $10m. You people are.... wilfully ignorant and hypocritical. Here's why. (And I thoroughly suggest reading the entire post. If you know me, you know I'm neither stupid, nor an apologist. I am pure ******* science, and this post is such. Read it before making an *** of yourself by posting about how we just gave a terrorist money).



    The story (the facts we know).
    * Canadian born Khadr was taken to Afghanistan at age 9, by his father. We don't know if he wanted to go, and we don't know why they went. There has been zero evidence put forth to suggest the trip had anything to do with terrorism. Regardless, as he was only 9, he had no choice in the matter.
    * Khadr, aged 15, was found in critical condition following a firefight. The mission debrief report filed by the US troops stated that a middle aged man threw a grenade, which killed one US soldier. The grenadier was shot in the head and confirmed killed.
    * Khadr was taken to Guantanamo Bay prison. No charges were filed against him at that time.
    * Several years later, formal charges were filed. These charges were technically not even charges of war crimes, as if they were true, Khadr would be considered an enemy combatant during a time of war, and thus everything he was accused of doing, was legal under rules of engagement. He was denied access to a lawyer at this point and no trial date was set. He was held in detention and tortured for nearly 10 years.
    * Nearly a decade later, an addendum to the original mission debrief was submitted, which identified the grenadier as Khadr by name. The original report was not rescinded. No one knows who made the addendum. No US personnel present during the firefight confirms the addendum. (at least I've not been able to find any).
    * A week later, Khadr is offered a plea deal. The terms of the deal were to admit guilt to all charges and serve a few more years in a Canadian prison, or refuse to admit guilt and be denied trial indefinitely. (the latter portion is not confirmed by the US government, but let's be realistic here...)
    * Khadr takes the plea deal, is transferred to Canada.
    * Khadr sues the Canadian government for their involvement in his illegal detention, torture, and lack of a trial.
    All of the above is true as far as anyone knows. That is the official story, from both the Canadian and US governments. They have said straight out that Khadr would not be offered a trial unless he took the plea deal. Just let that sink in for a moment.


    Now let me ask you a question.
    As a Canadian, what do you stand for? Do you believe that you, as a Canadian, have the right to be presumed innocent, until proven guilty, as well as the right to a fair and quick trial? I know this is hard for many of you to consider without jumping to "oh, but he's a terrorist, so **** him, he's a traitor and doesn't deserve anything", but we'll get to that in a minute. Seriously consider this. Do you believe you have, as a Canadian, the inalienable right to everything laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?


    If you do, but still think Khadr does not, because he is a terrorist, let me ask you; "How do you know he is guilty?" There was no trial for 10 years, and he was only offered a trial on the condition that he plead guilty. How do we, as Canadians, determine guilt? Have you read and understood the Charter of Rights and Freedoms? It's entire purpose is precisely to ensure that what happened to Khadr, is not allowed to happen. Period.

    Now I know many of you still can't get past the "but he's a traitor so he doesn't deserve a trial" even though neither you, nor me, nor the US or Canadian government were able to provide ANY evidence whatsoever, of his guilt (no evidence was submitted during his trial, presumably because none exists), but that doesn't matter. Let me explain the problem to you.


    You are worried that terrorists are trying to take away your freedoms as a Canadian right? They're trying to force their way of life upon us and we as Canadians, won't stand for that right?
    Do you see where I'm going here? Presuming Khadr's guilt, with no evidence and without trial, is precisely what the terrorists want to do to Canada. Isn't that your concern? Does it not strike you then, that by saying that Khadr doesn't deserve a fair trial because he is a terrorist, with absolutely no evidence, nor a trial to prove the charges, that you are doing precisely what you are worried the terrorists are trying to do do us? A presumption of guilt, no trial, a decade of detention and torture. Is that not EXACTLY what you are worried terrorists are trying to do to us?


    At this point, I don't think any of us should even be concerned about Khadrs innocence or guilt. He is inconsequential at this point. The REAL concern for all Canadians, is that our government denied a Canadian citizen his inalienable rights, guaranteed to him under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They did EXACTLY what you are worried the terrorists are trying to do. If Khadr was guilty, a trial probably would have proven such, so why was he denied a trial?


    For your information, the Canadian government did not simply offer up an apology and $10m for no reason. They were sued. Khadr filed a civil suit with the supreme court of Canada, and that court found in favour of Khadr, in that the Canadian government was in breach of Canadian and International law. Over half the money awarded will be going toward legal fees.


    Think about it this way. Your government, was just successfully sued for war crimes. Crimes they committed not only against Khadr, but against the entire Canadian public. They assured us that we would all be given a fair trial, but now we know that is not true. They assured us that we will always be presumed innocent until proven guilty. We know that is not true. They took your money, money which could have been spent on building half a hospital or something, and spent it instead, on committing war crimes, and crimes directly against the Charter for which our country stands.


    Now I don't know if Khadr is innocent or guilty and I don't know if that money will end up right back in the middle east, but before you get upset about that, I want you to consider this: Had the Canadian government offered Khadr a fair trial, regardless of his guilt, there would have been no civil suit and we'd have $10.5m more Canadian Pesos to spend on Moose shirts, or maple syrup flavoured hockey sticks.
    All they had to do, was abide by our own legal doctrine, and this whole mess would have never happened.

    In summation:
    If you believe Khadr did not deserve a fair and quick trial, you are not Canadian. You do not stand for what Canada stands for. You are saying very clearly, that you don't care about evidence, treating people (who we presume are innocent until proven guilty) with basic decency, or your own or anyone else's right to a fair trial. You are, quite literally, openly supporting about half of Sharia law. You fuckwits.

    Ben Feral Selinger

    A great read if you get the time.
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

  29. #229

    Default

    ^ I posted that earlier

  30. #230

    Default

    I though you wrote it Medwards...

    I thought you were brilliant.

    You still are but just less so... snicker
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    A great read if you get the time.
    It's just so much easier to just exist in a bubble and wallow in a stew of indignant anger and ignorance.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  32. #232

    Default Trudeau should be charged with treasoon - special forces soldier

    Its easy to live in a Liberal bubble and think that if you try to free every Canadian everywhere in the world who has done something bad, they wil turn into wonderful people - strange how the real world isn't like that - former Liberal government lobbied on the dad's behalf to get him out of a Pakistani jail - then he thanks us by taking the family to Afghanistan to fight us:

    Ironies, strange twists and hypocrisy, by the Liberals, abound in Khadr’s case.

    For example, it might never have happened had not then Liberal prime minister Jean Chretien asked Pakistan prime minister Benazair Bhutto in 1996 for guarantees that Omar Khadr’s father, Ahmed Said Khadr, would be treated fairly. Khadr was released from prison shortly after Chretien’s intervention.

    At the time, the elder Khadr, later identified as a key lieutenant of Osama bin Laden, who would die in a firefight with Pakistani security officers in 2003, was under arrest in Pakistan in connection with the bombing of the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad.

    After being freed, the elder Khadr briefly came back to Canada, then returned to Pakistan with his family, where his sons received weapons training with the Taliban and bin Laden.Ironies, strange twists and hypocrisy, by the Liberals, abound in Khadr’s case.

    For example, it might never have happened had not then Liberal prime minister Jean Chretien asked Pakistan prime minister Benazair Bhutto in 1996 for guarantees that Omar Khadr’s father, Ahmed Said Khadr, would be treated fairly. Khadr was released from prison shortly after Chretien’s intervention.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/05...e-map-on-khadr

    I guess that's "good behavior" of a government per our Supreme Court - lobby to get Canadian terrorists out of foreign jails? This family lived a wealthy lifestyle, Omar was well educated and spoke multiple languages (he remains well spoken and charming, just like terrorist fundraisers are), he was no child soldier brought up in a battlefield, he grew up with sound education then chose to kill western soldiers. In fairness to Chretien maybe he realized the mistake which is perhaps why CSIS agents went and interviewed Omar rather than try to free another member of this family to go try to kill our troops again? A special forces soldier, who fought alongside the Edmonton based Princess Patricia Light Infantry, speaks out (emphasis added):

    “Is nobody concerned about where that money could end up? I mean, it’s well-documented that Omar Khadr’s father was a chief fundraiser for Osama Bin Laden,” he said. “I hate to be the one to ask but is anybody going to keep tabs on Omar’s movements, now that he has this money? Is anybody going to track where that money is hidden?”

    His questions are rhetorical, but legitimate.

    “The fact is Chris Speer and myself were fighting with Canadians in Afghanistan. We were alongside the PPCLI (Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry). There was a Canadian flag flying along with the American flag at our base there, so it’s quite a thing that now Canada is giving millions to a guy who would attack a compound where Canadians were serving.”

    Canada, he predicts, will regret this dark deal.

    “As a general rule, and in every other case that I have ever heard of, you keep money out of the hands of people who build bombs or would throw hand grenades at our soldiers,” said Morris.

    The fact that Canada didn’t, he said, raises red flags for him.

    I don’t see this as anything but treason,” said Morris. “It’s something a traitor would do. As far as I am concerned, Prime Minister Trudeau should be charged.”

    If he or Speer had done anything similar to what the PM did, he said, they certainly would be.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/08...treason-morris
    Last edited by moahunter; 09-07-2017 at 05:13 AM.

  33. #233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  34. #234
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Default

    Shouldn't be too long and the Khadr book will be out making him tens of millions more.

  35. #235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Its easy to live in a Liberal bubble and think that if you try to free every Canadian everywhere in the world who has done something bad, they wil turn into wonderful people - strange how the real world isn't like that - former Liberal government lobbied on the dad's behalf to get him out of a Pakistani jail - then he thanks us by taking the family to Afghanistan to fight us:

    Ironies, strange twists and hypocrisy, by the Liberals, abound in Khadr’s case.

    For example, it might never have happened had not then Liberal prime minister Jean Chretien asked Pakistan prime minister Benazair Bhutto in 1996 for guarantees that Omar Khadr’s father, Ahmed Said Khadr, would be treated fairly. Khadr was released from prison shortly after Chretien’s intervention.

    At the time, the elder Khadr, later identified as a key lieutenant of Osama bin Laden, who would die in a firefight with Pakistani security officers in 2003, was under arrest in Pakistan in connection with the bombing of the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad.

    After being freed, the elder Khadr briefly came back to Canada, then returned to Pakistan with his family, where his sons received weapons training with the Taliban and bin Laden.Ironies, strange twists and hypocrisy, by the Liberals, abound in Khadr’s case.

    For example, it might never have happened had not then Liberal prime minister Jean Chretien asked Pakistan prime minister Benazair Bhutto in 1996 for guarantees that Omar Khadr’s father, Ahmed Said Khadr, would be treated fairly. Khadr was released from prison shortly after Chretien’s intervention.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/05...e-map-on-khadr

    I guess that's "good behavior" of a government per our Supreme Court - lobby to get Canadian terrorists out of foreign jails? This family lived a wealthy lifestyle, Omar was well educated and spoke multiple languages (he remains well spoken and charming, just like terrorist fundraisers are), he was no child soldier brought up in a battlefield, he grew up with sound education then chose to kill western soldiers. In fairness to Chretien maybe he realized the mistake which is perhaps why CSIS agents went and interviewed Omar rather than try to free another member of this family to go try to kill our troops again? A special forces soldier, who fought alongside the Edmonton based Princess Patricia Light Infantry, speaks out (emphasis added):

    “Is nobody concerned about where that money could end up? I mean, it’s well-documented that Omar Khadr’s father was a chief fundraiser for Osama Bin Laden,” he said. “I hate to be the one to ask but is anybody going to keep tabs on Omar’s movements, now that he has this money? Is anybody going to track where that money is hidden?”

    His questions are rhetorical, but legitimate.

    “The fact is Chris Speer and myself were fighting with Canadians in Afghanistan. We were alongside the PPCLI (Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry). There was a Canadian flag flying along with the American flag at our base there, so it’s quite a thing that now Canada is giving millions to a guy who would attack a compound where Canadians were serving.”

    Canada, he predicts, will regret this dark deal.

    “As a general rule, and in every other case that I have ever heard of, you keep money out of the hands of people who build bombs or would throw hand grenades at our soldiers,” said Morris.

    The fact that Canada didn’t, he said, raises red flags for him.

    I don’t see this as anything but treason,” said Morris. “It’s something a traitor would do. As far as I am concerned, Prime Minister Trudeau should be charged.”

    If he or Speer had done anything similar to what the PM did, he said, they certainly would be.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/08...treason-morris
    Morris responds to what he considers an act of treason by accusing the PM of a sovereign nation of treason? It sounds like Layne Morrison is bent. He states "Should have let him (Khadr) die like a dog" and followed by "we did our job honorably" and yet its revealing that Morrison responds to the enemy as a dog while believing that they performed their actions honorably. As we've seen a lot of other chains of command who thought they were on the "right side" have dishonored their respective flags with their actions. But I clearly see how it gets incubated by such attitudes.

    I understand Morris was blinded in one eye in the skirmish. But he's been blinded in other ways.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-07-2017 at 07:48 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  36. #236
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris

  37. #237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Shouldn't be too long and the Khadr book will be out making him tens of millions more.
    What's wrong with that? Embracing capitalism, creating jobs, paying taxes, etc. Plus those offended by the award surely wouldn't buy the book, so what would they care.

  38. #238

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Harper would have had an easier time in the media. He'd be portrayed from the start as being forced into it and having no choice.

    Now, the idea that people would think differently if it were their own son killed... I have to agree.

  39. #239

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Well, I didn't approve of actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place and I don't subscribe that our way of life and Canadian or US society was defended by the same. I look at these more as acts of escalation, aggression and allegiance committed on foreign soil.

    So you can take your self righteous attitude about whether I've faced terrorists and stick it. My son would not have been so deluded as to be committed to such a conflict.

    Ever think that if these soldiers weren't there this all wouldn't have occurred? The only thing these militaristic actions furthered is decades more strife and attacks against the Western world.

    No I don't think the media is being easy on JT they are opportunistically carving him on this.

    On this issue JT is the first PM in decades that has sided with the system of Law on this file and didn't try to make it go away. That's courage worth noting. As I stated earlier in the thread one of the worst things about NA politics is how its much more about political partisan and party line decisions than taking leadership and administering justice. The Trudeau administration took, and showed leadership here on what was sure to be a mess. They deserve my credit.

    As per Layne its quite clear in this his opinion is deeply and severely biased, as it would be. I'm not going to pretend he's being a voice of reason here. But he shouldn't think that he is either. To the extent of accusing treason to our Canadian PM. I find that offensive actually and particularly coming from an American Sergeant. I think it clear in his phrasing Layne is entirely oblivious to his bias in this. Which is worth mentioning as his comments are getting so much press.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-07-2017 at 07:53 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  40. #240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Well, I didn't approve of actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place and I don't subscribe that our way of life and Canadian or US society was defended by the same. I look at these more as acts of escalation, aggression and allegiance committed on foreign soil.

    So you can take your self righteous attitude about whether I've faced terrorists and stick it. My son would not have been so deluded as to be committed to such a conflict.

    Ever think that if these soldiers weren't there this all wouldn't have occurred? The only thing these militaristic actions furthered is decades more strife and attacks against the Western world.

    No I don't think the media is being easy on JT they are opportunistically carving him on this.

    On this issue JT is the first PM in decades that has sided with the system of Law on this file and didn't try to make it go away. That's courage worth noting. As I stated earlier in the thread one of the worst things about NA politics is how its much more about political partisan and party line decisions than taking leadership and administering justice. The Trudeau administration took, and showed leadership here on what was sure to be a mess. They deserve my credit.
    Good points. We gave some politicians stating that they would never have payed this. That's interesting because they appear to be willing to escalate costs in order to kick the can down the road based on their own personal views of constitutional rights or lack of them.

    My own father once said something to the effect that it was crazy to entrench the Bill of Rights in our Constitution because it would lead to all kinds of unintended consequences and consequences that the majority would never want and it wouldn't allow society to evolve as it might otherwise.
    Last edited by KC; 09-07-2017 at 07:57 AM.

  41. #241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Harper would have had an easier time in the media. He'd be portrayed from the start as being forced into it and having no choice.

    Now, the idea that people would think differently if it were their own son killed... I have to agree.
    If my son was fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan I would take it as a failure of everything I'd philosophically, ethically, morally, tried to teach him. I would take it as outright refutation.

    Now not everybody feels that way, and many continue to believe in "fighting for your country" and defending the same excepting that the last military conflict Canada was involved in where that was arguable the case was WW II.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  42. #242

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Harper would have had an easier time in the media. He'd be portrayed from the start as being forced into it and having no choice.

    Now, the idea that people would think differently if it were their own son killed... I have to agree.
    If my son was fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan I would take it as a failure of everything I'd philosophically, ethically, morally, tried to teach him. I would take it as outright refutation.

    Now not everybody feels that way, and many continue to believe in "fighting for your country" and defending the same excepting that the last military conflict Canada was involved in where that was arguable the case was WW II.
    A multitude of factors: small conflicts can escalate, being trained is likelier better for survivability than being untrained, waiting for a conflict to escalate to the point of it being a clear danger to Canada and then enlisting or being drafted presents a lot of risks, seniority in the military may have useful benefits...


    Omar Kahdr was a son as well. I know that there is a spectrum of degrees of love or desire to protect ones children but generally people want them to survive and aren't keen to see them engage in war unless there are, in their minds, larger issues. Hence both sides are in a very similar situation of their own son seeking military victory through force over someone else's son and almost certainly via deadly force. (To many parents, it's ok if their children kill people.)

    In Afghanistan it was likely in many ways a spiritual call Kadars (and many past national attacks by USSR etc and a pending/active attack) that got them involved but for the Americans it was a direct attack on US soil that called on US soldiers to respond.

    To the Kahdrs placing one's religion, belief / faith in God over their country caused them to justify fighting Canada's allies. (And Canada?)
    Last edited by KC; 09-07-2017 at 08:39 AM.

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Well, I didn't approve of actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place and I don't subscribe that our way of life and Canadian or US society was defended by the same. I look at these more as acts of escalation, aggression and allegiance committed on foreign soil.

    So you can take your self righteous attitude about whether I've faced terrorists and stick it. My son would not have been so deluded as to be committed to such a conflict.

    Ever think that if these soldiers weren't there this all wouldn't have occurred? The only thing these militaristic actions furthered is decades more strife and attacks against the Western world.

    No I don't think the media is being easy on JT they are opportunistically carving him on this.

    On this issue JT is the first PM in decades that has sided with the system of Law on this file and didn't try to make it go away. That's courage worth noting. As I stated earlier in the thread one of the worst things about NA politics is how its much more about political partisan and party line decisions than taking leadership and administering justice. The Trudeau administration took, and showed leadership here on what was sure to be a mess. They deserve my credit.

    As per Layne its quite clear in this his opinion is deeply and severely biased, as it would be. I'm not going to pretend he's being a voice of reason here. But he shouldn't think that he is either. To the extent of accusing treason to our Canadian PM. I find that offensive actually and particularly coming from an American Sergeant. I think it clear in his phrasing Layne is entirely oblivious to his bias in this. Which is worth mentioning as his comments are getting so much press.

    How deluded are you? Men gave up their lives, so we could have the life we do. Your son in my eyes would be a coward, so stick that!

  44. #244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Well, I didn't approve of actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place and I don't subscribe that our way of life and Canadian or US society was defended by the same. I look at these more as acts of escalation, aggression and allegiance committed on foreign soil.

    So you can take your self righteous attitude about whether I've faced terrorists and stick it. My son would not have been so deluded as to be committed to such a conflict.

    Ever think that if these soldiers weren't there this all wouldn't have occurred? The only thing these militaristic actions furthered is decades more strife and attacks against the Western world.

    No I don't think the media is being easy on JT they are opportunistically carving him on this.

    On this issue JT is the first PM in decades that has sided with the system of Law on this file and didn't try to make it go away. That's courage worth noting. As I stated earlier in the thread one of the worst things about NA politics is how its much more about political partisan and party line decisions than taking leadership and administering justice. The Trudeau administration took, and showed leadership here on what was sure to be a mess. They deserve my credit.

    As per Layne its quite clear in this his opinion is deeply and severely biased, as it would be. I'm not going to pretend he's being a voice of reason here. But he shouldn't think that he is either. To the extent of accusing treason to our Canadian PM. I find that offensive actually and particularly coming from an American Sergeant. I think it clear in his phrasing Layne is entirely oblivious to his bias in this. Which is worth mentioning as his comments are getting so much press.

    How deluded are you? Men gave up their lives, so we could have the life we do. Your son in my eyes would be a coward, so stick that!
    Well, I've never enlisted. My father and family on both sides did in WWII and I believe in WWI as well, but not mother. A couple older great aunts did. Our family has suffered deaths in war.

    However I can't call someone else a coward without calling myself a coward because I've never enlisted to protect our way of life - but I might if I deemed it worthy of risking my life. Also, our family that enlisted did so at various times so their assessment of the war and their need to enlist and risk their lives for a greater cause was likely affected by various factors.

    The real question is: do you believe that every war Canada gets involved in, is necessary to protect our way of life? If so, you believe our politicians are always right or that once involved there is no choice as by default it is protecting our way of life.
    Last edited by KC; 09-07-2017 at 08:52 AM.

  45. #245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Well, I didn't approve of actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place and I don't subscribe that our way of life and Canadian or US society was defended by the same. I look at these more as acts of escalation, aggression and allegiance committed on foreign soil.

    So you can take your self righteous attitude about whether I've faced terrorists and stick it. My son would not have been so deluded as to be committed to such a conflict.

    Ever think that if these soldiers weren't there this all wouldn't have occurred? The only thing these militaristic actions furthered is decades more strife and attacks against the Western world.

    No I don't think the media is being easy on JT they are opportunistically carving him on this.

    On this issue JT is the first PM in decades that has sided with the system of Law on this file and didn't try to make it go away. That's courage worth noting. As I stated earlier in the thread one of the worst things about NA politics is how its much more about political partisan and party line decisions than taking leadership and administering justice. The Trudeau administration took, and showed leadership here on what was sure to be a mess. They deserve my credit.

    As per Layne its quite clear in this his opinion is deeply and severely biased, as it would be. I'm not going to pretend he's being a voice of reason here. But he shouldn't think that he is either. To the extent of accusing treason to our Canadian PM. I find that offensive actually and particularly coming from an American Sergeant. I think it clear in his phrasing Layne is entirely oblivious to his bias in this. Which is worth mentioning as his comments are getting so much press.

    How deluded are you? Men gave up their lives, so we could have the life we do. Your son in my eyes would be a coward, so stick that!
    I'll take being deluded in your eyes over the waged military record of the US and its allies "defending freedom" since WW II

    Men did give up their lives in WW II to defend our way of life. I indicated that. But I don't think that the same has been the primary issue since then and it most certainly hasn't since the Cold War died out.

    But your rationale is sad. For how many centuries will "Men gave up their lives" be a reason to excuse further acts of aggression waged in other areas of the world? At what point does that stop being the rationale?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Well, I didn't approve of actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place and I don't subscribe that our way of life and Canadian or US society was defended by the same. I look at these more as acts of escalation, aggression and allegiance committed on foreign soil.

    So you can take your self righteous attitude about whether I've faced terrorists and stick it. My son would not have been so deluded as to be committed to such a conflict.

    Ever think that if these soldiers weren't there this all wouldn't have occurred? The only thing these militaristic actions furthered is decades more strife and attacks against the Western world.

    No I don't think the media is being easy on JT they are opportunistically carving him on this.

    On this issue JT is the first PM in decades that has sided with the system of Law on this file and didn't try to make it go away. That's courage worth noting. As I stated earlier in the thread one of the worst things about NA politics is how its much more about political partisan and party line decisions than taking leadership and administering justice. The Trudeau administration took, and showed leadership here on what was sure to be a mess. They deserve my credit.

    As per Layne its quite clear in this his opinion is deeply and severely biased, as it would be. I'm not going to pretend he's being a voice of reason here. But he shouldn't think that he is either. To the extent of accusing treason to our Canadian PM. I find that offensive actually and particularly coming from an American Sergeant. I think it clear in his phrasing Layne is entirely oblivious to his bias in this. Which is worth mentioning as his comments are getting so much press.

    How deluded are you? Men gave up their lives, so we could have the life we do. Your son in my eyes would be a coward, so stick that!
    I'll take being deluded in your eyes over the waged military record of the US and its allies "defending freedom" since WW II

    Men did give up their lives in WW II to defend our way of life. I indicated that. But I don't think that the same has been the primary issue since then and it most certainly hasn't since the Cold War died out.

    But your rationale is sad. For how many centuries will "Men gave up their lives" be a reason to excuse further acts of aggression waged in other areas of the world? At what point does that stop being the rationale?

    Well , I wont take deluded, but we come from different points of view. I had a father that served and a son, I see things from a different perspective than you( than you ever will)

    Have a good day, Replacement..

    ETA : I apologize if I got personal , its not what I wanted to do. I guess I felt like I was being talked down to, and going through PTSD with my daughter's fiance, who has always wanted to serve, everything hit a nerve. Again, I apologise
    Last edited by H.L.; 09-07-2017 at 12:41 PM.

  47. #247

    Default

    Age aside, possibly a good argument:


    COMMENTARY: Omar Khadr should be charged with treason, not given $10.5 million | Globalnews.ca

    Excerpt:

    "He should be treated as a defector and charged with treason — an offense without a statute of limitations, I’d remind Canada’s attorney general.

    Canada’s criminal code says anyone who “assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are” is guilty of high treason, which carries a life sentence.

    Canada’s mission in Afghanistan began in October of 2001, making the United States’ enemies our own as well. ..."

    "Anglin cited a claim from Khadr’s own former military lawyer, Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler, that no law or treaty prevents prosecution of minors for war crimes.

    Former United Nations human rights prosecutor David Crane agreed, saying it was a matter of prosecutorial discretion. ..."


    http://globalnews.ca/news/3580028/co...-10-5-million/
    Last edited by KC; 09-07-2017 at 08:57 PM.

  48. #248

    Default

    ^I think everyone forgets he was a minor when all this happened. I know some guys on here were like Benjamin Button when they were born but what is law for one age group in not law for another. I'm sure when people look at Kadhr now, a grown man, some how they are visualizing him as looking like that at 9 to 15 years of age. Unless he is also another Benjamin Button like a couple of the guys posting. Can you even charge a minor with treason?. A lot of empty rhetoric being spouted by the media and most of us on social media.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  49. #249

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    Khadr was taken out of Canada in 1996.

    Pompous windbags who think anyone may be capable of treason at that age are beneath contempt and are not to be considered human beings.

    They are Nazis. There are Nazis on this board. I am sick of it.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I think everyone forgets he was a minor when all this happened. I know some guys on here were like Benjamin Button when they were born but what is law for one age group in not law for another. I'm sure when people look at Kadhr now, a grown man, some how they are visualizing him as looking like that at 9 to 15 years of age. Unless he is also another Benjamin Button like a couple of the guys posting. Can you even charge a minor with treason?. A lot of empty rhetoric being spouted by the media and most of us on social media.
    I think he knew what he was doing, there lays the rub, some don't think he did, others like me think so. If need be, apologize, what's with the 10 million though, that is BS in my book...Arar, Khadr, who is next? Canada is pretty stupid sometimes..jmho

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Age aside, possibly a good argument:


    COMMENTARY: Omar Khadr should be charged with treason, not given $10.5 million | Globalnews.ca

    Excerpt:

    "He should be treated as a defector and charged with treason — an offense without a statute of limitations, I’d remind Canada’s attorney general.

    Canada’s criminal code says anyone who “assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are” is guilty of high treason, which carries a life sentence.

    Canada’s mission in Afghanistan began in October of 2001, making the United States’ enemies our own as well. ..."

    "Anglin cited a claim from Khadr’s own former military lawyer, Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler, that no law or treaty prevents prosecution of minors for war crimes.

    Former United Nations human rights prosecutor David Crane agreed, saying it was a matter of prosecutorial discretion. ..."


    http://globalnews.ca/news/3580028/co...-10-5-million/
    Boy lots of comments under that link, they sure dont agree with what Trudeau did..

  52. #252

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Trudeau has tried his best to hide the Liberal parties decision to make this killer Canada's newest multi-millionaire - per Rex Murphy:

    Why so coy, it must be asked? Why would Trudeau and his government, having done, as I am sure in later days they will emphatically insist, the right thing, the just thing, the principled thing, the Charter-compliant thing, be so shy of association with their own high righteousness?

    Most likely because there are so many questions about the Khadr absolution and jackpot he doesn’t want to answer or cannot.

    Why the outlandish amount? Does not repatriation, removal from the American system of justice, and a full apology from the entire government of Canada signify a generous correction by the Canadian state of what it perceives as the wrongs done to Khadr?

    What does he think is the response of Canadian soldiers, particularly veterans of Afghanistan, to this deal? I’d say they are furious. He owes the servicemen and women an accounting. If he is confident of the rightness of the award, the amount, the instant payment, and the state apology, he owes them his thinking on the matter. Not some jumbled vapourizing on process mumbled reluctantly over shamrocks and sock displays in Ireland.

    Finally, the judicial process. Trudeau was slippery when he talked of “anticipating” the “judicial process is coming to its conclusion.”*No such thing. He had amputated the judicial process when he made those remarks. Took it out of the courts and straight to lavish settlement. Premier Brad Wall made the point as well as any: “… there ought never be an offer to ‘settle.’ Some things are worth the legal fight … right to the end.”
    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-...c-219efac565df
    I like Rex Murphy but this is patently unfair. This was a very difficult inherited file for the Trudeau administration. One the past 2 PM's screwed over and resulting in this. Kudos to the Trudeau administration for dealing with this, getting it settled, and I don't expect them to be dancing about it. Its enough they have withheld justice when those that walked ahead of them refused to. On this issue the criticism is wrong. There was no response to this settlement that was going to be palatable. But it was going to be necessary. I'm a huge critic of JT and yet I felt his administration has dealt with this one responsibly. This was going to be a mess for any PM in office that did settle this suit.
    Yet look how easy MSM is on JT, had PM Harper done the very same thing', I would be just as disgusted and the media would have fed on this for months! It would lead the nightly news, every night. I thought , what Morris said was right, and he had every right to say it. How many times have you stood and faced terrorists? I guess its easy to put him down, behind an electric device and not one that causes harm, and or death.Had this been your son Khadr killed, perhaps you'd be thinking differently right now.

    http://m.torontosun.com/2017/07/08/t...treason-morris
    Well, I didn't approve of actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the first place and I don't subscribe that our way of life and Canadian or US society was defended by the same. I look at these more as acts of escalation, aggression and allegiance committed on foreign soil.

    So you can take your self righteous attitude about whether I've faced terrorists and stick it. My son would not have been so deluded as to be committed to such a conflict.

    Ever think that if these soldiers weren't there this all wouldn't have occurred? The only thing these militaristic actions furthered is decades more strife and attacks against the Western world.

    No I don't think the media is being easy on JT they are opportunistically carving him on this.

    On this issue JT is the first PM in decades that has sided with the system of Law on this file and didn't try to make it go away. That's courage worth noting. As I stated earlier in the thread one of the worst things about NA politics is how its much more about political partisan and party line decisions than taking leadership and administering justice. The Trudeau administration took, and showed leadership here on what was sure to be a mess. They deserve my credit.

    As per Layne its quite clear in this his opinion is deeply and severely biased, as it would be. I'm not going to pretend he's being a voice of reason here. But he shouldn't think that he is either. To the extent of accusing treason to our Canadian PM. I find that offensive actually and particularly coming from an American Sergeant. I think it clear in his phrasing Layne is entirely oblivious to his bias in this. Which is worth mentioning as his comments are getting so much press.

    How deluded are you? Men gave up their lives, so we could have the life we do. Your son in my eyes would be a coward, so stick that!
    I'll take being deluded in your eyes over the waged military record of the US and its allies "defending freedom" since WW II

    Men did give up their lives in WW II to defend our way of life. I indicated that. But I don't think that the same has been the primary issue since then and it most certainly hasn't since the Cold War died out.

    But your rationale is sad. For how many centuries will "Men gave up their lives" be a reason to excuse further acts of aggression waged in other areas of the world? At what point does that stop being the rationale?

    Well , I wont take deluded, but we come from different points of view. I had a father that served and a son, I see things from a different perspective than you( than you ever will)

    Have a good day, Replacement..

    ETA : I apologize if I got personal , its not what I wanted to do. I guess I felt like I was being talked down to, and going through PTSD with my daughter's fiance, who has always wanted to serve, everything hit a nerve. Again, I apologise
    No worries and no offence taken. I was playfully stating the stick it comment. Just giving the gears back and forth. Don't worry about the exchange. Sorry if I responded in kind. These can be contentious issues but the ability to be civil, and even apologize probably puts you beyond the curve here.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #253

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I think everyone forgets he was a minor when all this happened. I know some guys on here were like Benjamin Button when they were born but what is law for one age group in not law for another. I'm sure when people look at Kadhr now, a grown man, some how they are visualizing him as looking like that at 9 to 15 years of age. Unless he is also another Benjamin Button like a couple of the guys posting. Can you even charge a minor with treason?. A lot of empty rhetoric being spouted by the media and most of us on social media.
    This nails it. The whole time I'm thinking this is a young offender. With Canada having specialized legislation and treatment and sentence for young offenders and with what occurred to Khadr being beyond the pale.

    One thing that doesn't get considered is this was during a firefight, a very active one where Khadr is probably seeing acquaintances, even loved ones, maybe even family under attack or gunned down. So he lobbed a hand grenade or improvised device DURING a firefight. War is hell. That's about it.

    I think to individually target one persons actions in the midst of acts during engaged battle is odd at best. But to target, specifically, a 15yr old, and a Canadian resident at that, takes the cake. This was loaded from the start.

    Khadr was also seriously injured. Its not like he was unscathed either. Then or ever since. I wonder how well some of his detractors would have dealt with the years of hell after that he was made to endure. That this person is even seemingly normal after all that is something in itself.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-07-2017 at 10:00 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  54. #254

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    Young Offenders Act/Youth Criminal Justice Act Canada were written up for a reason. Now when it comes to war I'm sure there are 'Acts" for minors caught up in it. At least in civilized countries. War is not only hell but it sure plays by it's own set of rules. Kahdr is in a fire fight with U S soldiers, a medic gets killed and yet U S soldiers rescue a badly injured Kadhr stitch him up until he's better then take him as a prisoner of war. Why, because the soldiers and medics were told to do that. They maybe don't like to but they do.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  55. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I think everyone forgets he was a minor when all this happened. I know some guys on here were like Benjamin Button when they were born but what is law for one age group in not law for another. I'm sure when people look at Kadhr now, a grown man, some how they are visualizing him as looking like that at 9 to 15 years of age. Unless he is also another Benjamin Button like a couple of the guys posting. Can you even charge a minor with treason?. A lot of empty rhetoric being spouted by the media and most of us on social media.
    I think he knew what he was doing, there lays the rub, some don't think he did, others like me think so. If need be, apologize, what's with the 10 million though, that is BS in my book...Arar, Khadr, who is next? Canada is pretty stupid sometimes..jmho
    If you put it in another content.
    Say someone you knew took a minor to a country where there were no human rights. Let's say the minor decides to go 'clubbing'. The bouncers at the door don't care so let him in the club. Midnight the club closes and every one spills out to the street. A fight starts with 20-30 people and he somehow gets caught up in it. He gets arrested and thrown in jail. He swears he had nothing to do with it he just got caught up in the middle of it. They don't believe him. His guardian calls the Canadian Embassy and explains what happened, how he was caught up in a fight but did not kill anyone. The Canadian Embassy hums, haws but gives no indication of helping. Months later the kid is still in jail with no trial date in site. This goes on for months then years. Canadian Embassy cant get it's chit together and the kid is suffering all kinds of abuse at the hands of guards and other prisoners. The kid is a Canadian Citizen and yet his Canadian Human Rights are not even on the governments to do list. Then after years of languishing in a foreign jail some government hack approaches him and tells him if you say you killed that person out side the night club you can go home. The kid said but I did not kill anyone, I may have been carrying a knife but I did not kill anyone. This goes on for a couple more years and the kid is wasting away. He finally gives up and just wants out so he pleads guilty just to get home. He gets home and is put in a Canadian jail as that was part of the plea bargain. A lawyer finally picks up his cause and fights to get him out of jail. The lawyer goes to the Supreme Court and explains how a Canadian abroad did not have any representation from the very Government that was supposed to treat him fairly. He was held illegally, given no legal council, the government knew but did nothing. Now, one might say that his freedom is worth more than money but the Supreme Court thought that it was worth $10 million. That's why we should never chip away at any of our rights as who know, anyone of us or anyone we know might need them some day.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  56. #256

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    And as far as I know, JT was not on the bench of the Supreme Court
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-07-2017 at 11:44 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  57. #257
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I think everyone forgets he was a minor when all this happened. I know some guys on here were like Benjamin Button when they were born but what is law for one age group in not law for another. I'm sure when people look at Kadhr now, a grown man, some how they are visualizing him as looking like that at 9 to 15 years of age. Unless he is also another Benjamin Button like a couple of the guys posting. Can you even charge a minor with treason?. A lot of empty rhetoric being spouted by the media and most of us on social media.
    I think he knew what he was doing, there lays the rub, some don't think he did, others like me think so. If need be, apologize, what's with the 10 million though, that is BS in my book...Arar, Khadr, who is next? Canada is pretty stupid sometimes..jmho
    If you put it in another content.
    Say someone you knew took a minor to a country where there were no human rights. Let's say the minor decides to go 'clubbing'. The bouncers at the door don't care so let him in the club. Midnight the club closes and every one spills out to the street. A fight starts with 20-30 people and he somehow gets caught up in it. He gets arrested and thrown in jail. He swears he had nothing to do with it he just got caught up in the middle of it. They don't believe him. His guardian calls the Canadian Embassy and explains what happened, how he was caught up in a fight but did not kill anyone. The Canadian Embassy hums, haws but gives no indication of helping. Months later the kid is still in jail with no trial date in site. This goes on for months then years. Canadian Embassy cant get it's chit together and the kid is suffering all kinds of abuse at the hands of guards and other prisoners. The kid is a Canadian Citizen and yet his Canadian Human Rights are not even on the governments to do list. Then after years of languishing in a foreign jail some government hack approaches him and tells him if you say you killed that person out side the night club you can go home. The kid said but I did not kill anyone, I may have been carrying a knife but I did not kill anyone. This goes on for a couple more years and the kid is wasting away. He finally gives up and just wants out so he pleads guilty just to get home. He gets home and is put in a Canadian jail as that was part of the plea bargain. A lawyer finally picks up his cause and fights to get him out of jail. The lawyer goes to the Supreme Court and explains how a Canadian abroad did not have any representation from the very Government that was supposed to treat him fairly. He was held illegally, given no legal council, the government knew but did nothing. Now, one might say that his freedom is worth more than money but the Supreme Court thought that it was worth $10 million. That's why we should never chip away at any of our rights as who know, anyone of us or anyone we know might need them some day.
    The kid you talked about, is there a video of him having a practice run, or in the OK case, making bombs? Do you not think he new what a bomb would do at that age? I think he did Gemini. Do I fault his ugly family, and his even nastier father, yes and I have said I do. But the fact remains, the guy who lost an eye and lived, was a witness to this wasn't he? I'll chip away if my tax dollars go to him, all the time. I think its a spit in the face to all our men that are there, and I don't think anyone would stand up and say great! If an American killed one of our men, and Obama or Trump awarded them money! While we watched a Canadian come home in a coffin..that's my opinion, sorry..
    I get what your saying, but I really don't care if someone decides to take Khadr out..his sleazy lawyer won't be by his side all the time, besides he's got a nice lump sum coming as well
    Night..

  58. #258
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    No worries and no offence taken. I was playfully stating the stick it comment. Just giving the gears back and forth. Don't worry about the exchange. Sorry if I responded in kind. These can be contentious issues but the ability to be civil, and even apologize probably puts you beyond the curve here.
    Thankyou...

  59. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^I think everyone forgets he was a minor when all this happened. I know some guys on here were like Benjamin Button when they were born but what is law for one age group in not law for another. I'm sure when people look at Kadhr now, a grown man, some how they are visualizing him as looking like that at 9 to 15 years of age. Unless he is also another Benjamin Button like a couple of the guys posting. Can you even charge a minor with treason?. A lot of empty rhetoric being spouted by the media and most of us on social media.
    I think he knew what he was doing, there lays the rub, some don't think he did, others like me think so. If need be, apologize, what's with the 10 million though, that is BS in my book...Arar, Khadr, who is next? Canada is pretty stupid sometimes..jmho
    If you put it in another content.
    Say someone you knew took a minor to a country where there were no human rights. Let's say the minor decides to go 'clubbing'. The bouncers at the door don't care so let him in the club. Midnight the club closes and every one spills out to the street. A fight starts with 20-30 people and he somehow gets caught up in it. He gets arrested and thrown in jail. He swears he had nothing to do with it he just got caught up in the middle of it. They don't believe him. His guardian calls the Canadian Embassy and explains what happened, how he was caught up in a fight but did not kill anyone. The Canadian Embassy hums, haws but gives no indication of helping. Months later the kid is still in jail with no trial date in site. This goes on for months then years. Canadian Embassy cant get it's chit together and the kid is suffering all kinds of abuse at the hands of guards and other prisoners. The kid is a Canadian Citizen and yet his Canadian Human Rights are not even on the governments to do list. Then after years of languishing in a foreign jail some government hack approaches him and tells him if you say you killed that person out side the night club you can go home. The kid said but I did not kill anyone, I may have been carrying a knife but I did not kill anyone. This goes on for a couple more years and the kid is wasting away. He finally gives up and just wants out so he pleads guilty just to get home. He gets home and is put in a Canadian jail as that was part of the plea bargain. A lawyer finally picks up his cause and fights to get him out of jail. The lawyer goes to the Supreme Court and explains how a Canadian abroad did not have any representation from the very Government that was supposed to treat him fairly. He was held illegally, given no legal council, the government knew but did nothing. Now, one might say that his freedom is worth more than money but the Supreme Court thought that it was worth $10 million. That's why we should never chip away at any of our rights as who know, anyone of us or anyone we know might need them some day.
    The kid you talked about, is there a video of him having a practice run, or in the OK case, making bombs? Do you not think he new what a bomb would do at that age? I think he did Gemini. Do I fault his ugly family, and his even nastier father, yes and I have said I do. But the fact remains, the guy who lost an eye and lived, was a witness to this wasn't he? I'll chip away if my tax dollars go to him, all the time. I think its a spit in the face to all our men that are there, and I don't think anyone would stand up and say great! If an American killed one of our men, and Obama or Trump awarded them money! While we watched a Canadian come home in a coffin..that's my opinion, sorry..
    I get what your saying, but I really don't care if someone decides to take Khadr out..his sleazy lawyer won't be by his side all the time, besides he's got a nice lump sum coming as well
    Night..
    Nobody is denying the video of Kahdr wiring up devices. My grandma made components for bombs in WW11 but she never dropped one. The facts the Supreme Court found don't lie though. Another U S soldier said Kadhr could not have thrown the bomb as Kadhr was injured and under a pile of rubble. He also said that there was dust and mortar flying all over from both sides. It was never conclusively found just who's bomb killed the medic. There's a conflicting story right there. Another fact was that the original write up of the event never even mentioned Kadhr.s name. It was not until months later someone (no one knows who) added Kadhr's name to the report. The Supreme Court more or less found that because Kadhr was a prisoner of war (and a minor at that) the report was changed to basically fit some political agenda. The Supreme Court found he did not get the chance to prove his innocence or guilt in a timely manner. They also found that the Canadian Government knew he was being tortured and abused but did sweet F A about it. The facts don't lie inasmuch as some would like them to.
    I know we have great military people protecting us. They are trained to take the worst orders out there. They also realize that things happen in war that defy all human logic. I get it that some people are ticked he got a pay out but those same people would be just as ticked if any of their human rights were violated. Documents changed, stalling processes and the list goes on, all to make a political point. Politicians are not above the law, the Supreme Court just give them a 10 million dollar reminder.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  60. #260

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    Perhaps the Canadian gov't should use some of the fine legal minds on this forum and their expertise on international law to fight cases on their behalf and keep people like Khadr in jail.

  61. #261

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    ^Is that a fore or an against?
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  62. #262

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    Hahaha. The "Greater Middle East" is a term that was made up to cover for GWBs geographical faux pas when he & his administration kept on saying ridiculously incorrect things just like you.

    You also didn't use the term "greater".

    Good ol' moahunter.
    Last edited by noodle; 10-07-2017 at 08:45 AM.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  63. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Is that a fore or an against?
    I was being sarcastic at the number of people on this forum who think the government lawyers made a mistake or are wrong by:

    1. bringing Khadr back
    2. his rights were not violated based on our constitution
    3. his payment is too high

    Years of arguing legal cases on internet forums does not equal actual legal expertise.
    Last edited by faraz; 10-07-2017 at 10:38 AM.

  64. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Is that a fore or an against?
    I was being sarcastic at the number of people on this forum who think the government lawyers made a mistake or are wrong by:

    1. bringing Khadr back
    2. his rights were not violated based on our constitution
    3. his payment is too high

    Years of arguing legal cases on internet forums does not equal actual legal expertise.
    I laugh at anyone who thinks a court judgement in respect of the former Liberal government supposedly breaking charter rights by having CSIS interviewing somebody in a foreign jail, means the judge would have awarded 20m, let alone 10m. Thousands of children in Canada had their "charter rights" (if the charter had existed then) broken by years of sexual and physical abuse in residential schools - they didn't get $10m. There is no equity here, Trudeau was a coward to not take this all the way through the legal system.

  65. #265

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    Not to sure how much further through the legal system it could go. The Supreme Court made the ruling, the Federal Court of Canada stepped in.
    We can all say what price should we put on a life. A Judge in Utah awarded Sgt. Speer's wife and Special Forces Soldier Layne Morris $134 million for the lose of her husband and for Morris's partial loss of vision. Now does anyone think that every soldier that is killed or maimed in battle should be awarded those amounts?. One could say that each soldiers life is priceless and others will say they join the forces knowing the risks. Is $134 million enough for the loss of a husband and the partial loss of vision. Or is $500 million a fair amount of compensation. There could be a cause made that if the U S A or any other civilized country had to pay out huge sums to widowed spouses and injured soldiers maybe they would stay out of war torn countries and just let them fight it out themselves. No more billions of dollars spend on the military, no more broken hearts from deaths and injuries of soldiers. How would that work.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  66. #266

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    ^It was a settlement, this wasn't a legal judgment, its a gift to stop a court case.

  67. #267

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    ^Not sure what your trying to say here. Kadhr got a settlement. What higher court could Kadhr been taken to in Canada. What is higher than the Supreme Court.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  68. #268

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^he probably would have got a bigger offer if it was a Canadian soldier that had been killed, it very well could have been. At 15, I had a drivers license, was going to clubs, enjoyed smoking, that sort of stuff, but I knew not to throw grenades at soldiers.
    So when was the last time the Americans invaded New Zealand and you were the middle of a war zone. Instead of throwing a grenades you could instead throw the contents of your pants.
    Er, would this be before or after he had soiled them.................................
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  69. #269

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    We've already spent ~$5M in legal costs on Omar & come back with three Supreme Court judgements that all show the Canadian government was complicit in denying a Canadian citizen his Charter rights, but evidently not wasting more time, effort & money is a "gift".
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  70. #270

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    I want to deny moahunter his charter rights as a Canadian Citizen and see what he does.

  71. #271

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    I wouldn't count on the widow getting a thin Canadian dime of the money either, since unlike Utah, Ontario/Canada doesn't place a lot of stock in Guantanamo convictions.

    Hours before the government’s written apology and press conference, a lawyer representing the widow of U.S. Delta Force soldier Sgt. Christopher Speer and retired special forces soldier Layne Morris appeared in a Toronto courtroom to request an “urgent hearing” into their application.
    Speer was fatally wounded and Morris was injured, losing sight in one eye during the July 27, 2002, firefight in Afghanistan where Khadr was grievously wounded and taken into U.S. custody.
    Tabitha Speer, Morris, and their families are trying to get an Ontario Superior Court Justice to enforce a $134-million (U.S.) wrongful death claim that was awarded by default two years ago in Utah. In the interim, they want Khadr’s funds frozen.
    The case will continue Thursday, but if the settlement money has been placed in a trust and not in an account in Khadr’s name, any attempts to freeze the funds may be meaningless.
    Lawyer Nathan Whitling, who was not in court Friday but will represent Khadr in the matter, said he believes the Utah ruling will not be considered valid in Canada since Khadr’s guilt in based on a Guantanamo conviction.
    “The Supreme Court of Canada has already found that Guantanamo is contrary to our values and principles,” he said in a telephone interview Friday.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  72. #272

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    lots of mention of a video of khadr building the bombs but is this actually online anywhere?

    I laughed when i read gemini not deny khadr made bombs and compared it to grandma in ww2 haha! Gemini then disputes everything khadr may have done like its somehow deniable..

    Buildings bombs? Seems okay for gemini. If we want to argue our charter rights why wouldnt our govt charge him with treason for being actively involved in a war against our canadian soldiers? We cant pretend this didnt happen. We cant selectively enforce some laws while ignoring others. Thats how our charter rights/laws work. Thats why khadrs getting paid a settlement. But for some reason we choose to ignore undeniable facts that khadr was actively involved fighting against our canadian forces. Why not address this?

  73. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    We cant selectively enforce some laws while ignoring others. Thats how our charter rights/laws work. Thats why khadrs getting paid a settlement. But for some reason we choose to ignore undeniable facts that khadr was actively involved fighting against our canadian forces. Why not address this?
    Marcel actually shut down your entire line of thought in this post here.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  74. #274

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    which is a total garbage.. hes 15/16 which gets you charged as an adult in canada. You cant cry about someones rights being violated and then be okay when our laws arent upheld.

    Sounds like your typical online outrage by sjw's who havent thought things through.

    Again ill ask if anyones actually seen the video of khadr planting the ieds or building them or is that just spoken about like its true?

  75. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    lots of mention of a video of khadr building the bombs but is this actually online anywhere?

    I laughed when i read gemini not deny khadr made bombs and compared it to grandma in ww2 haha! Gemini then disputes everything khadr may have done like its somehow deniable..

    Buildings bombs? Seems okay for gemini. If we want to argue our charter rights why wouldnt our govt charge him with treason for being actively involved in a war against our canadian soldiers? We cant pretend this didnt happen. We cant selectively enforce some laws while ignoring others. Thats how our charter rights/laws work. Thats why khadrs getting paid a settlement. But for some reason we choose to ignore undeniable facts that khadr was actively involved fighting against our canadian forces. Why not address this?
    You know you may have shot out of your mums loins sucking on a beer and wearing Stanfields tighty whities but you would still have been classed as a minor, in fact you would have been classed as a baby. I don't think it's even possible for a minor to be charged with treason. For a start Kadhr would have had to be deemed mature enough to be treated as an adult. That did not happen because..........................let's hear it folks.....................he was denied a trial by our Government(s)(both Libs and Cons) which was his right as a Canadian Citizen. Hence the payout. If they government had of made it possible for him to have a trial within a reasonable time he would have been found guilt or not guilty then the matter would have been settled (unless either side did not like the verdict and may have took it further. And yes, it has to be out on the internet somewhere where their is a video of him making hand grenades. It's been proved he made them it was never proved he threw one on the day Speers died. Why was it not proved or refuted......................because he was not given due process of a trial.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  76. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    which is a total garbage.. hes 15/16 which gets you charged as an adult in canada. You cant cry about someones rights being violated and then be okay when our laws arent upheld.

    Sounds like your typical online outrage by sjw's who havent thought things through.

    Again ill ask if anyones actually seen the video of khadr planting the ieds or building them or is that just spoken about like its true?
    15/16 gets you charged as an adult for certain violent crimes if you are the driving force behind the crime. I've never heard of a youth being charged as an adult for being an accessory, or for a crime where the youth's "responsible" adult authority figures told them to do it.
    There can only be one.

  77. #277

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    ^It's all mute in Kadhr case. The federal government never even made the effort to take him to court let alone decide if he should be a minor charged as an adult.
    And let's say they did decide to charge him as an adult then ignored him in the same way for all those years. The outcome would have still been the same. His Human Rights still would have been violated.

    Actually in May 2015 the Supreme Court of Canada said Kadhr was to be treated as a minor.
    Last edited by Gemini; 10-07-2017 at 01:33 PM.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  78. #278

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    Interesting editorial here, from an actual prosecutor.

    For all the fury boiling up over news of his settlement, there's precious little insight or knowledge about the facts. As a former prosecutor,something has always troubled me about this case, and my deep unease hasn't abated with time.
    Any experienced trial lawyer would be troubled to open this file. With the exception of Khadr's "confession," wrung from a traumatized and severely wounded teenager under an abusive interrogation, the evidence against him was remarkably thin.
    Examined closely, it appears more consistent with his innocence than guilt.

    http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017...dr-isnt-guilty
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    which is a total garbage.. hes 15/16 which gets you charged as an adult in canada. You cant cry about someones rights being violated and then be okay when our laws arent upheld.

    Sounds like your typical online outrage by sjw's who havent thought things through.

    Again ill ask if anyones actually seen the video of khadr planting the ieds or building them or is that just spoken about like its true?
    The video is posted, and yes, I've seen it.

  80. #280

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    Let me repost that for those who missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Interesting editorial here, from an actual prosecutor.

    For all the fury boiling up over news of his settlement, there's precious little insight or knowledge about the facts. As a former prosecutor,something has always troubled me about this case, and my deep unease hasn't abated with time.
    Any experienced trial lawyer would be troubled to open this file. With the exception of Khadr's "confession," wrung from a traumatized and severely wounded teenager under an abusive interrogation, the evidence against him was remarkably thin.
    Examined closely, it appears more consistent with his innocence than guilt.
    http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017...dr-isnt-guilty
    Feel free to repost it as many times as necessary.
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  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    ...
    Again ill ask if anyones actually seen the video of khadr planting the ieds or building them or is that just spoken about like its true?
    You can view the video here
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EQjYowsBgc

  82. #282
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    Toronto Star

    Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale noted that the government had spent nearly $5 million in legal fees unsuccessfully fighting three Khadr cases all the way to the Supreme Court and this cost to taxpayers would continue with “virtually no chance of success,” and the possibility of an even larger payout.

    Conservative MP and lawyer Erin O’Toole, among others, has argued that a payout was not inevitable and government lawyers should have continued to fight the lawsuit.

    Treason: There were calls last week to retroactively charge Khadr, now 30, with treason or other crimes punishable in Canada.

    In 2008, Ottawa law students, under the supervision of Professor Craig Forcese, wrote a 153-page report given to a Senate Committee on Human Rights outlying the law. They later testified before a House of Commons committee. The report concluded: “There is good reason to believe that Omar could be prosecuted under Canadian law. Repatriation, therefore, is not tantamount to impunity.”

    Had Canada demanded Khadr’s repatriation after his capture, rather than deferring to the U.S., there was a greater possibility he could have been successfully prosecuted here. Now that is likely impossible due to protections against double jeopardy and the fact that Canada’s courts have denounced the illegality of Guantanamo.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  83. #283

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    71% of Canadians say Liberals were wrong to settle with Omar Khadr
    https://www.google.ca/amp/nationalpo...f9f586ca59/amp

  84. #284

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    Sorry but justice is not a democracy. Otherwise it would be a majority rule that is based upon the feelings of a mob.

    A mass frenzy of righteous indignation after the 9/11 attacks are how we got into this mess in the first place.

    Justice is based upon the rule of law and the supremacy of God as stated in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 11-07-2017 at 07:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    71% of Canadians say Liberals were wrong to settle with Omar Khadr
    https://www.google.ca/amp/nationalpo...f9f586ca59/amp
    No one polled me. I support the payment. Harper let Omar rot in a prison away from the US mainland where he could be tortured to confess.

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    71% of Canadians say Liberals were wrong to settle with Omar Khadr
    https://www.google.ca/amp/nationalpo...f9f586ca59/amp

    Good!CTV had a online poll and 80% didnt agree with his payout. !

  87. #287

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    Wow.

    It's hard to say this, but I hope all those people are ignorant of the supreme court decisions and how his rights were violated by the Canadian Government. People who just think: "that's really a lot of money" and don't go further than that.

    The alternative, that people are aware but don't think that he deserves those rights, is far more scary.
    There can only be one.

  88. #288

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Sorry but justice is not a democracy. Otherwise it would be a majority rule that is based upon the feelings of a mob.

    A mass frenzy of righteous indignation after the 9/11 attacks are how we got into this mess in the first place.

    Justice is based upon the rule of law and the supremacy of God as stated in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
    In politics... the people are always right.

  89. #289

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    ^ Maybe in Politics, but in Justice that's just not true.

    She wears a blindfold for a reason.
    There can only be one.

  90. #290

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    It is amazing how the neocons on this thread are all about justice yet haven't a clue what it means.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  91. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Wow.

    It's hard to say this, but I hope all those people are ignorant of the supreme court decisions and how his rights were violated by the Canadian Government. People who just think: "that's really a lot of money" and don't go further than that.

    The alternative, that people are aware but don't think that he deserves those rights, is far more scary.
    The latter is what it is. A lot of people, perhaps most, have forgotten that the price occasionally paid by having a just system of law is a pittance compared to not having it. I think its a kind of nonchalance that creeps in. Where people have entirely taken justice for granted and rant and rail over every decision they do not agree with rather than for a moment consider what life would be like without a just and uniform system of law. To this end people vote this way as well. I theorize that they kind of tabulate all these things they disagreed with for whatever inane reason and vote in the next bunch as reactionary voting pattern. To that end, and as commonly stated, we get the governance we deserve.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  92. #292

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    Funny how someone can have both these viewpoints.

    "I'm against Canada changing to Sharia Law"

    "A Canadian citizen doesn't deserve due process and a fair trial and should be stoned to death"

  93. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Sorry but justice is not a democracy. Otherwise it would be a majority rule that is based upon the feelings of a mob.

    A mass frenzy of righteous indignation after the 9/11 attacks are how we got into this mess in the first place.

    Justice is based upon the rule of law and the supremacy of God as stated in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
    In politics... the people are always right.
    No! They are not always right. That is why we have a Constitution and a Charter. To protect the rights of the individual against the mob. Your concept of justice is completely without grounds. No wonder Harper lost nearly every case before the Supreme Court.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  94. #294

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    I would word it a bit differently. Theres posters in this thread that said they would fight, or go to war for our liberty, our system of justice, our society, but oddly refuse to accept it or have allegiance to it anytime said liberty isn't in tacit agreement with them.

    For sure there is a lot of inconsistency. But that's pretty much the sum of reactionary thought.

    So using this example, people;

    1)Want a system of law that provides differential protection for children and youth and that acknowledges informed intent and decision making is not yet fully realized by pre adults.

    2) Want a system of law that protects Canadians at home and abroad from malicious acts or prosecution.

    3) Want a system that protects Canadians through such things as lobbying for a return to Canadian soil to be served by our system of law and justice.

    But when they disagree the above is all null and void, they don't want that. In essence then, they don't want these legal protections afforded to Canadian citizens. Except if anything ever happened to them or a loved one..
    Last edited by Replacement; 11-07-2017 at 10:00 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  95. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Sorry but justice is not a democracy. Otherwise it would be a majority rule that is based upon the feelings of a mob.

    A mass frenzy of righteous indignation after the 9/11 attacks are how we got into this mess in the first place.

    Justice is based upon the rule of law and the supremacy of God as stated in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
    In politics... the people are always right.
    Mob rule is not about being right. Its what your argument reduces to.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  96. #296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Sorry but justice is not a democracy. Otherwise it would be a majority rule that is based upon the feelings of a mob.

    A mass frenzy of righteous indignation after the 9/11 attacks are how we got into this mess in the first place.

    Justice is based upon the rule of law and the supremacy of God as stated in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
    In politics... the people are always right.
    No! They are not always right. That is why we have a Constitution and a Charter. To protect the rights of the individual against the mob. Your concept of justice is completely without grounds. No wonder Harper lost nearly every case before the Supreme Court.
    Your confusing politics with our Justice system . Paying him out when they didn't have to looks bad. ..politically

  97. #297

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    You are mixing up 'cause' and 'effect'.

    That is why Justice and Politics are separated. Something that Bush, Harper, Trump and champking, fail to grasp.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 11-07-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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  98. #298

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    We can't just go around making people multi-millionaires every time a charter right is supposedly broken. This is an absolutely awful precedent - Canadians get it, and Trudeau is going to pay the price, the anger over this isn't going to go away, he has disillusioned center voters - you can't do that and win an election.

  99. #299

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    Justice is not to be used as a tool to win elections.


    You still did not respond to my offer to you, to go to Afghanistan and be tortured and imprisoned for a decade without a fair trial. I have 10 million waiting for you when you get back.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  100. #300

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    "Supposedly"

    Really?

    Three Supreme Court judgements say definitively, but moahunter (the living embodiment of how immigrants from anywhere, including English-speaking Commonwealth countries can harbor un-Canadian morals, beliefs & attitudes) somehow thinks that's not enough proof that the Canadian government made a huge mistake & needs to be punished accordingly.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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